Could Florida State Really Land Alabama's Kirby Smart as its next Defensive Coordinator?
by Bud Elliott on Dec 2, 2009 12:51 AM EST
in FSU Football
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PrintWith Bobby Bowden deciding to retire, Jimbo Fisher must select Florida State's next defensive coordinator and defensive staff. At least 3 defensive assistant coaches will not be back for Florida State (Mickey Andrews- retiring, Chuck Amato- not retained, and Jody Allen- not retained). Former Auburn quarterback Daymeune Craig is considered a lock for a position on the offensive coaching staff (expected to replace Dexter Carter), and was even reported to have been at the Maryland game two weeks ago. We profiled Craig on October 15th in the article linked below.
You'll remember that Tomahawk Nation was the first to conduct an exhaustive defensive coordinator search, all the way back in the middle of October. If you weren't around back then, you should read the search piece. Kirby Smart was the top choice back then in our mind and due to his age, contacts, coaching acumen, and recruiting ability, he continues to be the top candidate available.
Due to the incredible success of their respective NFL teams, Karl Dunbar (Vikings) and Travis Jones (Saints) are less likely than they maybe once were. Both the Vikings and Saints will likely be playing deep into January. Florida State needs to name a defensive coordinator relatively soon and the NFL schedule of those two just does not mesh with FSU's needs. This is especially true of Dunbar, who unlike Jones, is not an assistant defensive line coach but the defensive line coach.
As for Sunseri, I've seen nothing to say he is out of the running other than a rumor that he plans to move his family to Tuscaloosa from Charlotte. He is still a guy who has a lot of experience under some very highly regarded coaches and would do a fine job. He's not quite the recruiter that Smart is, however, he is pretty good himself.
If Hudson is the guy, FSU fans should know very quickly because unlike the 'Bama boys, he is not coaching in a game to put his team in the National Championship game. His East Carolina squad, however, is playing for the Conference USA championship and it is unknown whether he would leave them prematurely to come to FSU if he is in fact the choice.
Then in early November (the 5th to be exact), we had an article calling Bobby Bowden's bluff when he tried to assert that it would be him and not Fisher who would select the next defensive coordinator. Also in that article, I wrote a few thoughts on why Kirby Smart might decide to come back to Florida State to be with his friend, Jimbo Fisher. I am not saying this will happen but rather that there are legitimate reasons why Smart would want to come to Florida State. Many have completely dismissed Smart as a candidate, so here is a re-print of that article in relevant part:
I personally believe the signs point to Alabama's Kirby Smart. Why Smart?
- More money at FSU (5 or 600K)
- Connections to Tallahassee and his family is nearby (Smart's parents live in South Georgia, just a stone's throw from Tallahassee).
- Smart coached at Florida State as a grad assistant and loved it, reportedly.
- Chance to mold the defense in his own image-- total autonomy and schematic freedom. And with that autonomy, the chance to get credit for doing so.
- Get credit for turning around one of the bottom 30 defenses in the country. No matter what, Bama's defense will always be Saban's.
- Not having to work for Nick Saban (Guys typically want to work for Saban only long enough to learn all he has to teach, then they get out. He's terrible to work for and often treats his guys like crap. Also, families of Saban's coaches typically don't enjoy it.) As a head coach, Fisher could be slightly less insane than Saban and still be effective.
- Quicker path to a head coaching job. Saban has not done a good job of promoting his assistants for head coaching positions. In fact, no coach has gone directly from a coordinator spot under Saban to a head coaching job. Smart would have to know that if he turns FSU's defense around (likely, given the current cluster that is the defensive staff and the surprisingly high level of talent), he'd be one of the hottest commodities in the country, especially given that he learned from two organizational masters.
- Other ties I won't delve into.
No matter who it is, the next DC will be of the Saban defensive mold (read that). There isn't a defensive system that is close when it comes to the college game and Fisher has tremendous respect and admiration for Saban's system.
So I predict that there will be big changes in less than a month, and those changes will be known to the public. If I had to say it right now, I'd say Kirby Smart in, Bobby Bowden out.
That was November 5th. I think my timetable on the defensive coordinator could be off by a few days but would still expect an announcement at least a week before Christmas to make sure the desperately needed defensive recruits will know who their coach will be. Due to unbelievably poor defensive recruiting in 2006, 2007, and 2007, Florida State has almost zero defensive depth. As many as 16 recruits in this class could be on the defensive side.
The Seminoles' incoming recruiting class is ranked No. 31 by Scout.com and No. 37 by Rivals.com and does not include any five-star players.
Just three of Rivals.com's top 60 players in the state, including Johnson, are committed to FSU. Florida has seven of the top 29 and Miami has pledges from four of the top 44.
While other experts have wavered and waffled, I have not, because I haven't heard anything new on Smart to strengthen or weaken his case.
I have also heard that Saban and Jimbo Fisher share an agent. That adds additional intrigue to this story. It is unknown who represents Kirby Smart.
I do think I should clarify the money issue. 'Bama could pay more money than Florida State, but the question is would they pay more money than Florida State. This ties in with the "it's Saban's defense" issue. Does Saban think Smart is worth what FSU might be willing to pay, or does he think he could just get another protege?" If Florida State offered something like $800K, would Bama match the offer? If Saban taught Smart he might think he could easily get someone else to do a similar job, and because of his defensive prowess, he is probably right.
I asked Todd of our sister site, RollBamaRoll.com about this and here was his response:
Not a bad analysis...and I could definitely see it happening, but I also wouldn't be shocked at all if Smart stays with Saban until he gets a HC offer. The title shuffling before last season was a move to keep Smart happy and on the staff, so obviously Saban values having him running the defense.
Can you explain the title shuffling?
...while he and [current Clemson DC Kevin] Steele were still there they shuffled titles around (Steele had some crazy title like Executive Head Coach-Defense while Smart was the Defensive Coordinator, or something like that). They were "co-DCs" in name, though each still pretty much had the same function as before (Steele LBs and Smart DBs). But Saban gave Smart a fancier title and more money ($370K) to keep him.
The timetable on this is very interesting. If Smart were to come to Florida State, would he coach in the national championship game? Alabama fans were concerned last year about co-DC Steele (mentioned above) being preoccupied with the Clemson job before the Tide lost the Sugar Bowl to Utah. If Smart did decide to join his friend in Tallahassee, would Bama want him coaching in a possible national championship game? Florida State fans are all too familiar with a distracted coordinator coaching in a national championship game-- current Georgia Coach Mark Richt had accepted the UGA position while he was still Florida State's offensive coordinator and despite having the Heisman Trophy Winner and a bevvy of other All-Americans on offense, his unit shockingly managed only two points in a 13-2 loss to Oklahoma in 2000. The aforementioned Sunseri could capably run Bama's defense should Smart decide to leave before the MNC game. The reverse is also obviously true if the choice were Sunseri, as Smart is already the DC.
Additionally, if this does happen, seeing that Saban and Fisher are friends, Saban would probably require Smart not to poach any of Alabama's current commitments.
As I said, nothing official about Smart has come from FSU or Alabama and with a huge game looming against UF, you can bet it will stay that way. This should be very interesting in the next week to 10 days.
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Richt did bad as a coach in the title game for the Noles
but I must say Dan Mullins did a good enough job for Florida last year…not exactly a brilliant job, but good enough (of course Meyers might have called all the plays for all I know).
Bo Pelini did a good job for LSU that year they won the title, even though he had already been tabbed to take over at Nebraska…sorry to nit pick, I know its not the main topic of the article lol
Best thing is
Whoever we bring in has to be better by default. No way our defense is worse with some actual coaching. Regardless, it will be exciting to see who we actually get.
