Thursday Rumblings and Recruiting talk
- I am hearing that OC Patrick Nix is out at Miami and Tulsa OC Gus Malzahn is in as offensive coordinator. This is really bad for us. Nix was terrible and Malzahn is excellent. Others are now saying this is not true. I am not sure what to believe here. Both people I've heard from have provided solid information for us in the past.
- I am very confident that Mickey Andrews is done after the bowl game and that FSU HCIW Jimbo Fisher will be allowed to select the new defensive staff. My confidence level has improved from "I think this very well could happen" to "I would be very surprised if this did not happen." Tomorrow we will begin our official Tomahawk Nation and Chantrant search for Florida State's next great defensive coordinator. This search becomes all the more important with Miami picking up Malzahn.
- Sources differ on the Jimbo to Auburn front, but I think he will stay. Hopefully the administration quickly moved to assure him that he will be the head coach sooner rather than later.
Your recruiting question of the day... inside
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Comments
DC
IMO, Steele is a no-brainer top choice, although I’m dubious we could get him.
One question I haven’t heard asked: Who will be our OFFENSIVE coordinator when Jimbo takes over as HC? Even the great Urban Meyer has an OC that calls plays. Wonder who Jimbo will bring in…
On recruiting. I’d like the offensive lineman to be fast AND big!!
On WRs, I prefer a mix — it’s nice to line up somebody like Carr on one side and Bert Reed on the other.
Steele is one holdover from
the 2003-2006 staff (besides Odell) that I would even want to stay or come back.
I think it should be a mix still
I think you should get a big fat slow but very strong center, 2 very small but fast guards and a good size T and a smaller faster T. Then you start to rotate them around depending on the play you call. when you run a screen have the faster guys on that side most of the times. when you have a running play have the big guys on that side or have your guaeds and T flop to thow people off
I like a smaller center who can be more agile
And I don’t know about flopping players around too much, the defense will pick up on it.
I think all you need is 5 guys who are tough, smart, quick and decently strong, and you’re all set.
I think all you need is 5 guys who are tough, smart, quick and decently strong, and you’re all set.
about recruiting
I think that you kinda need a mix. When you have a team with big DT and DE you dont have to biltz like we do because the big guys can get the little guys out the way. However when you have little guys they can release to LB and the secondary. I think 2 great Exp here are EB. Hes smaller but fast and the only times he was stoped was when he was Dub teamed. Then you have to 2 guys from BC. There size killed our Smaller faster guys. I would like to see us 2 big DT and one big LB then the DE fast and the OLB fast more like a S. I would like to see 6’0 fast true CB and fast SS. I think speed kills but you have to have some beef up frount. On Off. I think the same thing speed but no matter what you have to have at least on true power back not speed but shear power. We havent had one in a long time. We need someone that can go through people on short yard.
I still like the Idea of going with the 3-4
I know it sounds sad but Ive been using this Def in NCAA09 and Im falling for it. I have always been a fan of a 5-2 cover 2/3. With the 3-4 you can get both speed and STR. You can have 3DT that are just big to stop anything in the mid. and 2 LB that are reg LB then have to OLB/LB/SS that are fast as the outside guys to cover slot WR/Blitzs. FSUncensored got me to look at this Def. and I realy think at FSU with the Off we see from GT to BC/Maryland we could stop them all much easyer.
The way we churn out linebackers
a 3-4 might not be the worst idea…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 4, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not an expert...
so take this with a grain of salt, but I always thought in a 3-4 the D-line is basically there to be block absorbers, leaving the backers free to make plays. Most of the time you have a stand-up LB whos only job is to rush the passer (a la Terrell Suggs or Joey Porter).
As for the defensive backfield, I don’t know what you need differently in a 3-4 than a 4-3.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 4, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
This is true.
You basically need bigger guys down to absorb double teams. If the 3 down linemen can absorb 4 blockers, that’s a win. It’s a big win if the 3 down can somehow absorb 5.
Makes sense
That’s why the Steelers D linemen are all gigantic.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 4, 2008 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Branden Smith
what are the chances we are going to get smith? and who else might we pursue in the CB position?
Doubtful.
