MBB Game 11: FSU 69 Tennessee Tech 59
by TrueCubbie on Dec 16, 2008 4:52 PM EST
in FSU Basketball
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PrintTennessee Tech Golden Eagles at Florida St. Seminoles, Dec 16, 2008 7:00 PM EST
Preview: A win is a win. And the Noles hung on to move to 9-1 after squeaking past Georgia St. Tonight, we take on the Golden Eagles from Tennessee Tech.
FSUncensored asked if our expectations are to high for our team...take a look inside for my thoughts about our last game and how we'll do against the Golden Eagles.
The Noles moved to 10-1 tonight with a win against the Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles. It wasn't pretty early but there were improvements during the game. Check out the game preview and game thread. Next up Charleston Southern...our final tune up before Pitt.
On Saturday evening, we barely hung on to beat the Panthers from Georgia State, blowing a huge lead in the second half. Thanks to our free throw shooting and a missed three by GSU best shooter, we won. And yes, it was nice to move to 9-1, but I was really disappointed with the outcome. If you quickly look at the numbers, we should have won this one easily. However, with 13:10 to go in the second half, the Noles allowed GSU to go on a 25-8 run to tie the game with 19 seconds left. In that time, we had 5 turnovers, two offensive fouls and couldn't buy a basket from the floor or the free throw line.
FSUncensored asked if our expectations are too high for this team? I want this team to well. I expect this team to do well. I recognize that this is a young team and we will make our mistakes. However, this team, with its size and talent should not squander such leads against a team like GSU. In my game preview, I made the point that I was concerned about playing such an erratic team on the road...we almost blew it.
After the game Loucks said the following: "I think we just got complacent. I think a couple of us looked up at the scoreboard and realized we were ahead by 19 . . . and honestly I think we just stopped being aggressive on both ends." Unacceptable.
"I'm just thankful we're able to win while we're going through the learning process," Hamilton said. We beat Florida. We beat Cincinnati. We beat Cal. Should GSU really be part of the learning process?
Demercy's quote about killed me: "I think really it's just a lack of focus." Guess what, you play in the toughest conference in college basketball, we can't afford to be unfocused against the likes of UNC, Maryland, Wake Forest and so on...
Let's quickly look at the numbers. We shot 55% from the floor. An amazing 63% from the 3 points line and only 68% from the line. (This wad a bad night from the line for us. Singleton went 11-4 and Reid was 0-2.) Except for the slightly low FT%, this is a good line. Compare it to GSU: 37% from the floor. 35% from the 3 point line and 66% from the FT line. Looking at tose numbers alone...we should have one the game. We turned the ball over 15 times. They turned it over 7. They had 13 offensive rebounds to our 10. I could go on but I won't...you get the point. It was a win, but I'm not happy.
Tonight we take on Tennessee Tech (TTech) at home, starting a 3 game home stand that includes Pitt. 5 out of our 6 next games are at home. TTech, out of the Ohio Valley Conference, is 6-2 and currently ranks 154 in the Pomeroy ratings. We rank 84th (Offense 155th and Defense 51st)
Here are their stats:
Raw Tempo: 73.3 poss/40 min National Rank=32
Adj Tempo: 73.6 poss/40 min National Rank=25
Offense Defense
Raw Efficiency : 106.6 ( 79) 100.4 (175)
Adj Efficiency : 105.4 ( 93) 104.2 (233)
Effective FG% : 51.2 ( 85) 45.5 ( 75)
Turnover Pct. : 17.5 ( 28) 22.1 (133)
Off. Rebound% : 33.8 (161) 38.7 (311)
Free Throw Rate: 24.7 (160) 49.0 (323)
3-Point FG% : 37.6 ( 75) 25.8 ( 11)
2-Point FG% : 49.3 (119) 47.8 (167)
Free Throw Pct.: 68.4 (160) 66.3 (108)
Block Pct. : 3.0 ( 2) 11.6 ( 65)
Steal Pct. : 9.6 (156) 10.9 (116)
3PA/FGA : 27.4 (284) 24.9 ( 11)
A/FGM : 47.1 (299) 49.7 ( 85)
They like to run and they like to throw up shots. They typically put up 60 to 70 shots per game, which averages out to 1.5 to 1.75 shots per minute of game play. In our last game, we shot the ball 38 times or 0.95 shots per game. As you can see by their tempo, they like to move and get shots off quickly. And they do quite well on offense, having a top 100 offense: see all the green? Granted, we are going to be the best opponent they have played so far this year. They shoot the three well, they don't get blocked and they don't turn the ball over. Their defense is clearly their weakness...you could equate them to a Phoenix Suns like team. Run, run, run and get quick baskets and put up a lot of points and hope to out score your opponent. Their major weakness is getting in to foul trouble. Guess which team gets to the line often and shoots well from the line? That's right...the Noles.
