What does the man do for $2.5 million?"
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 10, 2009 2:34 PM EST
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PrintFSUn asked the question, and it deserves an answer. And that answer is, "The same thing he has always done."
Someone posed the same question many of us have been asking ourselves: "Are Bobby's actions due to (1) honest blindness or (2) alert malice?"
My answer would be something in between.
Yes, Bobby sees what's going on-- he's not blind and he's not senial.
But I have long believed that Bobby sees his failures as the result of circumstances out of his control, not his or his staff's lack of ability or poor judgment. He has a victim mentality. For 2 decades he's been saying things like "half the other teams who played today lost too" or "look at Auburn (or whoever) " when we'd lose a game we shouldn't have and wouldn't have lost, without dumb decisions like going conservative against miami late in the game while they continued to try to win. He has always talked about 'things going in cycles" and "chance" rather than strategy and planning or coaching mistakes.
Look, he and his sons have a very simple coaching philosophy: "Recruit the best players you can, then let them play, and you'll win more than you lose. Hire yeoman staff that will stick around, shield them from public outcry for failing to fully utilize the talent you've recruited and failing to properly plan, teach discipline, manage the clock, plan for games, make adjustments or pay attention to the details to make the team the best it can be."
We saw the same approach and these same criticisms of Tommy at Clemson. We saw them with Terry at AU. Bobby and Jeff tried to continue that same approach here. But in an age of recruiting parity, with UF and miami back at full recruiting strength after NCAA sanctions, we were doomed to 3rd place in FL as the others actually coached their teams.
In fact, I would argue that if Bowden had not had the good fortune of moving to the hottest recruiting bed in the nation and finding decent athletes when he arrived, and then UF and miami going on successive sanctions and giving us their best athletes for a decade, he would have had the same success at FSU that he had at WVU and that Terry and Tommy had at their schools. They are all mediocre coaches.
And, he taught others to follow that same "minimal coaching" philosophy: We saw Brad Scott try it and fail at USCeast. We saw Amato do the same things at NCSt. We have seen Richt do that at UGA and the same scenario is playing out again (just see the Dawgs boards-- they are sick and tired of the lack of creativity and lack of discpline that are resulting in consistent top 10 classes turning into top 50 teams, while Richt protects his underperforming staff).
So the bottom line is that Bowden is doing the same things he's always done, which is why he believes he can "still do it". He thinks the current circumstances are not his fault, and things will just turn around if he stays long enough. And he wants to prove that to all of us. In his view, his past record, the field named after him, the stained glass, and the statue must all vindicate his belief in Minimal Coaching, even though it no longer works.
So I chose something between reasons 1 and 2: He was mad because he thinks Jeff was canned too soon and that circumstances would have magically reversed themselves if he'd stayed. He's being stubborn now because of his lifelong belief in Minimal Coaching and victims of circumstance--not because he's old and not because he's malicious. He's just not that insightful, and never has been.
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Sadly Agree
Hate that it had to be said, but I think this is pretty much spot on.
The only reason Florida State was ever anything is because Florida was on probation for a few years in the '80's.
The most overstated claim you’ll find on TN. Of course I love TN. And FiestaNole. (As a friend.) But it’s where some contention comes in.
Most infractions in NCAA history.
107, irrc. This resulted in the NCAA coming down like a hammer- no bowls, no TV (had to watch the ‘86 game closed circuit in the LCCC), severe scholly cuts through the end of the 80’s. There were rumours that uf was on the verge of the Death Penalty, thanks to Charlie Pell’s antics.
A little more of a history lesson, which my friend TRM seems to overlook :) :
The coach before Bowden was Darell Mudra, who had had very good success at Eastern Illinios and elsewhere. He inherited a mess at FSU. The first year his team went 1-10. The next year it went 3-8. It takes a lot to get fired after only 2 years, but he accomplished that by forcing his linemen to practice blocking under chicken wire, with the attendant bad publicity. And, he wasn’t “southern.”
Bowden came in ‘76, and the team again won 2 more games than the previous year, for a 5-6 record, which is exactly what Mudra was projecting to do. Before he got here, Bowden’s WVU teams had gone 8-3, 7-4, 6-5, 4-7 and 9-3 (look somewhat familiar? I call it “the Bowden Clan Plateau”).
But Bobby was a showman who excelled at recruiting and building a booster org, and the FL HS talent now coming to FSU was gaining experience. Overall, our players, thanks to the FL weather and population explosion, was better than the likes of So MIss, KSU, Cinn., N. Tx St, SDSU on our scedule at that time. Of course, we continued to lose to miami and UF for several years, and they weren’t exactly national powers. But for once there was excitement at FSU! Bobby introduced the horse and rider, Burt (who used to be a movie star) bought us the uniforms, and the show was on!
1978-80 were FSU’s, and Bowden’s, best years to that time. Is it coincidence that soon after his bright young OC, George Henshaw, left for better things that we proceeded to go 6-5, 9-3, 8-4, 7-3, 9-3, and 7-4, which includes 2-10 against uf and miami (again, the Bowden Clan Plateau)?
Anyway, UF’s antics resulted in their essentially handing us their best recruits from ’85- ’90 (it was harder for out of state schools to get FL athletes in those days). That ’85 class with Deion Sanders and Sammy Smith and Pat Carter, etc., was the foundation for “The Dynasty”.
We continued to lose more games than we should have against miami, even under their multiple staffs, and had a reputation for “starting every season slow” (due to inadequate preparation). But our increasing success with the athletes we were now getting allowed us to continue to recruit well and build ridiculous depth into the early 90’s. Of course, we continued to lose poorly coached games against miami and others, but most teams could not approach our depth.
Miami was then kind enough to garner similar sanctions to Florida’s due to the (ironically named) Pell Grant scam, and we took their recruits from ’94 until about ’98.
By ‘99, they had recruited young talent again, and immediately gave us all we could handle. Again, their balance confused us, and still we did not know that TE’s could catch. What happened in 2000 when they were back at full strength, and our lack of preparation, anticipation and adjustment, was not a surprise.
As the new century dawned, we needed to hire a top notch OC to compete with other schools that were now recruiting well too. But of course Bobby gave us Jeffy who, in his view, would be good enough to employ the Bowden Minimal Coaching Doctrine.
And we were right back into the Bowden Clan Plateau (yes, I like labels :) )
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 10, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh. And that, kids, is why FSU sucks.
And we’ll never compete with Florida again. And Jimbo won’t be good enough either.
This is the kind of read that reminds me that there are two distinct groups of FSU fans, neither deserving any better than the product they receive.
Naw, Jimbo actually coahes.
There’s no shame in losing to better teams, as long as one loses with honor, effort, and brains. And Jimbo works harder than anyone we’ve had since McDuffey.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 10, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
We can compete with Florida again, it will just be a long way down the line.
Not too long ago Alabama was in terrible shape. Every coach they hired seemed to get them involved in a scandal of some sort. Now Alabama is seen as competitive with some of the best Florida teams of all time.
I think Florida will probably keep the upper hand over Florida State for many years, but we will eventually be able to beat them and maybe have runs of superiority here and there.
I don’t mean they will win every single game between the two teams for many years, but I expect them to have the upper hand in the series (say winning 6 or 7 of the next 10).
Thanks for the great commentary...
and the FSU history. It’s why I keep coming back to TN.
Unfortunately, while I disagree with its details, Bowden has earned this legacy by not stepping down long ago.
A very sad finale for a man who was underappreciated by some during the glory years and worshipped by too many in the wasted decade that followed. Not a single winner in the end.
"Teach discipline"
I assume you are referring more to off-the-field stuff, like being a father-figure to some of the kids? I would argue that on the field we have historically been one of the most undisciplined teams (i.e. penalties, missed assignments, etc.)
Both,
but I was really thinking on field art that point. Lack of discpline on the field has been the hallmark of his, his sons’ and his disciples’ programs.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 10, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Of course guys, this is all my opinion
based on the things I think I know, and should be taken with a grain of salt ;)
What does he do
Nothiniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
Well the jungle hat does look sporty
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
I agree completely
All FSU fans would like to be able to say Bowden had something special that made FSU what it was, but in reality there was a fair amount of luck. All of our failures against teams with equal talent reveal this. About the only thing Bowden had was personality and a somewhat stable atmosphere which allowed the luck to help us.
The good news is that we can build a program based on substance if we just get Bowden out and more Jimbo type coaches in.
What does he do????
He wipes his nose constantly and wanders along the sidelines looking generally confused about what is going on. Hey Spetman….I can do that exacctly that for a lot less money. Give me a call!
God there's a lot of victim mindset in the comments
With proper coaching I see no reason we won’t compete with and beat UF very soon. But overall I see your argument about Bowden.
I just wonder if we had better coaching how many NC’s would we have had in the 90s?
I went back and look at the 2000 team today
My God they were disgusting. Not winning that year is completely unacceptable
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Money
We’re not competing w/ UF on a consistent basis. That ship has sailed unless they get on probation.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Boo.
Stop preaching that. Step 1 to recovery can not include accepting that we can’t compete with UF. That doesn’t inspire a broken and tired fanbase. But Bowden has definitely erased the progress we made (you’d never get this from Fiesta’s accounts, but we owned Florida for more than a decade and beat them to every major accomplishment in college football after spotting them a 40-year head start), and it will take years to catch up now. It can be done though. Certainly “We can’t do it” would not be the rally cry of choice.
FSUcensored is right...WITH an addition...
with UF"s money advantage and FSU’s mentality (hiring less than intelligent folks, with poor resumes, and/or lazy work habits. See most Bobby hires/TK/Spetman/etc) = not competing with UF an many levels for a long…LONG time.
But now it will be Fisher picking the new hires; not BB
If we get a Jimbo-quality DC like Travis Jones, and the D gets transformed on par with what JF has done with the offense, then we’re looking at a dynasty and UF will have trouble beating us anytime soon (present season excluded)
That's a big addition.
And granted. And this is exactly why I’d rather see a call-to-action than a concession out of the gates.
You can out-coach UF
FSU did have better POSITION coaches than UF during that reign; my step-father works with a member of the ’93 NC team up here in DC and the guy raves about how well he was taught as a DB. The guy also will go on and on about how undisciplined and terrible our current secondary is—everything from their footwork to their tackling technique.
The great thing about football is that there is so much technique to learn because of a high team effort reqiurement that you really can offer less money to a talented coach and get him because of the system that you have created. Bowden had that in the ’90’s and was able to replenish these coaches as often as necessary.
His downfall will always be his Christian arrogance. There is being humbly christian, and then their is being sinfully christian. If you look at his decision making process over the years his professional values are questionable as he brings a southern politicians whit to a sport that has moved beyond the pews.
He doesn't get paid for what he does
He gets paid for what he did in the past. He singlehandedly built the FSU football program into a national powerhouse even though everyone knows that the program faced impossible odds. Before he came to FSU, the football team was simply a collection of inept coaches and untalented players. The school is located in one of the hardest places in the country to recruit and has nothing to offer the players once they arrive on campus. There is not a single other person in the history of the world that could have accomplished what Coach Bowden has done at FSU. He is the greatest coach to ever walk the planet in any sport! He not only excelled at strategy and attention to detail, but he was able to turn the cast-offs from other programs into superhuman all-Americans. He shaped lives in such a way that FSU was the very model of virtue and set the ethical standards by which all others are judged. He was able to do this without any support from the boosters and fans. We are all lucky to have lived our lives during his time on this earth.
The question isn’t what he gets paid for, it is why isn’t he paid more ; )
You really think he should be paid more money for what he did 20 years ago.
In what bizzaro world does that make sense?
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Hmm, we're looking for something a little closer to the middle of the two extremes here.
AKA reality. Funny stuff by the way. What’s sad is, this could very easily be a cut-and-paste of an argument made by some of our short-lived guests who visited TN after thinking the USF/BC/(fill-in-the-blank) game was some sort of supernatural hiccup in the scheme of Bobby’s continued greatness. Alas, I dare not research.
The entire post was sarcasm
hence the wink at the end
WBisaNole, You scared me there for a moment. But now that I understand-good one.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
To be honest I never realized it meant wink, I alway figured people who used it were too lazy to use the cap key for a colon. Lesson learned.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Dang fat fingers hit the enter key
I don’t usually use emoticons for just that reason. I figured it was so over the top that people would recognize the joke, but you are right, there are people that really think like this.
The funny thing is, 20 years ago, I believed a lot of that.
There’s a few old timers left who still do.
But they’re dying off, figuratively and literally.
by PeachTreeNole on Nov 13, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Bowden
The man has done a lot of great things at Florida State. I have met him many times and I have watched him speak many times. He is getting on up there in age… I agree. I think that next year will be his last. I will miss him. I hope that we find a really good defiensive coordinator and have a good run next year and then he could slide out on a high note and pass over the program to Jimbo without us having to pay the buy out. I want Bobby to leave the way he came in…a winner. I can write all day long and have people disagree with me but that is how I feel. I really think that we are real close to being back. Bobby hired the offensive coaches…(forced) not Jimbo. I wanna give the man one more year….thats it. One more. Then, pass the torch!
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
Hires
he hired Trickett, Carter, Coley, and Fisher. We thought that Jimbo was not interested so FSU withdrew from him. Then Jimbo called Bobby and said, “hey I am still interested”. So we hired him. Trickett and Fisher are friends… that had a lot to do with him coming.
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
WRONG
Jimbo brought in Coley, Trickett, and Dawsey because he had worked with them LSU. Bobby did not actively go out and search for those individuals, he might of approved of them in the end but I would hardly call that a hire.
Dexter Carter was Bobby’s only offensive hire and it has once again proved that Bobby is incompetent. Carter had ZERO coaching experience prior to joining FSU and has done a poor job since he has been here. Which has resulted in him losing his coaching duties to Trickett and which more than likely cost him his job after the end of the season.
Bobby continues to put the wrong people in charge and proves that he is no longer fit do have any responsibility when it comes to decisions regarding FSU Football and thus should be gone as soon as possible.
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"I want one more year, that's it."
Sounds like something a drug addict would say.
What high note would Bowden be sliding out on? The “we won in spite of you” high note?
In every argument, we can find at least something to agree on.
Yours hides near the bottom:
I can write all day long and have people disagree with me but that is how I feel.
That’s right, ace. I’d save the energy though. K-Man and RaysnNoles hit this one out of the park. Except Bobby wouldn’t go out on a high note. And our recruiting would continue to suffer. And he wouldn’t announce a farewell tour, and he’d continue to kick and scream until the obits read “Paterno, Joseph Vincent,” and then he’d kick and scream some more “just to keep the record safe, you know? We won nine games, and they’re gonna kick me outta here? You know how many they won when I got hee-ya?” I can’t believe you haven’t figured this out yet. It. Never. Ends. (But it’s going to. Finally. Because it’s not up to Bobby.)
I’m guessing you’re either 9 or 90. Not a compliment. You either don’t care about the future or you don’t understand it. The folks here do. But what I’m trying to tell you in this post is that the dream farewell tour you’re imagining is not what would happen. It’s sad, and it’s awful, but it’s simply the only conclusion one can reach upon analyzing the mountains of evidence Coach Bowden has given us.
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