Strategy Session: Size Does Matter... At Least On Defense.
Florida State's defense has a problem. It's a problem that some might not have realized the 'Noles have. Others might have thought about this issue without realizing how big of a problem it actually is.
Over the course of the next five months we will get into the problems of the Florida State defense. We'll discuss the problems with the Noles scheme, personnel, coaching, and voice our concerns over something that should interest all Seminoles fans.
Mickey Andrews will go into the college football hall of fame as one of the best defensive coordinators in history. A past winner of the Broyles award, Andrews produced some of the better defenses in college football history.
Andrews was so successful that offensive coordinators began to design their schemes to beat the defense Andrews ran (along with the other great defensive coordinators of the day). Andrews almost snuffed out the I-Formation. Offenses had to find a way to combat defenses that stacked the box with 8 defenders with a bunch of speed. Of course, the solution was to spread out the formation (goodbye fullback) and utilize the quarterback as a running threat. By doing so, offenses were now able to play 11-on-11 as opposed to 10-on-11.
We'll discuss that further at a later date. What you need to understand is that teams who relied on stacking the box were forced to adapt. They did this in different ways, but the recurring component of the successful adaptations was the ability to stop the run without committing the extra defender to the box (the so called "8th man).
Unfortunately for FSU, this change was occurring right during the height of the "Nepotism Era." As head coach Bobby Bowden forced his nepotous hire down the throats of the concerned FSU family, the organizational disfunction began to permeate the defensive side of the ball. It wasn't as noticeable at first, but it definitely happened. During that period, FSU's recruiting dropped off somewhat, including defensive recruiting. The defensive coaches finally realized it was happening about a year later. They did not, however, realize the gravity of the offensive change that was occuring across the college football landscape. Where FSU formerly recruited speed and some size, they now recruited only speed. FSU made a choice that it might not have even realized it was making: they focused solely on speed in their attempt to stop the non pro-style attacks they were faced with increasing regularity. That move, along with an injury and an unexpected early departure would cost the 'Noles Defense dearly in the 2008 season.
A problem in the 2008 season? Believe it. By typical statistics, FSU's defense looked very good. Consider that those numbers were compiled in a very defensive minded conference, however, and read something I threw together in November:
Note: go here for an explanation of the advanced measurements we've used to gauge FSU's performance.
FEI is the best measure of performance we have, as it is opponent adjusted and breaks down the game on a much deeper level.
DEFENSE
- In 2007, the Noles entered the UF game ranked 18th in Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (ADE), posting a 0.218 score.
- In 2008, the Noles entered the UF game ranked 19th in Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (ADE), posting a 0.021 score
Hmm, not much improvement, but still a good score. What might account for this? Why then, are we still disappointed in the defense? This defense needed to be elite (top 5). It showed no improvement, sliding a spot from 2007 to 2008. Unlike the offense, who went with a clear youth movement, the defense was very talented and loaded with returning starters. The defense returned 7 of 11 starters from the 2007 team, and did not feature a sophomore of freshman! Additionally, the 2007 unit was constantly injured-- a fate the 2008 unit did not suffer. After the 2008 season, the Noles defense will suffer massive causalities. A minimum of 8 starters (out of a possible 11) will leave. All told, it is entirely possible that 13 of the top 22 defensive players (22 encompass the 1st and 2nd string) will not be with the Noles in 2009. This was an experienced, talented unit that stayed remarkably healthy and did not produce dominant results under the direction of Mickey Andrews, Chuck Amato, and Jodey Allen. The defensive staff has no excuse. They did not inherit a huge mess as Jimbo Fisher did.
NOTE: remember that FEI automatically adjusts for rules changes because it measures performance on drives, as opposed to only games. It also doesn't count non-competitive drives (drives where the game is locked up, for instance a drive when a team leads by 40 in the 4th quarter). This explains why FSU got little credit for crushing UAB and DUKE in the 2007 ratings. FSU received zero credit for their wins against the I-AA competition in 2008.
We can dig deeper still, but we need to consider a few things as well. First, the following numbers are not opponent adjusted. This is raw data. Second, the 2007 data includes a game against Duke (goes hand in hand with the lack of opponent adjustment). Third, the clock rules changed this year, giving offenses about 12 less plays per game (about 17% less opportunities).
- in 2007, the Noles allowed 4.99 yards per play in ACC competition. Removing Duke, the Noles allowed 5.05 yards per play.
- In 2008, the Noles allowed 4.86 yards per play in ACC competition.
These results bode well for those arguing to keep Mickey Andrews. In his favor they did show improvement against much tougher competition. Still, this is not enough improvement for a unit with this sort of talent and athletic ability.
What about offensive points allowed per play? Remember that First, these are not opponent adjusted. This is raw data. Second, the 2007 data includes a game against Duke (goes hand in hand with the lack of opponent adjustment).
- In 2007, the Noles allowed 0.29 offensive points per play in ACC competition (0.32 if you edit out Duke).
- In 2008, the Noles allowed 0.33 offensive points per play in ACC competition.
Again, these numbers show that the 2008 defense did not improve or reach an elite level, despite being deeper, more talented, more experienced, and much healthier than the 2007 edition.
NOTE: FSU ended up 20th nationally in Defensive Efficiency
Back in December, I tried to sound the alarm. People were very worried about facing Wisconsin's huge offensive line. I told everyone to relax:
I believe that FSU struggled against not huge offensive lines, but rather teams who ran something other than the pro-style offense (2-backs with a non-mobile quarterback). Why would I think this? Mostly because I've seen teams adapt their offense to counteract the schemes of Mickey Andrews and other legendary defensive coordinators of the 90's.
Why would I think this? Mostly because I've seen teams adapt their offense to counteract the schemes of Mickey Andrews and other legendary defensive coordinators of the 90's.
So, what teams run these offenses? NC State (with Russell Wilson and the zone read), Boston College (who ran that zone-read give out of the gun 20+ times), and UF. Georgia Tech Runs majority option, so I Included them as well. The results?
Against majority Pro-Style Offenses:
These numbers are excellent. 4.1 yards allowed per play is very good considering that these 6 games came against BCS competition, as I removed the two games against 1-AA competition. Note that we allowed only 2.6 yards per rush. If you don't think these numbers are impressive, just wait till you see the difference between our defense against a pro-style attack (like Wisconsin)and a Non- Pro Style scheme...
Non Pro-Style Schemes:
That's quite the difference. Every single category got significantly worse. Also note that removing UF's numbers don't significantly reduce the categories. I was shocked at just how well NC State's offense played. Clearly, our Offense won that game by holding the ball for a long time.
For those who want the clear comparison in table form, you are in luck...
| Total Off. | Rushing | Passing | ||||||||||||||
| Opponent | PPG | Plays | Yds | Per Play | No | Net | YPC | TFL's | Att | Comp | Yds | TD | Int | Sacks | Dropbacks/ Sacks | QB Rating |
| Against Pro-Style | 19 | 65 | 270 | 4.1 | 31 | 83 | 2.6 | 10 | 34 | 17 | 187 | 1.2 | 1.2 | 4.3 | 8.8 | 100 |
| Against SBGUNOPTION | 28 | 60 | 385 | 6.4 | 39 | 235 | 6.0 | 7 | 20 | 11 | 151 | 1.5 | 0.5 | 0.8 | 28 | 138 |
Yeah... we get destroyed by anyone with an ounce of talent the the motivation to break away from the popular offenses of the 90's. The Noles own pro-style attacks. In other news, Clemson will shift into a non-Pro Style offense in 2009.
