Florida State's Defense The Cure For Ailing Offenses
Note: This isn't entirely Mickey Andrews' fault. He didn't want Chuck Amato or some of the other family friends inept defensive coaches Bobby Bowden forced upon him. He's been incredibly unselfish for more than 20 years, and dealt with the ridiculous Jeff Bowden circus, producing top defense after top defense. It must be hard for him to continue to see his position coaches get nothing out of their players. 4 more games, FSU fans, 4 more games. So with that, let's ask the question:
How bad is Florida State's "defense"?
- In just 5 conference games so far, the 'Noles have already allowed more points than they did in any other full ACC Season (8 games). That's pretty difficult to do.
- In just 5 ACC games, they've already allowed more yards than the entire conference seasons of 2006 and 2004 (and surely before).
- In ACC play, they are the only defense allowing more than 7 yards per snap. And yes, Duke is still in the ACC. Snap, 7 yards. Snap, 7 yards. Snap, 7 yards. Oh, and they significantly benefit from opponent's kneel-downs! (5 for about -10 yards).
- In their last two home games, they've surrendered 91 points and 1080 yards.
- In conference play, they've allowed more touchdowns (25) than they've tallied tackles for loss (24). .
- At the very least, you figure the defense could hold an opposing offense to a field goal once in a while, right? Sorry, but no. In conference play, FSU's defense has allowed 25 Touchdowns and only 3 field goals.
- Florida State's offense rarely turns the ball over and opposing offenses usually start with poor field position. But that doesn't seem to matter. FSU has allowed scoring drives of 80, 76, 80, 74, 80, 38, 80, 12, 52, 45, 83, 73, 61, 69, 44, 73, 80, 25, 79, 88, 65, 80, 66, 75, 28, 61, 73, and 59. And that is just in ACC play! 8 TD drives of 80+ yards! 15 TD drives of 70+ yards!
- And I have no idea why anyone would ever throw on FSU. In their 5 ACC games, The 'Noles are allowing 6 yards per carry. Under 3.5 yards is the typical goal, and I guess average defenses can live with 4 or 4.5, but 6? Seriously? 5 conference games, 192 carries, 1159 yards allowed (193 yards allowed per game. And it's not all Georgia Tech. Boston College ran for 5.7, UNC for 6.7, and NC State 5.7
- Well, I guess if I was averaging 8.8 yards every throw, I might think about passing the ball. Wait, FSU's 5 conference opponents averaged 8.8 yards per throw against FSU? Seriously? Ok then.
And while all of that is extremely demoralizing, and there are only 7 defenses in the entire country that are legitimately worse than Florida State (if you are curious, they are Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, UNLV, Hawaii, Idaho, Eastern Michigan, and North Texas), I think the best way to get a handle on just how bad this defense is, is to look at how much better each FSU opponent played did against the 'Noles than in any of their other games. Continue reading...
Here's the table of every one of FSU's defensive performances this season against Division-1 competition.
| Florida State's Defensive Performance Against Division 1 Teams | |||||||
| Opponent | Miami | at BYU | USF | at BC | Ga Tech | at UNC | NCSt |
| Plays | 74 | 53 | 60 | 57 | 63 | 68 | 69 |
| Yards Per Play Allowed | 6.4 | 9 | 6.3 | 7.1 | 8.5 | 4.9 | 7.8 |
| Rushes | 29 | 18 | 37 | 34 | 55 | 38 | 36 |
| Yards/ Rush Allowed | 3.4 | 6.3 | 5 | 5.7 | 7.4 | 6.7 | 5.7 |
| Passing Plays | 35 | 35 | 23 | 23 | 8 | 30 | 33 |
| Yards/ Pass Play Allowed | 10.8 | 10.3 | 8.2 | 9.1 | 16.4 | 2.7 | 10.1 |
- Yards-Per-Play is used because it is the best standard measure of defense. Total yards is moronic (please don't try to argue this, just use the search feature at right). It really isn't the fault of the defense if the offense allows the opponent to get 17 possessions or take the ball in red zone. How many snaps did you have, what did you do with them (or allow your opponent to do with theirs)? Simple enough.
- Sacks have been re-allocated to Passing plays (since they are the result of a failed passing play and not a run play)
- Kneel-Downs are not included as they are not a competitive play.
