Ponder: An Elite Quarterback
Earlier this season, I argued that Christian Ponder had the potential to be an elite level quarterback based on his first year performance. I compared his 1'st year numbers to the 1'st year numbers of two widely accepted elite quarterbacks (Colt McCoy '06 and Sam Bradford '07). Ponder played like a warrior in the first nine games of our season. He made Seminole Nation so very proud during an otherwise dark chapter in Seminole history. His dazzling season at the healm of Jimbo Fisher's high octane offense was tragically cut short as he delivered a bone-jarring tackle (with broken ribs) to Clemson's DeAndre McDaniel and suffered a season ending injury. Ponder was considered by many to be a dark horse in the race to the Heisman. Based on data from his 2009 performance, I will prove that Christian Ponder is an elite quarterback just as deserving of the title "Best Collegiate Football Player" as the other Heisman candidates.
In this analysis, I compared Ponder's '09 performance to the performance of the 3 Heisman finalist QBs:
- Timmy Tearsbow
- Colt McCoy
- Kellen Moore
Out of curiosity, I included EJ Manuel in there as well (don't read too much into his results, as 3 observations provide little statistical confidence).
The metric I will use to gauge the QB's performance is the ESPN calculated passer rating. Below is a box plot of these 5 QB's passer ratings:
Here's a little stats 101 review (copied from my previous post) of what this box plot is showing: This box plot is a visual representation of the passer ratings these QBs posted during the 2009 season. The top of the box is the third quartile (Q3, meaning 75% of the observations are less than or equal to this value). The middle line is the median (meaning that 50% of the observations are less than or equal to this value.) The bottom of the box is the first quartile (Q1, meaning that 25% of the observations are less than or equal to this value). The whiskers extend to the upper and lower limits.
Much more inside. Continue reading!
Upper limit = Q3 + 1.5(Q3-Q1)
Lower limit = Q1 -1.5(Q3-Q1)
Ponder:
Q1: 125.03
Median: 137.05
Q3: 179.675
Whiskers to: 116.59, 201.89
Manuel:
Q1: 104.83
Median: 112.68
Q3: 173.9
Whiskers to: 104.83, 173.9
Tebow:
Q1: 128.1
Median: 166.64
Q3: 186.4
Whiskers to: 84.86, 216.5
McCoy:
Q1: 125.475
Median: 156.84
Q3: 181.17
Whiskers to: 81.82, 191.38
Moore:
Q1: 149.64
Median: 165.79
Q3: 188.12
Whiskers to: 130.59, 211.93
On the surface, it appears that Ponder can hang in there with the elite quarterbacks in the country. His median passer efficiency is slightly lower than the other guys, but his whiskers don't extend as low as Tebow or McCoy. Generally speaking, his passer efficiencies are comparable to Tebow & McCoy. Based entirley on this, it looks like Moore is the best QB in the group. If I was an expert analyst at ESPN, I'd probably call it quits here and declare "Moore the best QB in country" (maybe this is a good time to state that the views and opinions expressed by the author are his own and do not represent the views and opinions of Tomahawk Nation).
The above analysis doesn't take into account the quality of opponent and doesn't put performance into proper perspective. It's like saying a kid who got an A in algebra is as smart as a kid who got an A in calculus; both got A's in math. To put this into proper perspective, let's look at the box plot (below) of the FEI adjusted defensive efficiencies that these QBs faced throughout the season. Lower indices represent better defenses.
Ponder:
Q1: -0.4935
Median: -0.238
Q3: 0.1325
Whiskers to: -0.66, 0.507
Manuel:
Q1: -0.377
Median: -0.044
Q3: 0.019
Whiskers to: -0.377, 0.019
Tebow:
Q1: -0.43225
Median: -0.146
Q3: 0.2037
Whiskers to: -0.677, 0.43
McCoy:
Q1: -0.3535
Median: -0.0805
Q3: 0.07525
Whiskers to: -0.544, 0.186
Moore:
Q1: 0.1125
Median: 0.34
Q3: 0.487
Whiskers to: -0.368, 0.646
With the exception of Moore, all of the QBs played pretty tough defenses. Ponder's opponents had defenses with a lower median FEI defensive efficiency than any of the other QBs. Now the ESPN analyst's claim that "Moore is the best QB in the nation" is starting to look a little shaky. Moore had the best passer ratings, but he posted those ratings against cupcake teams. Ponder posted elite passer ratings against a grueling defensive schedule.
