Florida State retains the worst head coach in college football for another year
by Bud Elliott on Jan 9, 2009 12:45 PM EST
in FSU Football
360 comments
Don't get mad. Can you honestly think of a coach who does less with more? Is anyone less involved in the day to day activities of a program? Is anyone a bigger drag on a program?
Photo Credit: AP
Other notes inside... (including someone visiting Greg Reid)
Nobody in their right mind would hire Bowden for any coaching position (barring a publicity stunt). We decide to pay him $2.5 Million.
Today's press conference was a joke. I didn't attend, but I talked to someone inside the program and they are embarrassed for Bobby and embarrassed that our university is being represented by this washed up delusional geriatric.
Things Bowden didn't know at today's presser:
- Coach Rick Tricket's contract situation
- The scholarship situation
- Eligibility status of some players
- Bowden hadn't talked to D'Vontrey Richardson and didn't know if Jimbo Fisher had either.
- Apparently (I didn't get this from talking to my reporter friend, but rather from Seminole 64), Bowden didn't know the specific recruits that are coming into town. Nick Saban is webcamming with kids. Bowden can't keep track of recruits. Somehow, we expect to compete at an elite level.
Things Bowden did know:
- Mickey Andrews will draw another paycheck
- Jeff Bowden will coach with Terry at Directional Alabama
Not only does UF have maybe the best coach in college football history (in terms of "I wouldn't take anyone over him in his prime"), but we have the worst. head coach in major college football.
Mickey Andrews coming back assures us of a couple things:
- More teams taking advantage of our stale scheme
- Continued focus on intensity and energy instead of strategy and execution
- More wasted money from the university
My friend said that some coaches are angry. They're angry because good assistants now don't want to come play for Bowden after hearing how he lets some long-time assistants operate under a ridiculous double standard, fostering an air of chaos and immaturity.
- BYU will play Oklahoma in Dallas on September 9th, Tulane in New Orleans on September 12th, and then host FSU on the 19th. That is a lot of travel in back to back weeks to play relatively big games. This is good for the Noles.
- Mickey Andrews will visit Greg Reid today, along with a mystery coach (almost assuredly Dexter Carter). I don't think this will matter. Some have speculated that Reid will not even graduate high school on time.
- Props to Steve Ellis at the Democrat. He's now producing at the level I'd expect from the local paper covering a major college team. More analysis and information. Less fluff pieces.
- Ellis also informs us that Orson Charles will officially visit this weekend, in addition to DT Robinson (Miami commit), Chris Thompson (FSU commit), and maybe Ed Stinson. I don't think Stinson will come. I also think the Orson Charles battle will come down to FSU and Tennessee. Hopefully we pull him. He's the prospect I am most confident we can still pull.
- Bowden is still a "closer", right? Right? Yeah. Anyone who still believes he factors into recruiting other than from a purely Jesus angle (and I'm a Christian, I'm not knocking), has a Tee time with Bowden.
- Baseball News: Kyle Long got a DUI two days before he left school. His dad says it was not the reason he left school. The real story? I hear that his leaving school was more a function of just leaving Tallahassee and that there wasn't much school going on at all.
To close, Bowden's last remaining support group consists of TK, a few select big boosters, and the Mickey/ Amato combo.
If we cut out Amato, his support base dwindles that much more. Maybe he will feel isolated and alone and finally leave after this season? Maybe he won't even be alive. At this point, however, we have to live with what he has done to us.
Can someone get me his extension when he does sign it? I'd love to break down his compensation and compare it to that of other coaches. We better not be paying this waste of space $2.5 Million again...
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I heard that Warchant banned a bunch of people last night… if you know them, welcome them to our community.
is that Seminole64 from the smackboard?
or an insult screenname?
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
His fanpage picture is of a slip that says "banned"
Not sure why I took the time to look that up.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
Add me to the list
I simply stated…Opportunity wasted??? Followed up with comments in regards to Chuck “The Suck” Amato telling a recruit he would see him and then ignoring him twice. That has to help recruiting in the future. Post deleted, and banhammer…..
I read all and any boards for a broad perspective of FSU related info. There are just too many on that board that slam you for stating the obvious.
Go Noles!!!
Welcome, '07
We’re NOT trying to make this into a bash warchant site. We are trying to provide a forum where people can have an open discussion on FSU athletics. Most here are diehards and I think a large majority consider what is happening in other programs and then compare those practices to our own. Hope you stick around.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I stumbled on this site a few months ago and read it daily. I finally decided to register and post today. Great site so far and I have enjoyed nearly all of the other posters comments. Very good info and as a lot have said most of the info the pay sites hint around about(true or hype), I have found the facts here by someone.
Thanks for all the info Uncensored- Keep doing what you’re doin!
Go Noles!!!
Also...
a certain site apparently (I can’t read, only heard this) wrote an article consisting of
- FSU offense improved
- Passing game lagging behind
- Generic set of passing numbers compared to the passing numbers of past seasons, without regard for the new clock rules or the number of attempts
- Comment from Player A
- List of returning players
- Comment from player B
- Conclusion that future looks bright…
And some of you guys pay $100 a year for this…
Everyone who regularly posts on this site could write better than that. Even our fans who don’t speak English could throw that together.
I'm convinced Ponder's father is a source for said site.
It would explain Ponder’s immunity on the board that his father posts, as well as the consistently optimistic conveyance of him as a player.
On Bowden and FSU: It’s not all about football. It’s about the financial and psychological well-being of the university. It’s about the opportunities 25,000 students and teachers will lose as the financial backing of the football team dwindles.
But most importantly, it’s about putting the interests of one man above all the teachers, all the students, all the employees, all the former players, all the former coaches.
It’s about letting Bobby perpetuate this “Blood is thicker than water” stigma. It’s about funneling everyone’s ambitions and hopes for this institution, academically and athletically, through his filter.
It’s about the old guard that retain a holier-than-though ethos when they see other programs do whatever they can to win (and thus do well by the university by which they’re employed). We’re different. We’re FSU. We don’t fire coaches when they aren’t performing at a high level. Instead, we wait until boosters force them out. We don’t hire coaches based on merit and passion. Instead, we hire coaches based on their connections to the Bowden family.
I'm not as down on Ponder as you are...
but I’d feel ashamed to write an article like that. What makes people read it, the quotes? It’s pure generic coach speak.
Look at these fake quotes:
Christian Ponder: “You can feel the offense coming together. Getting the extra bowl practices really helped. We should grow a lot as an offense in the offseason”
Big Chief
I’m not sure if I this can be posted here b/c it was a part of a message board post from a pay site, so Uncensored if you have to delete this go ahead. But…… It gives me hope. It was posted by some random guy who rarely posts, in regards to coaching changes. Good to hear we actually have big boosters that have a decent football IQ.
If any changes are to be made Jimbo needs the authority to start putting his staff in place. Big Chiefs coming to town this weekend to discuss this with TK. First TK must agree with Big Chiefs and then Bobby has to be agreeable. If changes occur depends on the pow wow this weekend. Offensive staff is pretty much Jimbo’s guys. Defense is still old guard and Bobby’s guys. If big chiefs are successful we’ll see changes, if not we’ll see far less $ contributed in the near future.
This dysfunctional coaching hiarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
..
I need my head examined. Do any boosters, read this site is what i meant. ( 3rd times a charm )
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. Many. In fact, we've been asked to come speak at a few booster club functions.
If you are interested in having us come talk, contact your local booster club.
nice
I wasn’t aware. I’m guessing the boosters are the main source of income towards the salaries of the football coaches. So if they all united , they’d have more power in the decision making process for football than they realize? Or do they already know this?
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care if Bobby is agreeable.
I hope he DOESN’T like what comes out of the meeting (should it happen).
How long do we have to continue to let him keep his thumb on us?
Here’s an article from two years ago predicated on complaints from some of our smart boosters. We need more of noise from these guys.
This dysfunctional coaching hiarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2635717
This dysfunctional coaching hiarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
brilliant quote
“This is a real tough business. It boils down to one of two things: It’s either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses.”
And another thing...
This is exactly what needs to happen regarding the purse strings.
Like even says in a post below, the only thing Bowden has been good for in the last 15 years is fundraising. Well it looks like maybe he can’t even do that anymore. Why keep him?
I generally agree with your statements but I don’t think you can say Bowden is the worst coach in football. He still guided, using the term loosely, his team to a 9-4 record. Charlie Weiss might be a worse coach. Sometimes not doing anything is the best thing. For years Bowden has basically been a fund raiser while letting his coaches do the coaching (can you imagine Mickey making the fun raising tour?) and that’s worked for him. Different coaches coach different ways.
Having said that, it’s painfully obvious his time is up. I want him gone more than ever but people keep giving the school money so the school sees it prudent for him to stay.
I agree he hasn’t done a good job but I wouldn’t call him the worst coach in college football. He hasn’t even had a loosing record.
He doesn't DO anything.
Is there anyone you wouldn’t rather have?
Weiss would get another job in an instant. Nobody would hire Bowden.
Dave Wannstadt and Ty Willingham off the top of my head
I’m not saying he’s great or a good coach, like I said I don’t want him back, but I don’t think you can say he’s the worst coach in football. The records and stats don’t support that.
He does fund raise which is something. That’s a weak arguement but it seems that he’s better off just getting out of the way at this point. Plus it’s something that Andrews and Fisher don’t need to focus on.
He is definitely in the bad categorie for the last several years.
I agree with the thought that our recent turn-around has come from Jimbo, Tricket and the defense not totally stagnating yet.