That answer is too simple, however, as the issue is deeper than the inability to adapt a once-dominant scheme to the modern day offense.
Florida State's absolute preference for smaller, faster defenders has not worked as a substitute for adapting to the more modern, non pro-style offensive schemes.
Below, you'll find a list of the best 20 defenses nationally, as measured by Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (the best available measure of defensive performance) and the combined weight of their front 7's.
4-3 Schemes (4 defensive linemen and three linebackers).
Note: I also included teams that run the 4-2-5 here and counted their largest safety as a linebacker for comparison purposes.
USC #5 Defense Total Weight: 1860lbs
SDE Kyle Moore | 6-6, 270
WDE Everson Griffen | 6-3, 265
Clay Matthews | 6-3, 240 (Matthews sometimes plays linebacker and sometimes plays weakside/rush end.
NT Averell Spicer | 6-2, 295
DT Fili Moala | 6-5, 295
LB Brian Cushing | 6-3, 255
LB Kaluka Maiava | 6-0, 230
LB Rey Maualuga | 6-2, 260
2008 USC is obviously the model that every defense should endeavor to emulate. They total 1860lbs across the front 7. Owning the West Coast, it's probably a tad unrealistic to believe that any other team can get this combination of size and speed on the field at the same time, but I wanted to start with the best. Tomahawk Nation writer CaStauch chimes in on the excellent USC attack
Addressing the state of Florida State's defensive Front: USC as an Ideal Case
The basic schematic structure to the Southern California Trojan's defensive front is the 43 under. Within this basic framework, each of the front seven players are responsible for a single <i>gap</i> between the offensive line. Inherently, this is an unforgiving discipline, because a single missed responsibility could potentially lead to a big gain by the offense; there usually isn't any backup if we're not considering the defensive backfield.
So, coaches that utilize this front are forced to whittle out each and every efficiency-sapping imperfection. Not necessarily flaws, but things that aren't optimized in order to compensate for the unkind discipline with which this style must be played. In doing this, each position within the front seven has a specific archetype that has been tested and carved to its optimal level. Coarsely, these positions are: Weakside Defensive End (WDE), Nose Tackle (NT), Defensive Tackle (DT), and Strongside Defensive End along the defensive line, and; Weakside Linebacker (Will), Middle Linebacker (Mike) and Strongside Linebacker (Sam) make up the LB corps. Each position has a specific responsibility and players must be recruited that can fill these roles as best as they can. There cannot be any square peg in round hole recruiting here.
The 43 under- one gap scheme denotes particular responsibilities to each player. Concurrently, each of these responsibilities are themselves the foundation their teammates responsibilities: each position reflexively impacts and allows each other position to function. Starting from strongside and going to weakside, with respect to the defense's point of view of the offense (in that the strongside of the defense lines up opposite the strongside of the offense, usually the one with a Tight End), the first position to analyze is the Strongside Defensive end. The SDE lines up on the outside shoulder of offensive tackle to his side. His position is important because it cuts off the <i>angle</i> from which the offensive tackle can move <i>without resistance</i>. This is the form of protection that he bestows upon the LB behind him: because of the angle of his lineup, the OT cannot easily block down on the second level LB without either going <i>through</i> the SDE or amidst the congested middle of the line. In order to make the former as difficult as possible, the SDE must possess some method of holding his ground. Most naturally, this would imply weight. Usually SDE's range from 270-285 pounds. E.J. Wilson, of UNC (Coached by John Blake, one of the foremost DL minds in the collegiate game) weighs in at 280 lbs. Tyson Jackson at LSU clocks in at 285. Southern Cal's SDE, on the other hand, weighed in this past season at 6'6" 275 lbs.
In addition to weight, the SDE needs some form of body composition that utilizes this girth. There are two options. The first, is two evenly distribute the weight in a lankier frame, like USC's Moore. A longer body implies longer limbs. This, in combination with the greater amount of space that a longer body eats up, allows the SDE to control the line of scrimmage by <i>dictating</i> the movement of the OL with his longer arms. Another model for this method is Carlos Dunlap from UF. If you were with us earlier in the season, you may remember my piece on spatial and temporal playmakers (http://www.tomahawknation.com/
2008/11/23/668913/strategy- session-did-the-d ). A lankier SDE is an example of such a <b>spatial constriction</b>: his control of his opponent and longer frame shortens the negative space between him, his opposite OL, and the next D-Lineman, thus constricting the space in which the offense has to exploit.The second option for an SDE to utilize his size is a stockier frame to produce leverage. This requires a slightly heavier player, like UNC's to exasperate the adequate leverage over what is no doubt a much taller OL.
The moral of the story for the SDE is that his job is to be a <i>clogger</i>. He prevents the Linebackers behind him from being blocked by the OL and TE opposite him. His angle of deployment, that on the outside shoulder of the OT and inside shoulder of the TE, along with his girth and size, allow him to do this. FSU has suffered the lack of an SDE for much of this decade. Our SDE this past season? Neefy Moffett. As admirable he performed at times, his size (256 lbs) preventing him from consistently manning the clogger role needed. Behind him, we have Kevin McNeil and Everette Dawkins, both of whom may be able to weigh in at the necessary weight (at least 275). We're also recruiting a bevy of diversity at this position, including David Perry (6"6 240) and Darious Cummings (6'2 260) both in their junior years.
Next in line is maybe the most integral man in the 43 under front, the Nose Tackle. He lines up in the gap between the center and guard on the SDE's side. More than any other, his role is singularly that as a <i>clogger</i>. It is imperative that his physical presence prevents either the Center and Guard to a) defend him 1 on 1, freeing up one of the blockers, and b) bypassing the NT to the Mike or Will LBs behind him. To meet this responsibility, the NT, like the SDE, has choices. Either actually clog the middle of the line with his immense girth (this is the popular approach within the NFL and was clearly illustrated by B.J. Raji and Boston College), or prove to be strong enough and have enough of a competent knowledge of technique and leverage that the same goal is accomplished. The latter is more likely for FSU: not only is it easier to teach technique and develop strength on top of necessary bulk, but we've one of the better technical NT coaches in the country. Coming in at a mere 262 lbs, Coach Haggins turned Brod Bunkley into a chiseled 290 lb NT worthy of first round draft pick and pro bowl consideration. Southern Cal's analog was Averall Spicer, 6'2" and 295. Last year, we played with Budd Thacker, who weighed in at 275, and Paul Griffin, at 280 (doubtful). This was the most direct reason for our porous run defense.
The future, however, looks bright if not tenuous. Moses McCray is expected to play at ~305, and will add that impressive bulk with the mechanical muscle memory imbued from wrestling in high school that will make learning the technical skills much easier. Behind him, Jaccobi McDaniel should start at 280 but gain weight steadily from there, and every coach that has witnessed his domination at the last two All Star games has come away incredibly impressed with his technical ability already.
