Per DocHolliday
by fsugrizz on Dec 21, 2009 5:51 PM EST
122 comments
Copied and Paste from the AC Cooley Interview
This is just my opinion but most of the good things happening right now all stem from Fisher’s reputation among football people and his relation to Saban. Those two guys brought LSU back from the dark ages and produced a national champion.
They both have certain ideas on how a program should be built from the ground up and certainly FSU fits that category the way the program was torched by BB and friends. Coaches around the country know what Fisher is all about and as we can see many of them want to be part of what is going here.
I can easily see Hudson coming here as a linebacker coach. He has coached with Fisher before and it is not too hard to believe that Stoops bring this defense around and take over a program of his own down the road. That fits the modus opeerandi of the Stoops brothers. Two of them are already head coaches. Stoops jumped at this opportunity don’t forget. It will put the Saban Fisher stamp on his resume and it is a resume that is selling in the football world you may notice.
Hudson would be in prime position to become the next defensive coordinator at FSU should Stoops take a promotion and at that time well hey he has has learned all the tricks from some of the best, Stoops and Fisher.
Coaches like Eddie Gran, Trickett, Stoops, Coley, Hudson and the rest don’t have to take jobs with programs headed down hill. They know Fisher is a hard charger but at the same time a decent man to work for. The work place won’t be a living hell like some programs. Yeah and I have to get this one in. Meyer is not attracting coaches so much as a pattern of coaches who want to move along and away from him as soon as possible. That is the way it seems to me anyway. His receiver coach took a lateral to LSU. That doesn’t sound like a receiver coach who thought he would be playing for one NC after another.
By the way two gator recruits, wide receiver Kenny Stills and safety Tony Jefferson out of California have just renounced UF and signed with Oklahoma! I wonder what the brother of our new defensive coordinator told them? One can just imagine (little brother is going to smoke that program among other things) and the head coach is suffering heart pains and dehydration! Meyer sees the handwriting on the wall. FSU is the talk of college football right now.
Next time Jimbo Fisher is in Central Florida he should stop in and buy me a steak as I have defended this guy on various forums from day one. All the way from fans saying his offense was just like Jeff Bowden’s to Trickett recruits lineman who are too skinny. Anyone familiar with Fisher’s history pretty much knew this day was coming.
When Fisher said Ponder would play on sunday, I knew Ponder would play on sunday. It was always easy for me.
Of course most of you by now know where I am going with this. The process is out there people, it is real, it is unstoppable!
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He certainly
can afford to buy you that steak now.
If I'm ever again in Cnetral Florida
and have some time, I may indeed buy you that dinner… but because you served this country as a border agent. Thanks.
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy
Nice post
I don’t know if Meyer is a pain to work for, but I have the feeling that the WR coach felt the run they just had is near impossible to duplicate and it was best to get while the getting was good. My feeling on UF right now is that it is going through the largest mass exodus I have ever seen happen to one school and it could not happen at a better time. UF is also trying to go national with their recruiting and that never really goes right.
The timing could not be better for us as we finally have a full, professional staff that appears to be competent as well as aggressive and hard working. I know we don’t have the money that UF has, but I think FSU is a slightly easier/better job because you have the same recruiting base, a level of prestige that is basically on par and a much easier conference to play in.
Having Bobby withdrawals, sll1728?
I know he counted on a lot of you to supply him with adult diapers over the past 10 years, and you really felt connected… you know, part of the team. But, there’s no reason to suggest that Jimbo needs help cleaning his backside after he takes a Lane Kiffin. Besides, you should be looking forward to that wonderful cruise with Bobby and Ann and his closest fans/friends.
by coonhound on Dec 22, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How can people continue to support Bobby in that fashion?
Especially after the successes we have had in the past couple weeks. Many recruits have come out and said they were not going to come here because of Bobby Bowden.
How does that not compute with these people?
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Always remember RaysnNoles, those are Bobby Bowden University people/fans
They really don’t give a crapola…er kiffin what happens to FSU. Watch them pour out of the wood work like termites everytime FSU football loses a game next year.
All they ever cared about was Bobby B and a slumping, weakened, pathetic FSU never bothered them as long as Bobby B was yucking it up with down-home slang after every game.
I can honestly say I detest those “fans.” I’ll have to ask for forgiveness feeling such a way at Chritmas time and all, but its true I can’t stomach the BBU crowd, nor the all-worshiping Mike Martin crowd (I’m looking at you Section B, MadCow, ect…)
+1.
I wish they’d go root for UNA.
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy
Regardless of what's happened the last 4-5 years
FSU is a high profile football program because of Bobby Bowden. Bobby needed to go, but never forget that FSU is where it’s at because of Bobby Bowden. Jimbo is standing on Bobby’s shoulders— and has given Bobby the proper respect and credit that he deserves— a hell of a lot more than some so-called Nole fans. In fact, if it wasn’t for a man of Bobby’s stature high profile coaches like Jimbo Fisher and Rick Trickett wouldn’t have even given FSU a second look. Stoops, Hudson, etc., are partly coming to coach with Jimbo but they are mostly coming because they get to coach at a high profile school like FSU. That high profile was and always will be because of Bobby Bowden. Never forget that!
