Is Jeff Bowden The Worst Coach In College Football History?
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in FSU Football
219 comments
Judging by the way he drove one of the most prolific offensive attacks in college football history into the ground, by the way he squandered numerous future NFL Pro-Bowlers in his time in Tallahassee, by the way his offense regressed in each successive season, and by the way his complicity in his father's attempt to turn Florida State into a family piggy bank through nepotism allowed UF the opportunity to rise to a level of unprecedented success... the answer is yes. And appropriately, he still does not have a division-1 head coaching position after his dishonorable discharge in late 2006.
We recently wrote about how Jimbo Fisher has finally righted Florida State's offense and has it again among the nation's elite (top 5 or top 10, depending on how you measure). After that article ran, we were contacted and offered more data (pre-2004 conference only data was unavailable).
In 2001, Jeff Bowden took over for Mark Richt as Florida State's offensive coordinator after Richt left to take the Georgia head coaching position. Jeff was handed the keys to one of the best offenses in college football history. The 'Noles had appeared in three consecutive national championship games. They brought in insanely-talented recruiting class after recruiting class. Florida State players dominated NFL offenses. And Jeff Bowden couldn't have done a worse job if he had intentionally sabotaged the program. Have a look (click Image to enlarge):
In 2001, Jeff benefited from the residual teaching of Richt and the offense was the ACC's best, though there was still a massive dropoff from the 2000 mark of 7.9 yards per play. He had a freshman quarterback in 2001, and some regression was understandable.
Most expected the offense to turn around the next year (2002). Instead, with a 2nd year starting quarterback, the offense plummeted. For the first time in years, FSU was more than a half yard per play off the conference's pacesetter. In 2003, people expected FSU's offense to really be back where it should be. People were predicting national championships. Instead, the offense continued to regress for the 3rd year in a row. Then in 2004, with no remaining starters who had played for Mark Richt, the offense became a nationwide joke. Florida State failed to gain even 5 yards per play, an egregious sin. And remember that in 2004, the ACC had yet to expand, so Florida State did not play excellent defensive teams like Virginia Tech and Boston College. Another year, and more regression. 2005 and 2006 followed, and the best offense in college football had been transformed into one of the worst major conference attacks in the country. Six consecutive years of regression. Yet Bobby Bowden would still have Jeff here if he had his way. Florida State fans look back and wish Bobby would have quit after the 2006 season, as he threatened to do after the booster$ persuaded Jeff to not take his contract renewal/ extension.
It didn't have to be this way. The whole time Bobby Bowden said that Florida State was one player away. He said he knew what the problem was and that he would fix it. He was wrong. They were one person away, be that a competent offensive coordinator, or a disinterested party at head coach with the good sense not to hire someone he couldn't fire.
It was one thing to betray Mickey Andrews after promising him the head coaching job, but to then slap Mickey in the face by hiring an incompetent family member be Andrews' counterpart was disgraceful. Bowden will not end up with the major all-time records because he spent 20% of his career in Tallahassee pulling stunts that benefited his family at the expense of his FSU family.
After a lost decade, Florida State should have no second thoughts about jettisoning this "family member."
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Great Information
Let’s hope TK does the right thing when the season ends.
by vegasnole9399 on Nov 25, 2009 7:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
AMEN!
Its great to see the data that backs up what was plain to see anecdotally. What a disaster. The only smile I got during Jeff’s time was at the Duke game in Tally one year when there was a banner on a sheet reading. “Send Jeff to UF” Brilliant…
by IronNole on Nov 25, 2009 8:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was at that gamw
And I smiled too; oh memories…
by Miaminole on Nov 25, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bam right in the smacker
How does that feel. What would have happened if Terry or tommy would have came in instead. I think they are good coaches. Some think Tommy sucked as a coach but what he has done at Clemson was great. He built a program that could fight back with almost nothing. Why o why would someone want to go to clemson. Its in the middle of nowhere. sorry to get off topic.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Nov 25, 2009 8:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Danny Ford would disagree with you.
nm
by FiestaNole on Nov 25, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible to show that Chart with an ACC best, worst and average?
There seems to be a correlation between the the FSU YPP and the ACC best, suggesting that league defenses got better at the end of Jeff’s reign and have since gotten worse. I don’t know this to be true, but with a league average it would make it a bit easier to infer how far off FSU was at the end of his tenure.
by coonhound on Nov 25, 2009 8:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yes, in the coming weeks.
2003 was the ncst team with pro bowler phillip rivers as a senior and norm chow as his OC
the ACC has always been a haven for conservative nfl defensive types
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Chow was only an NC State for one year (2000)
By 2003, Chow was already counting titles at USC, but his influence during one year with Rivers (his freshman) definitely helped shape him.
by hopnole23 on Nov 25, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is correct
Chow joined USC in 2001 when Pete Carroll took over there.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
by RishiM on Nov 25, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The OC for NC State that year was Marty Galbraith (my uncle)
He also was the OC at Marshall when Chad Pennington was lighting up the MAC and even though I am a little biased he is a pretty tricky coordinator to scheme against. He is also the only coach I have ever seen successfully pull of the fumble-rooskie play in a game.
by 904nole on Nov 26, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tried saying it from 2002 forward
But everyone in the stands just wanted to blame Chris Rix. I hope someday people will look back and realize it wasn’t all his fault and that he was being coached by a fool.
by AMFKNole on Nov 25, 2009 8:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was one of those
I have already seen my own error.
by Okinole on Nov 25, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The first line after the chart
Is that supposed to be in 2001, not 2004?
by TimScribble on Nov 25, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is there an analysis that can be done on his offense?
Can anyone do a write up on Jeff Bowden’s style of offense and his plays. I remember watching them all and being horrified, but for the most part I think I have blocked out those rough times.
What in particular made his offense so horrible?
by TimScribble on Nov 25, 2009 8:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was so mad the day papa B hired jeffy......I knew it was BAD!
I am curious if AC ever responded/acknowledged his story failure that ran at the beginning of Oct? This should put the nail in the coffin and he needs to re-run that story and correct himself.
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/10/7/1075170/a-real-statistical-analysis-of
by Florida_State on Nov 25, 2009 8:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am just glad
This will all be over soon….
BB has brought all this on him self.
Whats that saying? ~ 99% of it is what you make of it ! So if it sucks it’s your own damn fault!
Makes you wounder whats really going on in his mind and in the minds of his family and those that have worked with him over the last 10 years (what do they really think of this situation). I Own a service business in The Villages FL with over 800 customers (retired 55+) and I see a lot of elderly using the age/health card for sympathy and in every case what they do not realize or just seem to forget is when it back fires it makes the situation 1000 times worse if they had just used the TRUTH.
He reminds me of that 2 year old that thinks “I can stick my hand in the cookie jar and if I cant see it happening they cant see it either.”
Well Bobby YOU have replaced the meaning of Team and Honesty with “whats in it for me” .. In placing your self above the players, fans and University. You deserve everything you have coming to you…So keep sticking your foot in your mouth so you can cry about the consequences YOU create for YOURSELF more.. Yeah that will garner more sympathy … I do feel sorry for you.. sorry that YOU have let it all come to this… You have forgotten how to do whats best for the players and showed how selfish you have become. ie: hiring your son instead of the best candidate for the job, and other statements made to the press that show just how much of your mind you have lost.
I PROMISE ! No more Pics in game day threads!
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 25, 2009 8:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
And...
BB playing the sympathy/age card just shows FEAR, and you either conquer your fears, or they conquer you.
And seeing you have chosen to let your FEARS conquer you and demonstrated to all that you have been conquered by them.
Bobby Bowden you no longer have the right to be among the …
A true leader would never place him self above those he leads.
I PROMISE ! No more Pics in game day threads!
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought that
Jeff was an excellent receivers coach considering the way he developed NFL-quality wideouts during the glory years. My words to people were “he’s a fine receivers coach, just not a good coordinator of an entire offense”. I wonder now if he really was a good receivers coach or if it was just the product of raw talent and/or the tutelage of someone else.
by phinole on Nov 25, 2009 9:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jb had the best talent around him during his time as WR coach. I don’t know how good he actually was, all I know is I never hear his name mentioned for open jobs, and his own brother won’t put him on the payrol.
by vegasnole9399 on Nov 25, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was a good receivers coach.
He seemed to understand route concepts much better than protection schemes, and compiling a complete offensive scheme.
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Nov 25, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
errr, other than just throwing it really high to Greg Carr
365 days, until I change my ways.
by SWFLNole. on Nov 25, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY CANT JIMBO THROW IT HIGH TO GREG CARR?!
/obligatory
by Drew J Jones on Nov 25, 2009 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
obligatory
b/c Greg Carr is no longer here
:)
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
by RishiM on Nov 25, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The next few weeks will be some of the most important in the history of FSU football.
I am hoping that what needs to be done will be done….that men will step and make the right decisions…do the right thing. The time for complacence is done, I am tired of watching this program’s demise.