The other side of the arguement could be: “you pin all the blame on Bowden, since he is the HC and ultimately repsonsible for what goes on, but give him no credit” – From what I’ve heard, Bowden didn’t do much to get Jimbo in and we probably would still have Jeff if it wasn’t for influences outside of Bowden.
They key distinction is "worst coach in college football and not ever, as long at that line is clearing drawn I have no quarrels.
"Unless a grain of wheat is buried in the ground, dead to the world, it is never any more than a grain of wheat. But if it is buried, it sprouts and reproduces itself many times over. In the same way, anyone who holds on to life just as it is destroys that life. But if you let it go, reckless in your love, you'll have it forever, real and eternal. If any of you wants to serve me, then follow me"
ps- Im still working on the drafted piece from the discussion last night Uncensored, FYI.
"Unless a grain of wheat is buried in the ground, dead to the world, it is never any more than a grain of wheat. But if it is buried, it sprouts and reproduces itself many times over. In the same way, anyone who holds on to life just as it is destroys that life. But if you let it go, reckless in your love, you'll have it forever, real and eternal. If any of you wants to serve me, then follow me"
I expect you to destroy the piece.
I cobbled it together too quickly and in anger. Look forward to it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence and taking an interest.
"I am the Real Vine and my Father is the Farmer. He cuts off every branch of me that doesn't bear grapes. And every branch that is grape-bearing he prunes back so it will bear even more"
The records and stats don’t support that.
I think we differ on how much credit to give him for that record. Wandstedt is a respected defensive mind from his days with the Cowboys and Dolphins, that much I know.
He does fund raise which is something. That’s a weak arguement but it seems that he’s better off just getting out of the way at this point. Plus it’s something that Andrews and Fisher don’t need to focus on.
Okay, but let’s reverse it. If we had wandstedt, he could do a decent job fund raising (not Bowden’s level). He’d also do the head coaching duties.
Jimbo, Trickett, Dawsey, and Coley are stretched too thin right now, because Mickey, Amato, Allen, and Carter aren’t coaching at a level suitable for a major D1 school and Bowden isn’t doing anything.
Good coaches can only accomplish so much.
I guess I look at it as a bottom line business. His record over the past few year has been better than the others. The fact that he has achieved that would lend one to believe he is a better coach. I agree that he has placed undue stress on others and I don’t mean to say he is a good coach at this point (I don’t believe that at all) but rather than it could be worse.
I’m a Dolphin fan, trust me when I say that Wandstedt is not a good head coach. The fact that Pitt has been worse than FSU in the time that Wandstadt has been there would assist in proving that.
Bowden has never been a coach to coach up the players but rather coach up the coaches. Whether it’s been his deicision or not to bring on this coaching staff he’s been able to get along with his coaches and let them do what they are best at and should be commended for that, just not a whole lot as the team is mediocre at best.
I'm not arguing that dave is a good coach
You need to consider the available resources, however, and in that regard I can’t seriously make the agrument that Bowden is on equal footing to Wandstedt.
Ive been banned from warchant
This past year for bashing chucky. They since reinstated me, but I really have no use for that site anymore since I found this one.
lol
freedom of speech , need not apply at warchant?
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Where's Curtain Jerker when you need him?
As far as I can tell, there are four specific ways a professional wrestler can turn heel.
1) – Failing to meet one’s obligations in a tag team match, thereby costing his team the win and letting his partner get beat up.
2) – Attacking a good guy/woman/harmless person during some sort of in-ring celebration.
3) – Cut a promo attacking the fans and saying that it was all about you and nothing about the fans.
4) – Kissing up to Vince McMahon (the boss).
Let’s see, Bobby doesn’t do his job coaching and his loyalty to Jeff has cost us many games.
He already blames the fans and the media for everything that is wrong, treats us like garbage and idiots, and acts like we’re lucky to have his old arse staggering up and down the sidelines.
He and TK are tighter than a weave at FAMU homecoming.
I guess all we need is for him to hit Jimbo from behind with a chair next year after the Maine win and we’ve got ourselves the greatest wrestling heel ever as head football coach.
We can call him Hollywood Bobby Bowden.
How do we get constructive?
What can we do to change things? My eyes are finally wide open after our stadium seemed more full of Gator fans than us, but I think the complaining about Bowden is getting redundant. I don’t think that a full cry from the fans for him to be released would change anything. Does our program simply need to bottom out before we can rebuild?
Not neccessarily. Jimbo legitamately looking elsewhere, I believe his other forays were his agent doing his job, should go a long way. Also lack of booster contribution could do the job. Of course the program bottoming out would help. I also believe that Andrews leaving would severely dent Bowden’s desire to return but Mickey isn’t swayed by outside forces in the least so I’m not sure how much of an affect you could have on him.
This is all we can do
The Bourgeoisie of FSU football have exemplified their apathy regarding our state of affairs. They’re fans of Bowden, not FSU.
This chatter is not useless. It is not done in vain. It serves a purpose. It constructs the critical mass that will be needed to topple a mountain of incompetence and negligence.
Just keep expressing your displeasure. Email people. Post your thoughts here. Post your thoughts there. Don’t allow yourself to be filtered.
Bit of a straw man's argument
I am for Bowden BECAUSE he is FSU’s coach and out of loyalty/respect for what he has done for the program.
Here is the question then...
Are you content with mediocrity while UF plays for national championships? Or maybe Are you happy with continually just missing out on the “great privilege” of playing for an ACC championship.
This year was the straw the broke the camels back if you will; I have defended him over and over, its time for him to go. He has grown selfish. I understand, truly I do. How many times has he said there is only one big step left after he stops coaching, but we should not all be held hostage because he needs something to do during the day.
Content? ... no
No UF chaps my arse. And you know the fans are only going to be worse now.
However I’m an optimist and think we are on the upswing now. 9-4! After the last couple of years I’m glad to see some improvement.
The record is better...
but I think it masks some of the crudely patched cracks.
We’re losing 7 of 11 defensive starters of a defense that was good but not great.
Could we have peaked? Next year’s schedule is even tougher.
how long does the improvement continue?
If we lose Jimbo and Trick, that all goes away.
Starters sure ... but how good were they?
EB will be missed but some of the others eh … just to throw a few names out: Myron Rolle, MRG, Tony Carter
These guys never quite matured to the level I wanted them to. You can blame the coaches for this and I agree they are not immune however we did have some good players as well EB, P Rob, Moffett, …
So in short I’m not convinced our defense will be that bad nect year assuming we can shore up the db positions
I never have agreed with this logic.
USF fans were trying to use it the other day on Warchant I think….
If Tony Carter, MRG, and Myron Rolle were THAT terrible, why do we think the guys who couldn’t beat them on the depth chart will suddenly be such an improvement next year? When was the last time, since the departure of Kevin Steele, you saw that much improvement in a defensive player in the course of 1 off season?
I didn't say they were terrible ... just good
And we know what good is the enemy of ;)
I love the optimism.
no sarcasm…I sincerely wish I shared it.
i agree
with this statement
no big losses their IMO. Brown is a huge loss. Carter/myron can be replaced easy
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Rolle was a world beater
but he was no slouch either.
Who else is going to be the last guy to the pile? All kidding aside, I am blinded by the Rhodes scholarship. Everytime I watched a game, and got to hear about that instead of the cheating… eternally grateful. So I cant be objective about him.
thanks for the smile
“Who else is going to be the last guy to the pile?”
Love Myron for all the good things hes done not the least of which is the good press hes brought us. But an elite football player he is not.
EB will be missed but some of the others eh … just to throw a few names out: Myron Rolle, MRG, Tony Carter
This depends on your evaluation method.
If you evaluate them compared to other players on good teams across a national scale… not that good.
If you evaluate them against their replacements… well, you see what I am getting at.
I do
And I’m hoping the dropoff won’t be that much OR could be better.
The D seemed to do pretty well against Wake. Weren’t a good portion of our starters missing then?
Do you consider what he has done TO the program as well as what he has done for?
We can say he’s one of the best coaches ever and still assert that he’s the worst current coach.
Agree with the premise
But not the sentiment. From what I understand he and JoePa aren’t much different from each other these days.
Look, Uncensored I read every post and every comment on here and love it. However the Boby bashing on every post does start to wear one down after a while.
2 more years.
Fair enough. I am working on some more strategy related stuff.
It will give us all some hope as to what might happen once we do get changes.
beleive it or not
I look forward to it!
I’m not lobbying for Bobby stay around … I just don’t want to be part of the crowd that rides one of the greatest coaches in CFB history out of town.
Plus TN invites differing oppinions and I always liked being the devil’s advocate.
The one blessing from last night...
…is that we now have every justification to ask Coach Bowden to step down. We are light years away from our principal rival.
I, for one, appreciate the fact that you have a different opinion from me.
Groupthink is a terrible thing. I just think we happen to be two sides of the same coin.
I just don't want to be argumentative and potentially run somebody away from the site just because we disagree.
I haven’t seen wolfbird in weeks.
heck
I feel comfortable here because of just that. If I didnt feel that I could post whatever I was thinking in a reasonable way, I would not have registered.
"However the Boby bashing on every post does start to wear one down after a while."
C’mon now. Really?
This space reserved.
It true for me
But I still come here diligently … every day … from work … and home … and sometimes on my cell :)
No worries. I wasn't even going to come back and write anything.
But I’d been waiting to use that on someone. Score.
I got banned from Warchant
Right as my previous suspension was up 3 days ago lol. All I posted was that I didn’t care anymore either way, as it was a pointless endeavor until either Meyer leaves UF or Bowden retires, more likely both.
"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 9, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions
Don't know and to be honest, don't care
Just stopped by to see the Omega-class meltdown. That and I never held a subscription there so no $ lost to me.
