The Big Twelve's passing offenses are overrated
Note: This isn't directly related to FSU at this point, but I'll weave us (and the ACC) in during the coming days.
Sam Bradford. Graham Harrell. Colt McCoy. Zac Robinson. Chase Daniel. The Big 12 put up ridiculous numbers all season long and those five QB's finished in the top 10 Nationally in passer rating. I've long been skeptical of the Big 12's passing prowess, however, and I decided to finally investigate what was behind this gut feeling.
I really wish I could compare these team's performances against decent teams from other conferences. Unfortunately, OU, UT, OSU, TTech, and MIZZOU all scheduled garbage in the non-conference.
Oklahoma had the best non-conference slate, playing Cincinnati and TCU (a pretty decent mid-major), paired with hapless (and winless) Washington and D1-AA UTC. Bradford threw 17 TD's and 3 interceptions in these 4 warm up contests. In the rest of OU's games, Bradford threw 32 TD's and 4 interceptions. Does it concern you that Bradford's numbers were actually better against his Big12 competition than they were against his relatively weak non-conference slate?
Texas played only one BCS team in their non-conference slate: a terrible, rebuilding Arkansas team. They did play Rice and Florida Atlantic. Predictably, McCoy shredded these scrubs for 15 TD'S and 1 Interception. Against Big12 foes, he tossed 17 TD's and 5 INT's. Against Ohio State, probably the best defense the Horns played this year (by almost any measure), McCoy posted his lowest Passer rating of the year, at 138.3, as the Horns were held to their lowest point total of the year, winning 24-21.
Zac Robinson of Oklahoma State throws the ball far less than the other four quarterbacks on this list, but his numbers are gaudy nonetheless. OSU played a cake non-conference schedule as well. Once again, a Big 12 team did not face a BCS conference bowl team. Instead, OSU faced hapless Washington State, Houston, Missouri State (D1-AA), and Troy. Toy and Houston were bowl teams, but they weren't very good and I'll show you why that matters in a moment. Against the cupcake circuit, Robinson threw 7 TD's and 3 Interceptions. Luckily for the 'Pokes, they had 8 games against Big12 defenses to straighten out their slow starting offense. Robinson had better numbers against the Big12 than he did against a pretty poor non-conference slate, throwing 17 TD's and 5 Ints! In the first challenging non-conference game of the season, Robinson posted a QB rating of 107.87, his worst performance of the year for his only game against a BCS conference team with a winning record, just as McCoy did. Oregon had a slightly above average defense nationally, but nowhere close to dominant. It was probably the 5th or 6th best in the Pac10
Graham Harrell of Texas Tech continually puts up gaudy numbers. But if Bill Snyder invented the cupcake string at Kansas State, Mike Leach perfected it. Stop me if you've heard this before, but... Texas Tech did not face a BCS conference team with a winning record. For their non-conference slate, TTech faced Eastern Washington (D-1AA), Nevada, Southern Methodist, and UMass (D-1AA)! That's laughably bad. What's funny, however, is that TTech actually threw the ball better against Big12 competition than they did against their pathetic non-conference slate. TTech chucked it for 12 TD's and 3 INT's against their non-conference slate. Against Big12 competition, TTech chucked 31 TD's and 5 INT's! In what seems to be a developing pattern, TTech finally had to face a team with a decent defense away from home. Results predictable, as Harrell threw 58 times, had 4 TD's, 2 INT's. Once again, a "prolific" Big12 offense had to travel away from home and face a decent team from a big conference. Once again, they were exposed.
This brings us to the biggest fraud of them all... Chase Daniel. A friend of mine has a connection with some NFL scouts. He told me that the scouts came to watch Daniel's backup instead of Chase. Daniel appears to be out of shape and is the only QB in this group who is close to wearing a size 40 pant. I'll skip the descriptions here. Missouri did not face a team from a major conference with a winning record. They destroyed the weak slate of Illinois, Missou State, Nevada, and Buffalo, throwing 13 TDs and 1 INT. Against the "not that bad" Big12 defenses, Daniel tossed 26 TD's and 14 INT's. As was the case with the other QBs on this list, Daniel finally had to face a team from a major conference with a winning record. The results were pathetic, as Northwestern held Daniel to his worst performance of the year! 27 of 44 for 200 yards 2 TD and 3 INT!