I am going to differ with you there
You can’t say Bobby Bowden is the reason FSU was successful, there was FSU football before him. Who is to say had he left for Alabama we wouldn’t have been more successful?
During BB’s tenure at FSU the University of Miami won 5 National Championships under 4 different coaches. I do not for a second believe that Bowden couldn’t have handed the reins to someone else and that individual would have had similar if not more success.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I prefer to deal in actuality not hypotheticals
Yes, FSU football existed before Bowden and there were successful coaches here before Bowden but the fact is, FSU’s football was is shambles and could quite possibly have been shut down before Bobby arrived. You’re making silly non sequitor arguments. Yes, he could have gone to Bama BUT HE DIDN"T (you can bet your ass Jimbo— urged on by his agent— would have left). Yes, we might have been better OR WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN WORSE. We won 2 NCs, had an unprecented 14 years in the top 5, and was crowned team of the decade and all you can do is bemoan how we could have been better? How pathetic! Yes, UM had more success (and more lucky breaks in winning their NCs) but what does that have to do with Bobby building FSU into the program it is now? Nothing! And at least Bobby built our program without Luther Campbell’s pay-for-performance, drug abuse, and thug-life at UM as was well documented by ESPN recently. Bobby built a program that can withstand setbacks; Miami, despite its 4 NCs, looks firmly entrenched in mediocity. How many ACC campionships have they won since joining the ACC? ZERO!
Do you understand where the program is now compared to 10 years ago?
You can’t give him credit for building it up without blaming him for tearing it down. Please don’t fool yourself into thinking that FSU did not receive lucky breaks in playing for their NC’s or that their players were not compensated in one way or another.
FSU’s resurgance into a nation’s elite will be done despite Bowden’s selfish actions over the past decade.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I've been fortunate enough to watch FSU football since 1975
I’ve watched Bobby’s highs (77-80), lows (81-86), domination (87-00), and everything in-between (01-present), so yeah, I understand where the program is now. Like I said earlier, it was time for Bobby to go. But I don’t see this need that some people have for tearing down Bobby in the process of building Jimbo up. I have great hope that Jimbo will get us on the right path again— but it was Bobby who built that path.
It has everything to do with "Bobby Bowden building the program"
“Lucky breaks” include uf and then miami going on successive NCAA sanctions that allowed us to cherry pick the best recruiting crop in the country for 10 years. “Lucky breaks” allowed that talent to mask the lack of balance, creativity and discipline inherent in Bowden’s coaching style. Luck ran out too often when we beat enough teams with less depth on our schedule to get to the title game. Bowden was not the only coach that could have done that at FSU under the circumstances.
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy
That's not lucky breaks
that was uf’s and um’s own doing. No question we got a lucky break in winning our first NC, but we also had to had to play uf a second time in ’96 in the Sugar bowl because Texas loses to a sorry Colorado team (IIRC). We play Texas and we would have had another NC. We had to play UT in the ’97 Fiesta Bowl with our 3rd string QB (Outzen)! If we had Weinke as our QB no doubt we win the NC.
1996 never existed
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 22, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Neither did 97
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 22, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
re: 1996 replay with UF
Texas beat Nebraska in the Big 12 Championship game (1st one) to cause the rematch.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Make up your mind
I prefer to deal in actuality not hypotheticals
but then 2 posts later you go on to say
If we had Weinke as our QB no doubt we win the NC.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Enough already
I have yet to see a sensible argument in favor of BB that didn’t reference who he was while omitting who he is. The assumption that everyone who thought it was in the best interest of FSU to part ways with him are not appreciative of everything he has done for the university is assinine at best. Ten years of below average performance based not only on the standards he set but also on the expectations of many reasonble supporters and an inability to “right the ship” desptie being “one player away” means both parties should move on. I, and I suspect most people here, gave BB everything we had and we didn’t want things to end the way they did but what’s done is done and what was done was necessary.
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 22, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
This...
I prefer to deal in actuality not hypotheticals
but a paragraph before you said,
if it wasn’t for a man of Bobby’s stature high profile coaches like Jimbo Fisher and Rick Trickett wouldn’t have even given FSU a second look
looks to me like dealing in hypotheticals. Or do you only not deal in hypotheticals when it fits your agenda not to deal in hypotheticals?
FYI, Jimbo looked at HC at UAB only a few years ago – even if we were on par with that school, our location makes us a more attractive job.
by Aussierat on Dec 22, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not hypotheticals because that is precisely what they said
in their press conferences and interviews when they joined the program. They said they came because they wanted to coach for a respected HC like Bowden. After all, Fisher and Trickett were already at programs that were doing much better than FSU was doing. So why would they leave LSU and WVU respectively to make lateral moves to FSU? More money? Perhaps, but there are teams with deeper pockets out there that would have been willing to pay top dollar for a Fisher or a Trickett.
Fisher hated Miles
Maybe hate is a strong word but Miles and Fisher did not get along so Fisher made a move. Pretty sure he had no idea what exactly he was getting himself into.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 23, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Why bet Jimbo would leave?