"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 9, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Warchant
This is not meant disrespectfully but I do have a question, why do the readers of this site still have Warchant subscriptions? It’s like living in mother Russia during the Cold War, i.e. all you get is positive propaganda and nothing of any real substance. Please quit buying into the machine.
Maybe...
I’ve never had a subscription to the pay sites, but I can see why people would keep it. There are positives and negatives to everything. It’s not bad to have more information, even if sometimes that can be fluff information. Plus, I’m sure there are friendships that are forged from the message boards that people may not leave.
Uncensored has said in the past, and I agree, that each FSU site has it’s place in the internet world (Well, except maybe one of them. Honestly, how does that site keep going? I bet it won’t after someone graduates.(
Ripping the 'paysites'
is getting kind of old to be honest. I also have never had a subscription. If you don’t like it, then fine, just come and enjoy the conversation here.
True, but UNF some of these guys just joined us after getting their vacation from over there.
Let’s let them vent for a little while as they begin to see the light ;-)
i feel foolish
I read warchant for the last few years and believed everything they had to say
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Warchant....wow
i have gotten more recruiting news from this site in 5 mins then I did paying for warchant on their recruiting board.
A agree with you 64...
I’ve been privvy to read Warchant’s premium board from time to time and it’s nothing special. This site offers MUCH more content without all the “sunshine and smiles”.
Man I feel lucky Bowden still likes his job… WHO’S WITH ME?
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
"It is Nice!" - Borat
Thanks :)
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
With all that said....
I would still LOVE to have the tee-time with Bobby. I still think he is a quality human being, just too old for this job. This job is being dominated by coaches who are willing to sleep in the office now. Bobby is asleep by 9pm while all the other coaches are just sitting down for pizza in their office.
I would throw Les Miles into the category of terrible coach, however Les does one thing really well…..he surrounds himself with a talented coaching staff (all around). However, with the classes they have had, the dominance of recruiting in Louisiana and Miss LSU has had, they should have been competiting this year. I would say by in large their National Championship run was based largely off of luck (let me explain). They had some of the best players in the nation. I always think of ‘luck’ as preparation meeting opportunity. In his case, talent meeting opportunity. With the amount of ‘gutsy’ calls he made and got away with, it amazed me that they were consistently achieving wins. I think Miles is an inept coach as well, but again surrounds himself with people who put in the time and are extremely intelligent.
Could be argued the same
about Jim Tressel (who I also think is a real quality guy). They are ALWAYS in the top 3 in recruiting, yet they can’t put it all together. I know some of you are high on Pryor, I am not. We’ll see if he can turn his ‘potential’ into a national championship….my guess: NO.
Terrell
Would make a better WR or Running Back IMO. He can’t pass very well.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
I'm ok with teams using
quarterbacks who aren’t polished passers. But let’s call it what it is. Nebraska made a living in the 90’s with this.
I think it works in college extremely well
You just don’t have the quality players on defense that the NFL offers
Pryor is the closest thing to Vince Young since Vince Young.
Not because he’s black either (I hate it when players are compared just because of their skin color).
We'll see
Young polished his passing by his junior year. Also, the offense in Texas was designed to be pass first if i’m not mistaken. I don’t think Tressel gets that with Pryor (if he wants to develop him into a Young). It is going to be a couple of years, but I just don’t see the talent when I watch him play (outside of his running abilities). I know I am in the minority here, I don’t have a lot to back this up, I just don’t think he has “it.”
I wouldn't. Bobby's true character seeped through when the fans called for Jeff Bowden's job. He put his blood before his job, blamed the fans for all the problems and lack of progress.
I can get folksy anecdotes from my own older relatives. Bobby’s actions the last 7 years have eroded any residue of respect I had for him.
Fair enough
I just disagree. I think he put himself in a terrible situation, but if you DON’T put your family ahead of fans, then I loose all respect for you. Again, he put himself in the situation, but I would have defended my family to the nth degree as well.
Agreed... I wouldn't have liked it if he had thrown his son under the bus.
But he could have demoted him back to WR coach in 2004 and there would have been no lasting ill will from the fans.
From what I understand he was a decent WR coach too.
"I am the Real Vine and my Father is the Farmer. He cuts off every branch of me that doesn't bear grapes. And every branch that is grape-bearing he prunes back so it will bear even more"
True
I think Jeff should have had more respect for his father and stepped down earlier. Just my own opin. though.
I think Bobby should have paid Jeff the $350k.
I mean, if he was worried about his son’s well being, why ask someone else to boot the tab?
Bowden takes absolutely no accountability. Ever.
He’s thrown fans under the bus, players and coaches. He fired everyone on offense just to save Jeff’s job.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Or Bowden should have had more respect for the institution that gave his great-great-grandchildren lives of luxury and did what was best for the program.
Firing his son should not be equated to killing him. There is a reason that nepotism laws exist and Bowden did his best to circumvent them in hiring Jeff. Familial ties clouded his judgement and corroded his sense of efficiency and objective analysis.
Once he fired his son, or anyone else immersed in the greater Bowden ilk (Mickey, Chuck, McHale, Jody, etc) it wouldn’t and didn’t mean he would have to cut off all contact with them. It wouldn’t have meant that he didn’t love them.
I completely agree
Bowden put himself in an awful situation. However what kind of man are you if you don’t defend your family? Of course he is going to do that. Demoting him, Jeff resigning (he can get a job at a smaller school and still earn a living, DAA, D2, D3, highschool) would have been the best thing to do, but not to defend him and just flat out fire him is a messy situation when you deal with family.
I was all about Papa sticking up for Jeffy. Regardless of Right or Wrong, Stupid, detremential to the program, career killer, etc. It was the ‘right’ thing to do.
I'd argue NOT hiring them would be putting them in front of the fans.
Not putting that pressure on them. Not giving them an untenable position. Not subhecting them to that type of scrutiny.
The fact is this: the Jimmy Heggins hire alerted the college football coaching world that FSU was starting to slide. People looked around and said “really, heggins??” Bowden couldn’t place his son anywhere else as an OC after the Heggins hire. Other programs lost respect for him.
Then Richt left.
tress
is awful in game coaching. There’s no way they should have lost to texas. Way too conservative on offense. And he left their most talented player uninvolved on 12 plays or so. By putting in that clown boeckman
by Cee on Jan 9, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
So after this year if BB stays then FSU has to pay Jimbo morny right.
BB needs to get off the crackpipe and look at what his pride is doing to his leg. This is BS. How can the boosters and the school just give him money like this when he hasnt done a damn thing. He talk to the kids every now and then. At least Jo pa is on the field braking hip trying to show his kids something. BB is just being selfish because he wants to go out over Jo pa but hears the news PSU will win more games next year than FSU will. Thats the truth. When we go to BYU/USF/TCU??? we could be in some trouble because they have good Def too. Mabye Jimbo should have went to try to interview with Auburn for the HC to show the boosters and school that if they realy want him that bad then move BB and co out.
No, unfortunately the buy-out clause isn't set until after the 2010 season.
It won’t last that long, though. If FSU isn’t run by Jimbo fisher after 09, I’d guarantee that he wouldn’t be here.
I think
We are going to lose Jimbo Fisher and Rick Trickett before all is said and done.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Honestly I'd put favorable odds on us losing Trickett during the Coaches convention soon
Fisher may plum leave if that debacle were to occur, as well.
I don't know that he would leave this year.
I’m not sure if he wants to move Clint just before his senior year as starting QB of the defending State champions.
Just my guess though, I don’t really know for sure.
Its real hard to coach
RBs apparently. If I remember correctly, I read and agreed that the RB coach should be a place to stash a mediocre coach who is a recruiting fiend.
“Run through the hole” cant take that many hours.
And Carter still hasn't passed the recruiting test
Yet Bobby found good reason to hire him, and still finds good reason to retain him.
Ncensored
Anyone who does not pass the test must wait 30 days before retaking the test.
http://www.msubillings.edu/BusinessFaculty/Harris/NCAA/NCAA_Test_Info.htm
Can this be true? If so, wow.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
If I had to choose between them....
Give me Trickett any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
He made the comment shortly before leaving WVU that he won’t be taken for granted.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
I had heard...
that Trickett should be taken care of soon. It is a huge priority apparently. I just cant fathom a situation where the higher ups arent aware of how important the man is to the rebuilding process.
To be fair Spetman has said that he deals with all contracts after the bowl season. As much as we all like Trickett it wouldn’t be a good idea to deal with him any differently. In the future that could come back and bite the school
Agreed
The problem isn’t Spetman’s general method. I think he needed to be a little more gracious during the season and stress that we like Trickett. Rick needed his ego stroked a bit there after the NC State and BC games.
The problem is that we’re treating all of our coaches as equals when they are not equal in ability level.
How many coaches would you say
that we have on our staff that are ELITE position coaches, coordinators, etc. (Elite as in currently ELITE).
Elite as in...
“would be hired for a comparable position (same spot, another prestigious program, same compensation)”…
or
“considered a seriously hot prospect in the coaching world”
Jimbo could easily find another job as an OC at a top 20 school
Trickett is considered elite for what he does, but some coaches don’t like his scheme
Dawsey- young, good, and he helps coaches say “hey, I hire minorities”
Coley- young, energetic, and hispanic.
None of those guys would have any trouble finding similar positions as a similarly situated university for similar compensation.
I think we should keep the listed guys
then get a DC. The DC should decide whether to keep O’Dell.
We’ve had serious negative recruiting happen against us when we let our program be devoid of minority coaches.
If DC wants ODell, he stays. If he doesn’t, then ODell goes, but the DC must know we need someone to recruit like ODell recruiter at his pinnacle.
