How Will Jimbo Fisher Change Florida State?
With the retirement of legendary head coach Bobby Bowden, Florida State's program must make up for a decade of spinning its wheels. A lot of Florida State fans are left wondering what new head coach Jimbo Fisher will do to improve the program. How about listening to Fisher himself:
Fisher did a nice job on ESPN's gameday to show the proper respect for Bowden (which I have heard is genuine), and also hinting that he will follow Saban as Nick builds as good an infrastructure around his players, like Jimbo and him did at LSU and like Nick has done at 'Bama. This article will focus on that new infrastructure and practices that can get Florida State back on top faster than some might think.
For almost a decade, Florida State's actions were not those of a program attempting to play football at an elite level. And in a competitive multi-billion dollar industry, if you're not innovating and trying to get better, you're getting worse. Florida State fell behind on the field in large part because they had a coaching staff that just wasn't competent-- be that ability to coach or ability to work the 90-hour weeks required of elite coaches. But FSU also found themselves far behind the times in other areas that weren't as visible to the average fan. So, what changes can we expect under Fisher? Bowden and co. wouldn't let Fisher implement a lot of the changes he desired, but now FSU looks to be committed to winning. Expect Fisher to turn FSU into an SEC program. Hopefully this piece will help you to understand why FSU didn't make a real effort to compete over the last decade.
Playing the best players. This is pretty simple and we've already seen it on the offensive side of the ball as Fisher has repeatedly relied on freshmen and sophomores (7 of FSU's starting 11 players on offense are underclassmen) to produce the ACC's best offense of the decade. Expect Fisher to foster a culture of competitiveness. There will be no seniority preference. If anything, there may be a decided slant against seniority, if a younger player is as good as a senior.
Replacing departed assistant coaches with other quality coaches. This was a major bugaboo for Bowden and his hires in the decade were unquestionably terrible. Fisher has already hit two homeruns with James Coley and the recent hire of Eddie Gran. There's absolutely no chance you'll see Fisher hire former players who have zero coaching experience at any level.
Expect Fisher to put Florida State first and demand that other coaches do the same. They are all going to be paid extremely well and FSU should never tolerate its coaches missing events because they are napping or because they prefer to give speeches at events rather than visiting recruits when scheduled.
Increased accountability throughout the program. Fisher is a Saban clone and Saban is all about process, toughness, and accountability. Bowden flat refused to fire even the most worthless of coaches. Fisher shouldn't and won't care if a coach is a good family man if he is not performing his job to the level that Jimbo demands. The offense already does this, but look for the defense to prepare more like the offense before games, during practices, etc. Will be hearing from the defense that practice is more intense than the game itself (the true way to prepare for anything). The defensive players will have one coach who is definitively the man they report to- the defensive coordinator. A clearly defined leadership structure should help the defense a lot.
Expect FSU to keep better track of its players and utilize technology in a 21st century way.. Electronic keyfobs that track player's class attendance should be implemented. That way when a kid says he was in class, the staff can pull up the record on the computer and see exactly how long that player was in class. In addition, look for increased social media monitoring. Some of these kids have myspace and facebook profiles that are embarrassing to the university to say the least. This is a good example of something an 80-year old head coach just would not think of. Other ideas like loading game plans and notes on Video IPods for players should be expected.
Florida State's support staff should double, and maybe increase three-fold. It means every player gets more individual attention. Team psychologists (a certain champion SEC school has three on staff!). Lots of "video guys" who are actually performing some coaching function. The big programs now do this and the NCAA really can't do anything about it. The more manpower the better. Bowden didn't see the need for this and allowed FSU to fall behind because of his lack of evolution. Lots of turnover in the support areas of the program should be expected. I would look for FSU to release Andy Urbanic, who some believe has caused strained relationships with former players Fisher will need to reach out and bring back. Like many change agents, Jimbo will force his own clean slate. If a current employee hasn't clearly shown their worth, they could very well be gone.
I'd also look for major improvements in the areas of strength, conditioning, and nutrition. Todd Stroud, FSU's current S&C coach will be out. He's not a bad S&C coach, but FSU can definitely do better. Fisher wants someone in the mold of Tommy Moffit, from LSU, widely considered the gold standard in college strength and conditioning programs. A few months ago, we identified two possible guys from the Moffit system- one at WKU and one at SMU. Barring some miracle that sees FSU land Moffit himself, or Alabama's Scott Cochran (very doubtful), look for FSU to go after the SMU or WKU guy. In addition to that, FSU's nutrition program is horrible. Players routinely fail to put on the necessary bulk. While UF has multiple nutritionists on staff, FSU doesn't have a single nutritionist on staff. Florida and Alabama regularly conduct blood testing on their players to make sure they have the proper levels of protein, vitamins, etc. Gator and Tide players regularly receive an individualized vitamin and mineral concoction upon getting to the complex. That's not happening at Florida State. Another benefit of that blood testing is that it allows the support staff (again, FSU needs at least double the staff they currently have) is that it allows the program to detect drug use. Football players at all major D1 schools smoke a tremendous amount of weed. The trick isn't getting them to stop (not going to happen), but rather in getting them to cut back and stop before the tests. These drug tests allow the program to get these kids the required help they need in order to pass the "random" drug tests. Players at Bama and Florida each have a different mix of Gatorade that the staff mixes for them! Offensive lineman Walker might need 17g of sugar per 8oz serving but lineman Smith might need 10g per and a different electrolyte concoction. I'd also expect FSU to have a lot more "trainers" and medical staff on hand for all events to make sure that kids aren't slacking off.
I would also expect a lot of roster turnover. The 85 man scholarship limit is the great equalizer in college football. Any way of abusing the limit gives a program a distinct advantage. Many people don't realize, however, that scholarships are year-to-year agreements. They don't have to be renewed. Some old school coaches treated them like 4-year agreements (Bowden), but guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban do not. They play within the rules but take it to the limit. If a kid isn't developing as planned, don't look for him to be at Florida State the following season. This may upset you, but you have to decide whether you want to be an elite level program. Think of college ball as minor league football and it will make this much easier to stomach. There are exceptions, but there won't be any 4-year flops on the roster any longer. To that end, look for double-digit forced transfers in the first two years. this is pretty much a given. Lots of dead weight that hasn't been forced to work hard, especially on the defensive side. To go with the support idea, To go with the support staff idea above, look for more certainty in terms of which players will and will not be back due to a decrease in accidental academic casualties. More support staff means more one-on-one attention for the players. It means better monitoring of a player's academic progress. Having a better grasp on which players are not likely to return for next season due to academic ineligibility means that Fisher can cut players who just aren't buying into the program and developing. You should also look for Increased use of the medical disqualification scholarship. It's a great way to free up a roster spot for a kid who has an injury that would make it difficult for him to transfer. And opposed to cutting the player, this helps him finish his education. Again, roster manipulation.
In recruiting, you've already seen a big improvement as FSU, with just 5 of 9 coaches actively recruiting, has vaulted from the 37th best class the day Bowden retired to the 25th class. I won't discuss all the improvements made in recruiting since Fisher arrived (2 top 10 classes in 2 years), but one area that I would look for FSU to excel in is over-signing. Again, churning the roster, shedding that dead weight, and bringing in a lot of kids. FSU needs to abuse the ACC's lack of a maximum recruiting class size rule (the NCAA caps how many players you can enroll (25), but not how many you can sign. The SEC capped signings at 28. Houston Nutt signed 37 guys last year. The remaining guys either don't qualify, are sent to JUCO, or are otherwise dropped). I expect Fisher to sign so many kids each year that the ACC, like the SEC, will eventually impose the rule. This is an advantage FSU has on Florida right now and it needs to exploit it as hard as it possibly can until the ACC closes the loophole, which could take two to three years. This also helps FSU to improve their relationship with certain junior college programs, specifically those in Mississippi.
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264 comments
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Comments
This is great info but
How will FSU be able to up the support staff like SEC teams when they dont get the extra money like they do?
Is MA and the coaches we are losing going to hit the road and try to recruit and if they did would we even want them too.
how long tell we can get these dead weigh coaches out of here and get the new ones. in to talk to recruits.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
: )
Wonder what Moobs does all day now…..surf eBay?
It's a Business
Urban treats UF like a business, so does Saban at Bama. The sooner people realize this, the sooner people will stop being upset when players are cut, feelings are hurt and the overall professionalism of the coach is not lovable and friendly like the “good ol boys.”
Excited and Sad
It’s exciting because we can’t do anything but get better, but with my eighth grade son football player QB it scares me to think that if reaches elite level no sheninagans AT ALL. It’s hard to fathom a Coach coming to the house promising you that they will take care of your kid and make sure he gets an education and then cuts him or forces him to transfer. HARDBALL. Makes it more important than ever to recruit kids of character. I think I’ll go spank my kid right now, oh wait he’s already almost as tall as me and benches more than me even though he’s only 14. Maybe I’ll just reason with him instead and make him read this article!
It’s not different than many acedemic scholarships. Take the bright futures schollies for example. If you don’t earn enough credits during that semester you lose it.
It’s also good training for the real world. In your job if you don’t step up you get goned…well if your employer is paying attention that is.
Nice piece ...
I had no idea that we weren’t doing some of these things regarding nutrition, S&C, etc. I had a friend my last year at FSU (1998) that was very close to a freshman D lineman from Lake Butler that told him about some of the things they had to do, like take certain supplements, eat certain meals, etc., all tailored for him as an individual. I wonder if this was false or simply something we used to do during the glory days. Regardless, I am excited about the future. It’s long overdue and we have waited patiently for a new direction.
We do individualized weight plans regarding supplements/caloric intake/diet, etc however we don't do it at the same level of specificity that we should be.
365 days, until I change my ways.
You forgot to mention BBQ chicken took up 3 other days, and Sunday was of course burgers and sogs on the grill...
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
With biscuits & gravy? Mmmm.... Thanks to Ann.
I remember that good southern cookin’ from my undergrad days in Virginia. How can our guys not put on weight eating like that?
What is sad is I run 4-5 days a week and life weights
and I cant lose weight to save my life. I need to be the S&C coach I bet I could help the d-line gain weight both muc. and fat.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
How about Don Sommer?
He’s been the S&C coach at TCU since 2001. Everyone on the TCU roster, save for 3 players, can bench press 400lbs or more. Those guys don’t get pushed around much and I think it’s a big contributer to Gary Patterson’s success in Fort Worth.
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Maybe that's why there are rumors of Barnes going to become a Cock?
He heard Jimbo was getting rid of the homestyle southern cookin’ & thought he could do better at USCe?
I’m still bothered by the rumors yesterday, and the apparent silence today. I wish someone would give us the true scoop.
I also want to see crawdads on the menu.
With all the reffer they're smoking... you'd think the munchies would help the bulk.
Speaking of the munchies… how many Hot Fresh Now Krispy Kremes could a stoned Aubrey Phillips eat? Let’s talk in terms of dozens, please.
My head just exploded!
That was a great Monday morning breakfast! Excellent read FSUn! I really do not know anywhere else you can go to get information about any sport or team this in-depth.
With all of the extra staff, I would bet that not only will the academic situation improve, but the entire experience for a player at FSU. Our recruiting evaluation will get better as we target true talent. Our Academic support improves so we can keep embarrassing player incidents (i.e. Kevin McNeil) at a minimum. Our more individualized coaching, strength and nutritional treatment will minimize flops.
Your drug test section was hilarious! I guess the schools have just given up on the idea of kicking kids off the team for smoking pot. Too bad we didn’t think that way when Randy Moss was at FSU! It just goes to show you that you only have so much control these days. (Think of Carlos Dunlap’s DUI.) It’s a “Don’t Ask / Don’t Tell” policy where school officials can play dumb and have the tests to prove their “innocence”.
Great Stuff!
Go Noles!
p.s. “Bowden didn’t see the need for this and allowed FSU to fall behind because of his lack of evolution.” Coach Bowden is a Baptist! Don’t you be saying nothing ’bout no evolution and Coach B!
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
I'm just trying to say
“look, this is where we are at, and to get the results of those we compare ourselves to, this is just some of what we need to do”
I kid! I kid!
You know how Baptists are about the word “evil-ution”!
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
its ok Gonzo Ill pray for you tonight.
Please lord watch out for GonzoNole He knows not what he says talking about Baptists. He doesnt see the Baptists working with more modern ministries.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
BTW Im JK with ya man
dont want to make anyone mad about religious stuff
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Where is Dot.com? That should be a mandatory 30 day ban.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
haha! If you can't joke about religion...
I grew up in Jacksonville as a Presbyterian. I think we were officially considered a minority. But seriously,I love Baptists. In fact, I always invite more than one to my parties. Because if you invite just one, he’ll wipe out your beer in no time! :-)
It’s good to see an irreverent sense of humor on this site.
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
So, how much is the budget going to increase?
I know we’re way behind Florida here. Is this going to be a case where we implement these changes over two to three years, or are we going to be able to do it in an offseason?
by FSUGrad99 on Dec 7, 2009 9:32 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe Fisher was raising money for the infrastructure and not a coach.
by Legal_Seminole on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't there a rumor about a booster
ready to spring for the indoor practice facility if Bobby retired? I think that once the ship gets righted, that will be a real sign of how the Boosters are supporting the program.
Not to be an apologist, but....
Re: this assessment:
This was a major bugaboo for Bowden and his hires in the decade were unquestionably terrible.
I think you’ve got to give Bowden credit for Fisher, Trickett, and Dawsey, don’t you? While many of BB’s actions were destructive, I think it is somewhat redemptive that he did ultimately have a hand in bringing the people on board that will eventually right the ship.
Offensive hires
I guess you have to give Bobby props for listening to his kid and going with Fisher, but the rest of the hires were guys Jimbo wanted to come to FSU with him.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Before his officially start date yes
But they are guys Fisher wanted and/or came over because he was taking the job. But the same way our DC is said to basically be hired now and can tell Jimbo what he wants, Jimbo was coming over before he was hired and could tell Bobby what he wanted.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Here is a post I had a while back...Offer was withdrawn to Fisher after other 2 were hired. I assume you're speculating?
Coaching Staff Questions
This has always confused me a little so maybe somebody in the know can answer. The new offensive staff is always referred to as Jimbo’s staff, or the staff Jimbo brought with him. From what I remembered, and then researched. Jimbo wasn’t the first hire of 2007.
First announcement was Trickett on 1/04/07:
http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010407aad.html
Dawsey on 1/05/07:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2721664
Offer withdrawn to Fisher on 1/06/07
http://www.fanblogs.com/florida_state/006880.php
Fisher announced on 1/08/07:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2724432
Only Coley and Carter hired after Fisher (on 1/14/07 and 1/16/07 respectively):
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-01-16-notebook_x.htm
Edgar Bennet was Bowden's first choice.
And probably the best RB coach that also met the primary qualification: being a former FSU player under Bowden.
I’m just sorry that Marion Butts didn’t get a shot over Dexter.
