Andrew Carter gets in on the NCAA Penalty Musings

by FSUncensored on Jan 20, 2009 2:58 AM EST in FSU Football Comment 18 comments

... and other Nole Notes

Let's break down what Andrew Carter had to say. I'll also share what I've been hearing lately.

Andrew Carter is a fine writer for the Orlando Sentinel. Today, he has a piece on the possible NCAA penalties. Go read it and then let's break it down.

Carter expects the sanctions to be handed down this week. I expect the penalties to be here soon. Remember that they can hold the sanctions without releasing them for a sort of "sinking in period." http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/1/9/714822/does-florida-state-already

Carter doesn't expect FSU to receive any postseason ban.

I agree and let's make this very clear: our probation is not a bowl-ban type of probation. Instead, it is a type of evaluation period in which the program must be on its best behavior. Carter cites the impracticability of banning all FSU teams from the post season, and that's a good point.

Carter doesn't see us losing victories.

The standard for vacating wins is: the organization can force one of its members' programs to vacate victories and championships if it's discovered that a team used an ineligible athlete during competition. Carter says that the University will appeal any punishment of this type. To me, that shows that we are still more concerned with building statues than returning an elite product to DCS.

Carter thinks that the NCAA needs to be careful in how is punishes FSU, because FSU self-reported.

The point here is that if you harshly punish schools who self report their violations, the schools won't report the violations in the future. USC had Reggie Bush living in a 700K house off campus and have completely stonewalled the NCAA. It's well documented that FSU probably didn't handle this very well.

AC would not be surprised to see the scholarship losses double from 5 over 2 years to 10 or so over 3 years.

We told you about this last week. http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/1/15/724775/ncaa-report-rumblings Carter and I probably share similar sources on this, though I can't be sure. As previously reported, Carter and I agree on the certainty of increased scholarship reductions.

Carter says our Probation will be lengthened.

I didn't bother to mention this last week (see above piece), but he is totally right. I just assumed it would happen.

The NCAA will rip us publicly.

I don't care. The only thing that matters is what the penalties are. Who cares what the Judge says to you as he is letting you free?

Neither FSU nor the NCAA wants to deal with an appeals process, which could be lengthy.

As we told you on Thursday, this is why it is taking so long. FSU wants to negotiate a deal it can live with. The NCAA doesn't want to do this appeals process.

Side issue: can the NCAA impose more penalties upon appeal? Can they revise their sanctions?

This gets at a bigger issue, however, and that is fairness. FSU played by the rules in reporting themselves. The NCAA doesn't want to do anything to discourage programs from self reporting. They don't have subpoena power. If schools don't perceive a tangible advantage to self reporting, they will not report anything to the NCAA. The NCAA doesn't have the resources to operate like the FBI.

Progress?

Take this for what it is worth, but one of the people (2) who gave me the pieces to write last week's NCAA story, is now more optimistic. In fact, he said that FSU strongly plays the "hey, we followed your reporting rules" card, and doesn't expect to lose its track championship. He said things might look a "little better" for football, than what we came out with last Thursday, but declined to elaborate more.

Wish I had more than that, but this could all be over very soon.

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Comments

this looks good for the school but bad for us

First FSUncensored on Jan 20, 2009 2:58 AM EST Dude its called sleep its ok for you to put the computer down have a beer and get some sleep. JK.

I can only speek for myself and I think this is great news for eveyone who wants FSU to keep BB for one more run. This would mean he keeps the wins and is still only one behind JoPa. I was really hope this would take his games and he would not have a reason to come back.

About the way it would look on the school and the NCAA because of the way they truned themselfs in this will almost be funny. Its like this, my wife is a clean freak. I can not clean to her standard. Im not a slob but I just dont dust once a week, and I do the cloths maybe once a week. I look at it as why should I do this shes going to complain ether way. The NCAA is going to be the same way. Why turn ourselfs in when they will punnish us and we could lose X like FSU for doing the right thing. Prob. made no sence to any of you.

in the end I feel FSU players messed up and need to be punnished for what they did. The question is how bad is what they did. If someone cheats on a test for a class what is the punnishment for them. if they get kicked out the class so be it, if the get kicked out the school well sucks to be them. I do want to say the teacher for the online class is retarded. How long have they had the same tests. Come on, that is just as much as the schools falt to some point.

by Desman on Jan 20, 2009 4:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like the wife example.

