Jimbo: Clean House. Seriously. (Post your post game reactions)

by FSUncensored on Nov 15, 2008 11:48 PM EST in Football Comment 160 comments

Apparently, the NCAA eliminated the rule that required all offenses to line up in a balanced I-formation. Apparently, it's a good idea to show your blitz way before the snap. Apparently you should play outside technique on 3rd and 6 while bringing an all-out blitz into a 7 (or 8!) man protection. Apparently we can't expect our award winning defensive coordinator to craft an excellent defense out of 5 seniors and 6 juniors, 5 of which will unquestionably play in the NFL. Apparently it is too much to ask to of our defense to hold one of the worst offenses in an offensively challenged conference to even an average performance. At home. In your homecoming game. Apparently.

Don't think we are predictable and stale on defense? "He [Crane] kind of knew where he was going before each play." _Tony Carter

There should be little doubt that the suspensions impacted this team. Reenacting West Side Story in the student union is stupid, thuggish behavior and it needs to be left at home. It was a distraction to the fans all week. It was certainly a distraction to the players-- specifically the players who were in the melee but not suspended.

The suspensions, however, are not where this game was lost. FSU's offensive line played like an offensive line made up of 3 freshman and 2 sophomores is expected to play-- for the first time in a while. We're surprised because we've been spoiled with shockingly decent offensive line play for much of the year. They got dominated tonight (even Rodney Hudson). "This was the first time all year we got whipped up front."_ Bowden.

We needed Mickey to take his group of guys, a group loaded with talent, and have them play good football. Instead, they laid an egg. Dominated in the middle of the defensive line and unable to defend a simple zone read. Over, and over, and over again.

The 3 picks? They hurt as well. The pick-6 was a killer, but the other two? I don't expect to convert 3rd and 23 and the ball ended up at the 19. Jimbo didn't either: "It was 3rd and 25. We tried to hit something down the middle and if we didn't it was like a punt, ya know?"_Jimbo The other? "Well, that guy's gotta make a play. Christian needs to put the ball a little more outside, but heck we had a guy right in his face with an 8 man protection! Even if Greg catches that, it's coming back cause the holding call even with the 8 man protection. [Ed Note: That means blocking with 8 men, a huge number of blockers. You shouldn't have blocking issues when you block with 8 guys.]" _Jimbo. Greg Carr is disgustingly inconsistent. That is an automatic read and throw and Carr must realize that he must knock it down if he can't catch the ball. Ponder didn't play well, but he shouldn't have been asked to answer score after score in a game of these circumstances. I do think we were limited in what we could run.

This team is reeling. The administration must do whatever it can to keep Fisher. If that means firing Mickey Andrews, Jody Allen, and Chuck Amato, then it needs to be done. If that means getting rid of our head coach who looked pathetic on national television proclaiming "everyone has problems", then do it. This is a fractured leadership dynamic and it is killing Florida State. Jimbo should leave if he is not given the reigns for 2009-- nothing less. Seminole Nation must do whatever it takes to end this joke. When is enough, enough? Leadership starts at the top. Fans should not support a product that is less than whole. We might as well print tickets to the 2009 Bowden and Co. Clown Show if the administration and the boosters don't finally pull the plug. We can no longer afford to take a 0 at the head coaching spot. We cannot afford to start over. If Jimbo is our guy (and right now, we won't do better), show it. Axe Bobby. Axe Mickey. Axe Jodey. Axe Chuck. We're not getting back to the elite dragging Bobby and Mickey around. We cannot afford to start over.

Update: I just thought about how bad our defense will be next year when 7 starters leave and the same coaching group is here. At least we know that they'll only have 1 more year to embarass Seminole Nation. ;)

I'll post the best of the user's react tomorrow.

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Defensively...

I just can’t get over the penalties, the missed tackles, the missed fumble recovery, the lackluster attempts at pressure…

But the offensive playcalling wasn’t perfect, either. The OL was meh. Ponder was evidently throwing at 14’ receivers the entire game.

The bright spot? Graham Gano. I want to have his babies.

True story.

by geauxnoles on Nov 15, 2008 11:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Neither unit played well, but...

One unit was expected to.

5 Seniors. 6 Juniors. NO significant injuries through the entire season! NFL talent in each position group. Facing a terrible offense.

The PI penalties are more of a scheme and teaching issue than an individual player issue. The missed tackles were ridiculous.

The Offense? Forget the missing guys; our offensive line got worked. Ponder had to fend off McMahon as he was thrown at his feet. There is a trust issue there between Ponder and his wideouts, no doubt. We were limited in what we could do— yet put up 17 points.

BC ran 74 plays! That is 20% more than the National average of 62. FSU? 56.

Bobby needs to be out. He is a net negative for this program. He stays around because he is afraid of dying soon after his retirement.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bowden

Bowden deserves more respect than that pitiful “He stays around because he is afraid of dying soon after his retirment” tantrum. You wouldn’t have much of a blog if it wasn’t for Bobby Bowden—just saying, as long as we’re having a “no-holds-barred” conversation here.

I have grown to love this site in a mere couple of months, but that was ridiculous.

That said, I think the effects of the “nepotism” era are still lingering which is BB fault no doubt, but I see a lot of improvement from this offense even though we might end up with the same record. This year I actually have confidence that we can score to make the game interesting when we need to, but Ponder is young and threw two interceptions where we could have had 3 points or 7 (obvously one went for 7 the other way! TIE BALLGAME IF NOT) and the OL can get manhandled by a good DL (big suprise there) and those two things combined is what did us in assuming our defense played the same.

On the flip side, if the defense had really stepped up, we probably would have won that game as well, (obviously if we play better we will win, but stay with me) so what I think we’re looking at is a team that is ranked right where they need to be until we have corners who can cover without fouling. Mickey isn’t making the necessary adjustments, the defensive and kick coverage side of the ball seems to be the only “stagnant” part of our team aside from perhaps the linebackers (if the new talent fulfills potential). The only thing that has made our defense look better this year is the sheer athletic ability of Everett Brown and the flashes of talent from the other DE’s… which obviously, to me at least, Jodey Allen did nothing to create.

by FSUvaFan on Nov 16, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A sensible, reasoned reply

I’ll agree that I was harsh on BB. I do believe that some young coach would have transformed this program into what it is (or close) if Bowden had not shown up. Too much talent in this state for that not to have happened.

Want to know why we can’t sell out Doak? The young alumni have been poisoned by the lack of enthusiasm that emanated from this program. It was if you could feel the poor management going on. I guess you had to have been in the classes of ‘05-’08

You offensive observations seem spot on. I struggle to find anything that I disagree with. I do see major improvement from the offense. I believe in measuring results relative to talent. Jimbo is severely handcuffed by an offensive line that has been dominated in pass protection in every conference game this year. This was only the 3rd time this year that the running game got shut down. I expect that with time, this offensive line will go from below average to very good. I’ll discuss the 3 picks later on. The 1st is unquestionably on Ponder; bead read. The 2nd though, looks to be a player trying to pickup a 3rd and 23. They did get the ball on the 19. I was hoping we would run a draw or screen there to get into field goal position (ball was at the 46). the 3rd is ridiculous. It wasn’t a well or horribly thrown ball. It was slightly below average and Carr needs to man up and take care of business. He played pretty bad last night. i expect Fortson to eclipse Carr’s production.

A hallmark of our offensive line has been the ability to out-condition the opposition. With only 56 plays and 22 minutes of possession time, that was not happening. I think you’re right about the corners, but I also think that they are really poorly coached. These guys have more talent than Alabama’s secondary (I use them because I’m here and I see them play), yet they play much worse. Mickey is apparently the DB’s coach. That’s on him. The entire defensive coaching staff is doing a poor job molding players. Again, evaluating on the “performance v. ability” scale, the defensive coaches are failing miserably. Our corners could cover, but they do not appear to play with good technique.

Can someone get us a list of all the DB’s we recruited in the last 5 years so i can show the failures we’ve had in developing defensive backs?

Again, I am glad you signed up and decided to contribute. You should never be afraid to share your thoughts here.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I agree whole heartedly that the defensive coaching staff is not molding players well. Again, your blog is great and a breath of fresh air from Warchant.

I didn’t see any screens either, maybe the coaches had to change their playcalling a lot because Surrency wasn’t there to provide good blocks and that left Parker having to produce and not being able to block either. I am assuming that is why Taiwan was able to contribute so much on the perimeter. I had never seen Carr doing a great job blocking.

Anyway, keep up the good work and thanks for listening.

by FSUvaFan on Nov 17, 2008 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Changing the gameplan

I thought there were 2 or 3 more opportunities to run the bubble, but in doing so, we have to realize what our bubble series entails. (I’m sure YOU know this, but some newer readers might not).

Our bubble consists of run action to the single receiver side, and a throw to the strong side. Some coaches call this a set, a concept, or a series. Basically, we run the zone play of this (give or keep), throw the bubble off this, and run the fake zone fake bubble qb keep. If BC doesn’t buy the zone play the series is dead. BC just destroyed our OLine and BC stopped our run game with only 7 men. They were ready to take a bubble back for 6. Your point on the wideout blocking is accurate, but in this case it might be gravy.

