Bowden pre-game speech

by Fsued on Nov 19, 2008 5:09 PM EST Comment 79 comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIn17ufE7ZM

I saw this linked in a thread on www.Warchant.com

It has been about an hour since I watched it.

I watched it about 5 times.

It evokes a number of thoughts an emotions in me.

It is .....

... painful

...revealing

...a little shocking

I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill here, but ....

Well, first, you should all know where I'm coming from with regards to Bobby Bowden.

I was a child of the 70s and 80s. My first FSU-Florida game was when we got killed in 1974 -- 42-14 or something like that.

Then came Bowden in 1976 and everything changed. I remember the "Beginning with Bowden" bumper stickers. (Soon thereafter, the Gators came up with "Give em hell Pell" bumper stickers. After Pell's struggles on and off the field, a Seminole fan came up with "Hell, give 'em Pell!).

Anyway, I can't possibly explain to you what is was like to witness the birth of the program. And at the center of it all was Bowden. He was as quick-witted a person as you'd ever talk to. As a play-caller, I've never seen a coach so fearless. He would run any play at any time from any place on the field.

We were out-athleted in so many games back then but still scored points like crazy. You may not know that Bowden installed the option in the early 80s for Kelly Lowery and, to a lesser extent, Eric Thomas. He would run 5 or 6 reverses a game.

Some coaches innovate over a matter of years, he would innovate multiple times during a SEASON.

Almost as important, he advocated for the program by barnstorming the state and feeding funny lines to a fan base voraciously craving any morsel they could find.

And the Gators! Oh, it was more than they could handle. You've got to understand, there was no "cycle" of winning and losing back then. We were Rice and they were Texas. We were Tulsa and they were OU. We were San Diego St. and they were USC.

Can imagine what it would be like to be a Tulsa fan and have your program CATCH and then PASS Oklahama on the national scene. And then can you imagine what it would be like to be an Oklahoma fan when that happened?

It was ugly and beautiful at the same time.

Now, here's the reality - if Bowden hadn't come to FSU, we could still be San Diego State. That's a good example because it's a good school in a talent-rich state with lots of things going for it -- that doesn't guarantee your program is great,.

So, that brings me back to this video.

I can't have more respect for what Coach Bowden has done for the program. But I find this video to be the equivalent of that clip when Nancy Reagan is whispering the right answers to then-President Reagan late in his second term.

Again, I don't want to overstate things or be melodramatic, but for me personally, seeing that pitiful attempt at a pre-game speech tells me it's time for me to let go of all the history, all of my great memories ... of my recognition that without Bobby Bowden, this blog might not even exist.

It's time for me to let go of all of that and say this:

It's time for Coach Bowden to retire.

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Comments

Fsued,

I know this has to be hard for you to say. I think it speaks volumes that people who’ve been here throughout Coach Bowden’s tenure are now saying this. He deserves a celebration when he does go, and I hope he gets it while he is still healthy enough to fully enjoy it.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 19, 2008 5:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that was actually more enthusiastic than I imagined. He shouldn’t even give pregame speeches, only for the big ones. That way the players would actually pay attention. “Wow, Bowden is giving the pregame speech before UF…what an honor…let’s win it for him!”

It’s not a coincidence we always come out flat. Miami might be the only game this year where we game out of the gates hot.

Jimbo has been in many locker room speeches with Saban, so he should know what it takes when it’s his turn. Or he could be like Urban Meyer and have a guest motivational speaker of the week for the pregame, as lame as that really is, apparently it works.

by mp212121 on Nov 19, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Discipline

Denich just said she talked to a major from FSUPD and that there have been no charges made yet but that there would be some coming. Bowden said that the susended players involved have paid their price and will all play this week.

“”http://myespn.go.com/blogs/acc" target="new">Oh, I’ll play ‘em," he said. "They’ve had their punishment."

by TBfisherman on Nov 19, 2008 6:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We'll see what happens. I don't have any moles inside FSUPD.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 19, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any idea of what kind of notes Bobby had?