I am going to withhold judgment on Bradford. Why?
Talent
I often caution Tomahawk Nation readers from using the NFL as a measure of college football performance. That said, it does have its place in this discussion. The NFL is the great talent filter. The NFL doesn't care what conference a player plays in; only that they will be able to play in the league.
Why were Oregon, Ole Miss, Northwestern, and Ohio State successful in holding these "prolific" offenses to their worst passing performances of the year? I'll go with defensive backfield talent, or the lack thereof.
To be frank, the Big12 has the worst cornerback and safety play of the BCS conferences. Don't believe me? Let's ask the NFL.
Do Big12 defensive backs have success in the NFL?
A quick scan of the Pro Bowl roster doesn't reveal any Big 12 defensive backs. Who is included among the 6 corners and 6 safeties? 4 from the ACC, 2 from the Big 10, 2 from the Pac 10, 1 from the Big east, and 3 from Division 2 schools (wild, huh?)
Still maybe they are just below pro-bowl level? Not hardly.
The NFL hated Big12 defensive backs. This chart shows The NFL draft year, the total # of DB's drafted (overall), and the
| DB's Drafted | YR | 1ST RD | 2ND RD | 3RD RD | 4TH RD | 5TH RD | 6TH RD | 7TH RD |
| 50 | 2005 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 |
| 43 | 2006 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 50 | 2007 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
| 45 | 2008 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
I decided to go deeper here. My thoughts were that it's not so much defensive back play that has been horrible, but specifically cornerback play.
Here are the Big12 corners drafted from 2005-2008 (the last 4 years).
| 1 | 20 | Aqib Talib | Kansas |
| 1 | 20 | Aaron Ross | Texas |
| 1 | 23 | Fabian Washington | Nebraska |
| 2 | 62 | Terrence Wheatley | Colorado |
| 2 | 48 | Cedric Griffin | Texas |
| 2 | 56 | Darrent Williams | Oklahoma State |
| 2 | 34 | Brodney Pool | Oklahoma |
| 3 | 84 | Ellis Hobbs | Iowa State |
| 3 | 75 | Reggie Smith | Oklahoma |
| 4 | 103 | Antonio Perkins | Oklahoma |
| 5 | 142 | Zack Bowman | Nebraska |
| 5 | 147 | Tarell Brown | Texas |
| 5 | 141 | Donte Nicholson | Oklahoma |
| 5 | 167 | Mike Hawkins | Oklahoma |
| 7 | 226 | C.J. Wilson | Baylor |
| 7 | 229 | Willie Andrews | Baylor |
For those of you who follow the NFL, you'll see a ton of busts on that list. A few average starters, but nobody special. Texas seems to be doing okay here. The huge failure school is clearly Oklahoma. Why can't Bob Stoops produce a decent defensive back? Oklahoma State gets a pass as their lone entry was a decent player before he was shot to death.
The Big12 has done better job producing NFL safeties:
| 1 | 19 | Michael Griffin | Texas |
| 1 | 7 | Michael Huff | Texas |
| 2 | 40 | Josh Bullocks | Nebraska |
| 2 | 40 | Daniel Bullocks | Nebraska |
Again, Texas and Nebraska are producing the decent defensive backs, while the rest of the conference lags horribly behind.
The NFL is practically allergic to taking a late round flier on a Big12 defensive back. There are literally zero diamond in the rough type players coming from Big12 secondaries. Not one late drafted Big12 defensive back has amounted to anything over the latter part of this decade.
In watching these offenses get exposed against decent teams from the other conferences, it became obvious: Big 12 defenses don't have the defensive backs to play at the level needed to stop these passing games. Ole Miss played aggressive man-free on Texas Tech. While we've constantly heard that you can't blitz a spread team, the results on the field proved otherwise. Oregon did much of the same.
If I were these a Big12 defensive coordinator, I would gamble all the time. I know that my defensive backs are horrible, but playing loose zone and dying in 5-yard chunks is no way to play football.
The Big12 isn't projected to produce much in the way of defensive back talent this year either.
The strategy of never challenging these Big12 QB's is even more ludicrous when you consider that the Big12 can't produce a decent quarterback! I'm sure you're viewing this statement with some skepticism, but hear me out.