I will say that a lot of folks complain about Warchant here, but I did enjoy my time there (before they 86’d me). If you can learn to ignore the trash, some of the discussion is good. There’s a place for everyone in the Seminole mediasphere.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive Backs

2004
Who we signed:
Tony Carter, JR Bryant, Trevor Ford, Joe Manning, Darius McClure, Jonathan Warren, Kenny Ingram

Who we missed (People in this class that played DB, not necessarily who we had legitimate shots at):
Craig Steltz, Terrail Lambert, Tony Joiner, Anthony Reddick

2005
Who we signed:
Jamie Robinson, Michael Ray Garvin, Clarence Ward, Korey Mangum

Who we missed:
Demetric Morley, Chris Chancellor, Kenny Phillips, Randy Phillips
Again, I doubt we could have gotten any of these “misses” but they were out there to be had.

2006
Who we signed:
Ochuko Jenije, Patrick Robinson, Anthony Leon, Toddrick Verdell, Mister Alexander, Myron Rolle

Who we missed:
Ryan Hill, DeAndre McDaniel, AJ Wallace (Although I’m not sure how he’s done at PSU)
Hill and McDaniel should have been ours, we can’t let talented players out of Tallahassee. Especially when they choose schools we play every year.

2007
Who we signed:
Dionte Allen, Bernard Brinson

Who we missed:
Chad Jones, Major Wright, Morgan Burnett
If I recall, Jimbo had a role in the Jones recruitment but there were definite concerns about his baseball career. The other two were guys were guys we had no chance with, but you could argue we should have.

2008
Who we signed:
Travis Arnold, Terrance Parks, AJ Alexander, Ed Imeokparia

Who we missed (it’s still early on these guys, so I’ll go by their recruiting reputation):
Patrick Johnson, TJ Bryant, Ramon Buchanan, CJ Holton, Robert Lester, Will Hill, Burton Scott, Mark Barron
Not everybody wants to go to Florida State, so some of these misses we never had a chance with anyway. It remains to be seen if Holton’s depature will hurt us given his grade issues. Bryant definitely hurts if only because he is from Lincoln. Johnson (or whatever he goes by now) has made a few plays for LSU.

The pattern I notice is that until 2006, our biggest problems were attrition (non-qualifyers, transfers, etc) and moving our safety prospects to linebacker. Begining in 2007, we started to have clear recruiting issues. Brinson didn’t qualify so the only DB for that class was Allen who hasn’t seen the field yet anywhere but on special teams.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

I’d add something here, but I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Pre-2006: good recruiting, poor player development.
2007 and beyond: poor recruiting (possibly as a result of recruits seeing our complete lack of player development).

A few other notes: some have said that Brinson robbed an old lady in her mobile home. Does anyone else remember this? I know he is in JUCO now. This definitely came up with a recruit of ours, and I know he is still under our consideration, but I think we should find out if this did occur.

I also think we ran into a scheme problem over the last few years. I’m not in favor of using small DT’s and small linebackers. If you have smallish dt’s, you should use bigger linebackers, as your DT’s are penetrations and not space eating, your backers must be able to shed blocks. I think this current crew will help some. Nigel and CJ can both play at 235+, and I think Vince can get up there as well. I have serious personal concerns about Nigel Carr staying eligible in the long term, but that is a discussion for another day and we can’t expect to hit on every linebacker.

I hope Jimbo’s new guy switches to the 3-4. I’d love to see Demonte and McDaniel play ends in a 3-4 with Moses a nose at 310. In essence, it’s a speed 3-4. Unqiue, eh?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Recruiting Misses

I’ve only been following recruiting since about 2003, but the biggest misses I think we’ve had in that time period have been Demario Pressley, Marvin Austin, and Percy Harvin. Either of those two tackles could have transformed our defense over the past few years and Harvin is just an incredible athlete.

Andre Smith and Julio Jones would have been nice too, but I honestly do not think we should ever expect to get a top-level player out of the state of Alabama, especially not now. Besides, would RT have made Andre Smith lose 50 pounds?

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Recruiting Misses

Callahan Bright was a huge miss as well.

I am so glad that O’Dell is back to recruiting well. He needs to keep McAllister at all costs. We need better DT play, though I do love Moses McCray

An NFL team will ask Andre to lose 10-15lbs.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Callahan

I didn’t know how to classify him, because he did commit to us.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Im there with you

I like the Idea of getting 2 big strong guys as LB but I also like having a S change from S to LB on the week side or slot side. It gives you the speed you need agenst the spreed off. Also I think more nickle would be nice, but to do that you have to get some beef on the D line. I like the top recrut we are getting next year but the rest of the class Jacobbi McDaniel I see getting some playing time if he dont red shirt. We are also getting x2 DE that are light Im betting they will try to make them into OLB because of there size both are 6’3 and about 225lb. But with the depth at LB and DE I would say they will redshirt. We need to be much more Physical and in the off season hit the waight room and put some pounds on the O and D lines.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Recruited

2006
Myron Rolle S
Anthony Leon S
Mister Alexander S
Patrick Robinson CB
Ochuku Jenije CB

2007
Dionte Allen CB
Bernard Brinson S

2008
Terrance Parks CB
Travis Arnold S

2009 verbal commits
Gerald Demps S
Jajuan Harley S
Justin Bright S

As of right now.
AJ Alexander CB Fr.
Dionte Allen CB Fr.
Terrance Parks CB Fr.
Ochucko Jenije CB So.
Korey Mangum CB Jr.
Patrick Robinson CB Jr
Michael Ray Garvin CB Sr.
Tony Carter CB Sr.
Rod Roberts CB Sr.

Ed Imeokparia S Fr.
Nick Moody S Fr.
Anthony Leon S So.
Jamie Robinson S Jr.
Myron Rolle S Jr.
Jeff Tacetta S Sr.
Kenny Ingram S Sr.
Roosevelt Lawson S Sr.
Darius McClure S Sr.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Des

responded above.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Andrews, yes.

Bowden, no.

I saw some nice trickeration tonight.

But more importantly, as my friend Brandon pointed out, Ganoing is half the battle.

by geauxnoles on Nov 16, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bowden, yes.

Bowden does nothing. He is a waste of a money. His iconic status is lost at this point in recruiting and he is not winning enough games to warrant his million dollar salary. If he left it would free up space for a coach who is actually more inolved.

by Jaguar on Nov 16, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is how I feel. Mickey’s D didn’t play up to par this evening, but how many times over the past few years have we questioned BB’s job vs. Mickey’s? I am not saying Mickey is the answer and is immune. I am merely saying that if I had to pick one to go, I would let go of BB.

by thirdcoastnole on Nov 16, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We're not getting to an elite level with EITHER. Not only has this car run out of gas, but it has been taken to the chop shop, rusted out, and is now growing weeds in the back window.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts

1. Mickey is old-fashioned. But even for that he hasn’t been very good. GT’s offense is about as old school as you can get and we remember what happened there.

2.Jody Allen is stealing money. He is literally thieving thousands of dollars from the boosters and the taxpayers. Someone should report this because the state of Florida is facing a budget deficit this year. Every little bit counts.

3. At the time, I wanted us to hire Chris Hatcher from VSU. I thought we would be able to still get Dawsey and keep Kevin Steele. I felt like our team would be better off with HC Steele and Hatcher leading the offense. Now, looking back, there’s no way our offense would be growing this well and we definitely wouldn’t have Trickett, but I still wonder what might have happened if Steele were deemed Head-Coach-In-Waiting-until-Bobby-Bowden-dies-or-we-force-him-out-cuz-we’re-tired-of-waiting-till-he-retires.

4. Jody Allen just made enough money in the time it took me to type this post to buy 3 Chick-Fil-A 12 nugget combos.

5. Mickey apparently cannot coach his team to know the difference between playing aggressively and playing stupidly.

6. Since I had to think for awhile before my fifth idea, Jody Allen can now up-size his value meals.

The sad thing is, I really have no idea who is out there who we legitimately have a chance with to get the ship righted. Maybe Trickett can bring somebody over from his WVU days, but I don’t want to run the 3-3-5.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 12:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll think about your last thought over the weekend.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a name.

Reggie Herring.

Former Nole. Former defensive coordinator at a high-level program. Current NFL assistant for just about the highest profile team you can get.

Do we have the kind of money to get him here and would we want him?

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If we lose Jimbo and keep Bobby I'll close down TNation

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll jump off my apartment building

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Herring but he is all press-man.

That’s a skill, not an entire defensive philosophy in this day and age.’

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We could get Colzie back for the DBs

But the 0-10 West Georgia record isn’t very shiny.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What happens though

If we don’t fumble against G Tech and win this game in bizarre fashion. I know you’ve been saying Jimbo would sweep out Mickey and Jody all year, but is there the same urgency? I think if we win both these games, we’re in the hunt for the NC and the season comes down to the Florida game. As I said before had we won out and beaten UF we’d be in the NC game…at this point that I still think that’s true. Would those wins mask the problems or are you happy we lost this game to bring those things to the surface?

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If frogs had wings.

This defense has somewhat been smoke and mirrors all year long. We have very talented players who make a lot of plays, but they also give up a lot of openings that good offenses will take advantage of.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And bad offenses as well

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

...

Yes to the 1st question. Trust me, Jimbo wants those guys gone and we should not be so foolish to think that he wouldn’t leave in favor of another job.

