Florida State to wear track spikes in the Champs Sports Bowl?
by Bud Elliott on Dec 22, 2008 11:39 AM EST
in FSU Football
35 comments
I've remained somewhat apprehensive about this bowl game. Will Florida State be motivated? Will Chuck Amato watch enough film? Will Wisconsin pound the 'Noles on the ground? I'm not sure about those, but I've found something that leads me to believe that the Noles will run for 300 yards on Wisconsin.
Also, we came close to beating Pitt last night. TrueCubbie did an amazing job with the game thread.
Inside, I will discuss my findings.
To get where I am going with this, you need to first understand a few things. First, our offensive line isn't good enough to consistently run against 8 man fronts-- yet. Second, the bubble screen is not a base play in our offense. Rather, it is a constraint play. SmartFootball.blogspot has an excellent piece on this. Essentially, it is a tool to make sure that the offense plays 7 in the box and not 8. If the defense cheats, we throw the bubble to keep them honest.
The problem then is when a team could stop the 'Noles run with only 7 in the box. Yes, I am beginning to think our OLine is not as good as some believed (including myself). Who could do that? Teams with big front 7's (the defensive line and linebackers).
Boston College 1918lbs, 23 rushes, 82 yards. This one is obvious. Our receiving tight end- sized line couldn't muster any push against these guys. The bubble was useless as BC did not need to cheat to stop the run. They are huge and thankfully their two all-world tackles are graduating.
Wake 1838lbs, 27 rushes for 103 yards. Wake surprised me. They are pretty big. They were able to play the bubble straight up, which worked very well.
Florida 1835lbs, 29 rushes for 137 Big and supremely talented, our rushing success came primarily in garbage time.
Miami 1785lbs, 54 rushes, 281 yards. There is a pretty big drop off from UF to Miami (55lbs). Remember here that our rushing success came primarily on reverses and Ponder running, most of which was a result of Miami's idiotic plan to defense our attack. We bubbled them to death when they went 8 or 9 in the box.
Georgia Tech 1772lbs (I think they were lighter because of major injuries, correct?). 31 rushes, 228 yards. Remember that GTech was missing 2 key linebackers and a safety. Still, this is a big drop in weight from the 3 schools over 1835lbs.
Virginia Tech 1766lbs, 34 rushes, 123 yards. Poor numbers. Explanation? Yes. VT played 8 in the box and manned up on our wide receivers. If you're puzzled, remember what happened: the only thing open was the deep ball. They saturated the running lanes and pressed out men
Clemson 1760lbs, 34 rushes, 281 yards Light front 7? Check. Depending solely on speed to stop the run? Check. Cutbacks? Check.
NC State 1757lbs, 42 rushes, 162 yards These numbers aren't amazing, but much of this game was us trying to control the clock while battling holding penalties. Light front 7? Check. Depending solely on speed to stop the run? Check. Cutbacks? Check.
Maryland 1755lbs, 41 rushes, 172 yards Maryland struggled all game in choosing to defend the bubble or the run.
Colorado 1755lbs, 45 rushes, 259 yards The smallest front we played AND they decided to stop the bubble. Running wild was the obvious result.
There are actually two ways to stop FSU's running game and not get burned by the bubble:
- The first is to have a big, disciplined front 7, that is difficult to cut block. One that takes good angles and doesn't allow cutbacks. This allows teams to play straight upon the receivers.
- Play 8 in the box and play zero coverage-press man against each receiver. Virginia Tech did this and they were eventually burned deep. This requires excellent athletes and a lot of guys.
Our offense really performs well when the opposing team is based on speed and has to beat blockers based on speed and not power. Our agile linemen handle them fine (in run blocking) and reroute them out of the running lane. Our OLine really lacks strength right now, however, and they struggle against big front 7's.
So, does Wisconsin have the ability to do either? Uh... You decide.
Wisconsin had the 2nd worst rushing defense in the Big 10.
Wisconsin just lost their best linebacker (yesterday), Senior middle linebacker Casillas.
Their front 7's combined weight?
1710lbs. Their linebackers? Undisciplined.
Seminoles take your marks...
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"Will Chuck Amato watch film?"
Clown Amato has been VERY busy watching Wisconsin film. He hasn’t been outside since last Monday. In addition, Clown has every Wisconsin game on tape going back 20 years. In between talking about wanting to be a head coach again, and blowing off recruits, Clown has been very very busy.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
I hope your right
I hope deuce finishes his career out with a huge game. I also would like to see Jermaine have a good game on the ground.
Good example ...
of you bubble screen philosophy came in last night’s Giants-Panthers game. Panthers attempted to do with Steve Smith exaclty what you are talking about — whent he Giants put 8 in the box, they tried to run the bubble. Tougher to do in the pros, for obvious reasons, but still effective.