There are no starting QBs in the NFL from the BIG12. Here's the chart:
| ACC | 5 |
| SEC | 5 |
| B10 | 5 |
| PAC10 | 3 |
| B12 | NONE |
| BE | 4 |
| MM | 10 |
Come on Big12! You can't produce even ONE starting QB in the NFL? Really?
Well... I guess the NFL would have to think enough of a BIG12 QB to actually draft one in the first place (though the undrafted route is always an option).
The Big12 has had ONE QB drafted in the last 4 years! His name? Vince Young. With a motion reminiscent of someone flinging dog feces off his hand and the footwork of a Forest Gump as a child, Vince did nothing to encourage scouts that Big12 QB's could actually play. One scout called a certain Texas QB (Phil Sims Son) the "worst coached talent I've ever seen."
So, maybe these Defensive Coordinators don't play aggressively because they respect the opposition's receivers?
This might have some merit this year, as Crabtree and Dez Bryant have been studs for the Big12, and Maclin is a nice all-purpose player. Still, the Big12 has had only ONE first round receiver in the past 4 years.
Some final "Big 12 pass defenses are horrible and inflate the Big12 passing offense numbers" nuggets:
- Missouri was the ONLY team to surrender 300 yards passing to Northwestern.
- Ole Miss had its 2nd best passing day of the year against... Texas Tech.
Is there a reason behind this madness? Actually, yes. For a long time, the Big12 was a power running, option football conference. Passing in the harsh windy climates of the plains was seen as radical and unrealistic-- until someone tried it. As generally happens, you have an attack and a counter. These passing offenses are the attack. We are still waiting on the counter. The Big12 is just several years behind the rest of the Nation in terms of defending the pass. If I were a defensive back, and I had any kind of confidence that I'd get good coaching, I would play in the Big 12, because their defensive back play is embarrassing. Top recruits should be able to play early in Big12 country.
Sam Bradfor will likely take a lot of heat off of the conference. While I think McCoy is a nice college player but a 6th round NFL pick without much physical ability, Bradford has the tools and the smarts to succeed at the next level. Ditto Robinson. Harrell doesn't have enough arm to make up for hit statuesque pocket style, and Chase Daniel looks to be about 5'8 240lbs.
If Oklahoma is able to hang with UF come Thursday night, it'll be because they have a legit pro prospect at under center. I still think the Sooner's defensive back play is pathetic though, as it has been for quite some time, and that will likely doom them.
Here's to an exciting shootout-- one that has Bradford coming out on top while still allowing the Big 12's pass defense to be further exposed.
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Comments
I love this
Not only can you tell the truth but you say it with so much heart. I dont know the numbers or who played who but I dont think these Big 12 QB are as good as others. If FSU had an O-line like theres Ponder might be up there with them. Also If we had there schedule too. I dont want to say they are bad teams because they are not. But they are over rated. I would love to see them play better schools. At least USC will try to get harder teams. I think OU Qb is prob the best out of the bunch but I guess we will see on Thur.
by Desman on Jan 6, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought the scheduling was surprising.
TCU was the best out of conference team these five squads played.
USC makes it a point to play out of conference games against teams who are consistently in bowl games (This year UVA and Ohio State, and in previous years they’ve smoked Auburn and Va Tech).
I’m not sure Ponder is anywhere near as good as any of these guys, but I do think he’d have much better numbers in the Big 12.
The ACC produces the MOST defensive players in the NFL, by a big margin, and they succeed. This is because the ACC has a ton of ex-nfl defensive coaches.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Synopsis
Thought I would say Talib, Ross, Washington all have serious potential. Talib proved to be a very good opportunistic corner, though he did struggle in coverage at times. Anyway, I do agree with you.
Another thing I thought was humorous was last night they continually talked about Texas rush defense, and how good that was. True, there is 4 1,000 yard rushers in the league (which I don’t think is all that impressive anymore) but two of them come from Oklahoma who is really the only team outside of OKSt. that have legitimate run games.
Desman, I would be careful about relating bad passing defenses to bad quarterbacks. They aren’t as ‘good’ as their numbers are but Bradford and McCoy are both excellent quarterbacks. McCoy showed it last night. I think Bradford will show it against Florida.