And you bring up a very important point about the teacher being dumb here. Only by the strictest of codes would a former student be expected not to discuss former tests.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Jan 20, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My $.02

I hope the University can negotiate keeping the track championship and reducing the scholarship losses to around 10-13 over all sports. (7-8 for football). As a sacrifice fly, they should allow the NCAA to take away the ’07 season. This would be sacrifices on both sides and actually help the program out more than anything else could.

I want Bobby and the gang gone in 2010. They have worn out the welcome in my opinion and have abused the right to leave when they choose inclination most of us had at one time.

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Jan 20, 2009 7:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I still expect around 11 scholarships over the next 3 years.

And I also still think we can use about half of those this year and be fine.

I would trade the 2007 football season for the Track National Championship if it came down to it. The purpose of the Florida State athletic program is NOT to make Bobby Bowden’s resumé look good.

Now, I wonder if that statement was negative enough to end up on another blog. Maybe I should try to skew meaner.

by MattDNole on Jan 20, 2009 8:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Crap... I forgot that we already self-reduced our football scholarships by 2 for the 2008 season.

Something along the lines of 7-8 scholarships lost over the next 2 years (in addition to the 2 we already took away) would put us at 9-10 total. I think we could manage a team at 81-82 players for the next two seasons.

by MattDNole on Jan 20, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree about the Track

Nat’l Championship. If you look at athletics as far more than the football and basketball programs, having national championships to your school’s credit is great. We will still have the 2nd most winningest coach, either way.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jan 20, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"The purpose of the Florida State athletic program is NOT to make Bobby Bowden’s resumé look good."

How sad is it that that would be considered a contraversial statement? But you’re right. How dare you, sir? Florida State wouldn’t even have a track and field program if not for Bobby Bowden! Geez, I’m beginning to wonder if my joking around is parody or simply quotes from paysite messageboards.

by TRMNole on Jan 20, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Appeals?

You would know a lot more than I would FSUncensored, but could they really further the penalty under an appeal?

As you know, you wouldn’t be able to do this in the court of law, unless it was the prosecution appealing a light decision (which just doesn’t happen). I am not familiar with the NCAA appeals process, but I would imagine it would be a review of the decision to make sure it was fair, and accurate.

Appeals are 99% of the time, just hogwash. It is just a formality, and I expect there is going to be an appeal filed if any of the penalties are increased.

As far as probation….what does this mean for the program? Neither you nor AC elaborated on this ,maybe because it should be common knowledge. Does this deal with the school’s behavior or players? For example, If a player decides to cheat in class….we suspend him for 4 games is this going to be reported to the NCAA as a “strike?”

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jan 20, 2009 9:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great Question About Probation!

We haven’t had a stellar record when it comes to bonehead off the field actions by some of the players, especially on the football team. Would a lawn chair brawl, a baggie of weed, or a concealed firearm count as strikes against the program? How about skipping class? We seem to have an epedimic of that lately…

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman

by Nattylite on Jan 20, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You would know a lot more than I would FSUncensored, but could they really further the penalty under an appeal?

I have heard that they can and this struck me as odd.

I expect there is going to be an appeal filed if any of the penalties are increased.

I hear otherwise, which leads me to believe they are brokering a deal that will include a “no appeals” clause.

As far as probation….what does this mean for the program? Neither you nor AC elaborated on this ,maybe because it should be common knowledge. Does this deal with the school’s behavior or players? For example, If a player decides to cheat in class….we suspend him for 4 games is this going to be reported to the NCAA as a "strike?"

They want to make sure that we don’t have other major violations. The NCAA basically expects minor violations. Individual acts by players, when not part of a greater pattern of program instability, won’t rise to that level. A player with a concealed weapon won’t do it. If we get 15 arrests in a year, like Georgia… yeah

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by FSUncensored on Jan 20, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Jan 20, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"I hope the University can negotiate keeping the track championship and reducing the scholarship losses to around 10-13 over all sports. (7-8 for football). As a sacrifice fly, they should allow the NCAA to take away the ’07 season. This would be sacrifices on both sides and actually help the program out more than anything else could.

I want Bobby and the gang gone in 2010. They have worn out the welcome in my opinion and have abused the right to leave when they choose inclination most of us had at one time."

That about sums it up for me to nattylite.

From what I have heard FSU has operated about four or five scholarships short the last few years anyway. I don’t know if that is true however.

I would think if players don’t start carrying AKs and breaking the collegiate records for arrests like some schools we know of, everything should be fine on the probation.

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 21, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs