Week 11 CBS Sports Blogpoll Draft Ballot... and Daily Notes
by Bud Elliott on Nov 10, 2008 11:50 AM EST
in FSU Football
37 comments
Where did I put FSU? I need your help with the revisions. Leave your thoughts...
This is not a power poll. I don't attempt to rank teams based on how good I think they are. I only rank teams based on their resume. The poll is designed to be dynamic. I try to start from scratch every week. I do attempt to reward teams for "quality losses", while punishing them for bad performances. I do not give excessive credit for stomping horrible teams. As always, I want your help. Keep in mind though that I don't want "team X is way better than team Y." I do want "team A has a better resume than team B, you should make the change." Power poll rankings are dumb.
The teams ranked 3, 23, & 25 all lost to lesser ranked or unranked foes this past weekend. Several others had scares How are those power polls working for them? I do not consult major polls when doing this. Their record of futility is clear. Let the teams earn their rankings on the field. I try to remove as much subjectivity as possible. The AP Poll and it's counterparts are silly. Ranking teams based on who you think is good is not going to work. We don't know how great teams truly are until they play the games on the field. I rank what happens on the field. This system is not perfect. I like to reward playing well against good teams, win or lose, and punish losing to poor teams more harshly than I reward defeating poor teams.
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| Rank | Team | S.O.S.... will update when available |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Texas Tech | |
| 2 | Alabama | |
| 3 | Texas | |
| 4 | Florida | |
| 5 | Southern Cal | |
| 6 | Oklahoma | |
| 7 | Oklahoma State | |
| 8 | North Carolina | |
| 9 | Georgia | |
| 10 | Penn State | |
| 11 | Missouri | |
| 12 | South Carolina | |
| 13 | Ohio State | |
| 14 | California | |
| 15 | Michigan State | |
| 16 | Oregon State | |
| 17 | Wake Forest | |
| 18 | Georgia Tech | |
| 19 | Pittsburgh | |
| 20 | Florida State | |
| 21 | Miami (Florida) | |
| 22 | Mississippi | |
| 23 | Virginia Tech | |
| 24 | Arizona | |
| 25 | Cincinnati | |
Themes:
Reward Grinders. I like to reward those who play difficult schedules. Those mid-majors do not have to prepare for difficult games on a weekly basis, and I take that into account. So, with that said...Goodbye Mid Majors. After finally getting a chance to watch these guys, I realized that they are not at the level of ranked teams from major conferences. Additionally, their schedule strengths were incredibly inflated because they had all played each other, who were also ranked highly. These teams are not talented. They are able to focus on their 1 game of the year against a big-6 conference team for several weeks. The BCS team views them as a schedule break. Letdown city. I am really against power-polling, but none of these teams deserve to play in a BCS game and I am no longer rewarding teams in any way for simply not losing to the likes of Eastern Illinois and Nevada.
FSU: 5-2 (I do not count the 1-AA Games) finally makes it in. I said that we had a chance to move up a bunch and we are. Another win will ensure another move up next week.
Rankings by Conference
B 12: 5 (4 in top 7)
SEC: 5 (2 in the top 4)
ACC: 6, only 1 in the top 17
Pac 10: 4 (1 in top 14)
Big 10: 3 (1 in top 10)
MWest: 0... play a schedule, please. Thursday Night miracles against Oregon State at home should not be your super bowl.
WAC:0
Big East: 2... none in top 15
Teams that the AP and Coaches ranked that I did not.
8. Utah 10-0 1,157 9. Boise State 9-0 1,11010. Ball State 9-0 67715. TCU 9-2 62316. Brigham Young 9-1 60217. 19. LSU 6-3 55220. 25. Tulsa
Complete lack of quality wins mixed with poor scheduling... No way Jose.
Instead, I had these squads:
Miami
Wake
Ole Miss
VaTech
Arizona
California
GTech (outgained UNC for most of the game)
What do these have in common? Tough scheduling, and playing well within that schedule win or lose.
This is just the DRAFT, with your help, I will make changes and resubmit by Wed. Remember to help in the context of resume ranking. Let's talk about a team's resume.
Daily Notes
ACCMarcus has a great look at the ACC as a conference.
"Someone had to pay for that loss last week and it may as well be Clemson," defensive tackle Budd Thacker said. "As far as I'm concerned, they didn't pay enough, so we've got a lot more paying off to do. Boston College is about to pay for it next." Andrew Carter has a nice look at the 'Noles' Bowl Scene
Q: A lot of times when you have young linemen, people assume that they’ll be better at pass-blocking because they don’t have to be so physically strong. But you guys are running the ball so well. How are you doing that?