Interesting point....
however I am always against getting minority candidates just to tout that we have a minority candidate. I would rather take a small hit in recruiting, and not develop and coach the players that we do get well then to get one or two more players and watch us waste a scholarship on them. I am all about qualified minority coaches though. I just want the best available.
I can't argue with that
I can only wonder how much TK is involved in any of this. My gut says a lot. [frowney face]
you forgot that we dont actually treat them all as equals...
We try to, but I doubt Trickett being as incompetent as Amato would allow him to keep his job. Or maybe if Rick was the only coach to not pass a recruiting test. Maybe its just me though.
And agreed with Uncensored.
I really think the issue is a bit exaggerated (I’ve been hoping at least), and I criticized another site when I thought they were sensationalizing it. Problem is Spetman and now Bowden’s mouth. Show the man some respect! He’s your top assistant! How does no one at FSU have the ability to kiss anyone’s a** other than Bobby’s?
I know I’m simplifying it a bit. If the clowns around me were making what they’re making, there’d definitely be problems after I saw how business operates two years into this bait-and-switch deal that my buddy and I bit on. But obviously I think a deal gets done. It’s probably not necessary for me to state that I think FSU has some major PR issues too.
I am reading the comments on the ESPN article...
regarding BB signing an extension. There are people who really dont care about the program over Bobby. Its craziness.
Trickett's Contract (A team is coming for him)
I just got a text that the zooker is coming after tricket hard now because they have an opening. Let’s hope FSU takes money away from BB and give it to a coach that actually coaches.
That would really hurt us
We do need to hit rock bottom, however, and we might not be able to do it without losing Trick and Jimbo.
RE:
“Not only does UF have maybe the best coach in college football history (in terms of "I wouldn’t take anyone over him in his prime”), but we have the worst. head coach in major college football. "
I’m not saying Meyer’s not a good coach but I will be very curious to see how he does without Tebow/Harvin. Perhaps 2 of the best players in CFB.
… And worst coach? Really?
Yes, Really
the worst coaches is one that doesn’t coach. That fits the description pretty well to me.
If we lose Trick
to Zook of all people….
I might just go on a two year hiatus, focusing solely on school. I’ve had heart burn since last night, I wont subject myself to this for a guy who couldnt care less about where I spent the best years of my life.
haha..
I graduated undergrad already.
Law school starts back up on Monday.
my Tennessee waltz
forever ingrained in my memory. Buying a thirsty moose card, drinkin at 10 in the morn until 8 for a night game. Good times for all.
Bowden as "untouchable"
This situation feels MUCH different to me than it did just a couple years ago.
I have little tolerance for those who try to diminish Bowden’s role in building this program — folks who chalk it all up to geography or lucky timing with UF and UM NCAA woes are woefully uninformed, in my view.
Bowden built Florida State football into a national power …. end of story.
BUT, I think there is been quite a bit of movement within Seminole nation on the prospect of Bowden leaving not of his own volition. Even just 2 or 3 years ago, there were many voices among big-time boosters and faithful supporters who would have said: “He built the program, he gets to leave on his own terms.”
Now, however, even from grey hairs — FSU supporters who remember the woes of the 60s and early 70s, then saw the asecendancy of the 80s and 90s and have now seen the precipitous decline and all the trapping of our dysfunctional command structure — even for them there comes stony silence.
At some point, Bowden crossed a precipice, from someone who deserved to go out on his own terms, to someone who abused that priviledge. Let’s be honest: people who say the program is bigger than one person weren’t saying that very loud in the 1990s. Rightly or wrongly, Bowden WAS the program.
But now, even his staunchest supporters — and not too long ago I would have claimed the label happily — are faced with this truth: He’s no longer an effective leader and this sad truth outweighs even the acknowledgement that we might have never reached the level to which we have now DROPPED without his early-in-life leadership.
I don’t know, that all feels like a very verbose way of saying: If the leadership of the university feels like Bowden is untouchable — which not too many years ago I would have argued he was — it might be a good time to check the pulse of Seminole nation.
by Fsued on Jan 9, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Do these grey hairs that don't consider him untouchable now outnumber (in terms aggregate financial contributions) those who are still fans of Bowden before FSU?
It’s all about the dollar, and if the biggest $$ booster still sees this as BBU and not FSU, none of this change of the tide talk matters.
Well, that's the question...
my hypothesis is that the grey hairs — while not actively working for BB’s ouster — will remain silent while younger money does just that.
On the other hand, you’ve got to understand how Bowden worked the booster system in the early years. He’s played golf with more boosters than you could possibly imagine. He worked those chicken dinner circuits like a maniac — probably because he actually enjoyed all that fraternization.
So, to argue against myself, those might be bonds that are hard to break. Still, my sense in talking with folks my Dad’s age is that there would be little resistance to his removal — they won’t lead the charge, but they won’t put up a fight either. I freely admit, though, that I could be dead wrong on this — my sample size is small.
by Fsued on Jan 9, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Highly unethical.
That Bowden would stand idly by and allow his influence with the boosters to work negatively against the program. He should have a problem with people being fans of Bobby Bowden instead of fans of FSU. He should be able to look at himself objectively and admit that he isn’t the solution to the problem that is FSU football now, 5 years ago, 5 years from now.
This is my problem with Bobby Bowden. He hides behind whimsy, folksy charm and an old guard of influence and smugly decrees, “Well, I don’t really know if I’ll play, I’ll have to call TK and tell him if I will or not”. To be that dismissive of your employer and that confident in your security despite all evidence that you shouldn’t is not right and not fair.
Bobby Bowden, to me, now seems to carry around with him his two MNCs, his statue, his glass window, his plaque adorning the field. Whenever someone questions his work ethic, his worth, his style, he simply holds these up and says, “What now.”
An ethical person would look at the situation for those around him. For the FSU students that have started their 4th year next year with a team that has accumulated a combined record of 23-16.
There are 5 years worth of FSU graduates (roughly 60,000) graduates if you assume a 2/3rds graduation rate, that have NEVER seen FSU beat UF. That have NEVER seen FSU lose less than 5 losses per season.
Where is the champion for their cries? Certainly, those who choose to instead admire the past in spite of the future have theirs, Herr Bowden.
Are their concerns simply not as pressing, important as those who are older who remember a better time for FSU?
Sorry, Ed. I appreciate the view you bring, but those are my beliefs. As are, you have priorly mentioned, the circumstantial angle to FSU’s ascent.
I dont think you
are disagreeing with him. Maybe I am just reading each post incorrectly.
fair enough
you would know better then me. I enjoyed reading both posts, so keep it up as far as Im concerned. :)
I don't disagree ...
…. with a thing you’ve written in this post, other than the notion that it is somehow at odds with what I wrote.
I am contacting the boosters to get a deal for TNation readers.
First, however, I need to know if you are in fact a current booster (everyone)
cant sleep...
I am not a current booster, no job…
But I want to be one. I have grand aspirations of parking my RV in the lot for every home game like my townie friends haha.
Exactly, I graduated this fall
And in my 3 years, throwing out the 2006 game, we might as well have been UCF or USF playing UF. You want to know why the student section doesn’t sell out anymore? Because I was in 7th grade when Weinke won the Heisman and we played Oklahoma in the national title game. Hell for incoming freshmen, we might as well be USF or UCF from a football standpoint. I think Bowden’s final season should have been 2003. Dramatic win over UF, conference title, etc.
"I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."-Bill Hicks
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 9, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Also, how much longer can we sustain?
Each additional year we become less and less FSU and instead “fsu”. This is only aggravated by unprecedented success of UF and Meyer.
Appreciated as always, Fsued
I spoke with a reporter from today’s events. He said the reporters were looking at each other today during the press conference and just sort of thinking “wow, really? We showed up for this?”
At some point, Bowden crossed a precipice, from someone who deserved to go out on his own terms, to someone who abused that priviledge.
When did you finally turn?
Uncensored
that fsu ed post has to be stickied. BRILLIANT!
When did I turn?
You know, I’m not even sure I know and I think that’s kind of the point, now that I think about it. Dysfunction usually creeps like ivy — you can’t see it until you step back and take note of where it was the month before.
Another way of answer that is: When did Bowden become a bitter man who viewed the job as an entitlement, not at-will employment? I don’t know the answer to that from a “when” standpoint, but I certainly accep the premise of the question.
For anyone keeping score...
…rainbow offense for me. Miami 13, FSU 10. I had been suspecting something was up (maybe to some of you I was early, maybe to some of you I was late), but that’s when I realized beyond the shadow of a doubt what was going on. I mention this because I’m interested (no more Bowden bashing today – yeah, right), when did you know the old man had to go? And I mean, know! No points for beating me on timing. I’m genuinely curious. And we all knew Jeff in ‘04, I’m talking about Jeff’s not enough, it’s bigger than Jeff. I know not everyone will respond.
Closest I can say
is this season. Before this season, I was all about let him leave when he wants. Maybe it was when I realized we might lose some important coaches. Maybe it was when I listened to another speech that lacked any thoughts other then “we were right there.” Maybe it was after the GT game when we were getting obliterated, but the last second loss was just “bad luck” This season was the last straw for me.
"BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!"
Maybe next year when UF secures their first undefeated season winning a wire-to-wire back-to-back NC, complete with a 60-14 trouncing of FSU in front of their fans, the pulse will awaken. Nope. Would have happened by now. I’ve lost faith in the bunch.
We need an edit to the post. Nee to edit the BB didn't know in his presser:
He said that have several recruits coming in this weekend, nope, just one – Orson Charles.
You'll have to forgive me, but I've got a little more Bowden bashing in my system.
(Yes I know it is getting old, I agree… but I’m ticked right now).