The Strongside Defensive End and Nose Tackle serve as the foundation upon which the 43 under front is built. They are the necessary brick and mortar that enables the next two pieces, the Defensive Tackle and Weakside Defensive End, to perform as disrupters that cut the spatial and temporal advantages inherent in the Offense.
The Defensive Tackle lines up on the outside shoulder of the Guard on the weak side. His position, labeled a Three Technique affords him the luxury of a one on one matchup with the Guard. Shielded both by the body of the Guard with whom he’s matched up, and his Nose Tackle’s clogging responsibility tying up the center, it is the Coach’s responsibility to recruit and develop a player that accentuates this disruptive potential. Here, Florida State has traditionally excelled. Darnell Dockett, arguably the MVP of the Cardinals late season surge, exemplifies this most clearly, as does Travis Johnson. Southern Cal’s Fili Moala weighs in at 6’2" 290, and possesses the necessary fast-twitch acceleration and understanding of technique and leverage to consistently beat the OG he’s opposite and disrupt the play
Florida State’s answer to this need is Justin Mincey. So as long as he develops mentally (stays eligible) and physically (fills out), Justin is potentially the next in a long line of first round picks produced by Coach Haggins. His width and length, at 6’5", allows him to control and dictate the contact with the likely shorter and slower OG. His speed isn’t gone to waste; shielded by his angle and the NT, he is provided an ample two gaps worth of protection with which to work.
Alongside him, the Weakside Defensive End also serves as a disruptor. He deploys on the outside shoulder of the left tackle, and the inherent disruptive qualities and unrivaled spatial isolation are the reasons Left Tackles are paid more than any position in Football. While the DT is also matched up against a single blocker, he is not awarded the space with which to work like the WDE. As such, he is the principle source of pass rush in this scheme. His size and physique must illustrate this principle goal: normally between 250 and 260 lbs, allowing him not to sacrifice speed and agility with which he can attack an environment (one blocker and nearly ~30 yards of space) that is unrivaled by any other frontal configuration. While Souther Cal has Everson Griffin, FSU counters with Everette Brown and now Markus White. For all of our struggles these past seasons in fielding satisfactory SDEs and NTs, the WDE position has not been a source of angst, at least personnel wise (schematically however, has caused some frustration, but that is the seed of another article for another day).
Behind the defensive line, the Linebackers serve as the second source of necessary aggregate size. It could even be said that Southern Cal’s line, while holding the minimal compulsory weight, was still a little light along the defensive line. However, they make up for that lack with bigger, while still retaining the athleticism to cover ground, linebackers.
Smallest among these is the Weakside Linebacker, the Will. Lining up in the gap between the NT and DT, the Will is provided unequaled protection and shielding from blockers in an ideal case. In fact, unless the Offense purposefully allows either the DT or WDE to come unabated (on a screen, for example), there cannot be a blocker to interfere with the Will. As such, in typical economic fashion, Southern Cal accentuates and enhances the advantages of this situation with a personnel choice that allows the Will to take advantage of this freedom. Maiava, at 230 lbs, has the requisite ability to read the direction and momentum of the play and the speed and agility to make the play once it is read.
Florida State, too, hasn’t been shy in its production of Weakside Linebackers in the past. Geno Hayes is the most recent; Derrick Brooks the most acclaimed. True to the running theme that FSU produces these freelancers and disruptors in droves while neglecting the equally necessary cloggers and holders, The 2009 FSU defense is well represented at this position: Nigel Bradham, Recardo Wright, and maybe the most talented of the bunch, newcomer C.J. Mizell.
Manning the middle of the park, the Mike Linebacker is often the most recognizable figure in a defensive front. Lining up in the gap between the SDE and NT, he is afforded protection from downfield blockers. However, his role is similar to that of a NT and SDE, in that he is first a clogger and holder and second a disruptor. As such, he must carry enough weight to provide the physicality this inherently congested spatial and temporal (in that everything happens faster in the middle) responsibility requires: anywhere from 240-260 lbs. Southern Cal's Rey Malauaga tipped the scales at 260 lbs, compensating for the slight deficiency in overall weight at their NT position. The propensity of the offense to run its offense through the space the Mike occupies requires this additional size and strength in order to shed blocks and fulfill his role as a holder instead of consistently playing out of position.
As FSUn has referenced, our own Middle Linebackers are of less than ideal size. In a vain attempt to compensate for this, they consistently push themselves out of position either by not maintaining their position in the face of a block, not being able to shed a block, or voluntarily moving out of responsibility in an attempt to avoid a block. Compounded with the already mentioned too-light linemen, this provides the offense with an alleyway up the middle of the field with nary but speed bumps in the way. Unfortunately, Derek Nicholson served as one of these speed bumps at 230 lbs.
However, Jimbo Fisher has proved to be an observant foreman, and we've addressed our needs at this position more adequately of late. Vince Williams, the favorite to win the Mike position for 2009, will more than likely weigh in at 245 lbs. With an above average strength quotient, and a natural leverage that his weight stuffed into a 6'0" frame provides, future offensesshould find the stroll through the middle of the park a little less luxurious this season.
Finally, the Strongside Linebacker serves as the dictator of the LB group in a 43 under scheme. Lining up on the outside shoulder of the Tight End, his foremost responsibility is play-side contain and dictation. While the strongside defensive end holds the playside offensive tackle and <i>cracks</i> (chips) the Tight End or extra blocker, the SAM must also serve in this holding and clogging role. This responsibility is necessary in order to provide the <i>force</i> which turns the play inside for the free and pursuing weakside help to make the tackle unabated (the protected Mike and Will LBs.) To achieve this goal, he must be strong enough to withstand and ultimately redirect play-side pressure: if he's too small, then he will be unable to serve as the dam that directs the flow back inside. The blockade will burst, and the offense will gush through the opening, most likely for 6. Unfortunately, FSU has had a penchant for providing these aquatic tropes. In their decision to employ a SAM whose primary responsibility is coverage of the TE instead of play dictation and redirection, they have rendered the protection afforded to the Mike and Will useless and in vain. Instead, a stronger and bigger SAM would be ideal: Nigel Bradham if the beast is unleashed could swell up to 260 without losing his size (USC's CUshing played at 255). Dams and levee's aren't successful when built with twigs and mud, Dekoda Watson at 225 was composed as such.
The 43 under scheme is a complex, interconnected and interdependent defensive approach. Each position must be manned by a player able to physically fulfill his responsibility. If not, then not only is his singularly manned gap vulnerable, but those other positions that depend on his support are compromised. While Florida State has been a prodigious provider of the disruptive agents employed by this scheme, their effectiveness and utility is dulled by the inability to recruit and develop the foundational parts of the front: NT, SDE, and SAMs. These positions aren't glamorous or flashy. Without their ability to tie up blockers and dictate the space in which the offense can operate, the weaknesses of the WIlls, DTs, and WDEs are made all too easy to exploit. As such, it is the opinion of this blog, as FSUn has already
written at length, that FSU realign their recruiting efforts of the foundational pieces to reflect more closely the ideal case of USC along with a sizable contingent of the top 25.
