Pondering Ponder and the Florida State Passing Game... plus daily notes
After watching the film, I am finally ready to talk Ponder, Jimbo, and the Passing game. Also inside: some funny Nole quotes.

We will not have: Kevin Mcniel and Darius McClure
Pretty Questionable: Lt Andrew Datko
Arrests could be handed down any day in the union fight case. That has not gone away. Let's hope our guys are cleared and that they are acting more appropriately now.
Terrance Parks might get some burn at safety this week.
Everette Brown: best available passrusher for the 2009 draft. Good Luck EB99
I'll have our Q&A up with the Maryland Blogger, TestudoTimes.com, but for now, enjoy this Q&A from Andrew Carter.
TomahawkNation Writer TrueCubbie has an excellent preview of tonight's basketball game with Stetson.
Chanrtrant believes tonight's game between Miami and Georgia Tech is important... for Mickey Andrews.
Funny Quotes & Thoughts
NOTE: these are completely fictitious.
While listening to the press conferences, I wondered why Mickey Andrews neglected to place blame on several players who did not play due to injury or redshirt designation. Clearly, that lack intensity as well, yet have not been the target of the intensity campaign.
Talking Ponder and the Passing Game
After watching the tape, I wanted to share some thoughts on Ponder and the passing game. I've been accused of going easy on Ponder, but I maintain that I report what I see.
- Let's take all of the coming in criticism in context. Our pass protection has been flat horrible. Ponder rarely has time to look at more than two options. The tackles really aren't ready to pass block at the major D1 level and the interior guys (McMahon and Spurlock) often are blown into the backfield, destroying any semblance of a pocket.
- Our receivers really do a poor job by allowing themselves to be rerouted when facing a zone defense. I have no doubt that our man-heavy defensive scheme contributes to this as they get few looks against this in practice. Regardless, 2 of the interceptions on Saturday were significantly influenced by receivers running poor routes.
- Ponder is now stepping up in the pocket on a much more consistent basis (when a pocket actually exists). We criticized Ponder for taking huge drops early in the season, specifically when he was in shotgun. He's really tightened this up. In at least some areas, Ponder has shown an ability to improve.
- Ponder often fails to stand tall in the pocket. I'm not sure if this is a function of his need to scramble at a moment's notice, but it's not an effective style. His crouch can be a little ridiculous at times. I predict that he will always crouch some, but if he can correct his excessive knee bend even a little, he'll be able to better see over his offensive line and scan the field. His excessive knee bend definitely contributes to some of his high throws.
- Ponder does sometimes stare down his receiver. In scanning the message boards, however, I feel this criticism is voiced too often. He doesn't do this on every completion or incompletion. I think this is something that is easy for the casual viewer to latch on to and that's why they are repeating the criticism. Looking off a safety is a technique that he can learn.
- Ponder doesn't throw to the middle of the field very well at all. Again, I think part of this is related to the nonexistent pocket, which he cannot step into. Another part could be stance related. He can sometimes be high on these throws (stance related). Some of the blame here also needs to go on Jimbo, as we do not call many posts, drags, or deep-ins. I assume this will come in our offense at a later date, hopefully when the offensive line is able to form an actual pocket on a consistent basis. It's tough to throw to the deep middle when he's running, because either way he throws, it will be against his momentum.
- Ponder generally does a nice job throwing the ball in a spot where his receivers can run with it after the catch. I doubt anyone would really debate this.
- Ponder does not consistently throw the ball in rhythm (throwing late). I'm not totally sure why this is. Let's start with trust. Ponder clearly does not trust his OLine Sure, they run block very well, but their pass blocking has been suspect. My theory is that he pays attention to the pass rush and doesn't devote enough attention to the receivers in their routes. The other trust issue is trusting his reads. He could have been scarred after the Wake game. Hopefully time will heal this, as he gains confidence in his line play and is able to trust his eyes in their reads. This is definitely a concern here.
- 2nd and 3rd options. I'm not sure what to say about this. How often does he actually have time to go to his THIRD option?!? Not often at all. I'm not particularly pleased with Jimbo's passing concepts in terms of designing multiple vertical stretches. I do think he could do a better job by moving quicker through his reads, but I'd really like to sit down with the people who are criticizing this. I'd bet that often they don't realize what they are seeing as often as they think they are.
- Hitting the backs and the TE. This is a catch-22. Due to the abysmal pass blocking (don't be confused: out pass pro is horrible, our run blocking is pretty good), we often keep the TE and the Backs in to block. Still, Ponder needs to do a better job of hitting these guys. He started to do this against BC some, throwing 5 passes to Smith and Thomas, 4 of which were caught (Smith dropped one). Thomas is a beast in space when healthy, and some recruited him as a receiver. We need to throw him 3 balls per game at the very minimum. Antone and Thomas are sometimes open underneath as a late-breaking safety valve and CP7 needs to hit them more often.
- Play Action. I want to see more play action in early downs and on 3rd and manageable. Big plays happen off of play action in run downs. Ponder had GREAT play fakes early in the year, and he's regressed some in this area. SELL THEM CHRISTIAN! We're also calling a lot fewer PA passes now, for some reason.
- Jimbo must do a better job of scheming to give Ponder open throws in between the hashes. I'm talking more pick-routes and a few different zone busters.
- Ponder throws for first downs and touchdowns. 9 of his 15 completions went for 1st downs. This is a total 180 from Drew, who was content to take the 6 yard gain on 3rd and 11. That helped his stats but not the team. The proper approach to quarterbacking is somewhere in the middle. Sometimes, the 1st down pass is simply not open and the proper play is to dump the ball underneath. This is especially beneficial if your coach (Jimbo) will go for it on 4th down like he should. Read this scholarly paper on 4th downs. We saw this in his interception on 3rd and 25; a throw in which he didn't account for the safety and tried to sneak the ball to the streaking post route. I hated that call and wanted to see a draw there. Until we can consitently pass protect, teams will get pressure with 4, flush him from the pocket, and play excellent pass coverage with 7 defenders. I hope Ponder never becomes selfish and settles for 6 yard gains on 3rd and 8 just to avoid throwing a pick, but he needs to understand the idea of acceptable risk. Let's remember our familiar quote:" ...pass protections usually start out with the understanding that if the defense rushes five guys, you can pick them up, but your blockers will have to be able to block at least one defender (more likely 2) one-on-one. No pass protection scheme can count on double teaming all possible rushers. If you can’t handle anyone man-for-man, then a five man rush effectively becomes like a seven or eight man blitz, but also with sound coverage behind it._ Smartfootball.blogspot"
- Finally, as we discussed yesterday at length (read that if you haven't yet) note that against BC we called 34 pass plays, and were successful on 16 of them. 47% is above the break-even line of 44%. In comparison, we called 20 running plays and had success on only 7 of them. All of the offensive burden fell on the passing game.
More to come later today. I apologize for the grammar errors; I typed this really fast. Thoughts so far? On Ponder? On Jimbo?
Comments
I have to agree
The only thing I can think of is maybe EB wont leave. I love what you wrote about Pounder and I couldnt agree more.
by Desman on
Nov 20, 2008 11:08 AM EST
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I WANT EB to leave.
He deserves to get paid. And I think he’s 99% gone.
by pbysh on
Nov 20, 2008 11:10 AM EST
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He's graduating this December, he's done everything he can do here, he is gone.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 11:16 AM EST
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So is he for sure a 1st rounder??
I hope he is. he deserves it.
by ChileanNole on
Nov 20, 2008 11:29 AM EST
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Question
FSUncensored , you wrote “The tackles really aren’t ready to pass block at the major D1 level and the interior guys (McMahon and Spurlock) often are blown into the backfield, destroying any semblance of a pocket.” Now what are the chances that Rose and Bellmay come back next year. And if they do come back do you think they are an upgrade over Spurlock and Greenlee/Sanders/Datko?
by Quentin C on
Nov 20, 2008 11:48 AM EST
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I don't think they come back, though I don't have any inside info on that. I can ask around.
I also really like where this line is going and I don’t think Bellamy would be an upgrade next year, unless McMahon stops making progress and Bellamy could play center. Rose is a heck of a prospect, however, and I’d like to have him back if he’s stayed in shape, etc. Somehow, I doubt he has.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 11:54 AM EST
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Did I miss the question time for Maryland blogger.
I had an important one. Is it better to take the Metro or park on campus? I hear College Park is pretty rough.
by UNFNOLE on
Nov 20, 2008 12:19 PM EST
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Yes, but I'll forward it to him.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 12:32 PM EST
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Thanks man
I enjoy the disagreement, hope I don’t come off as abrasive. Someone has to be the devils advocate though since everyone has pretty much been in agreement with you on the coaching issue.
by UNFNOLE on
Nov 20, 2008 12:42 PM EST
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Happy to have intelligent discussion UNF.