Hosley looks to be our best bet right now. If only the staff would offer him. Maybe the new staff will get right on that.
Tulsas offense is REALLY GOOD
But the teams in the CUSA this year are terrible.
I would rather have small quick guys at tackle, but a little more size inside. I know this is contradictory to the NFL whose tackles are giant, but you really need someone with good footwork at tackle, and esp. in the ACC. Inside I would like to have guys who can move but are more dominant with their strength. Yes we have an advantage because our interior lineman can get to the LB’s, but if you can’t block the DT’s, is this really an advantage?
The only negative to Trickett's linemen.
Is that if he leaves we are absolutely screwed for several years. Suddenly we have tiny lineman that are being coached by someone used to the big boys.
He’s not the youngest guy either. David Castillo is still in town in med school, I wonder if he has any coaching aspirations.
I would love to see McMahon or a former Trickett guy take over. Trick does have a few assistants that run with him around campus.
Grooming a successor is essential.
Making a switch to a new OL style...
would be as bad as Nebraska going straight from the option to the west coast.
Mickey
well, he is still recruiting… if that means anything.
5 years in a row? Getting beat 45-15 in our house? Second straight time they have beaten us at home en route to the BCS championship? When is this crap going to end? Force Bobby to resign and let Jimbo clean house on the defensive staff. Anything less is doing permanent damage.
Think Jimbo offers Nix a job?
Out of sheer loyalty to a former player? We’ll soon have an extra coaching spot. Maybe Coley could stay at TE coach and OC. Nix can help Jimbo with the QBs…..
Naaaah.
NO. I would pitch a fit.
Everywhere he has gone people have seriously complained about him.
JIMBO HC/ QB
Coley: OC/ TE
Trickett: OL
Dawsey: WR
I think Carter is toast, so not sure who coached RB’s.
Are there any
DCs that Jimbo has prior ties too that we could possibly get? In regards to malzahn to miami, he is a great coordinator, but i dont know if his style would work at miami.
Lineman
About the recruiting question, i like the idea of having smaller, quicker lineman but some of our guys look way too small.
does size mater
what is the dif between a guy that is 270-290 that benches 350-400lb and a guy that is 285-310 that benches 375-430. I dont know what guys in college bench these days but I think If we get smaller guys I would want them to be stronger guys really than just faster.
i always wondered as well
they always talk about how much antone can bench, how strong he is but he’s a small guy. i’m sure he can bench more than Greg Jones could have but Jones is the one who’s gonna knock a CB’s helmet off….
sorry i know we were talking about lineman but i was trying to emphasize the debate
of size vs strength
well I think EB is a good exp.
EB is not a big guy realy but hes strong and fast. I think on the out side thats a good thing. I liked how they mixed him up and put him at a DT sometimes. In the end I still would take size and STR in the mid over smaller but faster. at least on Def. On Of I think you need at leas 2 big guys that can still block the other big guys. that way you dont have to dud team every play and have the other roll off to try to get to a lb in time.
I'm sure he'll have fun in South Beach.
He’ll also love the tremendous fan support Dah U gets. Best in nation, bar none.
ncensored
what do you think about Reuban Randle? Obviously he isn’t an FSU recruit but his recruitment is interesting to say the least. Miami was out of it, and then POOF they are back in it. Dah U claims it is between the canes and Oklahoma, with Bama and LSU out of it. I personally think he is Bama bound.
Christian Green
2010 QB prospect is the nephew of EG Green. Runs a 4.45 40, is 6-2 and a bit under 200 pounds. FSU was the first to offer… think he’s ours to lose?
And what happened to Andre Debose? At first it looked like he was an FSU lean, now people are saying it’s down to LSU/UF and we are out of it… is that true?
Christian Green is a big time FSU lean. He is also a big time player.
As for Debose, I think it was a multitude of factors, the big one being UF’s offensive explosion in the middle of the season. Heard he committed to L$U a while back. (Although with L$U, it’s not entirely out of the question that he was paid.) I hope he goes to L$U however to keep him away from UF.
Recruiting...
I think we take 2 QBs next year, so we should probably be on him pretty hard. I also personally like Sims from VA. Gives us 2 QBs with 2 pretty different styles.