I give credit to Bowden for Fisher that same way I give a child credit for taking their "yucky" medicine given him when they're sick...
The university had to force Bowden to hire him like you have to coax a child into taking their children’s Nyquil…lol
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
by NaGaNole on Dec 7, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Coach-In-Waiting Plan vs. Fisher
I think Fisher had all the right qualities for Bowden. Family ties, southern accent, proper respect to Bowden, etc. We just got lucky that Fisher was actually able to coach (unlike his defensive hires). It was the whole idea of a coach in waiting that chaffed him.
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
Agreed..He was almost "too Bowdenlike", but I think we'll see the differences outlined here very soon.
Yes! Fisher even says "Dadgum!"
Which makes me think of this guy:

http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
What Jody Allen lacks in coaching ability
he totally makes up for with country accent and southern tendencies.
by The K-Man on Dec 7, 2009 12:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
so hes like the cajun coach from the water boy
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Dec 7, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
These arguments appear to be double standards.
The buck truly stopped with him at the time. Yes, he had to be forced to remove JB, but after that, I do sincerely believe it was his ultimate decision to bring Fisher & Co. on board. Don’t look at it through the lens of this season, even…. he was still the guy in charge at the time.
You have to evaluate separately. JB hire and insistence on not replacing were both failures. But once gone, there were many options available for a replacement, and he seemingly made a very good choice. There are many, many major programs that have been forced by fan outrage to replace a coordinator against the coaches desires, but many have failed in multiple attempts to replace with the right guy.
Not sure if the buck was really stopping with him, if so he would've fired JB himself, not have Hart begging for him to step down himself
Hell, the buck still wanted JB to stay on as the OC, the buck had obviously lost his mind.
Which illustrates precisely that the buck did stop with him.
When the AD has to beg the coach, does that not tell you who was in charge? Again, the whole JB ordeal was a gross failure, but it was his failure… in much the same way that Fisher can be credited to him as a success.
I don’t think he had “lost his mind” so much at that point as he was blinded by loyalty.
Jimbo was his choice as a recomendation from his son who coached with Jimbo before
You are right we should credit him with hiring Jimbo. We are just lucky that the administration made Bobby agree with the HCIW (Head Coach in Waiting) deal to bring him over or else he would be the OC at Bama with Saban right now.
Your schedule is a little mixed up.
Jimbo was the OC here in 2007 without being HCIW.
The HCIW deal came following the 2007 season when it appeared likely that Jimbo would head to West Virginia.
I know it was rumored that Saban offered him while we were originally courting him ...
not sure about the year after.
so yea the fact that he passed up joining Saban to take the same position at FSU
makes me even more worried that he might trust Satan’s opinion too much on Sunseri. I am not sold at all on the guy. No doubt he is as good of a position coach you will find but the transition to DC is a big step for some one that has been just an assistant for that long. lets hope FSUncensored’s gut feeling of Smart being the guy is correct
Remember Saban's deal? He knew that he could turn this thing around and be the front runner for the HC position.
Jimbo has had positive things to say about Saban the whole time he has been here. Not just now.
I know he has its not Jimbo who scares me. Satan however is a snake
Can never take that man for his word. Ask Dolphin fans.
Sunseri was "just" an assistant in the NFL for like 7 years
Let’s not act like NFL and college assistants are on the same level.
FSUn isn’t basing the Smart call on his gut. His sources, who told him about the Bobby retirement, are apparently saying Smart. We’ll see.
No saying that NFL job is slack at all
Didn’t mean to come off that way and since Jimbo has done everything right to this point, I am in no way qualified to go against whoever he hires. I would just be more comfortable with someone that has DC experience already in their resume. And yea I hope FSUn’s sources are right again.
I see Jimbo hire Coley and Gran for the offense
And expect him to make the right hires on defense, too.
If anything, the UF game helped
The announcers barely mentioned Smart. They mentioned him a few brief times in passing, but the whole game they were talking about Nick Saban’s defense, if you want to play defense for Nick Saban …, Nick Saban blah blah blah.
Kirby isn’t getting media recognition at Bama.
Here we go again...
insert boiler plate response here
The ONLY reason Terry selected JImbo was because he thought JF was "controllable"
i.e….they could trust him not to undermine BB like some other ambitious non-Bowden OC’s might be prone to do.. Bowden mentioned how important it was to have someone he could “trust” when Richt left. The program stopped caring about winning and was only concerned with keeping Bowden in power surrounded by sycophants.
That's complete hyperbole.
Fisher came in carrying a lot of weight; HC credentials by some standards. Bobby Bowden did certainly want someone of his mold — holding similar values — but he also wanted someone that could win.
Fisher
was a proven OC with unparalleled ties to the family who could also be trusted. I think you have a good point in saying that he was a Bobby hire. But I think you go too far in saying it was all Bobby.
After finally getting rid of Fredo, and paying him 500K to leave to boot, the Boosters wouldn’t have let Bobby make a hire they didn’t agree with. They were fairly involved with his original contract and subsequent hciw deal.
When he was given guardrails to stay inside, it wasn't hard.
Those requirements were, finally, “hire the best available— no margin for error or risk.” Everybody in the industry, including Terry, knew about Jimbo and Trickett. Bobby should have hired them seven years earlier. I give him no credit for being forced to consider FSU’s best interests for once.
Geeze, you guys can lay off the gas.
Bowden is gone. His failures are documented, sad, and frustrating.
But MANY, MANY coaches have sought “the best candidate available” and failed miserably in that pursuit. Go ahead, you can say it…. slowly… “OK, Bowden did OK on that one.” We’re not talking about Spurrier or Meyer here.
I know Bobby’s hand was influenced by a lot of factors, but within the margin he had, which is a lot wider than you’d suggest, he made a very astute hire. There were many candidates available that would have passed Booster and any other scrutiny.
What a great read!
Nicely done FSUncensored! I knew FSU was slipping in certain areas, but I had no idea how far behind we really were, especially in the nutrition area. You see guys UF brings in, and two years later they are much more imposing physically. Understanding what Fisher is looking to do really has me excited about FSU football again, and I’ll be really happy once we rid ourselves of a lot of the “DEAD” weight we have on the roster.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
This was really evident to me
in the SEC championship game. I really concentrated on the Ds for both teams and was impressed how their guys, across the board, looked NFL ready in their size and the way they moved….which, of course, they are. In comparing our D to both of those it reminded me of when we played Duke in the 90s and watched pre-game warmups and just chuckled to yourself, “Sorry, Duke but you have absolutely no chance”. Unfortunately, we are, for the moment, Duke on that side of the ball.
I know the Duke point is sarcasm
but for those who do not know, we aren’t that bad off in that area.
I think Stroud has done well
He has not had enough time to get all the young players as big as he probably wants because he is trying to get them to put on lean muscle. Jost had guys bulking up, but some of it was fat. The conditioning seems much better now. The players do not seem warn out now.
not a reply to you nolestuff...
the article mentions the S&C coach from WKU.
How would Stroud be if he had access to all of the dietary advantages outlined above?
Bud
Do you still feel that Kirby Smart will be the DC? Or have there been any changes?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Note that i said if I had to guess
And as of now it would still be a guess. I do think he is choice #1
Dotty is apparently adamant that it won't be Smart
But if I’ve learned one thing from Dotty it’s that you should never trust him, on good or bad news.
I agree about the DOT!
I have found a lot of his info to be misleading, whether it’s on purpose or not, I have no idea.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
Great points
I think the hardest transition for both the University and the student/alumni/boosters is grasping that the football program is a very big business and should be run as such. I know that for most of my life, I always personalized the football team based on my own experiences.