Here is the Golden Eagles' schedule so far this year:
| Offense | Defense | |||||||||||||
| Date | Opponent | Result | Site | Pace | Eff. | eFG% | TO% | OR% | FTR | Eff. | eFG% | TO% | OR% | FTR |
| Sat Nov 15 | Bryan College (s) (sr) | W, 76-48 | H | 69 | 110.3 | 61.2 | 20.3 | 32.3 | 22.4 | 69.7 | 38.7 | 21.8 | 12.2 | 26.4 |
| Tue Nov 18 | Lipscomb (s) (sr) | W, 83-72 | A | 78 | 106.3 | 56.4 | 17.9 | 23.9 | 36.5 | 92.3 | 44.0 | 20.5 | 32.1 | 56.9 |
| Sat Nov 22 | Southern Utah (s) (sr) | W, 69-68 | H | 69 | 100.2 | 51.9 | 21.8 | 31.3 | 45.3 | 98.8 | 40.7 | 21.8 | 44.4 | 45.8 |
| Mon Nov 24 | East Tennessee St. (s) (sr) | L, 78-65 | H | 73 | 89.5 | 36.7 | 13.8 | 28.9 | 31.3 | 107.4 | 51.0 | 26.2 | 39.7 | 61.5 |
| Sat Nov 29 | Louisiana Monroe (s) (sr) | W, 108-70 | H | 75 | 144.0 | 59.7 | 12.0 | 50.0 | 34.7 | 93.3 | 41.0 | 22.7 | 38.3 | 55.7 |
| Mon Dec 1 | Lipscomb (s) (sr) | W, 78-71 | H | 76 | 103.0 | 51.6 | 21.1 | 43.0 | 39.3 | 93.8 | 43.4 | 27.7 | 43.2 | 26.5 |
| Sat Dec 6 | Jacksonville St. (s) (sr) | L, 82-66 | H | 69 | 95.1 | 50.0 | 18.7 | 23.5 | 30.4 | 118.2 | 54.2 | 13.0 | 34.2 | 52.5 |
Familiar with any of these teams? I know Louisiana Monroe from college baseball. TTech has played reasonably well against its opponents thus far. They shoot the ball well and they put up a lot of points. They average 79 points per game and only give up 66. We only put up 66 and allow 62.
Here are their likely starters (This is based on their last game. They change their starting line up often and will sometimes go with a three guard set):
D. Northern F 6'9" 210 Sr 12pts 5.8 reb 3.2blks
K. Murphy F 6'6" 185 Fr 6.4pts 2.9reb
B. Inameti F 6'8" 215 Fr 2.4pts 1.6reb (Doesn't stay in the game for very long)
E. Muhammad G 6'0 170 Jr 5.3 pts 3.1 reb 2.9ast 2.0 A/T
F. Davis G 6'2" 185 Jr 9.9pts 1.7 reb 1.9 ast 1.44 A/T
They're young. They're relatively small. But they sub early and often and like to go small. This may explain why they are able to keep such a high tempo offense. This team isn't as sporadic as GSU. However, they haven't played anyone and most sites say this is a rebuilding year for them. Florida likes to run and look what we did with them. We have the athleticism to get up and down the floor with them and, once again, our size is superior.
Here's a quick look at our numbers. I won't go through them a ton as you already know how I feel where we stand. We're young and their is a lot to improve:
Raw Tempo: 67.4 poss/40 min National Rank=181
Adj Tempo: 69.4 poss/40 min National Rank=120
Offense Defense
Raw Efficiency : 99.5 (186) 93.0 ( 75)
Adj Efficiency : 101.0 (155) 90.3 ( 51)
Effective FG% : 49.0 (162) 43.9 ( 44)
Turnover Pct. : 24.6 (299) 21.1 (175)
Off. Rebound% : 34.8 (135) 32.8 (157)
Free Throw Rate: 39.8 ( 6) 35.2 (151)
3-Point FG% : 35.8 (113) 31.2 ( 90)
2-Point FG% : 46.6 (204) 42.1 ( 45)
Free Throw Pct.: 73.4 ( 51) 66.8 (126)
Block Pct. : 6.4 ( 61) 17.3 ( 10)
Steal Pct. : 9.5 (151) 11.4 ( 87)
3PA/FGA : 32.8 (170) 38.6 (307)
A/FGM : 53.1 (187) 50.0 ( 90)
Lots of green on the defensive side of the ball, which I love and is typical of a Hamilton coached team. But look at that sore thumb on the offensive side of the ball-- turnover percentage. This has to improve quickly or we will be in trouble in conference play.
