Wednesday Open Recruiting Thread
by Bud Elliott on Jan 28, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in FSU Football
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PrintOnly 144 hours left until National Signing day. Numerous studies indicate that recruiting rankings directly translate to on-field success. From 2002-2006, no team did a better job squandering talented prospects than Florida State (though Tennessee was close). That started to change in 2007 and the Noles really improved in 2008. This year, the Noles recruiting class is rated 10th by ESPN, 13th by Rivals, and 21st by Scout (though scout doesn't stop the counting at 25 prospects, like the other two do). The Seminoles have 17 prospects in this class, though Brandon Jenkins was an early qualified and Brian Stork will likely greyshirt. Counting Jenkins, the Noles have 62 guys on scholarship. Most of us here believe they will take 1-4 more players. It's also widely speculated that up to two more players could greyshirt.
When you search Phillip Thomas, you get 10 stories and 38 comments. He's probably the favorite prospect of most of our posters here. From the first day SoFlaFootball.com told us about him (Video there), we liked this kid. He's related to former FSU stud DB Clevan Thomas. A class kid, we thought all hopes were dashed when Chuck Amato dissed Phillip Thomas. Thomas committed to Syracuse a few days ago and many of us felt that we were through with this prospect. Today though, we received great news. Luke of SoFlaFootball.com, who is completely responsible for unearthing Phillip Thomas, reported that FSU's coaches asked him to visit! He'll be here Friday on a direct flight, dine on steak, enjoy the warmer than Syracuse weather, and be in our final tally of recruits come next Wednesday. I believe that Thomas signed with Syracuse as an insurance policy of sorts; holding out hope that FSU would come calling. The classy kid that he is, he's letting the Cuse's coaches know about his plans.
Luke of SoFlaFootball.com, however, has another take on Thomas:
I wouldn't call the commitment to Syracuse by Phillip Thomas an "insurance commitment", not this late in the game. I think of "insurance commitments" as being one given in the summer or during the fall that hold a spot for months to come, not a mere nine days until NSD.
This visit to Syracuse was his third, Western Michigan and Central Michigan being his others. He had a chance to see and compare some schools, and with no real "big time" offers he felt Syracuse was best for him. Tough to argue with his decision, because he will certainly have the opportunity to play right away, have a coach that has NFL experience, and is in a BCS conference.
Tentatively, Thomas plans to visit FSU this weekend. The plane ticket is in his hand, "a direct flight from Miami to Tallahassee." No offer from FSU, as of now, has been given to Thomas. This is where things get tricky, Syracuse coaches are planning on visiting Thomas, his brother, and aunt Friday morning. I've heard how stringent the new head man for the Orange, Doug Marrone, can be. His actions in his limited time at Syracuse lead me to believe he's not one for games. Now that Thomas has made his pledge to play for the Orange, I can only imagine how this possible visit is sitting with Marrone. So when Marrone and staff leave the Thomas household, will Phillip get on that plane to Tallahassee? Even if Thomas gets on the plane, do the Seminoles make an offer on he's in Tallahassee? And if they offer will Thomas flip his commitment to a coaching staff that's been giving him the run around for almost two months?
This is why recruiting season is so great. Sit back, hold on tight, and see where the faxes fly next Wednesday.
I want to thank Luke for being an excellent partner throughout this recruiting season and look forward to a continued great relationship between our young sites. I'm sure SoFlaFootball.com will continue to grow as Luke continues to expand his reach.
This means that FSU is probably done with Jawanza Starling. Starling is a very good prospect from Lincoln High School. FSU's coaches will no longer cater to the Trojans every request. After failing to deliver T.J. Bryant and Jawanza Starling, one has to wonder how much longer this current coaching staff will be at Lincoln. I'm not lying when i say that some of our coaches think Phillip Thomas has a much higher ceiling than Jawanza Starling. I don't know where Starling will end up, but I don't think FSU is interested at this point. His interests and those of FSU don't match up. This is a miss for FSU in 2009 Lincoln should be on notice that there won't be any more Josh Gehres courtesy scholarships in the future. No longer will FSU take a marginal Lincoln high kid to keep the goodwill flowing.
From a talent perspective, FSU has a ton of strong safety types who want to play more like linebackers, and that is exactly how ESPN describes Starling; praising his rover like qualities while not discussing his coverage disabilities. Starling is a guy who was more hype than performance and ESPN rates him as the 22nd overall safety prospect.
Inside
- What to think about Orson Charles
- The latest on Greg Reid
- FSU is recruiting a QB. CaStauch and I will break down his film.
- Gary Brown thoughts
- Official Visitors for this weekend
- LeMarcus Joyner is transferring
- Who to look for at FSU's Junior Day.
Orson Charles gave his visit to UGA a "10." UGA is probably our biggest competition for the services Remember that Charles won't announce his decision until Mid February as he needs more time. James Coley and Lawrence Dawsey stopped at his last Basketball game yesterday to chill with him. FSU is all over Orson. We're more than willing to wait for him to call our name.
Greg Reid has been busy. The Talented defensive back prospect visited Bama and announced that they are in it for him as well. I am fairly confident that we can land Greg Reid as he has a real chance to start for us from day one. Bowden and Fisher visited him and his parents the other day and Jimbo saw him Monday night.
Chantrant has a report on Reid. They think we have a great shot and tell you where to watch his commitment live!
FSU wanted to keep it quiet and they could not. A few days ago, I got word that FSU was recruiting Texas QB Will Secord. Secord is committed to Arkansas. Apparently Arkansas HC Bobby Petrino is pretty angry that Secord is considering a visit to FSU. Let's take a look at what ESPN has to say about Secord.
ESPN rates Secord a 75, and call him the 59th best available QB prospect. Rivals calls him a Three-Star. Secord is a coaches son. Also, from those in the know, he really enjoys pretty females. If we get him on campus, I don't think he'll be that into Arkansas any more. He has visited Arkansas 7 times in the last 18 months, however, so that won't be easy.
This guy has the potential to be a very good college player, but he must sharpen his game and become more disciplined as a passer in terms of mechanics. Secord is a left-handed guy that at times will look very good and even do some things that really impress you yet on some plays he will look very sloppy.
That seems like something we can deal with. He'll have no shot to see the field until 2011 at the earliest, and that's only if E.J. doesn't pan out. If he came here, we'd redshirt him to put a year between him and EJ.
He has very good size, adequate arm strength and can get very hot when in rhythm. Primarily works out of the spread shotgun and is a touch and timing passer and an excellent fade ball thrower. He can really lay the ball in over the top of coverage on fades, seams and corner routes. Has the arm to be efficient in the short-to-intermediate passing game, but is not a power passer that will consistently drive the ball vertically. Can dink and dunk with great accuracy when his feet are set and he is a pretty good athlete that is capable of side-stepping the rush, showing the presence with his feet to buy a second chance and run the football if necessary.
Hmm, that doesn't seem like something Jimbo usually goes after. Interestingly, Petrino and Fisher, two guys with very NFL-Like Passing Schemes, are after this guy.
Most of Secord's deficiencies right now are all coachable.
Jimbo and Patrino are regarded as excellent QB coaches.
He throws off his back foot way too often when he could get set, plant and deliver with much more power in his arm. He doesn't use his lower body enough in his hips and feet to give him the consistent accuracy and range of throws that he could have. He just needs to work on fundamentals, footwork and an assortment of drills that could enhance his on-field performance. He has the tools and athleticism and for a lefty shows a pretty quick delivery. Overall, Secord's recruitment will heat up as a senior, especially if he hits the camp circuit and continues to develop in the summer on the field and in the weightroom.
Clearly this review was done while he was a Junior. He clearly has the chance to be a very good college player and we'd give him some serious time to develop. I'm pretty questionable on left handed QB's, but maybe Jimbo can handle them?
Have a look at this video:
I have to be honest here, I don't want to take Will Secord. This is JUNIOR film, however, and I have no idea what he looked like as a senior. I do know that he completed 53% of his passes and threw 15 picks. I don't think he'll ever have "it". Coaches often think they can take physical tools and transform them into a good player. It's not always the case. Sometimes you need to have "feel".
His Stats?
| Rushing | Passing | |||||||||
| Statistics | Att | Yds | TD | PA | PC | Pct | Yds | TD | Int | |
| 2006 (So.) | 34 | 51 | 2 | 121 | 51 | 42.2 | 673 | 3 | 5 | |
| 2007 (Jr.) | 61 | 83 | 5 | 248 | 147 | 59.3 | 2,019 | 23 | 5 | |
| 2008 (Sr.) | 70 | 74 | 2 | 327 | 167 | 51.1 | 2,382 | 20 | 15 | |
Bill Walsh says that accuracy is the most important asset for a QB, followed by intelligence. Arm Strength was way down on the list.
CaStauch argues that you need to have "it".
I think, as do others, that we have a real shot at Quincy 5*, DT Gary Brown.
IF, and it's a BIG if, but If FSU can sign Brown, it might be the best defensive line class in the history of college football (on signing day; I'm not ready to project that these kids will all be amazing right yet).
This is the same Gary Brown who we profiled in our "Dear Gary Brown" Letter.
Apparently 4* OT Aubrey Phillips has all but decommitted from Tennessee and will choose between FSU and Arkansas. (Note: this is a rumor I'm not sure I believe). I am also unsure if I want to take Phillips.
We are getting official visits from Andre Debose and Trent Richardson. We will not sniff either prospect. Don't fall for the trap. Though... I do hear that recruits aren't loving Urban's cocky style.
We're also getting a visit from TE/DE Dan Hicks, son of former Seminole defender an Footman.
His dad was really good for FSU. I hear that we'll offer a greyshirt offer. He's smart too. Apparently crushed his SAT. We will offer the Greyshirt, he'll continue to get bigger and stronger, and come in and ball out for the Noles.
ESPN:
Hicks is a tall target with the frame to continue adding bulk. He is a high school tight end, but some college program may try to develop him into an offensive tackle. His current strength is blocking. Makes good initial contact and establishes good hand placement in the run game. Moves his feet and can generate some push off the ball. Needs to work on getting out of his stance quicker and on keeping his pads down. Lacks a natural leverage advantage (he's 6-foot-6) and must concentrate on staying low to generate more lower-body power on contact. Sometimes gets up on his toes and gets overextended. Shows solid pass-blocking skills and upside. Has a long wingspan and uses it well to reach and punch rushers, keeping them at bay. Flashes the ability to bend at the knees, but can get straight-legged. Sometimes hops back and opens too quickly. Needs to refine his footwork. Mirrors rushers pretty well, but leaves some openings that a good pass rusher could exploit. Has good potential as a red-zone target. Shows good hands and can catch away from his body. Has the ability to adjust to bad throws. Fights for yards after the catch. Lacks elusiveness, but makes it difficult for defenders to bring him down. Has only adequate speed and fares best in the short passing game. Hicks ultimately may wind up being a tackle at the next level, but he can be a productive blocking tight end who occasionally contributes in the passing game.
He's 6-4, 251, and is probably not done growing. Late Birthday. We'll wow him, offer the greyshirt, and this will be another great find, just like Taiwan Easterling was.
FSU usually has an amazing Junior Day and this year will be no different.
Some guys to look for include Karlos Williams, DejoShua Johnson, Darius Cummings, and other should be there.
Another new name is Tavares Barnes:
Class of 2010 jumbo athlete Tavares Barnes (Jacksonville, Fla./First Coast) comes from the same high school program that produced Ryan Stamper (Florida), Jermaine Thomas (Florida State), Nigel Carr (Florida State), and Avis Commack (Florida State) in recent years.
