Where are the recruits?
by Mooney on Nov 11, 2009 8:50 PM EST
72 comments
I am currently attending FSU and wondering what some of your opinions are concerning this year's recruiting class. Rivals has us ranked 39th in the country and everyday I feel solid recruits are slipping through our fingers. Are the appropriate actions not being taken. I am not interested in hearing what a lousy job BB is doing, I understand that. But also, who among our current commitments has the possibility of doing well or even being great?
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First off
welcome to the site. FSU recruiting has been very silent lately. I think some recruits are waiting for the coaching situation to be sorted. If you want to know who we have signed and who we are trying to get then you should start with this thread.
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/3/3/778241/2010-recruiting-big-board
Well, there are two seperate arguments that I read often
One is that recruiting rankings do matter, as you look at top teams then look at their recruiting rankings, then there is the other argument, which states some coaches rely too much on rankings and the good coaches see the talent before others realize what they are missing.
Personally I think both are somewhat correct. If you have a bunch of two and three stars, you are not fooling anyone. They are not all diamonds in the rough. Also, although many of the four and five star guys do not pan out, more of them than the two and three star guys probably do become stars. If guys have raw talent and coaches spot it, more power to them to try and mold it. I also know coaches need guys who fit their system. Then again, you can teach technique, put guys on weight training programs, etc, but if a guy comes in already big and fast, you got a head start with them.
All I know is if Trickett is going after a 2 or 3 * kid I would beleave in him being able to turn
him into NFL prospect. Stars do matter for the over all though. Yes are not going to pan out witch is a problem FSU has had over the last 10 years realy. Thats both the coaches fualt as it is the meidas. Also we are going to have to work our way back up to get these top rated kids. We have to go after these 3 and 4* kids untell FSU is back in the top 20 year in and out. 5* kids want to play and make it to the NFL. they cant do that right now at FSU but at UF, Bama, and USC its almost serten they will. It sucks but thats how it falls.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
They absolutely do matter
The correlation and matriculation is undeniable.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Word on the street is about 50% of success can be explained by recruiting.
and the other half is all the other factors.
365 days, until I change my ways.
Some time ago
I heard that this correlation, which is real, does not hold true w/r/t offensive linemen. Trickett seems to have reinforced that conclusion.
Agree or disagree?
Hardest position to evaluate, higher variance in growth and intelligence.
365 days, until I change my ways.
I find that funny (not that I disagree)
Every year in the NFL Draft you hear that O-linemen are the easiest postition to project and they are the “safest” pick.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Nov 12, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Because 18-22 for big guys is crucial .
Ever heard the term “haven’t grown into their bodies”?
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Its about growth rate. 18-21 is a huge time of growth for a lot of these kids. 21+ is not.
365 days, until I change my ways.
They definitely matter
I just wish we caught one particular break this decade(Xavier Lee) If he’s a five star QB, I’m a Chinese typewriter.
The recruits are waiting for the changes to become official
It is very frustrating to play the waiting game right now…….that is understandable…
The one thing everyone needs to keep in mind is the recruits FSU is waiting on are ELITE..
They are waiting because they want to committ to FSU but want to be sure the Seminoles are going in the right direction….
RECRUITS like Green, Luc, Jones, Shaw, Joyner, Mitchel, and others I can’t think of off the top of my head this late are not running to commit to other teams and that is a good thing!!!
Give it time …If the rumors are true about our next defensive cordinator then our class can still be very good….Not top 5 but top 15 or maybe top 10 ….Also atleast one big suprise could follow a certain DC if indeed he becomes our next cordinator…..
Oh and do not forget about a few possible big DT’s from JUCO…..
Remember it is not about rankings as much as it is need ….
Deas and Smiley could be huge gets and A jUCO DB might also be big as well..
Put your trust in Jimbo and Coley…This class may not be the best but it is not going to be bad by any standards……
The Future looks very bright ….just be patient for another month and a half…….
I agree with these above recrutis want to know who is next
But at the same time this is giving other schools more time to get them. Look at Tenn they took 2 big recruits from us from Byrns SC. that hurt but at least it wasnt a killer blow.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
It most certainly was a big blow
Our weakest unit is the D line, and these two players could have made an impact immediately. Everyone keeps talking about Deas and Smiley, but they are not locks to us by any means. At this point, I don’t see any locks…
Thank you for your inquiry.
Hopefully this link helps and comes off just as sarcastic as I hoped it would…
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/6/15/909502/tomahawk-nations-florida-state
by MattDNole on Nov 12, 2009 8:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
question about hiring/interviewing the next D staff.....
if any school wants to talk to another schools staff for a job interview/interest, does the requesting school have to get permission and isn’t this info usually public? Just curious.
No we'll do it in an underhanded way via agents.
This is a cutthroat game.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
How underhanded can you expect us to be?
Spetman seems to be a by-the-book military type of guy. Unless there is someone else heading up the search.
Tomahawk Nation: Top 10 NCAA Football Blog
coming form the military we do thing a lot different.
Its all about politics and keeping face with us. We will make it look as great as possable to your face but dont trust what we say 100%. There is some truth to it because we have to cover our butts but thats about as far as it goes.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Thanks Des
I am hoping he can suprise us all and land a stud
Tomahawk Nation: Top 10 NCAA Football Blog
True, and that bureaucrat mindset is partially the reason
my dad walked away form his bird colonel rank, higher adminstrative duties and a possible rank of general, in order to “be real” and start his own business.
Good point Des
By the way, happy belated Veterans Day!
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Nov 12, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
ya know, with your love of sports and comparing stats,
you should think seriously about practicing entertiament law, witrh a focus on representing players as an agent.
NO NO NO Don't come out here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and waste your life in the “Industry” I mean if you want to waste the first few years of your career working in a mailroom for less than nothing just to get onto a desk of some douchebag agent who will constantly berate you, break you down, and work you till your eyes bleed so you can eventually become some JR agent making 60,000 a year. If that sounds good to you come out here and make it in Hollywood it’s a freaking party.
Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled football talk.
I was thinking the same exact thing
Recently purchased Seasons 1-5.
by CSI Nole on Nov 13, 2009 9:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I'm in the Film biz. It's weaksauce don't do it. But it would be cool to watch games at BigWangz with someone with some sense.
And btw you don’t need to be a lawyer to be an agent. Just a Douche.
by willdabeast on Nov 13, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
My boys go there for every game
They are pretty sensible, lunatics, but sensible
Tomahawk Nation: Top 10 NCAA Football Blog
Haha yeah there are definitely cool people who go there. A lot of the worst offenders are the ones just out of school.
although I haven’t been there in a while. These 9 am games just don’t get the excitement up.
Thought about it, but there are soooooo many
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
In the NFL
there are more certified agents than players. I went to the sport management conference every year before I graduated…its a tough business to get into.
I read where Mickey is technically employed until Feb. 10th, anyone know how that affects new D hires?
Just curious if we couldn’t technically name a new crew until then or if said crew could be announced but not start recruiting, anyone know how all that works, or is that Feb. 10th date just an end of contract date?
It won't affect anything
It’s only a date with sentimental value. I believe most of the coaching staff, sans the DC, will be announced shortly after the FL game. They will start working on recruits immediately until the new DC is announced, which he may only have a few weeks to recruit based on the rumors flying around.
He won't be "DC" until Feb 10th, he'll assume a new position.
by Bud Elliott on Nov 12, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Deas??
Anybody know what is going on with him right now??
Go here
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/3/3/778241/2010-recruiting-big-board
Our recruiting guys will answer all of your questions
>>---l>
what makes you say that?
RETURN TO DOMINANCE, 2010!!!!
by UnstopaNole99! on Nov 12, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
that could just be all talk though,,,as these things normally go
RETURN TO DOMINANCE, 2010!!!!
by UnstopaNole99! on Nov 12, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't make sense to him
What’s in it for him? He can continue to be successful at Alabama and get a HC gig somewhere, or take a chance that he might not succeed at FSU and have his stock drop significantly. As hot as he is, why waste your time trying to revive a defense that may take 3 years? He doesn’t NEED to come to FSU.
Why live in Saban's shadow when improving the FSU D is a "sure thing"?
The D can’t possibly get any worse, so his success would be certain. He would also be given all the credit because there is no doubting that Jimbo is an offensive guy.
This. Exactly what RaysNoles said.
A move to FSU can do nothing for Smart except hurt him. Call it what you want, being in Saban’s shadow, etc… he has nothing to gain and everything to lose by coming here.
Eh I don't know
Depends on how the athletic directors of the programs that need a head coach look at it. If they think he’s just benefitting from Saban’s success and control over Bama’s defense, then they won’t hire him for the head coaching job he wants. At FSU it would be all him, leaving AD’s with no reservations about hiring him for a head coaching job if he succeeds.
>>---l>
you might be right about Smart not being the next DC but
I think it could benefit him. If he were to leave Bama and come to FSU and turns the Def around he could be looking at a HC job in 2 years easy at a big school. A lot of people know that Saben has the say on the Def so coming here he would be given almost full control of everything for the most part. Im sure a ton more than what he has right now. Now is this something he wants or not and is the money where he wants who knows.
Best bet would be to offer at the least. If he bites great if not find the next big fish in the sea. I would bet that the next DC has already been made and that its just a matter of time when FSU wants to let people know know and when they will be here. I dought that JF would realy wait on this tell the last min because hes going to need all the help he can get to recruit.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Word on the street
Is that he was contacted about the job and he wasn’t interested or at least whatever the deal was he was not interested in. It doesn’t matter about the perception of who is coaching the players (see Bill Belichek or Tony Dungy or Mike Holmgren). How many of their coaches have went on to get promoted or head coaching gigs just by being associated with them?? AD’s know that Saban is a good coach and hires the best of the best. That’s why every year his coaches are being sought after by major programs. I expect position coaches to be announced within a few weeks after the UF game and the DC to be announced later.
We're not arguing that he will/won't be the DC
Just that he would have incentive to. AD’s may know that Saban hires the best of the best, but how much of that defense is Nick’s and how much is Kirby’s? I don’t agree that an AD would hire Smart as a head coach just because he coached under Saban as opposed to a guy like Steele who handles his whole defense.
>>---l>
I'm not saying
the only reason an AD would hire him is the coaching tree he came from, but it sure does help. IMO, Steele is a better position coach than DC. Anyway, only a few more weeks until substantial change takes place, and it can’t come quick enough!
Jimbo is an offensive guy
People could say it was sabans team, but jimbos offense. Smart will never have anyone say it was his defense…
Personally, id like
to see Travis Jones or Karl Dunbar. Smart would be too conflicted to save this class considering hes probably recruiting some of the same kids we are.
Agreed
However, He’s probably been working on these kids for much longer than FSU has publicly needed a new DC. I guess the variable would be how long ago FSU privately started to look. Who’s really sure? Conflicted would definitely apply if one day you’re telling a kid"come to Tuscaloosa" and the next you’re saying"scratch that, come to Tallahassee" Wouldn’t you agree? Could you pass that off to an 18yr old? “Forget Bama, the 4-5 Noles are REALLY where its at!” Despite making statements to the contrary.
It would be nice to see......
I have nothing but confidence they’ll get the right guy (exceptional recruiter,coach)I just cant wait to find out who!
Honestly, we don't need to worry about who the next DC will be...
Jimbo will make an excellent choice. I can’t believe Bowden’s arrogance/selfishness when he said he will have the final say on the coordinator. If Jimbo is the next head coach it should be his. What if Bowden were to choose someone Jimbo clashes with? I know this has already been beaten to death.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that no matter what I’m sure we’ll get a great DC, but we need to get this thing announced ASAP. We have sooo many big fish on the board slipping through our fingertips. Any person that signs w/ us on defense has a shot at immediate playing time. I think that is an advantage with us… but players aren’t going to sign when they have no clue who their position coach will be. Usually, the main reason a player chooses a program is their relationship that they develop with their position coach. I just hope this doesn’t get dragged out too long.
WE NEED to make the transition now. Bowden should be able to linger. Look at the programs who get a new coach and turn it around within a couple of years. Usually, even if your program has struggled but you get a high profiled coach you can still score a huge class. Look at Kiffen at UT… Urban did it at UF. A brand new coach brings a new vigor to a program. A sense of hope and excitement. Auburn’s recruiting class improved drastically last year once their signed a new head coach even though he wasn’t a popular pick.
by FSUneedsnewleadership! on Nov 12, 2009 10:53 PM EST reply actions
I agree, I'm just glad changes are in the works, I think JF makes a good decision
Regardless of if Bowden comes back next year, this hire would be construed as JF’s first duty as head coach and be scrutinized heavily over the next couple years, so I can imagine he realizes that and he’s doing his homework on this one.
Unfortunately I think Bowden comes back next year to get one last big paycheck and his swan song(even though I know he says he doesn’t want one, BS…) though I think he agrees to be let JF take things over behind the scenes and agrees to just be head statue in waiting to be crated up and sent to North Alabama…
I wish I could share your optimism about the next DC
but I don’t know of any reason that I can be confident that Jimbo will be a good evaluator of a what an excellent coach at FSU would be. I will say that the defensive talent available to an somewhat gifted defensive coach will probably be enough to elevate this team to 10+ wins for a long time.
"I'm falling apart, I'm barely breathing, With a broken heart thats still beating, In the pain is the healing, in Your Name I find meaning, So I'm holdin' on.. holdin' on to you."
defensive coach that is.
"I'm falling apart, I'm barely breathing, With a broken heart thats still beating, In the pain is the healing, in Your Name I find meaning, So I'm holdin' on.. holdin' on to you."
Well...
he’ll have a list of people he’s comfortable with, I’m assuming people he’s coached with in the past. He’ll also have an idea of what kind of defense they run and whether or not he feels it’ll be effective (I’m guessing since they’ll come from his experience there’s a chance they’ll be from the Saban tree). Then he’ll choose someone he believes to be a good recruiter and an energetic dedicated coach. That’s why, despite the fact that his background lies with offense, we believe he’ll make a good choice for a DC.
Recruiting
How many gray shirts did we have last year? This will bring your average down if you had 4 ot 5.
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
Only Stork if I remember correctly...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
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