" I only watched about a quarter and a half before I fell asleep. I think the score was 7-7. I tried to watch it; I just don’t stay up late."
WHAT THE CRAP?!! No words…. there are simply no words to describe how ticked off I am at the fact that we pay a man 2.5 million dollars to go to sleep before 9:15. I bet half the coaches in the SEC don’t leave their offices before that time on an average day!!!
ARGH!!!
wow.
you are killin me Matt. I did not need to read that.
But wait, there's more...
Q: The school recently announced that you will be playing South Florida next year. Could you talk about that game and the USF program?
A: Well, we needed a game and we called just about everybody in the country. We’ve called everybody in Florida. And South Florida was the only one that could work it out. A lot of times schools would like to do it, but they can’t work it out on their schedules. I think the big plus is this: They’ll fill the stadium. We bring in Western Carolina, we bring in Chattanooga, and we can’t fill our stadium. We can’t pay the bills like you’d like.
Because of what YOU let us become, Bobby, we can’t fill our stadium when freaking Florida comes to town anymore.
One of my favorite sites on the internet used to be firejoemorgan.com
It was a baseball blog from a sabrematrician’s point of view and one of the writers happened to be a lead writer for The Office. So it combined humor with a serious discussion of sports. They would periodically take an article written by some over-hyped sports writer and make fun of it line by line. I almost feel like doing that with this press conference but I think it might be too painful.
If I can find another source for the PC besides Warchant, I will.
I don’t want to make them less likely to write free stories. Nor do I want to copy their information.
Man I hope
we dont lose Trickett. Thats the last thing we need is to start over on the o line.
shoot
Im gonna re-read em to make sure Im not breaking the rules lol.
You're fine so far.
Basically no profanity (safe for work) and don’t post premium content from paysites. Today’s a different kinda day for the site, we don’t usually just go off, I’m about to put the brakes on myself, it will probably settle down a bit soon, but Bud seemed okay with it. It’s been that kinda day. Year. Decade. Also, don’t post a photoshopped picture of Tim Tebow making out with Riley Cooper. Or geniune. (Unless you really have to.)
Oh man, just wait until the NCAA. I can guarantee you Uncensored and MattD are saving their best stuff.
It isn't hard for me to bash Bowden.
Is it hard for anyone else to bash Mickey? The man has brought so much to FSU and is all class. Feels hard for me.
It has to be done however.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
It actually is.
It’s much easier for me to bash Bowden and Chuck than it is Mickey, because I don’t think Mickey is blatently holding us hostage and rubbing his untouchability in our face like the other two are.
I think Mickey still has the potential to be effective, when he wants to. The first half scheme against Miami was like nothing we’ve done in quite some time.
This feels like treason, and I will get jumped all over for it. I will say it anyway.
If Mickey Andrews was head coach from 1987-2000, we would have 6 (possibly more) national championships right now.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Those are Terrell Buckley's and a lot of other former players' thoughts, as well.
As documented by Sports Illustrated.
Here is the quote by Buckley.
"Last week former Seminole cornerback Terrell Buckley, now a Green Bay Packer rookie, told the Tallahassee Democrat that Bowden had cost Florida State at least one national title. “If [defensive coordinator] Mickey Andrews or [receivers coach] John Eason were head coach, I’d have three rings," said Buckley. "We had the talent to win the national championship." Buckley also told the Democrat that many current and former Seminoles share his sentiments.”
http://http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1004315/index.htm
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
I just don't know that Mickey has the personality that would have brought in that level of talent had he been head coach.
I just don’t know about it. Maybe, maybe not. I’m not so angry with current Bowden that I can’t recognize his role in our past success.
Buckley would probably be taking mention of the fact that Bowden seemed to coach scared in big games.
I don’t think that would have been a problem under Mickey.
In no way am I underscoring Bowden’s effect on this program.
There would not be a Tomahawk Nation without Bowden.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
I agree with both the sentiment and the criticism of Bowden.
Don’t know that Mickey was the answer though.
Make Mickey the DC under a revolving door of good recruiting and motivating head coaches like at Miami, and I agree 95% (I’m a statistician, 95 is a force of habit).
we'll have to respectfully disagree
We both would be banned from WC months ago, LOL.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
OK, I think everyone is on the same page. What next?
It’s getting to the point where we are all rehasing the same concerns and evaluations over and over. I think we all pretty much are in agreement that Bowden is the Cousin Eddie who has over-welcomed his stay and can only do more damage. Soo…..
What next? What can we do? I think our noise should not be directed at Bowden any more, but it should be geared toward the administration. Barking at Bowden is useless.
How can we even depend on our administration going forward, even post-Bowden? If incompetance is showing now, what’s to say we won’t see it down the road from this same administration?
This dysfunctional coaching hiarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
Yeah, that's kinda the problem too.
This is for someone a lot smarter (and with more money) than me.
I'm no TK fan, as evidenced by my fanpost,...
But if he hasn’t been forced out due to his poor leadership of the University as a whole, then his bungling of the athletic department is not going to get it done either.
I still have yet to find one positive thing his adminstration has done of its own accord besides taking a firm stance on the mascot issue (which may or may not bite us in future dealings with the NCAA).
good point
I just feel that Bobby is a separate situation. There is no easy way of replacing a legend. Look at Landry for example. Winning is the only thing that cures all ills.
Once he is gone, I think the program will be run like any other program. The days of JoePa and B.B. are history. That coach does not exist anymore. Once he is gone, we will be focused on winning and thats it. There will be no history to hang on to. I just fail to see how the administration could be so foolish in a different way.
I think fighting for the ousting of Bowden is simply tilting at windmills.
Which is why I personally focus my efforts on getting rid of Amato, Allen, and Carter (in descending order of preference). I think we can compete for ACC titles with better coaches at these three positions.
In order to compete for National titles, we will need a new head coach, but the administration as decided that National championships aren’t important to them.
The new hires MUST be Jimbo's
with Bowden’s reneging/sketchiness regarding transfer of power, how certain are we that would be the case?
Agreed!
I hope that Jimbo gets to bring his own guys in, if not this year then def next so as to ease the transistion.
Curiosity here
How do you guys feel about the 400 win mark? FSU could be one of only 2 schools to do it. Don’t you think that would help us in recruiting?
Same with the alltime winningest coach.
I guess what I’m going for is IF we could get 1 or both of those in the next 2 years would it be worth hanging on to Bobby then?
Nope.
I don’t think anyone goes to Alabama to play for Bear Bryant.
The entire concept is dated to me, if this ever made sense at all. Kids don’t care. Not the guys we want. Seems to me like an idea created by… well, you can probably figure it out from here.
Let me clarify one thing: It would have been great if we could have pulled it off without destroying the program...
…but man, that “if.” It has little to do with recruiting. That’s a line they feed us. It would be a nice record to have, something to display in very big letters on a wall somewhere. Not at the cost we’re paying for it though.
What MattD just posted while I was typing this. Very well stated.
I also dont see Bobby passing JoePa.
He just got a 3 year extension. Even the inability to stand on the sidelines is forcing him out. He might actually “coach” until he dies.
Recruits do not care AT ALL.
I can’t stress enough how much they don’t care.
They care about getting to the NFL and seeing hot girls while they are here. Then education.
Yea
I dont see Bobby passing Joe Pa either. First of all Penn St plays in the Big 10, and I also think the record means more to Joe.
True
But imo Bobby is in better health than Joe Pa. I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he couldnt coach from the sidelines he would retire.
Sorry, that wasn't a productive post.
These guys talk each other into it. JoePa: “Bobby, they can’t force you out! You built that place! Get a luxury suite, you don’t even need a heatset! They’ll bring your prune juice right to you!” Lou Holtz: “Jhu fhdjkl fhru flkhi fhils fh sljdy fjdli.” You know?
2000: I think if Bobby ever got the point where he wasn’t winning 10 games a year he’d retire.
2001: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he wasn’t competing for ACC titles he’d retire.
2002: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he wasn’t involved in the daily operations of his football team he’d retire
2003: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he couldn’t run out onto the field with the team he’d retire.
2004: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he was passed by JoePa he’d retire.
2005: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he wasn’t winning 8 games a year he’d retire.
2006: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where people around the country laughed at his coaching ability he’d retire.
2007: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where we lost 5 in a row to Florida he’d retire.
2008: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where he couldn’t be on the sidelines he’d retire.
2009: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where we couldn’t stay within 70 points of UF he’d retire.
2010: I think if Bobby ever got to the point where the feeding tube wasn’t keeping his brain activity functioning, he’d retire.
by MattDNole on Jan 9, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
These are a few from last year but BB is now making 2.5 mil.
School
Coach
2007 Total
2007 Wins
Cost per win
Minnesota
Tim Brewster
$1,000,000
1
$1,000,000
Alabama
Nick Saban
$3,503,200
6
$583,867
Florida
Urban Meyer
$3,383,500
9
$375,944
Florida State
Bobby Bowden
$1,695,200
7
$242,171
Southern California
Pete Carroll
$2,794,656
10
$279,466
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 9, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nice post
In related news, Tim Brewster is long gone.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 9, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
Thats a good post Matt. Maybe I am wishful thinking I dont know.
Orson Charles
Anyone know how it works with football players? Someone just shows them around campus or something? If I see Orson Charles, I’m going to approach him and beg him to come to Florida State.
Yep
Reid ended up canceling his Bama visit after speaking with FSU….Whooooo
For the moment I foresee
us finishing with Orson Charles, Jarvis Byrd, Greg Reid, and if we miss on Straling – Phillip Thomas.