However, the reality is that EVERY kid that comes to FSU thinks he’ll be going pro in a few years, and getting a degree and being a student is not really that important to the majority of the players.
Revenue from the football program funds football, many girl sports, facility upgrades, and general academic needs when money is available. That makes success in football critical to the University’s budget. I still think declining revenue (especially in this economy) was the number one reason Bobby left.
Coach Fisher is absolutely putting an SEC staff and program in place here. Just remember we beat Alabama three years ago in JAX, and they are now playing for the MNC. In two years, we’re going to own the ACC until the rest of the conference catches up to what we’re doing.
Foosball is the devil
How are we going to pay for all of this???
All this extra staffing sounds very expensive. Has Spetman and the administration bought into all this? How will the new President view all this?
The boosters seem to have already bought in to what Jimbo is doing
They have already come out and said that money will not be a problem when Jimbo tries to put his staff together and I am sure that it will not be a problem to implement some of the things he views as crucial. And as with everything else when the W’s start coming the money will be pouring in again.
Grad students
A lot of the support staff can come from grad students working on Masters and PHDs. A couple people are hired to run the staff, and then the grunt work is done by students, for free :)
Foosball is the devil
I don't think Spetman needs to be in on it
I believe Fisher and Jim Smith are tight and Smith is very good with the big boosters.
Do you have an idea if Fisher is the type that would hold off on a huge pay raise to help get some
other stuff for the team now like a better med staff, S&C staff, or better Pos coaches. Or is that something that will come from other places
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
His pay raise is contingent on winning I'm sure, so that will also generate revenue...
but his salary is going to be lower than alot of coaches because he is an unproven head coach. Take that extra million that we’re not paying Bowden, and we can put together an all star staff.
I think Fisher would love to be Bobby Bowden II for FSU
In otherwords, I think he sees this as his final job. So he would certainly forego a few million now in order to build this school back to where it was in the 80s and 90s.
Don't know about that
Fisher, unlike Urban, has a system that looks like it could work in the NFL. If he has an elite run for 5-10 years, and the NFL decides to hire college coaches again, I don’t know if Jimbo says no.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Still think Fisher is looking at FSU long term
and would be willing to give up some salary now to reap it later.
This might give you a rough estimate
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/10/15/1058464/who-might-jimbo-fisher-select-as
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Some, but don't expect it to be a huge difference maker
Our new coaching hires will make nice salaries and if we double or triple personnel, there goes more of our salary “relief”.
I didn’t like the fact that he talked about Saban in his interview. If I were a recruit, and if it were an option, I would just join Alabama. I mean if all you’re going to do is try to mimic him, why don’t I just go to the man himself who has a proven record. Obviously I’m sure Fisher has some unique ideas of his own but he didn’t highlight that fact.
I don't know if saying you learned a lot from easily one of the top 3 coaches in CFB
Is a bad thing. All these coaches learned a great deal of what they know from others. Also, the only thing he really mentioned was that Saban is an expert at building a program infrastructure and that’s something that FSU needs specifically and we need it BAD.
His statements sounded like something he should say an interview for a job as a HC, not now that he is one.
It was his first national interview on the most watched College Football pregame show in the country.
He definitely needed to prove why he was qualified as a head coach. Similar to what one would do in a job interview.
And half the country is mad about the way Bowden was forced out.
So he certainly didn’t want to be the cause of that and wanted to show his connections to Bowden.
I disagree with your opinion.
Saban is a WOW name and recruits we’re after want to see Fisher’s pedigree. He can say he was tutored by Bobby Bowden AND Nick Saban. How many guys can say that?
HOW MANY?
I would hardly say Smart was tutored by Bobby
He was a GA for a year and I doubt Bobby could even pick him out of a lineup
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Jimbo can bring Saban's organizational and Defensive philosophy
But also an offensive success and background that Saban can’t.
Because if they go to Alabama they have to wait in line to play
Coming to FSU gives you a better option to play sooner
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Also remember....
Saban is still viewed by the public in many regards as a snake (or Satan himself, in certain circles). Alabama’s reputation as a program also falls in the less than forthright vein… I think much moreso than ours, even with the academic scandal.
I found Fisher’s illustration of utilizing best traits from Saban and Bowden — think in terms of broader public perception here — to be a very strong branding/positioning for our program. Again, try not to dwell on the recent misery under Bowden; his legacy is larger than that, and one that still carries positive weight outside of our rather myopic shell.
Not defending anything Bowden says when he talks to the media..
.. but you guys mightve been jumping on Bobby if he had made the same comments about Saban that Jimbo did (i.e. about Meyer and UF not too long ago)
Coach Bowden never worked for Urban Meyer
We also don’t play Alabama every year and they aren’t our most hated and heated rival. We jumped on Bowden for making comments about Meyer “he’s more thorough than I am, he pays attention to detail”. That’s unacceptable.
Lots of reasons
Some of the kids will just like FSU more than Bama because they are Florida kids. Some of them won’t be targeted by both programs as there aren’t a lot of kids FSU and Bama are both after. Another is depth chart, there will be years when a kid can come into FSU and play earlier than he could at his other choices. Also if you are an offensive recruit the system at FSU will most likely be more to your liking.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Can we all start making Karate Kid jokes about the name now?
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
Doubt it. We've been going after one hard for years.
That’s not going to speed up the process or slow it down. It costs a lot of money and will take time.
Tools Whore
Previous reports about one booster writing the check for the indoor facility...
Hadn’t heard anything in a while on it but remember mention that once Bowden had retired that a Booster was willing to write the check. Don’t know how much truth there were to those rumors.
RETURN TO DOMINANCE, 2010!!!!
by UnstopaNole99! on Dec 7, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
One booster will pay $30M?
I mean, that’s a lot of money. And we don’t need an indoor facility. Let’s endow our athletic scholarships first.
My only concern about Sunseri
is that he seems at this point like a career yeoman- a perpetual assistant who has never been able to rise up and take charge as a primary leader. He’s what— 51? If he had the ability to construct and lead an entire defense, wouldn’t that have manifested by this point in his career? Admittedly, I don’t know his entire story, so what is it?
Maybe
Maybe the NFL gig held him back a big. He was DL coach for the Panthers from 02-08 so that could have kept him out of the DC search for a lot of coaches unless they knew him. Usually it is a friend of your old school that pulls you back from a job like that, but he coached at his old school from 85-92, leaving after the head coach was fired. Looking at his bio sort of puts me in the mind of Whipple. Sunseri has been a DC at lower levels, like Whipple ran offenses at lower levels, and both of them have NFL experience, even though neither was a coordinator. With Sal though at least we know he has worked on a couple of good staffs at the big time college level.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I found it and I'm even more concerned now.
He seems more like a very good position coach, but not a defensive master strategist and change agent that we need.
I somewhat agree...
your comment on the other thread about him being a 27 year assistant put it in perspective…“always the bridesmaid”.
Maybe Saban’s been getting him ready for Jimbo the whole time. I think this was the danger in hyping up Smart so much. I actually started to believe we could get him. If we don’t, then anybody else is going to seem like a letdown. I mean a Greg Hudson hire may have people jumping off bridges.
I think I would rather have Hudson then Sunseri
At least Hudson has show he can gameplan for the whole defense. Sunseri has never been a DC as far as I know. Going to have to trust Jimbo to know what he is doing. Saban is a snake and he has been hyping Sunseri ever since Smart’s name started getting mentioned to fill ours or Georgias DC positions. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is trying to make Sunseri seem better then he is to keep smart around as long as possible. Don’t care how close Jimbo and Saban are, you cannot trust that prick for anything. Specially after Jimbo turned down the Bama OC job to stay at FSU, I am sure Saban didn’t appreciate it.