On Saturday, Barnes will head over to Tallahassee for Florida State's Junior Day where he hopes to spend time with Carr, Commack and Thomas.
"Those are all my boys and I know that they would take care of me if I went there," Barnes said. "Nigel and I are especially close. I've liked FSU ever since I was young."
Seminoles assistant Lawrence Dawsey, who signed Carr, Thomas and Commack out of First Coast in the 2008 class, was by the school last week to check on Barnes.
Barnes could potentially play tight end, defensive end, defensive tackle or offensive tackle in college.
Pipeline to First Coast? Let's hope so.
The Byrnes kids will also be there. Who?
The 6-foot, 205-pound RB Marcus Lattimore Lattimore likely is the biggest prize.
LSU, Alabama, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Duke, North Carolina and Clemson are among the schools that have extended early offers to Lattimore.
Corey Miller Miller is a tall, lean pass rusher that is an SEC/ACC level recruit. Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina and North Carolina all have offered him early and he is currently taking unofficial visits. Georgia is in the mix for the 6-foot-4, 220-pounder as well.
Willis could play defensive end or defensive tackle in college. Florida State, Clemson, Georgia, South Carolina and others all have offered him early. The 6-foot-4, 245-pounder is good at rushing the passer and colleges like him to grow into a three technique at defensive tackle or be a big end.
I think we are a lock to get Willis (as much of a lock as we can be at this point), have a good shot to get Miller, and won't sniff Lattimore.
Lamarcus Joyneris apparently transferring but I'm not sure where.
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I think you're seeing Jimbo adjust his style.
Perhaps he and Saban have independently (or collectively) come to the conclusion that the best way to keep an effective spread offense from scoring is to not give them the ball.
Saban has chosen to go about this using a powerful offensive line and a strong running game to eat the clock.
Maybe Jimbo has decided that the quick passes to the WR and the 6 yard gain are the most effective way to hold on to the ball, with a slight chance that somebody makes a play and breaks a huge one.
While at LSU, Jimbo had the luxury of some of the best defenses college football has seen in a while. He could go for the home run and not worry about the other team answering with an 80 yard play or drive of their own. Maybe he doesn’t have that kind of trust in our defense right now. After watching the NC State game, and our offense needing to keep the ball for 40 minutes to keep NC State from outscoring us, I tend to agree.
As long as we have the current defensive philosophy, I’d rather the offense run safe, efficient plays that consume clock but, of course, lead to scores. I think Secord would work in that type of offense with some coaching. Given the time frame, that type of offense would allow the new defensive staff a 2 year window to get their players in and used to the new system in 2012 and 2013.
I understand what you are saying but I somewhat disagree. The key to beating good offensive team is offensive execution. If they score everytime down the field you have to do the same. If you try and force a time consuming drive you have to execute that many more plays per drive which makes it harder to score points. I think you need to look at a defense and exploit what you can rather than play against the other team’s offense.
yes and no
its still about winning games. This year we played 2 games. One game our Off was always on the field. We won those games. The game where our Def was always on the field we lost. I think we can turn into one of those Big 12 teams that can win by just out scoreing other teams. Thats how we win next year I think. We have to work on our Def. I think that should be the main focus for Jimbo. He needs to find someone that will teach the Def and not just rely on sheer talent. I dont want to see ACC football turn into the big-12 where everyone scores 45-60 a game. I think one of the best games last year was the Mississippi State vs Auburn game was a great game. 2-3 Auburn. just 2 teams that suck but man you just sat there thinking on this play they will brake it long.
Des, but why were we on the field that much. Was it because we were scoring a lot or not executing?
Matt, I’m not saying a team should bomb it down the field every down but rather take what the defense gives you. A team should be able to execute better those plays that the defense concedes.
The Big 12 teams are a good example for me. Oklahoma specifically. They had 3 1,000 yard rushers this season. You don’t get that by bombing it down the field every play. You get that (and the points and a Heisman winner) by executing your plays and maximizing your possesions.
Not directed at you, evenflow, but...
Can we get a moratorium on the phrase “take what the defense gives us?”
Here’s an idea: We’re going to do what we want regardless of what you “give” us. We effectively and efficiently call our plays and know what situations suit our goals. Our players can execute the plays we call in any situation. We’re so good we dare you to stop us.
Thats not how it works
Too much to write here to explain but thats not how it works. Why do you think there are so many audibles on Offense, so many reads the QB, OL, WR’s, and RB’s have to make pre-snap and during the play. Its because you read what the defense is trying to stop, then call something that exposes the defense. You may want to “execute” your pass paterns to perfection but if the defense is doubling the WR you want to throw it to, its a bad call no matter how well its executed.
I guess I meant it in a broader sense.
If we want to run into an 8 man box, we will. And we will succeed. Will we avoid certain types of running plays? Yes. But if we want to run we will run. Go on and stop us.
If we want to throw into max coverage, we will. And we will succeed. Will we throw slow passes over the middle? No, but if we want to throw we will find a way to throw.
We will simply be better coaches and players than the other team.
In the simplest way I can put it
Regular dropbacks and regular runs will work against base defenses.
When the defense goes unorthodox, via playing 8 in the box, or going with a cheated/shaded coverage, you go to your adjustments.
In sum, you are always taking what the defense gives you. It is when your adjustments don’t work and you can’t keep the defense honest that the offense finds trouble.
Right and if the long ball is there as part of an adjustment I say take it no matter who you are playing. My point is that you should game plan against the defense regardless of the offense. If you tell your offense to keep things short even when the proper play is to throw long you are not executing your offense well. (I think that made sense.)
Great read.
What a pickup Brown would be but I still think he goes to Hogtown. Hopefully I am wrong on that.
In order of significance....
I would rank the remaining recruits:
1. Reid- Greg Reid or bust, IMO. And apparently our DB coach (who is that, again?) agrees with me.
2. Brown- A DT class with McDaniel, McAllister, and Brown would be legen… wait for it… dary. It might also even convince the coaches to play McAllister at DE. Btw… I don’t really think Brown is coming here, but he should (If anyone lives in Quincy, print copies of “Dear Gary Brown” and leave them everywhere throughout the city.)
3. Charles- Provides too much versatility on offense to be overlooked. Depth concerns at CB and DT are the only reason Orson isn’t higher.
4. Thomas- I just like the kid, sue me. If Downs doesn’t qualify, we need another safety.
5. Debose- No shot. No. Shot. But he’s too good a player to leave off this list.
If we’re taking and greyshirting Hicks, I personally don’t want Phillips. I don’t want Secord. I don’t even want Trent Richardson. Richardson is not the type of running back we need for our system. The only thing he might recognize about “1C” is that he’d consider it a great report card. He is a phenominal back. Just not for us. It just wouldn’t work with what we are trying to do with our blocking and running game. The only Richardson I’d consider playing running back for us next year is D’Vontrey (he has shown the patience on the QB sprints to be an effective 1C runner in my opinion).
I don’t think we should plan on having more than 80 people on scholarship next year due to NCAA restrictions. I don’t care what any website says, Evan Bellamy should not play football anymore. Take a medical hardship, get your degree, and have a great and successful life. That would put us at 61 players currently on scholarship for next season. Take Stork out of our current commit list, assume we keep all of our current commits, and that puts us at 76. 4 more players given scholarships this year seems about right.
I think I can speak for Uncensored when I say we were pretty amazed at how few people we’d been keeping on scholarship for the past few years. We’ve been operating at about 80 for quite some time. I guess the plan has been to give certain walk ons the extra scholarships. I think it’s safe to say that will be on hold for 2 years.
If We Can Consider Lonnie Pryor
A 1C backthen TR can be. Trent, IMO, is a better Lonnie Pryor. I love Lonnie, but they both aren’t considered 1C backs in HS and, honestly, TR is a stud, even better than Lonnie.
Just my opinion guys
I think Lonnie can be a great back and is a great back. Trent Richardson is also a stud running back. One never knows how HS players will transition to the next level so Lonnie could end up better than TR, but Trent you cannot pass on. Let them compete when they get here and let the best man win.
We have no shot at Trent
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 28, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
etc..
1. What are your thoughts on Pierre-Paul? Is he a stud? Do we have a chance?
2. I think we need to take a QB if DVo is gone. The odds of pulling in a top flight guy when we have EJ are low…perhaps Secord is the best we can do. That is fine with me, if Jimbo and Petrino like him.
3. The plays on Hicks and Stork are interesting. If they grow to be tackles, awesome. If not, we’re going to have a glut of slow TEs.
4. In response to the thought that the Lincoln staff could be in trouble if players stop going to FSU: what does this mean? Where is the pressure coming from? Lincoln or FSU? Based on how Rouse, B.Paul, Rodney Gallon, and others have fared lately, you can’t blame any Trojan for looking around. And if Starling is overrated, then no biggie.
5. Which recruits do you see as a rover/ss? We only have Moody on the roster there. This is a big-time need position.
Thanks!
Personally
I’m not sold on Pierre-Paul. His film wasn’t that impressive plus I don’t think we necessarily need to bring in another JUCO DE. His stats were so-so in JUCO but he has good measurable (height and size). Our goal SHOULD be to bring in a stud Freshman DE, not a guy that can only play two years. We have decent depth at DE, just some unproven 4 and 5-star talents.
I don’t think we NEED to take another QB with this class. We can roll with two and hope we don’t get screwed. Its just too late at this point and I don’t want to just take a depth signing that will never compete for the job.
I have no comment on the rest.
Out of those listings
what would you say is the likelihood of them committing besides Debose and Brown
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
Keep in mind I'm probably just pulling these numbers off the top of my head, but from what I gather....
I’d guess Reid is 55% (40% to UGA, 5% Other) to us right now. His visit this weekend to UGA will push them up though.
Charles is probably 35% FSU, 35% UGA, 20% USC, 10% UF/UT.
If we offer Phillip Thomas on his visit, I believe he will come here.
5% for Debose. Maybe 20% for Brown.
Prepare yourselves, Nole fans: We won’t get Starling. And it will be ok.
I think Hicks, given a greyshirt and redshirt year, should be expected to grow into a Trickett-Tackle.
Maybe not an Alabama Tackle, but one that suits what we do.
Am I the only one that thinks Debose is slightly overrated?
seriously, I wasn’t too impressed with his performance in the UA game. No Percy Harvin.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
. . . . but if we pulled him it would be important becuase of the blow Urban would take to his pride.
The lowly Seminoles stealing his number one.
Of course, we have no shot.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
He didn't look special on his long TD catch
Safety ran step for step with him.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 28, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
From What I hear
From those that are A) in the know or B)Paid to know these things, we have a better chance at TR than you think, and so does UF. TR is not as solid to Bama as some Bammers think.
Debose I think there is maybe a 10% chance. I do know that he isn’t coming just to recruit for UF but is coming actually for FSU.
Brown is a viable chance if we can get him in for the visit this weekend.
Philip Thomas is a Nole if he visits and is offered.
I don’t like this QB prospect. We should not sign one and hope that Ponder and EJ don’t both get injured. If D’Vo moves to Safety and plays next season maybe he could be the “emergency” 3rd string?
Look for a few commitments after NSD coming from this Junior Day.
I think we still look great for Reid and Charles. Throw in a 50% chance at Aubrey Philips at the moment. IF we can get 1 of the 3 committed 5-stars visiting this weekend I would be ecstatic, to put it lightly.
This is like watching someone wrap a gift from far away...
I cant see what is in the wrapping, only that it is being done.
