Florida State Seminoles @ North Carolina Tarheels Offensive Preview
Florida State travels to North Carolina in Chapel Hill for the first ESPN Thursday night game at Kenan Stadium. The matchup features the Seminoles boast one of the nation's best offenses, but they will be up against an equally elite defense of the Tar Heels. The game also features the ACC's worst defense (Florida State) against the conference's worst offense (UNC). That's for tomorrow, however, as today I'll discuss the units that keep FSU and UNC in every game.
Left Defensive End 92 - E.J. Wilson (6-2, 280, Sr.)
Left Defensive Tackle 9 - Marvin Austin (6-3, 305, Jr.)
Right Defensive Tackle 93 - Cam Thomas (6-4, 325, Sr.)
Right Defensive End 42 - Robert Quinn (6-5, 270, So.)
Will Linebacker 47 - Zach Brown (6-2, 225, So.)
Mike Linebacker 52 - Quan Sturdivant (6-2, 235, Jr.)
Sam Linebacker 54 - Bruce Carter (6-3, 230, Jr.)
Cornerback 12 - Charles Brown (5-10, 205, Jr.)
Strong Safety 21 - Da'Norris Searcy (6-0, 210, Jr.)
Free Safety 27 - Deunta Williams (6-2, 210, Jr.)
Cornerback 16 - Kendric Burney (5-9, 190, Jr.)
That's quite the imposing lineup.
So just how good is UNC's defense? They are definitely amongst the best ten in the country. Maybe the top 5. Here's their performance in their 4 D1 games:
| at UCONN | E. Carolina U |
GTech | U. Virginia | |
| FEI OFFENSE RANK (FSU is 8th) | 49 | 62 | 2 | 66 |
| Plays | 61 | 61 | 77 | 68 |
| Yards Per Play Allowed | 3.2 | 4 | 5.3 | 3.8 |
| Rushes | 31 | 28 | 65 | 37 |
| Yards/ Rush Allowed | 3.3 | 2.6 | 5 | 3.7 |
| Passing Plays | 30 | 33 | 12 | 31 |
| Yards/ Pass Play Allowed | 3.1 | 5.3 | 6.9 | 3.8 |
| 1st Downs- Success-Stuffed | 26-15-7 | 23-7-11 | 29- 12- 13 | |
| Standard 2nd Downs | 6-13 (46%) | 3-8 (38%) | 1-5 (20%) | |
| Passing 2nd Downs | 2-8 (25%) | 5-12 (42%) | 4-15 (27%) | |
| Standard 3rd Downs | 1-6 (17%) | 6-7 (86%) | 7-10 (70%) | |
| Passing 3rd Downs | 1-8 (13%) | 3-11 (27%) | 0-9 (0%) | |
| Notes |
Had bad snap for -12 yards* 3rd and long, 4 sacks 2 picks Next best defensive performance against UCONN was 4.7 yards per play. UNC held the Huskies to 3.2 yards per play in Connecticut. By far their worst offensive performance of the year. |
Killed them on short yardage play action * 2 Plays over 20 yards 1 of only 2 teams to hold ECU under 4 yards per play. |
On road in Atlanta, UNC held YellowJackets to 64% of what FSU gave up against Tech in Tallahassee |
Many of the failed 2nd downs set up 3rd and 4 or less No plays over 20 yards |
- Yards-Per-Play is used because it is the best standard measure of defense. Total yards is moronic (please don't try to argue this, just use the search feature at right). It really isn't the fault of the defense if the offense allows the opponent to get 17 possessions or take the ball in UNC's red zone three times in a contest. How many snaps did you have, what did you do with them (or allow your opponent to do with theirs). Simple enough.
- Sacks have been re-allocated to Passing plays (since they are the result of a failed passing play and not a run play)
- Kneel-downs have been removed as they are a non-competitive play.
- Passing Down= 2nd & 8+ / 3rd & 5+ / or 4th & 5+
- 1st Down Success= Gaining 50% of necessary yardage for 1st down (or TD if in goal to go situations)
- 2nd Down Success= Gaining 70% of necessary yardage for 1st down (or TD if in goal to go situations)
- 3rd Down Success= Gaining 100% of necessary yardage for 1st down (or TD if in goal to go situations)
- Advanced Statistical Ideas are the brainchild of Bill Connelley (RockMNation.com)
So, is this performance Fluky? If not, why are they so good? How can FSU attack them?
Here's how good FSU's Offense is:
Click to enlarge, but you're not seeing things. That is indeed the Seminole Offense at #8 Nationally.
Again, click to enlarge. Yes, FSU's defense is 101st, and UNC's is 10th.
Is UNC's defensive performance fluky? No.
First, be sure to consider their performance from last year. UNC returns 8 starters off last year's excellent defense. Very few realize just how good that defense was. I'll refresh your memory:
In Diagram A, We see that only North Carolina State gave up more total yards per game than UNC. So by that measure, they weren't very good at all.
In Diagram B, we see Brian Fremeau's FEI (Fremeau Efficiency Index) Opponent Adjusted Defense Measure. That's drive-based, and doesn't measure plays that happen in garbage time (which I like, because I don't care how the defense did when it was up by 24 points in the 4th quarter). I put a lot of weight into this measure, and while it calls the 'Heels only the 4th best defense in the conference, you have to remember that Boston College, Wake Forest, and Clemson all had Nationally Elite defenses as well. So by this measure, they were very good. Also, this measure takes into account where the offense starts with the ball (if the offense starts on the defense's 10, it's pretty good to hold to a field goal).