As long as Coley
is involved I truly believe we land Orson and we have no one to thank but Coley. Byrd is ours for the taking just offer, and Phillip Thomas would be a nole too if they show him love. I think Reid would be that 4th, giving us a class of 24 with the three greyshirts from last season. I think Stork will greyshit so really 23. We can manage that I would believe.
What needs to happen
is take Browns Scholly and give it to Louis Givens. He hits that top speed faster then any WR we have in my opinion. I expect big things from him next season. He’s earned it.
Practically...
Givens cant go anywhere else. he has no Leverage. We should not give him the scholarship, even if he has earned it.
We can’t take 24 guys— we’re having sanctions. 21 max. 22 if we get lucky.
Dang
I hope more greyshirts are in order because if it’s 21 we can only take one more and I would prefer Orson over Reid.
I meant 22 max 23 if we get lucky
I think we take 2 more kids.
Orson is about as close to a lock as FSU can pull right now (with a big name kid)
Then we go to Reid and if we don’t get him— Byrd
Reid and Charles
I honestly don’t know where to look for them or what they do on official visits. I went to Suwannee room this morning, and I didn’t see any big guys. I’m hoping they make an appearance at the Duke-FSU basketball game I’m going to. Otherwise, I guess I’m going to miss them. =/
Truthfully
I didn’t see him the last few days. I went to the stadium Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I told you guys I was going to try to talk to him on Wednesday, but he wasn’t there Wednesday or Thursday. My friend said he said Amato (who I see often) was there on Friday. Next time I see Amato, I’m going to polite but try to leave a pun that he needs to step up his game. I’ll ask him how Phillip Thomas is doing or something.
It is Kyle Long not Chris Long.
Kyle was the pitcher that is leaving FSU and was arrested for DUI in Virginia a few days ago. Chris Long is his brother.
There's a lot of truth in these posts.
Urban Meyer should be Bobby Bowden’s biggest fan. No way UF is enjoying the success they are now without steady decline of FSU and our complacent old “Head Coach”.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 9, 2009 6:17 PM EST reply actions
Warchant who?
I have gotten more on this site then I got paying on Warchant. They are just now running with the Reid story and FSUncensored threw a hour a few hours ago.
shh... I agreed not to post that as a mainpage story until tomorrow... that was an undercover hint, haha.
I can throw some things in the comments section that I wouldn’t put up as a story because we’re now popular enough that everything makes google news (blessing and a curse)
I've been on Warchant for a long time...
Have not been banned and although I like the site, I have grown increasingly disgusted with the type of censorship and blatent homerism for BB that goes on there.
Both my wife and I graduated from FSU in ’02 an my wife is an MBA student (online) at FSU right now and we are season ticket holders and give money back to the b-school each year.
Just FYI — I posted a message the other day asking if anyone had heard of this site and it was deleted by the mods; I don’t think they’re bad guys but I think they know where their bread is buttered so to speak.
Anyway, thanks for sharing the other side to the whole BB fiasco, it’s good to see that some people can be objective.
Welcome, Ghost
I’m sort of sad that this turned into an anti-Warchant thread. While Gene and I aren’t friends, I think we both understand that there is plenty of room for each site.
The problem is that they depend on access to the coaches and players. Let everyone say whatever they want and have the press credentials mysteriously disappear… They have to protect their interest.
You’re right on the money and while I have never been a huge basher of BB or the other coaches it has become painfully clear that we are very much complacent while schools like UF want to be the best.
I just hate taking “baby steps” towards being a great program while UF took leaps and within 2 year sof hiring Meyer they were already there.
In a state like Florida there is no reason we should not be better than we are.
Anyway, I like the site and I think you lay things out pretty objectively and appreciate it not being “filtered”.
Good job.
One last thing...
Why delete a post asking if anyone had heard of this site? Is it really that serious? I mean sometimes Warchant takes themselves way too serious with 2 contributors being on Jeff Cameron and what not. I get this is the “competition” to a degree but blatently deleting my post is sort of cheeseball.
I think
There are enough casual fans out there currently members at WC that it could hurt them if a mass exodus occurred.
The other problem is that the Bowden love base is dwindling, as if FSU’s fanbase. In this economy, I can’t imagine these paysites are thriving. Also, NoleInsider is here, and I expect one of the Big 3 to really fall off. I’ve already written off everything that comes from scout.
o.k are you really that naive.
Bowden knows everything that goes on. That doesn’t mean he is going to tell the media. Do you really want to negotiate Coach Trickett’s contract in public. I will give you that he doesn’t Coach any more. However you should stop making him look like some guy we just prop up to let the media know he is still alive.
I agree with you it is time to go, but I wish we stop shitting on the man. Honestly I would rather have him as a figurehead than Weiss and Wanstedt. Since he at least succeded at building a program something those guys have not done.
Do you have any proof that he is still “with it” enough to run a program? Do you know anyone who is 80 and still “with it”?
I don’t think I am “shitting on the man.” We are simply relaying what we see and hear.
What Bowden did 20 years ago only matters if he still has any chance of repeating it. What skills does he currently possess? What does he currently offer as a head coach? We pay this guy MORE THAN MACK BROWN, and he doesn’t do anything good for us outside of fund raising.
They need to give him about 250K to become a professional fund raiser/ cheerleader. Unfortunately, his bitter hate of FSU after they finally purged his failed experiment with his son prevents him from taking anything less than what he is currently getting.
I will not knock his accomplishments. I will say that right now, he is completely worthless as a head coach.
You expect me to beleve
that he knows everything that goes one when you doesn’t even know the name of a lot of his players?
I just don't think he cares...
You hear the guy talk about his fire and passion to win but I just don’t see it anymore. I’m just tired of talk, I don’t know of one man who can make me admire him and loathe him at the same time.
Is there really not that much to do when you are 80 and rich as hell? Dude, travel the world, spend time with your grandkids, play golf, drink skotch, whatever but coaching big-time college football is clearly not something an 80 year old man can do.
I don't have a copy, but...
in his book, he apparently makes mention of fearing death upon retirement like bear Bryant did.
What about his faith?
Not to take this another route, but he is a devout Christian, you’d think that he would not fear death as it should the culmination of his life and the transcendence to the next-level.
Anyway, he’s going to die at some point, he’s not RoboCop, so at some point you just need to realize what truly is important and as much as we love FSU, I’ll choose my wife and kids over it any day of the week.
I love robocop
Once broke up with a girl by telling her I was trying to watch Robocop and could she please not ruin it (frosh year, college)
Would it be embarrassing to have Bobby die in office?
That's great....
I told my wife to hold off the other night so I could finish watching Rambo part II — hilarious….
A quick aside
Darren Aronsky (who did the Wrestler) is remaking Robocop.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 10, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
pretty sad
pretty said when you have that outlook. If I felt the same way, then I wouldn’t be throwing money into an IRA account. I’m actually planning on retiring young so that I can enjoy life after work.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
We are in really bad shape
New defensive staff needed. It’s not good. I can finally say it and not deal with Semninole64 and White Knight Drew anymore.
Oh and 5171 is a sick sick person.
Warchant
I’m a fairly new contributor to this site, so I don’t have room to talk, but I’ll give my opinion that if this becomes a haven for anti-warchant people, it will in essence become warchant (I’m talking about the community). Years ago I had a brief membership to theinsiders FSU site (forget what it was called…Renegade Report? It’s now the scout site). I didn’t stay long partly because it became a place where banned warchant people came. Now, keep in mind there’s some very smart fans that get banned from warchant, but there’s also a large crowd of morons that get banned for being just that. You don’t want the morons anywhere near you.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
I like the site the way it is right now. . . . . .
I don’t think this will ever be Warchant.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
to clarify
Yes, I like the way it is to, for sure, and Uncensored does a mighty fine job and wouldn’t let it become warchant. I was more referring to not wanting some of the ridiculous posters on warchant making their way over here. It’s refreshing to come over here and not read comments from those types of people.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
We're conscious of that
and we’re definitely trying to keep this crowd in the higher level discussion category.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
That and the absence of aggressive censoring (due to the absence of reasons FSUn has mentioned)
will keep this from becoming warchant, I believe.
WoW... I'm ready for the change too, but this headline makes me angry!
Quit slamming one of the winningest coaches in history…
Besides this isn’t a surprise.
anyone can tell they are not making the switch until at least after next year, but my guess is after the next. two more years.
Furthermore, they ARE rebuilding this program, and they ARE going making the switch on a reasonable timetable….JUST NOT YOURS!
Yeah, right!
Well, he IS the worst head coach is college football.
Headline doesn’t say anything about winningest coaches in history.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
hey ARE going making the switch on a reasonable timetable….JUST NOT YOURS!
TC, we don’t know that. A reasonable time table would have been ’03 when we don the ACC with a 75yo coach who was clearly not with is anymore.
A reasonable time table would have been any of the years when we had the record Bowden said he would quit if he ever had (quoted numerous times)
Bowden won’t even acknowledge Jimbo’s deal. Yesterday he said he had no idea when he would hang it up. Many boosters worry that he tries to stick around for 2011 and drive this program further into the ground.
We’re trying to keep alerting the masses. “Worst Coach in College Football” wakes people up.
NOTE: I’m not slamming his legacy as one of the winningest ever, but rather talking about his current ability (None, just a pure fundraiser).
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take Weis in a heartbeat over status quo
We’re not talking about Bowden in his prime.
Actually – I might argue JoPa is the worst coach in CFB right now. I think he’s more senile than Bowden.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
now someone is making sence...
JoPa is only edging bowden in the W-L’s because he’s not playing our schedule in the south.
Yeah, right!