USC did it not with huge defensive tackles, but rather with great overall size. Linebackers at 250 and 260, and a proper fit for the SDE position at 270lbs. USC is the a shining example for the theory that it's not huge defensive tackles, that matter, but rather the overall bulk of the front 7. In fact, it would be easy to argue that USC's interior linemen were on the small side.
Florida: #1 Defense, 1845 Lbs
WDE J. Cunningham | 6-3, 250
SDE Carlos Dunlap | 6-6, 290
DT Terron Sanders | 6-2, 300
DT Lawrence Marsh | 6-5, 305
LB A.J. Jones | 6-1, 225
LB Dustin Doe | 6-0, 230
LB Brandon Spikes | 6-3, 245
The Gators #1 rated defense totaled 1845lbs in the front 7 and were probably the only unit to come close to equaling both the size and speed of USC. They did play better than USC when you factor in opponent adjustments.
People think of UF's defense as solely a speed defense. The numbers, however, show that this could not be further from the truth. The Gators rarely had to commit 8 men to the box (or 7 against a 4-wide set). They did not fall into the predictable coverage trap that the 'Noles found themselves in.
Boston College: # 2 Defense, 1902lbs.
SDE Austin Giles | 6-3, 283
WDE Jim Ramella | 6-4, 243
DT B.J. Raji | 6-1, 323
DT Ron Brace | 6-3, 324
LB Mark Herzlich | 6-4, 242
LB Will Thompson | 6-1, 235
LB Mike McLaughlin | 6-0, 252
At 1902 lbs, Boston College was able to compensate for their reported lack of speed by maintaining their leverage and being able to fight through blocks within the context of their scheme. They never put 8 men in the box and the size of their defenders allowed them to play slightly wider than a typical team could afford, as they could fight through blockers attempting to turn them out, while still compensating for the lack of burners on the outside.
Wake Forest: #3 Defense, 1875lbs
WDE Matthew Robinson | 6-2, 248
SDE Antonio Wilson | 6-1, 270
NG Boo Robinson | 6-2, 325
DT Dennis Godfrey | 6-3, 320
LB Aaron Curry | 6-3, 247
LB Chantz McClinic | 5-11, 225
LB Stanley Arnoux | 6-1, 240
Wake's defense was truly special this past year. With 8 of the 11 defensive starters being seniors, Wake's defense was maybe the shining example of playing as a unit. Wake's size in the middle was probably under reported by the general media and certainly underestimated by me. They also had large linebackers.
Clemson: #4 Defense, 1785lbs
SDE Da'Quan Bowers | 6-5, 265
WDE Ricky Sapp | 6-4, 240
NG Dorell Scott | 6-4, 320
DT Jarvis Jenkins | 6-4, 300
LB Scotty Cooper | 6-1, 210
LB Kavell Conner | 6-1, 225
LB Brandon Maye | 6-2, 225
At 1785lbs, Clemson is one of the surprises from this group. They had a very experienced group Clemson ran more of a 4-2-5 scheme. Their excellent performance can be attributed to the work of Defensive Coordinator Vic Koenig, who utilized a wide variety of zones. Koenig's work is consistently under appreciated. One team that did spread Clemson out by running non pro-style sets was FSU, as they tallied the highest point total against the Tigers.
UConn: #6 Defense, 1738 lbs
WDE Cody Brown | 6-3, 246
SDE Julius Williams | 6-2, 258
NG Rob Lunn | 6-4, 279
DT Alex Polito | 6-6, 271
LB Scott Lutrus | 6-3, 228
LB Lawrence Wilson | 6-1, 217
LB Greg Lloyd | 6-2, 239
The only Big East School on the list is a bigger mystery than Clemson. So, how did they do so well? They faced Rutgers, UVA, and West Virginia before those teams hit their collective stride.
North Carolina: #7 Defense, 1865lbs
SDE E.J. Wilson | 6-2, 280
WDE Robert Quinn | 6-5, 260
DT Marvin Austin | 6-3, 300
NG Cam Thomas | 6-3, 330
LB Bruce Carter | 6-3, 230
LB Quan Sturdivant | 6-2, 235
LB Mark Paschal | 6-0, 230
CaStauch touched on UNC (above), but they are a model of consistent defense. Like Wake Forest, Boston College, UF, and USC, the Tarheels can take care of an opponent's running game without ever needing to call upon an 8th defender. When you can stop the run with only 7, life is easier. Better yet, UNC can use 6 against a 4-wide receiver set, pulling Quan Sturdivant off the field in favor of a 5th defensive back, while still knowing they have the run threat controlled.
TCU: #8 Defense, 1876
SDE Jerry Hughes | 6-2, 260
WDE Matt Panfil | 6-2, 253
NG Cody Moore | 6-1, 295
DT James Vess | 6-3, 290
LB Daryl Washington | 6-3, 232
LB Jason Phillips | 6-1, 238
ROV 29 Stephen Hodge | 6-0, 228
TCU plays a 4-2-5 attack and they play it well. They are 8th on the list because of their game at Oklahoma, in which they ran some very unorthodox packages, flustering the Sooners for a half before OU took over. They also handled Boise quite well.
Texas #9 Defense, 1807 lbs
WDE Brian Orakpo | 6-4, 260
SDE Henry Melton | 6-3, 265
NG Roy Miller | 6-2, 300
DT Lamarr Houston | 6-2, 275
LB R. Muckelroy | 6-2, 230
LB Sergio Kindle | 6-4, 239
LB Rashad Bobino | 5-11, 238
Texas is an interesting case. Nearly every major team in the Big 12 runs an advanced version of the spread. From Kansas to Texas Tech to Oklahoma to Oklahoma State to Missouri, defenses in the Big 12 have a challenge. Granted, the Big 12's offenses are ovverated compared to their unreachable National Reputation, but they do present unique challenges.
Ole Miss: #11 Defense, 1800lbs
SDE Greg Hardy | 6-4, 280
WDE Kentrell Lockett | 6-5 240
NG Ted Laurent | 6-0, 303
DT Peria Jerry | 6-2, 290
LB Ashlee Palmer | 6-2, 222
LB Allen Walker | 6-1, 225
LB Jonathan Cornell | 6-1, 225
Ole Miss had some injuries on the defensive side rendering them a bit light, but at full strength they were larger. The Rebels did an excellent job against Texas Tech in the cotton bowl, holding Tech to their worst offensive game of the year.
IOWA #12 Defense, 1833lbs
DE Christian Ballard | 6-4, 284
DE Adrian Clayborn | 6-3, 282
DT Mitch King | 6-3, 280
DT Matt Kroul | 6-3, 281
LB A.J. Edds | 6-4, 244
LB Jeremiha Hunter | 6-2, 230
LB Pat Angerer | 6-1, 232
Iowa is a very interesting case. They do not have a defensive lineman over 285lbs!! Iowa runs what I want to see FSU run. Because of their versatility across the line, Iowa is able to drop any lineman into coverage at any time (a crucial requirement of the zone blitz). They create a great amount of uncertainty. Iowa's defense was better than FSU's despite a complete lack of elite talent. Of course, they do have a lot of coaches influenced by Saban and Belicheck.