Yeah, that's pretty disgusting.
But what is really, really bad, is that all of Florida States D1 opponents posted their best offensive day of the year (v. BCS conference competition)... against Florida State! Literally, each team has either scored their most points of the year, had their most yards of the year, or had their most yards per play of the year, against Florida State. A few have done all three! Take a look:
| Yards Per Play of Florida State's Opponents | |||||||||||||
| Miami | BYU | USF | BC | GT | UNC | NCST | |||||||
| at FSU | 7.4 | FSU | 8.9 | WVU | 6.4 | FSU | 7.1 | at FSU | 8.5 | ECU | 6.9 | at FSU | 7.8 |
| Gtech | 7.1 | at OU | 6 | at FSU | 6.3 | NCSt | 7.1 | at Vandy | 7.3 | FSU | 4.9 | Pitt | 6.6 |
| Clem | 7 | TCU | 4.3 | at Cuse | 5.8 | CMU | 6.8 | at MissSt | 7 | at VT | 4.4 | Duke | 6.4 |
| OU | 5.7 | Cinci | 5.4 | at ND | 5.5 | Clem | 6.5 | at Uconn | 4.1 | at Wake | 5.5 | ||
| at Wake | 5.6 | at Pitt | 4.6 | Wake | 5.4 | at UVA | 5.7 | at Gtech | 3.5 | at BC | 4.8 | ||
| at UCF | 5 | Kent St | 5.3 | UNC | 5.1 | UVA | 2.9 | So. Car | 2.4 | ||||
| at VT | 2.9 | Vtech | 5.1 | ||||||||||
| at Clem | 1.1 | at Mia | 4.2 | ||||||||||
| The Canes posted their best offensive performance on the road, in their first game of the season (notoriously tough for offense).
UM also posted their season high in Points and Total Yards. Oh, and Tallahassee natives will hate this, but Miami had more yards and yards per play at FSU than they did at home against FAMU!
|
BYU's offense moved the ball at almost 50% more yards per play than their next best game.
They also doubled their next best point total, and had 110 more yards than their next best performance.
More ridiculousness? BYU did better against Florida State than they did against Tulane, Colorado State, Utah State, UNLV, and San Diego State! |
This wasn't USF's top performance, but it was their best.
They were on the road, starting a true freshman quarterback in his first ever start, and only missed the mark by 0.1 yards per play.
Plus, USF shut down their offense for almost an entire quarter, deflating their numbers a bit. |
Boston College posted their best day against Florida State and like USF did, BC also shut down their offense for more than a quarter. |
8.5 yards per play was, of course, Georgia Tech's best game of the year.
Their performance was 15 % better better than their next best performance.
Georgia Tech did not punt.
This was the 2nd game in which FSU's defense allowed more than 530 yards at home. |
Hey! FSU's defense didn't allow an opponent to have their best game of the year! ...
But, they did allow them their best game of the year against BCS competition.
This was the most yards, points, and points per play UNC put up against any BCS conference team.
Also, UNC rushed 38 times for 6.7 yards per rush, which begs the question: "why did UNC ever throw the ball?" |
Trifecta! 6 Touchdowns (42 points) and 538 yards. 20% more yards per play than they managed against anyone else.
FSU's best defense was the 'Pack's abysmal clock management at the end of the half.
Also, NC State had 20% more yards per play against Florida State, on the road, than they did at home against Gardner Webb and Murray State! |
|||||||
This is really a shame. FSU's defense is full of highly recruited defensive players. Everyone in the country wanted these guys. The players deserve much better from their defensive coaches. And yes, I know that this defensive coaching staff has only 4 games left. FSU should be dedicated to providing their players with the best possible coaching. If the defensive staff put forth any effort at all, this defense could go from "not one of the best 100 defenses in the country" to "below average", and the 'Noles would likely be 7-1.
It is not the players. Look at the defenses who are as poor as Florida State. Do they have any 4* or 5* players? I think not. In fact, the defensive talent level, when it got to Florida State, is higher than that of the offense. That offense, coached by hungry, competent (to put it mildly) coaches, is one of the finest attacks in the country despite having few quality players left over from the 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes (those classes, of course, comprise the Juniors and Seniors).