Saban will do what's in Alabama's best interest and Jimbo knows this
Can we quit this crap that Fisher is getting hosed by Saban.
I think we'll be ok
It may even be a blessing. Smart would have been here for 1-2 years max and go on to become a HC. I think Sal’s been around the system (college and NFL) long enough to know what hes doing. I dont think Fisher is going to hire a dud esp when he knows he’s under a lot of pressure to produce
If Sunseri comes here
he’s going to have to worker than he’s ever worked, think bigger than he’s every thought, be smarter than he’s ever been, lead more than he’s ever led, to be the strategist and change agent to build a defense. I just don’t know too many guys my age who are hungry enough to change their ways. Maybe he’s an exception.
I dont think its that drastic lol
He doesnt appear to be lazy. He’s landed more recruits than most coaches at this point. I dont think hed be on sabins staff to begin with if he wasnt somewhat competent. I agree, id rather have smart, but i honestly don’t think this guy is going to be Amato’s twin brother
You think NFL coaches are lazy?
Anyone that has had any sustained success at the NFL level has proven their ability to swim in a grinder. It is certainly a different animal, but you cannot categorically say a college job is more intensive than an NFL job.
These are my thoughts
I would think an NFL position coach works as much as the average college coordinator. And to say that an NFL coach, any coach, doesn’t have to strategize, lead or adapt is ludicrous.
I would think...
The recruiting effort (which has NCAA defined limitations) is probably balanced out the extra time spent by NFL coaches with increased practice time over a much longer season, plus mini-camps, drafts, combine, scouting, etc.
So you can’t stack one against the other and see a clear delineation…. besides that, there is the notion that anyone that is succeeding at the pro or elite college level is inevitably a 120 hr/week workaholic. It’s a moot discussion and ultimately not a concern that someone like Sunseri could be too laid back or lazy to fulfill their responsibilities.
"he’s going to have to worker (sic) than he’s ever worked"
I assume that meant “work harder than he’s ever worked,” and was just disputing that one aspect of what you said. I agree it’s a mindset change, but he’s apparently done well in his year back in the NCAA ranks… but, foremost, I trust Jimbo’s evaluation in this regard.
If there is indeed some cooperation/collusion between Fisher/Saban on this, then Saban would not be blowing smoke at Jimbo about Sunseri’s quality. A strong FSU is in Alabama’s best interests, as UF being forced to play a dynasty level FSU program immediately before any SEC championship game helps the SEC West champ immensely. (That is, until they whine and chicken out of that date/arrangement.)
Coach years are like dog years
Coaches are kind of like CEOs. If a Fortune 500 company hires a CEO who just turned 50 people would look to him for a bit of innovation because most CEO tend to be 10+ years older than that. Coaches are the same way because a lot of the time you are late entering the workforce and some can be effective into their 60s. I don’t have a problem with a 50 yr old DC at all.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
We need a proven Defensive Coordinator not a position coach
And I am really worried that Saban might be making this guy seem better then he is just to get people away from throwing insane amounts of cash Smart’s way to get him out of Bama.
Despite my initial reservations and earlier posts,
I’m inclined to trust Jimbo on this one. This will be the most important hire of his career, and success or failure will determine his future here and anywhere else. His butt’s on the line, not mine.
Fisher is either incisive enough to realize this and make the right hire, or he’s not. If he’s not, then he’s not really HC material, and hiring the perfect DC wouldn’t save him or FSU anyway.
Looking short term?
A guy like Sunseri might be better long term as he would be more apt to stay for more than 2-3 years. Ideally Kirby could groom his successor, but with Sunseri, I don’t think we’d have to worry about grooming anyone for another transition in 2-3 years.
Not too happy about this
For some reason I’m just really not sold on Sunseri. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know much about the guy, but it just doesn’t seem like the big name splash that we needed. All of you guys seem to be high on him as a DC, and you all have a lot more knowledge on the subject than me (and if Jimbo is high on him I have no reason to question his judgment so far). Just feel like a name such as Smart or even Bud Foster would carry a lot more weight and help us a bunch. Either way in Jimbo I trust.
Anything right now is better than where we are though.
We can afford to test the waters a bit here. Right now we dont need to win the NC we need to win the ACC. We need to get someone that can make that happen. Our Offense can do that almost by themselfs we get someone that can get the Def to at least compeat we are back in the pic. Its not like we need a DC to go to the top 5 next season. we have about 3-4 years for that.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
we don't need the Greatest DC out there but we need someone who has proven they can be a coordinator.
It is hard to see a 51 year old coach who has been an assistant for over 20 years have the drive to come in to a new position which requires a lot more time/ preparation / dedication than he has ever had to have and completely turn around our horrendous defense which is full of bad habits and slacker attitude from the past coaching staff. I would rather see someone who has been in a DC position and proved they can do it.
We are fine
This guy has worked in the NFL and that level more than any other level without technique your going to get beat. He has worked on a 3-4 as well as a 4-3 so like Jimbo keeps saying he wants to be MULTIPLE. I have zero idea of your football background or knowledge but you need to relax in writing this guy off. Those outside backers and Dends that he coaches at Bama are a huge part of that Ds success. Look at any 3-4 D and you realize the position he coaches is critical to the success or failure of that D. Pitts Baltimore Jets Patriots Dolphins Dallas and the list goes on. Playmakers at the outside backer position force the change in blocking schemes and offensive play calling.
We don't need a proven coordinator
We need a guy who:
1. Implements schemes to best suit our personnel
2. Has flexibility in his defensive schemes to maximize his personnel against any given opponent
3. Is committed to excellence and demands accountability from himself, his assistants and his players
4. Is an ardent teacher of the game
You don’t need a “playcaller” on defense. So having called plays or not is of no consequence. If you have the systems and you’ve taught them well, your defense will succeed. Yes, I would prefer a guy who’s been DC, but it’s just not a necessity. A guy who spent 7 years as an NFL position coach is no slouch. Sunseri, if he is the hire, has been DC, albeit at I think the FCS level and has coached DL, LB and ST throughout his career. (Maybe that’s why WC is saying we are interviewing DB coaches.)
by tricknole on Dec 7, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Could be a chicken or the egg situation.
Doubt jimbo is putting all eggs in one basket. Thus, we would have a backup plan is Smart fails to pan out. WC might be projecting Sunseri simply due to the interviewing.
Also think Jimbo will want to talk to at least a few diff. people to guage how much each scenario would cost and to avoid criticism for jumping into a decision w/o doing his homework. Wouldn’t want to be seen as hiring his buddy without doing any interviewing at all. It’s all about process right? Part of the process is interviewing.
That could be
Jimbo’s said himself that he’s got “a few, a couple” guys he’s in talks with. That’s just for DC. I’m sure the same goes for assistants.
Yeah, we need a DC.
My only point is that if Kirby doesn’t pan out, Jimbo won’t want to go to square 1 and begin the process. Everyone agrees we need to name a new DC as quickly as negotiations will permit. If Jimbo has to move to Sunseri or Foster or someone else, he’s gotta have a backup plan. It’s important to get this done for recruiting, so JF can get working on the bowl game plan, so that he can get working on the other infrastructure, and so that he can get on the recruiting trail himself. I wouldn’t read too much into who he’s interviewing.