UTAH #14 Defense, 1707lbs
DE Koa Misi | 6-3, 263
DE Paul Kruger | 6-5, 255
DT Derrick Shelby | 6-3, 245
DT Greg Newman | 6-4, 260
LB Kepa Gaison | 5-11, 230
LB Sylvester | 6-2, 224
LB Mike Wright | 6-2, 230
Utah had 10 seniors on defense and benefited from playing Michigan in it's first game as a spread team and faced Alabama without both of the Tide's starting offensive tackles. To call them a good defense would be accurate. To deny that they were the beneficiary of some circumstance is foolish.
Boise State #16, 1726lbs
WDE Mike T. Williams | 6-3, 248
SDE Ryan Winterswyk | 6-4, 261
DT Steven Reveles | 6-0, 280
DT Billy Winn | 6-4, 282
LB Kyle Gingg | 5-11, 209
LB Tim Brady | 6-1, 213
LB Derrell Acrey | 6-1, 233
Boist played pretty good defense. They don't have to face elite competition on a weekly basis, however, and their game against Oregon (when Oregon lost two quarterbacks) weighs heavily in their overall defensive efficiency ranking.
South Carolina #17 Defense, 1882lbs
DE Clifton Geathers | 6-7, 284
DE Cliff Matthews | 6-4, 259
DT Nathan Pepper | 6-1, 287
DT Ladi Ajiboye | 6-1, 298
LB Jasper Brinkley | 6-2, 269
LB Eric Norwood | 6-1, 267
ROV Darian Stewart | 5-11, 219
South Carolina was big and good. UF did destroy them, but it's important to remember that 21 of the Gator's points came on South Carolina turnovers returned for touchdowns or on drives of 5 yards or less (resulting from a South Carolina turnover). Their defensive coordinator is excellent.
East Carolina: #18 Defense, 1829lbs
WDE Zack Slate | 6-5, 221
SDE C.J. Wilson | 6-4, 271
DT Jay Ross | 6-3, 306, Jr.
NG Linval Joseph | 6-6, 358
LB Jeremy Chambliss | 6-0, 227
LB Pierre Bell | 6-2, 231
LB Nick Johnson | 6-1, 215
East Carolina was an extreme example of using huge defensive tackles and nothing else. Using really fat guys can work in a non-BCS conference when teams do not see quality offensive linemen on a weekly basis, but it's incredibly rare to find 18-21 yearold guys who have control over their bodies at 330+ lbs.
Ohio State: #19 Defense, 1811lbs.
SDE Nader Abdallah | 6-4, 300
WDE Thad Gibson | 6-2, 240
DT Cameron Heyward | 6-6 287
NG Doug Worthington | 6-6, 276
LB Marcus Freeman | 6-1, 239
LB Ross Homan | 6-0, 229
LB James Laurinaitis | 6-3, 240
Ohio State utilized a very stout strongside end to control the strong side. Ohio State did very well against every team except USC, including an impressive showing against Texas in the Fiesta Bowl.
3-4 Schemes (and the 3-3-5 Stack)
I won't discuss the 3-4 at length. Some argue that this is the defense we should run, but I vehemently disagree. Why? Huge men don't grow into their huge body until they are 25 or 26. It's extremely rare to find a Terrence Cody of Alabama or BJ Raji type player. Most of the players who are 330+lbs are uncoordinated and out of shape. The 3-4 defense is heavily dependent on having that fulcrum at the Nose Guard position, and the 'Noles should not bet their year to year defensive fate on consistently finding those kids. If one or two schools do it, that's fine, as they are exploiting somewhat of a market inefficiency.
CAL: #13 Defense, 1831lbs
DE Tyson Alualu | 6-3, 290
DE Cameron Jordan | 6-4, 286
NT Derrick Hill | 6-2, 298
LB Eddie Young | 6-1, 234
LB Zack Follett | 6-1, 238
LB Anthony Felder | 6-3, 235
LB Worrell Williams | 6-0, 250
Cal's 3-4 was a thing of beauty. With 5 seniors in the front 7, the Bears were one of the more underrated defenses in college football.
Historical Note: Cal's 3-4 was essentially the Bum Phillips 3-4 defense and is not the same 3-4 scheme that is run by most 3-4 teams. The Cowboys and Chargers run Cal's scheme, which is very difficult to teach, as it is the rare one-gap 3-4 defense. The rest of the 3-4 teams run Bama's.
Alabama #16 Defense, 1914lbs
DE Bobby Greenwood | 6-5, 278
DE Brandon Deaderick | 6-4, 286
NG Terrence Cody | 6-5, 365
LB Cory Reamer | 6-4, 223
LB Brandon Fanney | 6-4, 257
LB Rolando McClain | 6-4, 255
LB Donta Hightower | 6-4, 250
Extremely young, but big and talented, Bama's defense excelled under the brilliant defensive scheming of Nick Saban. Nobody ran on Bama and the Tide were never forced to use the 8th man to stop the run.
But what about the 'Noles?
Florida State: #20 defense, 1735 lbs.
SDE Neefy Moffett | 6-1, 256
WDE Everette Brown | 6-4, 248
NG Paul Griffin | 6-2, 280
DT Bud Thacker | 6-5, 275
LB Toddrick Verdell | 6-3, 222
LB Dekoda Watson | 6-2, 221
LB Derek Nicholson | 6-2, 232
1735lbs is tiny and appalling. They did not improve or reach an elite level, despite being deeper, more talented, more experienced, and much healthier than the 2007 edition. While the injury to Dunbar and the early departure of Guion definitely hurt the 'Noles, the defense was still entirely comprised of upper classmen. Is 20th okay for a Seminole defense with 11 upperclassmen starters? Surely not. As CaStauch explained (above), the 'Noles were handcuffed by their lack of size and Andrew's scheme. Where other programs have the option of using the 8th man in the box, FSU has forced itself into using the strategy on a huge percentage of downs. With the current personnel, the 'Noles defense has become sort of a high school basketballesque "pack it in" defense. Of course, The "pack it in" doesn't work at the college level and neither does the 'Noles defense as it is currently comprised.
In Table Form, it's easier to see. (BCS teams only, as the small conference teams do not take the same week to seek pounding that the BCS squads do).
| Team | Front-7 Weight (In Lbs) | Defensive Ranking |
| Alabama | 1914 | 16 |
| Boston College | 1902 | 2 |
| South Carolina | 1882 | 17 |
| Wake Forest | 1875 | 3 |
| North Carolina | 1865 | 7 |
| Sourhern Cal | 1860 | 5 |
| Florida | 1835 | 1 |
| Iowa | 1833 | 12 |
| California | 1831 | 13 |
| Ohio State | 1811 | 19 |
| Texas | 1807 | 9 |
| Ole Miss | 1800 | 11 |
| Clemson | 1785 | 4 |
| Florida State | 1735 | 20 |
Look at how small Florida State is. That's very disappointing.
What I hoped to prove from this article:
- Size in the front 7 is a crucial component of a successful defense
- That size in the front 7 does not necessarily need to come from the defensive tackle position. Teams meet their size needs in many different ways.
