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Florida State Smashes Encouraging And Embarrassing ACC Records

[Note:  Mickey Andrews, Jimbo Fisher, and EJ Manuel will have their regularly scheduled press conferences at 1:30, per usual.  You can watch it at this link, for free:  http://all-access.cbssports.com/player.html?code=fsu&media=132352 ]

[Note:  Please view this article in "WIDE MODE"  Select this option on the menu to your right. ]

By now, you probably realize that Florida State's offense under the direction of reigning ACC offensive coordinator of the year Jimbo Fisher is very, very good.  They put up 400 yards on only 50 plays against Maryland in their 29-26 win over the weekend.  And any ACC fan knows that FSU's offense is the best in the conference.  But not only is the Seminole offense the best in the ACC this season, but it is the best in the ACC since the conference expanded in 2005 and is the best offense the ACC has seen at least as far back as CFBStats.com keeps track.  Florida State's 6.8 yards per play in conference is tremendous, and it is the conference's only offense to break the 6.5 yards-per-play barrier in more than a half decade

Acc_ypp_2000s_medium
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Click to enlarge.
It is even more impressive when you consider that Florida State had to play a quarter of their conference season with a backup freshman quarterback after losing Christian Ponder to injury for the year. It has also been without its leading receiver, Richard Goodman, for a quarter of the conference season.  And it lost its starting tight end Caz Piurowski for the final half of the conference season.  Down 3 starters and still the Florida State offense dominates,

Left with un-coached scrubs from the Jeff Bowden era (represented by the black line for death), Fisher has transformed the offense into an attack that can be compared to any attack in the country.  Florida State starts 1 senior, 2 juniors, 7 sophomores, and 2 freshmen.  There are no 5-star recruits in the starting lineup, and only 2 of the starting 11 were rated as 4-stars.  Fisher is out-scheming opponents and has his young offense executing with the maturity of a much older offense.  It had been more than a half decade since Florida State had the conference's best offense, but obliterating the previous conference record with this young group should give Florida State fans confidence that their head coach in waiting (HCIW) can really coach.  And you can't help but wonder whether next year's group can reach the untouchable mark of 7 yards per snap of the ball.  6.8 yards per snap of the ball against conference competition.  Amazing.

And its even more amazing when you remember that Florida State did not get the advantage of facing the ACC's worst defense since ACC expansion.  Why not?  Because quite ironically, that defense also belongs to the Seminoles.

Acc_defense_large

That is one painful chart. FSU's defense is not only the worst since ACC expansion, it is 10% worse than any ACC defense since 2004 (we do not have records of conference, only statistics from before 2004).  This unit is worse than the defenses Duke fielded in 2004 or 2005 or 2006.  And this defense posted that embarrassing mark without the "help" of facing the conference's best offense.  But it often allowed lesser opponents to post their best day, and in fact every offense the Seminoles defense went up against managed their best or second-best offensive performance of the season.  And to think, Florida State fans believed the coaches when they denied that closing practices was due to defensive embarrassment.  After this season, it seems those reports of 400-yard quarters during the Fall mini-scrimmages were accurate.

But much like the offense trended down until FSU could have no more, this defense has been in a slow tailspin since the early part of the decade.  Each small step forward (2006 & 2008) was met with gigantic leaps back (2007 and this season).  And those leaps corresponded with head coach Bobby Bowden's failure to replace competent coaches (like Kevin Steele and Jim Gladden) with reasonably competent coaches, instead allowing running jokes like Chuck Amato and Jody Allen to run this once proud unit into the ground.  

This has to be some sort of record.  Have you ever seen a team have the conference's best offense and worst defense?  Perhaps.  Have you ever seen the best offense and worst defense of more than a half-decade come from the same school, in the same season?  Let us know.

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Hold On To Fisher

So I’m thinking maybe FSU needs to hang onto Jimbo Fisher. From the looks of things, if we could get the defense turned around, we might be back in business!

by WRChadwell FSU78 on Nov 23, 2009 5:17 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah,

and he’s recruiting all the quality defensive guys along with Coley and Dawsey and O’Dell.

by Bud Elliott on Nov 23, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Hope for next year

It’s unbelievable what our offense has been able to do this year. Especially considering there have still been some significant injuries this year. Guys like Hudson, Caz, and Ponder are huge contributors not only by skill but by leadership.

I wonder how many teams in the modern era have ever reached or exceeded the 7 ypp mark? I’ll see what I can find over the long weekend. I would suspect very few that played against good competition.

Defensively there is still some hope next year. I think there has been a steady improvement in the D-tackles as the season has progressed, and they should be much better with another offseason to mature and develop.

Our D-ends are poor. We need better players and better coaching.

The Nigel brothers are both promising LBs. Better coaching and some depth and LBs could be the defensive strength next year.

The Secondary will also return some talented players, but I don’t think they have the collective talent that the LBs have. A better scheme and some help from the D-ends would help this group tremendously.

It was not until today that I realized even the defense has been slowly deteriorating over the past five years too.

How is it possible that Notre Dame will fire their coach for not meeting expectations this year and going 6-6, while I think we had just as high of expectation as ND, our program is in just as much disarray, yet BB may still survive another year?

What I want for Christmas is FSUn to get an exclusive interview with Ann Bowden. I’m sure you could conduct a nice interrogation worth reading.

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone.

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Nov 23, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

ND

No, all I saw was the OT :)

I can appreciate players trying to rally around a coach, but overall that is a total waste of time. The players know which coaches are good and which ones aren’t. Quality coaching shows up in practice and it shows up in the game.

I would bet that privately 70 to 80 percent of the team would be happy to see Bobby go. How can you ask players to commit everything they have to the program in body, spirit, and time while the head coach doesn’t do anything? The players know which coaches are contributing and putting in the time, and they do not respect the coaches that don’t!

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Nov 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Did you see Charlie's interview after he was first hired?

Charlie found every bit of the weight that Ralph Friedgen lost.

by MattDNole on Nov 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you mean Buddy?

Buddy Ryan. Dolphins > Jets. SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPP

SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!

by DA-2 on Nov 23, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Right..

Rex.

SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!

by DA-2 on Nov 23, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it bugers or buggers?

>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

by FrankDNole on Nov 23, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

where i come from, they're boogers.

Buggers are when an animal didn’t cooperate fully with Steve Irwin. Oftentimes, these buggers were also fiesty…and little.

by The K-Man on Nov 23, 2009 10:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Also,

Did you hear that Weis said"6-5 isn’t good enough" and “i couldn’t blame them for firing me” Weis may not be a good coach, but at least he can man up & admit when he’s not getting the job done…………..

by Scalpemall on Nov 23, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy for a man to say whose got $30 million guaranteed

I’d want to be fired too and collect an easy paycheck!

by ricobert1 on Nov 23, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

30 mil?

I didn’t catch the contract details, just the fact that he’s saying something i wish every coach at underachieving big time programs would say.

by Scalpemall on Nov 23, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I hear ya

It just doesn’t mean much from a guy with guaranteed money, in my opinion.

by ricobert1 on Nov 24, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

That would be funny

I kind of enjoy Ann sharing the Bowden family opinion with us all through the media, in a sick kind of way.

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Good post IAHNole

Thanks for the thoughts. I do think the DT play is improving and that just had to happen for me to have any hope for next year.

by Bud Elliott on Nov 23, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Dawkins is our best DL

If he’s moved to SDE where he has more space he can dominate. Mccray has yet to impress me. McDaniel can be great pass rush DT. My fear is he’ll always be too small for every down. I move White inside as he’s not coordinated enough for DE. Mcalister? Who knows w/ WDE? I think Jenkins is ideally a LB. Carr has been completely underwhelming to me. Smith shouldn’t be starting ideally. Bradham to Mike. alexander can be good passing LB I think. DBs-Reid, allen, moody, parks by default. I think DBs are strength (relative) simply because of depth. At this point I can’t name a starting line and LB group that I like.

by sperrett on Nov 23, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just punching some numbers myself

on FSU’s defense. I’ve been keeping rolling defensive totals in a spreadsheet, with comparisons to 1973 (probably the worst FSU defense ever, statistically) and 1983 (worst statistically under Bowden).

This FSU team has already yielded enough yards to break the yards yielded per game numbers for 1983 (FSU would have to hold Florida to negative yardage to avoid the yards per game numbers of 1983). The current average is 434, 1983 was 379.9. To avoid the 1973 average, FSU would have to hold Florida to 563 yards of offense, which is more yards than FSU has yielded in any game this season.

For scoring defense, FSU would have to hold Florida to 33 points to avoid averaging worse than 1973’s 30.1 points per game.

I didn’t even punch the numbers to figure out how to avoid averaging more yards per play yielded for the season. But I think that’s pointless, as FSU has had only two games all season holding opponents to fewer yards per play than either the ’83 or ’73 team averaged for the season. At 6.6 yards per play, FSU is .9 yards per play ahead of the 1973 pace (or should I say behind) of 5.7.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Nov 23, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

Absolutely.

I agree with you there. Just don’t think we’re comparing apples to apples when comparing to 1973.

by MattDNole on Nov 23, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

how would propose doing that?

Of course, we’d also have to verify that the strides the passing game has made and the fact you can get large chunks through the air overtakes the facts that interceptions and incompletions account for 0 yards on those plays, and that today’s modern spread offenses are often geared on short passes to mismatches with the idea of gaining large YAC.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Nov 23, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

well, i knew that one

however, finding a complete set of such records in one easy location like you can do for stats the last 10 years or so would be hard. Right now, you can easily get those from the NCAA site.

The other complication is the change in division structures. I seem to recall a huge reshuffling sometime after 1973 – I could be wrong, maybe that was 1970 or so. Primarily, I believe, it was a division of Division I to I-A and I-AA (later FBS and FCS). Filtering that for comparison would be consuming.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Nov 23, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Did anyone else notice Maryland giving FSU a taste of its own medicine with the bubble screen?

They must have used at least a dozen or so of those – and it worked well in the first half. Maryland knew that FSU was going to load the box & force its young QB to throw. So, Maryland countered with the play that was FSU’s staple last year.

I think this is an example of how Jimbo is already changing the face and offensive style of the ACC. O-coordinators are taking notice and already using Jimbo’s strategies.

by FSUjab on Nov 23, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions  

in one 3 play sequence

Reid comes busting up while losing outside contain & completely whiffs allowing the guy down the sideline. 2 plays later, Jenije does the exact same thing. If MD had any speed that’s 2 TDs in 3 plays on bubble screens. not that we haven’t seen similar repeatedly. At what point is it the players fault? The coaching is not there but at some point there should be the football equivalent of common sense. Reid is basically a soph now & arguably our best defender from a potential standpoint. Jenije basically a RS-Senior. One of the reasons I don’t see marked improvement next yr w/ new DC.

Also, do you think Meyer might have noticed that? Odds on bubble screens to Demps, Rainey, or James (or all 3) sat?

by sperrett on Nov 23, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

When players get worse

the longer they are here, thats 100% on coaching.

by Miaminole on Nov 23, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

FSUn - one big omission in 2nd paragraph:

Also without our BEST offensive player — Rodney Hudson — for 1.5 conference games.

by arrdub on Nov 23, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Also...

EJ was a 5-star and is currently starting even though he was not the starter at the beginning of the season. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, by saying Ponder is out and we have not 5-stars starting.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Nov 23, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

He was downgraded to 4 star by rivals.

During the jb era rivals took a lot of heat for not correctly projecting that our recruits would do well. Since then any recruit that strongly leans to FSU or commits will see their stock drop. It seemed like the only way to maintain a 5 star status was to do a quick switch closing to signing day like G5.
Hopefully this will start to change as it has become clear that competent coaches will develop players hear(Jimbo and co.).

by revival on Nov 23, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Every week

is Groundhog day in terms of stats. The offense is a Porsche and the defense is a Chevy Chevette.

by 1newplayer on Nov 23, 2009 1:39 PM EST reply actions  

Best WR core

This is by far the best WR core I have seen since their coach (Lawerence Dawsey) was there. Then there was four receivers known as the fabe four and Dawsey was the the leader of this group. . They got that nickname because they could catch almost anything thrown at them and would make plays after the catch. Very similar to the situation we have this year. A lot of credit needs to go to the receivers this year.

by Trenaway on Nov 23, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

Wasn't Randy Moss supposed to be there that year too?

But couldn’t keep off the weed long enough and got the boot before he ever suited up in the Garnet and Gold.
Also Javon Walker would have been there too.

by BS37FSU on Nov 23, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Moss went pro in 1998 and torched my Bucs for 3 TDs in his first game...

He got kicked off the team for pot if I recall correctly and then transferred to Marshall….if Moss had been a part of our team in 1996-97 years I’d find it hard to believe we wouldn’t have won a title. We lost one game in both those years.

by moneyNOLE24 on Nov 23, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Javon Walker wasn't here in 1999

He was a JUCO that signed with in Feb. 2000 and was here for the 2000 and 2001 seasons.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi

by RishiM on Nov 25, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

You have to admit this is one of the best ever at FSU. Reid is the best out of this group.

by Trenaway on Nov 24, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I totally disagree

I doubt any of those guys gets drafted and if they do they will be late rounders.

They get open because our line gives the play tons of time to develop and Ponder puts the ball in tiny holes.

by Bud Elliott on Nov 24, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Forston is the only one I think has the potential to be a day one draft pick, and that is a stretch unless he decides to dedicate himself to becoming a complete football player. Reed has NFL speed, but at this point in his career lacks the muscle to to be big time NFL WR. Coles, S. Moss, S. Smith (Panthers), etc all are small lightning bolts, but have a very compact muscular frame (ie Warrick Dunn). I’m not sold Reed can maintain muscle like that. He is young though, and we will see.

by moneyNOLE24 on Nov 24, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

I was thinking the same thing about our receivers. I like Reed & Owens catching balls, taking hits and hanging on. I liked Caz, period. I like Fortson’s blocking and tackling. But I don’t see any Percy Harvins, Julio Joneses, or Dez Bryants on this squad. Our wideouts have had their share of drops and their haven’t been many spectacular catches. The most memorable plays from this group are plays like Fortson’s blocking and tackling. Perhaps our O doesn’t create a lot of plays for the receivers to stand out. Ponder delivers good passes that don’t require spectacular catches. He also distributes the ball well, so its hard to focus on which guy is the best. Maybe Owens. We also throw a lot of short ball-control stuff a lot.

by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

And Germaine Stringer

caught a TD in the Miami game if I’m remembering correctly.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi

by RishiM on Nov 25, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't Minnis also part of that group...

All the sudden my brain has stopped working…

"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath

by NaGaNole on Nov 23, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I believe moneyNOLE has the list correct.

And I think Moss may very well have overlapped most of that group as well. That would have been 3-4 pro bowl receivers (not counting the best COLLEGE receiver of them all, in PW) on the same squad.

For the record, the only other group that I can think of with a similar pedigree would be Miami’s Andre Johnson-Reggie Wayne-Santana Moss combo, who I think were all on the opposite sideline AGAINST our group in 1999. Has more talent at any unit ever been on a college field at the same time?

by arrdub on Nov 23, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say "no".

I haven’t seen the 99 game in a long time, but that reedonkulous trio was playing in 2000 for certain. Not sure about 1999.

Tangent: I remember the Miami secondary being hyped as the greatest assembled of all time, but some of them didn’t pan out in the NFL. (Mike Rumph? sp)
The WR’s were flying under the radar, comparatively speaking.

by The K-Man on Nov 23, 2009 11:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Our guys (Warrick + Coles) were gone in '00, though.

I am certain Santana and Reggie Wayne were on the ‘99 UM squad, though perhaps not starting yet. I think I remember Andre Johnson leaving as a junior, but can’t remember if it was after Rose or Fiesta.. if it was after the ’01 UM championship, then yes, he would have been there for ’99.

Ooh, I just thought of another unit that might rival this… the 1992 FSU-UM LB group. highlighted by Marvin, Derrick, Barrow, and Armistead (among countless other backups that would go on to the NFL, to be sure). Don’t think Ray Lewis showed up until the next year or so, though… otherwise you’d be talking about two of the best NFL linebackers of ALL TIME on the field together, along with the guy a lot of Seminoles (and Dennis Erickson) believe to be the greatest college football player, not just linebacker, of all time.

by arrdub on Nov 24, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Andre Johnson was class of 2000

so he wasn’t on the sidelines for the 1999 game.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi

by RishiM on Nov 25, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

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