Let's dig a little deeper into this by exploring the effect that a good defense has on a QB's performance. Regression analysis can be used to quantify the effect an independent variable has on a dependent variable. In this analysis, the independent variable (predictor) is the defensive FEI. The dependent (response) variable is the passer rating. The following plot shows Ordinary Least Squares (OLS) regression equations that model passer ratings as a function of defensive efficiency. Think of it like this:
y = mx + b
ESPN Passer Rating = m*(Defensive FEI Index) + b
In the above plot, the red-square points represent individual games from Ponder's 2009 season. In each game, he played a team with a specific Def. FEI index (X-axis) and posted a particular passer rating (Y-axis). The red trend line is the regression model overlaid on the plot. The color key shows which points / trend lines correspond to which QB.
Here are the models if you are curious:
Ponder (Red):
Passer Rating = 154.3 + 29.27 * (Defensive FEI Index)
Manuel (Blue):
Passer Rating = 136.8 + 47.6 * (Defensive FEI Index)
Tebow (Black):
Passer Rating = 162.9 + 59.47 * (Defensive FEI Index)
McCoy (Green):
Passer Rating = 159.3+ 105.2 * (Defensive FEI Index)
Moore (Orange):
Passer Rating = 163.1+ 19.87 * (Defensive FEI Index)
Key Points:
- There is still a lot of variability in the data that is not explained by the models. The R-squared values for these models hover around 10-30%. This means that defensive FEI indices only explain about 10-30% of the variability in passer ratings. Therefore, these models should not be used to precisely / accurately predict passer ratings. They are meant to be used for illustrative purposes to show the general effect a good defense has on the play of a quarterback.
- Tebow and McCoy (the only two previous Heisman candidates) were the most sensitive to good defenses. They had the steepest slopes in their models. Here is numerical proof that Tebow is not invincible and is just as much if not more susceptible to good defense than Ponder.
- Moore played a bunch of cupcakes. I'm not saying he's bad, but I think to be seriously considered for the Heisman, you need to prove yourself against better defenses than he did.
- McCoy may be in for a bit of a shock when he plays Alabama. The lowest Def. FEI rank he's seen all season is -0.3535. Alabama's D has an index of -0.677 (the best in the country). If you look at his trend line, it is evident that he posted passer ratings around 80 against comparable, elite defenses this year, but again I wouldn't put too much faith in using these models for prediction purposes.
- EJ Manuel has great potential, and I believe that this experience will go a long way in his maturation. I wouldn't draw any meaninful conclusions from his blue line above due to poor statistical confidence, but it does show you how he performed relative to elite talent in the three games he played in.
- Based on Ponder's trend line, he performed the best of all of the QBs against defenses with defensive FEI indices of -0.368 or below. Let that sink in. Ponder had the best play against the most talented defenses among all of these QBs. Here is quantitative proof that Ponder is an elite level quarterback performing as well if not better than the 2009 Heisman candidates for the QB position. Congratulations Christian Ponder on a Heisman-worthy 2009 campaign!
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Great breakdown
Other than Outsiders, nobody has as much detailed statistical analysis as what you see on this site. I love that. It is the primary reason I come here every day. People who understand what “smart data” can tell you.
Cedat Fortuna Peritis
Just great stuff
Gotta rec this.
Striker: "Surely you can't be serious!" Rumack: "I am serious... and don't call me Shirley."
Nice work
Excellent job. It’s really impressive to see what the production of football players REALLY looks like once you start breaking everything down. This site is like no other. I’m an addict. :)
Fantastic job
Great analysis, i think that Ponder has a case for the Heismen, his competition is Kellen Moore and Andy Dalton.
