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Preview and Game Thread: Auburn Tigers vs Florida State Seminoles, 7pm EST

Auburn Tigers at Florida St. Seminoles, Dec 17, 2009 7:00 PM EST


Coming off a 62 - 55 win over Georgia State, the Seminoles turn their attention to the Auburn Tigers as they try to go two for three against the SEC this year. The Tigers are currently 5 - 4 and will be playing their first game in 10 days. This is the final game before the Seminoles start ACC conference play against Georgia Tech on December 20th. Take a look inside for the rest of the recap of the Georgia State game and for tonight's preview.

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vs

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Game Time: 7pm EST

Television:  FSFL/NESN

Star-divide

On Tuesday night, the Seminoles broke out of the gates and went on a 23-8 run to start the game. Solomon Alabi was scoring easy buckets in the paint and it appeared that the Seminoles would pull away. They only turned the ball over once, but once they got into cruise control mode, the turnovers increased and Georgia State pulled within four points with a little over a minute to go in the first half. Florida State responded to Georgia State's run and opened up a 12 point lead at the half. With 9:46 to go in the second half, the Seminoles had a 17 point lead and appeared to be cruising to victory. However, Georgia State battled their way back into the game during a turnover happy second half that resulted in a closer game than many expected.

Georgia State had a good defense statistically heading into Tuesday night's game, but their level of competition was rather poor. They entered Tuesday night's game with an agenda to play tight, pressure man to man defense and it worked. Turnovers. They forced turnovers and took advantage of the opportunities provided by them.

 

 

 

This was the highest TO% that a Georgia State opponent had all year and Florida State is the best team that Georgia State has seen thus far. The key to the game was that Florida State really limited the Panther's eFG% and did a nice job on the offensive boards. Florida State currently ranks 337 out of 347 in TO%. This game had moments that the Seminoles played up to expectation and moments that they played to the level of their competition. Regardless, it is a win and it was a well earned after a week off.

Tonight, the Seminoles focus on their third SEC opponent of the year: Auburn. Entering the game, the Tigers have a 5 - 4 record with victories over Virginia, IUPUI, High Point, Alabama A&M and Niagra. They lost to Troy, NC State, Central Florida and Missouri State. They currently have an Offensive Efficiency of 98.7 (Rank: 200) and a Defensive Efficiency of 93.1 (Rank: 73). Playing good defenses in the non-conference schedule will only help the Seminoles in the long run.

The Tigers will likely start the following lineup:

F #4 Lucas Hargrove 6'6 205lbs Senior Pontiac, SC
F #34 Johnnie Lett 6'8 210lbs Senior Mobile, AL
G #12 DeWayne Reed 6'1 175lbs Senior Houston, TX
G #20 Frankie Sullivan 6'1 185lbs Sophomore Uniontown, AL
G #24 Tay Waller 6'2 180lbs Senior Manchester, GA

Once again the Seminoles face another small lineup on a guard heavy team. The average height of the Tigers is 6'4, ranking 212th in the nation. The Seminoles, however, are the tallest team in the nation for the second year in a row with an average height of 6'7. Their effective height ranks 10th in the country. Advantage Noles.

The Tigers, however, are a relatively experienced team and have a number of JUCO transfers. Last year, the Tigers made it to the quarter finals of the NIT tournament, losing 74-72 to Baylor. The Tigers have 1.92 years of collegiate experience compared to 1.28 for the Seminoles. As more and more players are making the move to the NBA after one year of college, the experience numbers are trending downward.

DeWayne Reed and Lucas Hargrove are the work horses for the Tigers, playing in excess of 80% of the team's minutes. Reed is averaging 15 points per game, Hargrove puts up 13, as does Sullivan. Reed has started 68 games in his career at Auburn and is their leader. His offensive rating is 95 and he has a reasonable TO% of 20 for a true point guard. Frankie Sullivan is statistically their best offensive player with an ORtg of 113; he also shared Auburn's Sixth Man of the Year Award as a freshman.