Also, a 1-loss ACC team is not in contention for the Nat Champ this year. Perception matters.

I’ve only been happy at a loss ONE time— the Wake Shutout. This game wasn’t at that level for me. I expected these flaws to show up in other games— not this one.

As Fsued said: UF might be the “wake” game for the Bowden and Mickey show.

Heck, the 2 concerns I voiced were exactly what killed us: http://www.tomahawknation.com/2008/11/14/661415/blackout-preview-boston-co#comments

“1. They go max Protect a lot. I worry that we’ll try to blitz into this, not get there, and get burned”

“2. They run the zone-read option with Crane”

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wont argue the UF win anymore

But I see what you were predicting. Our blitzes tonight were terrible.

I’m still baffled by the fact that no matter how bad we’ve played this season, it seems as though we’ve always been a play away. Had Nigel stayed on top of Crane we could have run that fumble back. Had we not fumbled. I think everyone’s problem is that we’re no longer dominant.

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not fumbled in the g tech game

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A play away= talent w/o coaching.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yah I agree

but you can get lucky. Read LSU last year

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Read LSU v Troy this year

by TrueCubbie on Nov 16, 2008 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We lost our best speed receiver, our best clutch receiver, and our best deep threat. All three players have been mentioned by Jimbo as the REASONS for our increased offensive capacity. People scoffed at those losses, “Oh we’ve got enough weapons, we still have two good WRs”….

We can’t run a pro set against BC. Their tackles are too big and their Linebackers are too proof. We needed to spread them out and run our misdirection and sweeps. And we can’t do that because we suspended our 3rd, 4th, and 5th WRs WITHOUT any judgement from the law. They were guilty before proven innocent.

Ponder has had a terrible game.

The entire university was confused, distracted, and irritated this whole week, and we expected the football team, both the cause of and object of that grief, to be immune to it? Nope.

by CaStauch on Nov 16, 2008 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

he offensive line has had a terrible game, in part, because they were out matched. Two 400 lb 5th year seniors finally made our 13 year old kids (hyperbole for effect) look their age.

But it was also scheme. We didn’t set them up for success attempting to run a pro set. We were predicated in this direction DUE TO the suspensions to our 3rd 4th and 5th WRs. Without them, we don’t have the personnel to spread teams out. We become the 07 noles, expecting Preston Parker to be our only game breaker, which he can’t do because of his lack of elite speed, and jump balls to Carr.

Had we not had this problem on Wednesday, we could have used the size of the BC DL against themselves, by running away from it. By using more bubbles, by only having the threat of the extended perimeter.

Jermaine Thomas’ turf toe hampered him considerably, he was only in for like 10 plays.

Like I said, the whole team looked distracted. The whole university was….the fight happened in the Geographical and cultural center of campus! How could it not permeate throughout the entire university including and especially the football team?

by CaStauch on Nov 16, 2008 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Castauch,

good take(s).

I think the true impact of the receiver losses is somewhere in the middle of the common perception and your own. Owens played pretty well as a fill-in.

I think it was more about the distraction than the personnel losses. Are you saying we should not have suspended these guys?

Ponder did play poorly. I’ll watch the tape, but I am concerned that he crouching, mechanically. That said, McMahon was literally thrown into Ponder’s lap on every dropback.

I am very concerned with Thomas’ turf toe.

Points well taken. The question is… how do you stop this?

You cut bait. You cut Bobby. You use Nigel and co. to establish a new idea of discipline. You mold the new incoming thugs into people who can operate within a University setting.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've got a shirt from last year that says

Fisher Cut Bait

by RollinNole on Nov 16, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take one.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I will take one as welll...

Seriously, how do we fund this?

by HeedNole on Nov 17, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well... if you are serious...

Check out WhoDeyRevolution

These guys collected money to put up these billboards all around Cincinnati:

Could you imagine something that said “Dear TK, please make the real head coach the official head coach. Regards, taxpayers”

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll pitch in for that...see how much it costs & then see how much we can raise in this site.

worth a try anyhow.

Observations:
1. I’m REALLY miffed with the zone read issues and Mickey needs to go, but that’s not why we lost the game.
2. The D was on the field the ENTIRE NIGHT. so give them a break.
3. No one here is mentioning that Ponder (not the line, lack of recievers, or deffense) was the key to our loss….

I’m not jumping on his back, cause he’s been great, and this performance was not like him, but the fact remains that he struggled to figure out BC’s zone coverage. Then when he was finally getting it, he was passing up wide open recievers (or blatantly missing them) for the last 2.5 quarters of play. The glaring microcosim of this happened when he threw the ball away before half time after stairing down a wide open reciever in the endzone. He also cost the pick six. and the bad read to car (non-throw) puts us inside 40 yards on the missed field goal….He was wigged out and afraid to pull the trigger for the first time since Wake Forrest and that is why we lost this game.

Christian Freaking Ponder!

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He played really bad,

but I was waiting to criticize it a bit until I had watched the film for a second time, to make sure I saw what I thought I saw.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep I just sited 14 - 17pts. on 3 plays...

not to mention what could have happened had he been on throughout the game!

by truecolors on Nov 19, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ponder did not play that poorly. His wideout crew really screwed up, and the offense had very little chance to succeed.

I can’t really blame him for being gunshy after his wideouts literally cost him 2 interceptions (the pick-6 and the Carr horrible route in the end zone).

The receiver needed to flatten out on the pick 6. Bad route. It’s a hot and he has to throw it. The receiver must cut into the hotzone.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 19, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ocho cinco

haha i live in cincinnati and this whole season has been quite funny, especially when you turn on the radio and listen to some of the uneducated fans (not just football illiterate, but illiterate in general) try and come up with a plan to fix the current situation.

if anyone wants bengals tickets i think they are going for like $10 bucks????

by Renegade11 on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We’re not going to see consistent improvement from this team until there is a complete regime change. If Jimbo is the anchor of that new regime, then so be it. But be it quickly.

This ad hoc strategy that we’ve tried to piece together in order to give Bowden another chance has been an utter blunder. It has left the team gaping for inspiration and leadership. When a catastrophe does occur, as it did on Wednesday, our team is left paralyzed by indecision and confusion.

It wasn’t going to work. There are reasons that sayings like “There can only be one captain on the ship” persist and prove to be accurate.

Maybe next year it happens, I doubt it. We’re too bound to Bowden. There’s literally nothing that we can (Or Wetherall wants) to do.

Somewhere along the line the big money boosters stopped becoming fans of FSU football and started to become fans of Bowden. It has resulted in a form of idolatry that has killed the program.

We became Rome after the nepotism. And we’re burning like it, too.

by CaStauch on Nov 16, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My hope ...

… is that this game is the defensive equivalent of the Wake Forest game two years ago. It was equally as embarassing, just on a different side of the ball. Ga. Tech, and now BC, basically saying, we’re going to run the same play (or variation) over and over until you show you can stop it and we couldn’t/didn’t.

That Wake game was the beginning of the end for Jeff Bowden — this needs to be the same for MA.

Having said that, a couple of thoughts:

1) We knew coming into the season that we were vulnerable at DT and that has been borne out, perhaps just later than we expected. There is reason to hope that our recruiting will address this.
2) Obviously, still a year (or two?) away on the O-line.
3) Ponder still has a LONG way to go. SOOOO many times he is late with this throws. He esp. needs to work on having a shorter memory — INTs really seem to affect his play.
4) I’m back down to 5 percent on us beating Florida ~~- we’ll have to be plus 3 in turnovers and win special teams big to have a chance. More likely -~~ 49-17
5) Also, ONLY chance of beating Florida is to bounce back with a big win in Maryland, which I doubt will happen.
6) A very disappointing loss. We were exposed tonight. We’re better than last year, but not that much better. Still have confident in offense — Ponder has two more years to grow and he will. O-line needs to grow LITERALLY. Plenty of skill talent. Defense, though, if we can’t stop people with this talent (save DT), clearly there are scheme issues.

by Fsued on Nov 16, 2008 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why does Bobby escape any blame? Yeah the man is great, he made FSU. He made also made FSU mediocre the last 4 years. Yes, it all comes back to him. He made those horrible hires, he is ultimately the one to blame.

by Jaguar on Nov 16, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1. Agreed, but I worry that the newcomers are too young. Next Year’s D could be the worst in 30 years if we Watson and PRob leave while McNiel and someone else doesn’t maintain their academic eligibility.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2. I think we are a YEAR away on the OLine, not two. They just need 15 lbs and another year of living.

3. He does, but I can understand why he is timid. He isn’t trusting his eyes. He never had a consistent pocket.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We're not beating UF. They have 2 full weeks to prepare, we have a 3000 mile road trip at night the week before.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At this point Uncensored

I’d celebrate a 21 point loss to Florida the same I would a win. UF is going to be a bloodbath.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. I just want a good offensive showing and an inspired overall effort.

I have no doubt that Mickey is outclassed here.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you touched on it with 6)

The reason I believe we are having trouble with option and zone read is because we are weakin in the middle and our scheme is attempting to compensate for that…..we need to recruit DT’s or nothing else in this class, and we aren’t

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts....

I believe this may have been the most disappointing game in the past few years. The team received another opportunity to show how much it has improved over the season. Once again, epic fail!

