Why do you respect Mickey more than Bobby?
by stevegrizzle on Nov 4, 2009 6:09 AM EST
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PrintI wanted to get some of your feelings on why you guys may or may not respect Mickey more than Bobby at this point in time, but as I wrote this it turned into a bit of a piece on why Mickey is not completely at fault for our poor defensive performance this year.
When I saw Mickeys video the thought occurred to me "Why can't Bobby be a man like Mickey and step down with class?"
To me it seems Mickey really has through all the years been a team player, and I'll elaborate a bit on what I mean by that.
First lets talk about Mickeys situation this year:
A)
Mickey, I truly believe and I know some others will agree with me here, wanted to leave last year but bit the bullet for US and stayed because he didn't want the DC reigns turned over to CTC for who knows how long. Mickey knew this wasn't going to be a great year defensively for the Noles but pushed his ego aside and liteally took one for the team.
The common perception of the Media and Casual Fan is that Mickey is responsible for the most part for our lack of adequate scheming and preparation on defense. Essentially they think the game has passed him by; I would have to disagree. While Mickey may not be on the cutting edge of defensive minds in 2009 there are much larger factors at work he as to why our defense is so bad this year, namely position coaches and lack of (talented) older players. Without adequately experienced and qualified position coaches to transition the young talent that has been brought in to our program in the last few year how can a DC be expected to Field a solid defense?
Think back to 2005: the game has changed a bit since then but not so drastically that is would explain our complete collapse of defense.
I want to add that I HIGHLY doubt (and I dont mean in the Preston Parker sense of the word) that bringing in CTC and Allen were Mickeys call.
2)
Mickey sat back and played second fiddle to BB for many years while in reality he was probably more responsible for FSU's success than Bobby. He didn't complain when Bobby got a statue, a stained glass window, and multiple times the amount of money he makes for doing literally nothing. Mickey didn't do it for the the glory or to pad his ego, he did if for the love of the game and the players.
D)
When Mickey saw that he was no longer able to be on the top of his game he was willing to bow out gracefully. He didn't try to hold the school hostage, he didn't ask for multimillion dollar buyouts in his contract, he didn't demand acknowledgment that he built program; he just had a small private statement and said good bye. That make him 10x the man Bobby is, PERIOD!
So why do I respect Mickey more than Bobby?
For me it is all about class, selflessness and of course loyalty.
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Sorry have to publish this now and will finish it later when I have the time
feel free to comments
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
finished, sorry about the delay
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
Because never once have I seen Mickey Andrews put himself above the program
Whereas Bobby Bowden does it every day
>>---l>
and bobby just said HE is choosing the new DC
can someone just off this guy and get it over with? i seriously cant take this anymore.
That's just great, if something were to go down
I guess TPD would send out a BOLO for me on TN.com. :)
Trust me, its been tough… I work with quite a few Gators and they openly express their support towards our figurehead and CEO.
where did he say that?
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
I know and you know........
but why in the heck would he say something like that?
think there’s 3 possibilities
A)Hes a delusional ego maniac
2)His PR firm told him to
B)He legitimately want to hurt the recruiting effect Mickeys retiring could have
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
I know and you know........
but why in the heck would he say something like that?
think there’s 3 possibilities
A)Hes a delusional ego maniac
2)His PR firm told him to
B)He legitimately want to hurt the recruiting effect Mickeys retiring could have
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
Mickey would never for a second believe he is above the program
Bobby has believed this every day for nearly a decade, possibly more. And while Mickey’s defense has fallen apart this year, in every other year this decade, with everything else collapsing around, he managed to put up top 20 statistical defenses save for one year in which they were 42nd.
He held the program together for years while a lazy and inept offensive staff and head coach where allowed put in not so much as an ounce of effort, or produce anything of value for 6 years. If it weren’t for Mickey, the name Seminoles in football, might mean nothing today.
Plain in simple, Mickey cares, Bobby does not.
"Fifty percent of the teams in country got beat last week" -BB
Florida State Football will never accept falling in the bottom half
and*
"Fifty percent of the teams in country got beat last week" -BB
Florida State Football will never accept falling in the bottom half
I respect them both. I wish that Mickey would have stayed 1 more year with Bowden so they could leave together.
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
No disrespect intended, but you're freakin' delusional, deranged, and possibly impaired, and again I say this with all the respect you truly deserve.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Yeah, I agree. He is trying to play us. No one in their right mind actually believes that garbage.
