The Bobby Bowden Contract: A mere formality?
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 12:58 PM EST
in FSU Football
109 comments
A few weeks ago while everyone was concerned about the possibility of Florida State offensive line coach Rick Trickett leaving to take another job as he was frustrated with the lack of progress on a contract extension, I began to hear some really outlandish rumors about the Bowden contract. I initially dismissed them but they piqued my interest as these whispers certainly could impact the Rick Trickett contract situation if they were true. FSU Athletic Director Randy Spetman said that he would do the Bowden deal first and then talk shop with Trickett. Specifically, I heard that there might be some trouble getting the contract done.
Remember that over a month ago (Dec 16th), Spetman said he expects Bowden to sign another one year deal soon. Bowden made a little over $2,200,000.00 in 2008. Despite having talks right after the bowl game, no contract was signed. On January 5th, Andrew Carter innocuously wrote that Randy Spetman, the Florida State athletic director, told the Orlando Sentinel earlier today that he's hopeful Bobby Bowden and FSU will agree on a new one year contract "within the week." That week has passed and yet another week has passed. Still no Bowden contract. What gives? A month after Bowden was expected to sign another one year deal, he has not. This was supposed to be an easy process, remember? These days, Bowden's contract is on a 1-year cycle. It's up to him whether he stays or goes, and Bowden says all he needs to do is call FSU President T.K. Wetherell and let him know of his plans. "After each year," Bowden said, "I let ‘em know whether I plan to come back."
Maybe it is not that easy. If it were that easy, Bowden would already have signed the deal. This is where things get interesting. Since Bowden has not signed the deal, only several things could have gone wrong. Bowden has clearly had time to sign the deal and not getting it done is clearly a slap in the face of Rick Trickett, whose fears were assuaged last week but still has to be frustrated over not getting an extension to date. It's not like Bowden and FSU haven't been able to get together; Bobby probably knows where their offices are located. This problem is rooted in intent, terms, or both. If Bobby doesn't want to come back, or can't make up his mind, the delay is easily explained. He really needs to make up his mind, however, because if he retires Jimbo will need time to find replacements for the defensive staff members he might choose to dismiss.
What if the problem isn't intent at all, but one of terms? I was initially skeptical about a rumor I had hear two week ago, but the rumor has persisted. I'll present it to you as it was told to me:
You're spot on about Bowden wanting three years. Bowden came in and asked for three years. The university literally laughed out loud at this. FSU told Bowden that he could have a one year offer, the same as 2008, with no increase. In the alternative, they presented him with an offer of 3.5 Million to retire permanently. Bobby and his agent stormed out of the meeting. Since then, the Bowden camp has acted like a petulant child, not returning calls, won't respond to repeated attempts from the university to find out what Bowden will do. FSU needs to know what his choice is in order to proceed with their plans, specifically getting the Rick Trickett contract extension done. The next step will be for FSU to issue a deadline.
I'm not saying this is true, and there are a few versions floating about, but it makes sense. This would be the first time FSU has stood up to Bowden.
Clearly, a three year deal would conflict with the promise that FSU made to Head Coach in Waiting, Jimbo Fisher: that he would be the head coach by January of 2011 or be paid $5 Million. I've been critical of Bowden for failing to acknowledge that a change is coming. Bowden refuses to let Jimbo make important decisions that will help aid in the transition. This request shows a fundamental lack of respect for the University and, if true, is a clear misread on Bowden's part. Our own Fsued (the senior voice of Tomahawk Nation) chimes in:
As I wrote a couple weeks ago, the Seminole Nation landscape has changed. If Bobby Bowden is expecting an outcry from boosters over his "treatment," I'm afraid he will find the silence both deafening and damning.
Does Bowden really think that he will get three more years? Would he really make the University he supposedly loves dearly pay a penalty of $5 Million dollars? That would be an act of eipc selfishness, and one the University has now shown it will not tolerate. Bowden can act like he is the one holding the keys here, but the writing on the wall has now been underlined and highlighted.
I think this request shows that Bowden has not accepted that Jimbo Fisher will succeed him. I think it shows that he is still bitter over the booster initiated ouster of his son, much maligned offensive coordinator Jeff Bowden; a hire that Bowden "allegedly" forced on the FSU administration with a combination of strong-arm tactics and Childish threats.
Why would he ask for this? There are four prevailing theories that people have as to why Bowden is still coaching. First, some believe he still loves coaching. I could see this, but he doesn't do much coaching any more. Bowden doesn't call plays, isn't meaningfully involved in the scouting process, and doesn't know his own player's names.
Second, people speculate that he wants to get the all-time wins record. We've noted that he is very unlikely to catch Joe Paterno (the current leader). This motivation makes some sense here because Paterno, at age 82, just signed a three year deal, though Penn State insiders seem to believe the three year contract is really more like a one year deal with two easily viodable options.
Third, many in the know believe that Bowden is very much afraid that he will die once he retires. I believe this, because Bowden has referenced the death of his Idol, legendary Alabama coach Paul Bear Bryant, just a few short months after his retirement. Bryant was in his mid-60's. Now at 80, Bowden isn't long for his time on earth. At one time, leaving coaching would have been a huge adjustment for Bowden. Now though, he could still ride around in a gold cart and drink sweet tea from on high even if he did retire. Still, it's hard to properly gauge the impact that all the youthful energy from the team has on Bowden. Though 80, Bowden is in excellent health and doesn't engage in the activities that sent Bear Bryant to his early grave. Does anyone else find it odd that a famously devout Christian would be so fearful of death at his age?