I would disagree about your prospect of Colt McCoy Bud. I think he will be a very highly touted QB for the NFL. Your right, his numbers ARE inflated, but lets take that out of the equation. Last night, his offensive line couldn’t handle the blitz at all. And boy, did they blitz him. He has a very quick release (unlike Tebow), very mobile (though he won’t run in the NFL, it will help him move around the pocket nicely, and escape pressure), he is physically tough and can take big hits. He can heave it, but he can also put it on a rope for the underneath stuff. He struggled with his timing some last night, but thats a coachable flaw. I would go for it if Tampa went with him….
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know you are right but
I dont like Texas. I was born in Houston and just always hated them thats all it is. Kinda like USC will always hate them. but I know you are right.
by Desman on Jan 6, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine point, UNF
Of the ofenses I mentioned, I schematically like OSU, OU, and TTech the best. I am not a fan of Texas’ and Missou’s schemes. I won’t get into exactly why in a comment section, but the first three just look better to me.
I just don’t think McCoy is much of an NFL prospect. This is a horrible QB year for the draft; one of the worst in recent memory. Numerous senior busts have made us prop op guys like Stafford and Bradford a year early, though they both need another year of seasoning. I believe McCoy got a poor review when he asked the NFL about his prospects.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I would agree about it being a bad draft for quarterbacks.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about the WR
If these guys are getting these numbers that has to say somethink for the WR over there too. Is this going to be a big year for WR in the Draft. Not that I can see any team other than the lions but they need new everything.
by Desman on Jan 6, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
I think there is a couple of big play recievers but there is a bunch of guys that will be good role players. I think thats pretty true about this draft in general outside of DL. There is going to be a lot of good 3rd-5th round type players.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Elaborating
I’m not totally sure why I don’t think McCoy will succeed in the NFL . I don’t think he does anything exceptionally well (the “good, not great” problem). He also throws an ugly deep ball and crouches in the pocket… just like someone on our team…
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That crouching thing
can be fixed though. It is the strangest thing. I wonder if they feel like the can get more drive on the ball when they do that. It can’t be a comfort thing. Its a lot like golf in that sense with leverage. You are not going to get more leverage on a drive by squatting and having a ridiculously wide stance.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So many offenses though
coughTampacough don’t throw it downfield much. That whole westcoast crap. I think when he does throw it deep his timing is his problem. That interception was just way behind the guy and floated.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
draft
I really don’t think we’ll see great QB drafts until the NFL adapts to modern football. There’s less and less pro style QB’s every year. It’s gotten to the point where the Barkley kid at USC seems out of place. Do you think anyone would recruit Drew Weatherford these days? Is Matt Ryan really that good, or is it that he’s one of the few remaining pro style QBs that ATL got lucky with.
This dysfunctional coaching hiarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
by mp212121 on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the NFL does do what you suggest
QB salaries will plummet. Teams will not subject their $120 Million dollar men to that type of punishment.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
You don’t get stuff like this anywhere else on the web. Good discussion going on now too. And of course paysites would never have the incentive to put something like this together. I mean, what fan of the Big 12 would pay to see analysis like this?
In a related note, I’m still cleaning up a laughter-induced Diet Coke spill from top-secret paysite “analysis” taken in before the caffeine had time to take effect this morning. It’s a good thing I don’t miss that $10/month anymore or I’d have to account for laugh per dollar spent and seriously question the moral dilemma I face for contributing to fraud.
I’ll say this for Colt McCoy: Damn, that was intense after my migraine medicine* last night.
*Stuff makes you loopy. No, you can’t have any.
by TRMNole on Jan 6, 2009 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and i'll add that his girlfriend is smoking hot...
“so i’ve got that going for me……….which is nice….”
by Renegade11 on Jan 6, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll have something on the ACC soon that'll make us look both good and bad
Just haven’t been able to put it together, yet.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to go after our QBs....
use their whole stat lines. You tried to make a point about Colt McCoy by mentioning his passer rating from last night’s game but sort of failed to mention the fact that he threw for over 400 yards, accounted for 3 TDs and completed 70% of his passes in that game. Everyone may want to jump all over OSU but they did give up less points to Penn State than USC did and they have a LB who has won every damn award in the book and an NFL bound corner back so McCoy was impressive whether you want to give him the credit or not (which obviously you don’t)
by Pantheon on Jan 6, 2009 10:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Passer rating is the all encompassing stat
You and I both know that passer rating takes all of that into account. He did all the things you mentioned, and I entered them into the formula. Obviously the stats are massively inflated because of his FITFY-EIGHT Attempts.