A question I have
everyone rips on Jody Allen for being a defensive ends coach who never even played the position. How come quarterbacks get turned into running backs coaches? I know they want strong recruiters, but is this to say the running back position is so natural it needs no real coaching (I noticed Texas did the same thing).
RB coach is the least important coach
and teams often just stash their star recruiter there.
Trickett has coached our backs since the BC game.
sorry
When you can’t pass the recruiting test I don’t know if success is a realistic outcome.
I'm still amazed at his failing that.
I passed it first try using simple common sense.
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 2, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
How does that work, anyways?
Did he get to retake it? Are you only allowed so many tries? Did he eventually pass?
I was referring to him this being his first coaching experience
He never should have been offered this position
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
That was one of Dexter's best attributes IMO
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
He got fired
Look everybody knows that Bobby Bowden was fired. He didn’t resign or retire. Its just that simple, because if he retired the administration would have been at the press conference not two players. You guys like to speak the truth and keep it real so I think you should say he got fired.
There was a firefight!!!!
Turn the page brotha
This is the new era stuff man, we’re gonna have all month to talk about how great Bowden was/ is, and he is, but we need a defense, like yesterday
by vanillathrilla83 on Dec 2, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, regardless what you feel happened with Bowden...
There is another place to put that. Go to a Bowden thread. Un put some work into this and the topic is the next DC. Comment on that.
Also, is it true about Smart not getting along with Richt?
I heard during his brief stint coaching on UGA’s staff he did not get along with Richt and that is why he left. Of course the job he got with Saban was a better gig so I did not know if that stuff about him and Richt not getting along were true. If not should we be worried UGA will fight to get him?
Not exactly
The disagreement was over his position. Smart was the RBs coach at UGA and wanted to coach defense, hence the reason he left for the Dolphins. The defensive staff at that point was pretty settled in. Willie Martinez the DC was in charge of the secondary (Smart’s specialty) and Rodney Garner was Georgia’s head recruiter and asst. defensive coordinator. There wasn’t a lot of room for him on the defensive side of the ball, so he bolted.
Georgia has Smart at the tippy-top of their list, and would love to bring him back to the old alma mater. He played DB at Georgia and his wife played basketball there. He was on the Dawgs at the same time as OC Mike Bobo, so that could have an impact as well.
Trickett to Marshall?
NoleInsider says he’s a serious candidate.
Does he even want to be a head coach?
He’ll be 62 by the time the next season starts. And that’s sort’ve old to get into the head coaching business (1999 at Glenville State aside).
exactly tricknole
Trickett starting a HC career (at Marshall no less) basically rebuilding a really bad program from the ground up is not really a task I see a 62 year old very eager to take on.
At the same time, If he’s interviewing he must be trying to test the waters. I hope he stays here. Seriously.
Maybe he wants a free trip back home.
Although I’m sure he could afford the couple hundred bucks. I don’t see him leaving. His one son will be on the team next year. An older son of his was some sort of assistant/student coach at FSU this year. And it’s Marshall…
This hire will make or break Fisher's success as HC,
his career, and his future plans.
He’d better not mess it up and hire a yeoman coach.
with that in mind, how big of factor is Randy Spetman in this process?
I’m not familiar with the candidate search/salary offering/hiring process. I think it’s safe to say this jury is out on Spetman, especially if the process involves some big boy brass balls wheelin’ and dealin’.
by The K-Man on Dec 2, 2009 4:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think I MIGHT like Spetman
Hear me out:
I think when he took the job TK told him the football program was his baby. He told Spetman that he wouldn’t make any decisions there. BUT, there have been other coaching hires at FSU since Spetman has been around, the women’s volleyball coach and the softball coach. In just his 2nd year, Poole (volleyball), has us as the #3 OVERALL seed in the NCAAT and our highest ranking in the volleyball polls in school history. In her first season as softball coach, Alameda took us to Regionals in the NCAAT. This was with a team that most expected NOT to make postseason play. We’ll see how she does in her 2nd full year this spring.
My point is, in 2 chances, I think Spetman is 2 for 2. So, maybe a new President keeps him around. Maybe a new President just wants to clean house of the old Wetherell regime (and rightfully so, TK was f’ing pathetic). And I don’t think Spetman has any say in the football decisions. All they’ll ask him for is a signature or something. It is entirely Fisher’s search.
We need an AD to make football decisions
With TK gone the hope is that a new president will be hands off when it comes to football operations. Spetman OUT, someone else IN.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I have given Spetman the benefit of the doubt for his tenure
up until the way FSU handled the Bowden announcement. Him essentially running away from the media and sticking Ponder and Watson out there is ridiculous.
I don’t believe Spetman is the answer. I am not saying he is a bad AD by any means, but I think FSU needs to explore other options soon.
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Chuck is unlikely to land a D1 head coaching job unless
a program is very desperate and he will accept a below market rate.
Yea, you shouldn't be upset fsw...
You would get to see his great stylish ways every day!
I heard Jimbo offered Chuck a chance to stay on the coaching staff ...
… but only if he’d let him cop a feel.
by ScalpEM_TX on Dec 2, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Smart would be a steal
for sure. I think no one really has an idea or a timetable for the DC hire though. I’m with you though in that it will come soon aka before Jan. I would love to get Smart though. He’s young, energetic, and can recruit like hell.
I really hope we land Smart
He seems like the best option for us. I’m really excited to see what someone can do with this defense. Assuming our offense doesn’t get any worse, if we can just get a decent defense, Jimbo could have 10 wins in his first year as HC.
A couple questions
1. With Smart coming in, would we be switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4? Or would he be able to scheme with a 4-3?
2. If we switch to the 3-4, how is that going to affect the kids we have now? We have no depth now and a scheme change could lead to a mass exodus in transfers or marginalizing players who don’t fit.
Associate Editor of Big Cat Country the #1 Jacksonville Jaguar site on the net
Big Cat Country Radio, Every Wednesday Night at 10 PM EST
by Jonathan Loesche on Dec 2, 2009 6:53 AM EST reply actions
More options
You need a big NT that can control both A gaps. I think that our DT’s will be good fits at DE in a 3-4.
Also, you need big outside LB’s. What I like about a 3-4 is that you can bring the 4th pass rusher from any of the LB’s, either safety or corners. Watch Alabama bring their safeties and corners. Picture Greg Reid coming on a blitz.
Also, 3-4 outside LB’s are easier to find rather then stud DE’s.
I know how a 3-4 works
Just saying it’s hard to transition initially from a 4-3 to a 3-4
Where is a NT on this team or would we be counting on a freshmen?
A 3-4 OLB can be tricky, especially if were counting on switching around a 4-3 DE
Associate Editor of Big Cat Country the #1 Jacksonville Jaguar site on the net
Big Cat Country Radio, Every Wednesday Night at 10 PM EST
by Jonathan Loesche on Dec 2, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
As long as Deas qualifys thats our NT if we were to switch....
But as it has been said in other articles on this site (too lazy to go look for them) Fisher has expressed that his new DC will have to be able to run multiple fronts depending on opponents and situations.
I think he would come in with a multiple package.
So it doesn’t overwhelm the players too much. We could run a base 3-4 but still have a lot of 4-3. IMO it would be the best way to transition untill we have another recruiting class to learn the scheme.
Deas is not a NT in a 3-4, he is a SDE....
That job would goto McCray most likely, in that 3-4 package…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Arenas leads Bama in TFLs
Reid is a young Arenas…right down to the PR prowess
First,
even Bama doesn’t run a 3-4 exclusively. It’ll be a multiple front defense with some 3-4.
And I think we’d move a few of our DE’s to OLB, especially Jenkins and Stevens. Saban has a ton of jacks who play hand down and 2-point.