I doubt we get Debose. Hopefully we can get Ricco Sanders as I feel he is of the same mold.
IMO Debose > Sanders
I want Sanders though. Another plus if we get Sanders is that Brynes connection to Lattimore, Willis, and Corey Miller.
Yes Debose is better.
But Ricco is good. Would make a good slot receiver here when and if Bert Reed strikes out.
True.
His career will eventually go up in smoke.
But the longer we can postpone it the better.
Anyway, I hope we get Sanders.
I just mean that some people feel the timing suggests that #2 wasn't for what we are implying, but for something like...
sleeping in a meeting. In that case, he has one strike at worst, and none at best (as least as far as the “up in smoke”) stuff is concerned.
Debose is much better. There isn't much question. Now, when Debose picks Florida, we will get Sanders, in my opinion.
Let me point out that I just think Sanders is the same style of player.
Shifty, fast, and can make plays with the ball in his hands.
We won’t get Debose. But Sanders is a good player as well.
This is so far up the thread it might not get read, but...
I am not sure that 2 different styles is a good thing. I think that we should take the best players that fit into our system. I would think that unless a QB is good enough to build a system around, all the QBs we take should have the same “style”. One may be better at scrambling, and one may have a stronger arm, but they should fit into a rough “mold”. Having a change-up QB to put in for trick plays is nice, but I would rather have a back-up that you can plug in and run the whole offense.
Carter
I keep seeing Carter is out… why? Looks like he’s done a good job with Jermaine Thomas so far… or is he not recruiting well enough?
Tell me it's not true that we've only offered TWO corners who are currently uncommitted?
And both of them are can’t miss guys… one is most definitely not coming here, the other is unlikely to come here.
That’s not really going to help our cornerback situation.
Jayron Hosley would though.
Next Janoris Jenkins (in terms of impact) me thinks. (insert steaming red angry face at Mickey and staff).
Better not move Harley to corner. Prototypical FS.
Does he even have the hips to play corner? Jaime Robinson part 2.
I think that must be what they are planning on.
Or else we are going to run a 4 safety scheme in the coming years.
If we get Starling I definitely see them moving Harley to corner.
Good point
Most likely by the time we see Harley or any of our DB commits getting considerable PT, we will have a new DC and DB coach.
I think prospects at safety will play soon.
Downs definitely. Harley would see the field if he stayed at free safety.
Starling and Demps would at least be in the rotation.
So I think we’ll be fine in the coming years at safety.
The problem is we desperately need corners who can handle considerable playing time right away, and we aren’t going to get them. Hosley would help out immensely.
I think Starling would see
the field over Harley and Demps. I want Downs at safety, but think he will be a WR.
Harley might be our only FS recruit
So I think he’d play quickly.
My dream class would be:
R- Starling, Demps, Bright, Downs
FS- Harley
CB- Brinson, Hosley
That would give us depth at rover and even let us think about having Downs at WR.
Obviously we’d need a lot of help at FS and CB next recruiting season.
I wouldn't mind.
Would he want to play safety? I don’t want another Marcus Sims playing out of position.
Not sure. ESPN doesn't think he has the vision or ability to play RB in a zone scheme.
They literally say “he will struggle mightily in a zone scheme”
That's odd... rivals put up a new video of him today which I saw
And vision looked like his best attribute, to me.
I feel like we have enough at safety, we could use some RB help. JT looks very good but who knows what will do as the #1 back, and Pressley is obviously just as if not more unproven.
By the way I think that means
We should recruit the crap out of Joyner, Phillips, Ogletree, and Furman immediately.
I would hope they watch game tape at Rivals. He should be.
It’s between him and Matt Elam for top spot in FLA.
I tend to think so. He just has crazy explosiveness and you rarely see that used
on defense in high school. He loves us as well.
Dang the Gators for Elam
but Joyner is better. Sean Taylor redux. (not talking about body) Talking about style.
Another thought on Joyner (aka Reggie Nelson/Sean Taylor)
put him back there like those two safeties and let him roam around making plays.
Definition of a must-sign.
