Men's Basketball Preview and Game Thread: Stetson Hatters vs. Florida State Seminoles, 7pm EST
by TrueCubbie on Nov 18, 2009 1:00 PM EST
in FSU Basketball
167 comments
Stetson Hatters at Florida St. Seminoles, Nov 18, 2009 7:00 PM EST
After an impressive 87-61 win over the Jacksonville Dolphins, the Seminoles turn their attention to the Stetson Hatters, the second of three Atlantic Sun Conference opponents in a row. With the exception of the last 5 minutes of the first half, the Seminoles played an excellent season opener. Michael Snaer scored 14 points in his college debut and Solomon Alabi scored 17. The Seminoles shot 59% from the floor. Tonight, they turn their attention to the Stetson Hatters who enter the game 1-1, coming off a 74-46 loss to the University of Florida.
vs.
Game Time: 7pm EST
Television: This is only one of two games that will not be televised this year.
Last year, the Seminoles defeated the Hatters 79-77 at home on a game that finished by Ryan Reid taking a charge as the clock ran out. The Seminoles shot an eFG% of 45% last year and turned the ball over on 23.6% of their possessions. Toney Doulas an company only shot 1-10 from the three point line while the Hatters went 13 of 32. Toney Douglas led the way with 26 points and Chris Singleton posted a double-double with 10 and 10.
As you can see, this was not an easy win for the Seminoles:
Compare that to the game over Jacksonville on Monday night:
Coming into the game, Stetson averaged 58 points per game while giving up 69.5 per game. They have only played two games, say what you will about those stats. During the off season, Steton's Coach, Derek Waugh, admitted that the team needed to shoot more three pointers, stating that it was one of the keys to survive in the Atlantic Sun conference. They are averaging 18 three point shots per game, which is no different than what they averaged for the entire 2008-2009 season. However, during their match up with Florida, it seemed that Stetson was willing to throw up threes at ill-advised times, but a majority of their strategy was to try and penetrate in to the paint.
Here is a pretty typical offensive set for Stetson. The ball started high on the perimeter and was passed into the wing position that is illustrated below:
Next, you essentially have an exchange on the wing as their post player makes a v-cut and comes to the high post area before he receives the ball, which is illustrated in the second image.
The wing player then essentially runs a vertical pick and roll to get the player who is on the block the ball again. The player on the block was the one who started the play and was running from right to left in the initial image. This pick and roll type play results in a mismatch at the top of the key and an open three point shot for the Hatters:
The Gators had late and poorly timed switches on the play resulting in the gap. The defender for the player shooting the ball is hidden behind the larger wing player who is on the elbow and caught between a rock and hard place. The two player at the top of the screen ran a pick for each other, essentially switching positions. You can also see the player in the lower left hand corner already taking off down court on the long shot. The other thing to note is the positioning of the Stetson players and their ability to rebound.
Here are a couple of other images of how Stetson likes to set up their offensive sets:
The images show three primary offensive sets: a 2-3 set, a 3-2 set and a 1-4. Florida played strictly man against Stetson and it was clear that Stetson tried to spread the floor and win the one on one matchup at the guard position. The Hatters also played a lot of two and three man games on the wings, which essentially cut the ammount of space they had to play in half.
Defensively, they showed a number of looks to slow down the Gators, as indicated by the score, it didn't work. Florida took advantages of Stetson's misatkes and got out quickly in the half court.
The Hatters played a good ammount of man to man defense, but moved into zone on almost every other possession. Of note, they played a significant ammont of 2-1-2 zone, which is essentially a 2-3 zone with the center playing higher in the pain, as illustrated here:
As you can immediately see, there are some huge openings on the wings and a relatively large vacancy in the low paint under the basket. The void under the basket was exagerated by the aggressive press that the center player of the box played. This will be demonstrated below. First, here is a simple diagram of what the 2-1-2 zone looks like on paper:
One of the primary reasons to use this type of zone is to establish a triangle of rebounders in the low post area. If you play a typical 2-3 zone, the wing players are further away from the post. This type of zone can be used to break out into a fast break, but is easily broken down by good jump shoting in the soft spots that are located just inside the three point line on a 45 degree angle from the basket. The way that Stetson plays this zone does not help them with rebounding. Look at this series to see what we mean:
A few images were left out of the sequence, but you can see how Florida moves the ball relatively quickly around the top of the key. In the last image, the central defender for Stetson moves very high in the post. The Florida player passed it to the player on the wing who hit and open three. This type of defensive spacing creates a lot of passing lanes and open shots. Plus, none of the Stetson players are in good position to box out.
Here are the likely starters for the Hatters:
F #5 Ridge Graham 6'5 208lbs RS Fr Stuart, FL (Martin County HS)
F #13 Graeme Radford 6'10 240lbs JR (Victoria, Australia)
G #2 A.J. Smith 6'0 175lbs Sr (Cocoa Beach HS)
G #3 Brandon Williams 5'10 170lbs (Monsignor Pace HS, Miami)
G #15 Mark Lohuis 6'4 205lbs (Vero Beach HS)
As mentioned earlier, the success of Stetson will be dependent on their ability to consitently make three point shots. The reason they stayed in the game last year was their three point shooting and our lack there of. Radford and Graham are very strong players who will battle in the post. Outside of Radford, the Hatters only have two other players over 6'5. Once again, the Seminoles will have a huge size advantage. They will have difficulty containing the quadruple headed monster of Alabi, Reid, Gibson and Singleton.
The Seminoles will start the same five as the Jacksonvile game: Alabi, Reid, Singleton, Dulkys and Kitchen. As noted in the last game, Hamilton went to his bench early and often. FSU plays 8 games between now and December 6th. Only then will they have a few days off in a row. Therefore, the rotation off the bench will be frequent as the teams gets its playing legs and gets into game shape.
Keys to the Game:
1. Slow the Hatters down. With a smaller lineup, the Hatters will want to run and shoot threes in transition. The Seminoles need to play great perimiter defense and keep the Hatters to a low three point shooting percentage. Do not give this team confidence.
2. Get it done from the free throw line. Don't give away easy points. The Noles should get to the line quite frequently during this game. The Gators were able to get Stetson into foul trouble early.
3. Adapt to the multiple defenisve fronts. Stetson will throw the kitchen sink at FSU on defense. Beating a team like FSU would be huge for the Hatters. Given the fact they have so many seniors on the team, they will try to confuse the young Seminoles. Be patient and take what they give you.
4. Continue to develop the confidence of Alabi and Snaer. Both had outstanding games. Make this the norm.
5. Limit turnovers.
Florida State leads this series 38-11 and has won 14 straight. The last time that Stetson beat the Seminoles was in 1975. Once again, there is no reason that the streak shouldn't continue and the Seminoles move to 2-0 against the Atlantic Sun conference this year. Look for another balanced score sheet. The Seminoles had multiple players in double digits against Jacksonville. They will need that night in and night out to replace Toney Douglas's scoring.
Prediction: Seminoles 79 Stetson 65
Officials: Karl Hess (Referee), Ed Corbet (Umpire) Tony Greene (Umpire) Karl Hess is an ACC official and has called the more games for FSU than any other official. In 5 games this year, he has favored the home team, calling 5 fewer fouls.
Go NOLES!!!
Cheers,
TC
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Great Preview
If you like following LIVE tempo-based stats for this game, you can check them out here…
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=3610
We track things like offensive efficiency, lead safeness, off/def rebounding percentages among other things.
Is it safe to say that Stetson just fails to execute their 2-1-2?
Will playing against a 2-1-2 team help us to prepare for 2-3 teams?
2-1-2 and 2-3 are pretty similar
As TC mentioned, the wing defenders are pinched slightly toward the low blocks as opposed to being extended out further towards the corners, and the Middle Defender is at the high post, rather than directly in front of the basket.
A good high post passer can absolutely destroy the 2-1-2, as long as he can quickly diagnose the side the double team is going to come from. The same goes to anyone who can dibble penetrate into the soft spots and kick the ball to the open wing.
I have no idea what the middle defender was doing in that picture that TC posted. He is way out of position. Three guys are defending the same 10 ft area.
This seems to have some decent diagrams on ways to attack the 2-1-2 (or 2-3) zone.
Excellent summary FSU44...