In a more clear statement, this article was the equivalent of Christmas Eve. I love signing day. I cant wait to open the presents. I dont need any more clothes, but I could sure use a new Thomas to go with a Reid.
Okay, done with the metaphors. I hope we get some of these guys, that would really be great. As far as that QB, Im willing to trust Jimbo. He has yet to make any big recruiting mistakes, and I say, this is what he does. If he sees something, give him a shot. Like it was mentioned in the article, assuming EJ pans out, this kid wouldnt see the field for some time. And in that time, we would find out if he has “it.” If he doesnt, he becomes another kid who got to enjoy the wonderful companionship of FSU ladies, and he gets a job selling insurance or something. The only potential problem (IMO) is the potential lack of scholarships. Again, I say, I am willing to show some faith in the scouting eye of Jimbo.
Always love Wednesdays at Tomahawk Nation.
Great article and great comments already:
“The only thing he might recognize about "1C" is that he’d consider it a great report card.” Money.
“Look for a few commitments after NSD coming from this Junior Day.” Got it. Hold on now… I’m writing that down….
Thomas vs. Starling
Not too upset if we lose out on Starling. Watched him play in state title game and wasn’t overly impressed. He has bad pass coverage instincts. Tries to get by on his athleticism alone.
Thomas’s film is much more impressive. He’s very explosive to the ball. We need more ball hawking type safeties.
by FtLauderdaleNole on Jan 28, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions
What's in a name?
Not to be a hindsight 20/20 copout(assuming Starling does not choose FSU), but I believe part of the Jawanza Starling infatuation from drooling Seminole nation is a result of A) his sexy name, and B) his high school and the beaten-to-death “pipeline” cliche.
I’m not saying securing local talent isn’t important, but the long-term impact on missing out is negligible if we fulfill the need elsewhere. My point is that losing out on his hypothetical clone athlete, Ned Forbes from Washington Carver High in Shreveport, wouldn’t be nearly as newsworthy in Seminole country as losing out on Jawanza Starling from Lincoln High School.
Orson Charles
Orson gave his UGA visit a perfect 10.
On a positive note though, I am starting to hear a LOT of noise about Gary Brown possibly being a silent?
My third/4thish thought is that Greg Reid is looking great for a NSD commit and I don’t think we have a chance in hell to land Starling.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Lol, I'm an idiot
I just realized that this is the site I read about the Orson/UGA visit and the perfect 10 on…
Great article Censored!
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
If he likes UGA and Athens,
it’s over. I’ve spent a great deal of time in Tally and Athens, and in fact have degrees from both schools.
Have to say I prefer Athens for a college town, the UGA campus is nicer, it’s full of attractive women too, and FSU’s coaching staff is old and moribund overall. I can’t see pulling him away.
about this QB
Why would Jimbo go after him. I think there are more things in this. It says hes a chaches son right. I think there is someone there in the next 2-3 years Jimbo really wants. We are not going after this kid because hes a QB. We will go after a QB next year and try to get a real good one. I think Jimbo is trying more or less to get a good conection here at this school in TX to get someone else. At the same time, above they say this isnt the type Jimbo looks for. I think thats wrong kinda. good size (EJ, JaMa Rus-LSU) works out of the spread shotgun and is a touch and timing passer and an excellent fade ball thrower. I want to know about his speed but he sounds just like what Jimbo is looking for.
How does Richardson not fit into our system?
Actually, what is our running system?
I keep seeing 1 cut everywhere, Richardson isn’t that kind of back?
BTW great work, this thread was very fun to read.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
which Richardson are you talking about Dvo???
I thought they were saying hes going to S not RB. Maybe Im just lost.
There's some discussion of the concept in this story...
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2008/11/12/657340/strategy-session-675-pound
I think patience is the key attribute for a 1C running back. In the Escambia games I watched Trent seemed like a straight-ahead, hit the hole type runner.
Thanks
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 28, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
totally disagree
watched him alot live… he can lower the boom, but is a bounce side to side – pick you way through the traffic type of back.
That said I think we have better backs in stock now, and don’t really think his speed translates as well as some believe at the next level….
that’s my take.
Yeah, right!
I feel that is exactly what we need. We’ve had very highly touted running backs come through here (ie Lorenzo Booker and Antone Smith). Both failed to just hit the hole and go. When Preston Parker was back there for one or two games that is exactly what he did and was successful. JT seems to do the same, one cut and go. None of this dancing around crap. I’d love to see a back that can see the hole and just run through it. Our backs over the last few years take way to long to get ahead of steam and are way to slow to make it just to the line of scrimmage.
I think Ty Jones, is already showed he's this type
He gets on the whole with a quickness!
Yeah, right!
Interestingly,
that’s the opposite of the kind of back Dexter Carter was. He was definitely a dancer.
Can he effectively coach a 1C back?
Why We Need Gary Brown
Gary would fill a position of great need. Although Odell is great at developing pro talent, he’s come up short the past several years in addressing the situation. It’s about time Florida State finally signed a recruit with a John Waters-type moustache.!
We'll see if his accuracy
is as strong as some say. Remember Uncensored’s piece about accuracy being key in a spread offense. We haven’t struggled too much with quick quarterbacks recently (though we did sprain Tyrod’s ankle on the first play of the game). Interesting to see Clemson going in this direction
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
For what is worth
Jamie Newberg said that we have a good shot at Gary Brown. I dont know what to believe anymore, but I just dont see him or Debose switching I think they are going to Tally to recruit Richardson.
Lots and lots of smoke coming form Quincy..
And I think we’ve got a better chance at Trent Richardson then FSUn, though he is more than likely the better source considering he’s in Bama and all. But I do love Trent being recruited by Trickett.
Debose would have to be an idiot and the biggest FSU fan to not realize that he’s born to put up big numbers in Urban’s offense. This whole “it won’t prepare him for the NFL” schpeel is kinda grasping at straws if you ask me.