First we have to remember that Bowden didn’t turn down Bama out of loyalty, he was upset the job wasn’t just handed to him and decided to stay. Big difference. We also have no way to know if Jimbo would leave so you say you don’t want to deal in hypotheticals but then do it yourself. Also it is funny to say Miami is firmly entrenched in mediocrity when they beat us and had a better record than us.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 22, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
FSU football could have quite possibly been shutdown if Bobby had stayed
It was well on the way with falling attendance, donations and faltering recruitment on the defensive side of the ball.
Bill Peterson football teams actually won games against Florida, chicken wire Jones took the program down after he left.
BB did some good things but he was no Bear Bryant. A 14 year run is very commendable but two national titles in 32 years could certainly be improved upon, losing 3 of 5 national title games could also. BB was not very good at adjustments at times.
We don’t know what would have happened at FSU if a Jimmy Johnson had been hired instead of Bowden. Perhaps we would have more national championships. Any of the big three teams in Florida should be a top ten team there is enough talent in state for this. Anything else is sub par.
The last few years he has shown a self centered arrogance most of us did not know existed. His hiring of assistants has been terrible. FSU is not a jobs program for old buddies or a place to experiment with untried assistants. He was actually a hindrance from what I read here to structuring the practices and the nutritional program. He did not think it was necessary. Some of his decisions almost lead you to believe there was a lingering score to settle with the university.
Some of the blame has to reside with P.K. Wetherell for allowing this to go on. It should have been nipped in the bud. I never wanted Bowden to go away mad, I just wanted him to go away.
Frankly after the bowl game most discussions concerning Bobby, my answer in most cases is going to be Bobby Who?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Pretty easy to know what would have happened if we hired JJ at FSU
He would have let it be run by thugs and reprobates and then jumped ship for a bigger, better deal the first chance he got.
How many coaches have won 2 or more championships during Bowden’s tenure at FSU? How many have even gotten to play in 5 NC games? Like they say, it’s better to have played and lost than not even been in the game.
Who says that?
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 22, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
It's a play on a line from one of Tennyson's poems.
By the way, Jimbo’s line that you quote he attributes to learning from Bowden.
I know that
I was wondering if it was a direct quote. IMO, getting there and losing isn’t any more gratifying than not getting there at all.
I hope Jimbo did learn something from Bowden because BB was great in his day and Jimbo came up through the Bowden family; however, JF has given Saban a lot of credit for teaching him how to build a winning program as well. Few people are “tearing down BB” but it seems that you’re doing more glorifying of him than anything else. That tearing down you mentioned is really acknowledging his recent shortcomings as opposed to others acting as if the last decade never existed. I will say this…I respect the passion of your argument even though I disagree.
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 23, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Excuse me if I find your comments a bit patronizing.
You act, like many other Bobby apologists, that FSU fans will forget that he coached FSU football, that FSU won National Championships under his leadership, that FSU football players enjoyed a better NFL success rate than any other College program during his tenure, that FSU football players won many different individual awards, including two Heisman Trophies. We get that. We also get that he became complacent, arrogant, and entitled. We also get that he routinely insulted fans, supporters and alumni, suggesting his 30+ year tenure trumps any 4-year alumni, forgetting that he was paid millions to be there all the while.
So go ahead, and dismiss the last decade of wasted talent by simply saying, “Regardless of what’s happened the last 4-5 years.” While you choose to ignore his failures as a coach, as a leader, as an administrator, we’ll evaluate the state of FSU football objectively.
by coonhound on Dec 22, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Amen, brother!
We can appreciate the PAST as well as understanding that a change was neccessary NOW. Another year simply would’ve prolonged the agony and the rebuilding process.
Bobby was a great coach...
a true legend in the game. However, the reason all of the athletic teams in the state have become so good is because of the population boom.
Boom. Outta Here.
by Ryan Gilliss on Dec 22, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
More people = more talent to go around. It’s not coincidence that the states that produce the most talent are 3 of the largest states in the union (population wise of course). I would throw the fact that all 3 are warm weather states in there as well.
I find that to be kind of a weak connection
Population growth for the 90’s
Florida was in the top 20 percentile but I think there are more important factors other than population growth.
1) longest spring practice than any other state (many don’t have spring practice)
2) longest track season as well (fosters speed development)
3) football the prominent high school sport
4) few small high schools (no 6 or 8 man programs (or few)) unlike TX, lots of large programs creating competition to drive players to develop
5) at the time, there was a competitive weight lifting sport (is it still?)
6) weather permits outdoor activity year round
Borrowed from Wild@Heart Nole
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
If it's simply a matter of population then why
did teams from California and Texas languish in mediocrity for decades until coaches like Carroll and Brown arrived? Not only were they states with lots of sunshine and much larger population bases than FL, USC and UT had virtual monopolies in their respective states.
hardly
I hardly call USC’s 11 national championships, 47 bowl games(third nationaly), 31 bowl wins(tied for first with bama), 7 heisman trophy winners, 34 players in the college football hall of fame, or TExas who is the 2nd most winningest team in college football history, mediocrity…i’m just saying…
Same reason FSU has done it for near a decade
Even with a talented recruiting base, if your leadership is poor then the rest of the program suffers. Also USC and UT have monopolies now, but it hasn’t always been that way. UCLA used to be a great program and Texas A and M used to be very good. SMU used to be a powerhouse (money talks) as well.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 23, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention
Nebraska and OU recruiting TX and ND in Cali.