Now about EJ Manuel he has not worked with the first team offense, Spring camp is important for a young QB if he will be a starter, and got involved with the first team late in the year, not enough time to develope, he is still learning how to be a pocket passer so we will see if he was a bust or worth his 5 stars as a high school senior
Manuel will be good in time
He was a 4* though in the end. The 5* was based off a camp mostly.
by Bud Elliott on Dec 17, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
oh did not know that
im just remembering the way Rivals scouted him but thanks
great job!
my bwain hurts now….math scares me, im glad u summerized each section
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
I remember the snickering
When I mentioned that Ponder would prove to be a more talented quarterback than Bradford and McCoy.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by the way Doc
good luck on your new job at Marshall. Good luck with the thundering herd.
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
It is.
The software that I used allows me to do this by highlighting a point of interest with my cursor. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to post a picture that has this functionality.
Here are Ponder’s numbers in the format:
Opponent Ponder Def FEI Passer Rating
Miami -0.369 129.99
Jacksonville State * 140.62
BYU 0.041 169.15
USF -0.107 128.64
Boston College -0.660 137.05
Georgia Tech 0.507 201.82
North Carolina -0.529 190.20
NC State 0.163 121.42
Clemson -0.387 116.59
Tebow
Charleston Southern * 193.94
Troy 0.348 200.45
Tennessee -0.370 114.00
Kentucky -0.096 169.52
LSU -0.453 147.23
Arkansas -0.147 160.46
Miss. State 0.020 84.86
Georgia -0.268 168.46
Vanderbilt -0.145 178.86
South Carolina -0.454 136.06
Florida Int’l 0.430 166.64
Florida State 0.265 216.50
Alabama -0.677 120.14
McCoy
La.-Monroe 0.179 180.10
Wyoming 0.107 140.87
Texas-Tech -0.208 119.17
Texas-El Paso * 171.21
Colorado -0.121 142.46
Oklahoma -0.544 84.53
Missouri -0.020 182.24
OK State -0.402 160.31
UCF -0.080 183.52
Baylor -0.081 131.78
Kansas -0.030 191.38
Texas A&M 0.186 156.84
Nebraska -0.472 81.82
Moore
Oregon -0.368 133.96
Miami (OH) 0.140 211.95
Fresno State 0.450 165.79
Bowling Green 0.117 211.18
UC Davis * 173.68
Tulsa 0.111 148.78
Hawaii 0.500 177.44
San Jose State 0.365 164.40
Louisiana Tech -0.016 160.09
Idaho 0.646 198.80
Utah State 0.522 130.59
Nevada 0.437 168.20
New Mexico State 0.315 150.50
Very Nice Aussierat!
I’m using Mini-Tab. Does Excel have that function built in or do you have SigmaXL?
I just used a scatterplot graph.
Unfortunately I have the old version of office at home which has less functionality. I had to play with the scatterplot data to get it to work. Each data point above is a separate series. Hence graphing only Ponder and not all the QBs.
Your article was a success, for two main reasons
anytime you find legit numbers to back up the fact that Ponder is a stud, and that Tebow is overrated…man that is just beautiful.
AMEN!
Although, CP7 has never performed a circumcision.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Dec 18, 2009 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
or died for the sins of mankind, or turned water into wine, or brought the dead to life, or....
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
Or cry over getting humiliated on national television (multiple times), or kiss a dude on national television, or have a dude rub his head WHILE crying on national television.
no one beieves me when i talk about tebow and joiners on camera love fest....
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
when i mention tebow kising his teammates to gator fans
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
Do they not watch their own games? I don't get it.
It’s not like it isn’t on youtube for the world to see.
What a bunch of losers...
What a terrible fan base. Even if my team some how managed to royaly suck as bad as yours, I still wouldnt sit around and cry about the players on the rivals team to make myself feel better.
Just reading the few comments in here, its pethetic. I hate seeing such pethetic’ness in my society. I dont even care that much if someone doesnt think the Gators are that good. I dont care if people think Tim Tebow is over rated or whatever. Sure i’ll have a arguement over it, but deep down I really dont care. But to see people want another person to be humiliated for no real reason makes me sick. You people act as if Tim Tebow has done something personally harmfull to you. That you feel you must expose him and let everyone know that hes not that great of a person like everyone thinks. To put it plain and simple you get joy out of others misery.
Please ban me from this site. I am sorry I even came here in the first place. I was actually looking for some Warrick Dunn news. Instead I found a bunch of pethetic losers. Dont worry I wont be back either way.
"Why does bottled water have an expiration date?"