I like the other guys I mentioned too, because I think we will need at least 4 guys that can play FS and CB next year to go with our 3-4 SS recruits this year.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but you know this staff would
solve a lot of problems by just offering Jayron Hosley.
If you do it, make sure to consider our insane attempts to get freak athletes to play corner, rather than
have a good athlete with good hips play corner. I guess it would actually involve teaching good technique and not praying that the athlete will turn into Antonio Cromartie.
Morgan Moses says FSU is still in the picture as of a few weeks ago
Anyone think we got a shot?
I’d like to see us get a little more on the line this class. I know Trickett will probably pull some guys nobody’s ever heard of again, but it’d sure be nice to see what he could do with some “top” talent.
No subscriptions anywhere, but this bit from the Scout profile scares the crap out of me.
“Moses reports a 2.4 core GPA and claims he’s never taken the SAT or ACT. He’s scheduled to take the SAT for the first time in September. Currently, Moses is in summer school repeating English 9.”
Hopefully that update is 2 years old. Otherwise I see us recruiting him again in 2 years.
Texting and message boards have ruined American grammar.
their aut 2 b a law. im gonna call mai congresman. U call urs 2.
mine neither
it was a bunch of story maps. One day of grammar a year before the Gateway. Of course, I loved no grammar.
We didn't do grammar either
lots of poetry/shakespeare and the like, with a bit of vocab sprinkled in.
No Women’s southern Lit in suburban Chicago either :)
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Dec 4, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
so where do you get your stuff
Im not trying to know your sorces but you say MA might be out. How cred. is this. I agree hes one of the best in his time and would wish him all the most and cant wait to see him in the CF HOF.
how did I know you would say that
its like the 1st amed. stuff right. cant tell your source. thats cool as long as you keep up the great job. I have your back
I think my top DC choice at this point would be
Kirby Smart from Bama, although I keep reading ECU’s Greg Hudson on some other site. That’s literally the only name being mentioned.
by Dent Street Nole on Dec 4, 2008 8:16 PM EST reply actions
This weekend will be interesting to watch.
If Alabama’s defense succeeds there will be a lot of FSU fans calling for Smart or Steele.
Just make it a young guy who thinks outside of the box
And refuses to lose. Last thing we need is another guy using defenses that stop 1980s offenses. We don’t stand a chance against teams like Florida if we don’t play defense like it’s 2008.
Florida's Offense, from Smart Football
If the old running offenses of yesteryear, in reflecting earlier times, were like punishing boxers who engaged in matches where the biggest and strongest won, then offenses like Johnson’s and Meyer’s, in reflecting their times, are like martial arts: without sacrificing either strength or power, they punish you but also use speed, quickness, and cleverness to hit you where you do not expect and probe to find your weak spots, and to exploit them, without mercy.
I think people are over looking something about UF
There guys are not just faster they are faster, bigger, and stronger. they are not small guys. They are 4 and 5 star guys that have a great str and con coach. UF can play smash mouth football with the best but its this trick plays and misdirection that throws so many people off. with the speed to out run anyone.
Malzahn
You’ve managed to get an entire ’Canes message board in a frenzy. Nice job.
He's very good. I don't want him at Miami.
Has Shannon finally commented on this?
You are aware that he had his top QB commit de-commit today.
You mean Tulsa had a QB de-commit today? Interesting.
Shannon hasn’t said a thing. In fact, a few days ago on the radio Shannon was saying how Nix has been doing a good job. Could just be total BS of course.
None of the “insiders” on our board have heard anything. At least one has heard from an assistant coach that supposedly Nix is supposed to return.
Yes. He de-committed and went to Okie State
I did amend the thing around 4 because a guy I talk to a lot said he thought it was BS. Tough when you have contradicting sources.
I would tend to agree with the source saying it is BS
but who knows. Just seems too good to be true.
Malzahn+Jacory Harris+those receivers+our current talent at DB and our current DC=
bad news for us. I take back what I said earlier.
