Been thinking ....
.... about Saturday.
I read where Mickey Andrews said the main problems were effort and intensity. I find this explanation to be lacking and, frankly, a little scary.
The quarterback was not running free on the zone read because of effort and intensity. It's because our scheme was lacking and our discipline was pathetic.
Did Ga. Tech RB run straight off guard, untouched, because of effort and intensity?
Here's my real big, fat fear: We are exactly in the same place on defense right now as we were on offense 3 or 4 years ago. But everybody knows MA won't go until Bowden goes and I'm not so sure we're as close to that as some people think/wish.

Bowden's hero was Bear Bryant and when he was done with football, he was done with life -- literally. I'm sure Bowden fears the same thing -- I would.
For the first time with our offense, I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
1) We have a QB who gets it. He has much improvemient ahead, but he gets it.
2) We have skill players galore
3) We have an O-line that is tough. They're small, but they'll grow -- not just through Tricket's Marine tactics, but remember, 20 year olds are simply bigger than 18 year olds. They will grow.
4) Most important, we have a scheme that makes sense. We are at least WITH the times and maybe even a little ahead of the times in terms of getting the ball to players in space, etc.
On defense, though, we trail ... badly. Our blitz scheme seems archaic (when's the last time we successfully brought a corner on a blitz?) We obviously have a glaring weakness at DT. Our CB's are vulnerable to the deep ball (like they have been under MA since the forward pass was invented).
And, most importantly ANY GIMMICK -- option, zone read, spread passing game, emphasis on the TE, -- ANYTHING that is something other than straight I formation, pro-style offense, we struggle to stop.
Finally, there is the product of the disjointed bureaucracy otherwise known as our football coaching org. chart.
Who is the boss? You might scoff at that and say: Of course, it's Bowden. He's the "CEO"
Look, I'm a poor man's CEO and I sure as hell decide who will be "starting" as my department heads every week. I don't say-- "go ask my No. 2 guy, he'll tell you who is going to lead that department."
It is a DYSFUNCTIONAL setup. Organizational structures exist for a reason. Trickett of all people would understand this, coming from the military. People need a BOSS.They need a chain of command. They need to know who is going to chew their ass when they screw up. They need to know who is invested in their success.
There is a political philosophy known as the "tragedy of the commons." Basically it says: If one person owns something, it is much more likely to be taken care of than if many people own something."
This makes sense if you think about litter. Where are you more likely to see litter, in somebody's front yard or in a culvert located on a public right of way? The culvert, of course, because every in town owns 1/100,000th of it.
Well, the same is true in an organization, the more you diffuse and disperse responsibility, the less people actually FEEL that responsibility.
In the news business, I always laugh when editors boast: We have 7 people edit each story.
Well, you know what the first editor says? 'I don't have to pay much attention to this, there are 6 more sets of eyes coming behind me." And the 7th edtior says: "This must be right, 6 other people have already read it!"
These players need ONE leader and these coaches need ONE leader so that responsibility is focused and sharp.
The final thing I read is about Jimbo and Ponder saying that we let down after hearing that Wake had lost.
ONE, STRONG, TRUE leader would never allow that to happen.
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Comments
After the UF game last year I realized Mickey has officially lost touch. In the back of my mind I was hoping that last year’s defense was a fluke because Mickey was dealing with health issues – physically and mentally – but there’s been zero improvement. If offensive coordinators do exactly what BC coach Jagoff did by basing the gameplan on misdirection, we would be a sub-.500 team. Luckily there’s offensive coordinators out there who are just as stubborn as Mickey and want to beat us with a pro-style offense. The biggest bonehead offensive coordinator we’ve played this year has to be Patrick Nix. The only two big plays Miami had in that game were those two trick plays. If he had any sense he would’ve done that the entire game.
The Fridge’s offense used to be the anti-Mickey offense, but I believe he’s turned over the play-calling and they now run the west coast offense, which could work to our advantage. Let’s just hope they don’t want game film of our defense.
by mp212121 on
Nov 17, 2008 6:12 PM EST
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I'm afraid you can forget about Maryland not running misdirection.
They run Heyward-Bey on end arounds and fake end arounds like they’re going out of style. They also run a lot of play-action bootleg plays.
FSUed is 100% correct to say that the defense is exactly where the offense was 4 years ago. Right down to blaming the players for weaknesses in the scheme.