In Diagram C and D, we see Bill Connelley's excellent S&P+ measure, which is the other premier metric for gauging performance. This indicates that UNC was a middle of the conference defense.
So which one do I trust? I discard A, because it doesn't account for how many plays UNC's defense faced, what position the offense put the defense in, or exclude stats from garbage time. So I'll say that UNC's defense was somewhere between B and C/D, which is to say that it was definitely in the top 25 nationally, but probably not top 10.
UNC runs a very conservative scheme under DC Everette Withers, though HC Butch Davis' fingerprints are all over this unit. You'll see lots of two-deep coverage. The corners play a mix of man and zone, and they never press/ play tight without help over the top. [This has changed some] They run a 4-3 look that is mostly gap control and they are huge.
But aside from good coaching and tremendous talent, there's yet another reason they are once again very good:
Tremendous Health
In contrast to their offense (which I will discuss tomorrow), the Tarheel defense has remained remarkably healthy. I couldn't find where any important player missed significant playing time due to injury, and if they have, they are entirely healthy for Thursday Night's game.
Turnovers To Come?
As we know, turnovers are for the most part, not the result of some sportcaster-esque "someone making a play", and instead largely a function of leveraging your opponent into passing downs. UNC hasn't produced those turnovers, yet they have done a nice job of forcing their opponents into passing downs. This was tough to diagnose. Against ECU, both sacks for UNC came on first down bootlegs by ECU. The Pirates did a fine job in passing downs, considering the circumstances, a combined 8-23 on passing downs with no turnovers or sacks. Against UConn, they produced 4 sacks and 2 interceptions in 3rd and long situations. And against UVA, they produced no sacks or turnovers on 3rd and long (or 2nd and long for that matter). UNC's sacks against UVA largely came when the QB had no pocket presence and ran into the sack. Florida State has done a great job avoiding situational turnovers. With only 1 interception in over 200 pass attempts (an amazing ratio), Christian Ponder has established himself as one of the finest QB's in the country. FSU's turnovers have come via the fumble. FSU fans should be happy about that, as fumbling is much easier to fix than interceptions, particularly when the turnovers are largely a result of an abnormally high fumble lost % (which is luck).
If there is going to be a player who does generate the pressure on those long-downs, it will be Robert Quinn:
The sophomore has quickly made a name for himself as one of the best defensive ends in the ACC. He leads the conference and is seventh in the country with 11 tackles for a loss of 69 yards, and is tied for first with three forced fumbles and also has four quarterback hurries. He's second in the ACC and seventh in the nation with seven sacks for 58 yards. Quinn had a career-high 10 tackles, including 2.5 for loss, at Georgia Tech. He's a big reason why UNC has one of the top two defenses in the conference.
Anyway, Ponder is excellent.
| QB's Against at least 5 winning teams- performance in those games. | ||||||
| Name |
Team | TD | Int | QB Rating | Yards/G | Yards/Att |
| Christian Ponder | FSU | 9 | 1 | 151 | 292 | 8 |
| Tyrod Taylor | Va Tech | 7 | 3 | 143 | 138 | 8.6 |
| Kirk Cousins | Mich St | 6 | 4 | 139 | 220 | 7.9 |
| Joey Elliott | Purdue | 14 | 10 | 132 | 278 | 7.2 |
| Terrelle Pryor | Ohio State | 8 | 6 | 131 | 172 | 7.5 |
| Jake Locker | Washington | 11 | 6 | 128 | 243 | 7.2 |
| Tyler Sheehan | BGSU | 7 | 3 | 123 | 291 | 6.2 |
| Adam Weber | Minnesota | 5 | 6 | 123 | 201 | 7.2 |
| Ricky Stanzi | Iowa | 7 | 6 | 121 | 208 | 6.8 |
| Jameel Sewell | Virginia | 5 | 5 | 119 | 191 | 7.1 |
| Greg Paulus | Syracuse | 6 | 10 | 116 | 183 | 6.5 |
| Paul McCall | FIU | 9 | 5 | 114 | 236 | 5.8 |
| Juice Williams | Illinois | 4 | 4 | 112 | 177 | 6.2 |
Among QB's who have faced at least 5 winning teams, Ponder is the only QB with a QB rating of 150+ and he averages the most yards per contest.
The Irresistible force v. the Immovable Object? Basically.
So how do they get it done? It all starts up front.
Defensive Line
The 'Heels are absolutely loaded on the defensive line, which has been a trademark of Butch Davis teams from his days at Miami (both times), to his stint with the Dallas Cowboys, etc. His defensive line coach is the highly regarded Jon Blake. They return every starter and backup, and are very very talented. This will be one of the toughest challenges the Florida State line will face this year. Let's run through the group.
At Defensive Tackle, the Tar heels have a pair of absolute studs in 6'4" 325lb Senior Cam Thomas, and 6'3" 300lb Junior Marvin Austin. Thomas is the space eater, and he'll play in the NFL because he has a low center of gravity. He's a load and Florida State's All-Conference Center Ryan McMahon must be able to stymie him. Often times Thomas draws a double team, and that allows Austin, arguably the most talented defensive tackle in the conference and a likely 1st round draft choice, to work against a single blocker. Austin is explosive to be sure, but needs to have a more consistent motor. I have no doubt he'll be up against the 'Noles and Austin is a serious candidate for ALL-ACC Consideration. FSU's All-America Guard Rodney Hudson against Marvin Austin will be a great battle to watch. So UNC has two NFL defensive tackles, one of whom is a serious 1st round talent. They also have Senior Aleric Mullins (6'3" 305) and Sophomore Tydreke Powell (6'3" 305), both of whom will log 10-15 snaps per game. It's safe to say UNC is loaded at defensive tackle.
At defensive end, UNC is similarly huge, though less proven. At Strongside End, the 'Heels have 6'2" 280lb Senior E.J. Wilson. He's their "edge" player, setting the edge and turning the play back toward the pursuit. He's backed up by 6'6" 260lb Quintin Coples, who was an all-world recruit. Coples is very raw, but he is unquestionably talented and has 1st round draft choice written all over him if he can put it together. At Weakside End, the Tar Heels have a really great story. 6'5" 260lb Sophomore Robert Quinn overcame brain cancer (I believe it was bran cancer) to have a great season last year and his stock is rising every day. He'll go against Andrew Datko and is the Heels' most improved lineman. Quinn is an excellent edge rusher, though I do think he lucked into a few of his sacks.
So this group is huge and talented. This line will throw fresh talented bodies at the offense on almost every down. Football fans and NFL scouts will be focused on the line of scrimmage in this one, and I honestly don't know who will win this battle of well coached talent. They are great against the run and very good against the pass (an improvement over last season).
Fun fact: the Heels are 2nd in the country in tackles for loss. Over 13% of opponent's plays go for negative yardage.
Linebacker
While not quite the group that the defensive line is, UNC's linebackers are top notch. 6'2" 235lb Junior Quan Sturdivant shifted from Weakside backer to the middle spot for this season. His production has exploded as he is protected from blockers by the defensive tackle duo in front of him. He's similar to London Fletcher in that he's has excellent side to side range. Sturdivant is going to be an ALL-ACC Player and is currently projected as a 2nd round draft choice, listed as the 3rd best outside linebacker in the country.
At Strongside Linebacker is Bruce Carter, a great athlete with improving instincts (he was a quarterback in high school). He's 6'3" 230 and is very good in pass coverage when he guesses right (watching these UNC linebackers, they are all decent in pass coverage). He's another guy who is a lock to be a 1st day selection (1st 3 rounds), with the potential to be a late first or early second rounder. Butch Davis is great at recruiting defensive talent, as he did at Miami, and I definitely see his imprint on these linebackers. Carter also has a legit shot to be ALL-ACC, though the writers typically don't take two from the same team.
The only question at linebacker is at the weakside linebacker spot, and depth. Zach Brown is an undersized (6'2" 225') sophomore who is very raw. He sort of sticks out on film as the weak link. He's not a bad player, but compared to the other monsters in the front-7, he's doesn't quite measure up.
Front-7 Size
While UNC isn't afraid to bring the safety down into the box to stop the run, playing cover-1 or cover-3, they would prefer not to do that, and they rarely have to. And one way they are enable to accomplish this (stopping the run with 7 and not 8 men), is with great size.
We've done a lot of work on this, and you can read out 3-part series "Does Size Matter" here: Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3.
Here's what you need to know, there were 6 defenses that had a combined front-7 size of more than 1860lbs: Alabama, South Carolina, Boston College, Wake Forest, Southern Cal, and... North Carolina. All of those defenses were elite, all have numerous highly regarded NFL prospects, and all forced a lot of turnovers by stopping the run with their size and forcing teams into 2nd and 8+/ 3rd and 5+ situations. UNC checked in at 1865lbs. A defense that size is just hard to move out of the way and they don't need the extra run defender in the form of a safety. When your focus as a safety is on the pass and stopping the run is an afterthought, you will play well against the pass. There is a much more detailed explanation in the linked articles above. This year, their front-7 should be among the biggest in the country again, weighing in at 1860lbs.
The Secondary
As I said, these guys had a bunch of interceptions last year (top 10 nationally), but are they really that good? I don't think so. None are high up on draft lists despite being draft eligible, and they definitely benefit from the scheme and an excellent front-7.
At the corner position, they have 5'9" Kendric Burney, who is a good college corner with quick hips who had 13 pass breakups last season. At the other corner they feature Junior 5'10" Charles Brown, who was All-ACC in 2007 but got banged up last year and lost his job to 5'10" Senior Jordan Hembry, who played well last year. I don't think these corners are all that special, and FSU fans hope they can match up 6'3" 232lb Super-Recruit Jarmon Fortson with Burney, as Fortson has a considerable size advantage along with his freakish athleticism. So the corners are above average or good, but definitely not great. I should note that their corners tackle well.
At Safety, UNC is lamenting the loss of Tramane Goddard, their 2nd Team All-American Safety. He was a good college player, but he was an ALL-AMERICAN because of his interceptions, which is often a poor way to judge a player, particularly a safety. In any case, he wasn't drafted and I think they overestimate his loss. Replacing him at strong safety will be Da'Norris Searcy, a 6'0" 210' Junior who UNC fans are pretty high on. He's a good athlete but I haven't seen him making a bunch of plays. He's definitely the better athlete than Goddard was, but he doesn't have the instincts yet apparently. At Free Safety, they have Deunta Williams. I like Williams, he's now a Junior and won the ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2007. He's their best secondary player from what I have seen (though they will tell you it's Burney). Christian Ponder will need to look him off, particularly when throwing plays designed to split their cover-2. Still, none of these guys seem all that special. There's no standout NFL type talent here.
For more on UNC's secondary, check this article out: UNC Butch Davis Coverage Schemes
Observations
I have to say that I was extremely disappointed in some of the things that East Carolina and Virginia did on offense. Certainly there are things UNC did to limit them, but ECU and UVA really shot themselves in the foot. I am going to focus on Virginia and East Carolina because UConn isn't really similar to what FSU does and Georgia Tech is obviously dissimilar. UVA dropped 2 bubble screens and misfired on several more. The whole point of a spread offense is to demand respect. If you refuse to or prove that you cannot throw to the man split out wide, you might as well just use an extra tight end or a fullback because the defense won't have to respect that player and you put yourself at a numerical disadvantage. UVA really messed up in that area. Let's use a picture to illustrate.
Ponder throws the bubble so well that he could play for Oregon. Because FSU will become more of a spread team with the loss of elite tight end Caz Piurowski, they must force UNC to account for all the men split out wide. More on this later, but UVA and ECU and even UConn got terrible QB play.
Run and Gun
I don't want to see Ponder under center much in this game. FSU needs to commit to the spread approach and go all-spread, all-gun, all game. And they need to run the ball from the gun and stay committed to running it from the gun (unless of course, UNC, by alignment, simply gives FSU the pass all day, which they might.)
The 'Nole line is extremely quick and very intelligent. They are bigger and stronger this year, as last year they were the youngest offensive line in the country. They will not try to blow UNC's line off the ball (nobody can), but rather turn them and gash them. Still, this will be no easy task and quite the battle, as UNC is quite good against the run.
Virginia actually had a lot of success running the ball from the spread. The Cavs had 17 runs of five or more yards. They also had a good bit of tackles for loss, but I happen to think a good portion of those were a result of their offense being horrible (definitely outside the top 80 in the country. They used 3 QB's in the game, etc.)
In order for FSU to run on UNC they must do an excellent job of cut blocking. Rodney Hudson is one of the best cutters I have ever seen, but this must be a collective effort. Cutting will decrease the aggressiveness of some of UNC's defenders, and can also start to wear on them. Nobody has done a good job of cutting these guys yet, except for GTech of course.
There is some precedent for running from the gun against UNC. Last year, against an elite UNC defense about as good as this one (maybe a bit better), West Virginia and NC State gashed them for 31 and 41 points respectively. FSU's offense is at least as good as those two were. The key will be to run Ponder early, make UNC respect Ponder's legs, and then let Thomas go to work. Remember that Ponder should be fully healthy for this game, and UNC might have forgotten about this kid's tremendous legs. He's FSU's best running QB since Charlie Ward.
Finally, I would not be surprised to see a lot of Pistol.
The Passing Game
FSU can throw the ball on UNC. So far, UNC has seen nothing but really poor qb play. The plays were often there to be made by UVA and ECU, and their QB's just didn't take advantage. Additionally, UNC doesn't have the ability to simulate what FSU does in practice at anything approaching a similar level (if they did, those kids would be playing).
Last year, UNC played a lot of man-under coverage (2 deep safeties, man underneath), and some cover-3. This year, they haven't seen any decent wideouts, and as a result, they have mixed it up. I was shocked when I fired up the DVR.
They have been playing a lot of man coverage with only 1 or even no deep safety! Look at the picture above. For whatever reason, UNC has become a blitz happy defense. Now, is that just something they wanted to show their future opponents, knowing it wouldn't matter in the games in which they showed it? Could it be that they are desperate to force a turnover or big play knowing that their offense is terrible? I'm not sure.
What I am sure is that if they try that against Florida State, Ponder will have a field day. Remember that this is the look Ponder has practiced against every day for the past 3 years against Mickey Andrews' old school defense. The alignments UNC has trotted out just won't fly against FSU. I would expect UNC to force FSU to establish the run before the Heels come out in something like this. They have to respect FSU's wideouts. They will play lots of cover-2 and cover-3. If they do come out in this, expect 1 or 2 long bombs, probably up the seam, to get them out of that look.
UNC has also blitzed their corners a lot. FSU's RB corps will need to do a good job of picking up UNC's blitzes, because in a game like this, it will be tough enough to move the ball.
FSU might break out some no-huddle here. We saw WVU do it last season. NCST did it as well, and ECU and UVA did it too (though their offenses were horrible).
In addition to the bubble screens, FSU needs to throw some RB screens. UNC hasn't done a good job defending RB screens to date, and with FSU's incredibly athletic offensive line, there should be some great opportunities to hit some plays. It also serves as a regulator of UNC's aggressiveness.
This is out of place, but UNC hasn't faced anything even resembling a downfield passing game yet. I would like to see FSU match up on UNC's safeties in the downfield game. Perhaps TE Reliford could be big here?
Ponder's ability to check could be huge in this game. FSU often calls 2-3 different plays in the huddle, and Ponder then selects the correct one.
I don't want to make this defense seem unbeatable. They are not, but they are very good. And they are at home, at night, on a Thursday, behind a sellout crowd, and will be well rested. The 'Noles offense will probably see more 2nd and 8+/ 3rd and 5+ situations than they like, and I suspect it will take a broken tackle or two leading to a big play for the 'Noles to get the win. Methodically marching the ball on this defense likely isn't an option. Expect FSU to spread them out and make them account for all 11 offensive players by running the quarterback, and make no mistake about it, FSU will need to throw the ball to win. That's difficult to do in 2nd/3rd and long, so I expect FSU to throw the ball early, ala Bill Walsh. I do think UNC can be beaten by throwing on early downs. We saw Notre Dame do that to them last season, as well as NC State and West Virginia. The real key is to get their big guys to play in space in situations where they do not know they will be playing in space (aka not in 2nd and 3rd and long!).
Offensive Prediction: FSU will get 6.2 yards per play, which is 17% more than any offense has put on Carolina this season. How many plays FSU gets is dependent on a lot of factors. If they get 60 plays, that's 360 yards. If they get 75 plays, that's 465 yards. If FSU can put up 6 yards per play on this defense, I will be extremely pleased.
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Comments
Won't be good enough no matter what
People don’t realize how good UNC’s defense is. If we score 24, that’s a win.
I have been tellin people we need to score 35 to win this game...
Even though I dont think we will score that many.
Will you be givin your prediction after explaining how their offense is going to gash our “defense”?
Yes, I will
and their offense is by far the worst we have faced, and I still expect them to rape us.
by Bud Elliott on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well poor word choice,
but I wanted to make the point that many aren’t smart enough to evaluate performance relative to competition.
How about
“Multiple counts of forced-entry into the end-zone”?
by wnc_nole on Oct 21, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
LOL, That's just not right...
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
We know we're gonna get "sexed from behind", so might as well get deliberately drunk
and blame on the ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-alcohol!
According to dictionary.com
Rape: an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation
Pretty word….no
Accurate, I would say so unfortunately.
Do you think they might punt?
b/c i have gotten to the point when I expect a TD to be scored on us every time.
Some Punt Numbers
Minus the JaxSt game we have forced 3.2 punts/game – DISGUSTING
Of those 16 forced punts (each opponent averaged 40 yds per) we have returned 6 (3 in both the UCF and BC game) to an anemic 4.9 yards/return.
Mickey, CTC and Jody’s work at its finest.
Self Appointed Grammar Police
This isn't a text message, please communicate as if you received an education.
error
That 4.9 yards/return should actucally be 14.7
That average would leave Reid ranked 5th among Punt Returners, unfortunately 6 returns is not enough to qualify amongst NCAA leaders.
Self Appointed Grammar Police
This isn't a text message, please communicate as if you received an education.
Special Team Numbers
UNC Punt Coverage
32 Punts (0 TD) – 3 yards/return (Rank #11) Net Avg. 37.72 yards (Rank #24)
FSU Punt Return
11 Punt Returns (0 TD) – 9.73 yards/return (Rank #47)
FSU Punt Coverage
21 Punts (0 TD) – 3.86 yards/return (Rank #17) Net Avg. 37.95 yards (Rank #22)
UNC Punt Return
21 Punt Returns (1 TD) – 13.14 yards/return (Rank #24)
UNC Kickoff Returns
15 Returns (0 TD) – 19.27 yards/return (Rank #100)
FSU Kickoff Coverage
32 Kickoffs (0 TD 12 TB) – 23 yards/return (Rank #88)
FSU Kickoff Returns
29 Returns (0 TD) – 18.34 yards/return (Rank # 107)
UNC Kickoff Coverage
29 Kickoffs (0 TD 1 TB) – 21.74 yards/return (Rank # 71)
Just looking at the raw numbers it would seem that they have the edge in Punt Returns. Both teams are very poor on both sides of the Kickoff (although our 12 TB are quite impressive)
*Our Punt Return numbers changed from above due to the addition of the Jax St. game
Self Appointed Grammar Police
This isn't a text message, please communicate as if you received an education.
The offense
will come to play no doubt. But they won’t score at will like against GT or BYU.
FSUn has said this won’t be a night where we’ll see alot of long, time consuming drives.
Unfortunatley, time consuming drives on offense is our best defense which is why I’m worried it won’t matter.
Great analysis FSUn, but man, every offense we face looks like an NFL team agianst our defense.
Anyone who thinks we'll be fine because UNC has a bad offense obviously didn't watch the BC game
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Bobby Bowden.........it's time to go
Be a TRUE Seminole: http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071509aab.html
Don't think it's fair to use BC game as measuring stick for our defense vs. bad offense.
Everyone remembers their pitiful performance against Clemson preceding our game, but QB (Shinskie?) only had 1 pass attempt that game, and otherwise this season their offense has managed to put up some pretty gaudy numbers (though against admittedly sub-par defenses facing the likes of FSU, NC State, and Wake). Nonetheless, I think the jury is still out on just how “bad” BC’s offense is. I would warrant they’re a lot better than UNC.
Eh, look what they did against Va Tech
I don’t think BC has one of the top 60 offenses in the country.
But then look at what Miami did against VT
I’m just saying the jury is still out. UNC has been consistently bad. And based on results so far, I would be willing to guess that BC’s offense will have demonstrated itself much more capable than UNC’s by season’s end.
With our defense, we’re still bringing a knife to a gun-fight, but either way, I’d rather be facing a musket than a .45.
Eh
I think there’s more than enough now. BC’s offense isn’t any good.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/statistics/fei-ratings/2009 ofei ranked 61st
And agreed, UNC’s offense is worse than BC’s
Beyond the cumulative stats, another dynamic related to personnel.
BC’s ratings include 2/3 games where Shinskie playing half time or less. On the other hand, hasn’t the UNC offense suffered quite a few injuries? So BC’s O is theoretically better than their season total would suggest, while UNC’s might be worse.
As bad as they have been, our defense has been able to keep the score manageable against truly under-manned offenses, so I agree with your take that 24 pts might be enough to put us over the top, provided we keep the turnover ratio even or better.
See I disagree
because USF and BC literally went into a complete shell for over a quarter each. They literally ran clock in the 3rd quarter.
Those stats are not counting stats, though by cumulative they do include all of the season’s D1 games. We will have to see.
I agree about USF, BC shutting things down.
But again, relating to UNC, I think their offense might very well resemble a “shut-down” USF or BC offense.
The early results indicate
that they are about USF bad and that BC is more like an avg college football offense and an avg ACC offense.
Nice work
Ok So sence Our Def sucks so much will Jimbo try to keep the Offense on the field to kill the clock or score as much as he can.
If We spread them out wll it be through trips or are we going to see more pony like formations with 2RB. (I hope we use 4 WR looks with 1 RB.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Also TE Reliford
Is it just me or is this guy faster than most Te. I have seen a few plays and hes looks more like a WR than a TE.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I constantly get him confused with Fortson.
They look a lot a like on the field….similar build.
by Fire Machine on Oct 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If I remember
He was a BB player in HS, something like 6’7" 240? He’s a pretty big (tall) target, but doesn’t look like a TE because he’s so tall.
I just remember a catch he had vs Miami where he took off running on the sideline
and though man they wR was fast but turned out to be him. I like him a lot and would love to see more ball thrown to him.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
So why not
use Reliford like UF uses Hernandez? How about that little option pitch to the TE up the middle that always seems to get 8-10 yds for UF?
Reliford is nowhere near the player Hednandez is
I think AH is actually on roids, but that’s another story. That shovel is something that doesn’t really fit within the context of our scheme. It would look obvious.
So what happens when....
we start with the Bubble screens? I assume they counter by bringing a LB out to match, but if that happens, will we be able to run on them? I think pulling 1 LB out still has us in a bad position to run against their front.
Also, what if they counter by lining up their CBs right on the line, but still giving up the over the top, with their safety helping on that? Will we have enough tie to get off a pass to beat them deep?
I’m almost thinking we need to line up in a 4 WR (2 to each side), and make them pick their poison….either get the bubble to death, or give up the deep pass, or give up the Ponder run.
This is going to be an interesting game to watch (when we have the ball at least)
we start with the Bubble screens? I assume they counter by bringing a LB out to match, but if that happens, will we be able to run on them? I think pulling 1 LB out still has us in a bad position to run against their front.
Yeah, we can run on them if they have 5 or 6 in the box against our 4 wideouts. But 7 is a no-go.
Also, what if they counter by lining up their CBs right on the line, but still giving up the over the top, with their safety helping on that? Will we have enough tie to get off a pass to beat them deep?
That’s basically a perfect time to run, no?
I’m almost thinking we need to line up in a 4 WR (2 to each side), and make them pick their poison….either get the bubble to death, or give up the deep pass, or give up the Ponder run.
That’s exactly what I am proposing.
Don't know
But we may still have a hard time running on them with 6 in the box….I guess that will be the test to see what our options are. I think against 5 we’ll see some holes open up pretty regularly.
If they cheat their CBs to the line, leave their LBs in the box, and trust that the safeties provide some help while their line applies pressure, I think that isn’t a great time to run….unless you are thinking a draw or screen. The parts of UNC games I’ve seen shows that their line can be very disciplined when they need to be, and I’m concerned that this would set up for a TFL.
Thanks for the awesome analysis and insight!!!
I’m confused by this
If they cheat their CBs to the line, leave their LBs in the box, and trust that the safeties provide some help while their line applies pressure, I think that isn’t a great time to run….unless you are thinking a draw or screen. The parts of UNC games I’ve seen shows that their line can be very disciplined when they need to be, and I’m concerned that this would set up for a TFL.
4 corners 2 safeties 2 linebackers and 4 linemen is 12 players and that’s illegal…
sorry
That was still where I was thinking 3 WR and a TE / H-back, as per our typical alignment
4 DL
3 LB
3 CB
1 S (providing deep help to one side)
I don’t think CP7 gets much time to find a receiver.
Loved the response though:
and that’s illegal…
I know we need to
but what we’ll have to find out is, given that scenario, will we be able to? Will the line get Ponder enough time? Will the receivers get separation?
Can’t wait to find out!
Shouldn’t need too much time to run the jump ball offense, and in all seriousness that’s not the worst type of offense to run against this alignment. You just have to adjust with double moves and outs.
Also if you only have 2 LBs in the middle of the field the drags, slants, and level plays start to open up.
I’m actually half serious on that. A jump ball is a one-on-one match up that FSU should be able to exploit, especially with Fortson. However, it can’t be your sole play. It needs to be sprinkled in, like one or two a quarter at the most.
Actually I’d rather see us run a lot of corner routes. I’m not sure if Ponder can throw this but if the DBs are playing inside technique it should result in some nice gains. Combined with a post or seam route and you’ve got to have a mis-match.
Aw hell, let’s just run all go’s all the time.
Was laughing to seld about a conversation I had.
Ponder throws the corner well as part of out smash I think.
You can’t argue that a 12 player defense is effective. I don’t care what Saban says, 12 player defense > cover-1 and cover-3
We need to be able to have 12 players on the field
Unfortunately, I don’t think that will help this year…..
why do we need 12 defensive players on the field? So we can have one guys more chasing the WR down the field, or one more guy to over pursue and get burned by some misdirection? On another note, we barely have 11 guys good enough on Defense to go out there at a time, where the hell are we going to find a 12th guy? (sarcasm very much intended)
if we start the 12th guy in the endzone
that might open up some more options for not having everyone burned deep.
touche’. I did not think about that. However, we could probably do that now with just the 11. It’s not like our DTs are doing anything else.
OK, now I have an idea. we take out one of the DTs and replace him 1 lucky fan from the game. That guy gets to suit up and stand at the 5 yard line and be the final defender. Who wouldn’t be more likely to go to the games if there was the chance that you’d actually get to play????
we start the game with bubble then fake the bubble and run a draw
then fake the bubble and throw the bomb to the WR that was supost to block for the bubble. Then we go back to the bubble.
Next we run an option, then an option pass or option revears then the other.
If they for some reason drop to 5 in the box the check goes to zone read, if they have 7+ in the box bubble.
What I want to know is should er see the Twin shotgun look with a TE in. They can still run but I think UNC would put 7 in the box. With caz out we could send the TE in motion and have LB and S out of place. Think it could work.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
The pony was a good Idea with passing out of the backfield
I like it as running that Sweep play where both run with a FB lead block. That play could work but just never came all together. If we could get a RB/Ath that could go in motion and set up trips or Double Twin looks this would could work out. Or get a WR that could come in and run off T or outside with a RB as a lead blocker. have a 4WR look with motion to a pony look.
But we realy dont need this. FSU has 2 fromations they can run. Teams have to get ready for Double TE looks and Spread looks. If we cant run in a Double TE then we run out of spread. Its almost like we are making teams learn 2 Offense the Spread and that West coast Ace look. Wonder if we will start using some of that Double TE with a shotgun look or even better Shotgun empty with double TE and 3WR.
Thats what I would love to see next year. Hell ya.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
In corollary
Do we know if Jimbo scripts his first 1-2 series of offensive plays, ala Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense?
My gut says yes
The USF game appeared to be that way. I thought I remember Ponder specifically not looking over to the sideline for playcalls for the first couple of drives.
However,
If for some reason the offense is scoring at will, why not take some selectively choosen delay of game penalties ( half kidding)
What worries me is that this is setting up a lot like the USF game did
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Bobby Bowden.........it's time to go
Be a TRUE Seminole: http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071509aab.html
Yes, but USF's strength
At least in terms of their Dline, came from the outside (Selvie and JPP). I think Hudson McMahon and Spurlock should fare much better against UNC’s strength (the DT’s) than Datko, Greenlee, and Sanders did against USF.
Still, to say that our line shouldn’t get embarassed again is pretty far from saying we can outscore them, when they’re basically playing with a handicap (our atrocious defense).
I see us struggling with those DT's
Ponder is going to have a lot of pressure in his face. Screens and slants are going to be a big component of the offense tomorrow night. As much as we have to keep them honest against the run, I think we have to keep them honest in having to play the deep ball as well. If Goodman doesn’t play, I think it will hurt. I’m thinking that this will be another one of the games in which the defense gives us the pass first, and Jimbo will come out throwing.
>>---l>
McMahon vs. a 325lb. tackle is a recipe for disaster.
Ponder should plan on a couple extra steps in his drops. The pocket will be moved back 5 yards immediately after the snap.
Man-to-man, sure
But the real issue is when we run the stretch play does UNC’s front 4 have the speed to slice through the wave. I’ll contend they don’t really. We’re a zone-blocking line at this point, so the prowess of their front 4 in man-to-man (goingo on a limb, here) shouldn’t be that huge of a advantage.
by ricobert1 on Oct 22, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It poses a problem in pass protection, though
>>---l>
by DKfromVA on Oct 22, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Channeling Will Ferrell
“I want you to play dirty, but don’t get caught.”
If that doesn’t work, screens, draws, and runs from the gun to limit the upfield aggressiveness from the DT’s.
>>---l>
Hmmm, I'm really glad Ponder is healthy going into this
UNC will probably start out in a cover 2 shell (of varying press) and challenge us to beat their front 7. If the WRs get picked up, I like Ponder’s mobility (a la @Miami ’08).
Although, I do worry now
about their DE quality. Specifically, they have the strength there to tell them to rush straight upfield and contain Ponder laterally, forcing him to have to take a step between the tackle and guard to escape the pocket. Regardless, we will need an excellent game from our interior linemen. Spurlock will have to a play with a lot of self-control.
however couldnt we see some normal shotgun with the TE in to help block
Have the T and TE block to get ponder out the pocket and around the DE. We have had sucsess with a moving pocket. Our TE dont have to hold the block just help for a sec then curl in the mid as a last resort. The RB got off T to the flats. Second if they rush up field then wouldnt it be better to let them and have to T block out and have the G and C double that side DT and run the Zoneread.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
It's funny
As rabid fans, I’m sure a lot of you get pretty worked up thinking about the gameplan. About what might work, and what probably won’t, and where we will need to adjust. I get pretty excited leading up to each game reading FSUn’s preview, and thinking about how the game will play out.
I have this happen before soccer games that I play in too…granted it’s not NCAA competition out there, but still it’s just getting ready to play your best, and knowing that you’ll have to adjust to what the other team is doing. I could go on about how I feel this way about my son’s flag football games too, but he’s 4 and I only have to outsmart 4-5 year olds with the plays I teach my team (by the way, an end around, run correctly with the HB fake is THE way to go…).
Anyway, the whole point of my thought here was that I get worked up about all this, and you have to imagine that Jimbo / Coley / Trickett feel this way as they plan for each team they gameplan against, except times 1000 or something. Jimbo’s fan perception rides on how he prepares each week, adding an extra element to what he feels.
And then there’s Bobby, who gets the best seat in the house to not be involved in any of that. I’m not going into BB is a bad coach, or isn’t a coach, or whatever….but it’s sad to me, that by his own comments, he’s been doing it so long that you don’t get worked up over this anymore. For the coaches, that is where a lot of the excitement is, and Bobby doesn’t really do any of that anymore (and hasn’t in a LONG time).
Another question would be
How much of their defensive hand has UNC shown? As FSUn said, they haven’t played a good offense with balance (which excludes GT) yet this season. Will they continue with their aggressive gameplan and play the press corners with one safety? Or will they go back to cover 2 and 3 looks relying on pressure from the front 4 with the occasional blitz?
>>---l>
Some thoughts I had while reading another great analysis by FSUn. (There is no dimmer switch on the light bulb in FSUn's head / excuse me while I wipe my nose)
A) Their DT’s are: 6’4" 325lb Senior Cam Thomas, and 6’3" 300lb Junior Marvin Austin, and Senior Aleric Mullins (6’3" 305) and Sophomore Tydreke Powell (6’3" 305).
Daddy, I know what I want for Christmas.
2)
FSU might break out some no-huddle here.
This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this analysis, to prevent their D from rotating out, to tire out their big boys, and keep them on their heels since they haven’t seen a offense like ours yet, but the downside is scoring too quickly and bringing letting our defense out on the field. Although this is probably the worst offense we may face this year, maybe the time is right, who knows.
D) While we are proficient at throwing the bubble screen and we should bubble them to death until they take it away from us, I don’t understand why we don’t throw the RB screen more than we do, We have the athletes to do it, yet I don’t think Jimbo does it enough (www.fireJimbo.com). I know how we all love gut feelings on this site, but I have a gut feeling we will see much more of the RB screen tomorrow than we have all year.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Another no huddle bonus
Along with tiring their big heavy guys and lot allowing them to get into their depth, our lighter, quicker o-line should hold up much better (endurance-wise) at a break-neck pace. However, this does mean less rest for our pitiful defense.
>>---l>
I know that was sarcasm
but I clicked that link praying to God that that wasn’t a real sight made by some idiot fans.
Don't feel bad, I also checked it out beforehand to make sure it's a dead site.
It is a site I have mentioned a couple of times now as a joke, but I have gotten some nasty comments from a couple of readers who did not understand my depraved sense of humor, so maybe it’s not as funny as I thought.
Oh well, like my dear old sweet soft spoken grandmother used to say,
“F*ck ‘em if they can’t take a joke.”
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
???
Did you buy www.firebobbybowden.com?
Just for giggles, i typed it in, and it links to the “Enough is Enough” article.
We are going to win tomorrow night.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
No, we're not.
From an intangles standpoint, this team is not going to be good handling adversity the rest of the season.
That means:
- If we get behind early, we’ll lose If our defense gives up a big play, that will have a dramatic psychogical effect and we will lose
-
- If we have early red zone failure, we will lose If the game is extremely tight late, we will lose.
-
A team with a fragile psyche will find a way to lose more times than not. And that is the very definition of our team.
38-21 Heels.
Well now negative Nelly.
Great points, I just have a good feeling about tomorrow night.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
UNC lost to UVA, we have much hope.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
Wait a second
didn’t UVA lose to William and Mary?
they had to win some game
UNC cant win them all.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
We had good results on the RB screen last game...
although it was called back on the bogus holding call. I agree though Frank Jimbo’s ignorance to the proper time to call the screen is inexcusable. There is no way he should be the head coach next year ;)
Not brain cancer
Quinn had a tumor but it was benign. Not trying to be a pain in the ass, but rather, just clarify.
On the road, cool crisp night , FSU offense will show just how good it really is...
I expect BYU type #s. Sometimes I think we do better on the road because the team can mentally “leave the turmoil” in Tallahassee….
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
Sarcasm?
BYU’s D was 67th, UNC’s is 10th, and that’s adjusted for competition so it’s no joke. 3 TD’s and a FG here is a win for the offense.

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