And does he really need any notes? Obviously, this was a tiny sample of the pregame speech. I would like to see how he ended it. He said the right word…execution. Too bad it didn’t happen as well as we had hoped for.

by TrueCubbie on Nov 19, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

God loves Bobby

by Desman on Nov 19, 2008 7:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It’s kind of like hearing your Grandfather’s Thanksgiving toast after he’s had one too many gin and tonics. I love this man to death but….. that was pitiful.

by jds07d on Nov 19, 2008 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Now I see why we play with so much focus and intensity.

That’s sarcasm.

by Dent Street Nole on Nov 19, 2008 8:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

anyone else impressed bobby is still giving pre-game speeches?

by walkoffwalk on Nov 19, 2008 9:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Count me as one. I thought for sure all public speaking had been delegated to an executive head coach or head coach in waiting or administrative head coach or honorary head coach or…

by rfday53 on Nov 19, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's cool that he does, but as another poster stated, the players obviously are not inspired.

Maybe having him do it for Miami and UF only would work.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 19, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

5 years ago

That would have been like seeing Superman without his cape.

Now, it’s pretty much what I’d expect.

by MattDNole on Nov 19, 2008 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So Bowden needs to go because he gave a less than riveting pre-game speach?

by FSUvaFan on Nov 19, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He needs to go because he's no longer an effective coach and is hindering our efforts to climb back to where he had us before

he made a series of ill-advised and selfish decisions that brought our program down.

When no other program would take your head coach, and you’re paying that coach a sizable amount of money, you have problems.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 19, 2008 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What if BB left the HC job

would he be done with CF or do you think we might try to help recruit at least. Im betting he would be done and hate life.

by Desman on Nov 20, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's no longer an amazing recruiter. Keep in mind that

the kids he is currently recruiting were only nine years old the last time we won the National Championship.

Let’s hope he wouldn’t hate life. He has his wife, children, a huge set of grand kids, and his friends as well.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What "selfish" decisions did he make?

You don’t think he didn’t try to make decisions that was in the best interest of everyone? I agree that hes not effective as he once was, but please (and I’m not trying to make this an angry conversation) let me know why you think he made selfish decisions. Jeff, I think, was just a bad move and not an intentional screw you to the fans and program.

by FSUvaFan on Nov 20, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The initial hiring was not necessarily selfish and I won't accuse him of such. The actions afterwards were.

Truecubbie had a better answer (below).

Bowden was told not to hire his son. It was illegal. He made threats and ultimatums and the rule was contracted around. His son was a complete and total failure from a coaching standpoint and the hire also destroyed the leadership dynamic on the team. Calling your boss “diddy” while on the job doesn’t work. Bowden repeatedly said he knew what was wrong and that he would fix it. He was wrong on both counts.

I think his pride was wounded in the Jeff thing. He never criticized him and still will not acknowledge the complete and total failure. In no way am I accusing him of doing an intentional screw you to the fans and program. I do think he backed himself into an untennable spot and didn’t know how to get out.

I would compare Bowden to a great parks and rec director who came to Florida years ago. He found wide open land for the county, crafted his plan, built the parks, and made the place a great attraction. Now, if he began to fail and the parks began to crumble, and he repeatedly attempted to fix the parks, yet could not, would anyone argue that “he deserved to ride it out for however long he wants at a huge salary?” Of course not.

Despite our love for Bobby, he must go. We love FSU more (I hope. I want to believe that). He is now hurting the program more than he is helping. He didn’t even know if our starting left tackle practiced with the first team today in practice. We must make the change to get better. If we don’t, I won’t do my season tickets next year and I know others who will not give their booster contributions as well.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I will concede here

Fortunately we can all still love Bobby Bowden AND hope he goes before the program suffers any more damage. If it was one of the other I would take Bobby, honestly (assuming no other LIVES/Careers are damaged in the matter—-see below—had to add this on after reflecting for a bit).

Your right, and another side that I didn’t think about is how there are other coaches and players careers at stake, so its not like he shouldn’t be also accountable to anyone. He realizes he is though from his comments that “[if we dont win more games then I can’t stay]” but he doesn’t have an outside perspective which is desperately needed.