Stetson was very aggressive with that middle post player throughout the game and they got burned. That is just their version of it I guess. Trying to protect against dribble penetration.
www.Tomahawknation.com
You can purchase the game to watch on your computer tonight
link
It is $7.95, kind of a rip off for a Stetson game but if you don’t live in Tally that’s the only option.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions
Stetson was founded
by the the guy made a bunch of money on Stetson hats. It’s a Philiotrampic school much like Stanford, Ball State, and Eckerd College in St. Pete. That’s why their the Hatters.
Gibson looked sloppy on that last drive to the basket
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions
alley oop
loucks to demercy
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 7:26 PM EST reply actions
lolz
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Seriously, Bobby. Go Away.
I like how this isn't turning out like last year's Stetson game
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Seriously, Bobby. Go Away.
We haven't won anything important yet
But this team clearly has talent…
The game @ OSU should be awesome
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Seriously, Bobby. Go Away.
46-10
Blowing out bad teams is more indicative of a good team than winning close against good competition.
Gibson finished strong in the second half
absolutely embarrassed one of their guards going for a lay up, and had a nicely timed jump to block the final shot of the half. Also Marlins he said basket interference because Gibson went up to dunk a missed shot while it was still bouncing around the rim (he also hung on it).
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 7:52 PM EST reply actions
Kinda
did a coupon code for a free month of it a couple of weeks ago (doesn’t work anymore).
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
wish i hadn't spent 8 bucks getting the game
just kidding. that would have been awful
by tdchrisdavis on Nov 18, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you!
That’s awesome, glad we got to watch some of that great basketball. I REALLY like where our team is going this year. This is the first year in recent memory where I’ll be surprised if we DON’T make the tournament.
by seminoleballer on Nov 18, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone know how hard it would be to
get a ticket to the UF game next week. I’m heading down south and thinking about stopping in HOG town to watch the game?
46-10 @half
.594 shooting percentage (19-32) including 4-11 from 3. 4-4 from the FT line – including 2 by Singleton! :)
And thank you so much for the atdhe link
I gotta remember to check myp2p…
Alabi saved by the foul. Poor position on the move there. Got behind the basket.
www.Tomahawknation.com
There isn't a single Stetson player with more than 3 points so far in the game.
www.Tomahawknation.com
Still quite respectable
I’d like to keep their point total to less than 40.
Too much "prime-time"
Not enough fundamentals.
I do like the made free throws though
That will be important down the stretch…
interesting
Stetson had pushed their 3-pt percentage to 50% (and it went down on the last miss)
WF trails High Point by 5 (3025)
with 8 minutes left in the 1st half
Ditto
Great shot and plays tough defense.
by seminoleballer on Nov 18, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
80 is well within reach
The greedy in me wants under 30… :)
Like Stetson last year. Totally let them back in the game. Jacksonville as well.
www.Tomahawknation.com
Seriously
we were never out of any game – but neither was the opponent.
Thank marlins44...he found it. But, you're quite welcome. Thanks for hanging out.
www.Tomahawknation.com
Which is great compared to the other night...I thought we would be at the line a lot more than we were.
www.Tomahawknation.com
.917 looks better than 1.000
with 1.000, you could just be 1-1 :)
Follows with the steal
And the coast to coast phi slamma jamma
Need to see us on the road
And against better competition (obviously)
You know this reminds me of
When our football team used to blow people out and everyone leave by the 4th Q
Can't wait to play FL
any idea why we’re not playing them on the usual eve of the football game date?
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 8:49 PM EST reply actions
24th on Seminoles.com schedule
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 18, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions
That sucks
it takes our victory in BB away from staining their inevitable football win.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Nov 19, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
ok - we can't look past Mercer
They just beat Providence in Providence…
oops
they lost to Providence by 2 points my bad…
thanks for getting my hopes up
This OOC schedule needs some more strength
The Old Spice Classic should add some strength to our OOC schedule
http://www.oldspiceclassic.com/bracket.html
We play Iona and then
Alabama or Baylor and then
Creighton, Michigan, Marquette or Xavier
and of course, there’s UF, Auburn and Ohio St.
All in all, it won’t be all cream-puffs
by CelticPride on Nov 18, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like we played a pretty good game.
I wish I could have seen it though.
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