As a team, the Tigers do a few things well and a number of things not so well. First, the poitives: jump shots inside the arc and forcing turnovers via steals. Once again, the Seminoles are facing a smaller lineup that generates a lot of turnovers. Auburn forces teams to turn the ball over on 23.8% of possessions. They are shooting  53.6% from inside the three point line. On the flip side, they do not shoot well at all from behind the arc, with a 29% three point shooting percentage. Additionally, they do not shot well from the free throw line. Despite the fact that they create so many turnovers, the Tigers do not do a good job limiting turnovers on the offensive end with a TO% of 22.3%.

The Seminoles will likely start: Kitchen, Dulkys, Gibson, Singleton and Alabi. Once again, the Seminoles will need to be effective early in the paint to keep this lineup in the game for long stretches of the game. If the turnovers start to climb as Auburn increases its pressure in the back court, it won't take long for Hamilton to move to his smaller lineup. This was the lineup that worked to a 15 point lead in the first half. One concern is that there may be a drop in concentration as players come off the bench with such a large lead, meaning the 'no reason we can't continue to run up the score no matter what we do' attitude. This is simply a theory/reflection on Tuesday nights game. The Seminoles need to play a complete game; they have yet to do that this year.

Keys to the game:

1. Take care of business early. Auburn is coming off an exciting victory over Virginia in which they scored on a last second basket. Do not give them any hope that they can win this game. Continue to establish the front court game. Alabi started to show some nice footwork on low post moves during the last game. Keep buidling his skill set.

2. Force Auburn to the perimiter. Auburn has yet to prove it can reliably shoot from behind the arc. With the Seminoles interior defense, their eFG% should be low for the night and lead the Seminoles to victory. Auburn has lost every game in which its eFG% is less than 50% except for their game against Niagra.

3. Turnovers.  This has to be fixed and may continue until their is an absolute understanding of who is going to run the show. There have been flashes of good games from all of the Seminoles guards, but the go to guy has yet to be solidified. 

4. Win big. Confidence. Resume. Up next: Georgia Tech. Put together a complete game.

Florida State should win this game. However, Auburn is going to enter the Tucker Center with confidence and mission to knock off another ACC team. On paper, this should be a big win for the Seminoles, who are currently favored by 13. Knowing the tendencies of this team, it will likely be a low scoring affair in which turnovers will dictate the scoring patterns, resulting in the dreaded stair case pattern of scoring that has troubled the Seminoles previously.

Prediction:  Seminoles 67 Auburn 58

Game Time: 7pm EST

Television: FSFL/NESN

Online Viewing: Justin.tv

Go NOLES!!!

Cheers,

TC

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They are tiny!

Didn’t realize Auburn was so small. I guess a lot of teams are small compared to us.

by NOLES149 on Dec 17, 2009 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Let's hope

They don’t figure out how to shoot the long ball like UF did against us. What a nightmare. I’ll be at this game so they better have it together. The lazy complaining fan has spoken!

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Dec 17, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

Is Kitchen injured?

Or is he just playing lazy?

The gf’s comment about Kitchen’s play- “He looks like he smokes 2 packs of cigarettes a day.”

Kitchen just seems like he is going through the motions, imo.

by fsu44 on Dec 17, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder if Hamilton has considered starting a 3-guard lineup once during the

non-conference schedule? I’d like to see how effective it is starting a game, and this Auburn game (BCS conference school, game at Tally, the aforementioned short starting five the Tigers will throw at us) would seem to me a good spot to thow it up the flagpole to see what happens.

It sure as heck seems like FSU is going to have to get used to a 3-guard lineup for ACC play, seeing as how the traditional 2-guard set up = many turnovers for the Noles.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 6:09 PM EST reply actions  

Hamilton is a little stubborn with the 3 guard lineup

I think hamilton knows that we should start 3 guards to start the game. But his vision for the team would be our huge size just overpowering teams. He wants the 3 big guys starting so bad, but truly knows the team excels the most with 3 guards

by DeanerNoleProphet on Dec 17, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with you totally on Hamilton. Hey, who wouldn't want to take advantage of all height?