The fourth option is a difficult pill to swallow for many Seminole fans. This idea goes that Bowden is still coaching because he wants to stick it to the administration, boosters, and fans who banished his son. By collecting checks for little work, Bowden continues to grow his now considerable fortune, laughing all the way to the bank. I'm not sure where I stand on this one. I do think that he's extremely bitter over the failures of his sons (the three coaches have been fired from their positions and either never found a comparable position or accepted a sweetheart deal to work in a lower division), and views Florida State as a reason for their failures
If the figures in this account are correct, we can also make some deductions as to Bowden's mindset. He stands to make 2.2 Million this year. In the alternative, he can take 3.5Mil to walk away. Personally, I think it's absurd that we would offer him 3.5 Million dollars not to coach our team. Putting the insanity beside for a moment, in order to make 3.5 Million via coaching, Bowden would need to coach two more years. If he turns down the money, we can assume that he thinks he will be invited back in 2010. That's a scary proposition for Seminole fans as bowden continues to cripple the program through his lack of leadership and other abilities.
The bottom line here, however, is that FSU finally refused to be slapped around by the tyrant. Is it because of FSU President and former Bowden player T.K. Wetherell's health (rumors of the big "C" word)? Did Bobby think he needed to try to cash in on one last year of negotiations under T.K.? Let's pray he takes the money and heads for the beach. It's expensive, but it will work.
On another note, Fsued said:
This makes me further dubious of the report about Amato being out -- if that's to be believed, then who made the call? These two accounts are difficult to reconcile, in my opinion.
It's an interesting question. Maybe Fisher has gained control over assistant coaches and will exercise that power once recruiting season is over? Notice I said assistants and not coordinators (Mickey Andrrews). Steve Ellis had an interesting thought about just that in today's Democrat.
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lol same here. I think that option is the best. I have full confidence in Jimbo
by Cee on Jan 22, 2009 1:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One thing ...
… this makes me realize is that dysfunction doesn’t just permeate the football program, but the entire athletic program. This should have been obvious to me before, but when there are different rules for one facet of an organization, that mentality inevitably seeps into other areas.
Another halmark of a dysfunctional organization — disloyalty. While I’m glad there are leaks coming out about what’s happening, this type of sieve-like flow of what should be confidential information reflects the complete shambles in which this program finds itself.
Other questions: What does this mean for Mickey Andrews? When all of this stuff gets rolled up into a big negative recruiting snowball by our compettitors (and you know it will), how much of it will actually play? How much political capital does the AD really have at FSU? Are the big money boosters going to graduate past indifferent silence toward active resistance of continuing this benevolent dictatorship? Where are Terry and Tommy and their siblings in all of this — surely one of them is man enough to give Daddy a dose of reality?
On the booster part — if they really big powerful guns met with BB and said: "Look, it may not be fair, it may not be right, but it’s over. Now we can do this the easy way — giving you a legacy you can be proud of; or the hard way and you be remembered as a bitter old man.
Bottom line: This whole thing makes me realize how far away we really are from being a top program. Dysfunction doesn’t just go away when the monarch is deposed. We will have to close ranks and work hard to root it our of all the places it festers in the organization.
Bottom, bottom line: This is all just very sad and so very unnecessary.
by Fsued on Jan 22, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I bet rooting out can be quicker with a strong leader and new coaches, innocent, or contrite old ones.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
by FSUvaFan on Jan 22, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a really hard time believing
a lot of that. I have a hard time believing he is ‘fearful’ of dying when he retires. I just don’t think he knows what life looks like without coaching and is more fearful of that. He has done if for so long, he doesn’t know any other way. Does he have a control problem? Maybe. Maybe he thinks his legacy is going to collapse, his program will fall apart or Anne will leave him (kidding) if he is not coaching. I think the fear of the unknown and instability (in his life) is more impertinent than the fear of death.
Also, I have a hard time he is trying to ‘stick’ it to the administration, that has kept him far longer than he knows he should have been here. The boosters, have by in large, treated him well. I doubt a contract dispute would lead Bobby to give the giant middle finger to the University and the fans.
I think the first two scenarios are the likeliest, which is either he is not sure whether he still wants to do it (though my guess is he does)
or that he is upset that he is not getting a 3 year deal. Why would he be upset about this? Fear of change. See above.
I hope for the sake of myself, the program, and the fans that Bobby is not going to leave under ‘ill-will’.’ Regardless of how much he hasn’t done in the last 7 years, he gave us 25 years of bringing this program to national relevance. I want him to be seen as a legeng (Good Pr and he is a descent man) and with respect.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 1:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Another option
Maybe he’s waiting for the official NCAA infractions.