Class projection
I know it’s still very early but I’m in a procrastinating mood and this gives me something to do…
current commits:
RB – Thompson
RB – Pryor
WR – Haulstead
WR – Downs
WR – Smith
WR – Rhodes
TE – Stork
OL – Prior
OL – Orelus
DT – McDaniel
DT – McAllister
DE – Jenkins
DE – Stinson
LB – Mizell
S – Harley
S – Demps
S – Bright
K – Hopkins
and future commits:
WR – Sanders
OL – lower ranked guy Trickett likes
OL – lower ranked guy Trickett likes
LB – Ferrell
CB – Hosley
S – Starling
What do you guys think? And what about this TE on the front of warchant? Do we have a decent chance?
I've said for a while that we have a good shot at Orson Charles. I know for a fact we've never send him stuff.
I don’t think we take ANY more offensive linemen, and I don’t think we take Ferrell.
I do like the projection of Sanders, Hosley (please), and Starling.
Also, most no longer consider Stinson an FSU commit and really think it is a BAMA- LSU battle.
Good job TDC.
Oh, and I think Rhodes is projected at CB not WR.
Agree about Ferrell and the O-line.
Sanders, Hosley, and Starling would be great.
We’ve already lost Stinson and I don’t think we get Vernon. We really need another DE in my opinion. Maybe somebody could sway Mackey, otherwise I’ve got no idea.
I still think Brinson is out there as an option that could be instead of, but hopefully in addition to, Hosley. If course if we got both, who knows what Rhodes would do.
My final commits would probably be (note: these are probably only accurate for about 30 minutes until my mind changes):
Starling
Hosley
Sanders
Thornton
Travis
Charles
Notice we’d be getting a ton of DT prospects. I think this for two reasons: the possibly of shifting to a 3-4 scheme where we’d need big linemen, and we will be recruiting the Byrnes boys and a few other DE prospects hard next year.
Inform me please....
I honestly do not know, but can’t remember the last time a team won the national title with a 3-4. In fact, I can’t think of any dominant defenses that have run this in the last 15 years. I don’t like it, I don’t think it is a good inside run defense, and I dont want it at FSU.
I know everyone on here
is mad at Micky for the job he’s been doing, but getting a DC to run a 3-4 is not the solution. It’s an overreaction.
Esp if we want to compete
against UF and the spread. Terrible Idea. I’m going to stop posting because I think you get my frustration with the ‘possibility’ of this.
I understand your frustration.
Here’s why I have moved towards a 3-4 style defense.
Talent. Speed.
UF (just using them as they are the best example) is very fast on offense. I think in order to compete with spread teams we will need to match their athletes with our own. I think having an extra linebacker allows us to do that.
Our linebackers are our best athletes (since we whiff on so many DBs). Why not let them on the field?
Maybe you’re right and a complete system change is an overreaction. I am perfectly willing to admit that. But I at least want a coach who will consider the possibility if it gives us an advantage.
B the W nobody had won a National Championship with an offense like UF’s either…. until they did it.
I agree with you about the change kinda
I like the 3-4 or a 5-2 what ever you want to call it. I would rather run a nickle than a 4-3 like we do. But I would be happy to get a guy that runs the 4-3 and cam make our Def what is expected out of FSU def. thats all
the 3-4
With the 3-4 you have 3 down lineman and 2 OLB/ DE that can rush or drop back in coverage. then you have 2 MLB that can do the same. Its very close to what we do now. The only dif is you need the 3 Down lineman to be just big strong guys. they stop everything in the mid and make the RB bounce outside where the 4 fast LB can get to them. With Blizting thrown in there it make the 5-6 guys on Off have to block 3-5 guys but be acountable for all 7. With the spread Off so big it would almost stop all screens/ Draws/ and cutbacks on the zone read.
Alabama runs this and Auburn effectively ran it when beating UF last year.
I have problems with it, but not for the reasons you listed. E-Mail me, and maybe we can co-author a piece on the 3-4.
Go back to that clip that someone posted of LSU and the Laron Landry blitz...
Having two very athletic LB/DE on the outside lets you get very creative with who blitzes and from where. If you have a “DE” that can run in space and cover, it makes a huge difference. Plus one of you’re 3 down linemen is still like a True DE to rush on the opposite of the LB. Look at what Terell Suggs did in his rookie year. He was a walk up line backer that “blitzed/rushed” in passing situations….very effective with the right personnel.