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 23, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
If he was such "a great coach", then
I wish someone would explain his record at WVU when he didn’t have an embarassment of copious FL HS athletes. Actually, one need only consider FSU from ’81’86 to see what Bowden would have done in such circumstances. Or consider his sons’ mediocre abilities, and his inability to teach Jeff anything when his job was on the line. What he was, was a “great personality” in fortunate circumstances, not a great coach.
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy
Thanks I had a pic ready for that one
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Well the fact is
Even though I am hoping the best for Fisher because it will mean the best for FSU, he never actually earned the head coaching job. Remember he was named the next head coach before turning the offense around. He got the job by his agent who was probably just fishing to get him a raise.
well the fact that he was hired with the intention of making him head coach means he "earned" the job...
im sure they went looking for an OC knowing that they would need to replace bobby in the near future so they found someone who could be an OC and HC…its not like he got hired on for a trial period to see if he could make a good HC
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 22, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
You don't just promise someone 5 million dollars if you feel they haven't earned it
One of the top offensive minds in college football today who was the offensive coordinator for the 2003 National Champion LSU Tigers.
Was named a finalist for the Frank Broyles Award as the nation’s top assistant coach in 2001.
During his tenure at LSU, the Tigers won three BCS Bowl games including winning the national title at the 2004 Nokia Sugar Bowl and earned two SEC Championships.
While he was the offensive coordinator at LSU, the Tigers had a 70-20 record (a winning percentage of nearly 80 percent) and played in seven bowl games. The 70 wins (10 wins per season) are the most in any seven year stretch in the illustrious history of the LSU football program.
Recruited and coached three players who were selected in the first round of the 2007 NFL Draft including JaMarcus Russell — the No. 1 overall selection of the Oakland Raiders.
During his seven seasons at LSU he coached five quarterbacks who were selected in the NFL Draft – Josh Booty, Rohan Davey, Craig Nall, Matt Mauck and JaMarcus Russell.
Fisher is one of the top developers of quarterbacks in all of college football as he coached two All-SEC First Team quarterbacks (Josh Booty in 2006 and JaMarcus Russell in 2006) and two All-SEC Second Team quarterbacks (Rohan Davey in 2001 and Matt Mauck in 2003).
During his seven seasons at LSU, the Tiger offenses were ranked in the nation’s top 20 in either passing, scoring or total offense six times.
With Fisher and Russell at the controls of the LSU offense in the 2006, the Tigers led the nation in passing efficiency and were ranked ninth in scoring offense.
His high powered offenses set 13 school records during his seven-year tenure at LSU.
Under Fisher’s tutelage, the Tigers’ offense was either first or second in the SEC in an offensive category nine times. In 2006, the Fisher coached offense at LSU led the SEC in scoring, total offense and pass efficiency and led the league in rushing in 2004.
He led LSU to school record for points, passing touchdowns and passing yards in a single season in 2003.
Fisher coached the only two 3,000-yard passed in LSU History (JaMarcus Russell and Rohan Davey) and the only 3,000-yard passer in the history of Auburn Football (Demeyune Craig).
As the offensive coordinator at Cincinnati, the Bearcats’ offense ranked 16th nationally.
Played quarterback for Terry Bowden at Salem College for two seasons (1984-85) and at Samford (Bobby Bowden’s alma mater) in 1987.
Set the school record at Samford with 34 passing touchdowns and was named the Division III National Player of the Year in 1987.
Played for the Chicago Bruisers of the Arena Football League in 1988.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
lol i didnt know about his stint in the AFL for the bruisers....i wonder if there are any Jimbo jerseys out there...
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 22, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
In the pro ranks, Jimbo completed 75% career of his passes. That is a higher career passing percentage than even Peyton Manning.
100% completion record if you count the pick.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
That is more of a reason he has "earned the right" to be our next head coach.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
lol wow, great stats, 3-4, 17yds, 1 INT, a QB rating of 42.71%, and a 2yd rush
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 22, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha
Im sure if you put up a sign at a game with his career stats, he would get a laugh out of it. some players are just meant to be coaches.
at 5’8 I doubt he could see much beyond the LOS
by NorthernHaze on Dec 26, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Nolestuff
Same old WC bull…t huh!
We understand you are so worried, the lineman are skinny, the sky is falling, Fisher’s offense did not win the national championship his first year.
He got the job because somebody in the administration knew more about football than you do. They knew Fisher’s history and what he was capable of and where this program was going when he got here just in time my boy, just in time.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Bullnole, welcome to TN, but telling someone what to suck is not permitted and I have deleted your post. Please keep it civil.
As some of you know when a comment is deleted, the subsequent replies are also deleted, so to those others who replied, you did nothing wrong. Thank you everyone, Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holiday’s.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Festivus...for the rest of us!
Serenity Now!!!
Ahhh,
the mighty festivus pole…
Merry Christmas Nole Fans.
Eat a warm pile of possum dung G8R fans.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Dec 22, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Who?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
I'm with ya, DocH
Once this bowl game is done I’m not gonna argue about BB anymore. In fact, I’m getting sick of it already.