I know that statistically this defense put up some fantastic numbers, but in reality, they are average at best. As much as the DT’s have been a disappointment, the lack of secondary talent is really hurting this team. I believe that Magnum and McClure are definitely not 1-A material.

The next few weeks are critical for the fate of the program. Can you imagine if UF comes in a drops 50? I think that would seal Mickey’s fate.

Great site by the way.

by windycitynole on Nov 16, 2008 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if it was the most disappointing, but it is up there.

I don’t think the STARTING secondary is horrible from a talent standpoint, but they are poorly coached.

If it seals Mickey’s fate, then so be it. Mickey’s fate should be sealed based odd the decline in his work, not one game.

Thanks for joining up.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t have much else to say other than I feel sick. I am embarrassed. Embarrassed to have a Seminole tattoo inked onto my body. Pathetic. Disappointed. Once again my hopes were sky high as I cheered loudly and threw beer across the room as NC State defeated Wake earlier today. Excited that we held our own destiny.

ACCCG goodbye. Emerald Bowl, hello.

As much as I love him, BB needs to go. I will always preach…I bleed Garnet & Gold , not Bobby Bowden.

by thirdcoastnole on Nov 16, 2008 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with FSUncensored whole heartedly

I love Bobby Bowden and Mickey Andrews and what they’ve done for us. But I agree we need to do everything we can to keep Jimbo. We need him. We Absolutely FUCKING need him. I also agree that a beatdown from UF will seal the deal for both of them. The only thing we can do to pull anything out of this season is beat Florida, but we need Jimbo. So I’m not sure what to root for.

If Ponder throws that ball 1 foot to the left we win this game. I thought when Graham Gano faked that punt that we found the swing we needed to win.

by Weasie on Nov 16, 2008 12:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The iconic symbol of this whole game

McClure being taken to the locker room after doing a high bump.

Taken out.

By his own team mate.

by robrrt on Nov 16, 2008 12:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

COMPLETE LACK OF DISCIPLINE

TOTALLY EMBARRASING!!!! When is the coaching staff going to instill some discipline into this football team?? Another completely stupid penalty contributes to the lackluster performance of an extremely talented group of athletes. I am so tired of seeing this game after game, something has to be done. The sad thing is the penalty comes from one of our leaders. How has this not been corrected when it happens all the time?

by akt21 on Nov 16, 2008 12:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why is no one pointing out the real reason for the loss?

Black Jerseys. FSU isn’t the only team that has sucked wearing black. Georgia got blasted in black, and so has Maryland in the past. Everyone sucks in black.

I seriously think that the jerseys contributed. Nothing was set up this week for there to be good preparation for the game. The fight was a distraction, the blackout was a distraction. They weren’t the whole reason for the loss by a long shot, but they didn’t help.

We were outplayed and outcoached. Nobody on the team played well(except Gano). It was one loss. Admittedly to a team we probably should have beaten. The team is not reeling. If they lose to Maryland next week? Yeah, then they will be reeling.

This game sucked, it was a bad loss, and everyone is overreacting. I may agree with all this by the end of the season, but I will wait at least until the end of the regular season to pass this kind of extreme judgement.

by Mongo314 on Nov 16, 2008 1:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

As is your right.

I’ve just seen enough slippage over last few years.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Speechless...

Honestly, I don’t know which loss hurts more: GTech or BC. First of all, congrats to BC. They played a physical, disciplined, patient game and well fell prey to our obvious weaknesses.

I think the thing that frustrated me most was BC’s last drive: how many times do they need to run that zone read play before we figure it out? Why are our backside DE’s pirouetting when their shoulders should be square to the line with outside leverage?

This game, again, played a variation on a theme. Unfortunately, we are a highly athletic undisciplined team, on and off the field and it showed tonight. How many pass interferences? Robinson we’re you really going to get beat that bad? A personal foul when we stop them on third down? A torn ACL after celebrating a crucial interception? I am highly disappointed and we were lucky to even be in that game. Remember the GTech game…we couldn’t stay disciplined to stop their option.

Before that last pick to Carr, I thought we were back to our old ways and were about to set up our victory. However, I really think the way BC started the game killed us. Our team came out over excited that it was homecoming and the black jerseys were on display. BC punched us right in the face. A long drive. Onside kick. Pick six. Our offense isn’t mature or skilled enough yet to recover against a defense who had as good a defensive line as them.

We will get there. This line will get better. Ponder will get better. Our next group of receivers will role through. And by the way…who can’t wait to see Nigel on the field every single defensive down?

BC played a good, smart, effective game. Nothing fancy. But, we lost this one and we shouldn’t have. This was a completely wasted opportunity that just demonstrate our glaring weaknesses to our next two opponents. What a shame.

(By the way, the basketball team won a squeaker in Jacksonville 59-57. Douglas had 16. Singleton had 12 and 16 boards. Hamilton moves to 7-0 in season openers.)

by TrueCubbie on Nov 16, 2008 1:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I also agree with the comments above about the suspensions hurting us...

…I was surprised to see over and over formations that were so tight. We played into their defensive hands. Keep the line backers close and put too many in the box against a young line that could not hand the Hamburgler Twins up front. I think our receivers played ok. I still think we should have spread them out and attacked with our speed. Look how many times Ponder got to the outside or put their linebackers on their ass with a couple of moves. D’Vo? Maybe we could have used him more…We played to their strengths and they found our weaknesses and continuously set us up for failure. That’s great coaching and a group of athletes who are committed to a system.

by TrueCubbie on Nov 16, 2008 2:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Douglas missed 2 free throws in a row leading 59-57.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Responding in 2 parts.

I think the discipline thing is echoed in everyone’s thoughts.

I want to make this clear: do NOT assume that defensive players were absent from the fight.

You speak of hope, but t seems to be mostly on the offensive side. I agree with that IF we can keep Jimbo. Any hope for next year’s defense?

98 Markus White | 6-4, 245, So., JC
95 Kevin McNeil | 6-2, 253, Jr., 2— I don’t think he will stay academically qualified, but whatever.
72 Budd Thacker | 6-2, 280, Jr., 2V— could drop out of school.
90 Moses McCray | 6-2, 286, Fr., HS
56 Kendrick Stewart | 6-2, 268, Jr., RS
94 Justin Mincey | 6-5, 284, Jr., 2V— Twice an academic issue, not guaranteed to be back.
93 Everett Dawkins | 6-2, 242, Fr., HS

15 Ochuko Jenije | 5-10, 187, So., RS
21 Patrick Robinson | 5-11, 192, Jr., 2V— should be gone
22 Korey Mangum | 6-0, 200, Jr., RS
20 Jamie Robinson | 6-2, 190, Jr., RS

As for the formations, yeah, we haven’t run that much I in a while.

We should probably consider a JUCO Center in case McMahon can’t put on 25lbs.

So disappointed. I didn’t think all our issues would combine in this way until UF.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

it wasn’t that our Defense didn’t show up. They were fired up and aggressive, showing a lot of life. They made some huge plays when they needed to. But they didn’t contain themselves into a well oiled machine that should have contained BC: blown assignments (to be expected), missed tackles (to be expected, but should be limited), penalty after penalty (inexcusable) and so on. These things all added up and contributed to why we lost the game.

by TrueCubbie on Nov 16, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We had +1 rushing yards until Gano ran that fake punt.

by walkoffwalk on Nov 16, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why is Fisher gettin g the pass here? I have wondered for 2 years now at some of his genius calls. Now, I am not blaming him for yesterday either. WE LOST. Going in, somebody had to. Yes, it is very frustrating…with suspended players and nutty penalties, it does seem as if the Seminoles players are our own worst enemies. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t the defense ranked very high in most categories? 18% 3rd down success rates for opponents? In this day and age you are not going to hold most Division 1 teams to less than 20pts. and low yardage totals week after week. GUARANTEED… IF that last interception had of not happened or if we had of recovered last fumble at the end of the game and ran it back… 90% of this crap would not be on here today. That GaTech game was 1 play away from a win…come on people. This is not 1999 and the teams we are playing are not TROY and SE Louisiana or Central Mich, etc… they are not too shabby.
Finally… The people who write the mean things about Bobby Bowden… WTF? Do any of you really think the Jimbo Fisher (or any) regime will bring the 90’s back in a flash? Why, if we critique Bowden for being a “figure head” on one hand, do we blame him for things when it is bad? hmmmm… 3 weeks ago when we were riding high… was it Saint Bobby on here? I should go back in the archives and check. I hate losing and was upset after this mess last night. BUT… somebody had to lose. FSU was flat and it showed early. We never gave up and kept it within reach. That does show some positive things, right? anyway… before you wish for our version of Urban M ( i despise that unlikable ass) look at the big picture and let this program evolve and grow at the pace it will anyway. NO QUICK FIXES… oh, unless we could get the great Nick Saban. he is a real gem too… SEMINOLES for LIFE and Bobby Bowden as long as he wishes.
Thank You…

by wolffbird7 on Nov 16, 2008 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts on Bowden from a few weeks back. We’ve stayed consistent. You don’t even need to check the archives.

Seminoles for life. Bowden for not one more day.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As for the rest. Let's break this down.

Why is Fisher gettin g the pass here? I have wondered for 2 years now at some of his genius calls.