It’s possible he may not want to come back if he has no chance of catching Joe Pa. I personally don’t believe he is doing this to ‘stick it’ to the administration and fans.
by RollinNole on Jan 22, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I certaintely
don’t want to believe that either. I will wait for that to be revealed until I believe it instead of allowing speculation to convince me.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A mere formality
I’m with rollinNole on this one. I think he wants to hear what the sanctions will be and if he loses 7 losses and will be 8 back of JoePA with just two years remaining, I believe he will retire. This is all he really has to coach for if what he and JoePa are now doing is actually coaching. As a resident of PA, I’ve seen all the trials and tribulations surrounding JoePa over the last 7 years and Bowden is headed down the same path. You hate to say “just go away” but what he is doing is reminisant of the great Bear Bryant in the end where he stood on the platform in practice and referred to players by number because he was no longer getting close to them to know their names. Bobby has done a great job in making FSU a premier program, but the school has to realize someone else is going to take us back to being a yearly top 10 team. Nothing against Bobby or Joe, but it’s time to just get out. I’m sure he is feeling this isn’t the way he wanted to go out, that he has lost respect and consideration from the administration over his sons dismissal as well as the HCIW Fisher, but go home enjoy watching your coaching sons games and play with grand and great grand children and enjoy life. We all really should be expressing a great debt of gratitude and sending the guy off in style! Further, they could give him an office and make him Football Coach emeritus (ie fundraser and recruiting) much like Arkansas did with Frank Broyles!
by B1gdawg-Nole on Jan 22, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Further, they could give him an office and make him Football Coach emeritus (ie fundraser and recruiting) much like Arkansas did with Frank Broyles
Or like UCLA does with John Wooden!
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what we should do with
Lenny too.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know what Im not going to bash him.
I think UNFNOLE is right about BB and what he has done. I cant tell you who only he can. I can say that Im in the Army. I tried to get out back in 05 and hated life. I cam back in because I just didnt know what to do. Coaching at FSU is BB life. I think the point above are all a little right. I think hes scared of not know what hes going to do. I think the record is a bigger deal. I think hes mad at some people and might want to stick it to the. Maybe he thinks he might be able to help the Football program and he might think he is. Denial can do a lot of things to someone. Maybe he made promise to someone (MA or Chuck) that hes just trying to keep to them because hes still a good person. I dont think BB is in it for the money becaues Im sure he has enough. I think his kids and wife would rather him do what he wants and what makes him happy than to try to tell him hes hurting himself, his team, his school. They might not even see it like we do. I became a FSU fan because My HS ran an offence that was based off his. At that time I thought he did everything calling the plays and what not. I didnt know there was an OC. I feel in love with Football and conected with FSU because of this.
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time believing it too.
Maybe I’m just naive. Frankly, I think it’s simply because the FSU admin is blindly loyal to a fault when it comes to Bowden. If he’s really doing all those things in spite of the program, there’s no way the admin wouldn’t tell him to take a hike immediately. Are they that incompetent? Again, maybe I’m just naive.
I’m not a blind Bowden loyalist, and I think he should be forced out, but I have a hard time believing he’s fallen that far off the deep-end by playing childish games with FSU.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
by mp212121 on Jan 22, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The "C" word
I hope it’s not! I don’t wish that on anyone. That may be a simple answer as to why it’s taking so long. Also…..is it unfair of the NCAA to be taking SO long to make their decision during recruiting season?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The NCAA has made its decision
They are negotiating with FSU on what they have decided so there will not be any appeals.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
by Nattylite on Jan 22, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I don’t believe that rumor. If it is true, FSU should stand up to Bobby. Asking for 3 years is ridiculous.
by fsunole23 on Jan 22, 2009 1:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If true, then this program and school need a complete overhaul top to bottom.
Both sides should be held accountable and fired for sheer stupidity.
FSU football is now like watching those documentaries about drugs, or the movie Scarface. The first part is awesome and amazing. Everyone gets rich and lives like a king. Then it all begins to crumble until rock bottom where everyone is either dead or in prison.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
by mp212121 on Jan 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Crossing my fingers
I have two hopes in this fantasy playing out before our eyes: 1) that Bobby Bowden is as hard headed as I think he is and 2) that the administration is about to accomplish something they’ve never done before – standing up to the legend.
Frustration over his departure should not be the sole burden of the administration, program and fans. Its about time Bobby feels a little bit of that frustration on his end. Hearing the word “no” just might be the catalyst we were waiting on for change.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
by Nattylite on Jan 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
About the Dysfunction Fused was talking about
I think its going to be like this. FSU has 2 teams. will they work together. You have the Off and the Def. Jimbo has his off going in the direction he wants I think and MA has the Def. Its like a war. Jimbo is going to win mostlikely. Can there crazy system work. Can they win games like this with all the drama. We might have to wait tell next season to see. Its like remember the titans when coach Boone thought Bill Yoast was throwing the game. We all might think this but come on how could we ever think BB and MA would want or try to do that. After all they have done for this program
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
While I can not say that it 100% certainly happend as I was not in the room.
Let me assure the readers that Uncensored has done his due diligence on this one. He’s sat on the story for at least a week and a half.
It has also been brought in by 2 completely unrelated sources, each of whom would probably know what they were talking about. We’re talking about people who are paid to know about what goes on at FSU.
by MattDNole on Jan 22, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
scary, but it was bound to get worse before it got better
not being sarcastic about the scary comment.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
by FSUvaFan on Jan 22, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
during WWII the airborne jumped all across europe
the way it happened we should not have won the war but something happened that the Army didnt expect. mass confusion. there were small groups taking out troups all over. I know you think that has nothing to do here but this is my point. We have so many things going on. No one know hell the player are prob. getting pissed but there is a goal and that is to play football. What do you all want in the end. Its to watch FSU have a good team and win the ACCCG and/or the NC right. If BB takes us back or if he leaves and Jimbo takes us thats what we want. I dont want BB there anymore than you all. What would happen if throw the Chaos next year FSU goes 12-0. Is it pos. Ya it is. you think no way but the truth is that any given team can win any given game. we are calling for BB to step down right why becaues the we had 2 7-6 seasons and this year we went 9-4. because we didnt make it to the ACCCG with at preseason the worst O-line in college. Im just saying have some faith. We all know it will get better. We will get to the top. Yes I think it BB steps down we will get there faster, but you never know.
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think you’re getting that from this site. FSUncensored has mentioned a few times that he is more interested in the process than the result and the process is rotten.
This site has shown how in many ways FSU is behind the times in the coaching arena. Read Steve Ellis’s blog that is linked at the top of the page and you’ll see him talk about the Q&A session fans and boosters had with local area coaches. They mention how FSU’s recruiting efforts have improved under Fisher. Yet we still have coaches blowing off recruits. Do you think that sort of thing would happen under Meyer? Carroll?
I’m pretty sure you, Desman, have commented on some of the coaches lack of production. Why has this been allowed? (Note: that’s not meant as an attack on you but just and example.) Why has BB not taken action?
by evenflow58 on Jan 22, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
This echos what some have said above, but to me Bobby is a lot like Brooks from the Shawshank Redemption. If you remember, Brooks was the convict who was in prison for 50 years, and he ran the prison library and was looked on as a father figure and a person of respect.
He got parole and didn’t know what to do with himself once he left Shawshank. Morgan Freeman summed it up best when he said “In here he was someone. Outside he’s just another washed-up con with bad hands. Probably couldn’t get a library card.”
You know how Brooks’s story ends…
I see lots of parallels with Bobby. “In here” he is king. He is feted by press and peers and everyone. He gets to control his destiny. Once he stops coaching, he’s just another old guy in a state full of old guys. Bobby doesn’t want to stop being relevant.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 2:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Instead of FSU being Bobby,
it’s Bobby is FSU. When you remove FSU, what is Bobby?
I refuse to believe that this proud man has nothing outside of FSU. He has a huge family and references them often.
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't follow
What does “Instead of FSU being Bobby, it’s Bobby is FSU. When you remove FSU, what is Bobby?” mean?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Many people say that FSU football is completely defined by Bowden
I just flipped it and said that he is designed by FSU football, as Brooks was by Shawshank.
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh
I agree then…Bobby may have helped build this program, but this program and institution is much bigger than a broken-down old has-been.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
whoa now
I have been one to criticize, and if Im overstepping my bounds, let me know; but something about “broken-down old has-been” really rubbed me the wrong way. That was harsh man.
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You aren't overstepping anything
but I standy by my statement. Bowden is literally crippling this program. When you are only allowed nine coaches, and you are getting not a damn thing out of your head coach, and you are in a conference with good-to-great coaches (except for Al Groh and whoever replaces Jags at BC), AND you are making more money than Mack Brown, you deserve to be called a “broken-down-has-been.”
Uncensored has said this first, but I agree 100%: Bowden is the worst head coach in Division 1 football.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*sigh*
I want him to step down to be sure. The words just stung a bit is all. Maybe its because they are true, maybe its cuz I still have a soft spot that I was unaware of for the guy. Either way, as much as I love B.B., I bleed garnet and gold, not Bobby juice. (that sounded gross, and technically untrue since we both bleed blood, but you get the point…)
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry if the words were harsh
looking back, they probably were…let me amend them:
Bowden is doing nothing for this program, and he should no longer be the head coach.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure he has things outside of FSU but can they replace FSU? My father is going to retire in the next few years. He’s worked for the gov his whole life. He’ll have work around the house to take care of but what after that? Desman made a good point about him being out of the military and not being able to find anything that replaces it.
It’s not that he won’t have anything else to do but how can you find anything to replace being a football coach at a major university?
by evenflow58 on Jan 22, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point and a lesson to be learned:
never allow an employee to have the expectation that he can work forever.
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Following the Shawshank metaphor...
Is Chuck Amato Bobby’s Jake?
by The K-Man on Jan 22, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahahaha
My co-workers are looking at me as I’m laughing…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can the boosters force him out
If they gave him a contract to sign and they are just waiting can they take it back. Im guessing that hes going to be here at least throw this last year. Also lets say he takes the hints and leaves. Jimbo becomes the HC. other than him getting ride of Chuck on day one would he can the rest and get his people in or would it be to late and have to wait tell the end of next season.
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You raise an interesting point. We are offering to pay someone not to sign a contract.
That tells you FSU is scared of Bowden coaching this team.
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or rightfully, scared of losing Jimbo and Trick..
They go, the money will dry up, because as much as boosters love luncheons and golf games, I have to believe they like being at the top of the heap, talkin smack to cronies. That only happens when you win.
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats a lot of money to throw down then
you have to pay off contracts that the school has on the other coaches that Jimbo would want to get ride of like Chuck. then pay new coaches to come in. I know FSU has some cash to throw here but I wouldnt think they had that kind of money.