I think we land Orson Charles and Aubrey Phillips.
Phillips, Charles, Thomas and Reid
Is what I want.
Brown would be amazing.
I also want to oofer a greyshirt to Hicks ( I hope he is not a backup for us losing on Charles though)
UF preparation for the NFL
Can anyone name one solid (as in starter) offensive contributer in the NFL from an Urban Myer coached team?
who?
…exactly! I know UF is a college powerhouse right now, but I don’t understand why some much offensive talent is going there year after year. Even if you look at Urban’s players before he was at UF and the UF players under Zook, or even most under Spurrier. Very few pan out and many of them get injured, often! I can’t believe that college athletes go to a school just to be successful in COLLEGE. Look at the guys that are there now. Tebow is projected to be drafted at a different position, Harvin can’t stay health against us (let alone a ful NCAA season or NFL season for that matter), Rainy is too small to be an every down back even in College, etc. To all the offense players commited to attending UF I say this, “have fun for your 4 or 5 years in Gainesville, I hope you get your degree, b/c the Arena football league will likely never be seen again, and I don’t see a comback by the XFL any time soon either. I’m not saying FSU has produced a lot of offensive NFL talent, but there are at least a few players. Even Leon Washington made the pro bowl.
I know Gary Brown is on defense, but he must have no idea what he’s doing by going to UF and not FSU. Again, great letter on "Dear Gary Brown”
I dont think it hurts...
he is a fast but looks like another toshomon stevens. excuse the spelling..
You know I want to look at something
Recruiting in the ACC is going up and I think there are a few teams that are getting over looked. Miami is still rocking with 7 five* guys. UNC is right behind us at 11 overall class with 4 and Clemson still pulled of 5. I know * dont mean everything but what about the rest. From the looks of UNC year last year and the class they are getting we might see them over VT soon. If Miami can make something of there great classes that get then UNC and Miami might be the teams to beat in Coastal.
Dont get me wrong GT is still going to be strong but Now that LSU shut them down I think we will see them slowly drop next year. GT class isnt all that anyhow. they didnt lose much too.
Clemson might be in trouble next year. the coaching change and everything else really hurt them but they have bounces back better than other teams in the same problem. (Auburn and Tenn.) They take a huge hit with this class going out and have to replace a lot of big holes.
BC is going through a tough time and looks to be trying to get a whole new O-line. most of there guys are under everyones screens and are graded at 40 for the most part. Thats good and bad. ether they found something everone over looked or just took what they could. othere than finding someone to replace there 2 DT this team isnt loseing much ether.
NCSt I realy cant tell what they are trying to do. It looks like they are trying to get some speed out at WR and in the backfield to go with there QB. If that happens they might have a lot more wins over the next few years. They might not be getting the best recruits but they are getting a lot of them. the people they lose this year isnt hurting them.
Last WF left NC and went to VA and FL to get there guys. makes sence with NCST, UNC, ECU. they have nothing great ether but they are not loseing much.
I think the ACC is on the way up
FSU, Miami and UNC are all recruiting machines.
GT isn’t pulling great recruits but they can get good offensive production out of just about whoever they pull in. Their new QB in this class runs a 4.5, he could be deadly in that offense if he learns how to do the correct reads.
BC never has an impressive recruiting class but they always perform better on the field, same with Wake.
Clemson is one team I see struggling a bit in the future, same with Wake now that the Skinner era is almost over.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 28, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
My projection....
half of those 5* guys going to Miami go to jail or fail out.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
ACC
i’ve posted all season that THIS year. the ACC was the MOST underrated conference in football. People laughed and said they were garbage. Since they didn’t have an elite team. I guess no one cares about depth. One sign that proves my points. ACC was 7-3 against the number in bowl games. Meaning lines makers slighted them points as well.
D'Vo officially moving to safety
Straight from his own mouth.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2009/01/27/a4c_richardson_0128.html
by FtLauderdaleNole on Jan 28, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions
D'Vo should focus on tearing it up on the diamond this year and getting a fat MLB contract.
I really want him to succeed, but I think trying to learn a new position while playing another sport will be just as difficult as playing QB and baseball would have been.
maybe he will be good.
I just hate that we are waisting a scolly on him when we could get someone else. but I guess we kinda need him if something happens to the Qb.
this will be interesting to see...
I wonder if his quarterback background will give him an advantage at reading what the the other team does???
From Doc...
Fisher signed more than a few quarterbacks out of Texas
Fisher signed current LSU quarterback Jarrett Lee out of Texas when he was there. There is quite a bit of football talent in Texas. It is not bad to keep your foot in the door. I don’t buy the idea that FSU is set at quarterback with really just Manuel and Ponder available.
While at LSU Fisher was accustomed to having 5 NFL type quarterbacks on hand. That is what he does, develop quarterbacks. When one goes down you bring in the next guy. This way you are never caught in a situation where you have to bring in a young inexperienced quarterback and finish the season with them for better or worse.
I like lefthanded quarterbacks as they can give an entirely different look to a defense and be effective changes of pace in a game. Kenny the snake Stabler come to mind as well as Steve Young.
I have wondered about Gary Brown myself. It just doesn’t seem for a guy this close to Tally to be going to Gainesville. I am hoping he is a silent commit and payback for the Pouncey switch on national signing day.
Getting this guy would make it an unbelievable national signing day.
I am to the point where I could care less where Starling goes to school. It does not seem like he brings anything to the table Thomas does not. Lincoln High obviously has some coaches with large egos. Let them all go somewhere else and play as far as I am concerned. When FSU gets back on track and they soon will, those coaches and some of the players will see this thing for what it really is.
Just the fact that Thomas is basically a legacy recruit does it for me. I don’t care how many stars he has. He seems to have the kind of attitude we are looking for also.
Honesty I think Reid and Charles are simply looking at too much early playing time to pass up FSU. They are both sorely needed in this program.