Jimbo has consistently exceeded expectations this year as his offense has produced week after week despite having a seriously handicapped offensive line. Mickey’s squad has not even had a season ending injury to a starter! They were entirely healthy and very experienced— yet were embarrassed again.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t the defense ranked very high in most categories? 18% 3rd down success rates for opponents?

Some categories. Unfortunately, these guys have been consistently out schemed and Mickey is living purely off their athleticism. His strategies are well known and consistently exposed. That was on display again tonight.

Mickey’s schemes have been exposed by freshmen quarterbacks. They’ve been exposed by veteran quarterbacks. They’ve only been successful this year when the starting QB went down with injury, or the opposing offensive line suffered massive casualties.

BC held the ball for 39 minutes— their best offensive performance of the year— in DOAK CAMPBELL!

The people who write the mean things about Bobby Bowden… WTF? Do any of you really think the Jimbo Fisher (or any) regime will bring the 90’s back in a flash?

He was once great but now is a huge drag on this program. His actions and attitude have turned this program into a laughing stock. He does nothing for this program that another coach couldn’t do. he doesn’t put in the long hours of a typical head coach. Fisher won’t get us back immediately, but every moment that Bowden is here is a moment wasted.

We don’t have a leader. Jimbo was furious all week because he couldn’t take control of this team. We need to keep him and I am hearing that he will leave if given the opportunity (Auburn).

I do not care at all if our coach is nice, or a total prick. I want a winner, and only a winner. Unsavory tactics? Fine with me. Just win football games and keep up with the times— neither of which Bowden does.

3 years ago, you were in the minorority. Now, most die-hard Bowden lovers realize what a joke he has become and want him gone.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree re: Bowden

After the bowl game, ask him to resign. If he refuses, fire him.

Take the PR hit for a few months until 2009, when Fisher goes 8-4 or something. Real FSU fans are fan of the TEAM, not a septunagarian head coach who’s best days are long behind him.

I don’t want to lose Fisher the same way we lost Richt.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Losing Fisher would cripple us

We would lose our great recruiting class and we need this class in a bad way.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love when people give Bobby all the credit for the 90s. Mark Richt and Mickey Andrews are as much to thank as Bobby. Look at Bobby’s record, you can clearly see where Mark Richt and Andrews joined FSU. Before them, Bobby’s record was similar to how it is now, up and down, 7, 8, 9 win seasons. Seeing the clear decline after Richt left and the continued struggle, it seems Richt was more to thank than anyone, even more than Mickey.

by Jaguar on Nov 16, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is going to turn ugly, but...

there are many who believe Bowden was an average coach and a great recruiter. That’s a fine combination and it does work, as long as the head man hires a good staff.

Would anyone hire Jody Allen, Chuck Amato, or Mickey Andrews at this point?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Arrgghh - The Mediocrity!!!

Wow – this is really bad football. Please remember, people applaud at the special olympics aslo.

by OGN on Nov 16, 2008 12:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, USC, Penn State, Tennessee, Alabama, etc… all have had more substantial falls than FSU. Now, does that mean everybody should just chill? no. What I am saying… look at Kansas, South Florida, Arizona, Cal, Texas A & M, Wisconsin, Louisville, and soon add to that list Missouri, Texas Tech, and the other “flavor of the months” that have come down the pike and was supposed to be the “future”. These coaches come and go. If Jimbo Fisher agreed to that deal last December and is already sending out feelers… hell, how long will it be before he is looking for greener grass? 3, 4, 5 years? Look around the country at the parity. how many bowl teams this year wil be 6-6 up to 8-4? You really have 6 or 7 powerhouses and then the drop is swift. Utah and Boise are cute programs that can play 1 or 2 (maybe 3) strong teams and get up for it. These super conferences have played each other for decades… they have rivalries and histories that can bring more to a game than just talent vs talent. FSU should not be 7-6. But really… give JF total contral and what do we think this year would of brought? 8-4 or 9-3 ??? both are still in reach and would be very realistic if that GA Tech fumble had not occured. Look how long it took Alabama to get relevant again. Texas? I remember a few lean years before Mack Brown. Oklahaoma? etc… Michigan and Notre Dame will be a long climb up… and in the football landscape of today, they may NEVER recover. Be careful what you wish for. FSU is on tv every week and more often than not, in a great time slot and coverage area. WHY? history and reputation… both can be credited to Bobby Bowden. What is going to happen, is going to happen. I am just thankful for DirecTV gameplan package… in the near future we will be Raycom game of the week and ESPNU noon starts. hahahahaha and touting the NEW REGIME… over and over and over and over. 2015 Coach number 3 and probably wearing uni’s like Oregon Ducks… just to get attention!

by wolffbird7 on Nov 16, 2008 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"History and Reputation"

If that’s all Bowden brings to the table, then can him.

The Noles have had two 7:45 starts at home on ABC or ESPN this season? What happened? Last night and Wake Forest. I’d rather play at noon on ESPNU and win than look pathetic at night.

At this point, Bowden is just stealing money. We are winning in spite of him, not because of him.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But he can talk to the mamas and the papas...

Which is impressive since Mama Cass has been dead for 30 years.

Even though Bowden doesn’t do anything, I’d be fine keeping him as long as we got 3 new defensive assistants.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really? You don't want a coach who is able to contribute and put in the long hours that other coaches do?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I do.

But it’s hard for me to kick the guy out the door, he’s pretty cool and he taught me how to say dadgum.

I think we would be a BCS team next season with a better defensive staff.

I would take that for the 2009 season. Make a run to the Orange Bowl, send Bobby on the farewell tour, start over again in 2010.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It hurts to say this, but Bowden is stealing at this point and he is clearly fearful of death upon retirement.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't mean to be a prick

but at 77, death is going to happen to him soon anyway, regardless of what he does. I know the Bear Bryant story, but hijacking a program because someone else died 30 years ago a few months after retiring is selfish at best.

I hope Bobby lives to be 100, but that he’s unemployed for 23 of those years.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

79, and yes he is still holding us hostage.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If only...

Bobby had been a fan of John Wooden and not the Bear.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You are evading the issue and your love for Bowden is apparently allowing you to accept complacency and mediocrity just as he has.

Fisher will leave because he is frustrated.

Bowden and Andrews are killing the program. They will not turn it around. They are washed up.

Please stop citing the Ga Tech fumble. Andrews game plan was inept there too. I even wrote about that very fact Please read that rebuke before you bring up Georgia Tech again.

Mickey’s defense has been incredibly lucky this year as opposing QB’s have gone down with injury.

Colorado: soph QB, horrible team
Miami: Frosh QB
NC State: Frosh QB
VT: horrible offense, tore us up until TWO qb’s went down to injury
GT: 8 yards per play until QB sprains ankle.
Clemson: missing 3 OLine starters, they torch us
BC: terrible offense, holds the ball for 39 minutes, dominant.

Bowden is worthless to this program at this point and you are foolish to think that he has a serious hand in getting us on National TV.

His continued presence is the cause of our fractured leadership dynamic. He is a joke.

We will not be whole until the final remnants of the nepotism era are purged.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I still don't understand

How some of the fanbase can forget about the other 59 minutes of the GT game where our defense got their hats handed to them.

I don’t think any of our linebackers touched Dwyer until the post game handshake.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The ones who can't are largely uneducated and rely on the simplest of media that panders to the low-level fan.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Uneducated about football* I don't know their overall education level. Apologies.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd flunk out of law school if I took the time

to point out everything that is wrong with this post.

by andy_wooster on Nov 16, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be worth it to the world to have one less lawyer and it would be fascinating to have you dissect an opinion. It is hard to get your points across typing “emotions”. Yes, I have an admiration for Bobby Bowden, going back to my childhood and growing up near WVU. It was when he came to FSU I began to follow and learn about the school. It was not easy liking an independent in the late 70’s… not many chances to see or hear about the games, but I got Sporting News and other mags and did keep up.
How many of us have a true stake in this? rooting interests aside, how many of us will lose a dime or gain one based on when Bobby Bowden leaves FSU? It upsets me to read people saying he is senile and stealing money… almost as much as it would if he was family. Critique the coaching and the fact he values loyalty and stability, but why personal attacks on a 79 year old man who has done more for this University than 95% of the people who have came through there. (95% because I am not familiar with all the school history) If sports is a tool to get a school recognized, what was FSU before Bowden? and yes… HE is a factor in the team getting prime tv slots. UVA? MD? UNC? hell, now Miami only gets time when they play FSU, Florida, VaTech. Did you see the opening on ABC the other night? before the Clemson game? who the hell do they focus on? geez… I know, time marches on… new blood… etc… we shall see. Be careful who/what you wish for. Maybe Bobby Petrino will follow Jimbo in a couple years

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The point is that Bowden is NO LONGER GOOD FOR FSU.

He is DONE being a positive. The negatives far outweigh the positives and he hurts FSU in his current capacity.

Every Florida taxpayer has a stake in this.

Take this simple test: “would any other school hire coach ____ if they had a vacancy?” The answer for Bowden, Amato, Mickey, and Allen, at a major school is NO (at least not for the same position a good school).