I completely agree
Penn St wouldn’t have had that record this year in the ACC.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
I put JoePa in the same category, but
the headline:
“Florida State retains worst head coach in college football (tie) for another year”
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
According to a father of an FSU player that warched the NC game with Derrick Williams (PSU receiver)
Joe Pa is surprisingly involved in practice, regularly getting in the faces of players and coaching different position groups. In fact, he broke his hip when he fell trying to demonstrate a correct onside kick. When has Bobby put himself in harms way coaching? He even admitted that he doesn’t stay up past 9pm and consequently only watched the first quarter of the national championship game, one with his rival!
To, that blatently, scoff at an opportunity to scout your opponent, is amazing to me. I get the fact that he’s the coach’s coach, but we can’t afford playing a man down every year just so he can lend upon Jimbo some discression with the media or teach him how to coddle booster. Winning will do that. Urban is not personable, Urban is not droll. Yet Urban wins. It seems as though FSU is trying to cut every corner to retain a sucessful image and staff while ignoring the road directly in front of them: winning. You see it in recruiting, where here people try in vain to point out that UF has too many quality players and their recruits should come here (ahem, Gary Brown). I mean, really? Did our winning and bevy of depth turn players away from 87-2000?
Win and all these superficial problems become null and void. As much as anyone admires the man, it is impossible to say that Bobby has the same drive to succeed that Urban has or Jimbo would have.
If you watched the beginning of the NC game, or virtually any Urban Meyer interview, he responds to questions in ways that can’t help but make me envious.
He responded, “I am an employee of the university of florida. The Gators play hard, the university and the players want this national championship. As an employee of the University of Florida, I will help them win it”
When was the last time Bobby showed his employer that kind of respect? Sure, it could (and most likely is all a farce) but who cares? Half the battle is public image, and Bobby has created the perception, at least amongst some fans of FSU, that he couldn’t give a damn. That he’s content with his past achievements and willing to overlook all the inefficiencies that frictionally sap positive energy from our program in an attempt for one last hurrah.
Fulmer
I’m also a Tennessee fan too, as my Dad went their. After embarasing performances by Tennessee, Fulmer would apologize post game and vow that they would work on the problems, and assured the fans that this is not what Tennessee football is about.
When has Bowden ever done that? Never. He never steps up and takes accountability. He never steps up and assures our fans that a poor product on the field is not acceptable. He never steps up after losing to UF and say this is not what we deserve and FSU won’t stand for it.
All he does is make fun of himself and blame execution. Or he points to a play or two and says that was the difference. Or he rationalizes it as “well so and so lost to them too.” For instance, after the UF game this year he said they are just a great team and LSU and UGA lost to them too, and those are pretty dadgum good teams. As if we are just going to say, “he’s right, UF is too good for us, and they also beat UGA and LSU so it’s acceptable.”
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
2009 is a throw-away year
It’s kind of like 3rd and 30 when you run a draw up the middle for two yards… a throw-away play. I don’t see much good coming from 2009. The offense will continue to mature and progress (assuming Trickett is retained), and it will be interesting to see if EJ Manuel throws his hat in the ring for starting QB duties. That will all be good, but aside from that, I don’t really see anything positive. Sure, I’m interested to see some of the young players on defense, but considering they are being poorly schemed and arguably poorly coached, it’s hard to say if that’s a positive.
Our schedule is scary. Our program simply can take a step back by losing to a BYU or a South Florida (both very possible). Sure those programs have some cred, but we’re talking about FSU here.
At the very least we could have rebuilt our defensive coaching staff under Jimbo’s guidance, even if that meant Bowden stays for another year. That way, we could at least started the process of rebuilding the defense, like we have been doing for the offense, so that when Bowden is officially gone we won’t have to go back to square-one.
But, instead we have this unbalanced mess. When Bobby, Mickey, Chucky, etc finally leave, we will have to rebuild the defense, which will be another year or two project at the very least. So… it’s looking like 2011 is the best case scenario for when FSU can finally shift into high gear.
I’m so sick of always feeling like FSU football is one big project that doesn’t get done. I know all teams deal with that, but I’d like to think there would be one year when we can put it altogether.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
Interesting take mp
Sure, I’m interested to see some of the young players on defense, but considering they are being poorly schemed and arguably poorly coached, it’s hard to say if that’s a positive. At the very least we could have rebuilt our defensive coaching staff under Jimbo’s guidance, even if that meant Bowden stays for another year. That way, we could at least started the process of rebuilding the defense, like we have been doing for the offense, so that when Bowden is officially gone we won’t have to go back to square-one.
I have a fairly controversial article in the hopper that states “Mickey’s goals and the programs goals are misaligned. Mickey wants to try to put the best defense out there while what we really need is a youth movement (Like UF Did in 2007). The youth movement should come under the DC who will be here in 2010, not Mickey. Why make these guys learn a new scheme?”
I’m so sick of always feeling like FSU football is one big project that doesn’t get done. I know all teams deal with that, but I’d like to think there would be one year when we can put it altogether.
They do, but I can’t think of one that squanders resources like we do.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
this is the reason Bobby is losing my respect
If the HCIW thing doesn’t go through to fruition because Bobby keeps hanging on, then he is personally accountable for whatever we end up paying Jimbo. Now way does the HCIW thing happen without Bobby signing off, therefore he needs to do everything in his power to prepare the program for his departure. He is squandering money, prestige, reputation, recruits, and on-the-field talent. Everything that has happened since naming Jimbo the successor is the definition of Bobby leaving on his own terms. All those people that say that trumps everything else need to wrap their heads around the fact that Bobby has started the process and hold him to it.
Great Thread
There are some incredibly insightful posts here.
My view is this:
We need wholesale changes on Defense. Why we have no DBs coach is beyond me. Why we do not even disguise our coverage pre snap is too.
One thing I noticed about the MNC game was how the defenses forced the QBs into making tough zones. They used a lot of pattern reading and the QBs were forced to fit the ball into small windows.
We could not do this against Tebow. His throws were Wide Open. Imagine having to make a tough read because the presnap look was a shell, and suddenly 4 DLs are collapsing your pocket before you can make a decision.
That is what must happen for FSU’s Defense to return to an elite level.
As for the offense…they MUST get an identity of some kind. Jimbo has not instilled one. They also must be able to throw against more complex zone defenses. This is the new wave of college football, and FSU for once is not an innovator, but a straggler.
Very sad.
I'll address some of these concerns when i finish the project
Can’t talk about he project or another site will steal my idea, but there are some hidden reasons that FSU can’t do some of this stuff.
Why must an offense have an identity?
What are the new more complex zone defenses? Who runs these?
I’m not trying to bust on you, but rather, I think sometimes these catch phrases get thrown around too often without a complete understanding.
NOTE; Totally agree about pre-snap read.
OK..now I am intrigued about this project!
This is true about catchphrases, I did play football for years so I am not just throwing around words, but I will explain:
By complex zone defenses, I mean more like Alabama’s. They disguise their coverage presnap and incorporate a lot of pattern reading. Hell even Wake Forest has a very nice Zone defense that gives a lot of unique looks and different angles on blitzes that obviously our QBs were not prepared for.
I believe the offense should have an identity because all the great ones do. UF and OU obviously have one. FSU’s championship teams did. They ran a no huddle that could go to I form or shotgun instantly. They have their go to playmakers that teams must worry about every snap. We currently do not. Yes we have some great receivers, but we need one to emerge as the leader. I believe the best talent will be at RB. We can establish this team as a play action fast break offense like the Indianapolis Colts. That is what I believe Jimbo likes. Single back with Hbacks/TEs who can flex as slot WRs. We have the 3 WR set that is a killer, if we get Orson Charles he can be the TE in that set with Pressley/Thomas/Jones as your 3headed backfield. That would be a scary base set, and Ponder would create even more matchups with his legs.
Right now FSU’s offense is not there yet. They can be with a few more recruits like Charles. They need a TE that makes plays though, and to keep stockpiling OL. We are trying to run a balanced offense with no balance because our TEs are not elite. And finally, we still need that top tier WR. Dubose would have been that guy. We do not have that guy right now until somebody emerges. If you listen to WC, then each year some 3-4 star guy is a god in preseason practice. No..they are 3-4 star players that need that 1 5 star talent to complete the picture. We get our hopes up each year, and it is not fair to the team or the players.
The good news is that the offense is only a few players away….the defense..:(
Do we even teach corner leverage like Saban does?
That was in MA’s instructions, but do we even follow that or does he even try to teach it?
Mickey’s downfall coincides with the arrival of Antonio Cromartie. Think about it.
1984-2003 was amazing. Think about those corners and safeties we consistantly produced each year.
Deion, Leroy Butler, Buckley, Clifton Abraham, Cory Fuller, Corey Sawyer, Samari Rolle, Clevan Thomas, Tay Cody, McFadden, Cromartie, Derrick Gibson, Chris Hope, etc.
2003-present has been awful. Name one corner that has progressed under MA.
MA is possibly my favorite FSU coach of all time. Sad to see.
P.S. Wow, this was a Captain Obvious post.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
By complex zone defenses, I mean more like Alabama’s. They disguise their coverage presnap and incorporate a lot of pattern reading. Hell even Wake Forest has a very nice Zone defense that gives a lot of unique looks and different angles on blitzes that obviously our QBs were not prepared for.
I like Alabama’s defense a lot, Wake’s as well. Our problem wasn’t necessarily against zone teams, however, but against teams who are BIG enough to stop our run with only 7 men. When you can’t run against 2 deep looks, you are in deep trouble. Good luck throwing then.
I believe the offense should have an identity because all the great ones do.
I disagree with this statement and the logic behind it.