Wake Forest 30-0 changed us back then. What’s gonna happen when Tebow and Harvin/Demps/Rainey run the zone read 54 consecutive plays on us?
by MattDNole on
Nov 17, 2008 6:19 PM EST
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Yeah, I figure Maryland will run misdirection versus us ad nauseum, but frankly I haven’t watched much of them this year. I guess I’m just holding out some kind of hope.
by mp212121 on
Nov 17, 2008 6:28 PM EST
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when Tebow runs it 54 times they will get 54 TD because If we couldnt stop BC how the hell could we dream of stoping Superman
by Desman on
Nov 17, 2008 6:48 PM EST
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Intensity
I need some clarification on this because I can’t allow myself to think Mickey Andrews is this stupid.
When he said “intensity” did he mean that the defense wasn’t “intense” enough?
Dumb pass interference calls, a guy Grammatica-ing himself out of his senior season, and a game-clinching personal foul for punching an opponent and they needed to be more “intense”?!
I have no idea how to get them more “intense” than that. Maybe film sessions can be dedicated to watching the torture scenes in Missing In Action or something from A Clockwork Orange.
by MattDNole on
Nov 17, 2008 6:29 PM EST
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McClure Grammatica-ing himself out of his senior season might be the best thing going for our defense now.
by mp212121 on
Nov 17, 2008 6:37 PM EST
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I could be worst
WE could have an idiot working with the DE and a retard with the LB. Idont think Micky is 100% in the wrong but he need to learn some Humility. Anyone remember the movie Remember the Titins When one coach has problems the other help out. If MA needs help JIMBO is there. I bet he could help seeing he knows a lot about how to beat Def for a living. Thats why we got him right.
by Desman on
Nov 17, 2008 6:52 PM EST
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haha, some would argue that we DO have an itiot coaching with the DE's and a retard coaching the LB's.
I will not go that far, but I will say that many don’t think highly of those two.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 17, 2008 6:58 PM EST
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I was saying that as a joke because I know you didnt like them all that much
by Desman on
Nov 17, 2008 7:06 PM EST
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I think I got it!
Many years ago… a group of boys were standing outside an Ihop or Denny’s and out walked coach Bowden and Mickey Andrews and Chuck Amato, following me here? Anyway, the boys were working a rubik’s cube and eating taffy when one of them asked for an autograph. Bobby, well… he was old even back then, couldn’t understand the boy and patted him on the head and said good luck in the Special Olympics. Chuck gave the boys a smile and thumbs up, and Mickey handed them his cup of cold coffee. This angered the boys and they swore to grow up and use Al Gore’s invention (internet) to hound and hassle these men until their dying days.
by wolffbird7 on
Nov 17, 2008 7:13 PM EST
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That was good.
The only thing is… Fsued is older than you (42).
Love for Bobby cannot justify this continued ineptitude… or can it?
by FSUncensored on
Nov 17, 2008 7:19 PM EST
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Yup.
We’re hounding and hassling.
Coach Bowden, Mickey, Chuck,
If you’re reading this, then you know that our master plan to get back at you for the cold coffee and the Special Olympics blast has worked. Victory is ours. We got you, yup yup we did. Too bad wolf blew our cover. Now, on to more important issues. Perhaps if you didn’t spend your time reading these types of websites you could actually put together a cohesive gameplan week in and week out. So I guess it’s you who are playing the joke on us. Well played.
Sincerely,
Taffy Kid
by MattDNole on
Nov 17, 2008 7:21 PM EST
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It’s nothing personal. It’s just business.
by mp212121 on
Nov 17, 2008 8:28 PM EST
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how about trying to avoid
ad hominem arguments, and instead address the substance of the post?
by andy_wooster on
Nov 18, 2008 12:01 AM EST
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The systemic deficiencies of Mickey do not stop at scheme...there's also..
Recruiting. It’s 50/50 in college football, and this is half the game. I think that the systemic problems we have been chronically suffering from in the secondary are, in addition to lack of schematic diversity, creativity, and fundamental technique, also attributed to some serious square peg in round hole recruiting.
Take these previous two classes, for example. We have a prototypical FS prospect. 6’1, 200 lbs, runs a 4.4. Hits hard, has flexible hips. What do we do with Harley? Convert him into a CB, of course. Haven’t we seen this before? Ahem, Jamie Robinson. Lets let Harley “start off at corner” like Jamie did, and eventually realize that Oh! he shoulda played FS all along. Too late, he’s got one year left to learn, experiment, error, and improve. All in a year.