I want to be positive, my mind tells me that the right people will do what is needed. However, everytime I believe that I am slapped in the face with yet another shocking instance of insanity.
Please let the changes be made so that we can leave this all behind and look forward to cheering on the Noles once more.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 9:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry to burst your bubble
But Bobby is coming back for his farewell season.
by FSU PHD on Nov 25, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please enlighten us to why
"It boils down to one of two things: It's either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses."
by RaysnNoles on Nov 25, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's coming back
He’s selfish and greedy. He wants the money another season will bring. Then, next year, when we will absolutely tell him to f off, he will want his “buyout” package. And he’d LOVE the whole farewell tour.
But why will Bobby be back? Because he doesn’t want to leave.
by tricknole on Nov 25, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, and it make me cry
Can you see the administration doing the right thing? Really?
TK = Bobby’s fanboy
Spetman’s balls are locked in TK’s desk
Who’s going to step up? Even the idiot/semi-retarded governor (I don’t live in FL and can be objective) is backing BB.
Seems the decree by anyone over 50 is “Bobby shall coach wander on the FSU sidelines forever”.
Merit is of no consequence. Arguements can be made for in the best interest of money either way….no way to prove what would happen with or without BB, so that’s going to be a non-issue.
I feel bad that Bobby’s going to go out this way. I’d like to see him honored for the things he’s done at FSU….I’d just like to see that done without him coaching (damn, there’s that word again) another game….
by PBD on Nov 25, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please, don't tar all of us "old guys" with the same brush...
I’m 56 (attended FSU from 76, BB’s 1st year, to 81) and recognized what Bobby and JB were doing to the program by at least ‘03 (can’t remember exactly, I’m old, but it was by year 2 or JB’s tenure as OC). It was clear that Bobby was putting himself and his family above the University as if it were his right. Arrogance and hubris (BB) coupled with ignorance (JB) is a dangerous combination!
Please let there be a happy ending to all this for Seminole nation!!! It’s like driving by a bad wreck, you want to look away but your morbid interest gets the best of you.
by kanole on Nov 25, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
because he think's he'll die
the minute he retires. Also, he’d be a fool not to lust after the 2.5 mil that one more year will bring for his extended and cash challenged family.
by FSU PHD on Nov 26, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would require the Univ preZZZZ to actually grow a pair and stand up to BB - something he has cringed from doing
with his exit immenent – he ain’t going to step up now.
by OGN on Nov 27, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You should email a link to that story to the guy at
the Orlando Slantinal (A Carter). He writes that there is no difference between Jimbo and Jeffrey.
I think he wrote that our new OC was JEFFBO
by Diablo_2 on Nov 25, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder where he gets his research from
Jeff did nothing with superstar recruits who went on to dominate in the NFL
Jimbo is dominating some of the toughest defenses in the country with a bunch of 3* recruits
Doesn’t take much to see the difference, if only Jimbo had as much help from the Defense as Jeff did.
by BS37FSU on Nov 25, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is just a beat reporter and a pretty good one
He tried his hand at analysis and failed miserably.
I doubt he tries it again.
"It boils down to one of two things: It's either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses."
by RaysnNoles on Nov 25, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AC
Is a good guy. I am sure he would mention thos if enough people talked about it in the comment section. He format of his blog also makes writing tough due to format.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Around 28??
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 25, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He writes for a Gator rag...
and does what they do…..just take cheap and easy shots at FSU.
by noles55 on Nov 25, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AC did what is the acceptable norm for journalist, meaning he took commonly accepted numbers from the NCAA stats and applied them to his formula.
He did the same thing FSUn does, he takes the stat’s and numbers and then graph’s them.
The difference is that FSUn’s numbers and analysis are superior because of all the extra steps he uses to bring these stats down to the numbers that more accurately reflect what actually took place on the field. IMO, his formula’s should in the future, be the standard for measuring results instead of the outdated method presently being used.
As Bud mentioned, AC also has constraints. He is a beat reporter who attends all the functions, talks with coaches and players after practice, and writes a article for the Orlando and Ft Lauderdale Sentinel. That is his real job and blogging is a by product of that job. It is not a priority where he can dedicate himself to writing blog entries with the dedication and analysis level of FSUn, TrueCubbie, FSUED, MattD, K-Man, and FSUSOM and SWFlnole with recruiting. As we discussed in another post, I have to agree with former Sentinel idiot writer David Whitley in that I think we are lucky to have AC, because all other media left due to economic factiors and our mediocrity, and we only had 4 or 5 beat writers covering us since: Corey Clark and the deceased Steve Ellis with the Democrat, AC, and the St Pete Times. I think that is all.
Lastly, if AC had not got us thinking about the comparisons between Jeffy and Jimbo, Matt would have never had the opportunity for his excellent rebuttal.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 25, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think AC might have been using points scored as the measure. The scoring offense during the JB era was usually in the upper half of the conference.
Both points scored, and even FSUn yards per play stat are a bit flawed. Points scored doesn’t account for defensive scores, good field position, or frequent possessions caused by good defense. Yards per play also is flawed because moving the ball alone doesn’t win games (e.g. USF game).
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want to catch FSUn’s wrath. I do agree yards per play is a better measure of an offense.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he was
handed the keys to a Ferrari and turned it into a tricked-out Ford Focus. Let me be the first to nominate him as the “Worst Coach in CFB History”.
by POCONOLE on Nov 25, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Second the nomination.
I also nominate CTC.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, I'm going to go read the article now, but had to comment first...
In an otherwise miserable week of preparing myself for a drubbing on Saturday, followed by the world’s dorkiest fans having bragging rights for yet another year, I did my daily checking into Tomahawk Nation to get the best FSU coverage in the World.
Little did I know that when I opened the site, I would spit my coffee all over my computer and desk at work. Not cool, FSUn!!! Give a guy some warning!!! That was the all-time funniest title to an article in the history of publication!!! I can never read this article and answer without a doubt that, yes, he is the WORST coach of all-time! However, having it posted like that as a hypothetical, yet serious question is so f-ing funny!!!
Go Noles!!! Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
PS, – Hold off on the liquor tomorrow. Go with beer and wine. You still have Friday that you’ll have to drink to tolerate your own family or your wife’s (always much worse), and then of course gameday. Gameday is straight liquor this year, so unless you are young enough to still be able to physically handle a 3-day bender, stay away from the liquor until Saturday.
by HROB3 on Nov 25, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would like to offer a few thoughts.
A) This is probably one of the few times in college football history that a assistant coach with a contract that was set to expire in the offseason (August), was ever paid a buyout to resign. He could have been fired and reassigned outside of the athletic department until his contract expired, or just fired and paid the balance of his contract.
Instead he was kept on, reassigned outside the athletic department (or so they say) and then paid $107,500 for 5 years, which we are still paying until 2012.
To my knowledge, this was a first in NCAA history, to buyout a assistant coach with an expiring contract , for substandard performance.
2) Many people are under the wrong impression about the nepotism laws.
It is a fact that the nepotism law was NOT broken when Jeff was promoted to Offensive Coordinator after Richt left.
SAY WHAT?
The nepotism law was actually broken the day Jeffy was hired as a receivers coach.
The nepotism law was circumvented by having Jeff report to the offensive coordinator and not report directly to his father. This is how the Bowden’s skirted the law, and the athletic department, the administration, and the booster all conspired to appease Saint Bowden and let him hire his son to groom him to be his successor..
I will look for a transcript of the press conference I have somewhere, and post it here, to prove my point about when the nepotism was actually broken.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 25, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't it Auburn's OC(Franklin?) a couple years ago that was dismissed mid season for awful performence, don't think he got a buyout
JB’s buyout was the very last straw for me in support of BB; I’ll bet Sexton, Heggins, Dickey, McHale didn’t get buyouts.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall ever hearing about any other assistant coach or coordinator ever being bought out.
I think they are fired and paid the balance of their contract. Period.
I believe this was unprecedented, but I could be wrong, and if I am, I am counting on someone here educating me and the readers.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 25, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The basketball game last night and now this reminder
Never really put 2 and 2 together here but we are paying Bowden 2.5 million for nothing, Jeffy 100K for nothing. Throw in Jody Allen and Chuck Amato (not sure of their salaries, thought I remember 100K and 300K) and we are paying nearly 3 million dollars for this team to people for doing NOTHING……..ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. #$%*&!)$%(($%
Can you imagine the defensive team of coaches we could have for that, the strength and conditioning program, the indoor facility, and endless amounts of other great things we either don’t have now or need improvement.
No buyout, no farewell season, no anything…….BOWDEN SHOULD BE FIRED AND THE MEDIA SHOULD BE TOLD HE WAS FIRED. Give him his million and tell him to not let the door hit him on the way out.
I wanted this to end civilly but no more, I could care less how the media portrays it….time heals all wounds, this too shall pass and if we are back in the national spotlight again as a national championship contender year in and year out, watch how fast he is forgotten.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bought out of what??? That is the key. He wasn’t in a contract, he was paid not to take the offer his daddy forced fsu to extend.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The buyout I am referring to is the buyout that will be proposed for Bobby Bowden at the end of this season.
He does not deserve it, hell he doesn’ t the million already contractually agree to him but again its in his contract. I was not talking about the Jeffy booster early retirement program.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank you sir are dead on. Great comment.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know it's fitting that BB's plan to get JB some OC experience and then move on as a head coach back- fired horribly...
Karma, not only will JB never get an offer to be a head coach, maybe Pop Warner, he most likely won’t ever get an OC offer again either.
Not only did BB run the Offense into the ground, in turn running the team into the ground for years, he also basically crippled his son’s future career opportunities for the most part IMO.
Well, I guess he can at least say he’s got something in common with his bro’s, nice buyouts.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
but JB was taught by the best!
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 25, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Jeff Bowden coaches at the Pop Warner level
I hope I get a chance to coach against him!!!!
by PBD on Nov 25, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think you would want a challenge?
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 26, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get over JB already!
This is getting rediculous now. How long has JB been gone? And many of you are STILL beating a dead horse on this issue.
Going back to the time Mark Richt left and Jeff was promoted it made sense based on past coaching changes at FSU.
Example:
1993: Offensive Cordinator=Brad Scott. QB coach=March Richt.
At the end of 93 Brad Scott leaves for South Carolina and Mark Richt is elevated to offensive cordinator.
1994 offense was good but dropped compared to 93 and understandibly due to Kanell was no Charlie Ward mobile QB. The offense for a fact struggled at times during the season. 17-0 win against Clemson is a good example. But we had a solid defense with a good enough offense to go 10-1-1.
Also in 1994 Jeff Bowden shows up when Eason leaves the program. Do I need to name all the WR who were studs for the FSU program from 1994-2000? Jeff Bowden coached those guys.
2001: Mark Richt leaves for Georgia and is replaced by Jeff Bowden who was a proven coach from 94-2000 as a WR coach. So it made perfect sense to promote Jeff to the offensive cordinator.
Now what didn’t Jeff have that Mark had when he took over?
Kanell was a Redshirt Jr. when he took over. Jeff has a redshirt Freshmen who had tons of athletic ability but a ton of arrogance, attitude and lack of common sense.
Add in the death of Darling in 01 which ended matt drills etc……… and add on to the fact that the program had gotten COMPLACENT. 2001 year and the years that followed we dealt with many problems off the field due to character issues which hurt us on the field when we had players suspended, dismissed, hurt etc…………
And add to the fact that due to our complacent attitude of saying “we can beat you because we are FSU” our ACC opponents had some players rising and were now able to compete against us on the field and not feel as intimidated playing against us. Once FSU lost it’s first home game in 58 games against Miami who simply got better from the year before because they were LOADED the doors opened for future losses at home because the stress of keeping that streak alive had ended horribly.
Add in the fact that we lost many games from 01-06 by sheer bad luck, one bad play here, one bad play there etc………..
You may think I’m defending JB and in a way I am because YOU CANNOT BLAME ONE PERSON for the decline of a program. You have to blame the program as a whole and the players who played during those years because you can coach and coach and teach and teach but you have players who don’t listen and want to do things their way then it wouldn’t matter who was coaching. JB didn’t ask McPherson to go and gamble and get dismissed or other players to get into trouble which kept them off the field.
Also another underlining problem with FSU decline was when the ACC expanded in 04. Bad decision and look who we are playing at the beginning of the year Miami. That game needs to stay in October.
Did JB get the job done while he was here? No. He is a reason for the decline? Yes. He is the #1 reason? No. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t know the game of football or how a program works. Should his time as offensive cordinator been shortend? Probably. After the 2004 season I would have made a switch if I was in charge.
I think what Jimbo has done which wasn’t done from 2001-06 was he has gone out and recruited players to play in a particular offensive system. The FSU offense had no identity from 01-06. We just threw in players who were high recruits and said go run the ball, catch and block. No direction at all. Jimbo has done the opposite. He has gone after players who fit into a system and basically you have seen the difference now. FSU has an offensive identity now and that has translated on to the field. There is a new more intense attitude that wasn’t there from 01-06 because we are no longer complacent that we are FSU and we can beat you because we are FSU.
by sll1728 on Nov 25, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Darlings death did not change things. That is a pathetic rutch the coaches uded.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
sll1728. I could care less about jeff bowden and would rather forget about it. rec’d.
by 1newplayer on Nov 25, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a friend of Devaughn...
I would beg to differ that a death of teammate doesnt change things. I’m sure it had an affect on the players that were there…its not a big part of the downfall of the program but it played its part!!!
by j-will on Nov 25, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont consider jeffy a dead horse at all because we are still paying for his dumb ass.....
by Florida_State on Nov 25, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff is paid $100,000 a year until 2012. Still love Bobby as much?
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is $100,000 a year from FSU… for being terrible at his job. It’s been a while, I don’t remember what was the reason for it. Was it written in his contract? Or was it the only way FSU could make Bobby happy?
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said I loved BB as much. I want BB gone and to be a distant memory just like JB is to me. The point I am getting at is I am just sick about people beating the JB issue. These same people will be griping 5-10 yrs from now after BB is gone and our program is still sub-par.
by thirdcoastnole on Nov 25, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I defintely will remind people of the damage Bobby did in his final years even in the future. Just as I like to remind people that he has won fewer championships than UF and UM in his time and has/will have a losing record to the two.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby is still griping about Shemp replacing Curly.
Nothing like a cheap age joke to make Wednesday fly by.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on the whole JB beating a dead horse issue. I am NOT defending JB and am glad he is gone. But it is time for people to quit living in the past and move forward. He’s gone. FSU has other issues to deal with these days.
by thirdcoastnole on Nov 25, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You inadvertently nailed it
we can’t move on until BB is gone. JB and the article is a reminder of why that is so when too many people want to forget or not acknowledge that. JB is a classic example of the Peter Principle…promoted to his level of incompetence. there’s nothing wrong with that. You have to find out. what’s wrong, and dishonourable, is milking it for 11 years. another example of why BB has to be fired.
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why JB is still an issue
JB is one of the most blatant examples of Bobby’s egotistical approach to this program. The difference between Brad Scott, Mark Richt, and JB is that Brad and Mark left because they were hired away. They were successful and that got them on other team’s radar. Jeff on the other hand was not performing at the same level once he was given the opportunity. He was not leaving for a better gig, people wanted him fired. What was Bobby’s answer in 2005-2006? He said, “Fans better be glad I’d like to keep this job!” http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls05/news/story?id=2277563 That entire article from back then shows the man behind the curtain. Bobby trusts his family more than anyone else. He could not look at the situation objectively because Jeff is his son. At the end of the article, he pulls a typical Bowden deflection, “If you get a flat tire, you fix the flat, you don’t fire the driver” Well that is fine unless you realize that maybe in this instance Jeff was the tire and Bobby was the driver.
As for the nonsense about losing many games by sheer bad luck, one play here, one bad play there. That is complete BS. If you put yourself in situation week in and week out where one bad play makes or breaks you, that is unacceptable. We went for years where one bad play may have cost us a championship, but to cost us multiple games a year is a problem. That is like Bobby’s idiotic statement about half the teams losing every week. That may be the case, but there are a lot of teams that are on the losing side every week and there are teams that are only on the losing side once or twice a year. It is a competition, not a coin toss. No one explains their success by claiming that half the teams have to win each week so it might as well by us.
You CAN blame one person for the decline of the program. BOBBY BOWDEN. He loves to talk CEO coaching. Well then the buck stops with him. He is responsible for hiring coaches that aren’t performing and for not getting rid of them once it becomes obvious that they aren’t doing the job. He screwed up the organizational structure by naming every other coach some version of Head Coach. He has developed a sense of entitlement that has undermined all that he has accomplished.
Jimbo was able to go out and recruit for a particular offensive system for a few reasons. First of all, he actually had an offensive system, he understands what he is trying to do and how to do it. Secondly, he spends the time evaluating recruits to determine if they will work in that system. Finally, he puts in the time to close the deal with the recruit and get that kid to buy in to what he is doing. You cannot say the same on any of these things with Jeff. Even when he resigned, Jeff did it because it was the right thing to do for Bobby, not because it was the right thing to do for FSU. Wonder where he learned that value, from Ann?
by WBisaNOLE on Nov 25, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Can I rec something more than once?
This comment should be allowed that feature.
by PBD on Nov 25, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It made sense?
It made sense to promote a 6-yr wide reciever coach, who just happended to be the head coaches son, to OC of the best college football program in all the nation…when FSU could have hired the best of the best, i.e. Norm Chow quality? You have clearly been ingesting a mind altering substance! Maybe I should just anethesize myself as well until BB is gone for good.
by kanole on Nov 25, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is part of something to help us better understand just what kind of hole we are in
and how we got there.
the greater point is what this says about FSU’s Admin and Bowden
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but anyone with any sense knows the Jeff Bowden debacle. Are we going to write about Jeff next year and the year after that? We got a game against the Gators this weekend. Let’s get some game analysis, offensive plays we are likely to see, defensive sets, stories about how we hate the Gators. Hell I’ll take anything. Let’s just drop the Jeff Bowden thing. It’s over and done and anyone who knows anything about FSU football knows it was a terrible decision made by the FSU administration.
by 1newplayer on Nov 25, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot oeople don’t know about it. You’re in the elite level of informed fans. Most are not like you
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok I 'll shut up.
I need to get away from this story anyways. Jeff Bowden makes me sick to my stomach and tomorrow is turkey day.
by 1newplayer on Nov 25, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He will be a thorn in our side until BB is gone and we are not paying him a yearly salary.
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 25, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And some of you need to stop living in the past
FSU will NEVER get back to what we were doing from 87-00. It will not happen. We need to stop living in the past and look toward the future. I’m at the point now where I will not even watch old games because there is no sense in it. It gives false hope.
And if you want to * about money etc……. that JB was paid to leave why? That is what it took for him to leave. For better or for worse. He is gone now and frankly after he has been gone for almost 4 years now I come on this site to look for some updates etc…… and what do I read “Is Jeff Bowden the worst coach in College Football History” Give it up! Do we as fans need graphs and a stupid article to remind us of these things? I don’t think so.
by sll1728 on Nov 25, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
As the decade draws to a close we can begin to draw more meaningful comparisons and put his time here into better perspective.
And I agree, I don’t think fsu will win another natl championshop in my lifetime. Were just too far behind to catch up. But it is possible to win one. Nobody expects to win the acc every year, we are all pretty realistic here.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but we should at least compete for one...hopefully.
by jasonole59 on Nov 25, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Th realistic goal is to just get to the champ game. Once there anything can happen. See ohst ovr miami, fla over ohst, ou over fsu,
if we win the atlantic 3 of every 5 years I’ll be elated.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one area I have to disagree. I def. think we win another NC or multiple with the right leadership.
whether Jimbo or someone else. Never is a long time.
by willdabeast on Nov 25, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't disagree more
I am all for being realistic, but this seems like an extremely short-sighted statement. Look, I am an FSU homer, but also think I’m realistic. I don’t expect us to repeat the ‘87-’00 stretch where we were Top 4 every year, but I do expect us to be a Top 10 or (Top 25 team at the very least) each year with a competent coaching/recruiting staff. I’d like to think we’ll be very competitive in the ACC, losing no more than 2 games in conference, and competing for an ACC title each year, or at least in the running. Whether we win the ACC, lose in the ACCCG or are just barely left out of the ACCCG, I would expect us to at least be in consideration for a BCS bowl (tie-in or at-large) each year. Perhaps I am being a little too optimistic, but I don’t see the ACC that much of dominant conference yet that this wouldn’t be a possibility, at least for the next 5 years.
So once we are in the position to challenge for the ACC and BCS bowls every year, at that point anything can happen, i.e. SEC and Big XII teams beating each other up, injuries, upsets, etc, allowing a solid, but perhaps not dominant, team at least a chance to win a national championship.
by Pinto on Nov 25, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FSUn
aren’t you 28? We need to give you a pep talk. We definitely can win multiple NCs in your lifetime. Just have to hire the right coaches. I think we’re half way there (which makes it so frustrating waiting for the other half). Much, much easier to turn it around now then back in the day. Look no further than Meyer and Saban for your proof.
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to believe we will win atleast one more in my lifetime
We have it made in the ACC Atlantic with only Clemson to compete with on a potential “elite” level. The Coastal is loaded in terms of “elite” potential.
We are still a name brand in college football in the 2nd most fertile state for high school football talent.
I believe in Jimbo as well. I think that he can lead us to an ACC championship in the next 3 years.
The national media, our alumni, and the college football world are waiting for us to get back in the mix.
We are not like Clemson, Texas Tech, Missouri, etc. We have national championships and heisman winners. We have the sweetest uniforms in college football. Once our team starts winning consistently, Doak will be packed, FSU gear will start being sold at Foot Locker again, and we will be a program to be feared.
I see this happening within the next five years, and I definitely have the mindset that we will more national championships in the upcoming decades.
by Zach_Nole on Nov 25, 2009 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
USC, LSU and OU
I would argue that they were pretty much as far back as we are right now before they got the right coach and turned things around.Before Carroll I can’t remember the last time USC was good and after 2 or` 3 titles they became the darling of the national media.We could easily win another title in the next five years and just a couple of 10+ win seasons would get us into the discussion every year.
by osceolafan850 on Nov 25, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We are not that far behind.
If we had a D in the top 1/2 of the country, we’d be there today—and that’s with our strong schedule. A D in the top 1/2 is not that hard even if you follow the BB philosophy, 1/2 the teams have to be in the top 1/2, and 1/2 have to be in the bottom half. We have some stars on the D and more stars coming in. We’re a bit too small on the defensive front and we can’t continue to play LBs at DL and DBs at LB, but that is fixed with a new DC and 2 yrs of solid recruiting. Success breeds success.
Miami had their glory years and has been trying to get back since. They have good coaches and good recruits. Granted, it is hard to make it back. Things are also harder now that we are in the ACC with teams like VT & Miami. But with the right coaches, we should expect to finish in the top 25 consistently, regularly be in contention for the ACC title, and have a NC run every couple of years.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there's millions of websites on the internet.
If you think this article is stupid, don’t continue associating yourself with stupidity and comment on the x’s and o’s threads, fanposts, and fanshots.
Personally, I find the the Jeff Bowden saga fascinating from a simple human studies standpoint. It went against every printed and orated teaching of “how to successfully run a business”, and it went on for a long time in the homes of millions of Americans. Fascinating to me.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 4:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
If you can't learn from history, you will repeatedly make the same mistakes.
You can’t have a historical analysis until Jimbo has been here for a couple of years. I think the JB stories end shortly after BB leaves. Naturally you would expect some more historical stuff a few years into to JFs reign as HC. But that would be for appreciation of what we currently have and of JFs achievements.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those who ignore history
are doomed to repeate it.
by kanole on Nov 25, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not talk about the keys to the game this weekend
I know why because the article that should be written is very simple and too the point and doesn’t require JB bashing or freaking graphs.
Keys to beat UF
1. No turnovers
2. No penalties
3. Play 110% on every play on offense and defense.
FSU will have to play a flawless game to beat UF this weekend. UF has a poor offense, but an offense that doesn’t make many mistakes while FSU defense has been mistake prone all year. If FSU defense can show up for this game and make tackles and play good sound defense then we have a chance. UF offense is very predictable because their offense has a handful of plays.
1. Tebow takes the shotgun snap and acts like he’s going to run but throws it down field.
2. Tebow takes the shotgun snap and runs.
3. Tebow takes the shotgun snap and hands off to a RB.
That is it folks. I’ve watched enough of their games and this is it. Now can FSU’s mistake prone defense stop those 3 plays?
On offense we cannot turn the ball over with turnovers, INT’s, fumbles etc…… because the Gators do have a good defense who is opportunistic. I question their defense though based on who they have played. Their defense has not played an offense like ours all year. In fact their defense has played mainly against conservative style offenses and they killed them because of it. If we can avoid turnovers and keep our defense off the field with good long sustaining drives that end in TD’s and not field goals we have a chance, but we must play flawless football to win. If we turn the ball over the gator defense can score. Florida could have lost 3 games this year, but their defense bailed them out by getting turnovers. They have gotten lucky all year and gotten all the breaks. We cannot give them anything to feed that hositle crowd or their team.
That is the keys to the game against Florida.
by sll1728 on Nov 25, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Florida Game
Can we stop the three plays UF runs? No.
In 11 prior games, our defense has been horrible. About as bad as the FIU team UF beat by about 50 last week. There is no evidence to suggest game 12 will suddenly be different.
Additionally, our offense will struggle against their defense. UF will force some fumbles and probably pick E.J. 2-3 times. Their front seven will be the best we played all year, and their secondary will squeeze our receiver’s routes and space.
We’ll be lucky to get as much production offensively as we had against Clemson, and UF will score more points.
The key to the Florida game is to recruit better, which is something else JB did a poor job of.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 25, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the coaches have openly told people we have no shot
today is wed. I’ll have the standard huge preview friday as always.
we have no shot. They would crush us even w/o tebow
our offense with ponder caz goodman and hudson might get 28. Without those 4 we will be lucky to score 21 before they pull their starters.
their defene isnlt good. It is all-time elite.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also, if I posted keys to the game like that, people will stop reading.
play 100%, really? That is an insult to all of our players as it implies they don’t try currently.
no turnovers isn’t realistic with our group isn’t realistic.
having lots of penalties actually increases your chance to win. I wrote about this before and it is proven.
your description of uf’s offense doesn’t really capture what they do, and tjat is a top 20 offense.
sorry for horrible typing, this new phone keyboard is terrible.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Talking about the game this weekend?
How do we beat UF?
Answer:
Invent a time machine and DON’T hire Jeff Bowden.
by jasonole59 on Nov 25, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Talk about lost time....
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Nov 25, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fanpost are always there if you feel you want to contribute what you think.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Nov 25, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, we know what Tebow does
and we can’t stop it. Meyer will be very conservative b/c he knows that’s all he has to do. He’s been that way all year b/c he knows he can only afford 1 loss and he got’s the defense such that being very conservative increases your chances of winning (see also Saban).
Echoing FSUn, I think we would have a chance if we were at full strength and UF had one of those terrible games that every team has at least once a yr. But even with that at this point we just don’t have the manpower.
Let me preface this by saying I love EJ and think he will become a great QB, but he is about to be taken to school. Nothing wrong with that, is the only way you learn and, in many ways, is better it happens now than 2 yrs down the road. But he is going to see speed that he hasn’t seen before. He will think that WR is open because he was open in practice and against MD and WF, but he ain’t open in this game. He threw 3 picks against MD after they had one game of film to prepare, but 3 other throws that I counted would have come back against UF.
At some point fairly early he’ll throw a short, “safe” ball and Spikes or one of the others will jump it and go the other way. and he’ll scratch his head and think to himself “I didn’t think he could get from point A to point B that quickly.” and he will have learned that future starting NFL LBs can do that so you have to be aware of it. The real challenge in this game is on Jimbo. You can’t go completely into a shell. You have to challenge them and EJ enough so that it is a good learning experience. But you don’t want to shatter EJ’s confidence either.
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i believe you just described a triple option (pass, run, handoff from shotgun formation)
This defense was beaten by UNC running the zone-read option. Therefore, I have overwhelming doubts.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 4:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
i believe you just described a triple option (pass, run, handoff from shotgun formation)
This defense was beaten by inferior opponents running the zone-read option. Therefore, I have overwhelming doubts.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 4:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
If I follow your keys...
We have no chance of winning. I have a better shot at winning the Lotto 5 times over than we have of our D playing a flawless game. GT doesn’t have that many plays. They scored 49. The keys to the game are whatever Jimbo is cooking up for the O, and I will agree that we can’t fumble 4 times and have EJ throw three picks and expect to win.
They will score. We will not be able to stop them. The best we can hope for is to force a few TOs here an there, hope they drop the ball and shoot themselves in the foot, hope we can limit them to 3s instead of 7s. But they will score and score and score and score and score and score—just like everyone else we have played this year. The key to the game is offense. How can we maintain drives. Can EJ be patient and consistent? Can we run the ball for positive yardage on occassion? Can EJ get the nose of the ball down instead of tossing it up like a beachball? Can we open up some mid-range passes to keep UF from sitting on the line, packing 8 in the box, and jumping our short routes? Can the OL protect EJ? Can EJ read the D, make some checks at the line, and make good decisions about when and where he runs? Can Reed break a long one? How about Pryor? Can Jimbo find a way to create some mismatches and can EJ recognize them and take advantage of them? Can EJ burn them when they blitz? Can someone gouge Spikes’s eyes?
Our only shot at staying competitive is to score, score, score. W/o Jimbo, there would be no hope of even a prayer. If we can pull off the miracle, it will be because we were able to keep scoring.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to capitalize "lost decade"
and add “copyright FSUn 2009” in the footer. (Remember, I assigned all rights, title and interest to you.) :)
by FiestaNole on Nov 25, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
FSUUncensored
I smell a book in the making.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct.
And for that I am most grateful. It would be a great book.
I would rather have a ‘lpotential maximized to the fullect extent’l decade thana best seller, however
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where have you heard the coaches say we have no shot.
That would be very wrong on their part imo. It is probably true, but the coaches shouldn’t be saying it openly like that.
by fsunole23 on Nov 25, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
first time since before Bobby, you can’t bet on fsu to WIN the game.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in private to some boosters. They definitely won’t tell the players, obviously.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't see Jimbo saying something like that.
I’m guessing it wasn’t him?
by fsunole23 on Nov 25, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think all of them with an honest look
at who we are missing will tell you that if they were close to you and honest.
were just way outgunned now with the injuries.
now, I have seen crazy shit happen and believe we have about a 5% chance to win. I’ll lay the plan out in friday’s preview.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we have a chance in hell either, but I have seen crazier stuff happen.
by fsunole23 on Nov 25, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't really think of a crazier scenario to be honest.
Appalachian State over Michigan was the standard I think but a win down there would beat it in my eyes. Michigan was not nearly the elite team UF is and there coaching was no where close to UFs. App State had the type of offense that Michigan struggled against and App State’s defense was pretty stout. I know they were in different divisions but App State was the previous national champ from 2005-2007 in their division and they had a elite team in their football division.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as you allude to
in retrospect, their talent levels and coaching acumen were not very far apart. UM probably had better talent down the roster. App St was much better coached. Not really a surprise when looked at analytically
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s what Mickey said:
-About beating the Gators: "It’s almost impossible. Almost."
Bobby supposedly said something similar. Something about maybe next year when they dont have TT… like TT is the only reason they are winning.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the inverse to Bobby's mantra
They are just one player, one play….away from being 8-4 or 7-5
by PBD on Nov 25, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Serena Williams-Patton Oswalt duo is one player away from winning the Wimbeldon Mixed Doubles Championship.
Think about it. Just ONE player away, dadgummit, ya know.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
FSUn, I hope you are just being negative in response to the current argument you are getting to pull this story...
I, for one, think it is Doomsday ridiculous talk that we cannot win another NC. What about getting a Defensive Staff to rival what Jimbo and Trickett have done? We ARE an ELITE Offense, and will only get better. If we had just a shadow of a Defense, we would be playing for the ACC Championship at a minimum this year! We are not as far behind as you say. Yes, we are currently the 3rd best team in FL (please don’t tell me USF has surpassed our Program), but Tebow is leaving and UM can fall back at any given time – they do not have a solid footing. We need some time for Jimbo to turn this thing around, but we certainly have the capability of doing so.
by HROB3 on Nov 25, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Come see a Bama game with me
and you will get pretty depressed. We would need a miracle to catch up. ait would take a guy making 50: a year gicing 2500 bucks yearly. It would take somehow recaturing all the young alumni who just won’t give because they BEVER experienced good football. College football made th leap in 01 or 02. We didn’t leap.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then I can only hope for what you lay out here to come true...
Winning solves most of this – which we have not done in 10 years! You have forgotten more about this stuff than I’ll ever know. I just cannot accept that our Noles will never again win NC’s. I’m informed enough to know that we won’t repeat our past success, hell no one else will, either. However, I just want to hold out hope that we have the guy in place who has been THE understudy to the current master of “how to construct a Program” (which, by the way, I would love to see an Alabama game in person. I have been to Auburn a couple of times and that is fantastic, so I can only imagine what Alabama must be like), resulting in us being on top in some capacity soon.
by HROB3 on Nov 25, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I don’t think a lot of older alumni and Bobby supporters get. The current FSU students have little care about FSU football or any other sport. The school is not generating die hard FSU fans who are full of tons of pride. It will have a lot of repercussions down the line.
I was lucky enough to begin attending FSU in 2003. I saw a 10 win season. I saw FSU beat UF. I saw some decent football and had the joy of going into Doak KNOWING we were gonig to win.
Bobby did help improve FSU a lot, but he’s also took us back many steps in recent years. The longer he stays the more damage he does and the closer we get to being back to square one.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also another thing that bothers me. This isn’t JUST FOOTBALL. The success and failure of the football team (basketball team to a much lesser extent) impacts the university overall. FSU is not known for it’s academics. The sports teams are what provide exposure. The sports attract students and generate a lot of income directly and indirectlry.
I haven’t seen the stats for this year. Last year though application were down at FSU. However applications at UF up. You can definetely partly attribute that to the fact that UF has had a great run in the big two sports (football and basketball) in recent years. I’m sure the success increased booster donations along with all the other sports related income: ticket sales, merchandise, post-season payouts, etc.
Not only does getting more applications increase their income, which they can invest in various ways, but it also inreases their academic prestige. They were able to select students with higher GPAs and SAT scores. The fact that students their have higher GPAs and SAT scores doesn’t imply anything about the quality of education at school, but most people don’t have the ability to realize that, and directly connect student profiles to quality of education.
I actually wouldn’t mind if FSU threw in the towel on sports and shifted focus toward purely becoming a quality academic institution (e.g. hiring more professors/staff, paying them better, improving facilities, expanding the campus, etc.) Just make some area of the school stellar.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You could almost compare the JB years in football with the TK years as Prez, damaging...
TK’s focus on athletics and protecting his buddy Bobby really let our academics slide, we’ll be digging out of hole like we’ve been doing because of the JB years in football.
Hopefully we hire an academic minded Prez who stays out of athletics, only time I want to see him/her involved is if they absolutely have to or if they’re sitting on the sidelines at the games.
BTW, we do have some stellar programs, the Colleges of Music, Dance, Theatre, Creative Writing and the Film School are some of the best in the country; right now we just need a Prez who can weather the budget storm, raise some money, and keep the top tier faculty we do have from leaving.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but the overall perception is not that great. Not terrible by any means, but not great. Also the fields you mention are not big money makers.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot...
The physics dept. and the law school.
Up until around 2002, FSU was something like No. 2 in the country in royalties from intellectual property (patents, copyrights, etc.) And that’s even taking into account that the suckers at FU stole out Nole juice and called it gatorade!
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
the paradox there is that as our governments are increasingly unwilling or unable to financially support public education, public universities are becoming, in a de facto sense, private universities. The one proven way to generate across-the-board income in that case for schools not named Harvard or Yale or even UF (not comparing quality but well-heeled alumni there) is through a successful athletic program (well, really men’s FB and BB).
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just Football?
UVA football and basketball suck. They are not in the Ivy League, but the school is still known for its academics.
I agree that the sports programs attract good students. I have some nephews who are brainiacs and could give a crap about any sports. Sports didn’t play a role in my decision of whether to go to UF or FSU. It was more about the people, the programs, and the facilities. UF had old musty buildings, professors who didn’t give a crap, and students who were all a bunch of asses. It was their attitude really. FSU had southern hospitality and more of a family atmosphere. It had staff and students who would talk to you even when you were visiting. It was like pulling teeth to get FU to let me sit in on a class when I was just visiting. They had these high-school type desks placed in the aisles and they sat me in one of those. Think it might have been a fire hazard. No one including the professor introduced themself. At FSU, people showed interest, said how great the school was, professor stayed after class to talk to you. FU felt like waiting in the unemployment line. FSU felt like home.
All other things being equal or close to equal, I agree that sports plays a role. If I were going on a job interview in Maine, they would probably know what FSU is but I doubt that they would know where or what St. Thomas is. They would know of FSU through sports. But if what they know is our sports program is known for cheating and that the players were doing what all of the students did, that is bad. If they think our players are a bunch of thugs who can’t read, that’s bad. If they know Myron Rolle is a Rhodes Scohlar & CP7 graduated in 2.5 yrs. thats good. It’s about having a quality and competitive team. If our players have the integrity to keep away from cheating (even if evryone else is doing it) and stay out of trouble with the law and can just play well—that’s all we need from an academic standpoint. From a sports standpoint, we want championships, wins, and pummelling of G8ters.
If you’re someone who doesn’t have a clue about what you want to do, then the programs will be less of a focus and sports & entertainment will likely play a bigger role. It’s hard to compare schools w/ different geographies. When I was trying to decide between UF and FSU, my girlfriend wanted me to choose UF simply b/c she was from Ft. Lauderdale and Gainesville was closer.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just attracting a lot students not just good ones is a benefit. Having a low acceptance rate is another stat that factors into perception.
Also I think you over estimate how well the average high schooler researches college. They just go by what they hear is good and who is popular (who is getting a lot of exposure in the media).
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my experience almost
I was an international student so i was coming from very far and picked FSU over other school because of the people, I was a foreigner they treated me like family, they taught me how to do the chop and how to hate the gators on the first day. That’s why I went to FSU and that’s why I love that school so much, my family think I’m obsessed with it.
Somebody set us up the Bowden. All your field are belong to us.
by malweka on Nov 25, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I’m a bit late, but can you describe in more detail the “leap” CFB made? And how did FSU manage to lag behind this “Evolution” so to speak. I do realize with the advent of conference specific networks, enormous TV deals, the presence of the BCS and more “National” recruiting wars than ever, that the stakes in college football have been raised to unprecendented levels. I am realistic enough to know that FSU has a tough road to regain prominence (And can ill afford to make mistakes).
I know certain schools simply have advantages that FSU does not. Programs like USC, Ohio State, Texas, SCUM, obviously should never be down too long (With fertile recruiting bases in their backyards and the resources spent/produced by those programs). Provided someone of competence is steering the ship. But thats not an excuse for us,ultimately. All in all, I guess I’m just curious to know what everyone else did (Or what happened) in 01/02, and just where the hell did we get left behind?
by westcoastnolefan on Dec 2, 2009 4:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I’m a bit late, but can you describe in more detail the "leap" CFB made? And how did FSU manage to lag behind this "Evolution" so to speak. I do realize with the advent of conference specific networks, enormous TV deals, the presence of the BCS and more "National" recruiting wars than ever, that the stakes in college football have been raised to unprecendented levels. I am realistic enough to know that FSU has a tough road to regain prominence (And can ill afford to make mistakes).
I know certain schools simply have advantages that FSU does not. Programs like USC, Ohio State, Texas, SCUM, obviously should never be down too long (With fertile recruiting bases in their backyards and the resources spent/produced by those programs). Provided someone of competence is steering the ship. But thats not an excuse for us,ultimately. All in all, I guess I’m just curious to know what everyone else did (Or what happened) in 01/02, and just where the hell did we get left behind?
by westcoastnolefan on Dec 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
resources
I don’t think there is any reason FSU can’t win the ACC 3-4 times per decade, and win our division 5-6 times per decade. I would be more than happy to have a team consistently ranked in the top 10 to 20 teams every year.
However, the idea that we’ll be back in the MNC talk on a regular basis is probably not going to happen. The resources are just not there to compete year-in-and-year-out.
Check out the following link when you’re bored, or during the second half of the Florida game. http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx
Look closely at the football revenue and expenditures for the SEC schools compared to FSU. Look at Ohio State, Texas, Oklahoma, Southern Cal, and some of the other major programs.
We have no ability to raise funds and generate revenue like these schools, and the ACC does not get the TV money that conferences like the SEC and Big Ten get.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 25, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think resources are a huge part of it but not always the most important.
At the end of the day, the product on the field is a direct result of the coaching. Yes there are many things that lead up to that but teams like TCU, Cincinnati, Boise State…do not have the resources we have and come no where close to having the fertile recruiting grounds that we have.
I beleive with elite coaches we will again have elite teams. I do not however believe that we will have the dynasty run ever again by us or anyone else for that matter, too much parody. FSU has the resources to compete at the national level again but has only a few great coaches, a bad administration and very poor recruiting until just recently. I think once 2 of the 3 are corrected we will return to top 10-15 consistently and have our 1 in 6 year or so run at the national championship.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in CFB, money fixes e erything provided you have access to an elite talent pool.
its not about what you do right, it is about the ability to fix your mistakes quickly by throwing money at the problem and not having to worry about a buyout amount.
the yankees, signed carl pavano, sterling hitchkock, and some other guy. Still paying for them years later. They don’t care, they got new working pieces because they can afford to do so. A mistake like that buries most clubs for a year or two. New york doesn’t miss a beat.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but first and foremost we are competing with the ACC
And if I am not mistaken, we have the best resources at our disposal, the elite talent pool, and we great coaches we should compete and win the ACC a lot. Then its kind of a lottery after that. We go undefeated then we get a look, if not we get a nice BCS bowl or at least a January bowl.
I know these programs have way more money but success will bring more money into the program also. Success begets more success.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ACC spending
I think the money/revenue challenge for us is that we are at a distinct disadvantage to many of the schools we compete with for recruits. It’s the extra money that allows for the practice facilities, lockers, and other stuff the schools use to woo kids.
If you check that website, you’ll see we are being outspent by many of our ACC competitors as well.
Honestly, some of this probably belongs in a different post than what a crappy coach JB was, but ultimately, JB was, and BB will be sent packing because of a loss of revenue from the football program. 60,000 in Doak on Saturdays will finish off BB faster than anything else.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 25, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugg, I did not know we spent less than them.
I still think we can get in the game every 10 years or so.
by diablonole on Nov 25, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we make it every 10 or so too
This is what happens when i have too much time on my hands.
The following just shows our finances compared to a few other ACC schools, and then against the major regional and national schools that we are trying to recruit against.
ACC
FSU
Football expenses $16,706,311 football revenue $24,877,536
Clemson
Football expenses $18,842,872 football revenue $35,205,168
Georgia Tech
Football expenses $16,128,865 football revenue $22,830,766
UNC
Football expenses $15,363,472 football revenue $24,163,760
Virginia Tech
Football expenses $18,276,468 football revenue $27,749,586
National and regional competitors for top recruits
Alabama
Football expenses $26,443,955 football revenue $64,606,392
Florida
Football expenses $22,860,425 football revenue $66,150,063
Georgia
Football expenses $19,836,966 football revenue $65,218,406
Ohio State
Football expenses $32,306,906 football revenue $68,196,195
Texas
Football expenses $22,569,086 football revenue $87,583,986
I’m not saying we can’t succeed, just that we can’t afford to make the mistakes the bigger schools can. That’s another dig against JB ;)
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 25, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you get this data and is it current? I’m curious how they calculate revenue.
by lul on Nov 25, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's government data
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx
I can’t say how much the numbers have been manipulated by each school (probably a lot) but this has been the best website I have found through the years.
Foosball is the devil
by IAHNole on Nov 25, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what were the numbers when we were winning in 97,98, 99, 00.. im sure those were reversed. winning brings fans, sales, and $$
by flmarlins7 on Nov 25, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True that
Here in O-town, it is hard to find FSU gear. You can get Miami, UF, UCF, and USF stuff fairly easily. Go to Sports Authority or Target, the FSU stuff is pretty slim—maybe a bleacher cushion or a baseball cap at SA; nothing at target. Occassionally you can find 1-2 t-shirts at Walmart and some clothes for the toddlers. If I want to get a t-shirt, I have to mail order from G&G. I’m certain that if the Noles were Nat. champs the situation would be different and there would be more $$ coming in.
It also depends on what you do with the money you spend. I am sure the BB statue brings in at least two 5* recruits every season. State institutions are not known for spending $$ wisely. JUst as we need good coaches to make the most of what we put on the field, we need good admins to make the most of the $$ we spend.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK State is a great example
They have money thanks to Boone Pickens but they don’t have the access to the talent pool that Texas and Oklahoma do out here. OSU does not have a name like they do and money can’t buy it. FSU had a name but it’s almost a generation so it’s now almost forgotton.
by Okinole on Nov 25, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I don't think people look at is that many those big schools have been playing football for 100+ years
We have played some pretty good catchup, but these schools have been men or co-ed for those 100+ years, have had Law Schools, Med Schools, so they’ve got many long time, multi-generation rich booster bases.
Being a women’s school up until the 47, not getting a law school until 66 and Med school until 2000, IMO is a contributing factor to why we don’t have quite the inflow of moolah as many of those other schools.
With that being said, with the budget problems we have, dwindling attendance and ticket sales will seal BB’s fate.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You hit it right on the head
That plays an huge factor in booster donations.
"It boils down to one of two things: It's either the horses or the jockeys. And we think we have some pretty good horses."
by RaysnNoles on Nov 25, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How could you give a million dollars to HIDEKI IRABU!!!
(Frank Costanza)
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What about programs like
Michigan, Notre Dame, UCLA, Nebraska? Large budgets with small returns on the gridiron for awhile now.
by kanole on Nov 25, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad coaching, back to the subject of JB being a bad coach..
Difference though is Notre Dame is the most popular team in America and will always have a huge following, Nebraska, Michigan, and Georgia have all played ball for over 100 years and have large followings and continue to sell many more tickets than we do even when they’re down.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geography
Some of it has to do with geography. My brother lives in Tenn. There is nothing in Tenn. So everything in Tenn. is about UT football and the lady Vols. I tried to find a souvenier once and all I could grab was a UT sweatshirt. Teams like Nebraska, Tenn., S.C., Bama, they have the benefit of geography from a booster standpoint.
FSU is not the only game in town or the only thing to do in Fla., so winning is more important. Tenn. could go 6-5 and they wouldn’t lose their fans or support. Where would they go? Dollywood? Vandy? They don’t have the competition FSU does b/c they are the only game in town.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And the important thing there is the word consistency.
it is so hard to win a natl championship. Its much easier to win one at UF. Texas. OHST. Bama.
miracles happen but they don’t happen repeatedly. Lets say I am fsu and you are uf. Were having a race. Racing to Doak. Only you get to start at the madison county exit and I start at the I75 exit. Can I beat you? Surem if you break down or if I drive 120mph and the cops don’t see me. But if we raced 100 times, how many can I win.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
skeptical of your pessimism at first
so checked NCs this decade. Are UF 2x, LSU 2x, USC 2x, UT, OSU, OU, and UM (1 yr split). Almost all “big money” schools, with UM being the outlier in 01. Does anybody really think Cincinnati has a shot this yr? So add UF, UA, or UT to that list. Still not as pessimistic as never in your lifetime but appreciating your point more.
by sperrett on Nov 25, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicken or the egg?
That’s the question re: big money schools and NCs. Maybe look at how much they spent in their “off” years when they were in a rebuilding mode vs. the money coming in and going out when they are winning NCs.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FSUn
do you still give the defensive edge to Clemson over UF, or have you re-evaluated?
by jasonole59 on Nov 25, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No uf got some guys back and clemson lost some to injury.
slight slight edge to uf, but we had hudson and ponder v. Clemson. Those are the two 1st round offensive players.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Hudson out against UF for sure?
by fsunole23 on Nov 25, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was limping badly and bobby called him very doubtful.
oh and datkos arm is still not right since clemson
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ponder was playing with broken ribs and throwing ints against Clemson
So I would only count Hudson out as being the diff.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no getting away from Jeff Bowden
It is part of Bobby Bowden’s legacy at this point and always will be. It was done and there is no smoothing it over. Personally I will talk about it as long as I want to whenever I want to.
People tying to monitor what people discuss and what topics are legitimate on a football forum are an interesting case study in themselves. Bud has done a great job with this site. People who don’t like the topics should start their own blog.
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
by DocHoliday2 on Nov 25, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Talking Jeff is completely relevant,
especially when a point is being made that Bobby had every opportunity to leave on his terms, the way he wanted to leave. His choices are what brought him to this point, and his choices (aka his terms) are the reason why this should be his last year.
It has been said before, but FSU couldn’t have basically named the OC of their choice with the production and athletes we had in 2001. To put Jeff in that position was completely irresponsible.
Unfortunately, I don’t think people recognize how reprehensible his hire was.
by jasonole59 on Nov 25, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently someone didn't like a topic started the other day.
Some crazed person started a fanpost saying that Ponder needed to go to the NFL & EJ needed to start b/c it would hurt recruiting if Ponder was the starter next year. The post disappeared. I think it was called “EJ in 10”. I thought it was a ridiculous post, probably just started to see how pissed off people would get.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fanpost wasn't 200 words
Convenient for me to delete it.
by FSUncensored on Nov 27, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only got 1 thing to say
I miss Greg Jones…
Ever notice how all the Jeff Bowden Era FSU players in the NFL use their high school in place of FSU when they are announced?
by SpearThis on Nov 25, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Best Hit Ever
That was the first game of my freshman year, we went up to UNC it was awesome. We need a power runner like that again. Greg Jones was a beast.
by SpearThis on Nov 25, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1aMu2pDOg
This is the best hit ever
by thirdcoastnole on Nov 25, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bud, to say FSU will not win another title in your lifetime makes no sense unless you are 99 years old. Jimbo has turned a broken down offense into a MNC caliber O in a few years and it is only going to get better. So if the right DC comes in and starts with a better foundation than Jimbo did on his side of the ball, FSU with proper scheduling can be in the hunt within a few years. You really have me baffled at such a dire forecast! On the one hand you mention how great the offense is now because of Jimbo but you are assuming the defense wont grow similarly?
by Egret on Nov 25, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What DC's are out there?
Anyone know who we will be looking at as a new DC?
Also what is the word on Amato is he really going? Sure hope so.
by SpearThis on Nov 25, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the candiddates have been discussed ad nauseum, but i would bet
Jimbo has someone capable of the task lined up.
by Egret on Nov 25, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in the featured stories is the dc search article
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as you wish
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/10/15/1058464/who-might-jimbo-fisher-select-as
now seriously I have to get away from this story. Feeling ill.
by 1newplayer on Nov 25, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mich appreciated. I can’t copy paste on the phone.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Update on DC search?
Would it be possible to see a new article similar to the above with an update? I know it was touched on in the last recruiting update. But it’d be great to see some more analysis on where we are now with the coaches we are attempting to land.
by TimScribble on Nov 25, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fisher is like saban lite. He doesn’t cuss his secretaries, but he had that asshole streak. The guy is running a very nice misinformation campaign right now.
further complicating matters, his agent reps 9 SEC head coaches. And a ton of nfl coaches. Jimbo never neds to talk with them. His agent can make is happen, and Billy Sexton is one helluvan agent.
Allen and amato and carter will be fired. That is the most important step. Remove the trash. Then we go about filling the hole, and honestly, for the first tim in years I am confident fsu will do something right. Because I trust Jimbo to ask Nick who he would pick if Nick needed a DC. We will end up with a very good DC. He might not be flashy but I can assure you were not hiring anyone who doesn’t demand excellent fundamental football and strict adherence to saban (belichek) style defensive principles.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just no longer see us as an underachieving team of an elite program. I think we missed the boat when we needed to take major steps to keep up with the elite. Important infrastructure steps that aren’t likely to come with the economy as it is. All the smart programs took advantage of the economy when it was super strong. They decured their futures. We did not.
this job just isn’t in the elite group of uf uga tennessee bama lsu michigan penn state osu ou texas notre dame and southern cal. If I am fisher I would definitely take one of those jobs over fsu if offered. We can’t compete with what they have, and what they have is CASH. Cash wins fb games.
I didn’t fsu wouldn’t, I just said I don’t think they will.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well they may not come with the economy as it is, but...
I think you at least have to leave the door open for our cash base to improve when and if things turn around economically for this country,. No, we can’t compete with the cash bases of those schools right now, but who knows what the future holds. The economy is coming back around, and it may coincide directly with Jimbo giving us at least some level of consistent winning. I’m not saying we’ll catch up overnight (or ever), but I think the potential is definitely there. We have a large alumni base and a fairly large stadium. I think alot of these put-off young alums are dying for a good product on the field. And I really want to see how they react when they have one.
If the wins come, the economy improves, and we don’t start catching up, then I’ll be ready to concede it will never happen. I think we’re behind the eight ball, but I also think we have the potential to begin close the gap considerably in the next 5 or so years.
Of course, I may be over simplifying things. I’m not saying we’ll ever catch up. Just saying we might have the opportunity to try soon.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Nov 25, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another issue with the alumni base, aside from being smaller than the public schools I listed, is that the womens college issue means we have many more male female umni than male. t they earn less and aren’t into football like we are. Oh and our alumni are for the most part in lower salaried jobs like teaching, which is awesome unless you need them to donate.
again, its just another area in which we have to overcome very long odds.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Earning less money...just like a woman.
Signed,
Bobby Bowden
by Squaaad Up!! on Nov 25, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dream of being the next T Boone Pickens
Its drives me.
by Miaminole on Nov 25, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes and
other areas. The inability to fix mistakes with money and the inability to be 1st class like UF or Bama.
tour one of those places if you can. Then you’ll get what I am saying.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
You’re really selling Tully Gym short.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Nov 25, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FSU has put money into the med school and law school
The FSU law alums contribute far more than the UF law alums—at least to the law school. Maybe the UF alums give their $$ to football instead of the school.
Needless to say that the investment of $ into the professional schools should help FSU close the gap.
by NoleLaw on Nov 25, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree
I think we could very easily move back into the elite status of football. If we have a top 50 offense this year, we lose maybe 2 games? Jimbo has revive our offense in just a few years and is recruting some great talent. Tricket is doing a fantastic job with the line and with a cohesive coaching unit after this year, I expect us to be competing for National Titles very soon.
College football seems to very cyclical right now. The elite teams are on top for a time and then they fall back for a year or two. Unfortunately due to some bad mistakes, we fell off for several years. But I feel that we are headed back in the right direction.
by TimScribble on Nov 25, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with some of that, however I have to ask something. Are cycles random? Because the ’’turn’’ languahe implies that there’s nothing causing these cycles.
were falling way behind areas that are just tough to see because it is not yet showing up on the field.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we will catch up as soon as the Tebow / Myer sextape leaks on the web
sorry I couldn’t help myself, but I do think there is something really creepy when watching those 2 talking about each other.
by BS37FSU on Nov 25, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im a baseball guy and I see the current state of college football similar to MLB. The good teams, that are well ran, have some years of success and then will take a few years back due to simply rebuilding.
I think college football is the same way, elite teams will have a down year or two because they are having turnover with graduates, drafts, etc. A well ran football team will be back competing with the rebuilt team in a couple of years.
I see that with especially this year with USC. In the past Texas, OU and Penn State are good examples. Even UF with the down year in between the championships, and I expect them to not be competing for the title next year if all those JRs leave.
I think FSU would have been right there with them if not for the bad decisions made in the lost decade.
But with the new staff, I think we are going to see a rebuilt team with success.
by TimScribble on Nov 25, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
while defense is mich easier to fix than offense, because it doesn’t really require much teamwork and continuity, elite defenders are much tougher to get.
by FSUncensored on Nov 25, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bud is a diabetic, meth-addicted cave diver.
His forecast makes sense.
by The K-Man on Nov 25, 2009 5:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Still don't agree with all you are saying. All FSU needs is coaching and players.
Jimbo seems to have a place in his heart for FSU or he would not have waited this long and put up with so much for this job.
When FSU starts winning 10 games a year again recruits see that Garnet and Gold uniform and helmet and want to wear it. Players will want to play here because we LOOK GOOD and have we have tradition as well.
FSU aint got the money that Bammer and Texas have but it aint as broke as everyone makes it out to be. Bama and Texas and uf had the same economic advantages in the 80’ and 90’s and those disparities were just as great for FSU at the beginning of the Dynasty. If FSU could overcome those obstacles then, they can now.
College football does not exist in a vacuum either. Changes aren’t permanent, but change is, to steal a line from Geddy Lee. Bear and Stallings both left Bama and Bama floundered and saban will leave eventually as well. Parseghian and Holtz left Notre Dame and they floundered.
FSU will be a player in the national scene as long as it has quality coaching and gets quality players, and based on our geography that wont be tough to accomplish.
Our female alumni ratio aint what it used to be and each the ratio gets more and more even. My parent(S) graduated from FSU in
by Egret on Nov 25, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Damn we need an edit feature
…my parents graduated in 1958 so we have 50 years of coed grads and that number will climb every year.
So I dont share your gloomy forecast and I hope that you may see brighter days ahead for us.
by Egret on Nov 25, 2009 3:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Though, like I said somewhere above
Many of the bigger schools have been co-ed or men only for 100+ years and have had law schools and med schools(and vet schools) for eons, obviously the 2 disciplines where the big salaries and donations come from; we’ve only had a law school since 66 and a Med school since 2000, and the Med school doesn’t offer specialties yet(like UF) where the big money lay so we’ll lag behind the curve for a whole IMO.
by karmanole on Nov 25, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have felt this way for years.
I’ve always felt FSU-UF was about class warfare
by Okinole on Nov 25, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The life span of the avg American male is 71 yrs
If one graduates at 21 – 22 yrs of age then you have 50 yrs til check out. FSU had been co-ed for over 50 years so it will soon have about as many living male grads as uf; probably more living male grads than Bama because when I went to school there in the 80’s the enrollment was 12-13k. Maybe it is up to 20k now but FSU is up to 44k so the male grad advantage is a non starter. The big salaries argument is valid now but that disparity gets smaller every year as well.
FSU has a smaller enrollment than uf and has more applicants. Standards for admission to FSU keep going up, due to competition available openings and while standards arent as high as uf, they are getting closer. A degree from FSU will bring higher salaries as well.
SOOOOO. my point is that while uf has had a head start, FSU isnt sitting still and the gaps are narrowing. The main problem has been BOBBY. This year FSU removes the cancer and the restoration begins.
It still comes down to players and coaching. As long as FSU can bring in the athletes (and Jimbo has proven he can) and can keep top level coaching staff, THAT coupled with being in the ACC should mean FSU can complete nationally on a regular basis. To think otherwise is baffling
by Egret on Nov 26, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great points as always
This article, and many others here, should be required reading for anyone that wants to go to an FSU game.
Those of us who truly live and die with the program had the problems figured out years ago, meanwhile the bulk of our jackass casual fanbase continues to praise Bowden and even cling to him more now that he has drawn increased heat. This is why I believe we’re looking at one more year with Bowden, and a few anxious weeks towards the end of next season when the Bowden family makes another last ditch grab for power and money.
As for the national championship issue, I think it’s best to readjust your expectations for FSU football. My dream is to see us win one more national championship in my lifetime, but I will be happy seeing us get back to the point when FSU football was fun. It’s hard to quantify “fun” in terms of stats or records, but I think we all know what it means.
by 38Noles on Nov 25, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Someone told me
The reason Tebow is so good on his feet and quick to scramble is that he took dance lessons in High School..So i did a little digging and .. sure enough there he was…
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Nov 25, 2009 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I feel like I am going to ruin your weekend for even suggesting this
but dust off (if you already did not burn it) a copy of the Bowden Way – 50 years of leadership wisdom. Written by Bobby himself and son Steve Bowden.
This biography came out in 2001 and going back now and flipping through the pages reading some of the BB philosophies I can only just sit here today and shake my head. He laid it out right there in black and white of what was to come over the next decade.
by Florida_State on Nov 25, 2009 7:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dont have a copy
Please enlighten me.
by Miaminole on Nov 25, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could not find the entire book on the web but
at amazon you can read the first chapter or so. Here is the link.
http://www.amazon.com/Bowden-Way-Years-Leadership-Wisdom/dp/1563526840#reader_1563526840
by Florida_State on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Our defense has followed a similar plight
Just think, if BB completely had his way we’d be looking at the current defense and JB would still be leading the offense. Wow, just imagine that.
When I start sucking at my job I will find something else to do and won't keep ruining peoples' lives by sucking at my job.
by mp212121 on Nov 26, 2009 5:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Egret
+1….Money is important but dont kid yourself if you dont think FSU can get back to an elite level….We never had the money of UF Texas ND Mich and OSU….But we had great coaching and more importantly in the state of FLORIDA…most schools would trade cash to be located in FLA…if we located in the middle of nowhere I would agree FSU couldnt get back but in our state Coaching plus Talent can win and win big….
by Fredric on Nov 26, 2009 6:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Have you guys heard G Reid talking shit about Urbie?
I like his confidence, but I don’t think this is the year to be running your mouth like that.
by fsunole23 on Nov 26, 2009 7:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The worst part is how Jeff squandered the 2003 and 2004 defenses. Those were disgusting defenses, and both were wasted. If Fisher is at FSU then, I think the ’Noles win a national championship one of those two years.
Oh well.
by FSUSOM on Nov 26, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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