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Where have we gone wrong while UF has gone right?

 

I am new to the site but already I have found tomahawknation.com to be the absolute finest source of information and insight to FSU athletics. After reading for about 3 months I finally decided to post my own thoughts. I haven't seen anything on this particular topic but feel free to correct me if it's already been covered.

I am a 1998 graduate of FSU and former Chief. Anyone who is around my age will remember the "good old days"; I certainly do as a student from 1994-1998, probably the best possible years of FSU football I could have asked for (aside from being one year late and one year early on both ends for the two championships). I had a Numerical Analysis class with Warrick Dunn and we studied together at my apartment on numerous occasions. For me, that was almost as good as studying with a hot coed at the time seeing as how rabid I was about FSU football. I got angry, really angry when we lost and carried myself to cloud 9 whenever we won a huge game. I was a regular on call-in shows and followed recruiting almost as closely as Ronnie Cottrell. ;) I watched every down of every FSU football game from 1993-2005 when I just couldn't take it anymore, relegating myself to watching most of every game to eventually missing some games in 2007, 2008 and this season out of pure despair and embarrassment.

All that has been said to illustrate my frustation, jealousy and questions about how UF has seemed to do everything right and we have done everything wrong. Obviously we all know how the hiring of Jeff Bowden was a debacle and set the decline of our program into action. We all know about the rest of horrendous decisions that have led us to where we are now. My question is, how did we do this and how has Florida has done so much better?

  • How did our administration/athletic department allow anti-nepotism to be skirted and Jeff to be in control of our offense for so long while Florida's administration took quick action when their poor choice wasn't working out?
  • How on earth did we join the ACC, the nation's best basketball conference, and fail to do anything but make the tournament a couple of times while somehow Florida got Billy Donovan and a list of blue-chip recruits and win two national titles, playing in the SEC at a weak basketball school?
  • How did we ignore what was in the best interests of our program and school by allowing the football team to drive off a cliff of poor recruiting and general coaching apathy while the Gates recruited dream teams and installed high-end coaching immediately instead of this "coach in waiting" business?
  • How did we not take the lead in state football recruiting while Zook was making a mess in Gainesville?
  • Most importantly, how have we tolerated this since 2001 while Florida tolerated it for what, 2 seasons, max?!

 

I will never be jealous of Florida for ANYTHING, no matter how well they do in athletics, with the exception of the decision-making of their administration and athletic direction. I am so jealous of this, I really am. It disgusts me that our biggest rival has had maybe one little misstep (Zook) and has since set their program into 1980s-Miami mode and 1990s-FSU mode while we are stuck with 20th-century-Duke mode for going on 9 years now.
Is the reason for this really Bobby Bowden, that Florida never had a legend, a program-builder, so they never had to worry about firing a beloved figure on the college football landscape? Or is it just better administration/politics/athletic direction at UF (never thought I'd be saying that about Jeremy Foley)? Is it the fact that we are so immersed in the good-ol'-boy network and UF isn't? (I can't imagine that either)

I'm just overly dismayed and frustrated knowing that we are going to get blown out again by Florida. All of my frustration with the general state of FSU athletics has just culminated in the prospect of another thrashing by the Gates. I would love a synopsis of how we've screwed everything up and Florida has risen to prominence. More than anything, I just want to be competitive again and not have to rejoice at coming from behind to beat a 2-8 team in the final minutes. Perhaps we needed this long period of mediocrity to take the spoil out of FSU fans that became so accustomed to starting the bus at halftime. Forgive me if I'm foggy on the history of some things and unaware of the reality of our current situation, but I'm just looking for some answers. More importantly, I'm looking for some action, and I mean soon.

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donovan was just a great hire

he comes from a great basketball heritage.

by B-rod24 on Nov 25, 2009 1:02 AM EST reply actions  

welcome to the site

Someone who knows a lot more than me will give you some good answers I am sure.

by tdchrisdavis on Nov 25, 2009 2:26 AM EST reply actions  

I think you've answered a lot of your questions (the answers are painful...

…and we can handle painful here – that’s one thing that sets us apart), and the rest of the answers are already here at TN. Enjoy digging, but I wish I could promise closure or even a pragmatic view with a silver lining of the events that have transpired since 2000. That will be a challenge.

by TRMNole on Nov 25, 2009 8:26 AM EST reply actions  

1. Bobby’s stranglehold of power on this university.
2. Never had a really good coach, more to compete with in the ACC, focus of way more programatic resources to football
3. See #1
4. Zook is a damn fine recruiter.
5. Many just loved Bobby more than winning.

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Nov 25, 2009 9:58 AM EST reply actions  

Two words

Jeremy Foley. He eliminated Zook before he could do more damage. Picked up Donovan, who is a great recruiter and basketball mind. After he eliminated Zook he in turn went out and got Meyer, one of the most progressive offensive minds in college football and at the time the hottest name in college football. I would love to see Foley leave as athletic director, but sadly he has settled in like a tick into Gainesville’s backside. Great university’s start at the top and Foley is a clear example of that.

by 1newplayer on Nov 25, 2009 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

I.e., it's all about leadership.

And Florida State has had zero from the top down. It’s sad and embarrassing to admit, but we are a joke from our president down. No vision, no direction, no results.

by TRMNole on Nov 25, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed - it's all Foley

Zook was the only really bad hire he has made in nearly 20 years. Even in the minor sports – he goes out and gets the best coaches available to lead our teams. His latest hire – women’s basketball coach Amanda Butler has apprently turned that program around in her first year (still can’t beat FSU though) and made it a much more competive unit. Gymanstics coach Rhonda Faehn has made the team a powerhouse and national title contender every year.

If a coach isn’t doing their job, Foley replaces them with somone who can.

by skigator93 on Nov 26, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

As bad as it is for FSU

I am 100% sure in saying that Nole Nation will NEVER resort to this

Fans in No. 15 jerseys will cry like babies when Tebow comes out of the tunnel. It might be the weepiest moment in Florida history.

"It boils down to one of two things: It's either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses."

by RaysnNoles on Nov 25, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

I would cry too...

…if one effeminate young man almost single-handedly represented the entirety of the success of a 103-year-old football program whose storied football tradition exists only in the minds of a delusional fanbase, comprised of 16-year-old bandwagoners, and crusty 60-year-old loudmouths who brag about the good ol’ days, well aware that there were none. That we’ve handed this success to them, in a way more criminal than the way it’s purported to have been handed to Bowden in the ’80’s, makes it all the more sickening that their success will continue beyond Tebow’s career. If Florida fans still don’t like Bowden, they should.

by TRMNole on Nov 25, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't forget the Eye Black-out in honor of Tebow's last home game.

Article here.

Luckily for Foley, Zook provided ammunition for his eventual firing by getting involved in a frat house fight. I can imagine if a similar embarassment happend with Jeffy, it would’ve been easier to send him packing also.

Firing Zook midway through the season ended up being good timing, as it allowed Foley to begin scouting Meyer immediately. Although he didn’t “officially” contact Meyer until after the regular season, he was ready to move. Luckily, Notre Dame did not grant Meyer the number of academic exceptions that he requested, so he went to Gainesville.

I’ll second the post about Zook being an effective recruiter. 22 of his recruits were starters on the 2006 champion Florida football team. The saying goes, “Zook could sell you the used car, but he couldn’t teach a thing about how to drive it.”

by GoGators15 on Nov 25, 2009 11:16 AM EST reply actions  

So what verse will you be wearing?

Or are you going to forgo it all together so the tears don’t smear your makeup

"It boils down to one of two things: It's either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses."

by RaysnNoles on Nov 25, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Fear not Seminoles

Nepotism is alive and well at FSU….look no further than our baseball program…which is eerily similiar to the setup of our football program. Head coach grooming son for eventual job. Doing more with less consistently and setting up for a bizarre retirement scenario for the head coach\legend in the future.

Ever wonder how many national championships FSU would have in baseball with say an Augie Garrido, Ron Fraser, Jim Morris, or Skip Bertman. Why do we have to have the Marv Levy of baseball coaches.

Its just like in all of our sports…..we have seemingly lost the desire to win….we treat everything like little league now where everyone gets a trophy and you are a winner just for playing. UF on the other hand has been cut throat (not in a bad way) and forced their coaches to win or get out. They refuse mediocrity or worse. And they are reaping the rewards of that mentality now more than ever.

by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 11:55 AM EST reply actions  

Point taken

Just trying to think of legendary coaches that could actually win the big one. Your point on Garrido is right on though and I believe just this year the man got himself yet another DUI just add to his career total.

by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

TK and his crew of insiders...

have done MAJOR damage to FSU and filled it full of connected, icompetent friends at positions that they have no idea what to do.

You wonder why FSU is poorly run? Look how it hires.

by noles55 on Nov 26, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

As bad as a coach as Zook was..and is..

He has always been a great recruiter. Also, even though Florida was down under him, FSU was slipping itself. So recruiting at UF has never really slipped, thus they just had to make a coaching change. FSU’s recruiting has slipped and coaching changes cannot make things right immediately. They will need to recruit things back up.

UF did not give Zook time to sink the football program too far. They made the quick decision, Of course he was no legend or son of a legend..he had not even won a title with someone else’s players ala Larry Coker. So there was no fear of any discontent on anyone’s part, aside from Zook himself.

Being in a basketball conference does not instantly show recruits you are a basketball serious school. Kentucky is in a football conference, but that does not mean everyone wants to play for their football team.

by nolestuff on Nov 26, 2009 1:16 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks for the insight ...

… I knew I had started answering my own questions, so it turned more into of an article of frustration than anything else. I think you are correct on all 3 accounts. I guess the one I don’t understand the most is that after we joined the ACC I expected us to take basketball a little more seriously. Florida obviously plays in a football conference like Kentucky yet they managed to get a great coach and win national championships in basketball. Just another item to add to my list of disgust.

by phinole on Nov 26, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Inbreeding...

I am serious.

FSU is SOOO entrenched in hiring within the ‘family’…sometimes actual family sometimes the ‘FSU family’. FSU is in a sense….inbred.

Hire the best available candidate….at EVERY level. Otherwise, we are just a backwoods, inbred Leon county school and little more.

FSU just doesn’t have much ambition……it wants comfort instead.

by noles55 on Nov 26, 2009 6:50 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

We don't demand excellence.

I’ve said this for many years. It’s as if FSU is content to be a backwater, third rate school. Sure, we’ve talked a good game, but it’s all rhetoric, and actions (or lack thereof) speak louder. I’d don’t know if that’s because it’s in a political town in the deep south that’s steeped in the tradition of old boy networks or what. That would certainly explain how we ended up with a non-academic politician like TK at the helm. And how Bobby has managed to maintain influence for so long.

For decades we’ve laughed at UF with their “Harvard of the South” fantasies and more recently their “Gator Nation” campaign. But at least they are seriously trying to be something more academically and athletically, and it’s paying off for them.

FSU has squandered the opportunities it had. I don’t know if it will ever grow up.

by PeachTreeNole on Nov 27, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

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