As for Ohio State, I think I gave them plenty of credit by saying:
Against Ohio State, probably the best defense the Horns played this year (by almost any measure
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A LATE 4 quarter
comeback engineered by a quarterback is an intangible. There is no doubt that McCoy can play ball, I dont even think uncensored is arguing that. His point is simply the first time that he sees a good defense his quarterback rating takes a hit. It takes a good quarterback to do what he did last night. OSU had no fear of the run game, yet on the final drive McCoy still picked them apart. I don’t think Ponder would have that ability.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think people wanted to much from ponder this year
Hes a So. I think he will be a good QB for FSU but we need to give him a chance to grow. FSU has gotten better on evey snap they took – the WF game. The big 12 have o-lines. w/ no Def. Im not saying they are bad teams but they are not USC, UF, well I think OU is but the rest are not. I think there QB are good QB but not all that. its like who was a better RB in the NFL Barry or E. Smith. I think Barry because he didnt have the O-line to run behind like Smith did. The big 12 QB have better o-lines and worst Def they are running agenst. where the ACC has better D and worst Off.
by Desman on Jan 6, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tressell Blew the game for OSU, they were more talented than Texas and should have won. His conservative play calling and basically retarded play calling inside the red zone killed OSU. Not to mention he played the statue boekmen who sucks big time lmao
by Cee on Jan 6, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pryor Running short of the First Down
On two separate occasions, Pryor went out of bounds 2 yards before the first down, one time in the redzone and he could have easily got the first down. After both plays OSU had a 5 yard penalty and had to punt on one possession and kick a field goal on the other. That was a critical mistake on his part.
by dj2fsu on Jan 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also.......
I think the ref’s got that pass interference in the endzone wrong. However, on Pryor’s first touchdown (receiving) I felt like that was a OPI that wasn’t called. Pryor had his arms fully extended on the safety.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if they are reluctant to call OPI on a quarterback
They shouldn’t be as he’s a freak athlete, but I don’t know.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats kind of what I thought too.
You could see the ref hesitate for a minute, but I just don’t know if he felt like that was too ticky-tack of a call. But then 5 minutes later, another ref throws the flag on the same thing (but it was a bad call, they just tripped each other up). Pryor has a LONG way to go with his arm for sure thugh.
by UNFNOLE on Jan 6, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The other OPI call was pretty specious. Pryor looks like a more developed vince young, to me.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its like that bc the game is on FOX they have to have terrible refs to go with the terrible announcers calling the game. I’ve never seen PI called on both sides of the ball on the same play. All year though the refs have been letting it go when it comes to PI in the endzone, especially on the O.
by dj2fsu on Jan 6, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FOX will respond to your comment...
…right after this commercial break!!
by TRMNole on Jan 6, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Cherry is doing the National Championship Game.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rejoice!!!
Some people hate Ron, but once you realize he is incompetent and not biased he becomes a lot more entertaining.
I would encourage everyone to take notice of how demonstrative he is on his penalty calls. That man is a master of his craft.
I really think his “business” call changed my entire outlook on the officiating of Ronald F. Cherry.
by MattDNole on Jan 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah pryor made mistakes for sure as he’s still in diapers. But he was the most talented player on the field. Leaving the clown boekmen in who couldn’t start for one decent team and wasting all those plays was a joke.
by Cee on Jan 6, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome breakdown...
I must say, I bought the Big 12 hype. Watching OSU, TT, and Texas (even though they won) sputter has been eye opening. However, based on Oklahoma destroying everyone in their path other than TU, including a great TCU defense and a BCS team (even if it is the Big East), I think the OU offense will have a better showing, at least in the first two quarters. Do they have the depth to run with Florida? I don’t know, but it will be a great test for Bradford, as it’s a good bet he’ll see more pressure than he’s seen all year.
