Florida State Film Review: Seminole Offense @ North Carolina Tar Heel Defense
Welcome to another edition of Florida State Film Review! For the 2nd week in a row, I'm not breaking down the defense on a play-by-play basis because they are so poorly coached I cannot discern what they are attempting to do from play to play. Maybe I'll look at the defense Tuesday, but it is my honest evaluation that this defense is one of the worst in the country, even when adjusting for competition level. Instead, let's discuss one of the top offenses in the country. Today we have 7 exciting film clips and some photos as well. Continue reading and check it out!
And of course, if you enjoyed this, spread it around to your friends! We recently hit One Million visitors, and pieces like this are a reason why. Our staff puts a lot of work into these, and all 'Nole fans should see them. So spread it around.
Let's review just how impressive FSU's victory was:
Florida State traveled to face off against one of the finest defenses and worst offenses in the country. North Carolina's defense came into the game ranked 10th, their offense 99th. FSU's offense entered the game ranked 8th, their defense 101st. Florida State knew coming into the game that reaching 24 points would be a huge accomplishment against the ferocious North Carolina defense that features multiple future early NFL draft picks. It would be up to FSU's defense to make UNC's horrible offense look, well, horrible. Of course, FSU's defense allowed UNC to roll up 17 1st half points and to score another TD on their first 2nd half drive. FSU was down 24-6 to one of college football's best defenses.
And while FSU was setting up plays for the 2nd half and feeling out what could work, FSU's horrific defense let UNC's pitiful offense run up and down the field.
Let's use a quick chart to put this in perspective. Just how good was FSU's performance? To find out, you must compare it to the other teams who played the Heels:
| Team v. UNC's Defense -ranked 10th |
at UCONN | ECU | at Gtech | UVA | Florida State |
| Rank of Offense | 49 | 62 | 2 | 56 | 8 |
| Plays | 61 | 61 | 77 | 68 | 65 |
| Yards Per Play Allowed | 3.2 | 4 | 5.2 | 3.8 | 6.7 |
| Rushes | 31 | 28 | 65 | 37 | 23 |
| Yards/ Rush Allowed | 3.3 | 2.6 | 5 | 3.7 | 2.3 |
| Passing Plays | 30 | 33 | 12 | 31 | 41 |
| Yards/ Pass Play Allowed | 3.1 | 5.3 | 6.9 | 3.8 | 9.2 |
- Yards-Per-Play is used because it is the best standard measure of defense. Total yards is moronic (please don't try to argue this, just use the search feature at right). It really isn't the fault of the defense if the offense allows the opponent to get 17 possessions or take the ball in UNC's red zone three times in a contest. How many snaps did you have, what did you do with them (or allow your opponent to do with theirs). Simple enough.
- Sacks have been re-allocated to Passing plays (since they are the result of a failed passing play and not a run play)
- Kneel-Downs are not included as they are not a competitive play.
- Carolina's defense hasn't allowed anyone to gain more than 5.2 yards per play. FSU put up 6.7 yards per play. Doesn't seem like much? Think again. Florida State gained 30% more yards per play than anyone else had on the Tar Heel's defense. And they did it in North Carolina, on a Thursday night.
- 1st team to crack 410 yards against UNC’s defense (438), and did it IN NORTH CAROLINA. Georgia Tech had 406, but they did it in Atlanta, and did it on 85 plays. FSU did it on 15 fewer plays. That's about 20% fewer snaps for FSU, but a lot more yards and as shown above, a lot more yards per play.
- 1st team to put 30 points on UNC’s defense and did it IN NORTH CAROLINA.
So yes, on a Thursday night, Florida State went into the house of one of the best defenses in the country, got down by 18 points by allowing one of the worst offenses in the nation to set season-highs. Then with UNC knowing they would have to pass, they did just that. And did it again and again and again. Florida State obliterated the even the worst numbers that Carolina's stellar defense had allowed all season. The 'Noles put up 30% more yards per play than anyone else had against the Tar Heels, and they did it in Chapel Hill, on a Thursday Night. The credit goes to Jimbo Fisher's halftime adjustments and Christian Ponder's once again excellent play.
Seminoles vs Tar Heels boxscore (Note, this isn't adjusted for sacks of kneeldowns, etc)
What did we learn?
If you don't think FSU is one of the best 5 offenses in the country, you need to wake up. Think a bit smarter and realize the opponent quality when you look at the production. FSU didn't get cupcakes this year.
- No offense has scored more points against Miami than FSU.
- Florida State's 54 points against BYU is 20 more than the next closest effort by any other team against the Cougars.
- Fisher's offense dropped 44 on Georgia Tech; no other team has even cracked 35 on the Jackets, and the one who cracked 30 was Mississippi State who did it in garbage time (31 points).
- And you saw the figures from above. FSU put up 30% more yards per play than anyone else did against UNC. And of course they set new season highs for points allowed and yards allowed by UNC.
I'll give a brief overview of the drive and include clips or pictures where relevant.
Drive #1
McMahon continues to have high snaps. 1st play of game. Also, poor pitch relationship between givens and thomas on 2nd down reverse (loss of 10). 3rd and 18 bubble is safe. possible big play and no disaster
Drive #2
Motion Jermaine Thomas out wide is good, gives ponder coverage look, goes from I-form to basically 4 wide. UNC played the spread sets very very conservatively early, counting on their front-4. They had no idea how to react to Thomas motioning wide from I-form. Nice use of pistol formation, lots of things happening. Bubble look to strong, slant weakside w/ Thomas also releasing weak. Hard to align v. pistol.
Then FSU comes out in I-formation twins, carolina has 8 in the box, clearly cover-3 as fsu motions to the weakside. This is cool:
Run-action holds the linebackers, and Zebrie Sanders and David Spurlock slip out to block for Bert reed. This is an excellent use of personnel as FSU is a great screen team due to their athletic offensive linemen. Sander's doesn't nail his block, but this is a very good play to have in the repertoire and is an appropriate counter to teams running lots of cover-3 with 8 in the box against standard personnel. This is a play that fsu can hit for long yardage on 1st downs. Also, look for the Noles to run it to Datko/Hudson's side later.
The bubble screen that reed fumbled/ didn't catch was the correct read by ponder. Owens just missed his block. That's not a call, but rather a check by ponder. against teams playing very loose cover-3 with 8 in the box against twins, fsu will need to continue to throw these. it's simply a regulator.
Bert Reed had a false start which is just not acceptable. poor concentration by the wideouts in the 1st half. (missed block by Owens, false start, etc). And the drive stalls. Pretty good drive against UNC's D.
Drive # 3
(Ponder sacked & fumbled). Arm might have been going forward. Spurlock lunged, and Zebrie got beat to the inside. More on them later. Datko also allowed pressure there. Not a good play, but remember, UNC was going to get a few of those.
Drive #4:
Zone read, very well blocked by 4 of 5, but spurlock not a great cut and his man makes a phenomenal crawling play to trip up thomas. Play had nice potential. Oh and Thomas didn't run real hard on it. Loss of 1. Here's the photo:
The man circled in yellow crawls at light-speed and makes the tackle.
Then FSU hits a 60+ yard play that is called back for an illegal block. Middle screen picture:
Just a step beyond the line. play isn't a penalty if he is 18 inches back. Negates gain of 65 yards. The rule is clear, you cannot block downfield for a pass thrown beyond the line of scrimmage.
Drive # 5:
Pistol Thomas for 4, inside zone. 5 good blocks, held the backside. drew unc offisdes. picked up 2nd and 2 with a 3 yard outside zone run to the right. good blocks, some movement. bert reed good effort on block but tough to block a big backer. Nice protection on the 13 yard slant to Fortson who did a nice job to get the YAC. Option look from off-set pistol, Ponder gets 3 but doesn't pitch the ball like he should (this might be fake option). Fortson has a bad drop on a slant. FSU has to have that. He's open, he's a big body, and he must catch the damn football. drew them offsides again, so from 3rd and 7 to 3rd and 2. Ponder hesitated and didn't hit owens on the 3rd and 2 rollout, his scramble didn't get there. punt.
Drive # 6
Pistol, Bubble. Slightly late as Ponder couldn't grip the ball. Excellent throw and catch on a tight window slant to Owens who gets 8 more yards and gets out of bounds. Fake draw fake end around and toss it to givens for 2 or 3. Good play to show it and kep them honest. Then came a beautiful play: JIMBO FISHER SMASH CLIP.
This is known as the smash. The outside receiver runs a curl and the slot receiver runs a corner route. The QB reads the defender. If the defender plays the curl, the QB throws the Corner. If the defender plays off, the QB throws the Curl. It's quite the cat and mouse game between QB and cornerback, and Ponder plays to win. Beautiful ball and great job getting the foot down by Bert Reed.
So 1st and goal. Reliford misses his block on the qb wrap. in any case, Commack lined up incorrectly, so even if FSU had scored, he would have nullified it. Lack of attention to detail. Coaches were livid. On 2nd and goal, they had the delay. Why? Apparently Bobby didn't realize last year's clock rules, thought clock stopped after a penalty. It doesn't. Assistant coaches can't call timeout, only the head coach, and he was nowhere to be seen. The FSU played it safer and got the FG before half.
At the half, I did not think FSU's offense was getting owned. They were facing a very good defense that had made a few great plays and fsu's offense was just a hair off. the unperfect cut block, a high snap, a drop, a receiver running inside instead of out, etc. There was no absurd physical domination going on. For the most part, FSU had seen a lot of formations to stop the run and the deep ball, giving FSU the short stuff to the outside, which Ponder patiently took. Also, Fisher was setting up some stuff for later.
Florida State began to pound the flats. They got into the Pistol and ran the ball with their zone blocking schemes. They made UNC make tackles in space. They did everything to negate UNC's great size. Amazingly, they repeatedly ran 5-man protections (no tight ends or backs blocking) and did very well with it. The line beautifully handled UNC's defensive line in pass protection and gave Ponder the time he needed to through all of his reads.
Drive # 7
Start out with an inside zone to the weak side. Spurlock doesn't get his cutoff. Pryor runs hard for 1 or 2. Swing to Lonnie sets up 3rd and 3. Throw was low. On 3rd and 3, Thomas can't come up with a well placed throw to the outside, though it was a tough catch. Punt coming.
Drive # 8
Came out in 4-wide gun, protection was excellent, Carolina played soft coverage, easy 7 yards to Owens on a hitch. On 2nd and 5, FSU runs their staple, the Smash, and Ponder overthrows it. It was open, Easterling ran a good route. Maybe the only blatantly bad throw Ponder made. You can see Ponder tell Easterling "My Bad." On 3rd and 5 UNC drops 8 into coverage and Ponder hits Owens on a 7 yard hitch. Good patience, good route. No pass pressure from UNC at all on the drive so far. 1-10 and FSU went high-tempo, Outside Zone run to Thomas from the Pistol. NIce blocks from Hudson and McMahon. UNC's front is very good and to get a 10 yard run there was very good. Thomas seemed to run harder after midway through the 2nd. Beautiful flare throw to Thomas for 9. No pressure from UNC, and they are clearly worried about the deep outside now. The middle of the field will be open later in the game. Foreshadowing duh duh duh. On 2nd and 1, Datko gets beat inside and Thompson can't pick up the first down from the gun. Datko's excellent in pass protection but he sometimes struggles in run blocking. On 3rd and short, FSU doesn't screw around and they quickly sneak for the first. On the 1st, FSU is in the gun and there's a lot to see here. Let's go to the tape:
UNC switched into a 3 man line with 4 linebacker types. They zone blitz at the snap, sending 5 rushers and dropping 2 people into coverage, a linebacker and a lineman. FSU's motion is like their 2-back sweep, but UNC is in full-blitz mode and they do not care. Thomas gets an incredible block, but there's one too many to the right side with the overload. FSU's line is trying to shield left but the blitz is coming from the right. Ponder eludes the guy and throws to Fortson who has done a nice job of beating his man and coming back for the ball, but he drops it. That's his 2nd crucial drop this game. Remember too that he has the sloppy screen route leading to the penalty.
So 2nd and 10. Remember when I said the middle of the field would be open later because FSU had run the smash route so well? Yeah, that's now:
Ponder identifies the cover-2, you can see the checks he makes at the line. The 3 middle defenders drop into their zones, while the two safeties each play a deep half. The linebacker does a nice job to funnel Reed to the sideline, expecting the Smash route (Reed running the corner). But this is no corner route. Reed runs the square in, and Ponder rifles it. It's not a great throw, but considering the dropsies the wideouts have had, it was nice of Reed to catch this one. The window between the linebackers is open and you can see it. Also, the protection is great. Nobody near Ponder.
On the resulting 1st down, FSU expects the safety to cheat to the inside more, because of the previous play. And he's just not cheated enough. The ball is thrown a bit high and the coverage is good. Incomplete. On 2nd down, FSU runs the givens end around action, fakes it to Thomas, looks at Givens, but it's a screen! It gets 7 or 8 yards and I like the call. Thought Hudson released a bit early and was overanxious. You know he wants that cut on that corner again. On 3rd and 3, FSU calls the QB draw. The look is crucial:
Notice how the linebackers are peeling to defend the bubble screen to either side. Ponder gets an easy 10.
On 1st and goal, Easterling can't cleanly catch the bubble but does get 1 or 2 yards. The 2nd and goal is 5 wide double slants. Good routes and a good throw for the TD, 13-24.
Drive # 9:
98 yard TD to Owens. This is a hitch-n-go set up by the hitch after hitch FSU threw earlier. It was a 6 man protection, and UNC rushed with 5. Excellent protection and a nice throw from the end zone.
Drive # 10:
Ponder starts to abuse UNC. They tried to cover Bert Reed with a backup linebacker, and that's just not possible. Perfect pass pro. Fortson gets called for a hold on a bubble to Easterling (I think Easty is on his way back, by the way). Bad luck on a middle screen to Easterling as UNC twisted into it. On a 3rd and 7, Ponder hits Owens for a 15 yard post. No idea what coverage UNC was playing. I suspect that backup linebacker blew the coverage. Here you go:
On the next play, UNC is really desperate to make something happen. They are hyper-aggressive. FSU had done a good job running from the Pistol, and Fisher made a masterful call: Pistol play-action Owens Deep Out:
Watch how hard everyone from UNC pursues what they think is a run play. Ponder had his choice of 3 open receivers. The next play is a 9 yard inside zone out of the Pistol. McMahon does an okay job to hold his line. The Thompson runs again for 9, same play, just flipped. Pretty simple stuff.
On the next play, however, McMahon gets blown away and it leads to a 6 yard loss. Drive killer? Maybe.
So on 2nd and 13, Fisher dials up a GREAT play. Throwback tight end screen. FSU executes it perfectly, but Reliford forgets one thing- to use his blockers. He cuts outside and is impatient. Look at what could happen had he been patient:
Bert made a great catch to get FSU into better field goal range, and Hopkins hits it, 23-24.
Drive # 11:
Down, 27-23, Ponder hits Fortson on a deep skinny off a beautiful double release, off play-action. Then Ponder to Fortson on the auto-rollout w/ the off-sides for 10. Then the go-ahead TD:
Initially, I thought Reliford was Ponder's 4th read. In actuality, he seems to be his 2nd read. Ponder's pump fake makes 3 people cover Fortson on the skinny post and nobody is on Reliford for the wide open wheel route. This throw is more difficult than you probably realize. Ponder throws it from the opposite hash. Even though Reliford is essentially a basketball player, even he can catch this ball. The protection was very good as well. Kudos, offensive line.
Drive: # 12 let's close out the game.
Pistol Play-action bootleg to Reed for 4. UNC expected run. Corner remembered being burned by Owens before so he peeled off deep. Reed nice job to stay inbounds. Bubble to Owens for 5.5 Ponder sneak 1st down.
I-Formation, end around action to Chris Thompson for 1. Didn't like getting into the I-formation here. Not at all. One of the lone criticisms I have. Then FSU gets back in the run and runs a great play:
This is essentially play-action QB wrap. FSU is pulling the right tackle, #77 Zebrie Sanders. Ponder fakes the lead sweep, and is going to keep the ball. Excellent job by sanders to blast #52, who was certainly in the backfield much sooner than he expected. Excellent reaction. The rest is Ponder getting 6-7 yards to build momentum before getting the 1st down, which killed more clock.
Back in the I-formation, don't like it. Thompson for 3. FSU not a good I-formation team. 2nd and 7, qb draw for 2. 3rd and 5, QB draw from 5 wide. Eh. Punt, UNC has little time and they can't throw.
Overall Review
Ponder is simply amazing. I'll have an article on him tomorrow. The only QB who is on his level right now is Jimmy Claussen. Fisher called him the best QB in the country. Jake Locker has better physical talents but a ten-cent head right now. McCoy doesn't quite have the wheels or the arm and McCoy looks to the sidelines for his checks. Ponder calls his own game and checks. Tebow might be playing himself out of the draft. Mallet has the huge arm but not the accuracy or intelligence. And Bradford has a bum wing. Sam is brittle. Fisher gives him 3 plays and he checks the offense into the most favorable before the snap. That's a huge advantage. Few teams in college can do that. Ponder showed good arm strength and seems to be all the way back from his knee injury. His throws were on the money at a ridiculous clip. He took very few risks. Nary a ball was close to being intercepted.
It was a miraculous comeback for Florida State and the star was Christian Ponder. The Junior quarterback went 33-40 for 395 yards and 3 Touchdowns with zero interceptions. He was pinpoint and could have easily thrown for 450 yards had he not been victimized by 3 drops and an offensive pass interference call. Ponder might be the best quarterback in the country. You'd be hard-pressed to find one who is playing better. Considering the opponent and situation, Ponder's performance was one for the ages. He posted a QB rating of 190 (NFL equivalent of 133). Ponder finished the game 16-16 for 236 yards.
Jermaine Thomas should probably get the ball more. He has good hands and does a nice job running, but he and all of the backs must run harder. Still, Thomas never lost yards. Chris Thompson for the most part ran hard in the 2nd half. Both backs did a nice job in their blitz pickup. I am not impressed those two or Pryor when it comes to run blocking. I pretty much hate Pryor in the fullback spot. Fisher knows more than me, by a ton, but he needs to quit using Pryor at fullback. He's just not a good player at that spot.
Receivers Rod Owens and Bert Reed has big games. Owens with his 9 catch 199 yard night. Owens was targeted 10 times. He caught 9 balls. 8 of those were successes. 7 of the successes went for a 1st down or a touchdown. His catches were meaningful. Reed was targeted 10 times. He caught 8 balls. 5 of the 8 were not what I consider a "success", but some were tough yards. 3 were very successful. He also made some very tough catches. 74 yards total. Reed also had a false start! Easterling wasn't thrown to much, but he did draw coverage and did his job. His TD catch was nice, and he didn't flinch much knowing he could get hit big. Fortson showed his flashes of brilliance but balanced those with some untimely drops. He caught 4 balls for 56 yards. 3 of the catches were very big. But he was also called for a hold, dropped 2 balls, and his imprecise route on his middle screen was inexcusable. Fortson can be a huge weapon and is the most talented offensive player outside Ponder, but he is maddeningly inconsistent.
As for the offensive line. I thought they played well. Again, consider what they were asked to do and against whom they were asked to perform. UNC's front-7 is exceptional. Anyone watching them play could see that. On 42 passing plays, FSU allowed a sack on only 2. That's a stellar 4.8% sack rate allowed. FSU trailed for 55 of the 60 minutes in this game, and UNC knew they would pass and pass. That makes the line's play all the more impressive. Oh, and FSU often left no backs or tight ends in to protect. Left Tackle Andrew Datko is always technically sound and plays a good game. His pass protection was good. I bet he graded out highly. On the inside zone play to his side, Datko does a nice job of influencing his man and then removing him. He's not impressive physically and needs to be more aggressive, but there isn't a better true sophomore I've seen. Rodney Hudson is rock solid. I love to watch him play. He'll play a perfect game before all is over. Center Ryan McMahon played a much better game than I expected. His pass protection was good. Spurlock is aggressive as always. He mixes great blocks with whiffs. I give him high marks for his work against 1st round lock Marvin Austin. Zebrie continues to improve and you should remember he is a true sophomore. I wish I could give Sanders some of Spurlock's aggressiveness. Sanders must get better at cutting the backside on the run plays.
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117 comments
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Comments
Bobby is responsible for Ponder's success
Therefore I heart Bobby
Just noticed:
Nigel Carr is a fan of TN on facebook. =]
by pillsburysoldier on Oct 26, 2009 2:27 AM EDT reply actions
Carr, if you're reading this
Holy cow man, we need more players with your fire! Keep it up!!
by pillsburysoldier on Oct 26, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Superb work, Bud (the norm).
-On the first video from the 2nd drive, it looks like Bert could’ve used Zebrie as a pick (since Sanders didn’t engage the block) and ran outside for a huge gain. That would’ve been improvising, however, as the play was likely designed inside.
-I was also pleasantly surprised to see McMahon not blown up much at all. I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but it looked like our guards took on UNC’s tackles head up with Ryan sliding over to help most of the time. I ate a little crow late Thursday.
-I really wish Rod could’ve stretched out the ball for 1 more yard or been rewarded an extra yard on the long TD, raising his game total to a more visually pleasing 200. 200! I feel great for that kid. He’s nowhere near the blocker that Parker was, but he runs his routes exceptionally and catches the ball without fear this year. Also gotta love the lack of excessive celebration penalty after unquestionably the greatest play of his football career. I guess that’s why they call him Old School.
-We were also ticked about the I-formation plays at the end of our last drive. Go for the dagger, Jimbo. The defense sucks, so give them less opportunities to suck. My friend thought the “bubble pump fake and go” would’ve been sneaky good during that last set of downs. Risky, but nasty if it panned out. Referring to the play where Smurf was 20 yards behind the secondary against Chattanooga last year.
-People in the stands were yelling “Stupid play call! What are we doing!” after Reliford lost yards on that failed screen. If only they knew.
-Awesome clip of Zebrie picking up the linebacker on Ponder’s big 1st down run. Details, details, details.
-Taiwan is a hell of a team player. He’s not getting numbers but he’s helping us score points nonetheless.
-Love seeing some Chris Thompson out there. On that video of the Fortson drop, look how #23 running from the shotgun into a pattern up the seam. We’re gonna get a sick mismatch one game and hit Chris for a homerun before the season is done. I feel it.
-Will Cam Wade have a scholarship next year? We noticed that Commack had at least 5 snaps during significant parts of the game (we have no garbage time, considering our defense). 87 has no place in Jimbo’s offense.
-Thank goodness you didn’t break down the D. From the stands, it’s 10 times worse than on TV. During the timeouts, we get to see the maddening personal decisions well before the horrified FSU fans on their couches.
-I’ll talk D for just one moment:
Bud and others, how do you feel about this? Let’s assume the defensive line play, especially the ends, is a complete loss for 2009. How about starting Mincey and Dawkins at the end spots and doing crazy stuff on the interior. Hell, put White in there like Everette Brown did at times last years. This might be a terrible idea, but terrible is a step up at this point.
Well, could it really get much worse?
I’m all for doing something unorthodox on defense. I just don’t think Mickey would do it. It is still stunning to me that Korey Mangum starts. Line up White at OLB some, run some 4-2-5 if Dekoda isn’t healthy, prowler in passing situations, literally anything we can do that would be an extra wrinkle. It doesn’t matter if we execute it perfectly, and realistically, we won’t.
>>---l>
-On the first video from the 2nd drive, it looks like Bert could’ve used Zebrie as a pick (since Sanders didn’t engage the block) and ran outside for a huge gain. That would’ve been improvising, however, as the play was likely designed inside.
I was wondering about this also. It seems like Sanders kind of ran himself out of the play. If he had run about 1 yard less and got himself ready to block Reed wouldn’t have been touched. I hadn’t thought about Reed not cutting correctly on this play.
Looking at it again it looks like Sanders has outside position and expected Reed to go up the sidelines. He runs almost parallel to the LOS to get into that position. I’m thinking this is on Reed. You’re right a cut to the inside and jumping outside would have set up this block perfectly.
-I was also pleasantly surprised to see McMahon not blown up much at all. I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but it looked like our guards took on UNC’s tackles head up with Ryan sliding over to help most of the time. I ate a little crow late Thursday.
-Awesome clip of Zebrie picking up the linebacker on Ponder’s big 1st down run. Details, details, details.
Good job by the whole line here. Spurlock gets a very nice seal on the OLB to force the MLB to come across the field to make that tackle. McMahon stones Cam Thomas. Thomas was looking for a hold but McMahon had his arms outside which is what prevented Thomas from peeling off, not a hold.
I thought it was on Reed live also. Ya gotta set your T up when he’s trying to block a CB. Reed is really bad w/ this. You see it when they try the reverse w/ him which I hope that experiment is over. Is Givens a Jr or Sr? Reed has made more progress than any other receiver though. Has made himself into a really good possession receiver. Same sort of inconsistency you see w/ all our receivers. Just not really understanding the game in a holistic sense yet. Thankfully CP does and Reed, Easterling, Fortson, and Reliford are just Sophs.
Givens is a Sr. but they are trying to get him 1 more year.
We’ve seen how that’s worked out for us the last couple years….
Thats on sanders
Offensive lineman are always coached to cut dbs down. They arent athletic enough to dance with them so get your butt out there and cut him down. If sanders Cuts his guy down the same way spurlock does then bert is running straight up the seam those two make.
Greg Reid
So I’m assuming it was a typo when you said “Reid also had a false start” but it got me thinking and I don’t really remember Reid doing much this game. It was late when i watched this (dvr) so I may have been too tired to notice. Is he playing much?
He had a couple tackles
and a decent punt return or 2. But no he didn’t do anything spectacular on Defense.
made a takle to force a 3rd down...
for our defense that is pretty umm…‘spectacular.’ Oh if only that was funny…
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Oct 26, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
he got stiff armed to the dirt one good time!!
by noleinvaldosta on Oct 27, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Illegal Block
The rule is actually that the pass can’t be thrown beyond the neutral zone, which is generally interpreted as within one yard of the LOS. In 99% of cases, that is a legal block. Fortson ran it exactly as he was taught to — one step forward with his outside foot, come down the LOS and make the catch. It should not have been called.
Watching UNC's D gave me flashbacks to the Nole Ds of the 90s.
They always had an outstanding convergence to the ball. Every time a Nole ball-handler was tackled, he would disappear in a sea of blue.
formations
Didnt like running the pony or the I formation. Its like telling the Def where we are going. More 4wr or 3 with a TE FSU needs to drop the FB and pick up 2 or 3 more TE. We only need 4-5 RB and 5-6 TE.
The Def did what we needed them to do they dont need to stop teams on every drive because they cant but they need to get a few to help out the offense just enough to out score teams.
The Pistal I like it. Ponder doesnt need to take another snap this year under center. Even goaline I want him in shotgun.
Trick plays. UNC has them and so many other teams too. We need to make sure we contan. Keep them DE and OLB at home. they get sucked in and therea 15yrds.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Right the defense made a few stops
But it was vs the # 101 offense in the land
Buck Fobby
by stevegrizzle on Oct 26, 2009 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
But, but, but...Bobby's back, baby!
I heard the whole “defense looked great in the second half” gloss all weekend long. I tried to interject facts into the conversation and that didn’t go over too well. These same people are going to be calling for Jimbo’s head after Spiller gets done with our D and special teams in a couple of weeks.
It’s like most of our fans were pulled from a Monty Python skit.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
by O-Town Nole on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont get how people can call for jimbos head because the Def sucks
Jimbo does not have anything to do with the Def.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Jimbo does have something to do with the Defense
Wasn’t Jimbo that one that got Greg Ried to come to FSU? Is so, Jimbo should be getting praise for helping the defense.
I think more people are upset about FSU getting into goal line situations and having issues. They had them again this game although it doesn’t seem like it was Jimbo’s fault. The average fan isn’t going to take the time to understand that or the fact that the process on the offense is correct and the results are more likely outliers than the norm.
people assume the HCIW has more power than he does
by jasonole59 on Oct 26, 2009 11:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They think Jimbo runs the show and Bobby does nothing
Unless we win. Then its all Bobby.
Thanks for the video clips
Looking, rewinding, and rewatching… that made your analysis easier to follow, and I learned quite a bit. Excellent job, and thanks.
I was pissed at the time and even more pissed now that I see the replay. On the 2nd drive weakside screen (1st video) that was a great call and play.
Spurlock destroyed his man and if Sanders gets his block, Reed goes for 6 because there was no one left to stop him. Beautiful play calling and we need this one at least once or twice per game.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Completely agree
That play could have been perfect. It reminds you of how fragile a game is when a single missed block or on the Fortson 60 yarder called back, a matter of inches in one direction or another can change the entire complexion of the game.
Yeah its a cool looking play.
Seems dangerous though, Ponder has to turn his shoulder and throw it right away… what are the chances of a CB sitting on it and picking it off for 6?
"I'm falling apart, I'm barely breathing, With a broken heart thats still beating, In the pain is the healing, in Your Name I find meaning, So I'm holdin' on.. holdin' on to you."
NM posted that before I thought the play and formations through.
"I'm falling apart, I'm barely breathing, With a broken heart thats still beating, In the pain is the healing, in Your Name I find meaning, So I'm holdin' on.. holdin' on to you."
Yeah I suppose that's possible
But if it were to happen that CB would have to have UNREAL awareness or just plain dumb luck. With the type of awareness Ponder has been playing with he’d probably notice that flash of blue (or whatever color the opposing team is wearing) when he turns around.
My favorite play was the one that didn't work
Throwback screen to Reliford. BEAUTIFUL call. That play can be so successful. 2nd favorite play was the wheel to Beau for the touchdown because Ponder went through all of his progressions and found the right guy.
>>---l>
Hot Damn Ponder is good
His numbers over the last two games are sick yo, SICK!!!!
drizzle daddy wuz here
Observations from a educated and intelligent Noles fan about last Thursday's game
If there was any doubt as to the fact that this is actually two completely separate teams in action every Saturday, let me bang home the point with what we witnessed at UNC. After ingesting more than our fair share of Carolina barbeque and down home sweet tea, we meandered into the stadium a mite earlier than is typical even for us. First on the field was Jimbo and the QB’s. While they were going through an impressive rapid-fire series of drills, Trickett and Dawsey and the lilliputian Dex led the untaped OL, RB’s and the WR’s and punt and KO specialists through their paces. Every drill was purposeful and closely monitored. Granted this is all before the jerseys are on and the official team warm-ups began. In fact, the Nole offense were the only players from either side on the field.
During this period, Chuck Amato was working the stands, gladhanding every alumni with a decent 401k in the vicinity. He continued jawjacking until about 35 minutes before kickoff and not coincidentally, his LB’s were the last ones out of the locker room. Odell was standing alone leaning against a wall for 45 minutes, and Jody Allen was literally in the stands eight rows in front of us sharing some laughs with family or friends in attendance. I say this just to point out the incredible dichotomy between our two units. One is meticulously prepared and focused to details, and the other is the 107th ranked unit in college football and well…not well coached.
I know this comes as no suprise to us but if the rest of Nole Nation had any idea it would make things so much easier.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Oct 26, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
As someone who was there...
and also down by the hedges watching the pregame activities… Chuck Amato and Jody Allen may of been shaking hands but it well before the time frame listed here. NONE of the coaches were near the barriers within an hour of kickoff. This bashing of every little thing is pointless and childish. YES, we get it… the Defense stinks. Chuck Amato is not the same person he was before he went to NC State. There needs to be and will be changes. I have never seen people more pissed off that we WON the game. I will say this, it was nice to see the FSU section cheering EVERYBODY and the Bobby chant as he was leaving the field was nice… that is an opinion from a lifelong fan.
You claim you were there, but did you even watch the game?
We should have lost. The only reason we won was because of Ponder, great offensive play calling, and a miraculous 18 point comeback against a top-10 defense.
If fans were chanting BB as he was leaving, those are fans that are a) too dumb to know what’s going on, 2) too stoned or wasted to care, or d) so enthralled by the miraculous comeback victory that they had a temporary lapse in judgment. Cheering for BB at this point will only embolden him.
They did cheer for Bowden...
and I think the reason was a combination of the things you mentioned. There was a small Jimbo counter-chant and Ponder got some love as well.
Just to give some more info to compliment RaysnNoles, Tricket was working hard with the O-line as well up till about 20 minutes before game time. I didn’t see any of the D coaches but they could have been on the other side of the field.
by Darkhorse99 on Oct 26, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you see the difference in injuries also
Haven’t systematically examined this but seems like the D has at least 2x as many injuries as the O, despite what feels like the O being on the field for 3x as many plays. This includes season ending and “nicked up” where you miss a few games or play hurt. Most injuries come from being tired which, of course, goes back to conditioning. I bet the O is out early and staying late for practice too.
Well the other issue is depth
We’ve lost Caz on offense and a few wideouts for portions of games or a game or two. On D, they lost some DT’s. Perhaps the depth is just much worse on defense?
by Bud Elliott on Oct 26, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the depth is certainly an issue
As good and reliable as Caz is, on offense we can call plays that adjust for that loss but Reliford also brings an athleticism Caz just doesn’t have. On Defense, really regardless of talent we can’t afford to be missing bodies on the field. Sadly it doesn’t seem to matter.
Yeah... it's a shame those lifelong Nole fans have to wait 3 weeks before they can post on a message board.
Since they can’t add anything to the conversation after a loss.
Oh... "sweety."
My sincerest apologies. I didn’t realize the Mrs. was using wolfbird’s SN today.
Hey baby, see you next Tuesday.
I've set the bar too high, apparently.
That’s my bad, Matt.
by The K-Man on Oct 26, 2009 1:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
at any rate...
saw the post on twitter, so I am not sure what publication it was in, but there was an interesting article on the various message boards related to college football and how different/similar they are. Our beloved site was mentioned more than once. The author was Ted Sheckler. I guess a google search would bring it up. Interesting guy with a unique take on what drives this stuff.
Reminds me of the Bobby daisy chain cumming out of the tunnel.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
was here after BC, not GT
That is when I was away… then, well… not much news leading up to NC. It was good to get away and just “ponder” things. There can still be a positive season… and I just wonder how many of these fans here want that. If we upset Florida, and the way they are playing, ??? stranger things have happened, and we could be 8-4, and hell, sine I am dreaming, ACC Title game is still up for grabs, 9-4. It’s a game at a time. I hate the negativity and we all know what is going to happen, it’s the WHEN that seems to bunch everyone’s shorts. The Bob Davie interview was very interesting and I agreed with it. I think that is what 90% of the fans and public believe, I am just saying it here and in my own name. whatever…
You say negativity
I say reality.
Some of us like to live in a realistic life, not walk through life with unrealistic expectations.
www.twitter.com/fsumatthunter
I dont see the negativity you speak of
When people say we’re ranked below 100 on defense its the truth. We have talented DE’s and LB’s that play terribly. We have one of the worst defense’s in the country LITERALLY. There are more than 100 teams in the nation that can say definitively that they play better defense than FSU. As a lifelong fan you should be disgusted. I know I am. Doesn’t mean I don’t want us to win, It doesn’t mean I root AGAINST FSU. It simply means I’m disgusted and want the clown show to stop asap. With our current defensive coaching staff we’re ruining young men’s careers and lives. That’s a fact. Not every DE that comes along is an Everette Brown that can outshine that mediocrity coached to him by one awfully unqualified Jody Allen. A kid like Markus White should be coached by someone that knows what he’s doing. Brandon Jenkins as the talent to be a Freshman All-ACC type player but he’s coached to suck. We get angry here because we know how good our team could be and are anxious to see some of our All-American talent get coached by All-American coaches.
Ignorance is bliss, I guess
If you don’t like these newfangled ideas like “facts” and “statistics” and “objectivity” then this probably isn’t the place for you.
>>---l>
Y'all stop with the negativity [facts] and
let’s talk about the good ole days and how nice a man Bobby Bowden is [feelings]. I hear his wife, Ann, makes a lovely Banana Pudding. Even puts chocolate chip cookies in it… mmmmm…
You can't measure heart, passion and gritiness
I think Bobby’s are at an all time high right now
CP7, Please do not go Pro
I'm sorry but people being mad THAT we won is not the issue here
The fact of the matter is, looking at the big picture victories could hurt much needed progress. All of us are FSU fans to the core which is why we spend all day on TN and other nole sites. We are obsessed with FSU football and want what is BEST for FSU football. None of us root against FSU, we simply have the ability to form thoughts that are concerned with both long and short term goals. If you aren’t simply amazed at how bad our defense plays, even in victory, thats your business. I’m beginning to think that you may be a masochist, because as much as you complain about the comments made here, you come back to read and reply to them everyday.
yes, watched the game, thanks for asking.
ok… every college team who won this weekend and even the NFL teams that have an OC who calls the plays and handles personnel who deserves the credit? If a defense is doing well, as ours last season made big plays aplenty and kept us in games when the offense was weak, who deserves the credit? But the mainstream media says the HEAD COACH pulled it off. Jimbo deserves great credit and I don’t know that I have ever bashed him. This is not Bowden vs Fisher cage match! By god every bad thing that happens to FSU is BB’s fault… but nothing good is ever to his credit. I don’t think the majority of the fans there were either “stoned or stupid”… it was an adult (alumni) oriented group and we sat and was very pissed at how things started, but you know, I never heard anybody give up or say “I’m outta here” as I did the USF game there at home. soooo, again, my opinion. But I am not some fool who is not around anything or when I am not tuned into what I see/hear around me. I can’t wait for the Wake Forest game (will be there) and then the contrast the next week for Maryland. I have a feeling the FSU fans I encounter will be more gung-ho in Winston-Salem than a good portion of the home crowd who you do have to wonder if they are too “stoned or dumb”
The mainstream media is also dumb
How can anything be to Bobby’s credit when he hasn’t added anything positive to the program in quite some time?
>>---l>
Exactly
What has BB contributed to the program in the last 5 years?
And if you do have an answer it better be something tangible.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Our offense was better than our defense last year
Don’t be stupid. I’ve already schooled you on this multiple times.
I'm assuming this is supposed to be a reply to my comment...
I’ve given BB credit for what is due – which is, building the program into a powerhouse and then destroying it with apathy & poor coaching hires. He’ll also get credit for a win that he realistically doesn’t deserve.
"every bad thing that happens to FSU is BB’s fault… but nothing good is ever to his credit"
Let’s break it down.
If the defense, which he’s completely responsible for keeping around in a vegetative state, shows any positive signs I’ll be glad to give Bobby credit.
If the special teams become an asset instead of a liability, I’ll give Bobby credit. He’s the one that believes in Jody Allen as our best choice to run Special Teams,coach the defensive ends, and recruit key areas of the state. Would Bob Davie hire Jody Allen and keep him tenured for a decade? Bobby will.(Maybe that’s a bad question, since Davie failed in South Bend)
I find it difficult not to blame Bobby for our de-committments and inability to lock up kids who’ve grown up Nole fans. I wouldn’t want to commit under the current circumstances. Who is my head coach and when? Who is my position coach? Who is calling the shots? Why is there so much uncertainty? Nobody does less for more money than Bobby in the recruiting world.
And why should Bobby get all the credit for offensive success? If he had his way, Jeff would still be here. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. Stumbling blindly into success has been our only option this decade.
The guy steering the ship can’t differentiate the channel from the rock jetty. Please refute my maritime analogy.
And here’s my big thing with the “Bo-bby Bow-den” chant. Why should this Play-Station All-American think he cares about me?
Bobby used to have humility and class. His legendary folksly demeanor is nothing more than a facade now. Please don’t be so foolish as to confuse his self-deprication with humility. He still self-depricates, but HE is now the only critic HE will acknowledge. He’s infallible in his head. You’ve been duped by the act.
I used to chant “Bo-bby Bow-den” because he used to care about what I thought.
P.S. – Ann, T.K., and the BOT are enablers and deserve equal blame for this nightmare. I can’t pinch myself anymore or I’ll bleed to death.
by The K-Man on Oct 26, 2009 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I beleive special teams has improved over last year.
FSU finished 62nd nationally in FPE in 2008.
We were 7th going into the UNC game.
Jody Allen is a clown who should be fired, I am just saying ST has improved.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Having Greg Reid couldn't have hurt....
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
It sure doesn't hurt
But his numbers are on par with what we had last year.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
They score
And then we run the kick off to the 20+…
Dustin is also having to use his monster leg to kick these ugly ass ducks so that the other team can’t set up their blocking.
If odd kicking angles is all you have working for your special teams—and the fact that your punter and punt return teams are rarely on the field, I think your FPE is going to look great!
(BTW, our Punter and our Kicker are top quality—I will say Bravo to that)
sometimes stats don’t tell the whole story. I think Gano single-handedly won 3 games last yr. However, I will admit punt coverage has been solid, returns have been good w/ Reid and Givens doing a nice job, and kickoff coverage seems to have improved although that may be a function of who’s doing the returning. Anybody ready for Spiller and James and I think NCST has a stud return man
Great read.
Will a breakdown of our defense vs. UNC offense follow?
The widespread observation is that our DEs were continually sealed off leading to the repeated long runs off tackle…. either due to cheating/pinching inside, or badly misreading plays and not maintaining the discipline to guard the edges.
For anyone that has studied the film, did this appear to be intentional? That is, in recognition of our soft interior DL, are we simply gambling and selling out to stop the run either inside or outside on every play, and hoping for the best?
Or is our execution of a more traditional strategy simply that bad? I can’t imagine a player (or players) that couldn’t simply understand, “stay on the outside shoulder of the tackle.” Nor do I think that EVERY SINGLE ONE of these outside runs was the result of mis-direction, leading our ends to pursue to the other side and getting out of position.
Our DE's crash for sacks on every play
and our LB’s fail to loop over and contain outside run plays.
At some point, we have to widen out our defensive ends.
Or is our execution of a more traditional strategy simply that bad? I can’t imagine a player (or players) that couldn’t simply understand, "stay on the outside shoulder of the tackle." Nor do I think that EVERY SINGLE ONE of these outside runs was the result of mis-direction, leading our ends to pursue to the other side and getting out of position.
Yes, it was that bad. Our guys don’t read anything. The level of instruction reminds me of a bad high school team. Allen and Amato are lazy as hell and result to intensity teaching while other solid coaches are hounding players on angles, repetition, form, and recognition. We don’t stand a chance.
I might break down some defensive film but probably not. Tomorrow is a difficult slate of classes.
I'm perfectly content without reliving that defensive nightmare at least
until NC State this weekend.
See, that's what I can't understand -- "Our guys don't read anything."
If they are not reading (or trying to read) the play, then we’re either talking about (a) strict gap control, or (b) pure freelance into the backfield… or away from it, in our case. But I digress…
Since it cannot possibly be (a), unless they’re being told to pinch inside 90% of the time, then are we truly seeing defensive ends that are told to just do whatever they can to make a play? And then stupidly taking an inside route on just about every down?
I really, really, really, really (did I say that enough?) cannot fathom all those coaches — Andrews, Amato, Haggins, Buckley, all of the GA’s, as well as all of the offensive staff — not being able to simply intervene with a, “hey, why don’t you tell your DE’s to stay home once in a while” that would prevent some of what we are seeing. You can tell me that they’re saying it and he’s simply ignoring them, or the players are too stupid to tell one shoulder from the other, but my mind will not let me accept that this is behind what is going on.
Someone just has to take the time to do a breakdown all ~17 of those 15+ yard runs, with a little yellow circle around #98 & co., showing me these guys failing in this regard, in order for me to believe that this could be possible. From my own real-time observation, it truly looks as though they are intentionally, schematically, being directed to take an inside route to the backfield.
defensive coaches
I really, really, really, really (did I say that enough?) cannot fathom all those coaches — Andrews, Amato, Haggins, Buckley, all of the GA’s, as well as all of the offensive staff — not being able to simply intervene with a, "hey, why don’t you tell your DE’s to stay home once in a while" that would prevent some of what we are seeing. You can tell me that they’re saying it and he’s simply ignoring them, or the players are too stupid to tell one shoulder from the other, but my mind will not let me accept that this is behind what is going on.
Part of the problem could be the uncertainty on the defensive coaching staff. Andrews is clearly a lame duck so do you listen to him? Amato is reportedly either trying to position himself to be DC or damn near sabotaging the team. Allen doesn’t know how to play or coach the position he is in charge of and who would he actually listen to if they tried to tell him something? Bobby won’t get involved, Jimbo has no power, and I already went over Amato and Andrews. Dysfunction reigns supreme.
by osceolafan850 on Oct 26, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
quick defensive review
I have not had much time to watch the tape, but it does appear the d-line was running the same series of stunts over and over again against certain UNC looks. The stunt did involve the end crashing down with the back side DT looping around for outside contain. Each time we stunted, UNC got big yards (at least late in the game). Even the announcers noticed this!
Additionally, Kendall Smith missed a lot of tackles due to slow reads, poor angles (see slow reads) not taking on the blocker well, or just not making the play. Of all of our weaknesses on defense, I think the poor technique of our linebackers has been the biggest problem. If linebackers don’t fill the gaps and scrape downhill to the ball on outside runs, your defense will suck, which is a big part of why our defense is ranked in the 100s.
By the way, although some have better instincts to play linebacker than others, reading and reacting to plays, taking on blockers, running good angles, and tackling are all a reflection of coaching and practice. Our linebackers are a direct reflection of their coach.
So...
If DT’s are responsible for outside contain, then you have Moses, J Mac, et al with the assignment of outrunning the UNC RB’s to the sidelines? And they continued to run this, even after the first 10 or so big gainers outside? Mind-numbing.
Again, my ONLY explanation about this is that it was some type of gimmick scheme aimed causing disruption up the middle (though typically you don’t vacate your DTs from the middle if that is the hope!?!?!).. but perhaps they were trying to cause confusion on the UNC OL because they know they simply can’t handle any OL in a straight-up contest. I have to categorize this as a schematic failure akin to the GT “dive at the center’s feet” tactic… a move of absolute desperation because they don’t have any other answers.
It's not always a contain, it can be a gap or they can be asked to set the edge.
A lot of this is on the backers.
I was trollin the NC State message boards and noticed a lot of guys over there wanted CTC back as DC.
those are all unc fans infiltrating the enemy
just like all the ‘nole fans’ who continually support bobby on our message boards while wearing their ‘i heart timmy’ t-shirts sitting at their trailor outside of jacksonville…
Interviews and Jeff Cameron?
Isn’t there suppose to be interviews and Jeff Cameron’s show today? I haven’t seen anyone post about it.
Does Jeff have any relation to this site other than a reader? He seems to repeat almost everything here.
No, I mean I guess he reads us, but that is his job (to stay informed)
Also, the guy really knows what he is talking about. He knows football.
He has exclusivity with Warchant
but he reads us, and he is a strong voice for good footbal.
www.twitter.com/fsumatthunter
need someone
to repeat stuff here. Gotta reach the masses. So my ears don’t bleed from hearing BB chants every game.
nice job with the article
must getting boring explaining the faults of BB to noobs in every article tho. Mine as well set up a sticky, look here if u think BB can still coach lol
i agree that it is mostly de, lb
having played de in hs, i see them crashing in alot, and the primary responsibility is contain, there also is too much hide and seek def, you know engage the lineman and try to spot the rb, as opposed to the days when we were in the backfield every play ,disrupting.—also agree the lbs are not reading fast enough , taking good angles i am getting used to a bottle of pepto-bismol with the game instead of beer, sickening to watch.
Sorry
But I was searching the archive for over an hour and I can’t find the piece I think you guys did comparing the ACC to other conferences. It had alot of great stuff in it and I have been trying to convince some friends that the ACC was at least good last year.
If someone could link it or something, or maybe I imagined it?
Sorry for off topic
Can you be more specific as to what it had?
by Bud Elliott on Oct 26, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be this excellent piece of work
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/8/18/992894/acc-roundtable-pre-season-edition
CP7, Please do not go Pro
It was indeed
As well as the first link in that story. Thanks alot btw.
And they still won’t accept it, but its all good
I can't say I blame them
The ACC has had some very bad moments this season
CP7, Please do not go Pro

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