You can see where all this is headed: A bunch of malcontents that saw nothing wrong with the way BB “lead” the program the last MANY years will now pick away at any percieved failings on Jimbo’s part. As I posted before…watch what happens after an FSU loss next year. These BBU guys are gonna infest every message board and comment section with anti-Jimbo, anti-FSU vitriol.
It will be very short lived
Fisher and Trickett are not the type men who fail. The assistants coming in are not either.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Either Chuck, Jody, Ann or the grand kids
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
whoever he is
he does not do his research…..I hardly look at USC and Texas and middle road teams before their current coaches……
My original comment was based on this....
“Next time Jimbo Fisher is in Central Florida he should stop in and buy me a steak as I have defended this guy on various forums from day one. All the way from fans saying his offense was just like Jeff Bowden’s to Trickett recruits lineman who are too skinny. Anyone familiar with Fisher’s history pretty much knew this day was coming.
When Fisher said Ponder would play on sunday, I knew Ponder would play on sunday. It was always easy for me."
I am not anti-Jimbo. I am pro-Jimbo. I think he “could” be sucessful and I have seen the gains on offense over the last 2 years etc…… but the record simply doesn’t show it. I think he’s bringing in a good coaching staff and is working hard to bring us back up as a program. Now that the poisonous 06 recruiting class if FINALLY gone, split and out of here overall I think we can get down to business.
My #1 issue with many fans on this site is they simply want to blame all the troubles on Bobby rather than the entire program as a whole. Too many things have happened which was beyond Bobby’s control which contributed to our downfall.
This site has a very slanted bias view towards some things. All I hear all the time on this site is a bunch of Saban worshipers and how anyone connected to Saban is a great coach blah blah blah. It gets old. Saban has done a great job since he came to Alabama. The second idol worshipped on here is James Coley. He is a hard worker and great recruiter.
The problems facing FSU over the last decade simply comes down to logistics. We were at the TOP of college football. We couldn’t get any higher after the 99 season. The only place to go was down and for the next 9 years we went down. We hit rock bottom in 06 and we have been struggling to get a firm grip on mountain since 06.
If I had to pick a key moment and key game that caused us to fall down the mountain it was in 2001 against Miami. We were killed at the Doak. Our 58 game streak was over and after that our players who played for this program didn’t have to worry about that burden of staying unbeaken at Doak anymore. Look at our home record since that game. We hit rock bottom by not having a seasoned QB playing after Weinke left which shows bad recruiting. To expect Rix to come in and play like Weinke as freshmen was stupid. Of course start up the Jeff Bowden bashing at this point because all of you love to do it. Lets not forget we never groomed Jared Jones to become a starter for the Noles after Weinke. We simply had no direction after Weinke. Plus this is the time our defense started to show signs of vunerablilty and not close out games.
Remember back in the 90’s in the second half of games when FSU defense would play lights out and not give up anymore big plays? Remember the great half time adjustments? That stopped after 01.
I really think losing Ronnie Cottrell hurt our program a lot after 97, because it caught up to us in 01 and beyond. We were no longer brining in guys who wanted to play for our program, rather stud players who wanted to play for themselves and move on as soon as possible. We started recruiting character issued athletes.
I agree our program became arrogant after 1999. We had everything. I nice brand new stadium, started adding tons of self indulgent sculptures and art work around the stadium.
The list can go on and on about why FSU fell and was Bobby at fault for some of it? Yes. At the end of the day though it’s the players we had playing for us since 2000 who bare a good portion of the responsibility for our fall. Everything from not playing well, to missing class, sleeping in, injuries, law troubles etc…………. The problems which have really hurt us in the lack of character from some of our players since 00.
I think the main thing people here are pissed about.....
Is the fact that BB disregarded going after the best assistants with the most up-to-date schemes for, well, family & friends. People are pissed because while UF was bashing in skulls we had one thumb in our mouth & one thumb up our butt rotating them every now & again. You can say hindsight is 20/20 and you wouldn’t be incorrect. However, we never acted boldly(to say hire young fresh assistants etc who were considered to be at the top of their respective game) We fell this far behind when it was unnecessary and people spent good money on a product that simply wasn’t delivered. Athletes came here and weren’t given the best coaching. Promises were made and broken. Therefore we’re “On to the next one”. Bobby’s a legend and will be remembered as such, but you cant look at part of someones time. That won’t tell the whole story.
I disagree again
Everything within a football program is ultimately the fault of the head coach. He is the executive in charge. This program was headed down hill the moment Jeff Bowden was hired. Many of us inherently understood this immediately. The FSU president at the time Sandy D’Alemberte should never have allowed it. It was against the law and he is probably somewhere laughing about it now.
Jeff Bowden had no earthly idea how to run a D-1 college offense. After Bobby Bowden and Jeff literally held up the boosters for half a million dollars, the bottom line is nobody has shown any interest in Jeff Bowden as a coach. He is coaching for free right now with his brother at NA. His brother by the way who was making statements in the press to buy out Jimbo Fisher, the only bright spot this program has seen in 8 years.
This is not a family business, it is FSU. Some of the moves I have seen lately from the Bowden family may preclude any of them from ever coaching at a top flight D-1 program again. Schools may feel once you hire them you can’t get rid of them and they can’t keep their wives from popping off to the media on top of that, wives who have no idea what they are even talking about. Yeah I am talking about Ann. She sounds like she is leading some back woods political rally.
At any rate it all falls back on the coach. If you want better players you recruit better players. You look into their character, you don’t sit on your azz and hire no name coaches and old buddies to run the program because hey he is a good old fellow and we get along. You don’t use a major University as a spring board to promote incompetent family members.
I am glad the whole thing is almost over.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
I am going to disagree
I think Jeff had the credentials to come in and do what others had done before him. It simply didn’t work out though. If it had been up to me Jeff would have been fired in 04, rather than 06. To Jeff’s defense about his hiring he was next in line at the time based on the way it had been handled in the past. By your opinion Mark Richt should have never been given the job once he got it in 1994.
1993: Brad Scott leaves for South Carolina
1994: Mark Richt takes over.
2001: Jeff Bowden who was WR coach from 94-00 is promoted just like Richt and others had been in the past.
It simply didn’t work out. Who else on the offensive coaching staff at the time should have been given the offensive coordinator job? Other than an outsider which is what many of you wanted who else was up for the job? Sexton, Higgins?
That still doen't explain the mystery hire of Dexter Carter
a man with ZERO coaching experience. Or, for that matter, keeping Jody Allen on staff all these years? Or bringing back and KEEPING CTC when it was obvious to even a casual observer that he was phoning it in.
On a side note: the knot-heads at NCSU’s pack-pride board still labor under the delusion that CTC is an amazing So. Fl. recruiter. LOL!
The fact is this new millinium nightmare is going to end in about 10 days and it won’t have to dominate the discussion here at TN anymore. Thank God!!
Skirting the issue
Doc didn’t say he had no qualifications, he said he had no idea how to run the offense and that the hiring was illegal. It is humorous to me that people like to say that because we were so good that we were bound to suck for a while. College teams don’t go from all word to sucking because of fate. They do it because of either staff turnover and/or probation. Without those two things winning breeds winning in CFB because wins make the best kids want to play for you. Fielding a team full of the best kids in turn wins you games. Nobody is saying we should have kept the top 5 streak going, but there is no reason for FSU to fall as far as we have. UF, USC, LSU and several other top programs have had single digit win seasons recently, but they then jump back up to the top. We can’t even win our damn division.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 23, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
The ACC is so bad right now a team could win it by accident
and like you wrote FSU can’t even win the Atlantic Division
No one from inside, the in-bred hiarchy thing was part of the problem!
BB should have hired someone from outside. He could have gotten anyone he wanted at that time; elite level OC/offensive mind if he would have even half-way tried.
I don't blame BB for giving Jeff the OC spot.
He had a history of promoting his own assistant coaches. I blame him for not firing him once he knew he couldn’t do the job. That was the beginning of the excuse maker BB has been for the past 10 years.
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
That's why I blame BB
He hired someone he couldn’t fire regardless of the outcome. There was a conflict of interest from the beginning that could have been avoided. Was Jeff qualified? Yes. Should he have been hired? No. Nearly everything BB did from that point on hurt more than it helped and was so irresponsible that it made fair-minded people question his motives.
"We'll win games with talent. We'll win championships with character."
-Jimbo Fisher
by FloridaStateJay on Dec 23, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Here is what you do
You begin taking applications. Norm Chow could have been interviewed at the time and others of his stature. You do what Fisher is doing now, you inquire about Kirby Smart, Greg Hudson or a Mark Stoops and you get the best coach you can find, not your son uncle or brother which is against the law anyway.
It didn’t work out because Jeff is an incompetent. Daryl Dickey, Jeff Bowden and Kevin McHale, well nobody wants to hire them, with of course the exception of NA where Jeff is working for free. The storied programs of the day are not beating their doors down. Why not if they know how to coach?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Its really hard to stomach that we could have had coaches the calibur of a Norm Chow
if BB had tried.
God, what could have been!?!?!
I will go you one better
They day Bowden suggested he was going to hire Jeff and he would quit if he didn’t get his way is the day he should have been told it has been nice having you around, hit the road bud. He even had the audacity to tell the media it is a good thing I want this job like some spoiled kid. Unfortunately for FSU he did want the job. On top of that he suggested his critics were play station all americans and ebay people. I have seen people on play station and ebay with better offenses than Jeff Bowden.
At present FSIU quarterbacks are progressing, under Bowden they were regressing. This is pretty simple concept.
Further more while Wetherell was on vacation in Montana Bowden was on the phone to WVU pimping Terry Bowden for the job and telling them he would help with recruiting. It would be nice if he would have been helping FSU recruit because his classes during this period were not very good. Trickett and Fsher had to run a bunch of them off.
I wonder who gave Bobby permission to get on the horn anyway and call WVU with the president out of town? Does anyone here have any idea? I sure wonder about it. Not only that BB didn’t like the idea of WVU showing more interest in Fisher than Junior. I personally think he is still on a high horse about and it may be why he asked the boosters to buyout Jimbo. Can you imagine that, the offensive coordinator of the year and few of the bright spots, BB wants to buy them out and run them off?
January can’t get here fast enough for me and this chapter can be closed.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
If my memory serves Amato brought in Chow when he went to NC State.
How is promoting Jeff illegal?
I agree about McHale he was a bad choice. I’m still waiting for the mystery behind Higgins being let go after 04 to be solved.
Also I guess Jeff was also incompetent when he coached all those FSU greats at WR too huh. If we could go back in a time machine and look at the situation in the present then not know what we know now it made perfect sense to promote Jeff. It simply didnt’ work out for numerous reasons.
1. Jeff didn’t have a redshirt Jr. QB to run whatever offense he wanted to run in 01. Mark at least had Kannell who had been in the system a while.
2. Our opponents simply caught up to us and stopped fearing us.
3. The expansion of the ACC didn’t help either.
4. Like I said I think Jeff should have gone in 04 right around the time Zook left Florida. Remember Florida was not doing so hot after Spurrier left from 02-04.
5. At the end of the day I look at the quality athletes and situations that Richt had when he took over in 94 and compare them to what Jeff had in 01.
A. Both had new QB’s who were going to be compared to greats before them. Ward and Wienke. Richt wins because he has better athletes and a seasoned QB.
B. Jeff loses for the very reasons Richt was sucessfull.
1: Jeff was OC for several years, through several QBs and they all got worse as they got older. Not having a rd JR the first year doesn’t hold up when the offense gets worse year after year.
2: The rest of the ACC catching up to FSU is a joke. FSU was able to beat any team in the nation. No other team in the ACC has been close to that level of play. The conference didn’t progress, FSU just regressed.
3: Expansion didn’t really hurt FSU. We already played UM every year anyway. BC isn’t a powerhouse and we don’t have to play VT yearly. non factor.
5. It is not about one year with JB, it is about the entire run. And Rix’s Freshman year he set all kinds of records at FSU. After that year people thought he would end up as the next great QB at FSU. The problem is he never got the coaching to improve. The rest of the offense was every bit as talented as FSU was used too. Weren’t Boldin and Jones on the 01 squad?
by osceolafan850 on Dec 23, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Dickey was equally clueless as a QB coach
Think of the talent that was wasted.
Somewhere Chris Rix, Sr. is still shouting in anger.
Nepotism is a FL law and Sandy wanted to use it to stop BB from hiring JB
but BB threatened to resign and cause a public stink so the Admin relented an ta-da the Jeffrey era began
Docholiday
Are you basing your posts on facts or opinions? You seem to have some sort of big brother camera inside the head of Bobby Bowden.
Then I guess Jeff shouldn't have been hired in 94?
Are you talking about hiring or promotions when it comes to Florida law? I’ve lived in Florida all my life and have never heard of such a law.
Its a state law pertaining to state jobs which FSU is as a state school, ie not private like
Miami.
Jeffrey’s hiring caused a very strange structure chart to be created wherein he reported not to BB, but to another coach on the staff. The whole situation was wierd.
sll1728, you are absolutely right. Jeff should have never been hired in 1994 because this was in direct conflict and violated the State of Fla. Nepotism laws.
However, this conflict and issue was skirted by having Jeff report directly to Mark Richt, who had just been promoted to OC from QB coach when Brad Scott left after winning the NC, instead of reporting to Bowden. It was all a ploy to skirt the law.
Then when Bobby wanted Jeff as the OC, the Nepotism issue was again resurrected because now Jeff would be reporting directly to Bobby.
That is my .02 on that issue, on which I do consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable.
As far as the rest of this debate, I will let the rest of you rehash this history over and over while I look forward to being there to witness the end of a legends era, and hopefully the beginning of a new legends era.
BTW-good job on everyone’s part to keep this civil and lively, even though everyone here is passionate and has strong feelings on both sides of the argument. This is what makes TN so special and enjoyable. I guess it is only appropriate that since today is December 23, the official Festivus Day, you should be allowed the traditional “Airing of Grievances.” However there will be no “Feats of Strength” allowed on this site.
Happy Festivus Day everyone.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Richt had better athletes because he recruited better athletes
Jeff was shown to be severely lacking as a football coach when Richt’s recruits ran out. Severely lacking is being extremely kind I might add. I did not use the term possibly border line retarded.
There is more to coaching than throwing players out on the field to lose and then telling them you should have done better with no other explanation and that is exactly many players accuse Jeff of doing.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
We could have had a Norm Chow quality coach instead we got jump ball in the corner
of the end zone to a basketball player in shoulder pads.
“Its a High-School Offense” – P. T. Willis. That comment got him fired by BB even though it was true.
Richt was not allowed to recruit his own offensive athletes?
Please tell me you are not serious. Trickett is the offensive line coach are you seriously saying he does not find his own players?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Speaking of Willis
He would have been a better offensive coordinator than Jeff. If the new coaching staff wants to win the hearts and minds of FSU fans they will hire him back as a broadcaster.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
I long for P.T.'s analysis over Floyd's "Chop it Up Seminoles." With all due respect to William, I agree that P.T. should be brought back, but I doubt it will happen.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
No what I’m saying is Richt was not head recruiter during his time at FSU. Cotrell was from 90-97. Most of the top quality players we got during a dynasty came from him.
After he left for Alabama I think you can see the quality goes down over time.
Actually, the guy that replaced Ronnie as Recruiting Co-ordinator
did a great job. Won a few awards in fact. I can’t remember his name right now.
However, ALL coaches must recruit. Obviously, you need a good recruiting co-ordinator to organize the strategy, but all GOOD coaches must evaluate and recruit.
Name slips past me too, but he left to join Richt staff a few years ago. I still say we might have had good recruiting classes, but many players never panned out and fit into the system we were running at the time. Too many character issues off the field.
The quality went down when Richt left
And Jeff had to recruit his own players. If you can’t evaluate and recruit players you are not much good to a football team. Coley is the recruiting coordinator now do you think he told Jimbo I want you to go up to Virginia and sign E. J. Manuel, that is going to be your new quarterback in the future?
If you follow FSU football at all you would know Fisher pinpointed Manuel not the recruiting coordinator. When Jimbo spots a new quarterback he goes and offers him a scholarship not Coley the recruiting coordinator.
Playrs did not pan out because Jeff could not locate players and he had no system.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Don’t lecture me okay. I have been an FSU fan for over 20 years. I know the E.J. story.
So players from 01-06 bare no responsibility whatsoever for losing games? Your blind hatred for Jeff is troubling. I guess it was Jeff’s fault when our defense couldn’t get lined up on the ball against Clemson in 2006 which allowed Clemson to score the game winning TD right?
I blame Jeff for many of our offensive problems, but I also see many other deciding factors going into the equation that you are simply OVERLOOKING!!! You are taking the easy way out and saying it was all Jeff’’s fault this and that. I will never buy that rationale. I didn’t in 06 and I still don’t today. One person did not bring down the deck of cards. Did he help bring it down? Yep. Was he the only reason? Nope and until you realize that fact then get ready for future dissapointments when it comes to FSU football, but don’t worry I’m sure blaming Jeff Bowden and his father will be a legitimate excuse for the next decade or so, but count me out on that.
Good luck Jimbo and the new staff and good luck players.
Frankly, most of us at TN are sick of belly aching about the PAST.
BB is DONE at FSU in about 10 days and we can all move on. I’m sure the BBU guys will troll through here from time to time, but the Bowden era is OVER.
JB=Gone, BB=Gone, AB’s big mouth=Gone. In ten days we get to hit the reset button.
LET THE NEW YEAR COMMENCE!!
2010 here we come
Diablo, Nice. I agree, but how about
LET THE JIMBO ERA COMMENCE!!
instead.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Ha
So if someone doesn’t follow the herd Diablo2 then we are trolls? Figures.
Troll comment wasn't directed at you.
I was referring to the Warchant guys that come over here from time to time and try to hijack a thread.
You can spot those guys a mile away because BB is the ONLY thing they will post about.
They will usually start with the peronal insult pretty quickly as well.
Like I wrote before, all of this is over in 10 days. We can all move on to discussions of actual news (ie football).
sll1728 and all others, please use the reply button when you are replying to someone. It keeps the thread manageable and easier to follow.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
bb
look at espn today
Bobby gloating over the fact that noone will ever know if he could fight back and win
we are suppose to care about him
nevermind fsu
that mentality is so fugly
Pride goes before a fall and Bowden has overestimated his worth for many years
He enjoyed his godlike status
Now he can enjoy his life, which he has always said would be over when he stopped coaching
Honestly if the person cant find a reason to live without coaching, he doesnt deserve to
NO, he is the supreme manipulator and today on espn you see it again
He is going to make it as nasty as he can..
I have no respect for someone that cannot appreciate the others that made something happen.
He wasnt the only one involved..
the sooner he learns that the better
to be fair he never said he wouldnt enjoy his life without coaching, or that it would kill him to not coach
he has, however, talked about his father passing a year after he retired, and The Bear passing a month after he retired (i may have the 2 time periods switched around, either way…). He just drew a comparison but never said he would die, or he wanted to or anything like that. his quote was something along the lines of “ive always said theres only one big event left after you retire”
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 23, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
I never said it was all Jeff's fault
9 years of failure falls into the lap of the head coach and that is Bobby Bowden. That is why he was run off. Some felt 9 nine years of poor recruiting, poor hiring of assistants, rail roading well thought of former players like Peter Tom Willis into the unemployment lines for pointing out junior had a high school offense, recruiting for WVU and trying to finagle prodigy into football jobs, wives and kin who try and speak for FSU to the media and failure on the football field were quite enough.
This was compounded by retard assistants who tried to undermine Fisher and Trickett and epitomized when Bowden went to the boosters trying to buyout Jimbo Fisher, the one bright spot of the program for five million dollars that are need for an indoor practice facility, not to shore up Ann’s bad investments in beach condos that will soon be underwater and are virutally valueless. Terry Bowden ran his mouth and became visible in the process by replying in a media interview concerning Fisher, “well pay the man”.
This in effect seemed to imply the whole family were in on the backwoods plot.
I don’t want Bobby to go away mad, I just want him to go away! Have you heard the news, Greg Hudson is the new linebacker coach. I feel sure now our linebackers will run and tackle the guy with the ball instead of running away from them like some of our boys in the past have seemed to do.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
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