- The 'Noles get gashed by any offense other than the typical Pro-Style Attack.
- FSU needs to adapt to stop the Non- Pro Style offense and the way they have chosen (solely speed) is ineffective.
Editors Note: We needed to write this before continuing with the Spring Previews on the defensive side of the ball so that our readers can understand where we are coming from when discussing the defense.
In the next installment, we will discuss possible long-term solutions as well as immeidate stop gap measures.
3 recs |
131 comments
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Comments
Stop gap measure #1.
STOP having Nigel Bradham and Vince Williams deathly afraid of even looking at a sandwich. Let the boys eat.
by MattDNole on Mar 11, 2009 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its about time we got back to sports stuff
And this my friends is why I stay tuned. OK now my take on this. If you dont know I love the 4-3 but I have seen the light and know its not a good defence against the spread. Ive moved on to the 4-2-5. Its about the same thing other than one of the LB is realy a SS and plays the out side the other SS comes up and plays the other side and it looks a lot like a 4-4 where the OLB are realy SS. Now with this defence you have 8 in the box. the SS cover the slot WR or there zone and the LB cover the TE on slot sides or the RB/FB. thats is 6 on passing plays and 8 on the run. The SS can contain the QB/RB on the zone reads and the LB can take the middle.
Now as for the size of the line. Yes you dont have to have big TD and FSU wont with the rectuits we got this year and last but they will be a force to reckon with. I would love for them to get some size on them. At the same time we should be able to pull them and place them in different positions. DT playing the DE and DE sliding into the DT spot. kinda like what EB did all year. I realy want to see one DT close to 300lb and the other about 285-295. The DE 240-260 and the LB about 230-245 then the SS’s around 220-230 but they have to have speed so they cant be to big. This would put the front 7 at about 1900lb I know thats a dream. I would rather have a huge DT than over all size because its easyer to get a big DT than everone bigger but not huge.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love the 4-3 but I have seen the light and know its not a good defence against the spread.
It’s a base defense and I think it’s fine in its purpose.
The DE 240-260 and the LB about 230-245 then the SS’s around 220-230 but they have to have speed so they cant be to big.
That is too small. That is close to what we have now. That is not the size we need to compete with the elite.
I would rather have a huge DT than over all size because its easyer to get a big DT than everone bigger but not huge.
Easy to get a huge guy, yes. Easy to get a huge guy who is a great player? No way, especially since they often mature much later in life.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great article.
With a lot of stuff to digest. I’ll re-read this later and comment.
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
excuse my ignorance, because as FSUjab stated there is alot to digest....
but i’m a little confused with a couple of statements that seem to be conflicting:
“The Noles own pro-style attacks”
"FSU needs to adapt to stop the pro-style offense and the way they have chosen (solely speed) is ineffective. "
Maybe I need to re-read article…I thought we needed to adapt to stopping non pro-style, like UF, NC State, BC, etc…
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And I will add...GREAT article. Alot of information. I feel like a smarter football fan just by
reading this site each day.
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great write up
I never really paid much attention to size because I wasn’t sure what was a good size and the specifics of why. This helps a bunch.
In your charts you left our yards/attempt in passing (one of my favorite stats). Against pro-style offenses we gave up 5.5 yards/attempt while against spread offenses we gave up 7.5 yards/attempt. The only reason this stat wasn’t worse is that pro teams threw it 14 more times per game on average. These stats just reinforce what FSUn and CaStauch are saying that we are killing ourselves with poor run defense but they are pretty eye-opening to me.
FSUn, if we were to run the defense you want to (heavy zone blitzing) we’d likely have a smaller DLine, correct? Would we need larger LBs then to stop the run?
by evenflow58 on Mar 11, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent stat and I should include it.
I’m having computer troubles today, along with a follow up for my shoulder surgery and an interview (hooray potential employment).
I’ll add it in when I can edit.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FSUn, if we were to run the defense you want to (heavy zone blitzing) we’d likely have a smaller DLine, correct? Would we need larger LBs then to stop the run?
I want to make a distinction before we answer. I’d like to see us use 4 defensive linemen between 265 and 295lbs, for a total 4 of about 1100lbs, so that we can drop anyone into coverage in the zone blitz (aka "ZB"). Spread teams kill teams who blitz a lot (assuming equal talent), because the reads are so easy. I think the ZB would help us with that.
We do not need to do exactly that, however. We do need to field a defense that is big enough to hold up. A defense that can fight through blocks and maintain ground instead of trying to run around blocks on every play.
In short: Ideally? Yes. Necessarily? No
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know about that.
Yes we would stop the passing part of the spread but thats not what kills us. Its the Running. The zone read is what needs to be shut down. you shut that down and you stop the spread. when a team has no running capability they have to go to passing, we are good against the pass. Also look at the stats spread teams run more because OMG they are going to throw it they run the spread. look at the plays more run and less passes. I like blitzing but its not as good agenst the spread. I dont think having a smaller o-line will help. Its good for the zone blitz but what good will it do when teams run the zone/read 30 plays in a row like BC did last year.
Another problem is we run a lok of man 2. this leaves a LB on a slot/or TE and thats what is killing us on the passes.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry a lot of man 2
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay... but look at the whole picture
If we go with smaller athletic defensive linemen, we will need bigger backers. I’m not arguing that we go small and small, because that’s basically what we have now.
I’d like to see:
SDE 270
DT 280
NT 290
WDE 255
SLB 250
MLB 250
WLB 235
That’s 1830, but it’s a huge step in the right direction
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the balance in that...
235 and 255 on the weakside are slightly lighter (and assumably faster) but if you go TOO light then teams will just adjust accordingly.
However, it also goes without saying that exceptions are made. Everette Brown was a perfect WDE yet he would be grossly undersized according to this.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just kidding.
You have EB listed at 245. I think he weighed in at 235 in the combine though.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but our size got pushed around in the BC game.
So you need to have some size with the DT and De. Not all size but some. you cant have all small DT and DE maybe 1/2 and 1/2 same for the LB you can have some big ones but they need speed too so you have to get some smaller ones for there speed. I think the question would be where is the balance. Vs the zone read (Our Def. needs to fear this play) the RB is going off the Weak side OT or cutting back through the strong OG/OC so I think the weak side needs to be the bigger to force the RB to make that cutback. then the bigger/stronger DT needs to be the Strong side to fill the gap the OG/OC dubble team will do. then when the strong side DE gets blocked out the MLB and OLB need to be bigger on that side. Most teams run the slot week side because that give them the most room with passing and the RB has more open space off the T.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are in agreence.
I just didn’t expound enough on that point. That’s why I liked the balanced weights FSUncensored laid out.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see thats not really small though.
I want to know the size vs strength ratio. with a guy thats 300lb that benches 450lb vs a guy that is 280 that benches 420lb I would want the smaller guy unless the 300lb was just a beast and quick as hell. I know there is more to it than just size. I would rather have a 6’6 DT that is 280lb than a 6’0 Dt thats 300. the 6’6 guy has a better frame to build the size we would want him. This line you show above is not small by all means. it would be in the top 10% for front 7’s. And yes we need to go in that direction.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't work in practice nearly as much as in theory.