FSUncesored: Will you be sending a Christmas card to Chuck Amato? He seems to have a special place in your heart.
Great job as always, Uncensored.
This is a must-read article for anyone who has to sit near those people at the games (all of us, unfortunately) who are always screaming, “Throw the ball, Jimbo!” or “Where’s the bubble screen!” or “[Run the play that worked last week], dumb***!” Seriously, this is a great, short piece that illustrates simply just one example of how offensive football is more than just hitting the square button vs. the triangle button on a Playstation controller. And in the case of the Boston College game, it illustrates how if your offensive line is getting manhandled, there is basically nothing you can do on offense. This is Football 101.
Good Job
I was parched for lack of footbal content lately. Thank you for laying out the basics and giving insight.
soflafootball is reporting that Phillip Thomas...
Looks great in the dade all star game.
PLEASE give this guy an offer.
If we are not going to get Hosley we better freaking get this guy.
not to worry, we have clown amato on the case.
we are too busy watching wisconsin film.
I probably want this kid the most now.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Here are the recruits I want most.
1. Philip Thomas (game changer from Dade)
2. Starling
3. Sanders
4. Byrd (is he committed yet?)
5. Charles
Debose would be on here if we had a slim shot at him.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
from soflafootball
"FSU fans: You would love to hear what Phillip is saying at half time here. Funny stuff. "
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
I have lost the confidence in our coaches' ability to recognize what we need and target players that fill those needs.
1. Won’t offer Thomas
2. We’ll let Starling go to Georgia
3. A Byrnes player who can actually play? Think this might be the kid we sign so that we can get the 2010 Byrnes kids? Nope. We got Justin Bright. We’re good. \end sarcasm
4. In a year where we are desperate for corners, 3-star Jarvis Byrd will be our coup.
5. Can Charles play defensive end?
On defense. . . imagine that
quite the turnaround from a few years ago.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
It's hard for me to be excited about the future of our program if they are this incapable of bringing in talent.
The only excuse for their performance of late would be if the NCAA told them they were only going to have 19 scholarships this year.
Even then, I would expect them to be dropping Bright and going after Thomas.
It’s gotten very sad in the past 3 weeks.
As always...
excellent stuff. Clearly, our line is small and part of the problem is that they are young. Most high school linemen are not the huge guys that BC or Miami has for an offensive line. Yes there is the occasional 300 pounder, but if they have the speed and strength, will go to the top schools and get spread pretty think across the country. Also, Fisher wants smaller, lean, agile linemen. Be patient and watch this line blossom…they will get bigger as each year passes. I know we have all been waiting for a while, but once this unit who will essentially play together for four years puts on some weight…they will be one of the best in the country. But I think this post clearly demonstrates that we had no success against elite defensive lines with big defensive tackles. I think the key is the size of the tackles as our guys up the middle got worked by Raji. I would be interested to see a break down of the weights of defensive tackles alone and how we did against their weights. Our tackles are athletic enough to handle defensive ends.
"I would be interested to see a break down of the weights of defensive tackles alone and how we did against their weights"
I don’t have the exact numbers right now, but I can tell you that I thought the same thing and was wrong. Outside of Boston College, the defensive tackles weren’t enormous. It seemed to be the combination of large ends and larger backers (Wake’s backers combine for 735lbs)
Good News about
Wisconsin’s defense. I do like to beat teams with their best on the field. No excuse type of football. However, sometimes I welcome hearing bad news (not that I am glad the guy got hurt).
You know, discussion on this site is great. I have recently joined a couple of other SBNation blogs of teams that I follow……ehhhhhhhh, not so good.
I know what you mean.
This is one of the best CFB ones. Others are just dead.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
motivation
Will Florida State be motivated?
That’s a good question. I think they would be motivated… aside from the fact that our head coach was quoted as saying something to the effect of, “who cares, if it’s not for the national championship who cares, there’s more important things than football.”
Apparently Herbstreit picked Wisconsin because they will be very motivated to beat us. This is likely true because Wisconsin probably has a lot more respect for us than ACC and Florida teams, so they look at this as a huge game for them.
Motivation is the one things that I feel much better about with this FSU team compared to prior years, so IMO that won’t be an issue. This FSU team is tough and will play for four quarters.
Schemewise, I won’t act like I know much about Wisconsin, because I don’t, but from the amount of the Pam Ward, grey skies, depressing noon Big Ten football games I’ve unfortunately endured in my lifetime, I can’t say that I’m worried about them outscheming us. Run right, run left, run middle… I think that’s what we can expect.
5 years in a row? Getting beat 45-15 in our house? Second straight time they have beaten us at home en route to the BCS championship? When is this crap going to end? Force Bobby to resign and let Jimbo clean house on the defensive staff. Anything less is doing permanent damage.