To me it seems like his mentality right now is: everyone should have more patience because 7-6 seasons aren’t that bad and we can turn it around with me on board. But what is missed in that logic is the opportunity cost that we are foregoing, which is the chance to be dominant.

by FSUvaFan on Nov 20, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry for the bad writing, just typing inbetween studying here.

its not like he shouldn’t be accountable to anyone

by FSUvaFan on Nov 20, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, exam prepping here as well.

I’m glad you and others are here to offer the alternative viewpoints.

Are you an econ grad student?

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Accounting Grad

I’m an Accounting Grad student. In Virginia you need 150 credit hours to be eligible for CPA license. Thanks for asking. Yourself?

by FSUvaFan on Nov 21, 2008 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Saw the opportunity cost reference.

Law here. 3 semesters left after exame.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clarification...

FSUva…don’t get us wrong…and I apologize in advance if I put words in anyone’s mouth…but I think we all “love” Bobby Bowden and what he stands for, what he has done for our program and the legacy that he has created. However, I think the tank is empty. He is an amazing ambassador for college football and for FSU and I want him to have an honorable finish to his career. It is time for the next Bobby Bowden, the next chapter in FSU football. Jimbo needs to take the reigns and get this thing going again. I love Bobby…but look at the players in the pre-game speech…they’re uninterested….this speech isn’t why it’s time…it just is…he’s done everything he can for FSU football an the university as a whole…

by TrueCubbie on Nov 19, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with this

Can somebody provide a short summary of the speech. I’m at work and youtube is blocked here.

by ChileanNole on Nov 20, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's just... uninspiring.

reading off a paper…

defense play with intensity

qb make good handoffs of the ball

receivers catching the ball

bc comes to our house, we must fight, we must execute

the delivery is what really does it (or rather doesn’t do it)

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If our guys can't motivate themselves

They don’t deserve to be playing college football. Pre-game speeches and half-time speeches are overrated. They get people pumped, but the first time you take a hit, its all out the window. Motivation is not a pre-game or a half-time thing. It is about players buying into what you are doing. You can argue that players aren’t, which is a separate argument, but It’s not time for Bowden to retire simply because he reads off a sheet of paper. I think if you ask anyone on that team if Bowden inspires them, they would tell you differently.

We can talk about Bowden not being a great recruiter, I think people still want to be around a ‘legend.’ You also have talked extensively about dumping def. coaches. Heres what I would say to that. We have had a top 10 defense year in and year out. Every year we replace talent with talent. A lot of times players will disappoint, but find me one program who doesn’t have players who don’t live up to their recruiting potential. You can’t. Also, if you dump Amato you sacrifice recrutiting in South Florida. High Schools send athletes to schools they have relationships with. The 10 or 20 guys that get the most publicity will decide for themselves, but the better relationship a school has with a h.s coach, the more players they will consistently send. I have a friend who is a head coach in an Orlando area school. Trickett has started building relationships with him. He is far more likely to send a 3 star OL to FSU than he is Miami.

Look at how many players from one high school go to the same college to play ball. I think if you look, the numbers may astound you. I am not arguing that another coach can’t come in and build relationships, but you loose a couple of years. I also think to say Mickey doesn’t adjust is ignorant.

by UNFNOLE on Nov 20, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

UNF

Amato is not doing a good job of recruiting South Florida and he is a bad coach at this point. Coley is the guy dominating South Florida for us,

Do you think that Mickey’s schemes are not stale? You think he’s been able to evolve to adapt to the modern offenses? Do you think that his defensive staff is developing players?

Amato and Allen will be gone sooner than later. I think Mickey is done this year as well.

Do you really think that our defensive coaches are good coaches at this point? I’m talking about the right now, not their career body of work.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I do. We wouldn’t have a top 10 defense if we didn’t. Year in and Year out we have some of the best defensive ends, and some of the best LB’s and have pumped out more defensive talent than just about anyone into the NFL. I am not pardoning the defensive staff from criticism. I do think it can get stale at times. Your telling me he hasn’t adjusted to modern offenses? How is Boston College or Ga. Tech a “modern offense.” Miami’s was and we shut them down. I think failing against all of the misdirection is a result of coaching aggressively. No defense is without holes. Our holes consist of misdirection because we pursue the first ‘option’ too hard, or the most likely ones. A zone read is not ‘modern.’ I do agree that some of those blitzes were ill-advised and I think Mickey probably realizes that after watching game film. However, our players didn’t execute well at ALL. They were continually blown off the ball. Our defensive tackles are terrible. And our cornerbacks aren’t intelligent. Tony Carter and P-Rob all play off instinct and not intelligence. They consistently make mental errors.