I agree and I won't write off anyone Jimbo picks as he has
made some excellent moves so far. I would just prefer a guys who’s been a DC at a Division 1 school or the NFL (like you said). But if Jimbo is confident in this guy I am in no position to doubt his choice.
All the things above sound nice and everything but
how much would this coast. Sounds like a lot of money. The ACC schools dont get money like the SEC does. These things seem like the right thing to do but its going to take time. You cant just make all this happen over night. Getting all the med. Staff is going to coast a nice penny and then we have to have a place for them to work. As for the S&C coach hes going to have his work cut out for him but If thats his job then Im sure then he can get all these little things done.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Is there a way to get an idea of the dead weight you are talking about above
or the players that might be in trouble like a players hot seat. I know Budd Thacker and Korey Mangum would be at the top of the list if they were able to stay. Im sure there are a few LB we could dump too but at the same time I dont see us doing something like this tell we get turned around because we need people for depth.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Sports gets away with a lot
They rarely pay the going rate for nutrionist, trainers, etc. There is such a large pool of people to wanting to work for a major sports team they can typically dicate whatever they want to pay.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
kinda on this topic...
Do other conferences share Bowl revenue like the ACC does? I feel like its a disadvantage for FSU, especially if the Noles start making more BCS Bowls.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 7, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Im not sure but does the football money go to the football teams or do all sports
spread the money out like b-ball, track, soccor,ect. Itf thats the case then ACC B-ball would bring in good for us too wouldnt it.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Duke and UNC could say the same thing
We don’t do much in basketball the other schools do pull most of the weight. And i think there are sports we don’t compete in at all like Hockey, BC is quite good in Hockey I hear, or Men soccer.
Those sports may not bring as much as the football programs but it’s still is money and more visibility for the ACC, which in turn benefits FSU.
I probably don't know Judo, but I have a black belt in crazy.
I don't buy this
Football makes more than the others and its not even close. A BCS bid is worth something like 10-15mil, right? My point is that if FSU is sharing their BCS money while a school like Florida got to keep theirs, it would put FSU at yet another incredible economic disadvantage compared to some SEC schools. We’re still screwed to an extent because the ACC can’t ever get two teams to the BCS.
And does everyone revenue share across all sports?
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 7, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
NCAA basketball bids are worth several million each.
Add them up, these can be a competitive revenue generator as well. If the ACC hadn’t been shafted for so many consecutive years by the selection committee (including its own representatives), our hole wouldn’t be nearly as deep.
The disparity between ACC and SEC revenues is inexcusable, and partly due to the ACC not taking care of its own. If we’re talking about “business,” Swofford should have been kicked to the curb 5 years before Bowden ever was. From all outward appearances, it seems this conference’s leadership has failed miserably.
Yes
All conferences share money and all sports that compete in that conference go into the shared “pool”. As someone mentioned, BC competes in hockey but the ACC doesn’t compete in hockey, so any earnings BC makes in hockey isn’t shared with the rest of the ACC.
When was the last time we brought in a BCS bid?
Especially the at large spot which is really the only way to bring extra BCS money to a conference. 10+ years ago we were bringing in the football bucks for the conference, but not anymore.
by osceolafan850 on Dec 7, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
yes
they all share.. BCS gives all conferance so much money (depending on how many schools they had in the BCS games) which is then shared with all schools in the conferance. The Big 6 conferances are given more money than the non-BCS conferances if they happened to get their schools in the BCS game.
A few years ago..
one of the Big 10 or Big 12 coaches (can’t remember who) claimed that the conferance was rigging games to ensure two BCS teams for higher payouts. The coach later apologized but does anyone think SEC is doing the same (i.e. Florida v. Vandy)
Did you see them put one second back on the clock for Texas to kick a field goal
Favoritism is just a part of sports. I’m sad that Nebraska couldn’t beat the other 16 guys on the field they were playing against
I thought that was a legit call
Nebraska crapped themselves by giving Texas 55 free yards on the last drive.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
there clearly was a second left on the clock when the ball hit the ground out of bounds.
Which means that when the ball left the playing field in the air there was at least 2 to 3 seconds on the clock. I don’t know when the clock is supposed to stop (when it hits the ground or when it goes OOB) but at the very least there was 1 second left. The refs got it right by giving Texas 1 second but the Texas coaching staff did a horrible job on that sequence of plays. If Nebraska doesn’t rush McCoy he runs out the clock for sure. Really awful idea to snap that football with a timeout left.
Didn't work for us against miami though, when there was clearly 1 second left.
I thought the argument was that the ref calls the play dead when the whistle is blown, not when the ball hits the ground?
Our game vs Miami never even got reviewed.
If Bowden would have gotten on the officials to review the play I think there is a good chance they would have put a second back on the clock.
The play was reviewed, but only to determine if the ball was caught - not to see how much time was on the clock.
In any event, if one second gets put back on the clock and we manage to punch it in for the win, all other things being equal, we’re sitting at 7-5 and Bowden would have found a way to leverage that win over Miami into one more year as head coach.
It was a great game and, in the grand scheme of things, we gained more in the end by having lost it.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
I agree
Except for the fact that I was at a house full of Miami fans watching the game and couldn’t stand it at the time. In the end we might be better off for it.
I was in a bar full of them.
I feel your pain.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
this is exactly what I thought of the second they started reviewing it.
The same exact situation was interpreted two different ways. Someone screwed up in one of the games.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Dec 7, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Clock stops when the ball is blown dead, not when the ball hits the ground.
Regardless, at the end of the Miami game the play was reviewed, the catch was deemed incomplete, and the referee also noted that time had expired. Why had it expired in our case, but not in Nebraska’s? Who knows.
The ball is dead when it goes out of bounds and hits the ground, at which point the official blows his whistle to indicate a dead ball.
The whistle has nothing to do with when a ball is actually dead and a time stoppage should be incurred on plays where a definitive call can be made on when the ball became actually became dead (You can see when the ball hit the ground or runner stepped out of bounds). In those instances, you can review to see the exact moment when the ball became dead and adjust the clock accordingly. This happens all the time when a runner breaks a long run up the sideline and the review shows he stepped out of bounds 20-30 yards before the play was whistled dead (Either by subsequently being tackled, forced out of bounds, or scoring a touchdown) – They place the ball at the correct spot and reset the game clock to when he stepped out.
Now if McCoy tried to sneak it for an extra couple of yards and/or to get a favorable hash for his kicker and was stood up, the whistle would then indicate the end of the play and when he could call a timeout. If forward progress wasn’t declared by a ref’s whistle until after time expired, it’s not reviewable, even if they had him stood up for several seconds, because it’s a pure judgment call.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
My point was
The only reason it gets reviewed and over-ruled is because they are the Texas Longhorns, not because it was the right thing to do.
In this case, it so happens that it was the right thing to do, but I can tell you that they would not have been taking all the stops had it been Nebraska, or even FSU v Miami.
That was the point.
I see we are not on the same lvl as most of the SEC schools
How do we look for ACC schools. Do we know if other ACC schools are trying to do things like this also. Is the SEC and other Bigs(USC, OSU, UT) doing this stuff or is this something kinda new over the last few years that the SEC has done and shows works.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Good article posted by O-Town Nole
The Longhorn Economy Broken down in several parts, make sure to read all of them
The Longhorns spend about $3 million a year to outfit and staff athletic facilities with trainers, therapists, physicians, chiropractors and masseuses.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Wow thats about all I can say from that.
It would seem there is a lot more money out there than I thought there was. How many ath. programs does FSU have. I would think we should do ok pulling money in from them also because we seem to do well in others. Seems like this would not be for the football team but all sports at FSU and that would be even better.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
It's nothing short of absolutely amazing how much they've got their act together.
To see that there’s finally going to be a push to move us in that direction makes me literally giddy like a schoolgirl.
"The other day I... uh, no, that wasn't me." - Steven Wright
When talking about UTexas, keep this in mind:
“The University of Texas at Austin is apparently one of the richest universities in the world, and consequently has been able to purchase many rare artefacts and manuscripts. The university’s wealth is a result of the fact that it owned an oil reserve which was drilled during the 20th century.”
In fact, the richest universities are ranked as follows:
1. Harvard – $36 Billion Endowment
2. Yale – $22 Billion Endowment
3. Stanford – $17 Billion Endowment
4. Princeton – $16.3 Billion Endowment
5. University of Texas – $16.1 Billion Endowment
Other Schools of Note:
UF – $1.25 Billion Endowment
Miami – $741 Million Endowment
Duke – $5.9 Billion Endowment
UVA – $4.37 Billion Endowment
And, of course, our beloved alma mater:
FSU – $575 Million Endowment
But don’t worry! We’re in a rich conference!
ACC – $21.4 Billion in Endowments
vs.
SEC – $11.3 Billion in Endowments
Now, if you’re talking about non monetary forms of payment such as chickens, food stamps or necklaces made of human teeth, then balance tips back in favor of the SEC.
Go Noles!
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
Those endowments are pre-economy crash
Harvard lost something like 40% of it’s endowment. In other words, it lost like 40 times our endowment’s total net worth. We also lost like $150M last year.
gotta have money to make money
finance 101 – we just don’t have the donor base… yet
by StM on Dec 7, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of our law grads are hitting their prime. Our med school needs another 30 years to reap the huge donors. But the MAIN problem isn’t the donor base. We have like 300,000 alumni. The problem is that we don’t have a leader (president) that we can follow. There’s no one out there giving us hope, showing us that hey, if you give money here, this is the return you’ll see on it (not repayment, but see concrete improvements at FSU). I knew far too many students at FSU that would laugh over academics at the school. There just isn’t that PRIDE in the university that UF has.
I don’t want their arrogance, but I’d love for our alumni to have their pride. That pride is fostered through a good relationship with the school. All of that leads to good donors (lots of them, and big timers).
You're right. Those are numbers from 2008.
But even if we’re half as rich, we’re still twice as rich as the SEC baby! :-)
It is interesting that Texas is the only one of the richest schools that has any interest in big time college sports, especially football.
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
We better start drilling for oil
I hear there’s some oil under the statue of a legendary coach outside doak campbell stadium.
I probably don't know Judo, but I have a black belt in crazy.
Excellent analysis.
Fans may "feel’ better about nice guys like Richt who seem to think FCA membership is a high point on a resume. But just as a football game is a mock battle, building a program is preparing for war. Without a wartime sense of desperation and striving to come out on top, you’re going to lose against talented and/or well-led opponents.
These sort of changes also benefit the players
Your war analogy reminds me of the military academies and training. They don’t let the kids sluff off and goof around. Like a scholly kid, the military colleges are “free” but the privilege of the free education carries certain obligations such as physical AND mental/academic training. If you screw around academically or can’t meet the physical training requirements, you are out. Thos who make it through are better men for it. Mind you, the restrictions put on the players as outlined above are not the rigorous requirements of our service academies. It’s not too much to ask our guys to cut down on the amount of weed they smoke or grace the classrooms with their presence. That’s just not too much to ask, but it will can produce a lot of resistence from some rotten apples—the kind that bring disrepute on a program.
When I taught for a year at an inner city middle school, it became very clear that disadvantaged kids with broken home lives can learn despite theri circumstances. The best teachers were the ones who imposed discipline. To learn, the kids needed strict structure that was otherwise totally absent in their lives. And they loved the teachers who imposed that sort of discipline upon them. So I think the not too demanding requirements on the kids will be good for them and they should appreciate them. It’s not about failing to care for the players and their well-being by having a cut-em-loose attitude. It’s about caring enough to get them to produce and learn—to get the best out of them. Those who make it through will be winners in life even if they are not good enough to make it to the next level.
Enough of this cold-hearted poppycock about it’s all business. It is business, but it is also about creating men and caring enough to call them to excellence in a way no one has before.
All of this talk about business
Just means that one day college football will be second wrung to a minor league style team as it is more profitable for these players to get paid than go to school…at least in their minds and in the general manner in which they conduct business.
So you have to be careful in how you go about raising standars
Many people enjoy college sports because of their attachment to the program and the pagentry involved. I won’t say it’ll never be replaced by a minor league football league but there’s a good reason it hasn’t happened yet. The same could be said for basketball which does have a minor league but NCAA basketball still does well.
NCAA Basketball is a perfect point
Because the quality of players who are playing NCAA BAsketball is WAYYY down.
Instead of Michael Jordan staying in college to get his talent developed by top quality coaches @ UNC, he would instead do his year and jump into the league.
The NBA will pay top dollar to develop him because their talent pool has gone way down because they are stealing the kids so early that the quality of play in the league is down, and minimal fundamental skills are actually required to play NBA basketball.
It all eventually gets to the point that athletic development and money get played hand and hand and that the quality of players goes way down but they can do cool things like jump 20 ft in the air.
Not sure if I explained myself well, her is a quick recap:
(1) The best players don’t want an education, they want to get paid
(2) They will eventually find a way to circumvent the system and get paid. In basketball, these players just go over to Europe and play for a year if they really can’t stand the thought of college.
(3) Professional organizations do not coach well; they generally focus on physical development over fundamental development. Fundamental development is generally focused on mostly in college—which is also during a critical part of an athletes physical development (ie, development of muscle memory).
(4) Because money is the driving factor here, athletes skirt college, over develop themselves physically and starve themselves of a fundamental game.
At least thats what happens in basketball.
To do ANYTHING you presume, there fist must be a minor league NFL
I don’t see that occurring. Or, maybe you think it’s possible a league like the UFL drafts high school kids, and they use that as their stepping stone to the NFL?
Because the NBA has a rule where a kid must be at least one year removed from high school, as you mention. But the NFL has a rule that the kid must be 3 years removed. Those 2 additional years are pretty big.
I'm just saying that if someone created a league where these kids could get paid
And then be fostered into the NFL, the idiot kids would take the deal, full well knowing that some 75% of them would not be entering the league.
I’m sure some as*hole is dreaming this up but doesn’t have the large pool of capital it would require to start.
Not only that but those who don't fit our program won't gain anything for just sitting around in the practice squad
by cutting them loose they have a chance to try their luck elsewhere where they may fit better. Thus improving their chances at playing time and exposure.
Interesting points
Here in San Diego, we have probably the best crop of high school players I can remember. At least as far as the Seniors are concerned (UM has been all the way out here for recruiting visits). These kids are getting offers from not only schools out west, but the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC, and even SEC have offered as well. Point being, there was nothing in the water that made that happen. Fortunately, these kids stayed out of trouble and stayed disiplined long enough to take advantage of the opportunies their athletic talent warranted.
I believe kids generally do respond well to discipline and structure. That is, if they are in situations where people with a vested interest in their athletic ability actually give a damn about their development as people and citizens as well. In some high schools, I believe they may be reluctant to impose hard discipline on players for fear of them transferring. We all know that doesn’t help a kid in the long term(Just helps win a few ballgames, thats all). In fact, it’s those kids who have been told they are the “greatest” and grow up with a sense of entitlement ( Not just the kids people try to label as “thugs”) who will have an adverse reaction to the implementation of discipline. Because they have never had to fight from the bottom of the depth chart. And they’ve been indirectly taught, the better player you are, the worse person you can be (Thats allowances do at times).
Those are the players who will leave school as academic casualties, forced transfers, and discipline problems, because they’ve never been introduced to any measure of accountablity. So at every program, they’re needs to be a certain sink or swim element imposed to weed out the bad apples and those who refuse to buy in. I still believe Fred Rouse’s problems started well before he got to FSU, therefore he was almost destined to continue to have issues once he got there.
CFB is a multi-billion dollar business, but it is built on the backs of young men. Holding them accountable for what they do on and off the field is key, a win or two here and there be damned. That is where Meyer failed in his dealing with Spikes. Everyone wants to win, but it’s what you do in between the wins and losses that ultimately determine the quality of your “Program”
by westcoastnolefan on Dec 7, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Glad to see changes
As a casual fan most of my youth i have really been a devoted, full heart and soul, noles for about 6 years now(so i thought.) Cant believe that we are so far behind the top teir teams, when for so long we were so far ahead. Hard for a guy like me who grew up lovin FSU football because BB was the MAN, and then he just ran us in the dirt for a lack of better terms. I truly can’t wait for Jimbo to start a new era that my kids can grow up watching and hopefully have the same love for the team that i do. BTW i got tickets to the Gator Bowl last night and cant wait to see the game. Anyone else plannin on being there? Any tailgaters or gatherings before the game?
by hntdeerliv4noles on Dec 7, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions
I tried
going to the gatorbowl.com site and they said the tickets were sold out or otherwise unavailable.
your best bet now is stub hub or some other ticket site...
…but theyre marking up tickets at least $15, you could try craigslist too…since its sold out theyre only going to get more expensive
got mine from stub hub
and im in the super nosebleeds and paid 201 for 2 tickets…thats all that was available and i didnt care! Cant wait to be at the game and hopefully see ol Bobby go out on a high note and Jimbo start off on a good note.
by hntdeerliv4noles on Dec 7, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
"Expect Fisher to turn FSU into an SEC program."
Thats pretty much what I said on Andrew Carters blog as well. I can see it going like that. Which Im pretty excited about. FSU will become the new beast in the southeast and run all up and down the ACC here very soon.
I wonder if we'll use the eBay more
Just talked to a team insider who said that academically, federal law now requires that all online classes must be proctored by either fingerprint or webcam. They will be utilizing it throughout the whole program though. While Jimbo builds the coaching staff, he’s sending out everyone from Coley down to the Doak janitorial staff to recruit.
I disagree with one point...
“…Doak janitorial staff to recruit.”
I haven’t a single thing about Amato doing any recruiting right now.
by MattDNole on Dec 7, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Turns out
Nigel Carr left a half-eaten Tuna Sandwich and his sweaty jock in his locker after the Maryland game just to spite Amato.
I really thought Amato demanding an orderly locker would be a good thing
I figured it was one of many things being implemented to get some order and structure in the program. I guess it wasn’t.
Sounds like it was as hollow as his skull.
“Here look at me, big, bad, red shoes-wearing, F-cup sporting Italian Stalian…. I’m enforcing clean lockers.”
“But, coach, you’ve been watching film from the Wisconsin game for 8 weeks now. FSU is playing Wake tomorrow. And we saw you come out of Governor’s Square with shopping bags… lots.. JC Penny, Belk, Prada, Foot Locker, Victoria’s Secret….You can’t possibly be doing anything else.”
“Look at Maurice Harris’ Locker! His socks are organized by the last 4 digits of the SSN of the QC inspector. His towels are hung in a neat tri-fold. His helmet perfectly polished and shined!”
I've had the tuna from the Moore Dining Hall. It's pretty damn good!
Carr is an idiot if he’s leaving tasty food around, regardless of if it’s all you can eat.
I think Amato
worries more about what pair of sunglasses he is gonna wear more than if his boys are eing held accountable…..I seriously thing you could put his Noles gear on a monkey and put the monkey on the sideline with a headset and the monkey would do a better job than Amato. Atleast the monkey would make some sort of loud noise and jump around and maybe that would motivate a few guys…
by hntdeerliv4noles on Dec 7, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
i got 20 bucks for a box of nanners anyone wanna give a couple hundred more.....
and we can get this guys Herby for a 3-4 year deal!
by hntdeerliv4noles on Dec 7, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I just have two questions
1. How would you go about not renewing the scholarships? By that I mean, at what point do you consider the guy a non-contributor to the program? Do you give them until the end of their sophomore year? I would think that’s fair.
If you get rid of the guy after one year, why did you offer him in the first place? I could see some kids not buying into the program just yet, but would giving them that second year cost the program?
What if a kid doesn’t want to transfer out even if he’s told it’s in his best interest? Is that when you threaten him by saying his scholarship won’t be renewed and he’ll be left out in the cold? How’s that get handled? Do our coaches or staff locate coaches/schools that are interested in him prior to telling them we think they should seek other options? That would seem the respectable thing to do.
2. What about some stadium renovations? I’m talking big time like fixing the “concourse”. New lighting, new restrooms, new concessions, etc. It’s so dark and crappy down there. I don’t think that needs to be updated until we start winning and have the financial support to do it right and go all out. However, the “banner” where the north endzone is that lists all our accomplishments is trashy. Can we brick that up and make it a permanent structure with all our All Americans, Heismans, ACC Crowns and National Championships on a solid sign instead? I would love that.
by tricknole on Dec 7, 2009 6:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
1. That’s going to be a completely case-by-case situation. The coaches that recruited the kids know what they expected, how hard they’re working, and how they’re projected to develop. There won’t be a blanket rule on that.
2. We need to start bringing in the cash and build our program infrastructure first. Other improvements will be made after we improve the product on the field, IMO.
>>---l>
As for #2
I stated all of that is unnecessary and wouldn’t expect it until season tickets and Boosters were high. But getting rid of the bed sheet flapping beneath the scoreboard in the north endzone and putting in a wall of achievements wouldn’t cost much at all, relatively speaking.
my completely uniformed thoughts...
Im also concerned – at least on the surface – about the idea of just cutting kids loose after two years. If a kid is not putting forth the effort that is one thing, but if FSU starts to simply trim the fat each year in search of newer, younger talent… ehh… Im not sure how I feel about that.
It is a business yes, but these are still kids putting their futures in your hands. I dont think you can just take his free ride away because his frame wont hold wait or his quickness doesnt come around. Of course you dont want a team full of under achievers. But a junior that hasnt transformed into an All American, but continues to work hard, lead by example, etc… I for one would not want to see FSU cut such a kid loose.
Great point, Dixie
I didn’t even mention that, but I had thought about it prior to typing out my comment earlier. Some of those kids are the “character”, “glue”, “leader” guys you need and want on the team.
If however a kid is slacking in the classroom and showing up to practice or meetings late, etc., I guess cutting them is more understandable. But what if we have a player like that that is the “star” of the team? Do you treat them differently?
So how about Jim Harbaugh as the new Notre Dame coach? Anyone believe it? I would not be surprised.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Doubt it
Figure he’s just looking for leverage for a better contract—which he certainly deserves.
Did anyone notice that Jimbo is wearing a Bowden-esque suite?
Pretty interesting move there…
The ACC and Recruiting
Here’s a post from Statefansnation.com that lays out exactly how UNC got around the maximum number of allotted scholarships. Jimbo could possibly learn a thing or two from Butch Davis. I warn you… it’s long… but there’s a lot going on there.

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