Myron isn’t a deep safety. He’s a 4th LB. He’s good enough in coverage to take a TE or back, and good enough at hitting to play up. But not exceptional enough in either to be a LB or a Safety. He’s the perfect tweener, the guys NFL scouts go crazy for. Scouts love his diversity, and will have enough schematic creativity to implement him correctly. Something lacking in our defense.
I fear that same blunder is gonna repeat itself in Moody.
We recruit safeties and make them play corner. Then we recruit linebackers and make them play safety. We skip out on true corners citing lack of size or speed (*cough Alphonso Smith) or Janoris Jenkins (happens to be starting for UF freshman year)
The recruiting there just isn’t efficient or smooth. There’s no consistency. He’s searching for that next athletic freek, that next Cro or Deion, that makes his defense work. In the process, he skips over real football players, that when coached and implemented in a creative, cohesive scheme, give you WAKE or BC or VT.
by CaStauch on
Nov 17, 2008 9:28 PM EST
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Harley
I think he will play corner here because we just don’t have another choice. We’re not going to be able to get Branden Smith or Dre Kirkpatrick right now, McGee has committed elsewhere, and we HAVE to have a good CB in this class.
You’re right about how we use our players, though. I think we’ve muddled our safeties responsibilities of late due to a lack of talent at the position. Kyler Hall started for this team for goodness’ sake.
If you think Harley should stay at safety, what do you feel about Downs? If we were able to get Starling, your safety class would look pretty dadgum solid, but we wouldn’t have the corners we need.
by MattDNole on
Nov 17, 2008 11:01 PM EST
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A really good poster on the rivals FSU site (is TomahawkNation as anal with regards to reference to competing websites as they are?) believes Downs has the potential to be a very special player on defense. An immediate impact type of guy. He’d be very good at WR as well. The question with him is, where is he going to have the most relative impact? That is, the biggest contribution with regards to the team and his position? I think it’s safety.
With the propensity that Jimbo has shown to rotate WRs in and out, and the players we’ve recruited there that would fit Downs’ mold (an outside guy) he would definitely make an impact, but it would be lessoned by all the other guys also making an impact. Like Haulstead, who was Dawsey and Jimbo’s #1 target at WR. Or Rodney Smith, who’s underrated and could be a better Carr. And Xavier Rhodes, who has a great frame and a good high school pedigree (Dwayne Bowe). Not to mention the players currently on the team. Commack, Fortson, Gehres…
At Safety, it would be him, Harley (I hope) and Starling (please please please). I have no confidence in any of our returning safeties, assuming Parks stays at corner (he’s got the hips, just has to work through the stiffness).
So we’d look a lot like Texas does now. 3 or 4 very good prospects. Harley at FS, Starling naturally at SS (but more of a true SS, not this proto half LB half safety thing that the rover at FSU has become) and Downs at either. We have depth and competition. Downs has a more expedient route to playing time there, and a more direct influence on the game (there are only two safeties, while we play 3 and 4 wide a lot of the time)
Now, you add Brinson back at Corner (who is a Janoris Jenkins clone), Terrance Parks, Allen, PRob—more than likely coming back, especially after last night’s flag fest on national TV, maybe Xavier Rhodes, AJ Alexander (some report he’s got the hips and flexibility to play corner, we know he has the speed)
Texas and UF have shown that you don’t necessarily need tons of experience on defense, due to the nature of how a good defense is played..as a cohesive unit. You mask the deficicincies and accentuate the strengths with creative scheme, instead of expecting perfect play to make your vanilla man to man or all out blitz or outside technique when the other team has thrown slants while you vacate the middle….ugh
If we get a good DC, a DC that is a coach and schemer first, not a recruiter, we’ll be fine. But we don’t have much time. With each passing year, we become less and less FSU in the eyes of potential recruits. If that image is any more tarnished, we’re going to be forced to sell out and go for recruiters before coaches, and we’ve seen how that works out (Clemson)
by CaStauch on
Nov 17, 2008 11:40 PM EST
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I could swear I heard....
That Downs really, really, doesn’t wanna play D in college. But I could be wrong.
by pbysh on
Nov 18, 2008 12:01 AM EST
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I’m fine with references to Rivals. We just can’t copy and paste full articles, as it could be construed as a fair use violation. You’ll learn more about that in law school.