The main problem with running a 3-4 in college is the complete lack of quality 325LB+ nose guards
Guys who are that big in college and GOOD are extremely rare. This is why you see, for the most part, older NG’s in the NFL. They have added size over time. Ted Washington wasn’t 360 in college. He put on probably 5 lbs per year in the NFL (muscle and fat). ’Bama has Cody this year, the most dominant force in college football. Good luck keeping the special nose guard for 4 years. It is a personnel issue.
you have McAllister as an DT
I thought he was a DE but with his size would we move him in and teach him the DT pos. I know there is not that much dif.
I would argue...
that there is a significant difference between DT and DE…The space that you are required to contain is significantly larger at the DE position, you have to be able to jack the TE before he gets out on routes and you’re on an island…
The mindset between the two positions is very different as well. While it can be done, it isn’t an easy natural position position change, especially for someone who is used to being outside. When you suddenly have multiple double teams and you’re trying to stuff and maintain a gap, it can be very disorienting for a former DE.
When I played, I moved from DT to DE and I was delighted and thankful…very very different games. Again, not to say that you can’t move back and forth (see the New York Giants) but it isn’t always a smooth transition.
I want what Trickett wants at this point.
Trickett saved much of our season and apparently knows what he’s doing (not saying that your suggesting he doesn’t).
Tricket seems try to best of both worlds, where the linemen are more agile and try to use their technique to block the more agile defenders due to the spread, but can also attempt to wear down the opponents by working them so hard they have more stamina than the other team. I say we go back to no huddle if our linemen are in as good of shape and hopefully will never be as collectively as young as they were before. That would have really taken a toll on BC (I think) with their chunky DL.
My personal preference would be whatever type of linemen best suits a fast paced offense. I would still enjoy FSU football if we became a team that primarily ran the ball all the time and tried to wear other teams out in the 4th, but not as much.
The Denver Broncos...
have a great model for an offensive lines. All of their guys are “around” 300lbs and in the 6’4 to 6’6 range. They are fit, agile, aggressive and strong. This is the type of offensive line that Trickett and Jimbo need to develop if we are going to move into a zone blocking team that throws in screens and a lot of misdirection. You don’t need the gigantic 6’7 320lb tackles to have an effective offensive line. I like the guys who are in the 6’4 to 6’5 height because they can still get low enough to get good leverage but it gives them long enough arms to pass block well, keeping DTs off their pads. The guys that Trickett has currently will develop into an incredible unit. They need to get stronger (and they will with the right off season program). They have the speed and agility. The longer they are together the better they will get. We don’t need the fat kid out of Oklahoma to make this a better O-line. Get the kid who understand football, is smart, has quick feet, good hands and a frame that can add some muscle. That will go farther than the blob who takes up space.
Trickett the x-jarhead
I think he is makeing them have more stamana because its just what hes use to. Im in the Mil and its just a way of life for us. This is a good thing and I think if we can get a few guys to come in and help out and rotait them right we could wear down any team out there even UF. But we are a long(but not to far) way from that. I think by the mid of next year the Off will just click. This off season FSU needs to work on STR and stamana. with there speed I think we could get to a point where no one i the ACC can out score us and we dont have to rely on the Def. as much. That will make the Def work harder themselfs.
Have You Noticed
Trickett seems in most cases to recruit prospects with good GPA averages who are serious about college. Faircloth was offered at Vandy. Snider the other greyshirt is a coaches son and hit 308 as a baseball player in Alabama.
He offered the one kid from Orlando who picked Duke also can’t think of his name right off. Datko, Sanders and some of the rest of them all seem to have over 3.0 GPAs. This is good because it means they most likely stick around the entire four years and complete a degree and Trickett does not lose all the time coaching them also and then have a kid leave for the NFl.
There is a trade off in having a sure fire All American who leaves maybe after two years and an above average player you can coach up the entire four years and have him reach his full potential his senior year somehwhat like Dan Mozes the two star at WVU Trickett turned into an All American.
It just seems to me that is Trickett’s strategy.
I see your point, Doc
but I think it is tempered somewhat because offensive linemen rarely turn pro early.

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