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just remind yourself
how much they paid to get rid of an offensive coordinator, not the head coach…
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am pretty sure position coaches contracts are yearly contracts. Thats why it is weird that Trickett is bitching about a extension when he originally got one of the best contracts a position coach has ever got. This is also how position coaches can change schools so often with out paying a buyout.
by kyled on Jan 22, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trick knows what he is worth. All he wants is the pomp and circumstance
a little stroking of the ego. We take care of him with this contract, the rest would be a cinch from then on.
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly why
You don’t build a statue of someone while they are still coaching. The University brought this embarrassment on itself. I just hope they have the balls to grit their teeth and ride out the consequences of their highly naive actions.
Catering to the will of Bowden just ins’t an option anymore if success is the goal.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
by Nattylite on Jan 22, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but what is the Goal.
to just win games, to win the ACC, to win the OB, or the NC. Is there something else they want like beat Miami and UF year in and out. I think the school is looking at something more than just winning because they are not winning these games like I would think they want. I want to look at Auburn for a sec. tommy tuberville is a good coach and had a great run. He didnt screw things up the School did when they asked him to change the schools gameplan. Auburn would still be a good school and win games the old way. But he couldnt make it happen because it wasnt him. What is it that FSU wants here. I ask because If its winning woudlnt they have seen this about the last o what 5 years.
by Desman on Jan 22, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the big difference between us and Auburn
is that Auburn has the delusions of being a premier program, while we actually can be such a program, and should be again.
Auburn will never be more important then Bama.
But more in response to your comment, I think there is another important distinction. The record of each coach. T.T. was just another guy; we have a legend. There are countless ways that this affects departure. Besides that, T.T. was smart in that he would always deflect criticism by firing an O.C. “Its not my fault, lets get rid of this guy.” After what, the 4th, 5th time, that act got tired. The problem that we have, as well as Penn State, will never happen again in college football.
by Miaminole on Jan 22, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nattylite, your comments and responses in this thread are succinct and deadly accurate.
I would rec them, but pretty soon we’d have a green board.
by TRMNole on Jan 22, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or name the field after him...
It was like they were dropping hints for him to leave and he never picked up on it. Like you said, you cannot memorialize someone before they are gone. Pretty soon, FSU will hold a memorial, wake and funeral for Bowden, because, “wouldn’t it be great if he was alive to see it?” Hell, that’s the logic for Bobby Bowden Field, the Bronze Monument and the Hall of Fame Induction.
by coonhound on Jan 22, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm -- "waiting on the NCAA"
I’m trying to think that through. If the NCAA report is bad, and BB loses wins, it seems to me the LAST thing he would want to do is retire this year, lest his legacy be saddled with: a) it being true that he was only hanging around to get the wins record b) leaving in disgrace after NCAA sanctions.
by Fsued on Jan 22, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great Stuff
Haven’t logged in since I’ve been back from Iraq, but in Germany and loving the coverage! keep up the awesome work.
by DOCB on Jan 22, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for serving!
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Naming fields, building statues, etc.
I think this a non-issue. As bad as Bowden is butchering the denouement of his career, he can only tarnish, not destroy or severely damage his legacy at FSU. He STILL built the program. The proof of that is where our standards are — we still all expect to return to a time when we consistently compete for national titles. That very expectation is solely the product of his tenure.
That is, we would have named all that stuff after him anyway. Is Duke wrong for having Coach K court? Even if he overstays his welcome and quits winning 30 a year, he’s a legend.
by Fsued on Jan 22, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Final thought
I’m going to go WAAAAAAAAAY out on a limb and guess that Bowden will not coach another game at FSU.
In life, there are tipping points and we seem to be at one. As Bowden’s claims to entitlment harden, so does the Seminole Nation’s belief that his time has passed.
This 3-year contract bit is being discussed on all the boards and the radio today.
Take careful note of this: NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is saying: “He ought to get the 3-year deal for all he has done.”
NOBODY.
Even a couple years ago, this would not have been the case.
The balance has tipped. If Bowden goes to the mat on a 3-year-deal, he will lose. That bluff will be called, unless TK steps in and decides HIS legacy (dysfunction heaped upon dysfunction) is too important and that he’s not going to be the one that presides over a messy breakup with the legendary coach.
Where is the consituency that will advocate on BB’s behalf. It has vanished. It no longer exists. If a showdown occurs, he will try to muster support and I believe he will find that there isn’t any support there.
While the product of the very disfunction we’re talking about, the leak about this meeting was a stroke of luck for those of us who believe Bowden’s time has past. It shines light on the dysfunction that has gone viral under his recent watch. And it, in essence, shows his hole cards to FSU fans everywhere.
How is he to get out of this? Caving in for the 1-year-deal? I think there is too much pride. Can he win on the 3-year deal? I don’t see that happening at all. Compromise? I guess it’s possible, but what is his leverage?
My fear is that he is really caged.
If the NCAA report is as FSUuncensored’s sources say, what is he to do? If he quits, it will be under a negative cloud and it will look like the wins record was the only reason he was staying on. Those are both ugly stains on a proud man’s legacy.
But if he wants to stay on, it’s with another one-year deal with no pay raise — a deal that is far less (we now know) than what he originally asked for.
Somebody needs to come up with an exit plan quick. I really think his sons should take a lead role here.
by Fsued on Jan 22, 2009 4:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I sure hope you are right.
The alternative for Bowden is to deny this ever took place and accept the one year deal while acting like everything was normal and blaming the delay on the NCAA stuff.
Great day of posting, Fsued. You should take these together and post them.
MattDNole asked an interesting question: Who is running this program right now?
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Executive Head Coach?
Maybe that’s why he couldn’t swing by and see Philip Thomas… you know… busy doing Head Coach things… like buying red shoes and big sunglasses and stromboli
by coonhound on Jan 22, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Amato Song (Special thanks to Dean Martin)
When the recruits won’t commit
Cuz you’re not doing &$#%
That’s Amato
When the flags start to fly
And it makes the fans cry
That’s Amato
Whistles blow, everybody knows, he’s a shmoe, it’s pathetic.
When your coach has big boobs and he helps you to lose
That’s Amato!
by MattDNole on Jan 22, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Stuff...
Now sing it with a raspy Jersey accent
by coonhound on Jan 22, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. There's just too much to think about right now.
Poor Jimbo. Why doesn’t anyone care about Jimbo’s damn legacy?
And yeah, Unc’s alternative seems, well, just about right. Ed admitted he was going way out on a limb.
Any honest Nole fan at this point (I expect this to be in the papers soon – my paradigm now is that someone leaked this and it’s go-time – I’m sure I’m just hoping) has to admit to him/herself, if to no one else, that our football program – our entire athletic program – is a complete joke. I feel filthy just discussing it. Like it’s on me now and I need to go shower. That’s how rotten this whole thing is.
by TRMNole on Jan 22, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The better question is who is running the athletic department?
It looks to me that there is no leadership in the program. Well, at least difused leadership. Jimbo seems to have a tight control over most things offensive but has to run personel decisions by somebody (no idea who but I’m guessing Bobby). The rest is really anybody’s guess.
by evenflow58 on Jan 23, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I look at this as a good thing (if true)
It’s becoming clear that Bobby will not have some great farewell tour and ride off into the sunset. If it ends ugly then it ends ugly, but at least it will end.
Bowden is a coaching legend and a great man, but if he really is asking for 3 years I honestly think he should be shown the door. It shows a serious lack of respect for FSU, not to mention the fact that it’s selfish and extremely delustional.
I really hope the administration keeps a hard line on this and does not offer anyting beyond a one year deal. Anything else would be absolutely moronic.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 22, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was just thinking...
If this ends ugly, how many people will you say to (and not in a mean way, I mean in a disappointed spirit, because it is sad), but how many people will you tell, “I told you it would end this way.”
It’s sad. It’s disgusting. It puts a pit in my stomach. If this is true and the three-year-contract stuff gets out (note: it’s out), he’s done for.
by TRMNole on Jan 22, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know it is sad
but if it goes down like this he will still be Bobby Bowden a coaching legend the great person, and the 2nd most winningest coach in CF. We might hate what hes been doing lately but we still will love him and try to get him the best exit we can because He did what he did. Its a bitter teast but thats life we will still love him and respect him but not tell he leaves.
by Desman on Jan 23, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody
wanted it to come down to this…Ideally, I would want him to have the all time wins record and be retired, but we can’t have it all.
by jasonole59 on Jan 22, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How much, if any, have the boosters paid to BB? I would imagine they would do most of the stonewalling in his bid for a 3-year contract and not TK if they give him anything.
by evenflow58 on Jan 22, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I also don't think FSU would take much of a PR hit if this is the case.
I think that’s been a big fear in the past, that FSU would have a big black eye if Bowden were forced out. But if this 3 year deal crap is true, then who in their right mind would blame FSU?
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 22, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Right?!
Sorry to stalk you, but you’re dead-on, ha!
by TRMNole on Jan 22, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I shouldn't have hit "post" so quickly.
No one in his or her right mind would blame us. Gator trolls (who we give two ****s about) and… well, that’s about it. Any credible journalist would have to side with FSU on this one and say, “You know what? It’s a damn shame. But it is what it is.” Ed really nailed his take.
by TRMNole on Jan 22, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
I don’t think the national media examines this. I think they look at him as a legend, as they do JoePa. I dont think it’s super negative, but it isn’t positive. If he just retires….thats positive. If it comes out that we fired him….ehhhh I don’t think it helps.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Misspoke
It does HELP the program…..it doesn’t help the PR. But in the long run…..what’s more important?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I also have a feeling that Jimbo will
do a great job at damage control with his success.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Jan 22, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jimbo can really help himself by publicly announcing the changes we will make
He doesn’t have to throw Bobby under the bus, but he can say…
We added 30 office staff to our recruiting center in order to keep closer tabs on important recruits, or… we’ve introduced “computers” into our program.
He needs to highlight the deficiencies while showing what he has done to bring us up to snuff.
by FSUncensored on Jan 22, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coach in waiting
The whole coach-in-waiting thing was supposed to make the transition easier.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
by mp212121 on Jan 22, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. He can say that to recruits and that’s fine but there’s no need to go to the press about it. Nobody is stupid enough to believe Jimbo isn’t using the eBay to it’s fullest extent. Jimbo just needs to keep the program’s nose clean and put a good product on the field. That will prove he is doing his job.
By going to the press and saying that sort of thing he opens himself up to looking pathetic and whiney, IMO.
by evenflow58 on Jan 23, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta go with Uncensored on this one.
Don’t forget about the NCAA sanctions. I need someone at Florida State, maybe for the first time since I’ve followed the program, to tell me, “Things are going to change around here.” He doesn’t have to diss Bowden, and of course he won’t.
I have complete confidence that Jimbo will handle the real transition beautifully. He’ll need real leadership above him, but eventually that will have to happen or Jimbo won’t be here. But to my original point in support of Unc’s comment, Jimbo will have to help himself, establish his own identity, credibility, etc., when he takes over. The Bowden fans won’t have Bowden, and they’ll wanna know just what the hell Jimbo’s gonna do that Bowden wasn’t doing! (pause for cynical laughter) And seriously, who the hell at FSU is promoting Jimbo now? He is our head-coach-in-waiting! Which so far has meant nothing more than the victim of a deplorable bait-and-switch deal that to me is unconscionable from a man who is supposedly a devout Christian and loyal to the people around him. A liar and a cheat seem more accurate lately. Pathetic and whiney would be a compliment to him if what we’ve been hearing lately is true. Don’t let me confuse the issue though as this is not a new position of mine.
By the way, I’m not trying to be agrumentative or anything. (Messageboard talk leaves that open to interpretation, unfortunately.) I’m just passionate about this. New coach, new direction. And I want to hear about it from the new leader when he finally gets to lead. And I won’t be the only one if this ends like I think it will.
by TRMNole on Jan 23, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JoPa had a good run this year
He messed his hip out on the field showing his team something bout an offside kick. Hes doing things for his team. BB dont wear a headset most of the time.
by Desman on Jan 23, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PR is overrated
With the speed at which information flows good or bad PR doesn’t last long. Bad PR will last as long as you are bad and good PR will last as long as you are good.
by evenflow58 on Jan 23, 2009 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The all-time wins record is just silly at this point
I really hope that’s not the main reason Bowden is sticking around. If anyone thinks these two have much to do with the recent wins their teams have piled up then they’re up there with Bowden and Paterno on the “out-of-it” scale. These two are basically just win leeches these days. You’d think they’d realize that that’s how many people view them, but I guess they don’t care.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 22, 2009 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is a blockbuster article for FSU football
This is the best news I have heard all year. It is about time somebody nutted up. I would suggest the next phone call BB doesn’t answer, they just send him a pink slip.
What a joke, 3.5 mil for seven years of bad luck, hiring cronies and collecting a check? That is about what Herban makes for 2 NCs in 4 years.
He is showing that he is the stubborn egotistic old man we have all thought he was. FSU doesn’t come into play using this theorem. If he had hired a Jimbo Fisher or someone of equal talent FSU would not have missed a beat and he would probably be making 4 mil a year by now. The karma of greed is unmerciful I tell ya.
He could have taken part of that and set up a trust account for Fredo much bigger than the one he has now with the half mil. I would bet he is banking on the boosters to howl. Hopefully they are more savy than this.
This is the chance they been waiting for simply announce that the Bowden camp is unresponsive and intransigent and they had to let him go.
Bobby you are busted!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 22, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wrong pic, don't know how Herban got into this one.
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 22, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Someone mentioned the statue above...
I actually think building the statue, naming the field, etc. was meant to be more of a nicely packaged nudge to send Bowden the hint that it’s time to retire. Apparently it didn’t work.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 22, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't surprise me if he did storm out
with his old Alabama lawyer in tow. I suspect Bobby fully believes he’s in a position to demand 3 more years. He’s been surrounded by nothing but “yes men” for far too long. He has no idea how the fanbase is really feeling because he’s sheltered from negative press and mail and he doesn’t ready “eBay”. :)
In 2006 he thought we ought to be glad he wants to stay, and with the statue and window and stadium and Allstate commercials, probably still thinks that he’s holding all the cards. If so, it would have been a VERY big rude awakening for the admin to stand up to him and say “1 year contract, you’re not worth more.”
by tired nole on Jan 22, 2009 6:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"He's been surrounded by nothing but "yes men" for far too long
Is an egregious understatement. And scathing, unfortunate, and soon upon it’s end.
Bobby built a near insurmountable mountain of good-will through winning and unrivaled ability to charm the big money. However, he has served almost as equally apt at eroding that mountain the past few years. As whimsy, folksy, charming, easy to say “He’s our guy :D” he was , he’s as vindictive, snarky, dismissive, entitled, hard to say “He’s our guy : [[COMMENT_CHILDREN_TOKEN]]#8221; now.
by CaStauch on Jan 22, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can only hope when Bobby and his agent stormed out...
…that it was like that one season on American Idol when they purposely (conspiracy theory) locked the door on the left so that angry contestants kept making fools of themselves when they tried to make a huff-and-puff exit. “Other door, Bobby.”
by TRMNole on Jan 23, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Spetman and the FSU admin (except you TK)
Keep doin’ work.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
by FSUSOM on Jan 22, 2009 6:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bobby wants his money....
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
With FSU’s budget issues for him to try and get ANOTHER raise after the $800K a year pay raise he got in 2007…….unreal.
At least make Bobby give up control of the team if they are going to give him more money. Than we can at least win while pissing money away.
by noles55 on Jan 22, 2009 9:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully he has thoroughly alienated the administration
I would love to handle this negotiation.
Well Bobby these are very serious economic times we are living in. FSU is a major university but the funds are not unlimited. After careful consideration we feel the $500.000 used to buy out Jeff was a major mistake and we will offer you now 1.80 million to compensate for it.
Should you decide to accept this mission you must turn over all major decision making to the head coach in waiting, to include decisions on staff and coordinators.
We can also offer you a graceful way out by a decision on your part to retire rather than the school and yourself go through all the negative publicity of a termination.
Take 24 hours to think it over Bobby and by all means talk it over with your sons who have gone through this sort of thing. We could offer more time but we need to move along with Trickett’s contract.
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 22, 2009 9:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"I would love to handle this negotiation."
If I had a vote, you’d be in there.
No reason this year’s FSU-Florida game shouldn’t have been playing on the monitor when he and his agent walked in.
by TRMNole on Jan 23, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The graceful retirement thing won't be happening this offseason.
We already had the embarassing and pointless press conference where Bobby announced he was coming back. Speaking of that, why would they call a press conference before a contract was signed or close to being signed?
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 22, 2009 10:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know ...
…but the whole thing feels very volatile to me. Incendiary.
Maybe this site will be the lit match??
by Fsued on Jan 22, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IMPORTANT
Maybe everybody saw this but me:
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/article969819.ece
RS is mandated to cut 10 percent out of the athletic budget.
This fact certainly puts a whole new perspective on the BB contract situation. It also further REDUCES Bowden’s leverage and gives a crutch to TK or the AD if they are ready to part ways: “Sorry Coach, but the darned legislature just wouldn’t give us any more money.” Hell, they could even pin it on the legislature’s Gator caucus!!!!!
by Fsued on Jan 23, 2009 2:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought most of the money came from the boosters,
not the State. In either event, I doubt the money will be there, and Bobby will just have to come to grips with the fact he’s been more than compensated for past accomplishments— He’s been spoiled, allowed to “go out on his own terms” (which were a decade of decline), and folks have had enough..
by tired nole on Jan 23, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll keep repeating it,
Bobby is going out on his terms, but his terms were hiring Jimbo as HCIW. I grudgingly supported Bobby having “earned” the right to leave when he was ready, but he had to agree to the deal with Jimbo, so I will not support him changing his mind halfway through the process.
by WBisaNOLE on Jan 24, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is the engine for sports revenue
The head football coach is the one who generates the majority of sports revenue. If the money is short guess who is in a large degree responsible fort it? Bobby has just not been bringing in the bacon the last few years.
I would tell him Bobby you were just a couple of players away from the big bucks, you should have made the trip to Harvin’s house instead of sending Fredo!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 23, 2009 8:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
losin Harvin
I wonder if that sting will ever go away…
by Miaminole on Jan 23, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pete Rose Way
This is plain old Russian negotiating. Here is where I want to be and you need to find a way to get there. There is no middle ground.
If the NCAA decides to take away FSU victories, then the chance of Bobby surpassing JoePa becomes totally related to the health of these two coaches. How ugly could that get, I envision wheelchairs and oxygen tanks.
Bobby could get the upperhand in the public’s eye by accepting a token salary while donating the rest to the university or the Boosters. He could afford it.
But really, this is the problem when you name things after employees, they then, become bigger than their job.
by ISLANDCHIEF on Jan 24, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well now
This little rumor has really picked up speed. Ive got to say, if it is true, I think its ironic. Bobby, clinging to the job, may have been the driving force to cost him the job. He could have killed us, taking year after year. I doubt the administration would find the nerve to step in the way. I envision the way frogs are cooked. Throw em in the water, if it was boiling, they would jump right out. But put em in cold water, slowly turning up the heat, they will stay in that pot, without a care in the world while they cooked.
Again, IF this is true, Bobby might not even be able to have a (well deserved) good-bye tour, and that would be a shame.
That said, lets get this party started, Jimbo…get your stuff ready, its almost Game day!
by Miaminole on Jan 24, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
FSU should just offer Bowden one more year.
If he wants it, he can take it, otherwise he’s coached his last game and we’ll move on. I can’t imagine Bobby wouldn’t take that offer, but I guess it’s possible that he’d have to much pride.
I was wondering why we wouldn’t just announce that 2009 will be Bowden’s farewell tour. Seems like all parties would benefit from that. It’s now pretty clear that Bobby had no intention of retiring after next season. That explains it.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 24, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
After some thought
Don’t know if this thread has run its course, but I had a few observations:
Ironically the HCIW concept has proven to be Bobby’s worst nightmare for the simple fact that Jimbo Fisher has become the reason for our success and losing him would do much more damage to the program than losing Bobby. This has led to this current situation where FSU really doesn’t have to play Bobby Ball anymore because they have Jimbo. Jimbo’s success has ironically made Bobby a lot more trivial in terms of importance in my opinion.
The only thing that I could see working out for Bobby staying past three years is waiting for Jimbo to get his 5 million dollar buyout, at which time another contract is already signed that extends Jimbo’s HCIW concept if he is willing to wait. I mean, he already scored 5 million plus salary, why not wait another 3 to get another 5 million because at that rate he is making HC money, without any responsibility and huge recruiting advantages. So Bobby staying might not be a bad thing if Jimbo could score that type of money and of course was willing to wait.
The one downside of course, is the defensive staff, which will need an overhaul, but my gut tells me that MA will retire and will be replaced by a Jimbo appointee.
by DOCB on Jan 25, 2009 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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