Scouting Notebook: Under Armour All-America Practice Day 1 Notebook of Florida State Recruits, and other observations.
[Photos added to the bottom of the story] Today is the first day of the Under Armour All-America game practices at Wide World of Sports in Orlando, FL. The practices will take place today, tomorrow, and Friday and will be broadcast on ESPNU. The game will be played on Saturday at 11 A.M. on ESPN. I will be providing coverage from the practices the next two days as well as the game, focusing on the 5 players that are connected to Florida State as a target or current commit. The first installment is my "scouting observations" from day one. Part two later today will include interviews with LaMarcus Joyner and Christian Jones. Part three will be a transcribed Q and A with Corey Lemonier tomorrow, and another scouting notebook tommorrow night after I drive back to Tallahassee.
LaMarcus Joyner:
The first thing you notice about Joyner are his freakish measurables. His arms hang extremely low, however he is still built throughout his entire upper half. While he is on the short side, in no way does it look like he doesn't belong on the same field as the other DBs. Joyner has been designated to play CB in this game which is exciting, because he has primarily played safety the past two years. I have been one to say that I thought he would end up at safety because of his raw hitting ability.
In agility drills Joyner showed his quick burst from his lower half and excellent hip fluidity. He looked like an elite prospect in these areas. Joyner struggled mightily to hold on to the ball the entire day. Many of the drills revolve around making breaks and then receiving the ball at the end. He was coached on how to catch the ball a few times, and he also muffed on kick when he was back working as a punt returner. However in each drill he completed them smoothly and quickly showing the type of body movements that make him an elite prospect.
In one on ones Joyner really showed what he could do. Regularly Joyner jammed and stayed with each receiver that he lined up with. The big thing that he does well is that anytime a receiver might have a step on him he is able to recover and transition. Any half step wrong and his athleticism puts him right back in position. Kadron Boone (Texas Tech) and Antonio Goodwin were blanketed in one on ones. The only time he was beat in one-on-ones was when Kenny Shaw made a beautiful cut to free himself. Again in the team portion Joyner looked great, even though he was only thrown at twice, neitehr was completed. Once he made the biggest WR there (Brandon Coleman) go up high for a ball and was able to knock it away as Rogers fell.
- Joyner came on during warmups doing the chop
- Chris Dunkley and his highly anticipated matchup didn't happen because Dunkley pulled up with a hamstring injury and was unable to compete the rest of the day.
My first thought when I saw Christian Jones up close was "wow that kid is huge", for a LB he is just incredibly impressive physically. There were two players on the White (Blur) team that everyone looked at and thought were ready to step onto a college field and play tomorrow. Christian Jones and Da'Rick Rogers. In agility drills he showed that he is capable of moving his great frame. I believe more than ever that he can play OLB and play it well after watching him go through drills.
However, Christian really shined in 7on 7s and the team portion of the practices. 5* RB Michael Dyer is a freight train going through the hole, however on one particular play CJ met him about 2 yeards off the line of scrimmage and quickly took him to the ground with a big hit. not 30 minutes earlier he was out in space playing the pass and was able to read the ball off the QBs hands and make a near interception. He was impressive all day. I expect that if he is able to perform like this the next two days he will have no problem moving into the 5* status on everyones board.
- CJ stated that he is 6'4'' 228 lbs the last time that he weighed.
Jeff Luc:
Jeff was very hard to evaluate today. We've written about his physical presence before, and he is extremely impressive physically. In drills he didn't fly through them the way that Jones did. When they all lined up he was making calls, directing traffic and looked like a natural leader on defense. Luc is clearly a Mike LB, as he is very compact and his brute strenth from his arms allow him to wrap up and carry blockers and runners backwards.
In the one on one hitting drills he repeatedly knocked the other LBs backwards. However this is Lucs strength. In 7 on 7s and the team portion of practice he wasn't able to shine at all. Most of the plays were run away from him, he looked slightly apprehensive in pursuit and didn't have any really great hits. In coverage he was passable. Many knock his stiffness, and while he did show that he isn't a candidate to be matched up one on one with CJ Spiller any time soon, he can be good enough in pass coverage to make his strenths a plus for the team. I hope that tomorrow he is able to be more active, and that drills allow him to participate more.