Our problem is that we are too SMALL to withstand blocks, so we have to use speed to get around blocks. The problem, as you notes above, is that with the zone read you don’t know where the play will go, and as such, cannot just run to the point where it will end up.
This line you show above is not small by all means. it would be in the top 10% for front 7’s.
Disagree. 1830lbs is probably barely in the top half for major programs.
I would rather have a 6’6 DT that is 280lb than a 6’0 Dt thats 300. the 6’6 guy has a better frame to build the size we would want him.
Agreed.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the voice of reason
I see what you are saying. makes sence
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 12, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the player....
I’m quite happy that Mcdaniel will be play for us…
"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."
Bobby Bowden
by NaGaNole on Mar 13, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explained in a different way...
It’s been repeated that Mickey’s scheme forces the def to use 8 in the box, thus making it harder to defend spread off (because it removes the def advantage of having that “extra defender”). I don’t completely agree. The real culprit is the size. If you had 4 def lineman that can “handle” the 5 members of the off line, then we still have the 7 vs 6 advantage. I think his def is antiquated, but it could work fine with the right players. The problem has been recruiting and strength development. That being said, the 4-2-5 does seem like the ideal def against the spread, but if you’re getting beat up front nothing else matters….
"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."
Bobby Bowden
by NaGaNole on Mar 11, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed... for the most part
Mickey was one of the best DC’s from the 1990s, along with John Bunting and a few others. Andrews made his name loading the box against Pro-Style offenses and daring them to play inside out. He outnumbered them and dared them to get the corner. We’re in agreement. This current defense is still undersized even when facing the pro-style attacks.
Scary thought?
We did fairly well against GTech after their 2 QB’s got injured. It could have been much worse.
I will disagree somewhat with the scheme issue. Mickey has not been able to outnumber the non Prostyle schemes.
His defense also relies on a lot of intimidation. Huh? Yes, Mickey wants teams to be scared of us. This intensity and intimidation idea has become less effective as the coaching in college improved.
As for the 4-2-5, I am against it in name. If you want to use one very small backer who is really a safety, and are still able to maintain adequate bulk (say, 1845lbs), then do so. Do not call it the 4-2-5, however, as nobody in the NFL runs that and recruits care first and foremost about making money in the league. Call it the 4-3 defense.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you are saying about the 4-3 and you are right
I dont understand something what is different between a OLB and a SS then. I thought OLB were smaller but faster LB wouldnt that be the same thing as what they are trying to get of moving SS up to LB.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading this...
makes me wonder why we are “favored” in so many games next year.
by NolenRyan on Mar 11, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe
we’re looking to outscore everyone?
by NolenRyan on Mar 11, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not isnt that how the big 12 is
Which team will out score the other.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought in the 90's
our Def stoped eveyone and charlie ward/ warrick dunn and Chris Winkie/peter warrick did just about whatever they wanted.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much how we did it in the '90's
Yes, the defense was great. But the offense was just as good or better.
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem is...
It has been mentioned before that Jimbo’s offense isn’t designed to drop 50 on the scoreboard everygame. It’s more about consistency, and controlling the game. This may be wrong, I just to rely on outscoring everyone at this point.
by jasonole59 on Mar 12, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
Our defense should be a huge improvement with those that will play at the chronically undersized positions on our defense next year.
We struggled on defense because the foundational positions in the 43 under defense require players that have the size needed to dictate the action. Like FSUn said, we’re basically running two WDEs, two DTs, a MLB and two Wills. Next year, we should replace:
NT Budd Thacker: 275 lbs generously, with Moses McCray: 305 lbs realistically
and,
SDE Neefy Moffett: 256 lbs, with Kevin McNeil: 265 lbs or Everette Dawkins 265 lbs
Now, there is a discrepancy in schematic implementation between those that have changed the 43 under to compensate for the prevalence of spread, option, or simply not-two backs-and-a tight end-offenses. Pete Carroll, Charlie Strong, and those that run this defense much more successfully against the myriad of different looks, like to use a bigger StrongSide linebacker in order to, like I said in the piece, dictate the direction of the play and force it back to the protected and unblocked defenders. While FSU, on the other hand, uses our smallest LB (Dekoda Watson at 221) as our SAM linebacker, preferring the extra ability with which he has to cover the tight end.
Unfortunately, this creates an unbalanced front, where the offense can run strongside with little threat of redirection since their Tight End will almost undoubtedly be able to maul the man with whom he’s matched up (most TEs out weight Dekoda by at least 45 lbs).
We would be much better served allowing Nigel Bradham to put on the weight he would naturally be able to handle without loss of speed or strength and use him as our 255 lb SAM. His play style is already much more conducive to shedding blocks and “bench pressing defenders”. This would also be beneficial for Dekoda Watson as well: his speed and athleticism wouldn’t be jailed by having to shed a block every down, instead it would be unleashed by the protection a properly manned 43 under affords. He would be a terror coming off the weakside with his instinctual and physical gifts.
Another point we didn’t touch in this piece, mainly because it wasn’t supposed to be concerned with schematic questions we’ve accumulated (expect a critique of scheme to come in the next few weeks now that we’ve established the bedrock of needing more size) is that a bigger 43 under allows the 4 defensive backs to play more independently and to lean more towards defending the passes or variety of sweeps and jets and swings that the spread uses. It allows us to abandon the rover position and instead use two hybrid FS safeties.
If you assume that Mickey/ Chuck switch Nigel and Dekoda around, then:
SDE Kevin McNeil 265
NT Moses McCray 305
DT Justin Mincey 295 (and this may be conservative, it has been rumored he wants to be 300)
WDE Markus White 260 (he played at 250/255 last season)
Will Dekoda Watson 225
<Mike Vince Williams 245
Sam Nigel Bradham 250 (he’s 238 now by starving himself and not using legal supplements)
Suddenly things start to look much, much better strictly on the size front. This orientation would also allow us to use the 43 under as it was designed.
On the sunny side, most of those changes are expected to happen, just not the switching of Nigel and Dekoda.
by CaStauch on Mar 12, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so are we going to see Jacobbi McDaniel and
Demonte McAllister, Jacobbi McDaniel, Brandon Jenkins, and/or C.J. Mizell in the line up. I know they are undersized for what we are talking about. I can see what you are saying about dekoda making the move. I like the Sam to be smaller but faster but with the TE play last season we need someone who can take it from them but cover them as well. I think you are right 100% here about that. with Demonte McAllister and Jacobbi McDaniel at about 260+ each could we see them on the out side might we red shirt them tell 2010 and go with what we have.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 12, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we see Jaccobi as our situational NT during
pass heavy downs. He should come into FSU at around ~287 and maybe get up to 293-294 by the time the season comes along. He won’t be able to surpass Moses as our starting NT until he’s heavier than that, but he would be a very good piece to use in pass down situations when we want to put 4 pass rushers on the field; he wouldn’t force us to lose all integrity to defend a run or screen or short play.