I posted a review of Amato’s recruiting that surprised even myself.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 12:54 PM EST
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“Play Action. I want to see more play action in early downs and on 3rd and manageable. Big plays happen off of play action in run downs. Ponder had GREAT play fakes early in the year, and he’s regressed some in this area. SELL THEM CHRISTIAN! We’re also calling a lot fewer PA passes now, for some reason.”
Play action takes time, which takes blocking, which, as you’ve mentioned, we don’t have much of (see sack and fumble against GTech). I agree we should PA more, but I can understand Jimbo’s aversion to it.
by evenflow58 on
Nov 20, 2008 12:20 PM EST
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Clearly they take time, but we have opportunities do sell them well on 2nd/3rd and medium.
Ponder’s fakes were lazy in the Clemson game, and somewhat against BC.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 12:33 PM EST
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with play acrion
Isnt play action a time consuming play like a counter. If we fake a dive and then have to check down from the first WR to the TE/ RB we would take a huge sack on 2 or 3rd down. Im not agenst it but I would rather go to screens we have gone away from them and I thought we were good at them. However I feel play action sets up for running the ball later in the game.
by Desman on
Nov 20, 2008 6:40 PM EST
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I just like Play-Action because our guys can use run-style blocking to throw the other team off.
We can move the pocket with this as well. People complain that we don’t throw down field often, and I agree to an extent. Play action is a way to get it down field.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 6:46 PM EST
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Passing Game
I think you are right on. He doesn’t get through his reads quickly, although his first and second options have been pretty good at getting themselves open and esp when Ponder scrambles. They do a good job of working back to the ball and getting in front of Ponder’s face Except for in the BC game. . I would say Boston College was more of a fluke and not very telling of the rest of the season. Not only was his time to throw even shorter than it had been, He was just throwing bad balls. They were late and not accurate at all. Who would you say is better at picking up extra defenders on blocking schemes, Thomas or Smith? Thats a hard thing for a RB and it takes time to develop. It’s rarely something you see a Freshman succeed at, but I haven’t notice Thomas being ‘bad’ at this. Maybe I am just not paying attention closely enough.
Also, you mentioned we only had 20 running plays. I am not sure how many of those were designed QB draws, but I was really dissapointed in them even attempting to run up the gut. Yes those DT’s were intimidating and really having their way, but if you only try (I think once) then you are giving away your running plays. All the LB’s have to do is take their first step outside. They were extremely quick in getting there (and they aren’t terribly fast LB’s). I was encouraged by Jimbo’s playcalling until last week. It was predictable and easy to defend.
by UNFNOLE on
Nov 20, 2008 12:51 PM EST
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The wr’s are better coached this year. Everyone seems to be happy with Dawsey.
I think Smith is the better blitz pickup guy, but Thomas has improved (he blew a big one against Miami). Someone got in his ear.
4 of the 20 were designed runs to Ponder.
I thought we needed to do a better job using a shovel pass or a lead draw to get up the gut. You’re spot on in thinking that we needed to run up the gut more.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 12:58 PM EST
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Ponder
Check out the endzone interception late against BC. Although Carr made another pathetic attempt at the ball, the pass was thrown on the short and on the defenders side. If thrown properly to the short corner of the end zone, Carr makes that catch for 6.
Hard to throw while falling backwards I guess.
UNF NOLE
I go every Nole Away Game against Univ. of Maryland and stay in D.C., we always take the Metro into College Park and walk through campus to stadium, then a taxi post game (they are readily available on main drag by the bars) for easy exit.
Fans are really not that bad, even at the campus hot spots following games. (Nothing like LSU!) Just crowded.
wac
by FSUwac87 on
Nov 20, 2008 2:21 PM EST
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It seemed to me that Easterling had been Ponder’s safety valve the entire season and it really hurt him to be without that option. You are correct in pointing out that, while our run blocking has been good, our pass blocking has been horrid. This is better than last year though when both were abysmal. There is progress being made, and hopefully that will show up next year.
by nacfsu on
Nov 20, 2008 3:41 PM EST
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Hmm. You think the pass pro is better this year? I think the run blocking is way better but the pass blocking has regressed.