Is it safe to assume that we will keep Haulstead? My fear is that Downs fails to qualify and Haulstead will switch his commitment. I do agree with playing Downs at safety if he can contribute earlier in that capacity.
I’ll throw a name out that everyone will certainly attack me for: Lonnie Pryor.
He isn’t an especially decisive runner; lacks a great feel for finding cutback lanes. His high-cut frame hinders his pick-and-slide quickness through traffic. Could struggle in a zone-heavy college rushing scheme. Lacks a consistent burst through traffic or acceleration at the second level; he’s basically a one-gear back. He also shows the range, instincts and run-support skills to have a future safety._ESPN.COM
If JT and Pressley (highly questionable) can shoulder the load at running back, I will support moving Lonnie to Pryor.
Good thoughts. Did you get my e-mail?
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:08 AM EST
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Doesn't ESPN just have one guy running the whole operation?
I don’t think they personally evaluate every recruit. I generally trust Rivals’ rankings more than the WWL. I know Pryor doesn’t play in the toughest classification, but he is having a monster year.
Haulstead sounds fairly solid at this point. Didn’t seem blown away by Michigan.
by andy_wooster on
Nov 18, 2008 12:17 AM EST
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I just find it odd that they mention lack of cutback ability, his indecisiveness, and specifically mention that he won't hold up in a zone scheme.
They’re basically saying “He needs a fullback and a designated hole.”
Personally, I hope that Jimbo does a better job of emphasizing the cutback, and that our OLine beging to cut backside a lot more. Our running game would go to a whole new level if we could start to cutback.
I’m unsure on the WWL stuff. I think they’ve added people.
Let’s hope Haulstead stays then. Let’s also hope he keeps his head on straight.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:22 AM EST
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one good thing about ESPN
at least they provide scouting reports like the one you cited for Pryor. I wish Rivals would do a little more in that area.
And wasn’t ESPN spot-on about Jermaine Thomas? I think they had him in their top 50 while he was a 3* on Rivals. Maybe they are correct about Pryor, I just don’t want them to be.
by andy_wooster on
Nov 18, 2008 12:30 AM EST
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They had Jermaine in their all-star game.
I always feel that the best method is an aggregate of rivals, espn, and scout.
They are really high on Gerald Demps as a defensive back.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:32 AM EST
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Pryor
To CB I presume.
Of course you’ll have fans that will only look at his rushing numbers and not realize that he may not necessarily fit our system (if the WWL’s take is accurate).
With Jermaine, Tavarres, and hopefully Ty we could possibly be ok next season. We could add running back depth in the 2010 class or look to British Footman.
I see one of two futures for Chris Thompson. Slot receiver or perhaps what we thought we had in Brandon Paul.
by MattDNole on
Nov 18, 2008 8:18 AM EST
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Pryor to Safety, not corner
I don’t think he has the recovery speed to play corner.
Chris Thompson could be our Westbrook— line him up all over the place, catch some bubbles, etc.
We’re fine at RB in my opinion.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:09 PM EST
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so why dont we go after CB any more I see in the 2010 class they are trying to get like 12 of them I know most will go to other schools, also there is like only on that is 6’0 the rest are from 5’8 – 5’10 thats kinda small for a CB wouldnt it when you have WR that are 6-4 – 6-6.
Where is a good website to go to other than ESPN recruit tracker to find out more about where they want to go and who they are considering.
by Desman on
Nov 18, 2008 10:55 AM EST
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I think if you click on a player's name, it will show where they are coinsidering at this link
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/prosearch.asp
I’m fine with short corners if they are coached well, but Mickey and co. have not coached them well, so I totally see your point.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:12 PM EST
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A few responses
No matter how good the recruits are, under this particular coaching staff Jamie Robinson is going to be your starting FS and Nick Moody will be your starting SS next season. I happen to agree with you about Moody and linebacker. If Patrick comes back, he and Mangum are your starting corners… maybe Jenije. That’s just how this staff operates (that’s what she said).
One thing’s for sure, the safety position would be set for several years to come. Robinson can ease Harley’s learning curve assuming he doesn’t get moved. Hopefully Downs or Starling (my must-have in this class) can step in at strong safety and play a significant role. ESPN is VERY high on Demps and he can hit the rotation early as well. Justin Bright, if we keep him, will add some depth to the position in future years.
I think we end up moving Rhodes to corner. I tend to agree with FSUncensored about our chances with Sanders and I’d feel great with a WR class of Haulstead, Smith, and Sanders.
I had forgotten about Brinson graduating JUCO this year. Is he expected to be a part of our class?
by MattDNole on
Nov 18, 2008 8:37 AM EST
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not the tragedy of the commons
I don’t think this is a case of the tragedy of the commons. I’ll bet Jimbo would love to take full responsibility if he could. The problem is that we have one CEO, and he’s a bad one.
by andy_wooster on
Nov 18, 2008 12:10 AM EST
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The kids look to Jimbo for leadership, but he doesn't have the full authority to lead. That authority is granted by the administration.
Also, VT DC Bud Foster to Clemson, pretty sure.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:12 AM EST
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maybe a better metaphor would be
too many cooks spoil the broth, or whatever that one is.
But it’s really just two cooks, and the best cook in the restaurant can’t cook a meal the way he wants to because the Head Cook insists in having his hand in every meal. Also, the Head Cook is in charge of hiring the wait staff, and that staff is driving away customers because they keep spilling gravy on the patrons.
Interesting about Foster. I wonder how much VPI will fall now. Foster has always been given a lot of credit for their success. I don’t really have a feel for how he’ll be as a HC.
by andy_wooster on
Nov 18, 2008 12:26 AM EST
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Good article
Totally agree with the org chart from hell – asst head coach, executive head coach, head coach in waiting, head coach in waiting room, …etc.
I fear that if the plug isn’t pulled on Bobby soon, we may loose Jimbo – and that would be a complete disatser. Bobby’s stubborness in retaining Jeff as O uncoordinator, really hurt this program. Who the heck wants to come to a place that runs 2 plays (middle dive and ally oop pass). Jimbo has made a terrific impact in a short time.
He needs to be the big cheese. We need a head coach and not a figurehead. Time to turn the page and move forward.
by OGN on
Nov 18, 2008 8:56 AM EST
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Agree with the article
Especially the gimmick part, I have been saying that for the longest now. We always struggle against it.
by ChileanNole on
Nov 18, 2008 10:24 AM EST
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The HC job
Isnt the head coach job at FSU like one of the best jobs to have. I was under the imprestion that it was like Michigan, UF, Ohio St, USC and those schools. I would think Jimbo would wait for it becaues hes not going to get a better job than FSU. Wouldnt the FSU HC job have the best chance to get him to the NC one day. I mean that why hes doing it.
by Desman on
Nov 18, 2008 11:03 AM EST
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I think it's in the top 10
In no order:
USC
ND
TEX
OU
MICHIGAN
OSU
PSU
BAMA
LSU
UF
FSU
UGA
The programs like Tennessee, Auburn, Texas A&M, Oregon, UCLA, etc are debatable.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 12:05 PM EST
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That sounds about right
But even the best programs fail without good coaching. I know Uncensored you remember Bama pre-Saban, but what about Southern Cal before Pete Carroll arrived? It was a wasteland.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on
Nov 18, 2008 1:04 PM EST
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Thats what I thought because we are still in the top 10 I dont see Jimbo leaving us to go to another school because this job in 5 years would be better than one opening up within the next 2 years. It would be a down grade.
by Desman on
Nov 18, 2008 12:44 PM EST
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But ...
… while I see your logic Desman, I wonder if it’s more complicated.
If I were Jimbo, I’d be going through these scenarios:
1) Bowden hangs on for a few years, the program falls further and soon, I, Jimbo, am associated with this decline, even though all I could really control was the offense, not the overall management of the program.
2) Bowden hangs on for a few years and while I gradually improve the win-loss totals, the continued lack of strong leadership leads to more discipline problems and my name is sullied when FSU ends up going probation.
3) I can make the same money NOW that I have to wait X years to make when they finally make me head coach at FSU.
I’ve seen lots of people in business take the NOW over the LATER, especially when it results in immediate financial improvement. I always preach against that but I understand how/why people choose to do that.
I don’t think it’s a lock we hang on to JF, esp. if Bowden is crumudgeonly about when/how he leaves.
by Fsued on
Nov 18, 2008 1:47 PM EST
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To add to your point
If Bobby stays on for anything more than another year, this program could easily fall into or below the group containing Tennessee, UCLA, Texas A&M, etc.
Let’s hope Jimbo grabs the reigns… somehow.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 18, 2008 1:51 PM EST
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