We’re not paying him 2+Million for what he did. We are paying him to be a head coach and he is failing in that role. His cronyism is only part of the problem.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Been reading the LSU board and then found a Tennessee one… same stuff. It kinda puts it all in perspective. LSU people are livid over the Troy game… UT is ticked over… well, they are ticked over Everything! It seems everyone feels their team is deserving of high rankings, blowout wins, happy alumni, happy students, the “it” guy to be coach, etc… this is why there will never be a playoff. There are always going to be enough schools that will take that bowl win and use it for a building block and a positive end to the season… whether it was a disappointing season, average, or above expectations. Remember a couple years ago when we played UCLA in the Emerald Bowl? It was said then that the two programs were ships passing in the night. UCLA’s coach was the “hot commodity”. 1 year later… GONE! I will go forth with my head buried in the sand and continue to appreciate having FSU as my school of choice and knowing that almost every other Division 1 school would kill to have our history (last 30 years of history) Parity is here and there will NEVER be the dominating teams like there was in the past… and you know, I like that. It will make our climb back into top 10, top 5, and #1 all the more sweet. Taxpayers are paying for plenty my friend… I would be shocked if Bobby’s paycheck is the top of anybody’s waste list. I am curious as to the ages of the people who are really ranting on here and being nasty in their comments. I think I have a good idea of the range… God help us 40 and over crowd…

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wolf

you’re justifying your argument by saying:

1) other teams have problems as well, and
2) people here are younger, so their arguments are invalid.

Again, I ask you:

"would any other school hire coach ____ if they had a vacancy?" The answer for Bowden, Amato, Mickey, and Allen, at a major school is NO (at least not for the same position at a good school).

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not exactly saying that, but...

My point is that almost every team has issues that lead somebody to be calling for a firing or two or three or… no, at this juncture nobody would hire Bobby Bowden or Mickey Andrews to lead their programs. Is that surprising though? hardly. It’s kinda like looking at an aging starlet and asking would ya? maybe not today, but boy a few years ago you sure would. Now, to the person by their side now, they have the memories and the history and the affection for them… maybe they look past the flaws and scars of age and still see beauty. Ok corny… but my comparison is this… Bobby will retire, sooner than later. He and Paterno deserve as big a farewell tour as anybody has had in sports. It needs to be a celebration and a congratulations and a Thank You for all that has been done. Bobby could’ve left more than once… and, as I wrote yesterday… Jimbo signed that contract last year, if he is already sending out feelers and such… WATCH OUT! He will bolt like so many of his generation of coaches are doing. FSU needs to stay like the Pittsburgh Steelers or the old LA Dodgers, coaching changes are rare and big news. I hope Jimbo stays and when it is his turn to mold a program we win and win and win… but again, I will…me, Gary (my .000001% cents worth) never support running Bobby Bowden away and still clinging to his legacy and the great things he brought to Tallahassee.
I was not saying younger opinions are invalid… I just think there is something to said for loyalty and caring about more than X’s and O’s and W & L’s. We have not sunk to Michigan/Notre Dame/Nebraska depths… The grass is not always greener… age teaches that. It also teaches that in this country it is what did you do for me lately as opposed to what have you done for your lifetime. sad… my opinion

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wolf, I think you're making my point

Nobody would give that washed up starlet the top role in a blockbuster.

Bobby deserved a huge retirement celebration in 2003, when it was clear that he was losing a step. 5 years later after he has dragged this program down. He has done a lot of damage in the past 5 years and it is going to take time to undue the problems that he created through his selfish moves and stubborn attitude.

New coaches will bolt if they get a much better offer elsewhere. We must secure Jimbo as OUR coach.

Bobby brought a lot of good to Tally, and nobody will debate that, but over the last 5 years no logical person will argue that he has been anything but a negative, and he continues to be a detriment and a drag on our program RIGHT NOW.

As to the what have you done for me lately comment, he has been hugely compensated for his performance. This is a performance based job. It’s not a good will lifetime appointment. This isn’t Kiwanis.

How long would you leave him in here to rot out program, seriously? Has he earned the right to tear down the program he helped build? Do the obscene amounts of cash he’s earned take away any of those rights?

He is scared of death upon retirement.

We will always love Bobby. He is one of my heroes, but his actions in this decade have been far from heroic. His inability to quit when he was ahead, and the administration is to blame as well for putting him in a position that was above reproach.

FSUed wrote this piece today: http://www.tomahawknation.com/2008/11/17/663813/been-thinking . let’s continue this conversation there if this comment thread becomes unruly or unmanageable due to bulk.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I guess now I understand why ESPN Gameday came to Tallahassee and broadcasted from FAMU instead of FSU.

by FSUBrad on Nov 16, 2008 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We still ALMOST BEAT Georgia Tech. that is the point. Other than those 7 or 8 top teams this year, WHO is setting the world on fire WEEK after WEEK? Look at those Big 12 scores. How much defense is being played? BTW… if you disagree with anybody on here… you are uneducated? hahahaha I would argue that point, but anyway…
When the loud and proud on get what they want… just like the good ol’ election of our new President… no more excuses and no more BS. Then what? sheesh… amazing how cowards at a keyboard pounce on you for having an opinion. I never claimed to be the burning bush or to be giving commandments… just thoughts. whew
And, I was counting the ABC 3:30 games. How many 7-6 teams from the past 2 years have had this much national tv? again… it was a question to make a point. FSU is still paid attention to when many of the other power teams from the past decade are afterthoughts. OK?

by wolffbird7 on Nov 16, 2008 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Since you brought it up...

Alabama was 7-6 two years ago and 6-7 last year.

I’m sure they’d trade coaches with us so that they could get those 3:30 ABC games. We’d just have to settle for a number 1 ranking.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can you please reply to the specicif post? Just click "reply" and a drop down box appears.

We were dominated for Georgia Tech. Did you read the linked article?

This is a veteran, talented defense that is not playing well at all. They are poorly coached.

This team lacks discipline and that starts at the top. Bowden is a senile and selfish old man who is killing our program and has done so for the past few years.

I clarified the uneducated comment, and I stand by my point: if you think we played well against Georgia Tech, believe that in any way deserved to win that game, or think that it was close for any reason other than an amazing game from the offense and an injury to their QB, you do not know what you are looking at.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hit reply… hmmm… see, even this old dog (40) can learn a new piece of trickeration! OK, I never said they played good against GaTech. I wrote that in spite of the performance, it was that close to being a victory… again, isn’t that what counts here? (well, not here apparently) Good Lord, we are now going to rewrite history and say that, what… 25yrs ago Bowden should of left? 15? 10? Is FSU the only school who had a Mark Richt type and they left for a head coaching gig? I am not going to change your mind and vice versa… especially typing back and forth. The guy who commented on the empty seats… Bowden’s fault? I’ll answer that, YES! in your eyes and countless others. In reality, and I hate to say this… but this fanbase has always been a bit spoiled. It is amazing at how fickle a group of people can be. It started when we lost the ACC for the first time… and no matter what the reasons, nobody wants to accept the fact we are not TOP 5 or 10 at this juncture. Jimbo Fisher is not going to be the savior. He shows a stubborn side that tells alot about his “head coaching” style. The offense will do what he planned out, with little adjustments. hmmm… seems like him and Mickey would be great together? I hear the water boy is loyal to Bobby also… I think proper hydration is to blame as well. sheesh. And, finally… a win is a win. Do you think Wake Forest was bummed that was had players out? Do you think VaTech would of spotted us 10pts if our QB’s were knocked out of the game? It is a story that plays out over 3 to 4hrs. You take the whole package and come up with a conclusion. I would be thrilled if on the 29th Tebo fell coming off the cross that morning and landed on his beloved Coach and neither of them could make the game. BTW, I heard Jimmy Buffett was there for a visit after Florida beat South Carolina. Too bad it wasn’t Kenny Chesney. I think him and Urban were separated at birth… Urban got the blessing of coaching football and Kenny got the cowboy hat and talent. Thanks for the tip on proper posting… I love this forum, it is a good way to get the blood pumping on a cold Monday morning in Virginia.

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TeboW... I know...

I meant to add a large W at the end of his name for effect… but was typing fast and made a blunder. I knew I would be bashed for not knowing how to spell the great one’s name. really, who doesn’t? they teach him in school already!

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 4:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Since you asked...

I think Bobby Bowden should have left 9 years ago. Ride into the sunset after a perfect season, wire-to-wire number 1, and a national championship. Let Mark take over (sorry Mick) and I think we’d be in pretty good shape right now and for the last 8 years.

B the W, I hope I am not coming off as combative here, I just appreciate the discussion back and forth.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no offense taken...just hate the rude comments some make about Bobby

by wolffbird7 on Nov 17, 2008 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another thing re: Bowden

Hopefully this is his last season, and I’ll tell you why.

It’s no promise that the 2009 Noles make the postseason. Uncensored has already written how bad the D could potentially be next season. So picture this image:

The 2009 Florida-Florida State game will be in Gainsville. It will be the last home game for Tim Tebow and (maybe) Percy Harvin. I don’t want Bowden’s last game to be a 63-10 thrashing at Ben-Hill Griffin Stadium, and I don’t think anyone else here does either.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 2:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The WWE clip for that one....

Terry Funk getting his brains beat in by people half his age.

by MattDNole on Nov 16, 2008 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHA

Funny, but sad. But still funny!

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Nov 16, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who saw Alabama coming? even BAMA people were not expecting the season they have had. Don’t like him, but Nick Saban is the key and players that caught fire. I think they call that a Perfect Storm. And… Alabama has played plenty of prime time games themselves and 3:30 starts ( just on CBS) sooooo… they probably wouldn’t trade. Maybe one or two of those other overrated SEC teams might wanna trade. you kittens sure have the claws out today

by wolffbird7 on Nov 16, 2008 2:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What is Bowden doing for us again?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just got back to Tampa

and do i feel miserable…. Where are our fans? Why can’t we sellout a national TV primetime homecoming game? How does Penn St, no matter what their record is, sell out 110,000 people every game? State College PA is 5 hours in every direction from any city…. I looked over at the 10,000 empy seats and felt sick, and that was before the game started!

As for the game..awful. We were out “everything-ed” in relation to football. Once again, we had a chance to prove we are headed in the right direction, had all of the cards fall our way for the ACC CG and shit the bed.

Bobby, please save us and step down. You have no idea what it would mean to us.

by fsumike12 on Nov 16, 2008 6:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Could anyone do a better job bringing down a program without being blatantly obvious than Bowden?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dumb-dog defense

Our defense is like putting peanut butter on a dumb dog’s tail and watching it run circles chasing the tail non stop.

I give a ton of credit to BC. They took the only three misdirection plays in their playbook and destroyed us with them. It’s mind-boggling more teams don’t do that vs us. All the more reason Patrick Nix is a moron.

I really honestly felt confident about this game, and I’m usually skeptical before pretty much every game. I didn’t realize how smart that coach was, and I underestimated him.

Mickey will retire when Bobby does, so hopefully Bowden retiring after next year will kill two birds with one stone. Not sure how Amato fits in the picture, as his loyalty is to bobby, not jimbo. I’d say he’s pretty much as good as gone when Bowden steps down, if our administration and Jimbo has any brains. Having him around when Jimbo is head coach is an internal catastrophy waiting to happen.

Not very confident going into this weekend, I must say.

by mp212121 on Nov 16, 2008 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll guarantee you that Jimbo doesn't want Amato. Not expounding.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 16, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And nice job with the dumb-dog. Can I use that in this week's preview?

I really honestly felt confident about this game, and I’m usually skeptical before pretty much every game. I didn’t realize how smart that coach was, and I underestimated him.

Agreed. 1st game I thought we’d get a true kill.

hopefully Bowden retiring after next year will kill two birds with one stone.

This needs to happen this offseason, not next. If not, we can expect more of the same.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Mickey will retire when Bobby does."

I am currently still a proponent of the idea the Bobby stays on as a symbol for the 2009 season and a farewell tour.

Here’s a hypothetical:
Mickey, who is expected (does anybody really know?) to retire whenever Bobby retires, doesn’t want to steal any of the spotlight from his mentor in his last season. So he steps down this offseason. Jimbo, as a show of good faith, does the hiring and firing of the defensive staff.

FSUncensored,
You mentioned earlier that Jimbo would leave for a job like Auburn if we hadn’t sorted things out yet. I’ve always assumed they would target Muschamp if anything happened to Tubbs. Jimbo to Tennessee might be a bit concerning after the Vols strike out on their first 5 choices.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"show of good faith"

I meant this more of a show by the University that they are committed to Jimbo.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 8:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously we differ on the Bowden farewell tour idea. I think naming the stadium and erecting stained glass windows and statues were the “Bobby, seeya” signals, but he missed them and T.K. did not step up. We’re not moving forward with Bobby here. Not with out resources. Not with other teams having a full compliment of coaches.

On the Hypo: anything helps. Maybe we could do that, then Bobby would feel alone on the staff and decide to step down as well. I don’t intend that to be mean, but I try to evaluate all decisions within the framework of “how does this help FSU win a National Championship?”

Tennessee scares me as well. Hopefully they will not pursue him, but Jimbo has a great agent and Sexton could easily float his name.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No chance Bowden retires this offseason, unless an unforeseen circumstance happens. I think the admin will force him to announce that he’s done after next season. So if that happens, then we get to look forward to a full year of a side-show spectacle aka the bowden farewell tour, which will negatively impact everything.

by mp212121 on Nov 17, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont understand

I dont get how BC can run one play and take everything the noles have worked so hard to get. That zone read QB option killed us and that hurt. We stuck with a 4-3 and they beat us. I would love to have seen us go in with our goal line D. We could have stoped it I think. It was just garbage and someone needs to be held for that. It was like we were being sabotaged.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Amato is a horrible coach. I am not holding back here. He is an absolute Joke and many on the coaching staff just despise the guy. It amazes me that a guy who demands locker room discipline commands one of the most undisciplined groups of linebackers in FSU’s history.

I could live with Bobby and Mickey staying on for 1 more year. I hope not, but I could live with it. Allen and Amato need to be canned immediately.

Amato is no longer a recruiting ace, despite what Brent Musberger said on Saturday.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adding:

I am worried that Amato will ruin Bradham, Williams, and Carr.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember FSUncensored saying something about the DE coach/ST coach needing to be gone. I dont know who is to blame for the BC game. I feel we did a good job on the Off for the most part. We had things working but the D couldnt stop BC. BC controled the clock and keep the ball away from us. that was how we have won most of our game. Wear the team down and control the ball. Our D coaches have to step up and find a way to stop them. with 9min left in the game and BC with the lead we all know they were going to run the ball. Im not saying blitz everyone because thats hasnt worked all night. At least a man/blitz I though we should have went to a zone/blitz.
The other thing is when Jimbo takes over he needs to go get someone that can do damage on Def. There is only one place to go I think. The SEC. Look at everyone in the country. There is no better Def. than in the SEC. The only problem is getting a Def. cord. to come over. The only other place to go is maybe pull someone up from like Appl. ST or one of them schools. We are going to need an overhall and a lot of coaches to replace. I think Micky has dont a great job over the years but I think its not his calls but the other Def coaches around him. I just dont know who to keep and who to lose. I like the LB coach but thats about it.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 8:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

SEC

Des, I am actually in favor of getting a defensive coordinator from OUTSIDE the SEC. I want someone who is going a good job because of SCHEME, not because of athleticism. Then, you take that solid scheme with the coaching principles and you add our athletes.

The DE/ST coach is Jody Allen and he will be gone eventually.
The LB coach is Amato and there are multiple insiders who are livid with him.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike London

If we could get a Virginia guy out of Virginia and a Richmond grad out of the head coaching spot at Richmond, I’d throw some money at this guy.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good call. I like

http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=1133441&SPSID=88794&SPID=10606&DB_OEM_ID=17800

African American (can’t underestimate this in recruiting. We were hammered a few years ago for having no African Americans on staff.

He also runs a 3-4 scheme. I like it. I wonder how he has done against spread teams?

Also has NFL experience.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Record vs the Spread

The highlights against the spread include holding Texas Tech to 31 (I know that sounds bad, but only two teams held the Red Raiders to fewer point totals last year and nobody has done it this year) and 13th ranked West Virginia to 22 in the 2007 and 2002 Gator Bowls respectively.

The lowlights include at least two big losses to Florida State by scores of 36-3 and 33-0 and giving up 51 to NC State in 2003 (we gave them 50 in Doak Campbell that year).

2002 ppg allowed: 24.9, median 22.5
2003 ppg allowed: 22.9, median 24
2004 ppg allowed: 17.7, median 15
2006 ppg allowed: 17.8, median 17
2007 ppg allowed: 18.8, median 20

*I didn’t look up the box scores here to find out how many of the points allowed were on special teams or by Virginia’s offensive turnovers, so these totals can only go down.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm about to talk myself into wanting this guy

Rivals 2007 top 25 recruiter, signed 7 players to Virginia with an average star rating of 3.29.

The Texans were terrible everywhere in 2005, but the NFL experience never hurts a college assistant coach.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're good!

Now, could we get him?

Another problem: he coaches defensive line. O’Dell coaches defensive line. If we decide we want him, let’s wait so we can get McAllister and McDaniel in, then we can make the change.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He has experience coaching Outside Linebackers.

If we run a three-man front, Odell can coach the entire D-line. London can be DC and OLB coach. Hire a coach for the ILB and secondary and we still have an extra assistant position available when Bobby retires.

He coaches at his alma mater. That could be tough. There are only two reasons I could see him leaving Virginia for Richmond: he wants to coach at his alma mater or he wants to prove he can be a head coach to further his career.

Is DC at Florida State a step above head coach at Richmond in a coach’s advancement? Yes. Is DC at Florida State a step above DC at Virginia in a coach’s advancement? I think so.

But this guy seems to have always been a coach in the state of Virginia, it would probably be very tough to bring him south.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pipe dream or not, I'm starting to develop a man crush.

From the bio link FSUncensored posted:

“London broke into the coaching ranks as the outside linebackers coach and admissions liaison at Richmond (1988-89). Before going into the coaching profession full-time, he spent several years as a police officer and part-time high school coach.”

“The 46-year-old London graduated from Richmond in 1983 with a bachelor’s degree in sociology. He received a degree in law enforcement from the Richmond Police Academy in 1984. He served as a detective for the street crimes unit from 1985-87.”

There’s a disciplinarian for you.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Additionally

Giving Odell the entire D-Line might be the only thing to keep him if all of his fellow defensive coaches are let go. Give him more responsibility and one of our awesome titles and hope he stays.

How about “Super Executive Head Coach Who All the Fellows Wanna Be Like and All the Ladies Wanna Be With”?

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Differing opinions on Odell

One side believes that he is a great recruiter who had some huge misses of late and is getting back to that now. This side thinks that he’s not much in the way of player development.

The other side thinks he’s a very good developer of talent.

I’m not sure where my opinion is. Obviously he’s doing well in recruiting this year.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you were writing a coach's resume

and you included the line “Coached two first round picks and a 3rd round pick at defensive tackle” your coach would be getting a lot of job offers.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Edit

Make that 4 first round picks and a 3rd round pick.

by MattDNole on Nov 17, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's not getting it done on DT's!

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the only reason I would go to the SEC is because they have better Def. in the Big 12 people score to much. The games are shoot out. I dont think the big 10 is as good as people think. I hate the pac 10. the big east is garbage. I would like to try to steal one of these teams Def. coaches
TCU, Boise State, . This might sound crazy but I have a good reason.
TCU has held every team other than OU to under 14 points. 7 teams only scored 7 points. This team is better than I though. the hold a team to 11.0 Pts/g. TCU has a harder scedule I think
Boise St has 18 int on the season so far and 10.3pts/g

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like TCU's defense a lot.

The reason I wanted to go away from the SEC is that a lot of their offenses are very poor. Auburn, Tennessee, South Carolina, Vandy, Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi State, and I am sure I missed some.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

can you say South Carolina sucks again I want to copy that and post it at work (FT Jackson SC) Please!!!

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

While South Carolina has an excellent defense (their defense was put in a horrible position against UF), their offense is absolutely horrid.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You have anyone in mind specifically?

there have to be so many coaches out there that would kill to coach the kind of talent that we have at FSU.

by Renegade11 on Nov 17, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

defensively that is..

forgot to hit reply to FSUncensored

by Renegade11 on Nov 17, 2008 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

So where can we go

If we need to get rid of the Def coached then what all would we need. One would think Jimbo would go with not only coaches that could get the job done with what we have but with someone that can recruit people also. the qeastion would be who and for how much. With the boosters not likeing whats going on that could hurt us. I think its going to take about 4 years to get the ball rolling for us. I think we can make the next few years with 8-4 or 9-2. That would be nice but Nole fans want more. We need to get rid of
Chuck Amato – Executive Head Coach/Linebackers
Jody Allen – Defensive Ends Coach/Special Teams Coord
as for the rest MA could help/ hurt us. He is still MA and can still get his job done. but his time here is limited.
AS for Odell Haggins – Defensive Tackles Coach I think we keep this guy.
We realy need to get someone whos going to fire the team up. It funny if you think about it though. How much trouble has the D gotten into. The players that get in trouble are on Off. mostly.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Someone who can actually teach, mold his scheme to take away what the other team does best, etc.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

May catch hell for saying this but...

why not let D’vo play an entire half against Maryland? JF did make some questionable play calls during the game but for the most part it came down to execution. I understand our OL was absolutely worked the entire game but that just means you have to either roll the pocket which we did quite a bit, or get the ball out quick-something we did not do at all. He was not trusting his reads and was making poor throws-late for that matter. Ponder is such an improvement over Weatherford trust me, i was so excited that he overtook him during the offseason (although i was rooting for D’vo).

What are everyones thoughts on Ponder? In games against 1-A teams i think he has 5 TDs and 11 INTs, 8 TDs if we include rushing as well. I really like Jimbo and will trust him to make the right call but i had hoped that we would give D’vo more of a chance against ACC opponents to show what he can do. I think the upside with him is far greater than Ponder…

by Renegade11 on Nov 17, 2008 12:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll address this more later in the week, but...

There are reasons that we can’t rely on D’Vo. I won’t discuss them here, out of respect for him, but I guess you will just have to trust me.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 17, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like ponder

Who are we going to use next year. I would bet Ponder wins the start. If thats the guy we are going to use then thats the guy we give the games to. We need someone can get all the EXP he can for the next year. Its not about winning this year and I think it never was. Its all about learing. I think ponder has learned a ton and has shown he can get it done. Ponder didnt lose this game for us the D did when they couldnt stop BC. Also we need to have a guy the Off trusts. Ponder is that guy right now. Yes if he gets INT then he holds that over his head for a while but thats what we have and thats what we need to work with. If we go to another QB now then what is that saying about us. There is FSU still trying to find out who there QB is with 2 games left in the season. We need to learn as much as we can with everyone. We need to get some size on bout O and D-line teach the team to stay out of trouble. The team is hurting itself just as much as the coaches are. cheating on test and getting into fights. not showing up at classes things like thay. The team has a lot of room to grow and I think they are grown much faster this year than the rest.

by Desman on Nov 17, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think ponder is the guy & he's proven it

But he did lose this game tonight….he really struggles with zone coverage.

On the flip side D’vo would be even worse against these defenses and that’s why he’s not playing

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can we burn these jerseys?

Someone help me remember, but aren’t we 0-3 in these things?

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

1-2

(beat Duke)

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 18, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If it wasn't by more than 21 that should count as a loss too!!

by truecolors on Nov 18, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

burn them I would rather us go to the all garnet ones

by Desman on Nov 18, 2008 10:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Assesing the talent

When Jimbo came to FSU he said that he was surprised at the lack of talent that was here at the skilled positions. So it is obvious that we do not have the same caliber players that we had in the 90’s. The problem with Ponder is that he has tunnel vision and most of the time he only sees one side of the field and rarely ever goes to his 3rd read but instead checks down to the back. Also the timing on his throws has been very inconsistent, only throwing the ball when the receiver comes up open instead of anticipating the throws. And if you go back and look at the big throws he as made this season a lot of them come from at the snap of the ball starring down one receiver and then throwing him the ball, or it has been jump balls to Carr and Surrency. You can not be a great team and have a QB that is mediocre. I love his toughness and attitude I would just like to see him see the field better and anticipate his throws.

by dj2fsu on Nov 18, 2008 1:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm right there with you on the antiicpation...

but the check downs to the backs?. I just haven’t seen that very often. Do the numbers back that up? Listen to Jimbo’s press conference I posted— you might be surprised with what you hear.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the few times he has checked down

You are right he definitely does not do it often but when he is not making the throw to his first read or running, he goes straight to the back instead of coming off on a 3rd WR

by dj2fsu on Nov 18, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not seeing exactly that.

He also rarely has time to go to a 3rd wideout. You are also assuming (I think) that the back is not his 3rd progression.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 18, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Time

If he had the time to check down I think he would but I would bet Jimbo has him going to the back because he want to get the ball out insted of getting a sack. I think next year we will see him checking off bettter when the O-line is stronger.

by Desman on Nov 19, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Trust...

How many times has Jimbo said that a receiver ran the wrong route on an interception? Maybe it’s too much to ask for anticipation right now. Uncensored…how well do you know the playbook at this point? Can you corroborate how often are receivers misrunning routes? Maybe that is a statistic to look at to define our success factors.

by Weasie on Nov 18, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Weasie,

the problem with saying when receivers run wrong routes lies in knowing what the correct (or intended) route was.

There are some times where I can say with confidence that a guy ran the wrong route. On the pick-6, Jimbo said the wideout didn’t run his route flat enough, but that the pick was on Christian.

I think i know the playbook decently, and I know what we usually run from a specific formation. I am nowhere close, however, to being able to chart out each wideout on the basis of route running. Not only would this be incredibly time consuming, but the view on the DVR doesn’t always show each receiver.

We have had some obvious mistakes not turn into disaster— such as the 2 outside wideouts in a trip set running curls to the same side. (You want to umbrella this, not double P it). Does that make sense? We’ve also had trouble maintaining spacing on parallel deep in routes at times (we saw this in the Colorado game).

Jimbo seemed to be disappointed with Carr in his presser. Throwing with anticipation into zone coverage is often an exercise in practice and precision; but it is also about protection. If you’re being hit, or having to reset your feet, you might not be able to throw perfectly in rhythm. I will say that Herbstreit was WRONG when he pointed out the late throw. There were plenty of late throws, but that wasn’t a good one to point out. A linebacker was leaping when CP7 went to throw at first, and he had to double pump so that the ball wouldn’t be batted down.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 18, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I understand that it would be extremely difficult to figure out what the correct route was.

I was referring more to obvious ones. You can tell sometimes when a QB throws a ball one way and the receiver breaks the other or when there is no one around. Will we abandon downfield route schemes in these next two games to protect against teams sitting back on us? It seems like we don’t have time to do it anyway unless we roll the pocket and when you do that you’re limiting yourself to one side of the field most of the time.

I won’t ever question Jimbo’s play calling because I have no clue what I’m talking about half the time, but it didn’t look like we were opening anything up against B.C. I think he tried to say that he wasn’t able to build anything because we didn’t have the ball alot. I guess I’ll wait for your play analysis later in the week, but I dont understand why we just didnt do the same thing to them that they were doing to us. Run the same plays that work until they adjust to stop them. The little dump throws and bubbles seemed to be there for a good 4-6 yards each time. I understand the necessity for getting big chunks of yards when you’re down, but I think it was apparent that they were trying to make sure we had the ball as little as possible. Why were we throwing anything dangerous. I was having flashbacks to the Wake game.

by Weasie on Nov 18, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs