FSU at Wake Forest Observations
Just some quick observations from watching the Wake game in person.
A. Seeing our defense live, they are significantly worse than seeing them on TV. Individually, Budd Thacker was abused for the (thankfully) few snaps he was in, and Korey Mangum was the poster child of what not to do....bad angles, poor approach to the ball carrier, jumping on underneath routes and leaving your corners one on one deep....it was BAD. I haven't been on the Mangum = sux train, and wanted to say it more a problem with scheme and no pressure, but.....wow. I'm just glad he is graduating. Hope he does something with his free education.
2. The Lady Spirithunters.....what are they for? As far as I can tell, they started the fight song after each score, and echoed any chant that a fan would start. They also do the completely stupid "what, what" after the S-T-A-T-E, which should be result in being beaten and throw out of the game. Seriously, who thinks this is cool? It's ridiculous, and completely unacceptable. Friends don't let friends do the "what, what". Please stop. Also, if they get free tickets to the games and travel to them, we need to be able to find better looking girls, just sayin'.
D. Our fans are pretty tame....maybe it's the noon kickoff, but there wasn't any excitement in our fans. I get that some people can't / won't stand for the whole game. But only on when our D gets the to 3rd down in the red zone? The most they were into it was when some guy came into the section 11 (1 section over) with a #15 UF jersey, and they started a "Tebow Sucks" chant. Okay, and maybe after Greg Reid's punt return for a touchdown, which was awesome, by the way.
@. I know the perception may be that our defense was good this game, but it wasn't. I don't know what was wrong with Skinner, but he was off today. He missed wide open receivers, especially on plays that would have gone for big yards. If I were a Wake fan, I would have been pissed with his performance. Seeing how he was playing, I'm not surprised they didn't pass more or try to change up their gameplan when they got behind. Wake stopped themselves more than we stopped them. I'm going to get off the defense now....
Green. It was very interesting to watch our coaches, especially on defense. It seems pretty clear to me that CTC is in charge of the defense. Mickey spent a lot of time watching the offense play while CTC talked to the defense. Mickey also played a more hands off role when the defense was on the field. He got on them a couple of times, but overall didn't seem to be involved in the overall execution of the game. He seemed to be more like a position coach than DC. Offensively, it's the Trickett and Jimbo show. If any of the other coaches are doing any coaching during the game, I didn't see it.
7. Okay, I have to go back to the defense. I could make a list of the things that they don't do at all, or that they had a major fail at during the game, but the thing that comes to mind first and foremost is that they don't make good decisions. I honsetly don't know if this is on the coaches or the players, but we many mistakes on defense. We had guys over-running their zone when we were in zone coverage. For example, Skinner rolled out and we rolle the zone to the side of the field, and rolled right out of bounds rather than tracking with the receivers in the zones...it was sad. We had guys making terrible decisions on getting to the ball carrier, almost like to avoid them. Mangum was exceptional at this...did it multiple times, including on the 20-ish yard TD run (far endzone, couldn't see where the ball was very well). Looked like the LB was being blocked and couldn't shed the block, and Mangum cut inside when Adams cut it outside. Almost looked like a dodge to me.
M. Our secondary doesn't like contact. J. Rob may be the only exception to this one, and only sometimes. Our secondary doesn't actually hit anyone. They get in position and let the running back / receiver run into/over them. At least when that happens they are in position, unlike what happened above (see 7). I'm pretty sure P. Rob doesn't like to tackle or hit, and he's not very good at it anyway. For a potential 1st rounder (I'm not a beliver anymore, BTW), he seems to try to stay out of plays as much as possible. On a completion in the flat, instead of coming up to make a hit on Adams, he continued to jog with his man (after seeing the completion) and wait for the LB to get out and make the play. Mangum looks like he's playing dodgeball instead of football. Jenije actually didn't look too bad, but let himself get run over a couple of times instead of hitting the ball carrier. Watching home games from '98-'01, this is probably the most disappointing thing I've seen from them.
29. The Bobby Bowden chants............really? The Mickey Andrews chants I'm okay with, until a Lady Spirithunter asks "Who's Mickey Andrews?". Yeah. No joke. The answer from another Lady Spirithunter, "A coach, I think. He's done after this year or next.". Wow. But at least they know the fight song, so that's good. And if they are getting free tickets to the games, or travel expenses or anything, they ought to be actually cheering and/or paying attention during the whole game....
Z. Individual Honers / Dishonors:
Dakota Watson......what to say? He is maddeningly inconsistent. One play he'll square his shoulders and make a hit, ala Nigel Bradham, and the next he's blowing the kill shot on Riley. THAT would have been a huge play, and taken any momentum away from WF. He tries to arm tackle too much. HIT SOMEONE. He is fast. He is athletic. IF he tackled better, he could be a very good NFL safety, IMO. But for a senior, I couldn't beleive how inconsistent he was. I think that's on the coaching.
Nigel Bradham = beast. Likes to hit. A rarity on our D.
Greg Reid = bottled lightning. Also always ready to congratulate a teammate on a play. Real team player.
Budd Thacker = more pancakes than a breakfast buffet. Seriously. I called it twice. My dad can verify (tickets were a Father's Day present). He likes BB, doesn't like TN, we agree to disagree.
Brandon Jenkins - will be a good one with some coaching. Good instincts, fluid movement, and athlete.
PRob - not sold on him. Not a shutdown corner (today at least) by any stretch. Looks timid, wants to stay out of the play as much as possible. There were times his man was wide open and Skinner didn't see.
McCray/McD - our DT future looks bright.
Nigel Carr - He played pretty well when he was in, I thought. Kept in control. He is the best cheerleader we had, and he didn't even have a sign! Looked to take some of the intensity onto the field with him this week, which was good to see.
Offense - no need to keep praising these guys. Pretty much everything they do is captured on TV reasonably well.
Congrats to EJ on a good first start. Hopefully with a decent defense next year we can get some more out of him in relief of CP7.
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Comments
I don't think the Lady Spirithunters get free tickets
it’s a student club, not something set up by the school. I have a few friends in there that went to the game. As for the lack of football knowledge from them, they are girls, at least they go to games. And they go to all sports too, not just the popular ones like most students, so I respect them for that.
But the “what what” drives me crazy, sounds stupid.
yeah, i was there too and the bobby bowden chant really irritated me. he does nothing to remotely deserve 2.5mil other than blow his nose a lot. i sat on the wake side and it seemed like our fans were pretty involved, not so much for wake’s fans. only time they cheered was on FSU 3rd down. mostly a quiet game. not having our band travel make a huge diff. at least no one started the wave. i hated that when i was at FSU. w/ that said, our O when it’s firsing on all cylinders is a beautiful thing to watch. our D, well, ya know. two more games.
If you heard a VERY loud "Jimbo Fisher" chant in between the Bobby Bowden chant coming from Section 12
That was me.
I was right behind the spirit hunters
and didn’t hear it. Wish I would have though, I would’ve joined in. As it was I was too shocked to do / say anything….
PBD, let me be the first to congratulate you on doing a great job with your first fanpost. Rec.
A. Seeing our defense live, they are significantly worse than seeing them on TV.
At least when you see them live you are not subjected to replays. Fortunately, ESPNU sucked the big one today and showed very little in the way of replays. I can’t wait to see the Sun replay for the offense highlights, but I will have to suffer through the defense also.
Friends don’t let friends do the “what, what”.
You can’t fix stupid.
@. I know the perception may be that our defense was good this game, but it wasn’t.
Your perception of our perception is wrong. I don’t think too many educated fans were fooled today. Over
We gave up over 450 yards I believe, and it was more than our offense had. Thank God Grobe pulled a Butch Davis on us at the 2 yard line and had Skinner throw a pick.
M. Our secondary doesn’t like contact.
I realize you mean the starters and I agree, and I could be wrong, but I believe I saw Moody and Harley lay some wood on a couple of plays.
Dakota Watson……what to say? He is maddeningly inconsistent.
Again I could be wrong, but I believe one time early in the game he had to pick up his jock and put it back on after a play. “Inconsistent” is very accurate.
Everything else you said was right on. Again, nice job buddy.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
A. Seeing our defense live
There is a downfall, however.
You get the initial view of the questionable personnel before the folks at home come back from commercial break.
by The K-Man on Nov 14, 2009 10:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Great post rec'd
Always nice to get some game observations especially the dynamics on the sidelines and other things you just can’t pick up during a telecast. Especially love the observations on P Robinson. He was a lock for a first round pick at the start of the year, but has hurt his draft stock for sure. I also have noticed he doesn’t like contact and plays terrible with his back to the qb. He has dropped to a late 2nd round or 3rd round pick.
please do a post like this again.
The bullet numbering was superb. “Green” was the kicker.
I’ve figured it out. Korey Mangum’s true calling is in competitive laser tag. Think about his strengths/skills:
-excellent at avoiding the major conflicts. No chance of get struck by laser crossfire.
-can slip and get down faster than anyone. Huge asset in a laser tag arena.
-hides behind linemen. You can’t shoot and double combo what you can’t see!
-comes in late to the pile. Perfect time to rack up points on stunned opponents.
MangumPI is also a great nickname for his world championship contending laser tag handle.
by The K-Man on Nov 14, 2009 8:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
And here I was thinking dodgeball was his calling
how did that quote go? If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a running back?
I’ve seen P.Rob come up and hit live before so I dont agree with this statement….However after seeing Bama,Fla,even South Carolina its clear our DB’s overall lack the heart to bring the boom on a consistant basis
I told others all season long our DT play this season hasnt been that bad compared to the DE’s who look like they have ZERO coaching
Credit to Jimbo proving he can flat out coach em up….EJ played well above my expectations he looked poised
Great post, enjoyed it.
I think Nick Moody has his moments, he has been burnt a number of times this year, he is not alone, but he loves contact. Speaking of safety’s what is going on with Terrance Parks? TP shut down Julio two years ago in an A-S game(not totally but Parks did look impressive) and has been irrelevant since he arrived in Tally.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
I was at the game as well.
some very good observations.
the bobby Bowden chant made me sick to my stomach, truly sick and really irritated,
Saw your sign I think
The “NC Nole fan, Mickey Andrews, You will be missed” sign?
That was me ...
unless there was another similar one.
My wife actually made it while we were watching the game. We held it up for a while, and then handed it to a friend when we had to leave as the kids were getting cranky.
Looked like
you ran out of room on one side…was that a trial attempt?
unfortunate
The anti-Bowden sentiment isnt as prevalent among the “average” fan, maybe casual fan is a better description. And you have to remember that such fans are the majority of the base.
You're right about Skinner
But he was due to have an off day and lose to us. Last year he didn’t play so well, but his first two seasons he led a charmed life especially vs. the Noles.
This was a shift
From bad back to bipolar. It proved that every now and then we can put on a BYU type of performance. It also proved that this is an utterly confusing team/athletic program.
>>---l>
PBD
nah that guy was maybe eight rows in front of me.
And we all know that the average fan still loves Bobby hell i was open to him going out on his own terms before the season but now that guy needs to go **** himself.
We may have been in the same row
I was Section 12, XX, seats 12-14
Linebacker play
I don’t know how Watson expects to make it at the next level with his tackling technique (or lack thereof). He might run a 4.4 and bench press a Buick, but what good is that if he is just tap the guy on the shoulder? He tackles way to high, as do a lot of our players… sounds like a coaching thing to me. Bradham is a machine. He is making plays on instinct and talent alone. Kendall Smith is small and not very talented. The onyl reason he is starting is because his competition is too inexperienced. This guy would not have gooten a scholarship to play for FSU 10 years ago. Here are the three biggest problems I see at that position:
-Poor tackling technique. Very little hitting and wrapping up. Basic football.
-No coverage capability. Again, the middle of the field is for sale when you play us.
-Inability to shed blocks. All our LBs do (even Bradham) is crash the line and get sucked into blocks due to bad decisions and poor positioning.
Notice that all of these things are correctable through proper coaching? Me too…
It is hard to blame them when they have gone uncoached for the past 3 years
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Agree
What I was amazed at is how evident the errors are in person. Due to camera angles and tight shots on the ball carrier, you miss a lot on TV sometimes. Just moved back to ACC country and looking forward to more FSU games in person, probably not many at Doak though =( Still a LONG way away. Unless ncnolefan or Zach_nole want to make a road trip out of it….hint hint
I agree with the types of errors, and I would add running themselves out of plays….almost like not realizing where you are on the field. I think that’s because we did run some zone, and didn’t do it well at all. Again, that’s 90% coaching, and 10% player recognition, but something that should have been fixed in practice on day 1 during Zone 101 – Basic Principles.
The K-Man Addendum
After a long day, I was able to watch the game on DVR just now. I’ll try to add some new thoughts not touched on yet:
Brandon Jenkins:
PBD mentioned his instincts above, but it was apparent he has better play recognition of any other DE (McNeil runner-up). Thank goodness he’ll only wear the scarlet “A” for Allen tfor 1 season. 3 years of competent coaching and he’s a Sunday player.
Everette Dawkins:
He’s really come on strong the past few weeks. I love his moves and ability to sniff out the ball amidst the chaos. As mentioned before, could flourish in the 3-4.
He was flagged for a ticky-tack roughing the QB penalty for coming down with his hands near Skinner’s face in the 4th quarter. Weak sauce, refs.
Jermaine Thomas:
Hits the hole with reckless abandon, but vision as well. He’s Antone with a purpose and the ability to remain erect (no double entendre)
His holding call in the first half was garbage. Pitiful attempt to keep Wake in the game….but it worked.
Zebrie Sanders:
Saw some serious aggression out of him. Finished some run blocks with authority. Also flagged for a BS holding.
Rodney Hudson:
Not much to say about our best Olineman this side of Mark McHale. And it’s not even close.
After the initial knee injury, he did return to the game for one play (the one after Jermaine’s pitch run was reviewed). He was immediately rolled up again, this time McMahon landed on that right leg. His flawless game ended in frustration and pain.
Life without Rodney Hudson:
I paid special attention to Brandon Davis after Rodney’s exit. I’m not qualified to grade line play, but I’d say he graded out close to perfect (perhaps 1 missed assignment, 2 tops). The was no discernible drop-off. He even looks like #62 out there. He’s parroted (a word I made up) Hudson’s body language and style. Squatty and mean.
McMahon:
I think his foot injury may have been a bigger deal last year than I thought. He still gets blown up by big, athletic tackles, but he was superb yesterday. I dine on crow.
Fortson:
His speed, body control, and play-making ability have no limits. None. He was flagged for a late hold during our game ending drive, just a result of laziness and overzealous ACC officials.
Ruby Rod and Taiwan:
The Ghostbusters of 3rd down. Who you gonna call? Those guys.
The announcers:
Desperately needed a violin during their sob stories about Bobby’s treatment. Disgusting talking points spoken from people with no ties to the situation.
…and last but not least….
Korey Mangum:
If I wanted to, I could type 800 words right now regarding the Texas massacre I just witnessed on DVR. But there are no words.
I will say this with a good deal of confidence: If Myron Rolle was playing Rover on Saturday, Wake Forest is lucky to score 10 points. Certainly no more than 14. I’ll leave it at that, gang.
by The K-Man on Nov 16, 2009 2:47 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Hudson is so fun to watch
If you want to see him throw down some serious blocking check out JT’s TD run. He seals off the DT fast, then boom smashes the linebacker which actually helps to take out the 3rd level defender too. It is unreal. He takes 2.5-3 guys out of the play all by himself. Just awesome.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Nov 17, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Shame he is going to miss this weekend
But God knows he needs to be healthy against UF just to keep EJ from dying on the field
Tomahawk Nation: Top 10 NCAA Football Blog
Totally agree about Davis
I thought he came in with some serious fire and really attacked. His (agile, fast) footwork I thought compared favorably to Hudson. I did not see a drop-off in line play with our (by leaps and bounds) best lineman out of the game.
Anyone have game film to see how Davis did against NG Robinson?
I've finally got the TN numbering system down....
Thanks for the read, good stuff!
I thought Brandon Jenkins made some noise in spring and we’d have seen more of him on the field by now. I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten more playing time.
Our entire defense does way too much arm tackling…it’s pathetic. Sometimes I feel like I’m watching tiny mites play only to realize its the Noles on defense.
Ghostbusters traveled in 3’s right….need to add Reed to that list.
Mangum…Mangum…Mangum….every time he’s on the field I die a little inside. When he plays we’re a man short everytime. I am absolutley clueless as to why the fans seem to be the only people that notice this.
Agreed about our dbacks and their fear of hitting or getting hit. The whole point of playing safety, I always thought, was you get to charge and hit someone from like 10 yards out. Instead of looking forward to doing that, I get the feeling our guys run from it.
Agreed on Watson too. Does he try to tackle ppl around the neck? Is this what Amato teaches our guys?
Sorry I’m rambling…its Monday.
Agreed on Watson too. Does he try to tackle ppl around the neck? Is this what Amato teaches our guys?
You are assuming that Amato teaches
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Joking around, our best tackles the last couple weeks were...
In the Clemson game Ponder and the Punter and in the Wake game, whoever it was that laid the wood on the Wake defensive player after the one interception, wonder who’s teaching them to tackle. Obviously not a D coach.
Also wonder if CTC was just trying to look good, see if he might be retained if he actually looks like he’s coaching still.
Fortson was the one that laid out the WF DB
Knocked him out cold I believe. Best hit of the game.
One more thing on Watson’s tackling technique… I think he takes that saying, “Rip their heads off” literally.
Don't forget Hopkins' tackle to end the first half against Clemson.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
With our Rover, it's worse than playing a man short.
If we schemed with 10 people in mind, our defensive numbers would improve. Problem is that he’s depended upon to perform certain assigments, and just doesn’t show up.
Think about hockey. The shorthanded team adjusts their scheme during the power play. If one player just flat out did nothing on the ice, they would be worse off at full strength than knowingly shorthanded. I’m being completely serious here.
by The K-Man on Nov 16, 2009 1:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Monday Presser
Andrews: “Probably 100 yards of their offense was because we didn’t get to the proper gaps.”
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