Kenny Shaw:
Shaw was just added to the Under Armour All America game in the last week, as he was going through some injury problems to his groin. He's actually not in the media guide and many didn't know who he was at first. As far as his physical form, there is much to be desired we know that he is a lean, wiry kid. This is probably the reason that he came into the year as a 3* WR out of Dr. Phillips High School. He had a fantastic senior season and has shot up the rankings.
In the initial warm up drills Shaw looked extremely smooth, looking over each shoulder with similar ease and catching the ball with one or two hands without a problem. If there is a WR in the country who gets out if his initial break better than Shaw I'd like to see him. In 1 on 1s it was the kenny Shaw show. Every time he lined up, and I counted 6 times, he found himself open. He ran hitches, outs, posts, and go routes. Each time he was able to get open. The reason? This kid runs absolutely elite routes. He is smooth in and out of every break, uses his head to get CBs to lean, and has excellent feet to stop on a dime. By the end of drill there was a buzz with on lookers and some of the junior combine participants about how well he was playing. The biggest receipient of Shaw's moves was Georgia Tech commit Ryan Ayers who struggled all day.
-Kenny told me that he has a full clean bill of health for his groin and is back to 100%
- He also said that he is excited to end the process on January 2 at the game, and it has kind of become a "heart ache". I can tell he is ready to announce.
Corey Lemonier:
I have to be honest the player I was most excited to see play this week is Corey Lemonier. Luc and Joyner are committed, Shaw and Jones seem to be heavy leans, but Lemonier's recruitment is still in the air. I was excited to see a top 5 player in the state at a position of need (Defensive End) play. In defensive line drills you could see that Corey is extremely competiitive, he blew past his fello DL who tried to block him at the end of the high knees, yet he worked hard to try and block him. Corey is a little small to play college right away. I don't mean short, he towers over me easily at 6'4'', but for a DE you notice that he was slight of build. He needs to add some weight as he is only about 230 lbs. That didn't stop him from putting on a great performance.
In the 1on1 drills with the OL it got very competitive and scrappy. Corey put on a show when he was matched up with Chaz Green of Tampa Catholic. Corey used his hands extremely well and was able to keep Chaz off of him getting to the QB the first time. The next time Lemonier dropped his right shoulder and did an outside speed rush. He was able to get under Chaz's pad level and turn upfield and get to the QB once again. In the team portion of the practice Lemonier was hit and miss. He was able to record a sack in one situation. However, it did become clear that he has some work to do when he isn't able to get up the field outside. He has a good arsenal of moves that need to be tweaked, and adding weight will allow guys like Ja'waun James from turning him inside with brute strength at the next level.
Other observations:
- Auburn is getting a great one in Michael Dyer( RB ,Little Rock, AR). He had a good day, he put a big hit on Tennessee commit Michael Taylor (LB, Atlanta, GA) but Taylor was able to drag him down. Dyer then continued to scream "you better bring some help next time" over and over to Taylor as he left the field.
-UGA commit Alec Ogletree (S, Newnan, GA) also had a very nice day in the team portion of practice. He pursues very well to the ball and wraps up. He is also very impressive physically.
- Karlos Williams was on the sideline watching practice and wearing FSU workout shirt and shorts.
- Myron Rolle, who works out with Tom Shaw at Wide World of Sports was there and talked with many of the young children on the sideline for an extended amount of time.
-Da'Rick Rogers (WR, Douglasville, GA) was the most impressive prospect on this day between size, speed, and route running.
- Todd Chandler (DT, Miami, FL)flashed an extremely good get off of the line.
- JaWuan James (OT, Suwannee, GA) from Georgia (UT commit) played well on the Offensive line, as did OT James Hurst.
- The best of the non FSU-related players included DE William Gholston, DT Louis Nix, DT George Uko, and WR Kadron Boone, among those not yet listed. CB Joshua Shaw (UF commit) was extremely physical and showed elite athleticism.
Jeff Luc and Christian Jones look on to some of the action
Kenny Shaw seperates from a CB in drills
LaMarcus Joyner in a WR hip pocket
Jeff Luc romes the sideline
Corey Lemonier goes through a drill
LaMarcus Joyner eyes a pick in the DB drills
Joyner and Jones chat it up as the second unit gets some work.