I like our chances against TTech. However, I fear that this team is starting to look too far ahead to Pitt and to the rapidly approaching conference play. I feel comfortable that we're playing at home. Look for us to slow the pace of the game and keep TTech anxious. What do I mean by that? Look for them to be overly aggressive on defense trying to force turnovers to try and get out in transition and control the game. This will lead to fouls and us getting to the line. Advantage us. Again, this should be an opportunity to get Reid and Alabi the ball and get their games developed as much as possible for the ACC season. We need them to be aggressive. Hansborough will eat them alive if they don't show some emotion.
The game will be televised locally on FSN-FL. There should be plenty of radio feeds.
What are your thoughts/worries about this game? Do you think we'll see more of Kitchen in this game and how will his playing time help our team? What are your thoughts about the GSU game: elated that we won or frustrated by our ability to consistently make the same mistakes?
Look forward to your thoughts. Go NOLES!
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TC you do a great job with these.
My worries:
- We’re more banged up than I realize. Uche can’t play much and Alibi struggles to keep up.
- We’re unable to control pace, commit lots of turnovers, and then launch ill-advised threes in an attempt to come back.
My Hopes:
- We play at a smart tempo.
- We feed the ball to the big guys, get TState in foul trouble early, and cruise.
I think we will see Kitchen because he can move and he has good natural defensive ability. I do think he will help us in this game and throughout the season, most notably in relief of Tony Douglas.
What are your thoughts about the GSU game: elated that we won or frustrated by our ability to consistently make the same mistakes?
Earlier in the season, I’d be somewhat okay with escaping with a win. At this point, however, i think this foreshadows a team that is going to be pretty bad in the ACC play.
In fact, I’ll ask this: Do you think we have a better chance to win 0 ACC games or 9 ACC games?
Was out of town
and missed the GSU game but have been able to get a pretty good feel for how it went thanks to TrueCubbie’s analysis. Thanks for the great work…
Couple thoughts/questions on the GSU game.
1. ) Did anyone get to watch any of it on TV, if so how much did Kitchen play and how did he look?
2. ) It seems that this team likes to play to the level of their opponents. We consistently let teams dictate play which is a sign of a poorly coached team. I will not rant about Hamilton, but i will say that there are no excuses for allowing a team of that caliber to go on a 25-8 run at the end of a game. Call timeouts, sub your players, fire your guys up.
Teams always go on runs, and its your job to stop that momentum. Shouldn’t have been too difficult with their level of talent. Does not bode well for conference play
3.) I dont think we have too high of expectations, when you watch this team its evident the level of talent that is on the floor. It’s a matter of utilizing that talent, nevermind them being young.
4. ) The stats line from the GSU game is really strange, how do we shoot that well from the field yet still be tied with 19 seconds to go?
5.) Couldn’t agree more about Alibi-5 shots is unexcusable.
1. Kitchen’s line: Derwin Kitchen 6 minutes 0-1 FG 0-1 3pt 2-2 FT 1 Reb 0 TO, made some big plays down the stretch.
2. Agreed. And it’s consistent with a young team.
3. Agreed.
4.) We ran a slow offense, turned the ball over and didn’t make any shots during a 5 minute stretch. With the way they could score, they came charging back.
5.) He’ll get there. I have hope and he could be great. His size is outstanding.
Not worried
They lost focus because they’re a young team playing on the road against a team they “should” beat with a big lead. It’s not uncommon. Hopefully, they’ve learned a lesson.
Note – the Offensive rebound discrepancy is due to more missed shots by GSU
In other news...
Chris Singleton was ACC Rookie of the week. Congrats big fella keep up the good work!
Their 3's dropping doesn't bother me too much in a close 1st half
It’s four consecutive turnovers that piss me off.
They're a young team.
It’s not as if you can expect young athletes to do anything but play poorly (sarcasm as I watch other teams do well with young kids).
Wow
This is very hard to watch. Our offense is pathetic. I think it might get extremely ugly against acc competition.
No Reason
We shouldnt blow out Tenn Tech. Look at our talent compared to theirs. Just a question, what would have to happen for LH to get fired?
Good question and I think he's safe. Look at how he recruits...brining in top talent regularly. Generally has a couple of surprise wins each year over big time ACC teams. Typically makes it to the NIT. Typically has great starts to the season.
This would be like a college football coach winning 9 games per year. Making it to a bowl game and being ranked. The results are not outstanding but they are consistently good (?). I think he is safe.
I've decided to only post at the half so I can pay better attention.
I’ve have been trying to watch how we set up the offense and I have actually been pleasantly suprised. I don’t think the turnovers are a result of scheme. I think they are a result of careless play and inexperience. Ditto on rebounds. No one seems to know what the other guy is going to to. You could say that is a result of scheme, but usually it looks like someone made a mistake, rather than not knowing what to do. This is the first game I have tried to watch what we are trying to do, rather than just watching what happens. Hamilton said we are “inventing” turnovers while going into the half, and I couldn’t agree more. I am not trying to taut the superiority of Ham’s offense; I am just glad to see that there does look like a plan. Please everyone don’t rip me for not ripping Hamilton!
Definitely not going to rip you
I haven’t been watching the game (it’s not on here)
All I have to go on is the radio (plus the NW and UF games that I saw on TV)
TBF!
Nobody will rip you at all. We really value your (and everyone’s) opinion.
Do you think he should consider other options, rather than his motion offense, for instance some more set plays?
A friend of mine says this team plays with just insanely low basketball IQ. Agree?
Add:
At one point we failed to execute 3 out of 4 inbounds plays and then followed that dazzling display with turnovers on 4 consecutive possessions. All of those were unforced errors.
that agrees with some of what I was saying
it’s not that no one is open. They passer is telegraphing big time, or just misses with the pass. That seems like execution, not scheme. That does however show that we need to practice those plays more.
Also
how do you explain 7 consecutive seasons of turnover madness? I don’t know basketball like I know the gridiron, so I am curious.
I would attribute it to lack of talent along with the lack of a scheme with the ability to succeed without it.
If we are not a solid tournament team in two years, there will be no more excuses. This is the first year Hamilton has had all his pieces. We have had some bad breaks as far as big men until now.
yes
although we are very young, and I don’t have a high enough IQ myself to suggest something better. I was kidding about getting ripped. The site is better from differing opinions.
Excellent points!
I really agree with the “plan” this game. I’m only listening as I can’t get the game in Chicago. But it sounds that the offense has a flow and we’re getting the ball inside and we’re making careless mistakes. Again, we’re young and we’re not used to being on the court together. It will develop but it needs to develop faster. I don’t think Hamilton is terrible…as a defensive coach he is brilliant. Just needs to develop and encourage offensive talent a bit better.
I am only basing the previous post on the half I just watched. Not the previous 10 games.
So I reserve the right to totally contradict it. It has just given me a glimmer of hope of our improvement.
True, but...
They are being made by Seniors
freshmen
Juniors
Sophomores
everyone.
This has to be a culture of the team thing, I think.
hard to get a rebound when we miss the basket entirely
but we should dominate the boards in these cupcake games
you asked just as I was thinking that I hope something clicks for him soon
A co-workers son played high school and AAU against him and said Louck was dominant. So far I am disappoined.
He is a little slow
but I am OK with that as long as he knows it and doesn’t try to beat people to the basket.
TRUECUBBIE:
something to address: some think we are poor defending the 3. Our numbers don’t show this at all. Might want to mention that in the next preview.
Hamilton needs a poster
of Singleton, that basically notes CS as a future NBA guy, and all the others as role players.
I just remember us doing it like 3 times in the last game
that was driving me nuts. good to see it’s not a habit
From the T Tech announcer
“I don’t think the basketball hall of fame will ask for any of the footage of the last 3 minutes, but it’s been exciting”
We are going to get killed in ACC if this doesn't severely improve.
I hope we start to play horribly inconsistant. That would mean that some games we would handle the ball much better.
We need to force them to play at our pace and I think you nailed it with how ugly can we make them play.