FSU has always been up for bowl games
Not to my recollection has FSU had motivational issues at bowl games in prior years and that is something the coaches can take credit for, even though we don’t win all of our bowl games. So I think your right about us being up for this bowl game. Also, Herbstreit and any of the other analysists (or whatever you want to call them) provide no real insight and I think their picks should be taken with a grain of salt.
The lack of respect for Bowden that some fans have is exasperating. I hope you put thought into your quote because taking it out of context is pretty bad considering it is FSU’s head coach. You don’t have to, and probably dont, care what I have to say about it but sheesh… This and someone else was complaining that Bowden publicly dissed the fanbase by calling out the “[playstation gamers]” who think they actually know how to coach since they play a video game, using that as a means to say “its time to take sides and not get along anymore”.
There are more important things than football and once Bowden and JoePa are gone CFB is going to get a lot darker.
I get where you are coming from FSUvaFan,
but I have to think that CFB got darker several years ago. We won’t miss Bowden and JoePa when they go because for all real purposes, they already have gone, in my opinion.
complaining that Bowden publicly dissed the fanbase by calling out the "[playstation gamers]" who think they actually know how to coach since they play a video game, using that as a means to say "its time to take sides and not get along anymore".
Who said that?
the playstation all-americans comment.
it would have been a classic bowden quote except that his son bragged that he just called plays off the top of his head.
Just a random fan on another site.
What Bowden stands for will always provide a little light, even though that doesn’t mean he should be doing all the things he is in terms of coaching. Assuming he sticks to what he beleives in. Same with JoePa. I am frustrated too at the situation and this is my take on this particular two problems:
Bowden is a great coach who cares about the things that ultimately matter most in CFB; at the same time he’s losing his effectiveness at being able to influence players lives for the better. There is a trade off that he might be having to come to terms with if (probably) things don’t turn around when he’s here.
Bowden was right to call out the playstation gamers and everyone knew it. No one would appreciate someone coming up to them at their job and saying, you should have done this or that because thats how I did it on a video game and be calling for your dismissal. The calling for dismissal wasn’t out of line (deserved), it was the substance of evidence that Jeff was doing a poor job in that arguement that was weak.
The Playstation All Americans quote was a deflection.
Nothing more, nothing less.
People who think they could do better than Jeff did because they played PS2 are ridiculous and should not be listened to.
People who saw what a terrible offensive coordinator he was and wanted better for the program had a legitimate concern that should have been addressed. This group understood that Group 1 was just as misguided as the coordinator they were united against.
Bobby lumped both of these sets of people into the same group and basically said that he was the only one who was allowed to understand football because he had been coaching for 150 years and because the knowledge of the football ancestors had been left to him in a sealed golden urn.
Bobby couldn’t, or simply wouldn’t, address the root of the problem, which was horrible offensive recruiting, motivating, gameplanning, and coaching because it was his son. He instead chose to tell every fan who wasn’t satisfied with the result on the field that they were stupid and had no right to disagree with mediocrity.
Bobby has said in the past that family is more important than football. He’s absolutely right. I salute him for defending Jeff and Tommy. But he isn’t paid 2 million dollars a year to be a great father. He’s paid, very well might I add, to be an effective football coach. He’s not, and hasn’t been for a while now. But instead of taking responsibility and trying to fix the problem, he has consistently attacked and belittled much of the fanbase that keeps him going.
Now, if you will excuse me, I’m about to win the title in my dynasty.
Bobby made a mistake hiring his son.
No doubt about it and he was stubborn to the programs detriment. Then wasn’t the time to start ironing out family quality time issues. I do think Bowden honestly though that Jeff could turn it around and that more time was needed, because when Bowden started as a coach coaches apparently had more time to prove themselves.
I had to give away my NCAA games because I spent waayyyy to much time on them (to the point where I did nothing), but now that Christmas break is here I think I’ll rent it… Good luck on your dynasty. The last one I played the opposing offense averaged 92 yards per game… I always wanted to know how that stacked up against others?
Agreed, but
we are very weak physically right now and were also worked by big linebackers and big defensive ends. It will come.
Don't forget the weather
Supposed to be sunny and 80 Saturday in Orlando.
Compare that to today in Madison — snow and 24F.
Fourth quarter could be ugly.
I agree
Let’s take the ball first, however, to put them in desperation mode and hopefully encourage them to abandon the run.
Have they shown any propensaty to do that? Some teams will stick with it even long after they should have abandoned it. When I think of Wisconsin I think of Ron Dayne not Chris Chambers.
Their passing offense is dreadful--
Ahead of only Michigan, Indians, Illinois, and Minnesota in the Big10 (conference play numbers only).
I have no doubt Wisky will stick with the run. The question in my mind is how much singleback gun stuff do they impliment, ya know? Andrews absolutely owns 2-back offense based under center.
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