If Secord is a ladies man someone email a shot of the FSU campus.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 28, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Lincoln...
Has been on a downhill slide for a while, not just the football program, but the school as a whole. Craphonso and Pat were good representatives of FSU. Unfortunately character issues have become a consistent problem with recent Lincoln recruits, Buck Allen is the next in line.
well if you want people from the panhandle
I would say PC, Fort Walton, Pincicola, Mad Co, and Lake City. to hell with Lincon and Godby never liked them anyhow.
And why aren't we in that area more?
Several good recruits are from the Panhandle this year and we haven’t been heavily in the mix for any of them.
We should own the panhandle.
Panhandle is "Lower Alabama"
I don’t mean this in a bad way, but after living in Ft Walton Beach for a couple of years, there are almost just as many Bama fans as FSU, UF, etc…
I concur...
but given our proximity to the area in comparison to these other schools, we should have a much better foothold.
FSU should just own this area.
I think the reason things have changed is because back in the 90s FSU had the pick of the litter. We could go into anyones home in the US and say hey come play and they would. Now we cant even get the ok guys out of our own backyard. I cant wait tell Jimbo takes over.
DOC,
I appreciate the effort there, but that picture is probably questionable for someone reading from work. Your boss walks by your cubicle and…
Ok, what picture?
Curiosity killed the cat.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Its ok Doc, My boss is on the UF sites
there is nothing like bloging all day from work. Best part is you all pay me for it. :P
Man if we get Brown
our d line has the potential to be sick the next few years. I would love to steal him from the Gates.
QB
What’s the deal with Nico Flores? Has Jimbo soured on him? Is he worth a ’ship to sit behind EJ? Or is he looking for playing time at a FIU-type place?
QB again
I supposed we feel the same way about local boy AJ Graham, too? Looks like he’s got some offers from a few decent places.
Count me as someone who thinks we need 3 QBs on scholly next year.
Also, I’d hate to have to bring in 2 QBs next year and have to re-live the Drew/XLee or Ponder/DVo debates. I know, I know, competition is good, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it divides the team.
I think2 QB's can work because we have D'Vo for emergencies, which is what going to a 3rd QB would be.
Also, I can’t see how having a 3rd QB would mitigate any potential controversey…
Then are you advocating
keeping DVO on scholarship?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Why doesn't the baseball team
give him the scholly?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Better than him being on
football scholarship.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
I think the best case scenario for the future of the football team as well as for D'Vo's future...
is a monster baseball season and decent draft pick this year.
No way
Baseball is very limited plus nobody gets a full scholarship in baseball.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 28, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
No, because I think we have a fine walk on who can play
but I forget his name so I didn’t want to bring it up.
AJ Graham
I was pleased w/how Graham played in the one game I saw him. He seemed to have good poise and throw a nice ball. Still needs a lot of work, but I feel he is worth at least an offer, plus I like that fact that he’s local.
I don't think Graham is a BCS conference caliber QB
I’ve watched his film and nothing really stands out
"Is he worth a 'ship to sit behind EJ"
Bravo! Excellent play on words!
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Doesn't look like we stand much of a chance
with Tail-er Jones. Esp if he doesn’t come to junior day……
What yall think?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Did someone stutter naming that kid?
I’d rather have Jose Jose and Frantanzy Bryant for my All-Awesome Name Team.
That may be one of the oddest hyphens
ever used in a name. I mean….usually if you hyphenate something, what come before and after BOTH make sense. -er? It was like somebody had the hiccups when they were telling the Dr. what to put on the birth certificate.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
I got an email about some chick in Louisianna who was angry that everyone mis-pronounced her name.
It was spelled Le-a.
She pronounced it Ledasha
Snopes doesn’t seem to know if the story holds water.
Also...
how close of attention are these guys paying to other commits on NSD. Is there any chance that if Reid says Alabama (hypothetically, I know its unlikely) that suddenly we miss on 3 or 4 more that were on the bubble?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Yeah, it happened last year
I think we’re either in for an incredibly kool-aid inducing signing day, or one that will spawn 3000 new posts about how once again we didn’t close whatsoever.
The momentum is riding high for us. Having arguably the #1 slot wr, #1 rb, and #2 DT in the country visit us on the last official weekend, thus making sure we get the last word, isn’t something to scoff at.
While we are busy not scoffing...
We don’t get the last word with Greg Reid or Orson Charles.
I’d personally trade Richardson for Charles and Reid for Debose.
Sorry for asking so many questions...
I don’t follow recruiting as much as yall, but who has the last word with Reid? UGA?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Whereas
Trent Richardson has always kept us in the picture, often to the chagrin of other sites interviewing him. Many different times he has snuck in a “Don’t forget about FSU” or “FSU is the dark horse” without a lead in question about FSU from the questioner. I love the fact that Trickett is recruiting him, despite what it says about our RB coach. Trickett is most likely selling him on our booming offensive line, Steve Slaton, Noel Devine, NFL success, rushing stats, and not to mention his personality is conducive to the Pensacola / South Alabama area.
If it is true that Alabama’s hold on him is weakening due to Lance Thompson’s departure along with Saban recruiting other RBs, then I’d believe that we, not UF, are in the best position to sweep in. He’s always been our #1 target at RB for this cycle, the reason we offered Lonnie as a DB for the first half of the season, and why we’ve sent one of our top guns to him more than any other prospect.
The curious case of Gary Brown is also looking more positive. He loves Odell, and before this news was broken, it was known amongst those in tally, whispering in hushed tones, that we may have taken the lead. He’s unofficially visited FSU often. The one thing that has always been in our way was his mama’s infatuation with Urban Meyer and UF. But, keep in mind, that Nigel Bradham’s momma loved Urban too. And, some have suggested that we had a very good visit with his mother when we sent the house. While it is rumored that she turned down Bobby for a visit at her work today, it may be a smoke screen.
Debose has given us every single chance to convince him to come to FSU. Like I mentioned earlier, he wants to, its just that we always look like garbagio when he comes through. Even still, he’s visiting, and according to his HS coach, it isn’t a facetious visit: there’s real meat. Still, flipping him would be the biggest surprise of the bunch.
Aubrey Phillips told some of our recruits that FSU was in the lead after his visit. If it came down to FSU and Ark, we would most likely win that battle. FSUn recently said that eventually Trickett was gonna start pulling in talented kids that also fit his system:
Aubrey Phillips, Andrew Datko, Zebrie Sanders, John Prior, David Spurlock, Rodney Hudson.
Were the unthinkable to happen and we hit the russian roulette this weekend, I’d figure Phillip Thomas would be the first to get squeezed out before he got in. In that case, especially with Debose, I hope and I think Downs to FS is more likely. If so, then that’s even better than getting Starling or Thomas. I was worried that if we landed either of them, that would give an excuse to keep Downs on the offensive side of the ball. Downs is a much, much better safety than either of them.
/kool-aid
by CaStauch on Jan 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also I look at Phillip as insurance for Downs not qualifying.
In addition, he has potential to develop into a solid contributor.
Also, I think people are underestimating the importance and significance of what was hinted in warchant's Harley and Reid articles
Bobby and Jimbo and FSU are selling these kids on being the difference and cause of winning a national championship this year, in what they’ve admitted will be Bowden’s last.
To have that strong of a bond to something that will forever hold historical water is powerful stuff.
After seeing Trent Richarson in person a few times
I’m really not all that impressed. I didn’t witness his 400 yard rushing games, which I belive he a a couple of those, but i did see him play against a decent defense, my alma mater Pine Forest, in which he rushed 17 times for 117 yards. Take away the 81 yard run he had in the 1st quarter, that’s 16 rushes for 36 yards, a whopping 2.2 yards per carry. i again saw him play in an All Star game in which he rushed for 55 yard and 0 touchdowns. His team also finished the season 5-5 and really didn’t play that many good teams
by Nole Holds Barred on Jan 28, 2009 4:30 PM EST reply actions
Thats how most high-school backs get their yards though.
If you remember Demetrius Summes (SC running back, who was arrested)…Thats how he would get it done. However, you can’t discount big runs.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Word has it
Gary Brown is done with his visits and is SOLID to UF. Hope this is a rumor but it is on the message board on the gator site. Odell better hurry up and work his magic
Yeah, his mom is pulling a Whitney Lewis' mom
Hopefully Gary Brown is 18 and can pull a Antone Smith.
In the frantic ebb and flow of recruiting, this last week is very malleable.
That's Very True
And I’m not saying he isn’t a talented running back. I just think he relies on his 4.5 speed too much. Most of his runs come on the outside where he just beats the defense to the edge. That works well against inferior defenses with undersized linemen and slow linebackers. If you take a look at his best rushing games they came against very suspect defenses. In the season opener versus Tate(4-7) he rushed 25 times for 211 yards against a defense that gave up 307 points in 11 games. Against Milton, he rushed 26 times for 419 yards. The same Milton team which went 3-7 on the season and allowed 322 points in 10 games. The next game, against an average Pace football team that went 6-6 on the season, he carried the ball 25 times for 148 yards, 5.8 yards per carry is not an astonishing figure for a high school back, He followed that game with a 14 carry, 84 yard game against Bryant, AL(4-6) and a 19 carry, 121 yard game against Niceville(9-2). He went on a bit of a tear the next 3 games, rushing 82 times for 866 yards albeit against teams with a combined record of 10-21. The next game was the Pine Forest (12-1) game I described earlier. He finished the season against Pensacola High School (8-3), his team needing a win to make the playoffs. He ended up rushing 17 times for 124 yards in a 30-7 loss, ending his high school career.
by Nole Holds Barred on Jan 28, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions
I don't know
the answer to this, but my guess is this is what the CJ Spiller, Noel Divines, Warrick Dunn’s of the world did as well though. Correct me if I am wrong.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
According to this Gary Brown isn't visiting us
http://www.tharinger.com/Recruiting.aspx
Sucks if it is true, I really thought we had a shot with him.
Brown is not
visiting because of his mother. She wants him to go to FU, plus his father lives in that area. Bowden requested a visit with Brown’s mother and she rejected him, didn’t even want to talk with him. A little while later Urbie was seen at her work. He is a Gator 100%. This isn’t the FSU of old where we could land top talent without them ever visiting the campus.
Some are telling me that Debose is only visiting to lure Richardson to FU.
Saban visited Reid for an in home visit and according to Reid it was great. His mom really liked Saban, and he visits UGA this weekend. FSU has already used it’s in home visit so all we can do at this time is call him.
Orson. I still feel pretty strong because he really likes Coley. If it where not for Coley FSU would not even be in the picture.
Willie Downs has made great strides in the classroom since getting him commitment over with and having a plan to follow. He is a lot closer to qualifying then people think.
Another to keep in eye out is CJ Mizel. He takes the standardized test on 2/7, so he still needs to get high enough score to get in. Not sure why he wanted so long.
I’m not sure what all the love is about Trent Richardson. think he is a good talent, but Bryce Brown is far and above every RB in this class. I rather have Orson because he can make an immediate impact. With Thomas, Jones, Pressely, Sims returning, Richardson would not contribute as much as Orson would in my opinion.
I agree
with Seminole64. I have to laugh when I see that handle also. I am sure Richardson is a good back but he would have to be to get much playing time over the backs we have now like Thomas.
Ty Jones when he is healthy is 5-11, 215 himself and he did not play in a soft league in Tampa. They don’t call him superman for nothing. He also runs a 4.5 himself.
Richardson probably has more sense than to go to UF where good backs go to die or leave, (talk with Bo Williams) and others. Herban just takes the one who shines first and runs the others off.
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