We may be having a ton of turnovers, our offensive may not be where it will be, but we force teams to play our game. Look at what we did with Florida. We slowed them down and took away their strengths. It will be tough because the ACC elite are damn good, big and make their shots. We will surprise a couple of teams.
I really don't.
I think he plans to stay for 2009 at least, and our boosters won’t mobilize any serious effort against him unless he makes overtones about hanging around in 2011
As of now, we are in “maintain” mode, meaning that we need to try to not get any worse.
Looks like
We are gonna take this one, but our team isnt tournament quality. Kitchen is a beast though
maybe, I think Big East is good, but after UNC and Duke there's a big drop
no Maryland to worry about like earlier in the decade and I don’t know about Wake
I think we should throw out our hopes of making the tourney this early.
Sunday should be a great test though.
10-1 is a very good start
committee will look at the Cal, Cincy and UF wins.
If we can go 8-10 in the ACC (1-1 in the tourney) I think we can make it.
Singleton sounds like gold
are we not getting the ball to him enough or are we easing him in … even though it is Game 11?
Congrats to the Noles and thanks to everyone who has contributed.
10-1. Great start to the year. Two more games to get tuned up for Pitt.
Sloppy game. Careless mistakes, but not to harp on this, but we didn’t allow them to get comfortable on offense and played our game. Slow tempo. Tough defense low scoring. I’m glad we were able to put it away at the end. However, in the ACC that many turnovers won’t get us far.
I'm really happy that we have a group of guys who like football AND basketball.
I’m also excited about Derwin!
There ya go. Go FISH!!!
I didn’t know any other Marlins fans existed outside the state. I mean, there’s only 18 of us. ;-)
Oh man, I catch all kinds of stuff for rooting for the fish and not the braves, haha.
Actually went to the 1st ever games of the Fish and Rays
Went ot Marlins-Braves in Atlanta this past year, which was cool and a W
Me and two cousins went to Game 5 between Cubbies and Fish in 2003 …
oops, my condolences TrueCubbie
We had a really offensive Marlins based drinking game in '03
Louis Castillo= tequilla
someone else was rum
lenny harris was a 40 of malt liquor (nasty and warm by the time he got called on to pinch hit)
Jeff Conine was ensure mixed with grain alcohol (for his age).
There were more as well.
They really cheered when Philly gave Ibanez 3years and 30 Mil to PLAY THE OUTFIELD!
I cheered thinking of him trying to track down a ball in Joe Robbie.
I'll send you some new-age football stuff.
I hesitate to post it as I don’t understand it all that well.
I am over a lot of the college humor surrounding their game threads I much prefer these threads.
I do appreciate heaps of sarcasm though.
Also, I don’t want to get too deep into stats. I think they are legit although sometimes too stone-cold. I think studying stats is too much like work and takes the fun out of fandome. I do enjoy a limited amount though because they really help underscore the concepts of luck and regression.
not the guys who run the site
but some posters think that kind of stuff is funny and it is tolerated, if not encouraged. I don’t want to be seen as a fun-hater, so I just stay away from the gameday threads. The site content is still really good.
by TBfisherman on Dec 16, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I've been trying to clean up the cursing around here.
Trust me, SBNation is really pushing for a more professional atmosphere.
by Bud Elliott on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Also,
I wonder what our defensive numbers were like on possessions set up off a rebound or a made shot, as opposed to a turnover.
Like his numbers and performance...
But if we don’t get Toney Douglas some rest his heart will explode in the 9th ACC game.
Alright dudes and dudettes...I'm out. But we play Charleston Southern on Thursday night, so I'll have more detailed thoughts on the game then.
Thanks again for everyone who contributed tonight. It was an excellent discussion and we’re glad to see all of your enthusiasm about the bball team. 10-1 is a great way to start.
well go Noles.
I think its good the team is winning. Might not be the way we want them to win but a win is a win
If we beat Charleston Southern...
Is there any chance ESPN would pick up the Pitt feed? Why would you not want to televise a 10-1 team playing the #3 team. I get that our record is a bit misleading, I’ve followed all the games. I just think it would make a pretty good story line. We usually keep up with the competition anyway.
I bet it happens.
CSouthern is literally one of the worst teams in America. We should crush them. At 10-1, we’d be golden.
by Bud Elliott on Dec 17, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
we should crush them but will we?
i wouldnt be surprised to see us win by 5 the way we are turning the ball over. whats the spread right now?
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