Jones and Luc line up before a snap
Chris Dunkley will choose between UF, Bama, and UGA January 2nd, he had a hamstring injury that held him up today.
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sounds like Shaw played great
He’s looking better and better each day.
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 30, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Great stuff man
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 30, 2009 6:05 PM EST reply actions
for free...this site is for free
the best nole news on the web….as always thanks guys
Incredible isn't it?
This site rocks.
Chop it up Seminoles!
by horsepowernole on Dec 30, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see…….I’m soo glad that I found this site…You fellow NOLES ARE AMAZING!!!!!!!
Tomahawk Nation RULES!!!!!!
NSD
Co-conductor of the "Kirby Smart for DC 2010" Train!!!!
by NoleThruandThru on Dec 30, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Last I heard it will be at NSD
But really NSD is so close now that it really doesn’t make much difference to me. I hope we can pull Corey though. We need at least one good DE this class and 2 or 3 next class.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 30, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
great work guys!
thanks for all the info you guys put out there. quality work. i hope shaw and c. jones are coming. we need to get elam on board, too.
Been a long time...
Since I’ve been this excited for the upcoming FSU season! Its kind of a strange feeling after all this time lol
I'm hoping our guys do some recruiting. It'd be nice if Joyner & Luc could convince Jones to commit to FSU already.
Great job!
Thanks for making us feel like we’re there.
Can’t wait for next season!
Will be watching Gator Bowl and UnderArmour game this weekend!
Stay classy, Tallahassee!
C. Jones
Are we still confident he will choose us? What other schools is he looking at?
very confident
Miami, Tennessee and Notre Dame have about a 5% combined chance at him IMO
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 30, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Great stuff
This is excellent coverage, thank you.
I really hope we land C. Jones he looks like he could become a great Nole LB.
"No, like I said, Woo peed on my rug" - The Dude
Nice Job SWFLNole
I am new to this site and am very impressed with what you guys make available to us here. Great update and thanks for making the trip to Orlando!
Breaking!
http://www.sarasotaspeaks.com/node/55432
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Took me about 3 lines to see this wasn't a real story
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 30, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
The UF administration would probably beg to differ with you
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Would love for FOX to pick up the ACC contract
so that FOX news can report this stuff. They have the balls to do it too. Not a chance ESPN will pick it up.
Unsure of what you mean by it not being a real story. It may not be the AP, which simply means it is as credible as SWFLnole’s report on the UA practice above. By the way, nice job on the UA coverage. The Urbie report is just sayin’ that it has unconfirmed sources. There are still quotes from Utah admins etc. Believe what you will. I’m believin’ this story. Happy New Year!!!
He was referencing the article Doc linked and didn't reply to the previous post.
By the way… Kenny Shaw has the same stature as Marvin Harrison. See other similarities there or is this a stretch?
yeah, I've said the same thing, he definately has that Harrison, Issac Bruce
wirey build, but I don’t think he’s got Marvin’s speed. He was running 4.3’s at the NFL combine the year he was drafted. I’ve always heard Kenny described as more quick than fast.
I've mentioned this before but the comparison I make for Kenny Shaw is
WR Steve Smith (NYG not Carolina) in that he is very quick, runs great routes and has great hands. May not win any races, and isn’t the most physical of players but will make the catch when you need it.
Will be interested to see how his blocking comes along – probably won’t get a great indication of it this week as All-Star games are a notoriously bad place to evaluate players in general (not limited to football), but looking for fundamentals is what I’ll be doing on Sat.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Great comparison Rishi
Steve was regarded higher nationaly as the “experts” thought he could also be an elite CB prospect but their games do sound similar. Sean Bailey was another guy who came to mind (before knee injuries) but he may have been a bit faster than Shaw.
great to hear about Kenny
I’ve heard what a excellent route runner and was glad to see it hold true against top flight speed and comp. Much like Brice Butler i’ve heard he’s more quick than fast and uses his tremendous route running skills to gain seperation on CB’s. I always worry will it carry over and hold true when guys that are more on the quick side than the fast side go up against better more atheletic competiton.
Why do I think there would be a jewel incrusted cane and a chalice
in the young man’s hands if the camera could pan out far enough?
It'd be nice to get some updated measurables on these guys.
ESPN has many of their 40’s, shuttles, etc here, but they are compiled from UA combines throughout the year. I’d love to see new ones that were all from the same day, same surface, same timing equipment, etc since the season is over. I know the 40 time and shuttle aren’t the end all stats, but for kicks it’s nice to see where these guys stand now. Hopefully at least ESPN will show new height/weight for each player. At this point, height and weight are probably more important for evaluating these recruits than the drill stats.
I’ll be more excited about Christian Jones than any other commit this year probably if we do land him. On his Rivals profile they have him nearly “blue chip” in each category. He would be a level 99 warrior if he was in a computer game.
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/343578/021_21.jpg
is this trick photography? i knew joyner was big, but i didnt know he was THAT big
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
hmmm that didnt work....
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 31, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
ahhh i see now...for some reason i thought joyner was #7....did he wear that in HS maybe? or im making it all up in my head....
"Don't flinch, let's kill a fly with an Axe."
by NorFla_Nole on Dec 31, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
No Deas is big, real big
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Deas
Is there any news on Deas? I haven’t heard anything about him in a while. Also, his teammate Johnnie Dixon. I had heard there was interest with Dixon but haven’t heard anything further. Does anyone know about these two?
Possibly ask on the Recruiting Big Board page.
But last I heard no one was expecting him. Sad. Hopefully he graduates in the spring.
Just think of all the great south park jokes that will now be relevant
Because of Kenny.
Great article!
Well, gosh, it's a weight off of everybody. I think everybody that is an FSU fan or a coach or a player, this takes a weight off the shoulder. But what does that mean? Seven more days of peace?
Great to read that about Jones' size
I’m glad to see he’s been able to maintain growth since the spring as often players lose a lot of weight they put on prior to season. Listed at 210-215 in other databases, so putting on ~15lbs after those reports is a good sign.
In addition with that frame, by the time he leaves he’ll be pushing 250. Makes me happy to see. Love that he’s got such a wide frame/base/broad shoulders already as a lot of times guys need a year to get the right frame to put on weight before able to add any “good weight” – Jones’ frame is already there IMO.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Kenny Shaw
It was the opinion of one writer here on TN that Shaw should not have been recruited and was not a good prospect. I believe the quote was something to the effect that if the best thing to be said for his is his route running then we shouldn’t be recruiting him and he has reached his peak with his limited potential. I am interested…..has that opinion changed?
This quote...
TomahawkNation is not high on him, as he has limited potential. Do we really want to take a kid whose strength is “runs good routes”?
Runnig good routes
is not a bad quality to have if you ask me…..Im sure he can catch, so I don’t know what more you can ask for…..everybody ain’t blessed with speed….the ability to get open, and catch is good…..I guess…
Quote from this exact article:
“In one on ones Joyner really showed what he could do. Regularly Joyner jammed and stayed with each receiver that he lined up with.”
“The only time he was beat in one-on-ones was when Kenny Shaw made a beautiful cut to free himself.”
You could be the greatest athlete in the world but to be a great receiver the 2 most important things are
A) Being able to catch the ball and look it in if its within reach
2) Running great routes to get separation
Truth is most big time programs will have their fastest players playing CB so even if your fastest player is a WR they will probably be just as quick as the man covering him. If the WR can run good routes and confuse the CB that means all that speed will be going to wrong way once the WR makes his cut and it will be harder for the CB to recover and more likely for a slip up.
That was from a long time ago
Before his senior season. Shaw made HUGE strides his senior year. I know some people on this site… either NTaT or SWFL said they were always a big Shaw fan. I think as of now everyone has come around on him, he’s a very good recruit.
Absolutely lighting it up against the best in the nation so far.
by tdchrisdavis on Dec 31, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I had shaw as the number 3 reciever in coming out of Florida
behind green and dunkley back in august. and SWFLnole and others thought it was laughable.
http://www.tharinger.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81&page=2
Has CJ ever had any past knee problems?
I asked becasue his brother Willie was basically done by his RSsoph year because of a deteriorating knee which was made far wosre in my opion by are coaches trying to “bulk” up a 6-1 215 pound kid with chronic knee problems to play DE (which made no damn sense to me) when he would have made a lethal rush LB. Also didn’t their father’s NFL career get cut short by knee problems?

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