I will also say about your comments on OSU/Oregon, that the Oregon pass defense is not very good. The biggest problem is that they don’t have a free safety. They were able to limit the OSU offense in the Holiday bowl by playing more aggressive, and by playing a more physical game. They just flat out beat up OSU. And this seems to be the case with a lot of Big 12 teams. You can beat them up, and win the physical battle.
Speed, passing, spread, all that is important. But you also need the fundamentals, which the Big 12 may not have at this point in time.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Jan 6, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
OU is the best offense in the conference
They simply have the best pieces. The best OLine and a guy who is a consensus top 10 pick as a 20-yearold. I worry that their offensive line can’t handle the pressure UF will bring, as you mentioned. For all the praise their line gets, NFL scouts don’t drool all over these guys. Are there any pro bowl OU linemen starting in the NFL? What Oklahoma linemen are even doing well in the NFL? Starting? My point is that they are probably too massive for their own good and can’t move.
USC exposed this offensive line hype three years ago and I expect UF to pull something similar come Thursday.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
???
didnt Utah do that to them too like last year
by Desman on Jan 6, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think OU played Utah last year
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, yes.
Another fine example of their mediocre defensive play.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nebraska is part
of the Big 12.
Once again, a Big 12 team did not face a BCS conference bowl team.
Nebraska played Virginia Tech, losing in a close game to them in Lincoln. Virginia Tech won the ACC, made it to the Orange Bowl.
No starting QB’s in the NFL – who the hell cares? We play college football, not NFL. The offense from college and especially the Big 12 don’t translate to the NFL. It’s not a valid measurement of collegiate success.
Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
by Jon Johnston on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I meant the 5 teams I mentioned with the "dominant" offenses
As for the NFL, I did say it’s not a great measure of college success. I said it’s a good filter of talent, and I used it as a tool to see why these Big12 offenses destroy the Big12 defenses but sputter against decent defensive talent.
I thought I praised the Big Red here quite a bit. You guys are producing good safeties.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just thought I'd mention..
hey guys, I’m a Texas fan and I’ll say that I think this is a pretty interesting breakdown…
The one thing I’d like to mention though is that in the OK state/Oregon game Robinson played the 2nd half of the game w/o a healthy Dez Bryant and with a seperated shoulder. If memory serves me correctly they were up at the half and looking pretty good up until Bryant went down.
by andmyster on Jan 6, 2009 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome, Andy. Fair point
OSU had 259 1st half yards to UO’s 250, and they led 17-7 (Oregon missed 2 1st-half field goals).
I tend to favor the Bryant point more than the Robinson point. Bryant is clearly a freak athlete, and UO struggled to cover him. They did get a ton of pressure on Robinson, however, and I was a bit underwhelmed by the play of OSU’s supposed stud NFL prospect LT (name escapes me). Robinson got blasted all night.
Why don’t any of the B12 teams have the guts to bring pressure? It’s obvious the DB’s can’t cover well, and that the soft zone stuff is being repeatedly picked apart.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
guts to bring pressure?
What you got there in the ACC for mobile quarterbacks? Tyrod Taylor, VT – freshman, still pretty raw. You got your guy from FSU, whom else? Certainly not Cullen Harper. Georgia Tech could count, but they’re not so much a threat to pass, IOW, single-dimensional. SEC mobile quarterback….. hmmmmm.. Jevan Snead? Just wondering off the top of my head.
In the Big 12 you’ve got Colt McCoy, Chase Daniel, Robert Griffin, Austen Arnaud, Zac Robinson, Joe Ganz, Todd Reesing, and Josh Freeman for mobile quarterbacks. McCoy proved last night what happens when you bring pressure – he either finds a guy from where you blitzed or runs around you and scores. Bradford and Harrell… not so mobile, although Oklahoma has been so efficient on offense he hasn’t had to carry the ball much.
The way that most Big 12 offenses operate, you have 11 guys on defense playing against 11 guys on offense, which makes them darned hard to defend against. For many other conferences, you effectively have 11 guys on defense playing 10 guys on offense, just like you do in the NFL.
Were Big 12 defenses playing mostly against pro-style offenses, i.e., Nebraska vs Clemson, they’d be playing good defense. Against their own conference, they struggle, just like everyone else has.
In defense of Chase Daniel, once Mizzou lost to Oklahoma State, their dream season was over. They had one of the best teams in school history, yet won no championships. Missouri played just about as badly as they could in the Alamo and still beat Northwestern.
Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
by Jon Johnston on Jan 6, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Russell Wilson (excellent after being concussed in 2nd game) and JaCory Harris (Miami) are both more mobile than Robinson, McCoy, Reesing, Freeman, or Daniel. Chris Crane of BC was at least as mobile as Freeman or Daniel.
The SEC definitely lacks Mobile QB’s, which I find interesting. Next year, however, they will have Snead, Jefferson (LSU), Tebow, Jackson (‘Bama), Vanderbilt’s kid, and Cody Burnes at Auburn.
Essentially, I don’t believe these Big12 QB’s are as mobile as you do. Specifically, Reesing, Freeman, and Daniel.
I’m glad you brought up 11 on 11, which is clearly tougher to defend. We discuss that a lot here.
Daniel is a bad player and I wouldn’t take him on Florida State. He makes really poor decisions and got exposed against every decent defense he played. Wearing out Northwestern! shouldn’t be anything special, and besides, he didn’t wear them out.
The Big12 got blitzed by non-conf teams and that resulted in those top offenses having their worst days of the year. The out of conference defenses took the more aggressive approach and did much better than the Big12 defenses did (probably because the Big12 defenses aren’t very good and lack talent in the defensive backfield).
Side note… Nebraska loses 7 of 11 offensive starters… how much confidence you have in Pelini’s staffs ability to concoct a decent offense with so many new parts.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! This is freaking masterful analysis.
I knew they were bad, but never that bad. Tebow might get a chance to drive up his draft stock in this game if Mullen takes advantage of the horrible pass defense (He’s not coming out this year, but it wouldn’t hurt to destroy a #1 team in the NatChamp game). Thanks for all the work you put into this Uncensored!
Oh, and you might want to consider having someone edit your work. You appear to be headed to the big time, and this story is riddled with grammatical and spelling errors, which mostly look to be typos. Just a suggestion.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 6, 2009 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Uncensored works his ass off late at nights to bring us this stuff.
No one on this site is a grammar police, and he knows this. Bud is very gracious and will take your backhanded compliment and suggestion in stride. I’d personally like to tell you that you’re an ass.
by TRMNole on Jan 6, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't a "backhanded compliment."
I said he appears to be headed to the big time, as in writing this kinda stuff for a living.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 7, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's difficult to see what the post looks like in the
preview thread. Sometimes the spellchecker doesn’t work in the box. I’m not much of a typist. I just wanted a place where FSU fans could escape from the groupthink (though we have some here as well) of the other sites.
Mostly though, I just didn’t have anything to throw up today (when I put this together I didn’t have confirmation on the Everette Brown thing), so I just cobbled it together last night.
Tebow is a gr8 colage player & (hurts to say this) will almost undoubtebly go down as the best colgele player ever.
That said, his footwork is terrible. He makes Byron Leftwich look like Captain Quick Trigger. He throws three routes well, and usually has the advantage of a great play-action game. His SAT score probably won’t translate into an encouraging Wonderlic score. Kiper called him a great HBack prospect, and I agree. I’d draft him because he’s a good character guy who could contribute a ton on special teams and is pretty versatile.
by FSUncensored on Jan 6, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True...
I had forgotten about the pain in ass SB Nation has for a post creator. And this work looks like it took forever and was probably worked on the entire night and posted at dawn. If you have any interest in writing this stuff for a living though, an editor might help your chances of getting noticed and considered for a bug job. At least that’s what they tell us in high school.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jan 7, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not disappointed
I feel like one of the only Longhorns who isn’t upset that we didn’t kill Ohio St. People are breaking this down on paper but if you look around the bowl games, you see a rather obvious trend when teams are doubted the way OSU was (Utah anyone?). They had to listen to people telling them they had zero chance for weeks leading up to the game and Texas, even if they say all the right things to the media, was disappointed to be playing the tenth ranked team when they were looking at a team they beat play for a NC. To come away with a win in that situation still feels good to me and I don’t care if it was only 3 points. I bet Bama would take a 3 point win about now eh?
by Pantheon on Jan 7, 2009 9:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Texas should be proud of a great win
I didn’t intend this a knock on Texas, but rather as a critique of the Big 12’s passing offenses in general.
by FSUncensored on Jan 8, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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