I do they think are good. Not the best. But they are good. If you want to talk about coaches who need to go Coley would be at the top of my list. We can not produce a TE to save our lives and he doesn’t put high value on recruiting them either. Haggins would be 2nd on the list. I would agree that we have done a terrible job at developing DB’s though.

by UNFNOLE on Nov 20, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Coley is not going anywhere.

He has had one year to work with Caz Piurowski, and Piurowski was bouncing from tackle to tight end. Additionally, we use Caz to block all the time because of our young offensive line. How can you possibly criticize Coley for not developing a TE when he has only been here for a year? Additionally, he is our South Florida Recruiter.

Dustin Hopkins K 6-2 174 4.58 Houston, TX
Henry Orelus OL 6-2 292 5.48 Belle Glade, FL
Lonnie Pryor RB 6-1 195 4.5 11/29/2008 Okeechobee , FL
Xavier Rhodes WR 6-2 187 Miami, FL
Rodney Smith WR 6-6 202 4.7 Miami, FL
Bryan Stork TE 6-4 240 Vero Beach, FL

Under Amato’s tutelage, our linebackers have regressed. It’s laughible to a guy can be know for discipline despite having one of the most undisciplined teams year in and year out at NC State. He’ll be gone very soon and is also not doing a good job recruiting SoFla:

He’s missed on every single 2009 target so far, so I’ll have to go to 2008. Hmmm… in 2008, he MISSED all these guys:
Brandon Beachum LB 5-11 216 4.62 Youngstown, OH
Quinton Coples DE 6-7 235 4.8 12/7/2007 Chatham, VA
Marcus Forston DT 6-2 286 5 Miami, FL
Jordan Futch LB 6-3 202 4.56 Hollywood, FL
Mike Goodman OL 6-5 270 5.2 Miami, FL
Aldarius Johnson WR 6-2 200 4.45 Miami, FL
Sam Jones OL 6-6 275 1/25/2008 Chatham, VA
Corey Liuget DT 6-3 260 4.8 11/16/2007 Hialeah, FL
Leon Mackey DE 6-5 258 4.92 12/7/2007 Chatham, VA
Lerentee McCray LB 6-2 200 4.5 1/11/2008 Dunnellon, FL
Marcus Robinson LB 6-2 210 4.57 1/11/2008 Homestead, FL
Etienne Sabino LB 6-3 222 4.6 Miami, FL

Amato has not pulled a single SoFla commitment since he’s been back. He did help out on Bradham, and worked Ed Imekorpia from New Jersey.

Facts facts— he doesn’t offer us anything that a younger, smarter, cheaper, and non-standoffish linebacker coach would not.

I agree on Haggins but we must handle that carefully so that we don’t lose either of the Mc Boys.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair Enough

You know far more about this then I do. Thats why you run the blog and I comment. I was also under the assumption the Coley had been there for a while. I did not know he was a new hire.

Matt, I think your right actually. I just reasearched DT’s in the NFL vs our DE’s and there are far more. Thanks for pointing that out. I just think we are overreacting to our defensive performance. I’m not a stat guy, in fact i usually get bored with them. I don’t think stats tell the whole story. Case and point on paper we had Boston College destroyed before the game. Stats didn’t show us what it was really going to be like. I think there is always intangibles. I think the fact that we produce a top 10 defense year in and year out (I can’t find the stats on this anywhere, if anyone knows a good site, let me know) says something about our coaching staff. Are they going to get out coached at times? Yes. Nobody thinks Coughlin is a better coach the Belicheck, but he beat him. No ‘scheme’ is perfect. We aren’t going to find the perfect defensive coordinator. If we bring a virtual unknown in we are taking a HUGE risk. It has a much better chance of going from a pretty good defense every year to a bad defense than it does going from pretty good to dominant every year.

by UNFNOLE on Nov 20, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting numbers

FSU was in the top 25in the opponent adjusted pass efficiency defense rankings every year until 2003. The last 3 years: #74, 43, 50. This year: 65th.