We can establish this team as a play action fast break offense like the Indianapolis Colts. That is what I believe Jimbo likes. Single back with Hbacks/TEs who can flex as slot WRs. We have the 3 WR set that is a killer, if we get Orson Charles he can be the TE in that set with Pressley/Thomas/Jones as your 3headed backfield. That would be a scary base set, and Ponder would create even more matchups with his legs.
We are so in agreement here, you don’t even know. I would prefer to use 2 TE’s or even 3 Te’s a lot more often.
You’ll go nuts for this article: http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/2/10/184653/110 (everyone should check that out)
Doing that with Orson, Jabarri, Caz, and Reliford= matchup nightmare
I do want to see FSU running no-huddle next year. NOT necessarily a faster paced one, but just not huddling. Make the defense stay simple.
As a member of the "Gators For Bowden" Club (Seminole County chapter)...
… I don’t see what the big fuss is. Bowden’s doing important things. We just don’t get to hear about all of them, and he doesn’t really remember which one’s he’s doing at any given time. Hey, the guy is 79 freaking years old! Lay off of him.
5 more years, Bobby! You can do it buddy!
FIVE MORE YEARS! FIVE MORE YEARS! FIVE MORE YEARS! FIVE MORE YEARS!Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
I definitely understand...
…why you would want him to stay. UF clearly wouldn’t be in the position they’re in if it weren’t for FSU’s incompetence for the past eight years. Enjoy it while it lasts.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
Your teams of the past few years...
… could have been twice as good as they were and it wouldn’t have made any difference. More blowouts coming right up… :)
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
you're right...
because twice as good is still incompetent for our standards. Pretty funny a gator fan is flaming on this site. Please go over to Warchant.com where you and your other 12 year-old buddies can get your rocks off with people on your level.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
Are you saying FSU circa 1990s wouldn't have hung with UF circa 2006-present?
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
I am saying...
… that UF plays and defeats the best teams in the country right now. FSU isn’t a factor in “allowing” us to win championships. We play better teams now than FSU will have, best case, 5 years from now. It is looking grim for you.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
You miss the point
FSU being down allows you to get the best recruits. That’s the cycle. We’ve seen it when FSU and Miami dominated as well. You’re smarter than that.
And you're smarter than trying to have a rational conversation with a Gator fan like him
:)
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
You've had good recruiting classes.
Your problem is player development… and coaching stagnation.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
funny that a Gator posted here...
I just heard from a Gator friend of mine (I know, I cant believe it either) told me Tebow is comin back….If they win again next year….
He is definitely coming back.
It’s official, he just announced on TV.
4th national championship? 3rd in 4 years? That is now the goal. Righteous.
See y’all in Gainesville later this year!
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
Maybe Tebow isn't as dumb as he appears
Another year in college is much better than becoming an H-back in the NFL.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
He's coming back
and he won’t be drafted on day one NEXT year, and then recruits will start to think about achieving college excellence and ruining their pro potential.
If the NFL doesn't work out...
He can always go to grad school at UF and walk-on to the male-cheerleading squad.
This dysfunctional coaching hierarchy is not helping us reach our goals.
The Gator Fan makes a good point
I really hope FSU will be as good as Alabama, Georgia, and LSU in five years. We’ll just have to hold out hope and try our best.
What????
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 11, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions
That's the worst thing about UF winning...
It makes the most delusional, immature, obnoxious fans in the country even more delusional, immature, and obnoxious. I guess it wouldn’t be much less annoying if they were down right now. Then their whiny and fickle side would resurface and that’s just as unbearable.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 11, 2009 4:56 PM EST reply actions
There ya go.
10 points to the man wearing the garnet and gold suit. Correct observation, sir.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
But they are...
“We play better teams now than FSU will have, best case, 5 years from now.”
That’s a bit delusional to me. So is acting like UF is the Harvard of the South. So is acting like UF recruits straight A students without any baggage. So is acting like all of FSU’s success is due to cheating. So is thinking they would have beaten us by 60 this year if it wasn’t raining. So is pretending Gainesville is heaven and Tallahassee is a shithole. I can go on.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 11, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions
Are we really responding to Gator flame baits on this site?
I know it’s a slow day, but c’mon. No one’s more intellectually honest and objectively critical of the Noles than Tomahawk Nation. When that changes, we you can have all the fun(?) you want with these trolls when they come calling. I’m under the impression that this site has a higher calling.
Let the adult virgin type away about how the school he graduated from won another one-loss back-door national championship. It won’t change the fact that, not unlike a healthy sex life, he’s never known what it is to have an undefeated season or win something as special and memorable as a wire-to-wire national championship. Unfortunately, thanks to Bobby and co., whatever this loser thinks about that, he’ll finally have something to brag about next year. If only internet porn sites could guarantee the same fortune.
"No one’s more intellectually honest and objectively critical of the Noles than Tomahawk Nation."
This is absolutely correct, and one of the reasons I visit this site frequently as opposed to that joke of a Bowden fansite called ‘Warchant.’
We are all interested in what our rivals do. Our football programs need each other and are intertwined.
I can’t lie; I hate FSU and despise your fanbase. But I have a lot of ‘professional’ (ha!) respect for the bloggers on this site. This blog is quite good indeed.
Orange and Blue Hue: The World through GATOR-colored Glasses -- http://www.orangeandbluehue.com
except Lamarcus Joyner.
haha, just messin with ya genron.
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
State will always be a major factor in college football. Just needs some guidance right now. But serious talk. The last time I spent a week in Tally on FSU campus with my boy Piquin and my sister. I watched FSU practice all week. I was not impressed. Tempo was slow. Lots of hanging around and laughter by players. It just didnt have a serious feel. The only group that worked their butts off was the LBs. Both State and UM needs to reemphasized player development and get coaches who understand that.
I guarantee practice is not run like that anymore.
Jimbo is a Saban disciple; I would doubt Saban has a lot of goofing off in his practices.
Piquin was about ‘02-04, wasn’t he?
Our goal is simple: Best in the land
Kill a fly with an axe -- Mickey Andrews
Yeap. Man he went there weighting 215 running a 4.40. He got fat plain and simple in my eyes. Like 245 and I know he could run fast on a clock but football speed was gone. How do you all see Jimbo doing a better job? Im very interested.
Does Jimbo have some of his guys in already? What about Cooley and the big D-linecoach I meet. Cooley definetly needs to stay, he spits str8 from the heart. And i know the D-line coach is great
Genron,
he has lit a fire under the program. Energy is up. All of the players reported in better shape. We just had the fewest Injuries we’ve had (in terms of starters missing games) in the last 10 years.
Jimbo gets to work at 4am and stays until about 11. the guy is a tireless worker. He knows just about everything that goes on in this program. We want him in and Bobby out BECAUSE he is already doing everything.
The practices are much more organized. Everything is more organized now. Jimbo doesn’t play around. He is all about winning and getting these kids to bust their butts every day.
As far as Jimbo’s guys… every single guy Jimbo has brought in had been phenomenal. Rick Trickett is widely considered the best college offensive line coach EVER. Lawrence Dawsey is a former NFLer at wideout, a tireless worker, and very well respected within the coaching community.
The Tight Ends coach, James Coley, as you mentioned, is an excellent coach. You saw how much he loves being a college football coach. Jimbo hired him as well. He will be our offensive coordinator when Jimbo is the top dog.
O’Dell is the one Non-Jimbo hire who Jimbo will keep on staff. (O’Dell is the beat of a DLine coach, I talked about him today in the “Dear Gary Brown” article).
Jimbo has a ton of good contacts within the coaching community. When Bobby leaves next year, we will have 2.5 Million dollars freed up, and we will just most of that to get the best defensive coaches possible. Young guys with NFL experience and tons of energy. Guys who know what NFL teams are looking for. Guys who put in the 70+ hours per week.
Also, Jimbo has vastly improved our scouting, technology, and communications as a program.
Hope some of that helps.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha.. I had a class with Ray my freshman year in 2002.
I was so excited that I was actually in a class with a football player.
If the last time you saw practice was when Ray was here, a lot has changed since then.
No one can argue that the coaches we had at that time period were asleep at the wheel. I just wouldn’t let their limitations cloud LJ’s opinion of the guys we currently have.
If bowden is bringing in so much money.....
Why is he using a few old programs as a microphone stand? Lets at least snazzy up the place with the money. I guarantee you a big reason people go to UF is because of the facilities. Not saying we dont have good facilities but come on. Buy a mic stand.
Glitz and Glamour
Did Jimbo bring Dawsey and Trickett in?
As I recall those guys were mentioned very early on, even before Jimbo. I’m sure Jimbo taking the job did seal the deal, although I think Dawsey would have come in no matter what.
by Dent Street Nole on Jan 12, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions
Thank God Your'e Here!
I have been looking for a site like this for years. As a proud member of the Class of ’76, I saw the team when they were known as “half-assed U.” BB deserves every accolade he has gotten for making that team into a champion. However, his time has passed. I keep hearing that this is a “What have you done for me lately?” business. Quarterback seems to be a weakness with him. Remember Chris Weinke fell into his lap, luckily after Dan “the mad bomber” Kendra blew up, literally. After Weinke, he passed on Phillip Rivers in favor of Chris Sux and the program went downhill from there. Admittedly the cheating scandal did not help recruitment after that (if anyone was actively recruiting players after Marc Richt left). A younger student at the university tried to explain to me that the scandal was not as bad as the media made it appear; but I told him that appearances are reality, especially considering that the public perception of FSU is of a bunch of cheaters and thieves (we could sure use a lot more Myron Rolles). Any other coach who let a top 10 CFB program backslide this badly would lose his job. This is the downside of having a head coach who already has his own statue and football field.
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