I expect 10 transfers total no matter the coordinator.
Options
That’s why I like it. You don’t have to run it exclusively and you have tons of options.
You really think that 10 guys will transfer?
And some bad attitudes and upperclassmen who Fisher won't use
This is SEC football. Expect 5 transfers per year. No reason to hold onto failures more than 2-3 years.
Im viewing that as a plus though.
I think we’ve needed to force some guys to transfer so we could have scholarships for people who want to play defense and hit.
Absolutely
Saban cuts 5-7 kids every year.
This isn’t college football, it’s minor league football. We’re just very behind the times.
Got you now...thought you were talking all defensive transfers due to the new DC
this will be across the board. People that Bobby wouldn’t let us cut?
He was just to nice
to cut someone because he also wanted to help them in life and not just football. Thats not a bad thing, but nowadays, and especially with the situtaion we are in, the coaches need not to worry about the players personal upbringing, but their skill level and determination.
Cutting them is actually helping them more than keeping them on. They aren’t going to play here so why stay? Chances are they aren’t going to take advantage of their scholly either. It’s helpful in the same way you don’t feed wild animals. Short run it sucks for them but if they have any sort of intelligence it’ll work out in the long run.
I'm trying to think of 10 that don't play much (or at all)
that aren’t true freshman and here’s what I could think of:
Wade
Commack
Little
Jones
Jackson
Imeokparia
Gresham
Ganguzza
Sanderson
Harris
Some haven’t played because of injuries, so I’m not sure where that would factor in.
Gresham is already done.
Couldn’t overcome injuries, they are letting him stay on scholarship to finish out but I don’t think that counts against the total scholly numbers.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
What happened to Avis Commack this year?
All the pre-season hype about his speed and body control going up for a catch?
is that Ty Jones on the list?
I would take Commack off that list and add AJ Alexander as a possibility
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Plus some fines
and consequential damages
"as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."
The next few weeks will be very interesting.
Any idea who the assistants might be under Smart or Sunseri? I know you profiled some possible ones in the linked article but I didn’t know if that had changed at all.
Just to nitpick: I don’t believe FSU’s offense scored any points in the ‘00 game. I’m pretty sure the safety came from the defense.
If I remember right OU had to punt out of it's endzone and took the safety rather than risking it being blocked
Associate Editor of Big Cat Country the #1 Jacksonville Jaguar site on the net
Big Cat Country Radio, Every Wednesday Night at 10 PM EST
by Jonathan Loesche on Dec 2, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
Love M.A., but cant wait to see our DB's coached by someone else.
Never thought they were coached up that well….FSU just out-athleted (sp?) everybody else. Am I wrong?
I think Mickey was a very good DB coach for a while
but we just rarely played zone. Often guys in zone get big breaks on the ball and it looks that way
When MA ran his defenses during the dynasty years
we didn’t need to run zone because we got guys with unbelievable athletic ability that could play man. The only problem is he didnt swith the scheme when our DBs abilities declined.
Plus everyone was running a prostyle offense
As opposed to a spread. The spread killed Mickey’s Man D more than the decline in the ability of our DBs (though that probably also played a part).
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 2, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
it also helped out that most teams ran a pro-style offence where they ran pro-I
Then you have 2 CB on the island and at least 1 deep SS to help out. Now with the Spread you cant stack the box like the good old days.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
wow I said the same thing As Mr Tito and didnt know it should read before I type
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Our DBs today would look better
if we had the pressure from back then. There was a big bomb passed on FSU in the 99 title game. There could have been more big plays, even on the secondary we had back then if there was no pressure up front. I keep saying, it is not all scheme. Andrews tried running zone a few times this year and it did not matter. All schemes rely on getting a push up front. Stuffing runs to make take away short passing options and and pressuruing QBs so they have little time to throw.
Good point.
Man is a lot easier to run if you have a good pass rush, but the spread can still exploit its weaknesses. But FSU basically had this going on:
No pass rush + average DBs + playing against the spread = Terrible Defense.
Still on that Smart Train!!!!
See my sig, nothing’s changed… still holding out hope!
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
question and comment
Seems to me Smart is worth 800K- maybe this is doable since we haven’t paid BB an additional 2.5M bonus as orignally discussed.
Also, what factor does this weeks game have on Smart’s decision (assuming he’s been offered by JF)? If Bama loses to a strong UF offensive showing, is Saban more inclined to just let him go?
I am not sure UF's performance independent of w/l will factor
but if Bama lost, that would be better IMO
That makes it only *slightly* harder
to pull for Alabama. I know a UF win might be a win for us too, but I can’t keep from hoping that Timmay and Oscar get pounded.
he's no Jeffy.
Coley is a bright and energetic young man who’s run an offense before. Other teams will not out work him, and he’s willing to learn what’s needed. Jimbo hand picked him for the OC role, they work well together, and that’s good enough for me.
by PeachTreeNole on Dec 2, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
How much do you think Coley would make?
If we were to throw $500K+ at someone like Smart for DC, what would Coley command I wonder? Not sure how much he’s making now.
Coley making 550K as OC?
I think that’s a little much. And no way would I pay Smart 800K. That’s absurd. The article linked below says he’s currently making 325K at Bama, why over double that?
400K for Coley
500K for Smart
I’d be fine with something like that. Coley’s probably only making 200K or so right now?
I'd pay Smart 800K easy
If he is our DC, we land stellar recruits the next two years. The guy is scary good.
>>---l>
Muschamp is HCIW at Texas, for what it's worth
I think they gave him a big raise in hopes of keeping him around when Mack retires, though that’ll be awhile.
gotta pay
if you wanna win. isn’t very complex. Ask the Bama people about that. They finally figured it out.
FIU...
Florida International.
Ole Ole Ole Ole FIU! FIU! Ole Ole Ole Ole FIU! FIU!
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
And his offense wasn't anything special was it?
Granted it’s FIU, but the raw numbers weren’t that much better, were they? Maybe they were.
Ok I have a crazy idea
what is Bama’s biggest threat year in and out. UF. What would be FSU’s biggest threat to get to a NC game? UF. I know the noles still had to win the ACC but that last game vs the gators is still big. Would Saben send Smart to FSU because it could help him get over on UF. FSU and Bama dont play each other like that. bu they do play UF. If bama and FSU (Saben and JF) were to work together they could in a way cut into the recrutis UF gets and also with both playing them could help both FSU and Bama get better Bowls and Pos into a NC more often. Does this seem way to far fetch.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I don't see Saban "sending" Smart anywhere.
If Smart comes to FSU, Saban may claim some advantage to having a strong FSU team, but even so, FSU will be just another viable option for some of Alabama’s recruits.
Nice idea
I think the idea is valid in some way but Saban is a selfish SOB (see Miami Dolphins). Saban would want to keep Smart due to his recruiting ties not because he is a DC.
Go Noles!!
Yes hes a SOB but Saben can get anyone he wants to be his next DC because hes Sabe
As said before People want to come and learn from him. He can get another top DC that can recruit thats not going to be a problem. What Im saying is that if Saben helps FSU get a good DC that can help take recruits from UF and that will help out Saben more than Smart staying and fighting it on the field. UF is getting what 7 5* kids this year alone. If Smart could come and get some of those 5* UF would be getting then That takes the talent lvl down at UF making them easyer to beat. That helps out FSU and Bama at the same time. At the same time it would help out not just with UF but agenst UGA and LSU because the more kids that go to FSU (in the ACC) means less kids going to SEC schools like LSU, UGA, and UF. Bama is not worried about getting kids that FSU go after because for the most part our offense is so much diferant and Def we have FL and they have Bama.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Yes, since FSU and BAMA are in different conf...it would be a strategic alliance
Where the only reallconflict would come in some recruiting battles and in bowl games. It would be very smart for Bama and FSU to “team up” in such a fashion.