And for the decent people in here, that dont get off on others misery I apologise for the rant and didnt intend on offending you.
"Why does bottled water have an expiration date?"
Impressive but....
The Heisman trophy purports to name college football’s best player. However, over the last several years, it is clear that you need to consistently"lead your team to victories" to be a serious contender. Thus, one of the criterion has become whether the player’s team is contending for a NC. So, the Heisman now has become a question of who is the best player on the best team in the nation. Clearly, Ponder is a great QB. He did lead us to a number of gutsy victories this year, but the team was average at best. No player on a 6-loss team would ever get legit consideration given the current format. Great statistical analysis though, and I think it does support the conclusion that Ponder is an elite level QB. Just not “deserving” of the Heisman the way it is decided now.
Agreed.
I think your point is becoming more widely accepted among CFB enthusiasts / analysists. The Heisman is no longer an award for the “most outstanding collegiate football player” but rather an award for the “most outstanding collegiate football player on the #1 or #2 ranked team.”
I am not presenting this as an argument that Ponder should have won the Heisman. I am arguing that he performed as well as the Heisman candidates and equally deserves the title “best collegiate football player.”
Unless your name is Tim Tebow and you play for a 3 loss team in the Gators
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Ha....
And then didnt they get beat by a Michigan team that lost to App State? Why? ESPN and the heisman voters all over Tebow is like watching Jen Sterger dating a homeless guy on Tennessee street.
If she didn't have work done would anyone care about her?
And honestly, I was shocked how many girls had fake boobs at FSU. I’m NOT complaining, although I prefer a good natural pair.
All those fake boobs and not a strip club to put 'em in.
It’s like a day without sunshine or a child without laughter.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
just imagine the "talent" that could be had at a tallahasse strip club
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
Part of me is glad they don't have them up there.
Namely, the part that had to call my folks for money every time I was broke.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
lol i have a feeling i know where everyone would be when financial aid came in
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
The girls still flaunted their girls like mad, though.
But yes, a strip club on the corner of Ocala and Tennessee where that Albertson’s recently went out of business would make a killing.
wow thats a great idea...between there and Chubbys, there would be about 10 shootings a week
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
HA, totally forgot about Chubby's.
I did have the thought, “This will put AJ’s out of business,” though. And you know that H2O Lounge at the corner of White and Tennessee? There was a driveby there once. I wound up driving past it apparently just minutes after it happened. Literally drove past 30 police cars on my way to Bellevue.
goodtimes! that place was as ghetto as it gets
if you could open a strip club just over the tally city lines youd make a killing….i think its a city law, but it might be a county law
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 18, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Probably city law.
Zewditu Mart is just on the other side of the traintracks west of town on Tennessee. If you can sell alcohol 24/7, you better be allowed to display topless women for perusal. But then again, if it were legal in Leon County, I’m sure it’d be done by now.
ooohhhh believe me i know about the magical Zewditu Mart
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
Nice stats.
And I’m glad you explained them. I get the gist but stats like those just aren’t my strongsuit. Any graphs portraying our defense in a positive light in the works? lol
the method for finding “passer ratings” is significant and not defined in the article. QB stats are heavily affected by time allowed in the pocket, which is a function of the OLine, and by quality of receiver, which is obviously a function of the receivers.
Im not trying to nitpick, because Im not even sure where to start developing a statistic accurately describing QB play. Just trying to be thorough.
Just like Harvin running routes for Tebow, I think Texas’ receivers do an excellent job stretching the field, which is why Mccoy has such an impressive completion percentage. Ponder doesn’t have an upperclassman receiver such as Shipley or Harvin/Hernandez he can trust to get open over and over.
With regards to the Heisman, I don’t think any of the QBs involved in the talk played as well as Ingram or Gerhart. Ponder deserves to be in the discussion for top QB, but shouldn’t win it, as he missed a quarter of the season.
If your argument is that Ponder is as good or better than these top CFB QBs during their development, I would certainly agree. I think he will be a Heisman contender next year.
I agree that Passer Rating is not a perfect metric for assessing a QB's performance.
As you mentioned, there are a lot of factors that can influence this metric that are outside the QB’s hands. However, I do believe that it is a reasonable metric for the purposes this article serves.
"as he delivered a bone-jarring tackle"
Riiiiiiiiight…
Timmy Tearsbow
good one losers, but the Mighty Tearsbow sure did make your team look like a bunch of pansies.
Tim Tebow 4-0 against FSU.
"Why does bottled water have an expiration date?"
It's 3-0 Actually
and now that Urban Decay is starting to take hold in Gunsville, the whole country will be laughing at you when you go from No. 1 in the nation to No. 3 in Florida and our quarterback is the one that’s on the Heisman Watch (and he’ll actually deserve it). Alabama won’t be seeing you again, but we’ll be the ones making Brantley cry.
It was long ago and it's far away but it was so much better than it is today--Meatloaf
by CantwaitforJimbo on Dec 19, 2009 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
No its 4-0
no fuzzy math please. Tim Tebow is 4-0 against FSU. I didnt say as a starter smart guy.
BTW FSU isnt even the No. 3 team in the state of FL. Remember you lost to UF,MIA,USF. I dont know who told you we will struggle next year, but whatever I’ll go with it. If people will be laughing at us for being No. 3, How do you think FSU looks right now being the No. 4 best team in the state. Actually I think UCF might want to argue with me on that one, considering you almost lost to Jacksonville State.
Good Luck though with the whole being good next year.
"Why does bottled water have an expiration date?"
Get off your high horse
and stop acting like you’re better than everyone else. typical ‘turd fan. GOD it pisses me off so much. Welcome to college football jerk. When the gators and seminoles stop hating each other and stop making fun of each other’s teams let me know. you pompous pr*ck.
I almost said as much.
But if you read above he said he wasn’t coming back so I decided not to comment. I guess he liked us so much he changed his mind.
Hook:
How did you end up on a “Ponder: An Elite Quarterback” thread when you were looking for information on Warrick Dunn? Or are you just trolling? I know. Your team has had a nice successful run while our program was on the decline. Thanks for coming over and reminding us. I’ll be sure to drop by your page “looking for info on Wuerffel” next time we are on top.
How do you attempt to extrapolate the arguments of a few to the arguments of an entire fanbase? That’s an argumentative fallacy called hasty generalization.
How can you expect us not to get excited and make fun of the silly antics, including kissing, crying, etc. of your superstar quarterback who has been a thorn in our side the last three years? Tebow is a great guy and all but he’s been beating us and celebrating like a kid on Christmas while doing it for the past three years, against a defense that his offense was designed to destroy. This is college football and you are our biggest rival.
Good thing no one in your fanbase ever made statements like “Free Shoes University”, “Criminoles”, etc. because then we’d be able to say what a low-life bunch of losers you are (as a part of that fanbase) for making fun of our players. Look at your arguments. They are weak.
What is your point
There are quite a few guys that are 4-0 against FSU
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Why do Gator fans refuse to accept that fact that his freshman year TIM TEBOW WAS THE BACKUP!
Chris Leak was the starting QB on Tebow’s supposed 1st National Championship team. Te-bag was basically a glorified RB out of a predecessor to the Wildcat, he only came in on short yardage situations. It’s a fact that ESPN also likes to overlook..
I'm not done yet
When you guys are winning you are so arrogant and annoying with your little ‘Turd quips. “Geaux Gators.” "It’s great to be a Florida Gator." Then you lose a game and you all turn into the sorest losers ever. That’s ALL YOU ARE. A bunch of sore losers. Especially the “Mighty Tearsbow.” I got news for you HE’S the one looking like a damn pansy on natinal TV having loving, tender moments with coaches and players. AND CRYING like a little b*tch like the sore LOSER he is on NATIONAL TV. Can’t wait to see him suck royal @$$ in the pros. IF he even gets drafted. You don’t want any fuzzy math? GO READ MY ARTICLE. Nothing fuzzy about that, and I think you’ll see your beloved QB is nothing special. Again just being SORE about the fact that Ponder > Tebow. The tide is turning my friend. Can you feel it? The rebirth of the G&G is coming and I can’t wait to see you SORE LOSERS CRY ABOUT IT.
Good luck to you too Hook!

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
How is Herb's ticker doing?

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!


