This is on Mickey. He is the de facto defensive backs coach.

Also, we’re not producing top 10 yardage defenses anymore.
07: 42nd. That’s not even in the top 3rd.
06: 18th
05: 14th

Scoring Defenses:
08: 32nd
07: 34th
06: 37th
05: 28th

Thats in a pathetically bad offensive conference: THE ACC.

Mickey and his staff are not turning highly rated talent into top level production.

I don’t think we’re taking a huge risk. The worst the guy could do is just coattail the guy’s athleticism like we currently do. There is some chance we could get worse, but I really doubt it.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A couple of issues

Chuck Amato has had very little, probably NOTHING, to do with our LBs in the NFL. That was Kevin Steele. Defensive Ends…. help me remember somebody other than Wimbley.

You want Haggins fired. He’s the only coach on the defensive side that has actually put people into the NFL in the last 8 years.

But hey, we can always sit around and talk about the good ol days.

by MattDNole on Nov 20, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to get the Mc Twins

and keeping O’Dell is extra important because he is African American and we cannot afford to get negatively recruited again, as we did a few years ago when we lacked African American Assistants.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Was meant more in reference...

to UNF’s personal hot seat.

by MattDNole on Nov 20, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you TrueCubbie

I agree that Bobby Bowden should hand authority over to Fisher.

The most unselfish thing Bobby could do for the program, extending his legacy of making FSU great, is to let the program go and (as you astutely said) let a new chapter in FSU football come to fruition. Perhaps the same for Mickey.

by FSUvaFan on Nov 20, 2008 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read above and man this hurts

Our D was great in the 80 and 90 and has taken a step back. Is it because of this spread Off style. Also what kinda coaches can we look at to get in to fill some of the people we want to leave. I know there are 3 Def. coaches we kinda want to go and I know FSUncensored talked about the D co from Iowa. Who else could we look at. I kinda want O’Dell to stay for now. Last I was seeing that UF is rectuiting guys that are just down right fast. Its like they wont take you unless you can run at least a 4.5 and thats going for LB and DE. I have always been a fan of Speed over power but man UF is getting some damn good recruits.

by Desman on Nov 21, 2008 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess we now know why we start every game flat.

by Weasie on Nov 20, 2008 8:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wonder who took this video.....

I’ve seen this posted on a couple other FSU sites and the fact that it’s on youtube doesn’t bode well for us. Heck, if i was a recruiter i’d download that video and show to every 4 or 5 star recruit who was considering FSU.

Does anyone on here really care whether or not Bobby retires as the all time winningest coach? In my opinion, its a stupid record and not worth bringing down a program that you spent your life building from the ground up. I couldn’t tell you who is the all time touchdown leader in NCAA history, or who is the all time receiving leader. Who cares about this one. Everytime i hear someone say who is the all time winningest coach i always think of Gagliardi. And you would think as fans that we would want something like that associated with FSU, but i think the majority could care less. We want to win NOW…..

Truecubbie i think summarized the feelings of most very well…..

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It sucks this cuts off

Dustin Hoffman comes in later and starts taking pictures of Bobby’s feet as he starts to explain the Pony Express.

by Weasie on Nov 20, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

man o man

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm guessing this is a rainman reference??

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

I thought this was a football blog. If you want to start a campaign to fire FSU coaches, then let’s call it what it is. The last 7 blogs have referenced getting rid of the coaching staff. Lets get past it and start looking at Maryland. Im curious how quick you would be to fire all of them, if we don’t fumble at the one yard line. Or if Tricket was able to “ADJUST”, not be so stubborn, and block bigger Defensive tackles. Maybe at some point he could get both size, strength AND speed and not just settle for speed. Or maybe Jimbo, could have stuck with the run on the one drive the run was working. All coaches are stubborn. Look at Rich Rodriguez.

You truly are overreacting.

by UNFNOLE on Nov 20, 2008 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The pulse of this program right now is the possible changes to the defensive staff. This is a Florida State athletics blog.