What I see out of this is that If Saben needs a fast DB from Fl and FSU dont need him that bad
JF could send help out Saben and If FSU need someone in Bama that Bama is stacked at vice versa. Dont know if that would realy happen but wishfull thinking.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Des,
It’s S-a-b-a-n…
Sorry to nitpick, but that’s driving me absolutely crazy
Its ok I understand But be worned my spelling is very bad.
So you might need a spelling for dummies book to desipher it. But thanks for letting me know.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Now you are thinking Desman
No doubt Fisher and Saban will be colluding on how to bring down the lizards!
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
Why do I feel like FSUn knows more about this situation
Than he’s letting on? I won’t be surprised if our DC is announced in the next week to 10 days and Smart is our man. FSUn would then type up another fine piece stating that it was first reported here last week at TN.com of the reasons why he felt FSU could possibly land Smart as our next DC. He’s done it before and I feel pretty confident that this may be the case.
The guys here at TN are very reliable and something tells me that Smart may be our next DC. :)
by CSI Nole on Dec 2, 2009 9:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
You make a great point.
Are you the FSU insider that calls the WFTL in Miami sports station also? FSUn you are on my radar buddy! :)
Go Noles!!
Really hope so.
This move is every bit as crucial as Fisher’s hiring was, perhaps moreso, because we have less margin for error.
It’s all about the battle for the State of Florida, isn’t it? With UF’s upcoming personnel losses (players and coaches), we have a legitimate chance to beat them next year, which completely changes the face of recruiting in this state — in the light of our shiny new defense and its coordinator. The program will officially have been “righted” in the eyes of the world, and we could very well take that credibility to build an equal stock of talent with them by 2012.
I hope your right
IMO he is the best chance Jimbo has to turn our program around in time for him to keep his job. I don’t see our booster’s having much patience after the Lost Decade. Let’s all hope JF can handle being a head coach as well as he has handled being an offensive coordinator.
The important thing to get from this article...
is that no matter who we are after for DC, Bama HAS to beat UF this weekend. ROLL TIDE (still think saban suck’s [as a person, not a coach] but the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc…) I don’t think I will ever root harder for bama than I will be this weekend. I don’t know, I guess if they do go to the title game it could hurt our chances with Smart because of the time delay. At this point, I hate the gators so much I’m willing to risk it.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I am willing to risk a recruit to see the turds get crushed. ROLL TIDE ROLL
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
As a corollary, are Kirby or Sal more likely to leave if they lose and are playing in another BCS game rather than the NC?
I’d have to imagine they’d feel less of an obligation to stay on and coach if they’re in the Sugar Bowl rather than playing for a national title.
Roll Tide, though.
>>---l>
Willing to bet
they stay on no matter the bowl. Not sure on this though. We need someone in ASAP. Karma, I guess we compete with UF for recruits more. Even though they have been stomping us still a good point. I don’t think I will be able to actually watch the UF game. Can’t watch another minute of Tebow playing with another soundtrack of announcer worship. I’ll DVR it. IF Bama wins, I’ll watch it, again, and again, and again. Then a couple more times Sunday.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Very sound reasoning Frank
Roll tide roll!
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
Oh, side note.
Keep up the outstanding captions on the photos. Great stuff.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Do you mean God? The man above. Remember no religion please.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
So if he is...
are you going to ban him? I could discuss religion at length, but I was pretty sure that was a rules violation.
We can’t make exceptions for anyone, lest this whole Bobby Bowden sitaution recreate itself on TN.
Next thing you know, Uncensored is going to try to hire his son….
Re: point #8 in your thesis -- "Other ties I won't delve into."
I’ve got to be the guy that asks.. can you humor us and “delve” in any capacity?
Does this relate to off-hand information you know about Smart, something you know about Fisher, or perhaps something a player or other “source” has said?
Ha...
I’m just imagining a call where a disgruntled tenant calls a DC at a major DI school about a broken washing machine.
“I don’t care who you’re scheming for. There is water all over my floor! get down here now!”
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 2, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Casteel
Rivals and Sporting News seem to think that WVU d-coord Jeff Casteel is the frontrunner.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=td-newsflash111909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
I think this makes much more sense.
Kirby Smart wants to be a HC. The “Saban’s coattails” argument is really not logical. Why would anyone risk being exposed? Being near family is not a big deal. These guys work 100 hour weeks and it is not like he’s in Alaska now.
Sal Sunseri has never been a D-1 d-coord. Jimbo has never been an HC. Coley has never been an OC. That’s a lot of on-the-job training.
Casteel – although not great this year, the Neers’ D has been pretty good in the past…2 years ago they averaged under 300 yards allowed per game! Casteel and Jimbo are both West Virginia born and raised, Casteel is youngish (i think 47 yo), has 6 years experience as a DC, and WVU does go into Florida to recruit. He also coached HS in Miami (in 1987). He also had enough sense not to follow Rich-Rod. As a negative, the Big East has some terrible offenses (but then, so does the ACC).
I’m putting my money on Jeff Casteel.
Casteel bio
Here’s his bio for those that care:
sunseri
is sunseri really from the saban family? one year as the inside linebacker coach?
Saban hand picked him to fix the pass rush
Bama guys love him and would rather lose Smart than him. He also has worked under Dom Capers who is tremendous.
I will be extremely disappointed if it turns out to be Casteel (or Hudson, for that matter).
Neither of those guys has the pedigree or track record to make the splash that is needed. Essentially, we’d be saying, “we’re going to have a defense like WVU’s!” or “We’re going to have a defense like ECU’s!” Not so exciting, and leaves the onus of rebuilding entirely on their ability to connect individually with recruits. That’s a huge gamble.
Having a defense like Alabama’s, on the other hand, carries immediate weight. You might have some recruits calling us, for a change.
You have to remember though
Guys like smart are more likely to be looking for HC positions (they can make a LOT more money as an HC than a coordinator)
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Thanks for the memories, Bobby Bowden
I'll clarify that the specific conditions that will satisfy me will be:
(1) Comes directly from an ELITE college defense… and if not the DC, then a high ranking assistant, preferably with NFL coaching experience, a la Sunseri. Anyone from ECU and WVU come up short in this regard.
- OR -
(2) Comes directly from the NFL. Someone like Herring or Dunbar, though I don’t know how we reconcile retaining Haggins when adding Dunbar.
Players want a ticket to the League. You either get there via a dominating college defense or being coached by a guy that’s been there. Anything short of these criteria will be a bust, in my opinion.
you are right
my mistake. he did do a good job. considering his talents.
can’t slip anything by you, bud.
i mean the talent of his players
not of his own playcalling.
He's also very quick in the box
and him and Fisher are pretty much in lockstep with this pro-spread stuff we want to run.
Do you know if he would coach from the box?
I dont know if he already does, but I always thought it would be better from the box so you could see the defense set up?
Defensive playcalling is way way overrated
Defensive schemes and fundamentals and recognition are not.
We dont need a play caller on def but a real teacher.
the days of beating teams with better, faster, stronger players is over and we need someone that can teach players how to play there positions so the Def can work as one unit one team.
I look at E. Brown like this. He was a great player that made great plays but how much better would he have been if the rest of the team was doing what they were suppose to do. How great would the LB be this year if Budd T could actualy play. The Def now does there own thing for the most part and MA and CTC cant do anything about that because its just not the same. God love them but we need someone that can teach right now.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
As much as I hate to say this
Budd T was best at jumping on the pile after the play was over, and trying to drive his knee into the backs of opposing players when they were on the ground. Make me sick to see it, especially when they showed replays.
If he played more this season, I think we could have expected to see some eye gouging or knee twisting.
With that said, he does put in a lot of effort, and that is appreciated. I’m glad that the younger guys we have on the DL are getting better, and the off-season should do them some good.
about JF and Coley
JF hasnt been a HC and but Coley has been a OC at Florida International and worked as a ass. coach with WR, TE, and RB. (dont have to worry about the o-line because Trickett is the man.) JF and Coley are the recruiting masterminds right now and with the way JF runs the offense I dont see much change there. I would bet whoever he gets in he would let them have 97% control over the Def at all aspects other than recruiting and even then he would only be the last say of the recruits they want. I would bet he would go 100% with them on that so for most everything the DC will have full control of the Def. Also Im sure that JF will run the offense like Saben runs the Def. So Any DC that comes will be given talent and drive.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
FSU can do much better
WVU’s defense isn’t that great plus they run a weird defensive formation i think a 3-3-5 or something like that. They may have changed though. The level of competion faced by SEC coaches is far greater than in the Big East. I actually think Hudson would be a better hire than Casteel since he runs a more traditional defensive set, and it seems that the defense at ECU is superior to the offense i.e. their defense wins games. When you have a potent offense like WVU’s it keeps the ball way from the opposing team’s offense altering WVU’s defensive stats. Notice how this year’s defensive stats aren’t all that great. I’d pass
Ok maybe I missed this within the last month or so
But is Steele completely out of the question? I mean Smart would be awesome, but is there any way we could pry Steele away from Clemson? Sorry if you guys covered this in an older thread but I had to ask about my boy Kevin
YES
Steele is not coming here
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
And FSU won't pursue him after the way he left
Doubt he would ever be interested in coming back anyway
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Ok just wanted to double check on that
I know it wasnt a good exit but I just wasnt sure with the new regime. In that case, lets go get Smart.
by BJ the Bossman on Dec 2, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I wish he hadn't left on bad terms like he did
It would be great to see Steele back on our sidelines. Just think of the LBs that guy put through to the NFL while he was here.
I'm not the best person to answer that
Just remember reading several different reports of him not being please about how his departure was handled
After seeing Clemson make Garcia and South Carolina look so good
I am not sure I would want Steele.
The Dawgs here in Atlanta seem to think Smart is their top DC candidate
UGA would make a lot of sense for him for obvious reasons (UGA grad, they can pay him out the arse). The biggest reason I’ve heard that UGA is not realistic for him is because there were some burned bridges in Athens before leaving. Not sure how true it is.
by Dent Street Nole on Dec 2, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions
Probably everyone's top.
But the better move for smart is to stay away from UGA right now and let Richt flounder so that the HC job opens up.
While I don't believe Smart is coming to Tally, I think you're right that we get that type of DC
Good things a-coming :)
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Thanks for the memories, Bobby Bowden
I am scared of what will happen if we don't get Smart
Honestly none of the other prospects really encourage me much. Sunseri seems like a good choice but I don’t know much about his recruiting capabilities, and I would really love to see a younger more energetic DC that can connect with recruits the way the opposition does. As far as the NFL guys go we keep mentioning D-Line coaches, sure they are great D-Line coaches but there is not much scheming that goes on coaching D-Line, I would like to see a great LB or DB coach. I don’t really know much about the ECU guy or some of the others but I hope we can pull Smart away from Bama.
I wouldn't despair if we don't
Remember if it wasn’t for the whole HCIW idea we probably wouldn’t have JF either
2009 Rays Baseball: Welp.....we'll try again in 2010
2009 FSU Football: Thanks for the memories, Bobby Bowden
So question about Smart
If we were to go to a 3-4 with a LB close to the line how would this help our (Size does matter) We dont have a DT like Bama that is 370+LB to sit in the middle. We do however have some talent that could grow to be something great and some very fast LB. Does Smart and the other Guys we are looking at have the same idea that size does matter.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Multiple front Defense is what we will be looking at next year
And some of the Juco guys we are looking to add on defense are the big body types to clog the middle when we do go to a 3-4 during a game.
If we go to a 3-4
Can FSU switch to a 3-4 zone team over the off season. Most of the Def players have seen very little zone because MA runs so much Man to man and HS do as well because DB are some much faster. I know in Bay Co everyone ran man cover 2 for the most but then again that was back in the 90s as well. Times change.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
My guess is that zone is the immediate answer
Hopefully we won’t be as bad NC State’s version, and we won’t be as effective as BC’s. But we definitely can’t run man-to-man against most teams anymore.
dont get me wrong I like the 3-4 zone vs the spread.
I like having 4 fast LB that fly around but when teams run a Pro- I I would like to see more a 4-3 but from what I understand this 3-4 runs like a 4-3 where they bring a LB up to the line and has hands down. EB would have been great doing that.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
the "hand down" is a little overrated, it's really about personnel on the field
But what you are referring to is the “Jack” position, a rush LB. And you are correct, EB would have been perfect for it. I think he was drafted with rush LB in mind, but has apparently been able to slide over to DE (3-4) and play ok.
Carolina runs a base 4-3
He has been used as a 4-3 end not 3-4. He is not nearly big enough to play 3-4 end in the NFL
My guess as to whether we are able to make immediate conversion...
To at least a “base” 3-4 is:
(1) Deas making it in, though some have speculated he is more suited to a role as a monster DE…?
(2) McCray adding 20+ lbs…. even though he is limited to working out with <225 lbs, due to heart condition.
(3) or, some unforeseen recruits/transfers coming in.
Can’t see McDaniel growing into a NT, nor anyone else on our current roster…. so we’re razor thin at a 3-4 NT position any way you look at it. I don’t exactly see how it works, either, which makes me think we will bring things along slowly, running about as much 3-4 as we did when Steele was here, to start, and adding in more as the personnel shifts in this direction.
by arrdub on Dec 2, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Jimbo gets this decision right. He has to.
I’ve noticed that the media hasn’t really been that hard on the decision to move on without Bowden.
There has been alot of doubt in Jimbo in the media (guys that don’t know the situation). I’ve heard the following:
A) Jimbo’s already been running the show for a couple of years
2) this will be the same O that stunk it up against UF
Will someone please shut Dicky V up!!!!!
Not only does he have the most annoying voice in the world and the worst catch phrases ever but now he thinks he is a specialist in FSU football just because he loves “Big name” coaches. Guy sucks up to Coach-K and Roy Williams like a little fan boy
Those 2, plus...
i came across 2 shows last night with the same sentiment (never watched them) the Tony Barnhart Show, and Inside College Football on CBS sports.
About our position coaches on Defense
When will we start announcing our new position coaches? I know the new DC will have a say in who will be in his staff, like Fisher did with Tricket and Coley, but if I am not mistaken both got hired before Fisher did.
FORMER FSU GREATS
FSU players new and old stopped by to chat with Evan Cohen on ESPN 760 yesterday. Hear from Charlie Ward, Danny Kanell, Chris Weinke and more, including a compilation of Bowden’s best interviews.
Reasonable expectations
I’m hoping for Smart and lots of multiple formations. Putting someone over the center is always a good idea. It’s hard to find college centers that can handle a good NG (regardless of size). Good defense starts from the inside out.
In trying to set expectations for next year I researched the NCAA stats for Total Defense (had to pick something). Nebraska before and after Pelini’s arrival is probably a good comparison. Nebraska 2007 total defense: 112th Nebraska 2008 total defense: 55th.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/general+information/stats/football/index.html
I think Smart could come here and get out defense into the top 30 within a couple years. If FSU starts winning with a resurgent defense, Smart would be able to pick his HC job.
Foosball is the devil
If we got Kirby, I'd want him to have a protege on staff
So that we can simply promote in-house when he leaves for a HC job
>>---l>
It had been said that he was looking for a HC job
But there have been conflicting reports on him. Paging Frank.
>>---l>
When was Kirby a GA? Was there an overlap his tenure and that of Diaz?
I know Diaz was on staff during the 1998 season, for sure. If they were on board together for any stretch, then they might have a direct relationship that would mitigate any concerns about Amato’s influence.
I think the idea of a protege is a solid addition to considerations.
Smart was a GA from like 2002-2003 (not sure on that).
CBs improved tremendously during that stretch.
well we would have at leat 2 maybe 3 years from smart before he were to leave
That gives us some time to find the right fits for recruting and up and comming coaches. Also Im sure JF has a play of who he wanted on his staff for the next few years. Worst comes to worst we send Trickett to Def and let him teach the players how to hit again. I like Trickett.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
They should just put him in a room with all the players.
He would scare the defense to where they are afraid not to hit.
Frank, if I may...here was another (classic) response about Manny...
“I have insider information about Manny Diaz.
If he were offered the LB coach job at FSU he would leave Rick Stockstill and MTS faster than a crack whore will go down on you for a rock, and that is pretty damn fast ( I only know it’s fast because that is what a friend has told me.)
Let’s just say I am familiar with the situation."
Ha!
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
While I'm pretty confident Manny Diaz would love to come back to FSU, I don't think there realistically is a chance.
This is just my opinion without any “insider information,” which was probably inappropriate and a phrase I probably should not have used here.
What I do know and part of the problem Bud alluded to, was his ties with Amato. He was with CTC for 6 years at NCST. Before that he was Mickey Andrews GA in ’98 and during our ’99 NC season, but that is probably not as big of an issue (if there even is one).
He left with CTC where he was a GA working with the LB’s, then 2 years as LB coach, and then 2 as safeties/special team’s coach. He’s been with former FSU QB Rick Stockstill since 2006 as the Blue Raiders DC.
Another wrinkle is that MTS will probably be either going to the Eagle Bank Bowl on 12/29 or the GMAC bowl on 1/6, although they would prefer to go to the New Orleans Bowl on 12/20, but Troy would have to be selected to a better bowl and that will probably not happen.
I think he would be a great LB and/or Special Team coach while being groomed for the DC position, maybe even replacing Smart/Sunseri/et.al. when they move on. I would love to see him back at FSU for personal reasons, but I don’t think he has the Jimbo ties that the more knowledgeable members of the TN staff here thinks he needs, and the CTC ties are probably not viewed as a positive by Fisher.
This is not to say it won’t happen, IMO I doubt it will, but I would be thrilled and I think most of us would be happy, but I don’t know if any attempt to contact has been made.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Most idiotic argument
I’m getting tired of the argument that “fisher may be a good coordinator, but may not be a good head coach.” Who has ever walked off the streets into a stadium and was crowned head coach??? I cant think of one HC who wasnt some type of assistant first. What has anyone seen from fisher that would give the impression he’s not head coach material (dont start with the BS that he didnt call timeouts for clock managment purposes…thats the HC job not OC). All signs point to JF being a top HC.
Absolutely agree
I am amazed that anybody watching Fisher can’t see he will be a dynamite head coach.
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
I think the answer is Bobby lovers
A buddy of mine called me when he heard Bowden left. He was irate. Said FSU had wronged Bowden. Said that although he was an FSU fan, he will never root for them agains and he will always cheer whoever we are playing. blah blah blah
I explained that it is time and that he is leaving in the best possible way—all things considered. He gets to leave with Mickey, gets to go to the Gator, leaves with bowl streak in tact, he goes out a winner. blah blah blah
His response was “I bet you Jimbo won’t last 10 years.” “If he goes 6-6 next season are you going to want to fire him?” “You just wait until you’ve had a couple years of Jimbo. Then you’ll be wishing you had Bobby back. That man’s a legend. No one’s done what he did, and no one will propbably do it again. That man’s a winner.”
So the most sense I can make out of the nonsense about questioning Jimbo’s HC ability is to conclude that the doubters aren’t so much doubters as they are Bowden lovers.
How many kids can we take in this next class?
We are already at 16, is it 21 total before attrition? Leaving us with 5 more spots + attrition spots?
In Ponder We Trust
Pre-Injury Regular Season Stat Projections: 21 TD: 2 Int, 3738 yards, 70 %COMP
WOW
really that many after attrition? That DC is going to need to close a lot of kids…but if its Smart’s job, I won’t be worried
In Ponder We Trust
Pre-Injury Regular Season Stat Projections: 21 TD: 2 Int, 3738 yards, 70 %COMP
Keep in mind the JUCO EE kids, plus more attrition than usual this offseason
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
someone might beat me to this
But you can count kids against prior classes, later classes, etc. So yes, you can only technically take 25 a year, but some of these guys might be grayshirted (count for 2011) or early enroll and count for 2009 in the spots that were vacated by non-qualifiers.
Also, i think we only get 24 new scholies this year in the last year of our probation. Though I definitely could be wrong about that.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 2, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
After Houston Nutt last year, the SEC set a limit on the players that could sign in a class.
Class limits in the SEC. Something like that.
Not to mention, God forbid
we could have kids not make it. I’ve not heard anything about anyone yet, but it happened last year with two of our five best recruits (Willie Downs and CJ Mizell).
SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!
But it was pretty much a given from the get go
We knew they wouldn’t make it, but sure as hell would take them if they did. I don’t think we have much of a problem with any of our current commitments or prospects.
And it opens up two more spots for kids this year to be counted toward last year
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 2, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Would you think a good DC running "Saban-esque" style D's would also benefit our Offense and make them even better?
I would think so, especially if we get improved talent and the DC runs multiple schemes to practice against.
Better defense
Means the offense is on the field for a longer period of time. Ponder gets more shots.
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
I don't see how you can say that
Due to money? What programs have considerable more cash than us? Florida, Notre Dame, LSU, Bama, USC, Ohio State…?
We have solid facilities and have the potential for excellent recruiting given our location and prestige. And apparently we can draw good coaches too.
I just don’t understand how we can be the premier team in the 90s and you think we will never return to that level.
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 2, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Got too much Vegas in ya, FSUn....
The odds aren’t there, but it can happen…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Before the early 2000's, the big money schools did not realize how they could use their money
to separate themselves. But they had the epiphany and it’s very bad for us.
then explain a Boise State or a Utah?
Those teams have managed to build great teams without the money. If they played in a major conference they might have had a chance to play for a NC by now.
but they don't play in a major conference
and they ain’t playing for a NC. You just made his point
But FSU does.
Who in the ACC has a higher ceiling than FSU? Maybe Miami?
I think uncensored is thinking too much into this. I understand in the business world the firms that have the most capital will succeed the most and be the most successful. They will be the first ones to create new products, they can set the best prices, build the most stores, etc. College football is a business, but there is a difference. We can recruit! We are not at any disadvantage when it comes to talent. And we can get coaches, as evident by the 2nd winningest HC of all time we just had, and a promising HC prospect who has proved to be an excellent OC.
We pulled possibly the best OL coach away from his school and we might get the DC of freaking Alabama.
What's this epiphany?
Paying top dollar for the best staff and the advertising, or is it ol ladies dropping bills into Chris Rainey’s hand?
Disagree sooooo much!
ACC Atlantic: Only Clemson can compete on national level
All we have to do is run the table and win the ACC Championship to have a shot.
I will lay down a significant bet we win one before 2020
but I thought we dont play miami every year now
Also dont we have OU in the line up in somewhere in the next few years. If FSU can get there stuff together and beat UF then they should be good enough to beat any team in the ACC because the ACC dont get the recruits like FSU and miami can. Also SOS we need to lighten up a little because we can own the ACC and get some mid lvl BCS teams like UF does we can get back to a 10+ win year in and out faster.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
OU, BYU, WVU, USF all in the next 4 seasons
@ OU, vs BYU in 2010
vs OU in 2011
@WV, @ USF in 2012
vs WV in 2013
There’s also a home-and-home with Air Force in 2011 and 2012.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Dec 2, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
For football scheduling in the ACC....
We play every team in our division every year, and each team has one team in the other division they will also play every year. For us, that’s Miami. We rotate the other Coastal teams…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
so who the hell was smoking crach when they though
Hey lets play Clemson, Miami, UF, BYU, and OU on top of the rest of the ACC. @#$? So we could face 5-7 ranked teams next season. Thats kinda stupied to me. do the people that pick who we play want us to win or are they trying see us lose.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
we have no control over our ACC schedule.
I think we beat BYU next year, they will have a new QB. As we showed this year, we match up great on the offensive side of the ball vs them.
I’m excited to play OU. They also will have a new QB next year, and as they showed this year, they are not an elite team anymore, at least not for now. Landry Jones isn’t all that, this game is very winnable.
no we should play teams from the Wac or conf USA
When we play the the Miami and UF + the rest of the ACC on our side we can get away wioth playing teams like Troy or UAB. There is no need to put us agenst top 25 teams. Im not saying Im scared because Im not Im down with anytime anywhere but Come on look at UF They have a cake SOS compared to us. They have 2 game a champ game then the NC thats it. Its BS.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
UF & UA schedule to win NCs
we schedule to go 8-4. we should play UF and 3 Sun Belt teams every yr. Notice that UF plays FIU and UA plays chattanooga to set up their stretch run of rivalry game & than 2 championship games. You give minor injuries a chance to heal and have evryone rested
You are all missing the point...
Part of what made us elite in the past is the fact that we always played a tough schedule. We play Miami and UF every year, while UF dropped Miami. Growing up, that’s why I became an FSU fan. FSU wasn’t afraid to play anybody. In 1981 we played 5 consecutive road games: Nebraska, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Pitt, LSU. That’s why people liked us. We didn’t schedule cupcake games, and we still did pretty damn good. If we didn’t have to play Florida or Miami every year, we would have won about 6 national championships, but that’s not who we are. We have more pride than Florida. Honestly, I love that we actually schedule tough opponents, because at least we don’t leave any doubt if we win that we deserved it!
In the past, SOS meant more than it does now...
All that matters to teams in BCS conferences are wins and losses…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Sure it mattered more to the voters
back then, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t still factor into the perception of a program. Being able to play UF and Miami every year is a big selling point to a lot of recruits… Besides, we don’t play well against bad teams anyway. We barely pulled off a win against Jacksonville St. this year.
I don't think it does as much either, look at Texas this year...
Out of conference games:
LaMonroe, UTEP, UCF, and Wyoming
If they beat Nebraska they are going to the title game. Not that I think we should play a patsy out of conference schedule every year, but saying we should be loading our schedule all the time just because we used to, don’t make sense anymore.
True...
But the problem we would ultimately run into is if we go undefeated, and there is an undefeated Big 12 team and an undefeated SEC team, the voters would put the Big 12 and SEC teams in because they are tougher conferences. They don’t have to play tough out of conference opponents because their conferences get the most respect by the voters. Until the ACC is respectable, it is necessary to schedule at least one tough out of conference game to have a shot at a title (granted, anyone who thinks FSU will compete for a national championship in the next 5 years is delusional), but ultimately if the ACC doesn’t improve, and we want to win a title, we will have to play tough out of conference games… Besides, it’s just more fun to beat good teams. I think until we get the ship righted a weak schedule might help us, but we’ve fallen so low that playing terrible teams will not help us get back to an elite level because the ACC just isn’t that good.
The Big XII is tough?
I thought it was a cakewalk for Texas this year…
No defenses in that conference and all their QBs either graduated or were injured.
Point is
We play Miami, Florida, Clemson and Boston College every year. We will face Georgia Tech or Virginia Tech almost every year. That’s 2 elite teams and 3 good programs every year.
Is that any different than UF playing FSU, UGA, UT and then an Auburn/LSU/Bama combo?
We don’t need to schedule BYU, Oklahoma, WVU, etc anymore. The reason the SEC is so highly thought of is partly because they all play nobody OOC and therefore boost their win totals, which play a HUGE role in poll voting. Those rankings play a HUGE role in national perception. All of that feeds itself and helps their BCS chances. Obviously they have to perform when it counts (BCS games), though.
This is sort of off topic
Let’s say it’s an even numbered year and we play UF at home, we COULD have 8 home games in those seasons if we chose to schedule 3 home games with our remaining OOC games. Would fans travel for all 8 games? In these years should FSU move one to Tampa or Orlando? It could drastically cut travel time to a large number of our fanbase for a game that they may otherwise not want to travel to (say it’s the 3rd home game in a row and it’s against Louisiana Lafayette and 2 weeks later we have a home game against Clemson).
I honestly don’t know if more or less people would attend a game in Orlando to face La-Lafayette than in Tally. I would expect FSU students to get something like $15 tickets and the game to be included in the season ticket package.
I only say this because we just don’t draw like SEC schools. Some of that may be due to the last several years, so I wouldn’t propose implementing this immediately. And if we projected we’d actually make more money with a true home game, I wouldn’t propose this either.
Just wondering some of the opinions on here.
This has always been our route..beat UF and miami...
and an occasional bigger opponent (that we need to stop doing)…No sense in playing OU, BYU, and UF out of conference next year.
The thing is our TV money was set before our schedule
it’s not like we’re making more money from the ESPNs by playing OU rather than North Texas.
ESPN pays an annual fee to the ACC for the right to broadcast their games and home OOC games, of which we get our cut regardless of how many times we appear on their network(s).
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
The OOC games get scheduled years in advance
Are you telling me that ESPN would pay the same $ if it knew we were scheduling games against Buffalo or UAB as opposed to OU & BYU?
+ Everyone though Miami was going to get brutalized in the 1st 4 games this season.
They made it through and were ranked in the top 10 with the nat’l spotlight. In some strange twisetd fashion, we managed pretty well against top teams this year until we were on the raod at FU without 4 off. starters. BYU, GT, Miami. We did well.
Winning out of conference games against good opponents is what will bring FSU back into the spotlight and generate $. The SEC-worshiping horndog announcers treat the ACC like it’s the Pontiac of football conferences. If we want to bring the magic back, we’ve gotta do it. FU can load its out of conference schedule up with high school teams because they play in the SEC. Until 1 or 2 ACC teams break out of this parity thing, and start getting ranked in the top 5, we’ll have to continue playing strong out of conference.
Miami did get brutalized
they’re 9-3 and in the Car Quest bowl or something. You get ranked by your won-loss record. Nobody gives a damn who you play. Look at Boise, TCU, and Cinncinnati
Winning brings money and could change the situation.
We fix our out of conference schedule and even our in conference schedule I think we build the frame work to be a top tier team in the not too distant future. If FSU can start consistently putting together 10 win seasons (with a bowl victory) the money will start to pour in. Plus it should really help with recruiting. I’m not going to say FSU will be where UF or Texas is right now within 3 years, but 7 or 8 years in the future we could be. Just got to win. That’s all it really comes down to. And as everyone knows…got to get the right schedule. Depending on how much this defense improves I see FSU in the top 20 or top 15 for the next 5 or 6 years and then top 10 there after. Maybe not every year but every couple. That’s a long range forecast based on very little real data. HAHA. One can hope. I’ll take 10 win seasons, as I’m sure a whole bunch of fans would too.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Dec 2, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Our expectations should be higher, considering we are in the ACC
No reason that we can’t dominate our conference schedule.
Maryland, Wake, NC State, BC…..these our teams we should handle year in and year out.
Our offense has the framework in place to be Top 10 nationally on a reoccuring basis. We get good D coaching and recruiting and we will be a force.
It's been a struggel but...
I have learned to seriously lower my expectations for this program (sorry…made me think of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CRr-q9B1eI&feature=related). Thanks Bobby. I still know what you are saying, but those programs you listed get talent now. Just seems there is more to go around, couple that with NCAA rule changes and other stuff….just don’t think we will be able to dominate the ACC like we used to every single year.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
I could see that argument if we were stuck in the Coastal
Miami, VT, Georgia Tech, and UNC all have elite “potential”.
Clemson is our only division rival who can make that claim.
I see us making the ACC Championship game on a regular basis….with only Clemson stopping us from time to time.
If Nebraska loses in the Big 12 title game, there is a chance TCU could win the MNC...
We could get another NC or two….lol
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
If UF loses, maybe....
But it Bama loses, I don;t think they could still play for the MNC. I think the human voters would do enough to make sure it didn’t happen….
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
No chance with an undefeated
TCU or Cincinnati. Boise St. could get passed by a 1L UF or Bama.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
It would be the winner of UF/Bama vs Cincinnati
and wouldnt that be funny to see Bama lose to Cincinnati. of all the Conf it was the big east that took down the mighty SEC
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
It would be even funnier
to see UF lose to Cincinnati. If one of the SEC powers is going to falter to a Big East opponent I’d much rather that team be the gators. Hopefully after a humbling loss like that they’d actually shut up for a little while
No way a UF/Bama rematch happens
With 2 undefeated teams sitting out there? All hell would break loose.
A part of me wants to see TCU get a shot…
by DamonH on Dec 2, 2009 1:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Like it hasn't already with the BCS? lol
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Dec 2, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I was watching Tony Barnhart and they were discussing the computers possibly moving cincy ahead of TCU after their next game… This was part of the Bama/UF rematch conversation. The thought was that if Nebraska beat Tx (and there wasn’t a rematch), that Cincy would skip TCU in the polls?
I’m not a student of the polls, so I can’t really say, I’m just repeating the info.
I honestly would want to see TCU vs. Texas
to see who the best team in the state is.
Uggghhh
I think they will take a look at Smart for sure. I’m not sure if Saban would like one of his assistants to jump to a rival SEC school though. Smart also is from Georgia so that will weigh heavily.
Man i didnt even see this ..
was buried by Basketball BS. I is nice to just hear news about whats going on anyways..
Unconquered GO NOLES !
Yeah
Football and Hockey..the rest i don’t care much for.
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Dec 2, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa!
It was in no way directed towards TC or FSU, just one of many games/sports I do not care for.
it was more of a blanket generalization then a directed attack or slam. Kinda like when you tell some one “hey grab your shit and lets get going.” and if it was reversed it would be . “let me grab my stuff so we can get going.” Any sport other then Football, Hockey and Darts at Poor Pauls is BS to me its nothing personal.
So if you had taken it that way TC I apologize because It was not directed towards you or FSU .
Hope this clarifys my intentions a bit more
And Yes TC is one of many very talented writers on this site that really should be collecting checks for their time.
Unconquered GO NOLES !
by Renegade_NOL3 on Dec 3, 2009 3:21 AM EST up reply actions
You should
We have a great basketball team this year, and they need all the support they can get.
After reading all of this
I think it is going to be Smart. I can hear Saban’s send off. Go down there and take UF recruits and be sure you hang one loss on them before we play them in any title game.
Playstation All American, right again! AKA The Vulture per Bobby Bowden
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
They have been removing my stealth posts on Amato's Wikipedia page for years
I had “pretty shoes” and “aka The Chest” up for about 3 weeks before some Amato suck up removed them. We battled for a few days in the discussion pages, then I lost interest.
Chief Osceola
If we get Smart
I assume he would coach DBs as well. We’d need to fill LB and DL coach. Since Diaz looks doubtful, who are some LB candidates? Also, what is the outlook on Haggins? Would he coach the entire DL or is he gone? And lastly, will we be able to hire a Special Teams coach? It would be nice to have someone to focus specifically on ST…
Maybe, but unless....
He seems unable to land big names unless he is connected to them previously or they live nearby Tally.
He is an OK recruiter now, but lost much of his luster IMHO. He just doestn’ have ‘it’ anymore.
We'll see ......
He’s doing a good job currently. Dec. and Jan. will tell a lot about Odell.
You have to take in account, he’s agreed to recruit the Fisher-Saban way now, instead of the Bowden way. I think he stays.
Honestly....
I don’t think he is.
We have Jacobs who is OK, but not great. Same with Barnes and the project from South Ga.
He simply does not come close to Miami, UF, or even Clemson and UNC.
I like him….I want him to succeed, but I don’t see it now.
Land Dorsey, Ego Ferguson, Lemonier, type of folks now, I will start to change my mind. But I am done with sentimental feelings. FSU needs production.
I give him this recruiting class...
but after that, I think he is just content…..just like he learned from Bobby.
Though I'm not sure he's really gotten any help from the rest of the D staff
How do you sell coming to play for Allen or Amato(he was good years ago but not anymore), and nothing against Mickey but I think even his recruiting has dipped of late.
If he is retained, I would imagine, or hope so, that he realizes if doesn’t get on the ball that Fisher will have no qualms about letting him go.
Any chance Smart could get his buddy Rodney Garner to join this staff?
Decent coach, VERY good recruiter….his recruiting skill saved his job at UGA during the purge of defensive coaches. He’s made mention that he wants to be DC, and there is no way Richt gives him that job. He might welcome the change of scenery…
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Don't hope for it
Garner has ruffled a lot of feathers in Athens. He worked this entire season without a contract and is pretty much out the door after the bowl game. Richt couldn’t purge the whole staff, sadly he’s got two grad assts. and Garner preparing the game plan for the bowl against Texas A&M.
And from the word in Athens, Smart’s problems at UGA were with Garner, not Richt. It was Rodney that was keeping Kirby off the defensive staff (instead stuck him at RBs) and trying to control who and how Smart recruited.
After Bama won the SECCG last night,
Does that decrease our chances with Smart? It would seem to me that Bama would want Smart’s and the defenses’ complete focus on the BCS CG, and any announcement of Smart as our DC would definitely be a distraction. I would then think that Bama wouldn’t want any anouncement until after the BCS CG, and I don’t think we are willing to wait that long.
As much as I want Smart to be our next DC, I would have to think that last night’s win made it a near impossibility.
New defensive coodinator
Jimbo’s decision on a DC will be equivelant to John McCains choice for VP running mate….. Do it right so you don’t live to regret it….
hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
Smart deal fell through?
Here’s the latest as of 12/7:
1. Sources tell us that Head Coach Jimbo Fisher has talked to East Carolina Defensive Coordinator Greg Hudson as a contract for Sunseri might not be
finalized to Sunseri’s liking.
2. Sources tell us that Head Coach Jimbo Fisher’s number one choice for Defensive Coordinator is Alabama’s Associate Head Coach/Linebackers coach
Sal Sunseri. According to our sources a deal will be in place this week, currently negotiating, for Sunseri to be the next Defensive Coordinator for the
Seminoles. Our source close to the situation tell us that a deal could not be completed for Alabama Defensive Coordinator Kirby Smart.
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