It's not the players. But it should be about the players. The defensive staff needs to conduct itself with professionalism for their last 4 games at FSU. They are paid very well, much more than the Sun Belt Conference coaches, whose unit their defense currently emulates. The defensive coaches owe it to their players. The defensive coaches owe it to the offensive players (who have been oh so patient and mastered their cliches). And they damn sure owe it to the offensive staff, which is truly a model of excellence, dominating every opposing defense with a cast of freshmen, sophomores, and juniors.
Oh, and it is not the youth. FSU fans, don't let anyone, even for a second, try to tell you the defense is young. Aside from having a lot of raw physical talent (still undeveloped by this poor excuse for a staff), this defense starts 6 seniors 3 Juniors, and 2 sophomores. It is a decidedly veteran group, and one that has been robbed of even a sliver of quality defensive coaching in their careers. And it's a football tragedy that they haven't been taught even the most basic of college football fundamentals, or that they look confused, not even understanding where to line up. That's on the coaching. It's not on the players.
This is the problem created when a deified head coach runs his program like a charity; determined to help fallen coaching friends who are past their prime or who never had one. Fortunately for FSU fans, this will all soon be over.
4 more games. 4 more games.
0 recs |
127 comments
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Comments
4 more games tell what the end of this season.
4 more games tell we make a bowl with luck and play some game late Dec. and have to wait tell Jan to get a new DC and co to come in and hit the ground running. My question is can a new DC and staff fix whats going on. Can we coach this talent that we have and get it to at least avg. for next year? Thats all we need. I want to see us avg in 2010 and above avg in 2011. Can we still get the top recruits we need to fix the holes we have in the depth charts? How much time will it take to get us from below 100 in the nation in def to closer to 70-60 or higher? can this change happen in a year? I hope so but I guess only time will tell. Also I guess its up to BB if he wants to stay and kill the Def even more or leave so we can get some help.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Nov 2, 2009 6:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sure we can...
…if we get the right defensive staff on hand. If that happens, then yes I definitely see a HUGE turnaround by our defense next season. We already know Mickey is done at seasons end (not the note I wanted to see him leave upon), Jody Allen and Chuck Amato needs to get “da boot”. While I have seen Haggins churn up some good DTs, the last few years has been a bust in that position also. So he may need to be replaced. Maybe bring T-Buck over from Str & Cond to coach the secondary, a new LB coach (we need Kevin Steele back IMO) and a good DC that can coach well and can run multiple-schemes and adjust accordingly. If we can replace those with good staff, then yeah we will have at worst an average defense next season considering the talent we do have.
by CPNole on Nov 2, 2009 7:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that Steele left
on less than agreeable terms. Besides, he obviously wants to be a DC, which is where he is now at Clemson. It’d be a huge downgrade for him to come back. But I hear your sentiment, loud and clear.
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think our best hope is Meyer being scared of an injury and pulling some of their stars early. If they keep the foot on the gas (which is possible if Tebow is in a Heisman race or if they are perceived as needing style points) I think they could score 70 on us.
by 38Noles on Nov 2, 2009 7:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't forsee any trickery, though
Having said that, he’ll be able to line up, run off tackle to the outside in either direction, playaction us to death.
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tebow can basically "name his stats"
It is totally going to provide a coronation opportunity for his heisman campaign. Last week before voting, he can run for as many yards/tds as he wants and throw for as many against a rival.
I really hate that we’re going to be the stat line that pushes him over the top during a decidedly lackluster year for him.
by roninscar on Nov 2, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We'd be making the giant assumption that Spiller isnt already catapulted into unreachable heights by our D.
by The K-Man on Nov 2, 2009 11:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
It will be ugly
Here is what is has done so far against good to decent defenses
Team – Rank – YPC
GT – 39 – 4.4
BC – 3 – 4.5
TCU – 10 – 4.3
MD – 56 – 4.0
WF – 46 – 11.8
UM – 12 – 5.8
He also had 18 catches for 15 yds/catch.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Question about Trickett
Was this a Bobby hire? Or Jimbo?
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He was hired before Jimbo
but this was during the period when they were setting the table for Jimbo, bringing in Trick, Dausey (basically the crew from LSU) so it seemed to kind of anticipate Jimbo’s hiring. At the time Trickett got a guaranteed contract, and spoke about coaching with a legend etc.
by roninscar on Nov 2, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least there's one feather
left in Bowden’s headdress.
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would give Dave Hart most of the credit
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fisher's agent insisted on Trickett coming.
But you make a good point.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then Jimbo's agent is also brilliant
This makes me think he’ll be going after the best available coaching (see: NFL) for the defensive side of the ball.
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive coaches are also being negligent with the future of some FSU players!
Have you seen all the “walking wounded” with bandages and casts? If they’re wearing a bandage or cast, it’s a good bet that they probably shouldn’t be playing IMO.
The poor recruiting on the defensive side of the ball has led to a lack of depth. Now, the coaches are playing guys that are hurt b/c of the lack of depth. If I were a player or a player’s parent, I would very upset.
These players could be putting their futures at risk by playing just to save face for the defensive coaching staff.
by FSUjab on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bowden will be back next year...
Or so it seems from recent Bowden comments. Says he is coming back but will let Fisher help him decide on new DC. No mention of firing and hiring of other defense staff, but from what I’m reading Bowden will be back,,,,,,Be ready for another year of dysfunction.
by Class of '71 on Nov 2, 2009 9:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
At this point I think the choice is out of Bowden's control
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From I have read a verbal promise was made by TK
that as long as he (TK) was there Bowden could decide when he would leave. So this is the card Bowden is playing and it seems that who ever is in charge of the athletic dept. is giving him his way. There is still no one who will stand up to Bowden and do what is right for FSU.
by Class of '71 on Nov 2, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Smith stood up
And there are boosters pulling hundreds of thousands of dollars off the table until the “ship is righted”
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not binding
While it was a poor choose of words, it was more a show of support than a form of verbal contract. It also leaves a whale size hole in it. Say Bobby can stay but he has no power. Say he can stay but cut his pay by 3/4. You basically give him an offer you know he will not accept so it is his choice if he doesn’t take it.
Personally I think that is what some are hoping will happen by floating that BB can come back as long as Jimbo has all the hiring and firing power. That scenario would basically leave BB as a stranger on his one coaching staff, wandering the sideline like some random guy with Alzheimer’s. The lack of butts in seats and dwindling of Booster funds has finally become too loud to ignore though. BB will either be given a my way or the highway contract, or no contract at all. He has no bargaining power left.
by osceolafan850 on Nov 2, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't comeback if you don't have a contract.
It is VERY possible they just don’t extend a contract to him.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Nov 2, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His comments do not matter.
It is not within his control.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about the Samford game scheduled for next year?
by ricobert1 on Nov 2, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um... we'll win?
;)
If Bowden has elected to throw everyone under the bus and stay I’ll be shocked.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Truth Hurts
Pretty much sums up another informative piece from FSUn/TN. I watched the replay last night and focused as much as I could on our D. The things that stand out are arm tackles or lack of tackling fundamentals, players out of position, players looking dazed and confused and the lack of discipline. Several times I found myself saying, WTF is Mangum doing?
I think one of the announcers mentioned that this defense has allowed over 900 yards on just about 19 or 20 pass plays. Horrible…
by CSI Nole on Nov 2, 2009 10:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
How Mangum and Jenije are still playing ove Harley/Demps/Rhodes/Bright/Purvis is amazing. How can that be justified?
Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.
by levynole on Nov 2, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
at least for the first person mentioned, there is zero justification if you reason rationally. none.
and Clint Purvis may be a liability in the passing game, but he’s not afraid to lay the wood.
by The K-Man on Nov 2, 2009 11:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
but thats one
of the problems recently at FSU. On the defensive side of the ball, our guys wont hit anyone. Other then Everette Brown laying the smack down on QBs and RBs on his side…no one else at FSU drops the boom on offensive backs these days. The most recent “big” hit was last season when Kenny Ingram laid out a WR from Chattanooga in our first couple games against FCS opponents. But other then that, you have to look back in the days of Ernie Sims, Marcus Ball and Buster Davis to find any defensive player laying the wood on anybody. Its really no surprise that opponents are averaging 7yrds per snap and giving up such big plays. Not are they only out of position 90% of the time, the other 10% they just try to arm tackle……that isnt cutting it. You got to hit a mother ……. Seriously, Christian Ponder hits people harder on his runs then our defensive guys do on “attempted” tackles.
by CPNole on Nov 2, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, Bradham earlier this season?
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Nov 2, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That hit on the jacksonville state
qb at the end of the game was a monster
by StM on Nov 2, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
yeah forgot about that one….maybe because it was in the last 13 seconds of the game. Also at that point it was nothing more then Bradham venting some anger from missing about 5 or so tackles during the game because that dipshit Amato dont know how to utilize arguably the best linebacker talent in the country with Bradham, Carr and Watson.
by CPNole on Nov 3, 2009 3:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradham and Moody like to hit
Problem with Moody is he gets hurt, but he put it on some people Saturday.
by truenole87 on Nov 2, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The announcers said our team doesn't scare any opponents now
When our defense was scary it included such heavy hitters as Peter Boulware, Reinard Wilson, Derrick Brooks. Do we not get heavy hitters in recruiting anymore, or when they get here, are they not coached right?
Old School Nole
by chokeindoak on Nov 2, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not coached correctly
Everyone in the country was after our players coming out of high school.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Uncensored
This is what I keep stressing to everyone. There’s no way possible we fought over the exact same kids as other elite programs in the nation and just so happened to end up with all the duds. Kids that signed on our dotted line were and are talented enough to sign on UF’s, Alabama’s, Clemson’s, Virginia Tech’s.
by truenole87 on Nov 3, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate (but I understand and believe everything you're saying)...
But you can’t in one paragraph say:
Yards-Per-Play is used because it is the best standard measure of defense. Total yards is moronic (please don’t try to argue this, just use the search feature at right). It really isn’t the fault of the defense if the offense allows the opponent to get 17 possessions or take the ball in red zone. How many snaps did you have, what did you do with them (or allow your opponent to do with theirs)? Simple enough.
and then say :
But what is really, really bad, is that all of Florida States D1 opponents posted their best offensive day of the year (v. BCS conference competition)… against Florida State! Literally, each team has either scored their most points of the year, had their most yards of the year, or had their most yards per play of the year, against Florida State. A few have done all three!
The PPG and YPG shouldn’t matter in the 2nd argument if you disqualify them in the first one…
This is really a shame. FSU’s defense is full of highly recruited defensive players. Everyone in the country wanted these guys.
I don’t know that many teams were fighting of Smiley Harris, Korey Mangum, Budd Thacker, or Craig Yarborough. 3 of these guys are starters for us…
I think the pitifulness of this defense has you flustered, and you have so much info to support that fact that it’s hard to know where to begin. It’s a great write up. I appreciate the time you put into looking up the stats and laying them out there for us…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Nov 2, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
re: total yards/yards per play
The .1 difference in USF’s performance against FSU v. WVU can easily be explained by the prevent offense USF ran in the second half. I would say that difference is statistically insiginficant and misleading.
The UNC game obviously had a bigger gap, but they simply suck at passing. (2.7 yards/pass). It wasn’t anything our defense did.
You make a fair point about supporting the argument with total yards. It really wasn’t necessary to do, I think the Yards Per Play data sums it up just fine.
However, the reason why total yards allowed is a bad statistic is because it doesn’t control for how well that team’s offense is performing. When you know your offense is playing extremelyy well (as we do here), scoring points, eating clock, etc., total yards does meaning something. It is a reflection on the length and number of drives allowed by the defense.
What I really want to see is an analysis of Points Per Play (or better yet, change in Points Per Play) against FSU v. against other D-1 Competition. Based on the number of big plays allowed, and points scored, I’d be shocked if FSU wasn’t one of the worst teams in the country in making offenses more “explosive”.
by fsu44 on Nov 2, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I include it because
in spite of my explanation, a lot of people just don’t get the usefulness of yards per play.
And Harris, Thacker, and Yarborough don’t really start for us now. They get some PT, but 2 of those are 3-stars at least.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody wanted these guys?
Yarborough has mercifully been yanked in the last few games, McNeil is now starting there, so let’s take a look at the recruiting rankings of our 2 deep. Again, we all know recruiting rankings are not always accurate yada yada yada, but the talent accumulated here is staggering nonetheless:
McNeil was a 4* with a Georgia offer
Mangum had an offer from Florida
Budd Thacker was a Rivals250 4* and had an offer from Virginia Tech (who knows their D talent)
Markus White was a 5*, enough said
Everett Dawkins was a Rivals250 4* and had offers from Tenn, VT, Wake, NC State, Maryland, Illinois, etc.
Moses McCray was a Rivals250 4* with offers from Florida, LSU, Miami, etc.
Jacobbi McDaniel was a 5*, enough said
Justin Mincey was a 4*, couldn’t get his offers
Kendrick Stewart was a 4* with offers from Florida, Pitt, etc.
Bradham was a 5*, enough said
Dekoda Watson was a late bloomer but picked up offers from North Carolina, South Carolina, Tenn and VT
Nigel Carr was a Rivals250 4* and had offers from Clemson, Florida, etc.
Kendall Smith was a Rivals100 4* and had offers from Alabama, Florida, etc.
Patrick Robinson was a Rivals250 4* and had offers from Florida, Tenn, etc. (he is also projected as a 1st round pick and is an elite corner)
Ochuko Jenije was a Rivals250 4* and had offers from Clemson, Alabama, etc.
Dionte Allen was a Rivals100 4* and had offers from Miami, Notre Dame, Penn State, etc.
Jamie Robinson was a Rivals100 4* and had offers from Clemson, VT, Penn State, etc.
Nick Moody was a Rivals100 4* and had offers from GT, Penn State, etc.
Greg Reid was a 5*, enough said
Pretty much the only 3* or lower player in the 2-deep is Mangum (and boy those 3 stars were 3 too many) and Dekoda Watson. Just amazing.
By comparison, our offense has four 3* players in the offensive line alone.
Talk about doing less with more.
by pbysh on Nov 2, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Compared to offense....
….you already mentioned 80% of the OLine is 3*.
Ponder is 3*
Owens, Goodman, and Easterling are 3*
Reliford and Ty Jones are 2*
Jermaine Thomas is 3*
Zebrie and Fortson must feel like elitists amongst those 3* groundlings!
by The K-Man on Nov 2, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine how good they will be with 4 and 5*'s
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I posted a list on the recruiting board, but
A majority of the leading rushers in the country so far this season were former 3 stars.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And their competition wasn't very good.
by FSUSOM on Nov 2, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to the big shot RB that went to Colorado, Scott
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's lazy and usually injured, I believe.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't a featured back. Gets marginal PT.
But returns kicks quite a bit.
by Aussierat on Nov 2, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stars coming out of high school have a high correlation with winning
obviously there are other factors, but getting the best guys in high school is important; even if some don’t pan out. Coaching them well is the other half.
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Nov 2, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of a chart I saw a year or two ago listing the star ratings of the last 5 or so QBs who won a title. Most of them if not all were 3 or 4 stars from what I recall.
The chart also listed the year the current coach was in when he won a title. Most title winners are within their first five years as head coach.
Anyone have this chart?
by lul on Nov 2, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Tebow, Matt Flynn, Troy Smith, Vince Young, and Matt Leinart
I think you are “misrecalling”.
OH YEAAHH!
by TBfisherman on Nov 2, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we have more talent on defense
And yet our offense is top 5 in the nation and our defense is bottom 5-10. This is about as telling as it gets when it comes to coaching evaluations.
>>---l>
by DKfromVA on Nov 2, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we had lost that one
“Mangum had an offer from Florida”
by wnc_nole on Nov 2, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mangum had an offer from Florida?
I think they were just trolling.
by 38Noles on Nov 2, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is that guy who predicted the defense would only let up 2 field goals?
I thought about his ridicuous posts on multiple occasions throughout the game and laughed.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah he won't be back, for sure.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You might want to track him down
GREAT articles and your doing an amazing job FSUuncensored. donations?
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was this nextlevel?
I wish you had let him stay. Would love to see him talk his way out of where we are now.
by Aussierat on Nov 2, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Panamakid
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
We’re not as bad as I though we were!
by Okinole on Nov 2, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
FSUn or anyone else,
Has anyone heard any updated rumors on the Bobby situation??
I’ve seen some floating around that the Fisher HC contract is just about done but Bobby will return next year at 2.5M!! God help us if that’s the case.
by FtLauderdaleNole on Nov 2, 2009 12:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Bowden has way too much pride for that to happen.
by FSUSOM on Nov 2, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see him fighting tooth and nail behind closed doors to retain control
But I think it has gone too far, and the Board and boosters will say no. The PR firm will pitch it as “Bobby has decided that it is in the best interest of FSU to step down” when he really had no choice at all.
>>---l>
by DKfromVA on Nov 2, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I belive Bowden is done
If he returns, and I have not heard that he will, he would have to let go everyone on defense.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GTs D held Clemson relatively in check, and Clemson did lose to Maryland.
There is hope?
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
maybe...
But Clemson is on a huge upswing in momentum right now. They’ve won their last 3 in a row. CJ Spiller is no laughing matter and he is going to have a field day with our defense in the shape its in. He’s likely to have 200+yrds of offense by himself much less with Jacoby Ford out there as well.
by CPNole on Nov 2, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, surprised at the toughness Spiller has shown this year.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clemson at home very good
And our defense is a lot worse than middle tennessee’s who Clemson did well against.
They put up 6.7 yards per play against Wake. I’d expect at least 7 against FSU.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our defense is the WORST. ;(
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While watching other teams that had success stopping GTs option, besides getting penetration up the middle, their safetys and corners where flying up to make stops in the back field. When FSU played GT, you could not find a safety or corner until the GT runners already had gained 10 yards. Are our guys just not quick, strong or smart enough to get by blockers? Clemson will bubble screen us to death, and its imperative that our DBs fly to the ball to disrupt that.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
With Mangum, I'm sure it will not look like he is "flying" to the ball.
“Flying” = “Looking like a slow jog”?
by FSUSOM on Nov 2, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Mangum being a part of a trio from Texas, him being the tag along talent wise
The other 2 guys left the program. RB and DB, Trevor Ford I think.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, thats him.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 2, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clarence Ward was the S from LaMarque
Trevor Ford was a CB from Miami in the 04 class.
by RishiM on Nov 2, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, thanks for the correction.
I think Ford ended up at Troy.
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
by badknees81 on Nov 3, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frolicking
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gallivant
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sashay
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Loiter
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Extravagate
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Promenade
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wander
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ramble
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fail
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Winner Winner
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Googlesaurus....
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how the hell did Clemson lose to Maryland?
by Okinole on Nov 2, 2009 1:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
By being Clemson,
They routinely lose games they should win. We can only hope they do the same this Saturday.
by pbysh on Nov 2, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid Question?
This could be a novice question, as I was completely stupid before starting to read this blog:
Why doesn’t our defense mix in some different types of blitzes and try to confuse some people? We’re not covering anyone anyway, so what’s an extra man or two coming after the QB? The risk of giving up a big play is the same (since we give one up almost every play anyway) and the reward would be much greater.
by Funbags on Nov 2, 2009 1:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well we can't even grasp simple concepts
To throw confusing stuff, that would require better coaching.
But I see what you mean.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe Freidgen ate Clemson's offense save Spiller?
by Okinole on Nov 2, 2009 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Freidge lost a lot of weight this past offseason.
by marlins44 on Nov 2, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He got that surgery, right?
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Nov 2, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gastric Bypass is the only logical explanation
for that much weight loss, unless he worked out with his team everyday.
by truenole87 on Nov 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he just did it the right awy
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if this is true, its really admirable
You have to love a coach that tries to match the same dedication to fitness that he expects from his players.
by NorthernHaze on Nov 2, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for finally looking at the defense
Now that I have the vomit taste out of my mouth, I would kindly ask that you not evaluate our defense again for the rest of the season. Why subject us to more comparisons to North Texas and Western Kentucky?
Whether BB stays or not, I firmly believe Fisher will be hiring our new defensive staff soon (Dec/Jan). I also have no doubt that he will hire an excellent staff, and that we will see significant improvements in next year’s defense. I think the bigger question is how much improvement should we expect?
Considering the players coming back on defense, that a few freshmen or JUCOs will provide quality depth, and that the new staff can break many of the bad habits that some of our returning players have developed, I think a realistic expectation would be for a defense in the 40th to 60th range nationally.
If our defense could have just been in the 60s this year we would probably be undefeated right now!
Additionally, BB is not coming back. The University cannot financially withstand 20,000 to 30,000 empty seats on Saturdays.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 2, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping a good staff could get us to the 30s
But I’ll take 50 over what we have right now.
by pbysh on Nov 2, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Muschamp
I think what Will Muschamp has done at Texas is a good example of what we might be able to expect. Muschamp was able to get far more out of the existing talent upon his arrival, and now that he is in his second year he is implementing a far more diverse package of defenses. Nick Saban himself could not fix all of our problems in one season.
I’m not going to run the stats, but I wonder what our statistical rankings would look like if we did not give up 3 or 4 30+ yard pass plays per game? Our pass defense is certainly skewing our average yards per play woes.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 2, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas D prior to 2008 was no where near as bad as ours
To expect our defense to improve as much as Texas’ did might be a little unrealistic.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 2, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very unrealistic.
Guys, we are comparing ourselves unfavorably to ARKANSAS STATE.
by FSUncensored on Nov 2, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I expect a very drastic improvement nontheless
I don’t think there’s anyway to express the sheer excitement the new DC will have for the talent he’ll be working with. Position coaches will feel the same way. Problem is they’ll be pissed and flabbergasted at how much they have to teach our players. We may see some players hit a wall in their learning curves but we may also see some players flourish like we never thought possible. Essentially we’ll be seeing kids learn how to play college football for the first time. The bright side in this is that our 2010 class of defensive players won’t have a single moment wasted on campus with an incompetent staff and our 2008/2009 studs will be salvaged.
by truenole87 on Nov 2, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But I would
still say that with the right staff in place, we would definitely see a vast improvement by next season. For an example, LSU cleaned house on the defensive side of the ball. They brought in a new secondary coach, D-line coach and Chavis as DC. LSU’s defense went from strong (they’ve always had some very, very talented defensive players), but average last season to stellar this season (their only saving grace…cause their offense is sloppy this year). The same could happen for FSU. We could go from 104th of 120, to at least 50th or so overall next season considering the amount of talent that is here. If that happens and assuming ALL our offense returns next season, minus the Senior WR’s Goodman and Owens, we should have no problems winning out the ACC and being a top 10 team.
by CPNole on Nov 3, 2009 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Top 50 is reasonable
There are some that believe we could be a Top 25 D and I think that is a pipe dream.
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 3, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm honestly not sure I'd call it a pipe dream
Obviously top 25 is not an easy task. But considering the talent we have, I mean REALLY thinking about it. And the fact that the top tier of our “locks”. The kids like Christian Jones and Lamarcus Joyner that are probably better than some of the kids on our roster right now. Kids like Deas coming from JUCO. I mean we literally have no clue how good our secondary could be if we replace Mangum, Implement a real pass rush without blitzing and stop leaving our corners on islands. These are all things that will happen next season.
by truenole87 on Nov 3, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly do not think you understand how bad our defense is
We have to break MANY bad habits that have been tought to these poor kids.
Please also look at our schedule next year, again it will not be easy.
If we break the Top 40 it will be an enormous success
CP7, Please do not go Pro
by RaysnNoles on Nov 3, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our talent level
I don’t think we are anywhere close to the talent level of Texas on defense, I was just trying to point out that even Muschamp has taken a couple seasons to get everyone’s mind right.
My biggest concern is that the current staff has ruined the players currently in the system. Poor practice habits, poor technique, and discipline problems are had to fix. Fundamental culture changes are had to implement, and the next defensive staff will have about what, seven years of crap to overcome.
However, I still think a defense that is ranked in the 50s-60s nationally is a realistic goal.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 2, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that's hard not had
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 2, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
I think our rank will sky rocket next year. Part of it will be due to the fact that our offense can hold the ball and doesn’t turn the ball over much. With the physical talent we have it shouldn’t be too hard to get the players to stop giving up multiple scoring drive of 50+ yards. We also don’t play in a league of offensive juggernauts, we just make it look that way. We just need a defense to give up 24 ppg or less.
by osceolafan850 on Nov 2, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I cant wait until we get a coach at every level that has the credentials to coach at a high level D1 school….
by Fredric on Nov 2, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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