Easterling made huge catches throughout the whole year, specifically against Miami.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 3:45 PM EST
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Pass pro at WV
I never followed WV in the past. I know that WV was excellent at running the ball when Trickett was there, but how was their pass protection?
by heartnnole on
Nov 20, 2008 4:25 PM EST
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I'm not sure. I do know that they ran a ton of PA and featured very little dropback protections.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 4:27 PM EST
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Pass pro
I hope it isn’t something missing from Trickett’s repertoire. I understand that our OL is young and not that strong. However, with the great strides that they have made in run blocking, I would expect a little improvement in pass blocking as well. Hopefully, I am just being a little too impatient!
by heartnnole on
Nov 20, 2008 4:39 PM EST
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Part of pass pro is having enough mass wo withstand a bullrush.
We’re so worried about getting runover that we take tight splits, focus on the inside, and then get beat to the outside.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 4:55 PM EST
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correct!
run blocking is a motion me moving foward vs you moving foward
pass block is I take a step back and post up my STR at about 80% vs your STR and 100% + your foward motion.
I think the pass blocking is going to get better but its not going to be over night. Next year will be better but I feel FSU pass blocking will be good enough 2 years from now.
by Desman on
Nov 20, 2008 6:48 PM EST
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After re-reading, my statement wasn’t clear. I think the pass protection has been terrible this year. The progress on the line has been made in the run blocking. I said both were bad last year, so at least there was some improvement made by the line, and maybe by next year the pass protection can start to catch up.
by nacfsu on
Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM EST
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I like our WRs
at least make an effort at blocking now
by FSUStateOfMind on
Nov 20, 2008 5:01 PM EST
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Dawsey= thumbs up
Carter= thumbs down.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 5:03 PM EST
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What don't you like about Carter.
by FSUStateOfMind on
Nov 20, 2008 5:08 PM EST
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I just don't think he lasts.
Let’s call it a hunch.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 20, 2008 5:10 PM EST
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cant even get to the bottem and youve alreadyt anwsered all my stupied stuff
by Desman on
Nov 20, 2008 6:50 PM EST
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I never understood the Carter hire.
Great guy I’m sure, but had he even been a graduate assistant anywhere before coming here?
by MattDNole on
Nov 21, 2008 8:00 AM EST
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RB coach is by far the easiest position to coach, but there are some recruiting issues here.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 21, 2008 11:25 AM EST
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How about William Floyd?
He can probably talk to the mamas and the papas. And he’d enjoy the meals on recruiting visits, too.
“How would you like your pork, William?”
“Chop it up!!!”
by MattDNole on
Nov 21, 2008 11:37 AM EST
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hahaha
thank god he stopped saying that after every touchdown
by Renegade11 on
Nov 21, 2008 12:56 PM EST
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for the RB coach I say we find the best HS football team in FL w/ the best running game over the last 5 years like St mary Aquates, Lakeland, Dade Co, Madisen Co and take up one of there coaches as the RB coach. this way we can get that schools RB for the next few years. I know that wont work but when we are going agenst UF, Bama, and UGA what else can we do.
by Desman on
Nov 21, 2008 11:37 AM EST
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Good stuff...
All valid points, but in the BC game they were calling and setting up blocking for routes that were open…he was finding those recievers…and he was not pulling the trigger. That zone was in his head.
Also, Fisher does a good job of mixing up protections, formations, and rout combinations to compensate for our line this year. They essentially KNOW they aren’t going to have time and game plan to get the ball out quick 65% of the time
Again this week they did the same thing and Ponder just wasn’t with us…like an out of body experience….
Finally, even with the lack of a run game Fish called enough plays on enough drives to give him open recievers…this week…he just couldn’t find them.
by truecolors on
Nov 22, 2008 8:57 AM EST
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or just wouldn't release the ball...
by truecolors on
Nov 22, 2008 8:58 AM EST
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True, you really think we were blocking well enough for him to find them open?
I do think the pick got in his head, as it probably would most when the WR runs the wrong route.
The play that Herbie pointed out on the broadcast— Herbie was wrong. Ponder saw the LB jumping and had to double pump.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 22, 2008 12:19 PM EST
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Herbie was a bit distracted.
The coeds can kind of get into his head.
by MattDNole on
Nov 22, 2008 12:22 PM EST
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Erin Andrews
I think Herbie was right in his general point, but he used the wrong play to demonstrate.
by FSUncensored on
Nov 22, 2008 12:32 PM EST
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Oh you mean Fluffykins had his attention?
Then I forgive him for his error.
by MattDNole on
Nov 22, 2008 12:53 PM EST
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I think it also hurt him with the trust of the WR he didnt have his go to guy out there but I hope that dif this week.
by Desman on
Nov 22, 2008 12:06 PM EST
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