A: Quickness. It’s Trickett’s trademark. He wants to jump you before you can jump him. He’s gonna get on you real quick. It’s like a boxer that can jab good. Maybe doesn’t have the big hit, but can keep you off of him all day jabbing. Now, pass-blocking is a little bit different, because they’ll bull-rush you. If I’m going to pass-block him, I’ve got to stand right in front of him. And if he’s big and strong, he can just bull-rush me. He doesn’t have to worry about my quickness. So we’ve improved in that area, but that’s where we’ve gotten hurt some – people pushing us back into the quarterback. Ira Schoeffel has a huge Q&A with Bodwen on Yahoo.com
ACCSports.com's Bob Thomas has a HUGE Q&A with Ann Bowden... she is um, really, really candid.: I think coaches are foolish to go into a new job and get into a big home. Chuck Amato will tell you that. He built a very expensive, big home at N.C. State. He’s sitting on it right now; with the market like it is, he can’t get rid of it. I don’t think he wants to, because this situation is so unsettled right here. When Bobby retires, who knows? You know Jimbo’s going to take over the daily coaching position, but who knows whether Chuck’s job will be secure? Assistant coaches just don’t know who Jimbo will retain or who he wants. You know, coaching is a very fragile profession.
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3 Losses:
@ UF by 23 (kept it much closer than that throughout most)
UNC by 1 (outplayed UNC)
FSU by 2 (though FSU definitely played better than them)
Their entry is more on the strength of consitently hanging with people and playing well.
They also killed a decent Duke team, beat UVA in Charlottesville, beat Wake and blasted Texas A&M in College Station.
Utah needs to be in after beating TCU
Not saying as high as 8, but definitely top 20.
Take out one of the ACC teams.
How do we know TCU is any good?
They throttled BYU, who has also played um, Nobody?
Not trying to be mean, but rather trying to highlight the ridiculousness of these garbage conferences.
You have Oregon State ranked #16
A team Utah beat on October 2. Since Utah is undefeated, can you logically argue that Utah should be ranked lower than a team they beat?
With Oregon State's resume, I believe I can.
I did drop Oregon State some in the final poll.
Utah barely squeaked by Oregon State, at home, on a Thursday night.
Using the transitive property in football leads to a huge mess. For instance, Miami beat Wake who beat Ole Miss who beat Florida.
This isn’t a power poll, it is resume ranking, and Utah’s resume doesn’t measure up to the top 25 teams in the nation.
Utah's Resume is Better than a number of teams you have ranked
Utah has victories over TCU (9-2), Air Force (8-2), and Oregon State (6-3). That makes their resume better than a number of teams you have ranked.
For example, I list all of the following teams’ victories over teams with winning records:
Missouri – victories over Nevada (5-4), Buffalo (5-4), and Nebraska (6-4)
South Carolina – victories over Kentucky (6-4), Mississippi (5-4), and FCS team Wofford (7-2)
California – victories over Michigan State (9-2) and Oregon (7-3)
Michigan State – victories over Notre Dame (5-4), Iowa (6-4), and Northwestern (7-3)
All four of these teams I mentioned have multiple losses, which should detract from a team’s resume. By your resume ranking, Utah belongs in the 11-15 range in your poll.
You do not say where Oregon State ended up in your final ballot, but their resume is not as strong as Utah’s resume. Their only victory over a team with a winning record is against USC (8-1).
Finally, I am not sure why you thought the fact that Utah played Oregon State on a Thursday somehow detracts from their victory. If anything, it meant OSU has more time to prepare. OSU played the previous Thursday while Utah played the previous Saturday. OSU had an extra two days to prepare for Utah.
South Carolina
is WAY too high. Heres why…..
While there schedule sounds like they are ‘grinding’ they really aren’t. They lost to the three ‘good’ teams they have played (given they have played them close). However, there opponents record is …………………….. 23 – 34 (not including Wofford). Thats pretty bad. The only two teams they beat with a winning record (other than Wofford) are Kentucky and Ole Miss.
Now……where to put them……
17th. I would put Utah in the top 17 and push everyone else forward. Michigan St. and Oregon St (as much as I hate to say it) have better resumes.
Good job with the rest of it though. I may put OU over USC, but thats debatable either way. I think you are right with FSU. I am a diehard, but our resume is garbage. It’s not going to get a ton better either unless we beat UF (BIG IF).
Thanks man.
plus you
dropped LSU and USC ( the east coast one) lost to them. While I agree with kicking LSU out, Why is USC ranked so high still?
I actually never ranked LSU, but...
I will drop SC down a notch or two, as their Vandy loss looks worse.
It's far more
than just their loss to Vandy. Who have they beaten? I know a lot of FSU fans have a bias against the SEC but they are top to bottom a FAR better conference than the PAC-10. I don’t understand why you don’t get this.
Um...
What are you arguing with this? is this anti south Carolina, or Anti- Southern Cal?
I was talking about South Carolina’s loss against Vanderbilt and you brought up the Pac 10.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 10, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Missouri
Personally I don’t see how they are ranked so high in any poll. They have three wins over ranked teams, with those teams being 5-4 Nevada, 5-4 Buffalo, and 6-4 Nebraska. That makes one decent win. They lost to every good team they faced, losing to an overrated Ok. St. team and getting destroyed by Texas. Oh, and they beat 3-7 Baylor by three points. It is beyond me how Missouri has continued to have such an inflated ranking.
Illinois scored 42 points on 532 yards of offense against Missouri. Illinois broke Wisconsin’s four game losing streak. Illinois beat La. Lafayette 20-17. Illinois is not good.
I agree Illinois is not a good team, I was just saying that Missou did beat them by more than 10 I believe.
Maybe I will drop them more. They have disappointed.
Good take Mongo.
As someone who lives in Chicago can tell you
The Illini reek of “year-after syndrome.” They’ve got talent, they just aren’t playing well.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Nov 10, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
You are beyond stupid
That’s all that needs to be said. I’d only further embarrass you by punching 8,433,013 holes in the weakness of your arguments for your fraud of a ballot
"Attempt to use logic" is one of your blog rules
You say the non BCS play a weaker schedule and then your own analysis admits FSU has played 2 1AA teams, ahem one more than Utah (and the one Utah played is going to be ranked for the upcoming playoffs). Oregon State wins out they win the PAC 10, you derided this win.
You must be a shining grad from FSU. Note to self, never hire an FSU grad without a drug test first.
“FSU: 5-2 (I do not count the 1-AA Games) finally makes it in.” LOL tough schedule, keep playing pansies.
FSU's 7 1A games are much tougher than Utah's 8.
FSU: 39th in schedule strength.
UTAH: 104th.
I do credit your win over Oregon State, however, I punish Utah’s ridiculously cake schedule throughout the rest of the season. You can’t seriously expect credit for wins over Michigan, UNLV, Air Force, Weber State, Colorado State, or New Mexico, can you? Utah would be no better than 5-4 in the ACC facing the Schedule of FSU. I doubt they’d finish with a winning record in any major conference outside the Big East (a conference I punish in a similar fashion).
Utah, TCU, Boise, Ball State, and BYU all have a serious lack of talent when compared to most other top 25 teams. Your players are simply not as good. Attrition does matter and Utah is able to focus on their one big game of the year against a BCS school. I’m not the only one with this view.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Come on, Kahuna!
Logic says that being in a BC$ conference makes you and everyone you play better than all the little guys. It is the single best system around for fans with little or no knowledge of college football to build up their paper tiger teams. If we wanted to base our judgments on what teams did on the field we wouldn’t need the BC$ at all! Never mind that by any objective system out there the Mountain West is right around the level of the ACC and the Big East. BC$ logic dictates that objective measurements based upon on-field performance are irrelevant!
The dumbest kid (by far) in my first year of law school was an FSU grad. He tried hard, but his inferior undergrad education led to his dismissal after just one year. I will take extra pleasure this year when watching FSU again earn its title of UMB (Urban Meyer’s Bitch)
Ah, since one FSU grad is dumb, all must be dumb. Interesting.
UMB is cute. Which wife came up with that?
You show your lack of knowledge when by equating the Big East with the ACC.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 14, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Great intelligence
When you can’t win with logic, resort to religious bigotry.
Keep your bigotry to yourself.
I didn't say all FSU grads are dumb, just you and the guy from school.
Thanks for the bigoted response. I agree the ACC is better than the Big East and the MWC, but if you think the disparity is big enough to keep teams like Utah, BYU and TCU out of the top 25 all together you are just plain wrong.
the Mountain West is right around the level of the ACC and the Big East.
You shouldn’t deny something that is 3 posts above the denial.
The ACC can be better than the MWC and Big East
and still be close to them in terms of quality, there is no contradiction at all there.
Better run and hide! I think I hear Urban coming!
this blog has become infested
with obnoxious Utah trolls. There must be a bulletin somewhere informing Ute fans to go harass Tomahawknation.
There is.
If they keep it confined to this thread, I am fine with it. They need to understand that I am dealing with brawlgate right now though, and this thread comes second.
If they start bringing nonsense into the other threads, I’ll zap them.
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