I don’t want to fire most of the offensive coaches. I do think that Dexter Carter is on the block, but that’s a topic for another day.

I assume you’re being facetious in asking “why didn’t Trickett adjust?” His guys are super young and he inherited a zero talent offensive line, leaving him to mold something out of nothing. The pass to Carr in the end zone was against an 8 (almost 9) man box.

Mickey signed his own pink slip by failing to craft this crop of defensive players into an elite defense. I’ve already said that the fumble at the one yard line has not affected my thoughts in this area.

The last 7 blogs have been about more than the coaching staff. We’ve discussed playcalling, offensive balance, the passing game, Christian Ponder.

Know what is telling? Look at the jobs the dismissed offensive assistants took after their dismissal.

The administration might finally be ready to act. Boosters are angry. We were again embarrassed on national television. We’re not selling out home games. The defensive staff + Bobby are holding this program back and UF is loving it.

I’m working on some Maryland stuff. I can’t do much with it right now, though, as I await the answers to our weekly Q&A. Our own injury report is very much in the air, and we have no idea if Surrency will be arrested before the game or at all. I don’t know which wideouts will play.

We’re about moving this team towards a national championship run. In doing that, we provide analysis of the team— and that includes the coaching staff.

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't mention fumbling against GaTech!

I was chastised for doing so. GEEZ! The world as we know it is coming down around us and this board is obsessed with firing the coaching staff and running Bobby Bowden out on a rail. This thread is the most pitiful one yet. That speech was broadcast on the Bobby Bowden show, I saw it on Sun Sports Sunday morning. These punk players need a rah rah speech? I would assume Ralph Friedgen is a master speaker? Al Groh? Frank Beamer? But they are coaches. Bobby Bowden deserves more respect than this so-called fan site gives. He is paid BLAH BLAH BLAH… tired of reading that too. This school would of NEVER won 1 National title without him and his style and his talent. This team is not BAD, they are probably going 8-5, maybe 9-4 (after a bowl) my goodness… what was expected? I remember back in August when all the talk was the inexperienced and undersized O-line… they finally met their waterloo against BC. and Finally… When will these “athletes” be held accountable for their actions. They should be motivated to play and win and grow as football players. You know, if they make it to the NFL it is them and their posse’ that will reap the benefits.

by wolffbird7 on Nov 20, 2008 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wolf...

He is paid BLAH BLAH BLAH… tired of reading that too.

I’m tired of seeing someone who does nothing get paid as well. Glad we agree.

These punk players need a rah rah speech? I would assume Ralph Friedgen is a master speaker? Al Groh? Frank Beamer? But they are coaches

Those coaches are actively involved with their teams. Seriously, get real.

As TRUECUBBIE wrote:

We all "love" Bobby Bowden and what he stands for, what he has done for our program and the legacy that he has created. However, I think the tank is empty. He is an amazing ambassador for college football and for FSU and I want him to have an honorable finish to his career. It is time for the next Bobby Bowden, the next chapter in FSU football. Jimbo needs to take the reigns and get this thing going again. I love Bobby…but look at the players in the pre-game speech…they’re uninterested….this speech isn’t why it’s time…it just is…he’s done everything he can for FSU football an the university as a whole…

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by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm confused...

are you not reading what people are saying on here? i’m pretty sure that the consensus is that we appreciate and acknowledge everything that bobby has done for this program. i dont think anyone would debate that fsu would have achieved a tenth of the success that we have had without him. he has built this program from scratch and we love him for it. but i think most on here fear the consequences of allowing bobby to stick around longer than he should. bobby does bring a lot of intangibles to the table but i think the upside with his retirement is far greater than those intangibles. for example, is jimbo as good dealing with the media and alumni as bobby?? no, not even close. but in time, that will come. I dont want to see us lose out on a guy who could be a great asset to this university just because we were too stubborn to take action out of respect for a legend.

No its def not bobby’s responsibility to make sure that every single player is pumped up, but what would you think as a player when your head coach gives that speech. its a little disturbing to say the least. why is that the past five games we have come out flatter Keira Knightley? there has to be a reason, and i think that the fault rests with the coaching staff. and i think you are seeing these “athletes” as you call them being held accountable this year. and i will argue that FSU will reap the benefits if they make it to the NFL as well.

i for one love that this a no nonsense site that will talk numbers, provides detailed statistical facts, and isn’t afraid to not sugarcoat things. just because people speak openly about their team doesnt mean make them any less of a fan, in fact i’ll say that they are even bigger fans who take the time to analyze and discuss the team in a rational and intelligent fashion

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not disagreeing with that, BUT...

It makes it “nicer” to preface these rude and disrespectful comments with… we love BB for his past accomplishments… yadda yadda yadda. Everybody has a right to feel as they do. I have yet to say you or anyone else who posts is wrong. I am not involved enough to know the in’s and out’s of what happens in Tallahassee ( I am in Va) I just know that Miami got crushed last night… are people calling for heads on a platter? wait, no… Randy Shannon is NEW GENERATION and gonna make the ‘Canes a contender! BUT, as of today, and last year, Miami is no better than a team coached by a 79 yr. old who delegates authority. I also wonder how is it that coaching is to blame for some of the bone head mistakes these “athletes” make. Have they not played football since they were 6 or 7 yrs old? Are the rules not the same all the way up the ladder? holding is holding, interference is interference, punching into a pile is… you get the idea. Is the free education and idea of millions not incentive enough? Good Lord. I do not believe that Mickey Andrews and Co. tell them to cheat, just don’t get caught. These players are also living on the old FSU mystique. I really believe they have thought, up to now at least, that they come rolling into town and the women and children are locked up and the men folk are afraid. (well, maybe that is a bad example) I do know that I attend mostly away games. Winston-Salem treats FSU coming to town as a huge deal… Raleigh was buzzing, Durham always had a defeated before we arrived feel, Blacksburg treats it like the Super Bowl, etc… maybe if these players realized that THEY have accomplished nothing. At least BB and his aging hang have rings and trophies and laurels to rest on. ya think?

by wolffbird7 on Nov 21, 2008 5:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't that the coaches responsibility to get them to that level? Did

Oklahoma, USC, or Georgia suddenly get players who woke up, or did the coaches change the culture.

Our comments are not intended to be rude; they are simply truthful.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rude?

I haven’t read any rude comments.

I’m not a big fan of Straw Men.

by Fsued on Nov 21, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

man, the players look bored and uninspired by this speech. i understand why they want to give bobby as long as he wants. the school wants to be ble to say they have the all-time winningist coach

by walkoffwalk on Nov 20, 2008 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

At this point, unless he outlasts Paterno, he won't catch him.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

at this point does the school even really want that?

they have to know the potential risks that could occur if they allow him to continue to coach.

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you take 7-7 if it meant we would not have to have another season of this?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

without a doubt

would allow jimbo to clean house and a new generation of FSU football can begin. but from what i read in another thread you said jimbo might be given that authority this offseason? is that with or without BB in place?

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

With.

My HOPE is that Jimbo sweeps the other guys out, and Bobby decides he has had enough.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what happens

to the kid who holds Bobby’s headset if he leaves? you think Jimbo keeps him around?

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Incompetent and stale. Jimbo actually wear a headset. Relic of the old regime. Gone.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 20, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

maybe joepa needs someone up in the box to carry his diet coke for him

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

clever...

you all should be GM executives

by wolffbird7 on Nov 20, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

take a joke

by Renegade11 on Nov 20, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Mickey

reached his peak about the early to mid 90s

by FSUStateOfMind on Nov 20, 2008 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

chill

go back and watch the videos from “Noles in 93 Countdown to Glory” and see bobby’s speeches from then. if i remember correctly the speeches then werent exactly riveting, in fact he was reading off of notes then too. that is common practice for college coaches. i think that this is an overreaction to a poorly played game

by mbr2318 on Nov 21, 2008 12:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I have the tape

in my entertainment unit.

This is a reaction to the last 7 poor seasons, I believe.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

7 seasons?