However, IMHO, it doesnt appear that we have a good enough point guard to get away with the 2-guard set up.

At least for now, it looks like we may have to go with the 3 guards, and just keep rotating in big men all game, keeping the bigs fresh.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Sparse crowd

To say the least.Students all gone. They need to rethink the ticket set up here. More on that later.Turnover #1 and counting….

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Dec 17, 2009 7:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Feel like some of this talent will go to waste

I think Coach Ham would be best as an assistant.

by CSI Nole on Dec 17, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Where's Steve Robinson?

At UNC as an assistant. When I watched the UF/FSU game, you could tell that coaching had a lot to do with that outcome.

by CSI Nole on Dec 17, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Robinson is a great assistant.

He’s just not head coach material. I think he knows that, too. He also makes nearly 300K as an assistant and is the 2nd highest paid assistant in the ACC out of the 8 public schools.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Alabi

Those highlights I saw of Alabi at the beginning of the year were very misleading. Sure, he’s tall, but other than that he’s an absolutely horrible basketball player.

He steps out of bounds, drops the ball out of bounds, just generally doesn’t know what he’s doing on the court.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:17 PM EST reply actions  

Xavier

I like Gibson, but he’s gotta play better defense than that, he looks weak and shies away from contact.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions  

Snaer

He might be the best player on our team RIGHT NOW. The kid’s got a great all-around game. He’ll be a good one.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

This always happens.

Why is it that mediocre teams always seem to heat up against us? This happens over and over.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It's sort of like our football team, no?

Lots of talent. Poor execution/fundamentals. Make opponents look much better than they are. All defense, no offense (the opposite of football, but still). Lot of close games because of the aforementioned.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

HA

At least we kept our streak alive for passes into the front row. What is that, 7 straight games now?

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

Loucks!

We’ve had way too many of those bonehead plays this year. Who is he throwing the ball to?

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:33 PM EST reply actions  

Luke

He’s a smart player, but just way too slow to play major college basketball. Everyone can see what he’s about to do as he’s doing it.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed, 110%

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice pass...Gibson?

Whomever it was, nice fastbreak pass.

Followed up with a bad entry pass on the next possession, but a nice move by Gibson.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

They SHOULD have called a jump ball 30 seconds ago when Dulkys was holding the ball and did nothing, NOW they call this crap? Basketball refs suck.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

jump ball, WTF?

open your damn eyes refs, he was getting MUGGED!

by TCHOP561 on Dec 17, 2009 7:37 PM EST reply actions  

Alabi needs to make a move. He just stands there and shuffles his feet.

They could’ve easily called a foul, jump ball or a travel, imo.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

There should have been a jump ball on the previous possession

So they called it as he’s getting mugged…. go figure. Where are these refs from, ACC?

by CSI Nole on Dec 17, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I HATE about organized basketball.

Little ticky-tack fouls just completely change the game. Basketball has become the game of wimps because refs don’t let you really PLAY. They need to watch some hockey.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 7:43 PM EST reply actions  

crowd little better now...

Still looking sloppy.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Dec 17, 2009 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

WOW!!!

SWAT!!! LOL…. this ref is a joke

by CSI Nole on Dec 17, 2009 7:58 PM EST reply actions  

It looked good at first.

On second glance, the announcer was right, it wasn’t so much a swat as he just got in the way. That “shot” wasn’t going in anyway.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

half time show...

Sorry you guys watching tv don’t get to see the golden girls…demercy wishes he had half their coordination…

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Dec 17, 2009 8:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

You mean Alabi.

And as I say that he does a ballerina tip in.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Reid and Reed collide

You knew they wouldn’t call anything, they won’t take Auburn’s star out of the game like that.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 8:20 PM EST reply actions  

Dulkys picks up his 3rd foul

Only Nole with more than 1

Auburn has 5 guys with 3+

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

Noles getting the ball inside to Alabi

First Singleton with a bad pass that gets there
Then DK gets the offensive rebound and then makes a sweet pass to Alabi
Who makes a move and scores

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions  

of course

he misses the ft – they’ve hit only 2 of 6

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:35 PM EST reply actions  

great. here we go again.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 8:39 PM EST reply actions  

I know basketball is a game of runs, but COME ON!

How do we always do this? This game should be over and we let them back into it.

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

Here we go again

Playing sloppy and turning the ball over. Auburn cutting the lead to just 5

by CSI Nole on Dec 17, 2009 8:41 PM EST reply actions  

Ugh

Need to control glass – they miss a three but dunk the rebound

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:41 PM EST reply actions  

They miss

Loucks runs the court – quick little 5-0 run to put it back to 9

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions  

But they trap

And we look bad breaking it.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

Barely break it

But we get it down to Alabi who’s guarded by a 5’7" guy

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Alabi didn't even look like he was trying to shoot right there.

He was open and just didn’t take it, it was like he was waiting to get fouled. He needs to learn how to go up STRONG!

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

Damn Loucks!

Foul him if you’re going to foul him, but don’t just grab and let him make the shot!

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 8:49 PM EST reply actions  

1 possession. yikes

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions  

Missed Auburn 3

Singleton with the block after the offensive rebound

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions  

It is such a luxury to have a big guy

who can hit his ft’s (7-9 tonight) 19 pts leads all scorers and he has CARRIED us down the stretch so far.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow Alabi - not a great result

But great hustle on the offensive glass.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:08 PM EST reply actions  

lucky we held on to that one.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

FSU breaks the trap

Singleton gets fouled on the breakaway – FSU up 3 with 2 ft’s ocming.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

most frustrating team ever

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Dec 17, 2009 9:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

FSU plays bad defensive

But still contests the missed shot – Defensive rebound

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:12 PM EST reply actions  

bad pass

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:12 PM EST reply actions  

crap

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:13 PM EST reply actions  

tv announcers just said 19

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks

im in san antonio cant see the game

Cedat Fortuna Peritis

by spear72 on Dec 17, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

can't fire him with the team he is building

We have arguably improved every year, albeit slowly

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I would definitely argue we have not improved every year.

Are we better now than when he took over? Yes.
Are we better now than in the beginning of this season? Since last season? Than we were when we had Wafer, Johnson and Thornton on the same team? Than when we had Johnson, Thornton and Douglas on the same team?

What good is all this talent if it isn’t coached and continually underachieves? We should not be pulling out a squeaker against Auburn, or Alabama, or Iona, or Georgia State. We should not be getting blown out by Ohio State or Florida.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

We only have two losses to two good teams...

at least save your pessimism until we are a few games into the ACC sched. Did you watch this team last year? We are playing better now than we were at this point last season. Last year we made it to the ACCCG for the first time. To answer your talent questions, we we are better now because we have much more depth.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

swish

3-pt play the old fashioned way 72-67 with 36 seconds to go

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought he was too far out!

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:15 PM EST reply actions  

Nice post move huh?

He’s not completely immobile :)

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

not completely. :-)

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Missed Auburn 3

offensive rebound another missed Auburn 3 – Snaer with the board and he’s fouled with 18 seconds to go.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions  

Snaer needs to work on his free throw

That’s a wierd little hop a the end – he hit the second.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions  

Alabi with the block!

But they get the rebound and pull within 4

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

derwin misses first ft, hits 2nd

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:22 PM EST reply actions  

thx cp

I cant see the game i appreciate the updates

Cedat Fortuna Peritis

by spear72 on Dec 17, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

No problem

I like doing a play by play – just wish I could type better.

by CelticPride on Dec 17, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, we pulled out a win.

Nice discussing the game with you, everyone. Bring on Ga Tech!

by seminoleballer on Dec 17, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions  

ever since the florida game, we really havent improved. not that I see.

Still a disjointed, turnover-prone offense.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Florida?

I wasn’t impressed with our performance to open the season against Jacksonville, and I’m still not impressed.

The only reason we aren’t 2-9 instead of 9-2 is because we are drastically taller than all of our opponents. We aren’t better because of coaching or execution. We’re better because we’re taller. Straight up.

And I know one could always argue it doesn’t matter how/why you’re better, just that you’re better, but that’s crap. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE REASON why we like Jimbo. Because the process is just as important as the result. For some reason that doesn’t apply to basketball. It’s ok to not develop our players as well as we should or execute as well as we could.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

you can't get rid of Hamilton even though I agree with you

1. He’s a minority. Not happening.
2. He has taken a program that was horrible for almost a decade and will probably make back to back tournaments.
3. Recruiting matters, and he brings in good players.

by Bud Elliott on Dec 17, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

We need to embrace the ugly basketball and learn to appreciate it.

Yes, our offense is bad, and yes our turnovers are ridiculous, but the defense is outstanding. This team wins games. We finished 4th in the conference last year. Better than anyone expected. You don;t do that with bad coaching. FSUn, last year you said you would give him a year to see what he could do with the talent he had and the team made it to the ACCCG and were a 5 seed in the NCAA tourney. Didn’t that exceed expectations?

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed it did

But part of me thinks of him as Ron Zook, and thinks that if we could get a serious coach in here with these curent kids, it could be a scary good team. And then if that coach is an average recruiter he could ride the wave and get slightly better players than he would otherwise be able to do.

by Bud Elliott on Dec 17, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we need to let Hamilton peak before we take that step.

This team is still showing improvement. I agree that Hamiton is a better recruiter than coach, but recruiting is even more important in basketball than football. Would I rather have Coach K, Izzo, Calipari, Self, or Williams? Absolutely, but those guys aren’t coming here. I like our chances with Hamiton for now.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is, Hamilton may have ALREADY peaked. You know, he has

been in Tally for 8 years now. Maybe hovering around 8-8 even steven in the ACC (with a couple games’ leeway either way on account of luck factors) IS his peak.

The evidence suggests thus.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with that.

Wouldn’t that mean we couldn’t attract talent that was any better than 8-8? We have, and have had, numerous players that consistent top 25/tournament teams would love to have.

Wouldn’t that also suggest that we couldn’t hire a coach any better than Hamilton? His salary is in the 25-30 range for men’s coaches. There are PLENTY of up and coming coaches that would love to make Hamilton’s $1.5M+/year.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with your 2nd comment 100%. Hamilton is 61 yrs. old, anyway.

I am not jumping on the “fire Hamilton” bandwagon (if there even is one). But I dont think it would be hard to find a firebreathing young coach to coach ACC basketball team.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on

You guys are forgetting how hard it is to get talented players to play good defense, I give him the credit for that.

Also, asking for some high-energy young guy to come in with the current talent is a fairy tale, maybe he’s the best basketball mind out there, who knows if he will be able to recruit. You gotta give Hamilton credit for the McDonald’s All-Americans and the sense and ability to bring in height. How many college coaches can you a first-hand perspective of the NBA, not many, recruits like that.

Complaining about going 8-8 in the ACC, it’s the ACC, a great year is 10-6. 9-7 usually makes the tourney, we got shafted the one year we went 9 -7, I believe it was the first time since the 70’s that the ACC had less than 5 teams in the tourney.

Hamilton at least gives us a chance to be a consistent tourney team which is what we need if we ever want to some national respect.

by vanillathrilla83 on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

come on, man! consistent tourney team? FSU has made the

tourney once in Hamilton’s 8 years, and lost that game. That’s consistency?

The only consistency Hamilton has given us, truth be told, is a consistent succession of nail-biter seasons, since we are always right on the edge of missing/making the dance.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 18, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I cant argue with that assessment. I believe I was just thinking back, and remembered

the first 3 games were blowouts (as they should have been considering the competition), then we got hammered by florida, and the bloom came off the rose for me. Ever since then, its been a struggle.

Anyway, I hear what you are saying about The Process. In the end, what are we looking at here for the season? Based on what I have seen so far, if we catch some breaks, we go 9-7 in the conference, and SNEAK into the Dance again. And if Hamilton stays, you can repeat that process in 2011, then 2012, then 2013, and so on, and so on, except a couple of those times, the breaks will go the other way and its NIT bound again.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

last year we were a 5 seed, not exactly sneaking in.

We play in the ACC. We are never going to finish better than 12-4. 10-6 for 4th place is very good. If we repeat that and make it to the second weekend of the tourney it would be huge.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

a five seed that got bounced out in the first round, though. And we both know that

is the extent of Hamilton’s Big Dance experience in all his years at FSU.

On the other hand, Billy Donovan took UF to the NIT his 2nd season, the Sweet Sixteen his 3rd, and the national championship game in his 4th.

We all know what happened a few years after that.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

UF was not the laughing stock...

That FSU was when coach Ham took over. You might have heard this before, but it is fairly common for a 5 seed to lose in the first round. You can’t judge a season based on one loss to a team that matched up well and hit a crazy amount of 3’s.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 18, 2009 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

you know, I dont want to turn this into a "bash Hamilton" thing, but once

again, let me remind you that was Hamilton’s 1st appearance in the big Dance in 8 years, and during that time, he has had (and now has) multiple NBA-level players on his squad.

In other words, I am not basing this team on one game or one season. I am looking at the entirety of Hamilton’s record. And, as others have pointed out on this very thread, there are some deficiencies that seem to repeat themselves over and over in this program. e.g.-has this team EVER not had a turnover problem?

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 18, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

no, I was pointing out that Donovan was producing results immediately, as

opposed to Hamilton. I.E.-if Hamilton was going to take this school on a deep run in the NCAA Tournament, he probably already would have done so.

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 17, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

i was talking about this year only

I have higher expectations than making it to the sweet sixteen once.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 18, 2009 3:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Despite the blowouts the first 3 games, I felt underwhelmed.

Inconsistent offense. Streaks of domination mixed with voids of scoring and a prolific amount of turnovers. In those first 3 games would you believe we only had 4 more assists than turnovers? Despite winning those 3 games by a combined 107 points…

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope, trick, I would not believe that assist/turnover stat. And you know why:

wishful thinking on my part. After making the tourney last year, I wanted to believe the program had turned the corner, so I overlooked the bad from the first 3 games, and began thinking the Dance was a foregone conclusion. As I said, the bloom came off that rose with the Florida game.

I, like you, cannot count myself a Hamilton fan anymore. I hope the season turns out different, but my guess is wins for this team are going to be like pulling teeth, and we’ll be lucky if we slide in the Dance at 9-7(ACC).

There is no way to peace; peace is the way.

by GoNolzOhio on Dec 18, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

recruiting good (taller) players is part of the process

You can not argue the coach Ham does not increase the defensive ability of FSU players. Just ask TD. FSU doesn’t play pretty basketball, but it doesn’t make the team "bad.

Before this game, we had the 6th best defensive Pomeroy Rating. (33rd overall- great for a young team looking for a leader)

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 17, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Playing great defense and awful offense doesn't make it "good", either.

I’m just no longer a Hamilton fan. I spent the last few seasons defending him on a different site and I even spent the first week or two of this season defending him on the same site. Our fundamentals as a team have never been strong under Hamilton. Despite our height we aren’t a great rebounding team. We are very turnover prone and our turnover to FIELD GOAL ratio is much too close to 1. And our offense has never had an identity under Hamilton. Difficulty dribbling the ball upcourt against a press. Difficulty INBOUNDING the ball.

We have the players to be a very good team. I don’t believe we have the coaching.

by tricknole on Dec 17, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

media accolades are often flawef,

But they at least deserve acknowledgement. You are talking about firing the reigning ACC CoY. That puts Coach in pretty good company. I am guessing you would disagree, but I believe our offense has looked more organized this year. The execution is not good, but I see it as progress. We are doing more than “get the ball to Toney”. I will try to do a fanpost this weekend to continue the discussion.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Dec 18, 2009 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

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