******TROLL ALERT*******
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
He just joined yesterday, and if he is for real that is fine and he is welcomed to express his opinion, but I went ahead and made a note of his IP address just in case.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I believe that so called garbage
You know,I’ve listened to alot of these opinions on how it’s all BB’s fault for the way this team has played the last couple of years and it all sounds like a bunch of bull.The coach can only do so much,but when it becomes gametime,it’s still up to those players to get out there and perform.And for the most part,this team(our defense) has been underachieving for most of the year.I’ve seen them get beat on routes,miss their assignments,and just flat out give up on plays.I’m just saying that maybe we shouldn’t crucify Bobby or Mickey either when the players(mainly our defense) should stand up and hold themselves accountable.I respect and appreciate Bobby for years of terrific games coached and for recruiting such exciting players as C. ward,W.Dunn,B. Johnson,P. Warrick,and the list goes on and on.
But when they're consistently being put in a position to fail
Blame has to fall on the coaches. Surely you see this. Our defensive performance isn’t due to the players “not getting it” or something like that. As we showed in another thread, we have more talented players on defense, and yet that unit is a bottom 10 one whereas the offense is top 5! That is an indictment of coaching if you ever saw one.
>>---l>
Maybe so
I just don’t think it’s fair to say that all the blame should fall on the coaches.I still think the players should accept some of the responsibility.Mickey,I’m sure,didn’t just change the way he coaches defense over the last couple of years.The only thing that has changed has been the players.
The fact that he didn't change is the problem though
Because offenses did. His famous man cover one scheme struggles mightily against the modern offense. Read the great articles FSUncensored wrote entitled “Size Matters” Part 1 and Part 2 and you’ll see what I’m talking about. They’re pinned to the left (and I think the right side also) of the front page. We have had a regression in talent too, due to recruiting (which is also their fault), but with coaches like Jody Allen who never played defense or coached it anywhere before Bowden hired him here and Chuck Amato who coasts by on a sense of entitlement, these players don’t have a chance at success. It’s time we turn the page on defense.
>>---l>
I agree that something needs to change
I don’t agree that BB and MA are the problem.These same coaches lead this school to being one of the most dominant football programs in the nation.It’s funny,the only time I’ve ever heard a bad word about either one of ’em has come from gator fans,or from our own fanbase over the last couple of years because of our not so impressive record.
Read the articles here
All of them explain why we feel the way we do. We didn’t arbitrarily decide that Mickey and Bobby need to go, we were driven here by their actions. The game changes. Just because these two men led us in our dynasty years does not mean that they are currently capable of taking us back. You need not look any further than our offensive staff to prove this. Young, energetic, smart, tirelessly working coaches are necessary to adjust to today’s game and produce successful results. By the way, this is not a downturn of “a couple of years.” We’ve been irrelevant on the national scene for 8.
>>---l>
Well then,how about Leon Washington,Myron Rolle,Everrette Brown,Lavernius Coles,Antonio Cramartie,and,oh yeah,Christian Ponder.And those players who played 10 years ago played under these same coaches that are being blamed for our poor year to date.
WRONG
Well then,how about Leon Washington,Myron Rolle,Everrette Brown,Lavernius Coles,Antonio Cramartie,and,oh yeah,Christian Ponder.
With the possible exception of Coles, Bobby didn’t recruit any of these players. Coles was kicked off the team, Cromartie had 1 career start and Brown, Washington and Rolle played off of freakish talent alone with zero coaching.
And those players who played 10 years ago played under these same coaches that are being blamed for our poor year to date.
Wrong on so many levels
Everyone has a right to have an opinion.The point that I was trying to make was,Bobby and Mickey were coaching the same teams those guys played on with the exception of Amato and Fisher.The only real thing that has changed is the players,wether it be the caliber of player or whatever,and the fact that Bobby doesn’t have near as much say so on the offensive side of the ball.You might not like it,but there is just as much truth to what I’m saying as there is to what your saying.
You do realize that 2 coaches account for about 20% of a staff, right?
What changed is that Bobby doesn’t recruit. What changed is that Bobby has no role in gameplans anymore. What changed is that Bobby put his family and friends above FSU by giving them jobs when they weren’t qualified. It is stunning that people actually believe that this selfish 80 year old man is still capable or deserving of running this football team.
>>---l>
FACT
The only real thing that has changed is the players,wether it be the caliber of player or whatever
WRONG, we still attract elite players and EVERY position coach and assistant coach has changed. Today’s players are NOT being coached the same as they were 10+ years ago
You are willing to endure another awful season just to see Bobby and Mickey stay 1 more year?
You got to know when to pull the plug man!
With Ponder leaving after next season and Jimbo most likely taking over next year I just wanted to see them leave together. I really think they will win 10 games next year. I really feel that way. I love Florida State as much as the rest of you.
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
You will probably get you wish because this is probably the last year for both.
So you will probably see them leave together.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Why do people want to see them retire together, I've never understood that...
Let Mickey have his day in the sun for crying out loud, if BB announced at the same time he’d be all everyone was talking about, MA would get barely a mention and he doesn’t deserve that.
I Respect Both Of Them
You can’t talk FSU or FSU Football without mentioning both of them. You have to respect the careers that both men have had. You can be disappointed in the way they have ended, you can disagree with the decisions they’ve made, but you can never lose your respect for them.
by Nole_Fan_Til_I_Die on Nov 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions
Just because
People get old and senile is no reason to disrespect them. When I get old and senile, I want my kids to respect me and I still want to be respected for my lifetime acheivements if I have any. You know the golden rule, do on to others . . .
I agree BB is in his twilight and wish he would go waste away in Margaritaville (and enjoy himself in the process), but I don’t wish ill upon the man or disrespect him regardless of whether he is having a hard time letting go of our beloved Noles. If I were the coach, you’d have a helluva time getting me to leave.
Absolutely Nolelaw.
I grew up IDOLIZING BB & MA. I think lots of folks will find it easier to remember their accomplishments when they leave. However, I don’t ever want to see them remembered negatively or god forbid anything negative or overly hurtful come to them.
I hope that when you're old and senile
You aren’t running a multi-million dollar corporation on which people’s livelihoods depend. Because I’d then start losing respect for you when you made selfish decisions that affect people around you.
>>---l>
Yes, I agree
But not due to forces of nature such as age and senility. There are also differences between personal admiration, integrity, and respect and winning and losing ball games.
Meyer wins games but I don’t respect him, because he’s a poor sportsman. He runs up the score on teams that are getting blown out. The Spikes eye-gouging is coached and unnecessary. It’s Meyer mentality. Guys at bottoms of piles get elbowed and jammed—that’s part of the game. What Spikes was doing was not. I have no doubt that Meyer would’ve played Tebow against LSU even if Tebow wasn’t ready to go.
With BB, I have compassion for the guy. It’s kinda like when Jordan was having trouble giving up playing. You still respect him, even though he was playing for the Wizards, couldn’t do the things he once did, and was losing games. But I don’t disrespect a guy for getting old and having trouble letting go of something that has been the most major part of his life for decades. I put myself in BB’s shoes and I can understand why its hard. Reality will set in and he will go, but not in the way Jeff Bowden went out.
We do not disrespect because he is old
He is losing respect on a daily basis due to the poor lack of judgment he has shown and the extremely selfish decisions he has made during the last 8 years.
How can you continue to have respect for a man that puts his personal agenda ahead of what is best for the university?
Again,all of your comments are based on your own opinions and are not shared by everyone.Especially me.I can remember Joe Paterno being almost in the same predicament years ago where Penn State had fallen from the top ranks and was being pushed in the same manner to retire or for the university to make a change.Looks like they rebounded nicely over the past 2-3 years.I respect Bobby and appreciate the man for what he has done for FSU,but I think that maybe the players might would in a sense respond better to a younger coach like Jimbo,just someone who they might be able to relate a little better to and get fired up to play for.
Completely different
Joe Paterno was at least smart enough to surround himself with qualified assistants hired on merit rather than because they were his buddies. Bobby has done the opposite.
>>---l>
Our opinions are also based on facts
The facts are that Bobby has made very POOR coaching decisions in the last 8 years which have resulted in very POOR results.
Players would also respond better to coaches who actually knew what they were doing.
I respect the elderly
But I’ve lost respect for our HC. Bobby is no longer about the team or the University, it’s all about the Bowdens.
Jordan didn't defy management and force his inept son into the starting line up either
I know his son or sons weren’t old enough at that time, it’s just a metaphor for all you Warchanters hanging around.
Thing is Jordan left Chicago at a pinnacle point in his career, I see his days with the crappy Wizard team kind of like I see BB going to coach at UAB, it’s not like Jordan stuck around Chicago for ten years longer than he should have collecting a big paycheck while some better young player got little playing time or sat the bench or in our case Jordan sat the bench and collected a big paycheck.
My sky high respect for him started going down when he hired Jeff and the way he hired Jeff, threatening to leave, and more so the fact that Jeff wasn’t even qualified. It continued to sink as those years went by and Jeff got free pass after free pass from the old man, never criticizing the Offense, throwing players under the bus, while we continued to sink further and further for 6 years.
Then when JB finally did the right thing and left, it still kept sinking, when he says he wanted Jeff to stay, are you serious Bobby, then his very loyal self throws the rest of the O staff out of the bus, if Jeffy’s gone then everyone is gone, then(don’t care what anyone says) he gets Dave Hart sacked, gets PT sacked, and now down to all these stupid comments, I’ve lost a good amount of respect for the guy.
The head coach, a highly paid head coach is there to win games, to put a product on the field to win games to put butts in the seat and make money for the boosters to pay your big fat salary, among other things. Bowden has put his own personal interests time and again the last 8-9 years above that of the program and that is disrespectful to everyone who supports the program, who gives good money to support the program and pay your salary, point is he didn’t give a crap about anybody else but himself and the fans have acquiesced by not showing up and canceling ticket orders and booster donations.
And please don’t say, well Bowden saw the error of his ways and hired Fisher to save the program, BS, Jimbo was one of the few(maybe only) highly qualified candidates who would agree to coach in that awkward position, and then Bowden doesn’t even let him choose his own staff, love you Dex, but you got no coaching experience, you’re hired. Only way to keep Fisher was the hasty HCIW deal, and Bowden has said he wan’t for it, sheesh he tried to get Jimbos contract bought out, dude if all that doesn’t lessen your respect for someone then I don’t know what would.
I respect both of them.....FSU likely would not have become FSU without them.
Regarding the least few years of horrible seasons….what about horrible scheduling??? Why the heck do we want to play Miami opening game of season. Give me last years schedule any day.
Bobby and Mickey
Both of them are good coaches. The defense kept us up during the last couple of years before the Fisher Offensive plan along with Rick Tricket could take hold. Now that Mickey is lleaving I know that if we go out and hire a great DC that we will be just fine. Bobby should sit in on the decision with Fisher. People might disagree with that…..Bobby hired Jimbo. Now did Bowden hire his son…..YES! His son coached under Rict for a while and Bobby thought that if he did retire that he could pass it on (the team) to another Bowden. I do agree that the decision Bobby made was wrong but at the time I thought we would be fine because Jeff was there for a while. We have a hell of an offense with Jimbo…. now lets hire a DC that can stop the option and leave Bowden in for one more year so he can leave on a high note. With Ponder returning and the OL we have…the offense is strong. Lets stop the damn option (which if you look back we have always struggled to stop it even in the ‘94 Orange Bowl) and we will be on top. We have great speed in the secondary (who is out of position a lot), a horrible defensive front, and good linebackers. Hire a DC, keep Amato with the LB’s (he is actually doing ok), replace Jodi Allen, and a secondary coach (do not let the DC coach this position).
If I mis-spelled some words or names……I am tired. GO NOLES! It is ok to disagree on how to run a team but its not ok not to love FSU!
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
Actually Bowden didn't hire Jimbo or Trickett
he just took the credit for their hiring. Jimbo wouldn’t even be at FSU if they didn’t offer the HC-in-waiting portion of his contract.
And Bobby Bowden is not FSU. I’m so tired of hearing people say that. People like you onyl take uneducated guesses and are blind to what is really going on.
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Nov 7, 2009 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
Bobby actually took Jimbo Fisher off of the list for possible OC position. Jimbo called Bobby and said why did you do that? Bobby had thought that he was not interested. When I say that BB is FSU……..he put our program on the map. Where were we before him? GO NOLES!
I want FSU to keep Bobby.............He is FLORIDA STATE>
Not a valid argument for continuing to employ him at all
Just because he built it doesn’t mean he can stay around as long as he likes while he is bringing it down. He is currently hurting the program. Not even you can deny that.
>>---l>
No Amato is not doing OK
Doesn’t coach and doesn’t recruit. That’s the definition of not OK. Bobby will have no say in the next DC hire. He’s done in early December.
>>---l>
Yeah
Lets hold off on rewarding the guy that is keeping us competitive. Jimbo can wait a whole year more so Bobby can “leave on a high note.” He made his bed, he can sleep in it. And as DK said, Amato is not doing okay. I really wish you would have started with that sentence so I would have known to disregard the entire thing.
Because Mickey has been consistent
Unfortunately, for whatever reason(s), Bobby is not the same fellow who came to Tallahassee years ago. he has lost his will to win and his ability to be objective about his or anyone else’s performance. But loss of respect, for me, came when he hired Jeffrey. No excuse for the hire or the support.
fm
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
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