What in the name of God is 7 seasons? I remember winning the ACC just a few years ago and we should of beat Penn State in the Orange Bowl… FIELD GOALS did us in I do believe. I swear, this is the most amazing bunch of piling on I have seen in awhile. No, I do not crunch the numbers and weigh every stat… but as i have written all week, I love Florida State with all my heart, but Bobby Bowden is a HUGE part of that love and he should not be run off like the Syracuse coach or Ty Willingham up in Washington. His time in Tallahassee should be celebrated…once he is gone it will be too late. 37 NFL players, longest consecutive bowl streak, 30+ years with a winning record… and the fact his program led other ACC schools to make football a priority, so they could compete with the mighty SEMINOLES. what have you done for me lately? sounds like the crap alot of companies do to people nearing pension time. I bet we have a few bosses on this site, seems like the same cut-throat approach to people and their value.

by wolffbird7 on Nov 21, 2008 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

37 players currently on NFL rosters... wanted to clarify

Thank You. and let’s all agree to root hard tomorrow for OUR team.

by wolffbird7 on Nov 21, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Simple question:

Are you satisfied with what this football program is right now?

Forget what happened 30 years ago. Don’t look at 37 players, take out the 20 who were here before Jeff Bowden was hired, and count 17 players in the NFL.

Up until now I thought we could disagree cordially, but you continue to act like anyone who doesn’t agree with you must not be a Seminole fan and it’s starting to wear thin.

So if you would, please answer my question: Are you satisfied TODAY?

by MattDNole on Nov 21, 2008 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

*Edit the previous post

20 players who were here before Jeff Bowden was promoted.

by MattDNole on Nov 21, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't want to wear it thin...

I have not made a personal attack on anybody or said that anyone was wrong in their belief. I have commented on things that seem harsh, or an overreaction to things. In fact, the last 4 comments have been when somebody else mentions stuff like the GaTech loss, Bobby’s legacy, overreacting to BC game, etc… I admit, I am not a stat man who can quote trends and such. I admire those who do (really) But, I have strong feelings towards BB and to a lesser degree Mickey and Chuck. If I am not allowed a posting to say this, ban me. When did I say that not agreeing with me was equal to not being a fan? I think I could say the same to you and a couple others. I enjoy sharing thoughts and ideas and asking questions. I just get the idea if this was in a “live” setting I would be getting yelled over and attempted to be made feel stupid. I think a couple days ago my “football intelligence” was questioned because I did not agree. Ok, fine. You win! FIRE BOBBY! hmmmm… well, ahhhh… waiting. nope. hasn’t happened. FSU was not waiting for my approval. Sooooo… we are here on a message board saying what we feel. If I am a nuisance, please… ban me.

by wolffbird7 on Nov 21, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright

We will agree to disagree then. I respect your love for Coach Bowden. I love what he has done as well. And I realize it’s not a flippant thing when you’re talking about someone’s livelihood.

I guess I assumed sarcasm in the second part of your previous post, my bad.

I personally feel there is a difference between respecting a coach and his accomplishments, and thinking he is untouchable when he is underperforming.

Please, I’m not trying to have anybody “banned.” I think we just passionately disagree, and that’s allowed as far as I know.

by MattDNole on Nov 21, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm very reluctant to ban anyone.

If you want to be here and enjoy discussing the Noles, you’re welcome here.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to Tomahawk Nation

Do you think Bowden should stick around?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

After further review

You know what that speech needed? Poker chips.

by MattDNole on Nov 21, 2008 7:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

how lose are we

If BB sticks around another year how close are we to relace a few coaches. Is this something we could see next year or are we going to have to wait tell BB is done. I love what BB and micky has done and I dont think we should just give up hope, All we need right now is the win. I dont care how we get it but thats what we need.

by Desman on Nov 21, 2008 8:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

If he does stick around another year, I fear we could take a huge step back and go 5-7 or 4-8.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

do you think the boosters see this also and/or do they have to pull to change things

by Desman on Nov 21, 2008 12:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

There are boosters who read this site. The key is to get the administration and the boosters singing the same tune.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Nov 21, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just want what is best for FSU.

I want to see a team that can win a NC with players that are not getting arrested. I want to see a team that is growing. Our Off is getting better with every snap, but the Def. is right where they were at the first part of the season if not taking a step back. If we need BB to step down I would hate to see it but at the same time I will always love him for what he has done for college football and FSU.

by Desman on Nov 21, 2008 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs