Ponder Leads Timmay in Every Category Except Circumcisions Performed on Spring Break
Nice job by Chantrant.com
We're gonna get Ponder on that list. Big article to come later today.
10 months ago
Bud Elliott
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I’ll believe it when I see it. I agree with everything written about Ponder being better than Tebow and the fact at Tebow leads Heisman voting is a crime but FSU isn’t good enough for Ponder to win the Heisman. Voters have shown that they just take popularity into the voting and don’t much pay attention to actual performance. Plus the Heisman winner will almost always come from a ranked team, at least in the past 10 years they have. I think Ron Dayne was the last Heisman winner to not play in the NC game.
Ponder’s money game will have to come against UF but most voters have handed in their ballots by then so it won’t likely matter. It’s just another thing the FSU defense has robbed from this program.
just sayin'
I think Teebag has rushed for more yards, which apparently is like owning a golden goose….
Joe Webb, Colin Kaepernick, Ricky Dobbs and Dan LeFevour
have all rushed for more yards than Tebow, doesn’t make them better QBs
CP7, Please do not go Pro
umm, okay...
I think you’re missing my point.
I am kind of playing devil’s advocate here…I don’t think the timmy worshippers have any room to defend him as best player in CFB this year……I’m just saying they will, and the rushing yards will be one of their ten commandments.
Not if they actually look at the numbers
Tebow averages 3.9/carry and Ponder averages 2.2/carry
Those are hardly numbers that jump off the page and say he is clearly the better player especially when you compare their passing stats
But you are probably right, Gator fans think with their jean shorts and not their heads.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Who am I, FSUn?
No I didn’t, but I am pretty sure Heisman voters and Gator fans wouldn’t either.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
i think ponder is 150ish and tebow is somewhere above 400
but tballs is also rushing 20x a game, i would be interested to see yds/carry
td’s ponder 1 tbag 4 i think
Tebow won it with 4 losses...
but other than that, the Heisman has become more and more about the team than the player nowadays.
I asked a gator why Tebow deserves it more than Ponder when he can’t help the defense, he said because Tebow wills them to victory and Ponder doesn’t…….WHAT?!?!
"Fifty percent of the teams in country got beat last week" -BB
Florida State Football will never accept falling in the bottom half
Prayer IS a powerful thing
But I think it probably doesn’t need to be part of the Heisman equation.
This year clearly proves Tebow needs studs around him to succeed
The loss of Harvin (1st Rounder) and Murphy (4th Rounder) has made a HUGE difference in his perfomance.
Ponder is currently doing more with less IMO, I doubt there is any skill positions on offense that goes in the draft next year (down the road yes)
It will all come full circle when that dueche Tebow is sitting in NY with some stupid suit on and keeps getting passed on by NFL General Managers that value their job more than some stupid Heisman award or the ability to “will” a team to victory.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Well it may not be just aboout the W/L record...
the national perception for FSU is that wheels have fallen off completely…
Tebow and Urban were there for the “Turnaround” of UF (Didn’t this come the season after the Gators won the MNC)
Ponder and Bowden are here for the “downward spiral” of FSU.
I think Ponder deserves it, but it won’t happen.
It was 3 when he won it and then they lost their bowl game
But still…voters that year were all about saying “record doesn’t matter.” We’ll see about that.
>>---l>
PHB
Those stats are part of the Total Offense.
thx
I was just making a point.
I think Ponder is much more deserving too, I was just saying that rushing yards wasn’t listed separately, probably because timmy leads in that category.
Rushing....
Tebow 121 rushes for 466 net yards 6 TD’s
Ponder 63 rushes for a net of 137 2 TD’s
So both have 14 total TD’s Ponder is just less selfish and throws them in..
Tebow has 300 yards more rushing but Ponder has 1000 yards more throwing. In this case its less of a deal then I think you are trying to make it. I understand the devils advocate but this isn’t his 20/20 year.
"Reporter: What will you tell the team at halftime Bobby?
Bobby: I'll tell 'em what I always tell 'em when were winning. Boys if they don't score we'll win this game"
7 of his td's came against CS and troy
check out his SEC numbers
I'd love to see Tebow
Try to will Mangum to not let recievers run right pas him
Haha, I wonder how Florida's secondary would fare
if we replaced Hill or Wright with Magnum….
"Fifty percent of the teams in country got beat last week" -BB
Florida State Football will never accept falling in the bottom half
That is absolutey mind blowing
How can you honestly say there are 15 better QBs in the nation
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Another Rigged Beauty Contest.
Let’s hope this rallies the team to get behind Ponder. Both offense and DEFENSE and show these award committees what jackasses they are
by Nole_Fan_Til_I_Die on Oct 27, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Jimbo would tend to agree with you.
"It is a shame," Fisher said. "Because it should be a performance-based deal. And in my opinion he’s playing as well as anybody. And you hate it for him. But it’s like everything in the awards world. It’s predetermined … It’s preset as to what their criteria is and who they have in it and they don’t let nobody else to the party. And that’s why I hate all that stuff because it should be performance-based on what you’re doing that year."
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Matt Barkley somehow makes the list.
7 TD 5 INT 1500 yards
And then of course Tebag is on the list.
Whatever.
Sad State of Affairs
All these awards have become beauty contests, not about performance. Ponder can’t win the Heisman because FSU isn’t a BCS contender. It’s a shame because he deserves to be considered. Anything that gets that out there is a good thing.
Can’t wait for Thanksgiving to see him face Tebow. Unfortunately we’ll probably be resigned to stat comparisons saying Ponder won the battle, but UF will win the war and the game.
by Nole_Fan_Til_I_Die on Oct 27, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
Unfortunately
against our defense and Ponder against theirs, I would imagine Tebow gets much better stats. However if we had equal defenses, I would imagine Tebow wouldn’t even touch Ponder’s stats
"Fifty percent of the teams in country got beat last week" -BB
Florida State Football will never accept falling in the bottom half
Take the blinders off guys
Let me just start off by saying, do I believe Ponder is a top QB in the nation? ABSOLUTELY. But everyone is now freaking out saying the system is all screwed up and the fix is in. Truth of the matter is the system is trending to the same as it has for the 10 past years.
Ever since Weinke won in 2000 the Heisman winner has come from a team that played in the National Championship. It is what it is. As much as we want OUR guy to win you have to take into consideration the success of a team.
I know Bud is going to have some amazing piece later today showing why Ponder is playing better than anyone in the nation and some of you will say that I am crazy. But, if we solely went off of individual success we would have Heisman winners like Dave Johnson (Tulsa), Colt Brennan (Hawaii) and Omar Jacobs (Bowling Green).
Everyone chill out, wait till next year and be glad that we have the best QB in the nation.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
I think the Heisman should consider team success and at this point, FSU still sucks as a whole.
However, I am disappointed that he didn’t make the Davey OBrien award list… not saying he should win it… but he should be at least in the discussion.
The Heisman is the award for the best PLAYER in the country
The Sears trophy is the award for the best TEAM in the country. That whole “national champion” thing takes team success into account. I don’t think the Heisman should do it too. I think they should remain separate. But they dont. Also, players entire careers are taken into account for the Heisman, although I dont think that should be the case either. Thats why they give one every year right? The Heisman should answer the question, “Who is the best player in the country this year?”
Ponder is one of the best QBs in the country, and QB being one of the most important positions, he is one of the best players in the country by default. To see him get the shaft by everyone (as far as national recognition and awards go) is criminal.
Rushing Stats
This is a comparison made using cfbstats.com. I am not sure how reliable but they seem about right.
Tebow: http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/235/1001120/rushing/situational.html
Ponder: http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/234/1001081/rushing/situational.html
Tebow has roughly ~330 yards more on nearly twice the number of carries.
As mentioned above
Those numbers include sacks, I am pretty sure Bud’s article today will have everything spelled out nice and pretty.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Yeah, that is why I don't like to post stats
I know it does not show the bigger picture sometimes. However, this is more responding to people saying that although Ponder is a much better passer but Tebow is the much better runner. I disagree with that assertion and think just the raw stats prove that he does not make up in rushing the deficent he has in passing.
I am not trumpeting the Ponder for Heisman call either. I know that will never happen on a team that may finish at or below .500 for the year. It’s just sad though that a player is not really analyzed for this award anyway….it has become a beauty pageant for a few teams each year that are in the national championship hunt.
Hit enter on last post too soon
Hardly worthy of being Heisman front runner right now. The award is becoming a joke, even worse if the great circumsizer wins again this year.
It is nonsense like this that irritates the hell out of me.
Unless you have an ESPN Insider subscription you are not going to be able to read this article, but I will highlight some bits for you to show it lunacy
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/insider/news/story?id=4596350
My favorite Components:
Given a pool of a few thousand players that are eligible for the award, analyzing the statistics of each one would be an impossible task. To create a more realistic prediction, only the most likely candidates’ statistics are taken into account.
Impossible? No, just lazy.
Conference affiliation: 15 points are awarded to each player from a BCS conference; 5 bonus points for teams from the Big 10, Big 12, SEC and USC and Notre Dame
Big 10? Are you serious and why only USC and Notre Dame?
QB: .5 points for each touchdown; 2.5 bonus points for reaching 40 TD, 7.5 points for 45 TD, 15 points for reaching 50 TD; for “system quarterbacks,” bonus points are not awarded until reaching 60 touchdowns (5 points)
"system quarterbacks"? So under Urban Meyer Alex Smith is a system quarterback but not Tim "Jesus Christ Superstar" Tebow.
Team wins: 1.5 points for each victory; 10 bonus points for undefeated BCS teams, 5 points for undefeated non-BCS teams; 5 points for defeating the No. 1-ranked team (at time of game)
5 points for defeating the No. 1-ranked team (at time of game)? So in theory a QB could throw for 65 yards, 4 INTs, 2 Fumbles and 1 TD, win the game 7-0 because of an awesome defense and still get bonus points.
Previous year’s Heisman voting: 10 points for finishing in the top 10 in the voting; only 2.5 points for the defending Heisman winner
Defending champion: 5 points for playing on the defending national champion
Why not include last year’s accomplishments into this year? My boss includes last year’s sales towards this year’s commission statement, doesn’t yours?
Ryan McCrystal is a researcher for ESPN Stats & Information. His Heisman Predictor formula has correctly identified the last six Heisman Trophy winners.
This article is proof that numbers can be used irresponsibly to prove a point. The scary part is that there are 800 voters and I can only imagine how many of them use this ridiculous formula in making their decision.
Here are the current leaders according to this asinine formula: Tim Tebow – 117.5 pts, Mark Ingram – 115.5 pts and Colt McCoy – 115 pts. I tried calculating Ponders but developed a brain aneurism in the process and gave up.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Oct 27, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I can’t read that article but if that’s a formula for predicting who the voters will give the Heisman than those weights make sense. If the voters tend to vote along those lines then the formula is correct. That doesn’t mean that Tebow should win the Heisman (to take this year for example) but that he likely will.
There are other numbers used in the formula that I didn't include
Whether the formula is correct or not is not the issue, it is the fact that this is a formula that uses numbers with no real explanation of how they were derived other than what he feels is appropriate. (i.e. RBs get 20 points for reaching 30 TD; for non-BCS running backs, bonus points are not awarded until reaching 30 TD (5 points)).
He also awards points dependent on the team’s outcome.
300 yards – Win = 5 points Loss = 3 points
2 Interceptions – Win = 0 Points Loss = -5
To arbitrarily award points like that when there are so many other factors at play really takes away to the validity of his own formula.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
I disagree. If the goal of the formula is to predict who will win the Heisman this year based on the circumstances of past winners then those point would make sense.
For example a team with a winning record and national recognition has been shown to have a better chance at having a Heisman winner. So awarding a player points based on that makes sense.
RaysnNoles
That article is really astounding. The Heisman is a joke. I used to have some semblance of respect for the trophy before reading the criteria garbage it is based upon.
I am beginning to feel like Neo in the Matrix and wishing I would have taken the other pill, blind ignorance is so much easier to stomach than seeing the real truth. That is not just applying to this article but to this site sometimes. After reading so much real analysis on here and knowing the truth behind the Bowden curtain…I swear I feel depressed for the rest of the day sometimes. Don’t get me wrong, I want to know but it always causes mixed feelings after you do know.
Rec'd for showing just how bad ESPN is
I believe that ESPN should get out of the fluffing biz, but alas they won’t → after all ESPN stands for “Entertainment and Sports Network”. To me that means that at least 2/3 of their focus should be on sports and a max of 1/3 on entertainment. Unfortunately, they probably have some other convulated formula to show that entertainment should be 99% of their focus with a smattering of sports sprinkled in. Sigh.
Success handling the Pigskin >>>>>>> Success handling the foreskin
Deal with awards committees.
by El Soro on Oct 27, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Questin..
If Ponder is starting to be considered a legit top NFL QB prospect…why isn’t he even on ESPN’s list for top 15 non senior QBs? I kind of hope this trend continues to ensure he’ll be back next year. I think he will be regardless though.
Because there are too many other issues to talk about right now
They are more concerned with who is the best this year, Bradford’s injury, BCS Rankings, bad officiating, etc.
He will get his recognitions after the season is done.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
Bud
Is it time to let TN in on the chat you think?
Maybe...
If Tebow spent more time studying football and less on 3rd world foreskin he wouldn’t have had his brains scrambled against Kentucky and maybe could throw for 300 yards once this year…
Bright side is if Ponder stays under the radar he probably won’t bolt for the NFL, and help us really make a run next year.
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