I think Demonte is 265 now and comes in at 270, maybe heavier. We have a potential first round pick in Mincey already here, an he’s more than likely cemented himself as the majority minute man at that position. I’d expect McDaniel to play about as much as Moses did last year. But, give him a full spring and offseason with the meal plan and Stroud, and he’ll be fearsome in 2010.
I love Mizell. If we moved Nigel to Sam and Dekoda to Will, I would expect Mizell to be on the field for pass-rushing situations at Will, like Ernie Sims was used his first year. Mizell will be a special teams all american, though, and would come into 2010 as the starter once Dekoda graduates.
by CaStauch on Mar 12, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have NO confidence that the coaches will use Dawkins at end
He is a waste at tackle.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before this season when I was looking at recruits weight...
I use to think, damn these kids are skinny. Why do we have 240 DE recruits, and guys like Ingram and Verdell who look like twigs? The NFL guys are much bigger… BUT Mickey knows what he’s doing. I had high expectations for this senior bunch, and they let me down big time in the BC game. Now it all makes sense. Mickey isn’t the genius anymore, and our guys are way too small. Looking at the projected lineup for next year, do we break 1800?
by DA-2 on Mar 11, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Currently,
we’re basically playing
2 WDE’S
2 DT’S
1 SLB
2 WLB’s
We lack: SDE, MLB, NT and out substitutions are not adequate.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
We have so much talent (albeit Young) in the front 4 right now
that it would be easy to get clever and make that happen….. Key Word: Clever
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent as always.
“Why don’t I see this kind of stuff anywhere else?” Understand that it’s not just because of laziness on the part of “journalists” who take their readership for granted. Most of the experts out there – yes, I’m talking about FSU “experts” – would read this article just like we did (and will sometime today) – and think to themselves, “Wow, I never thought of that. There really is a lot to this crazy game of football. Particularly college football.” Cue Peter Griffin: “I learned something today.” This is fantastic analysis.
There’s a reason the regulars at this site pile on coaches we love like Mickey Andrews and Chuck Amato. And there’s a reason we pile on Chuck Amato. There has been zero (effective) adaptation to the modern offenses in college football.
by TRMNole on Mar 11, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I always like feeling like I've learned something.
I know the grad assistants read this yesterday.
Hopefully Chuck Amato will be gone so that he stops poisoning our program.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Food for thought:
How do the top 10 “heavier” defenses fair against the spread?
Utah beat Bama
UF beat Bama
Could UF’s Defense hold UF’s Offense? Could our best D of the 90’s hold UF’s offense?
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just hypotheticals to help us analyze. I think it’s obvious that something needs to change to stop the non Pro-style. I just think it would be interesting to point to other examples to see if the theory holds up?
UF’s only loss came against Ole Miss, and they are on the lighter side of the list at 1800 (still heavier than us). If I’m not mistaken, they run a form of the spread also.
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The OIe Miss numbers trouble me a bit
I think they are heavier. They look much heavier.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bama was very young, remember
and they did very well against UF if I remember correctly.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they did...but in the end a Loss is a Loss
by jasonole59 on Mar 12, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bama's defensive coaches are the best in the country.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I was thinking (and kind of my point)…They are the heaviest, best coached, and had trouble with the 2 spread teams they played. I believe Ole Miss played them VERY close also.
by jasonole59 on Mar 12, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bama lost ONE starter on defense. We lose 6. Bama wasn't expected to be good. We had every reason to expect to be good.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just playing devils advocate a little. I agree.
by jasonole59 on Mar 12, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did the defense struggle against those teams?
I say they did not.
V Ole Miss: 359 yards allowed on 67 plays (5.4)
V. Florida 358 yards allowed on 64 plays (5.6)
V. Utah 349 yards allowed on 65 plays (5.4)
Those offenses had their WORST days (or one of their worst) against Bama.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thought...
I’m not sure how much we can really rely on these “official” weight statistics. I’d say that it’s pretty common knowledge that all D-I schools fudge with the actual size of their players. Take Everett Brown for example: there was a big hullabaloo about his actual size at the NFL combine. There was even talk of him moving to linebacker at the next level.
I’m not saying that your theory is wrong FSUn. In fact, I think Brown is proof that we’ve padded our statistics upwards. For all we know, FSU’s defense is even smaller than the listed weight. I’m just not completely sold on using other teams listed weights as support for the theory.
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a concern,
All stats came from their rivals.com site. Can we assume that everyone fudges?
There shouldn’t be any “talk” about Everette moving to linebacker. He will have to play linebacker. He is too small even at 250lbs to play defensive end in the NFL.
When is the last time FSU produced an NFL defensive end?? Not an outside linebacker, but an end.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
but there are rare cases of undersized defensive lineman succeed at being pass rushers in the NFL (i.e Jason Taylor who is actually skinnier than EB)
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
However....
he can succeed at LB.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Dolphin fan...
I can tell you that Jason Taylor had tremendous speed and technique. He was a horrendous 3-4 hybrid OLB though. At least at the linebacker part, he had his best pass rushing days as one though. Anyway, both as a Dolphin fan and a Noles fan, I don’t think EB can do what Taylor has done. He’s going to have to play OLB to play in the NFL.
by DA-2 on Mar 11, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think his skills set fits better at OLB. I’m just saying you can’t completely write off an end because of his size. Taylor was a great example of that. But I agree that he is better suited for LB.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 12, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chauncey Davis?
that was what, 5-6 years ago?
by all_day on Mar 11, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's pretty safe to assume everyone fudges.
But it’s not safe to assume everyone fudges upwards. I think someone on TN (was it you?) speculated that BC or some other ACC team actually fudged downwards to make people think they were smaller.
Also, the weight issue is difficult b/c even assuming a team doesn’t fudge, no one can be completely up-to-date and accurate with weight. Shoot, I go to the restroom sometimes and lose 5 lbs! Imagine the fluctuation of a major college athlete actively participating in drills, practices, weight training, and games over the course of a season. A lineman who actually weighed 285 at the beginning of the season might check in at 20 lbs. over/under by the end of the season.
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming EB will be playing LB in the NFL...
was it a mistake for him to leave early? or will he be a 1st rounder regardless?
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chauncey Davis?
Probably Tony Bryant before him. 2 in 10 years.
by The K-Man on Mar 11, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Alex Boston make it to the NFL?
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think so.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He is a member of the Jacksonville Jaguars. I believe he went undrafted though. He was also only 6’3" 225 lbs when he came in
by Nole Holds Barred on Mar 12, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I’ve met Everette a couple of times (very nice guy by the way), and I was kind of surprised at how “not big” he is, especially when compared to his stats….Sure, he’s bigger than me, but I’m not a big guy.
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know about all this..
but recruits across the SE have someone buzzing in their ear about our probation. Should not be a big deal, but these are kids.
http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-football-recruiting/2009/03/10/florida-states-probation-causes-concern-among-football-prospects/
by badknees81 on Mar 11, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, "journalism" at its best...
an article like this should go a step further and state some facts like the FSUn did yesterday.
Any body got an account at the AJC so they can post the link?
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here it is...
You have no idea how much the AJC sports pages are UGA propaganda. Here in Atlanta we have the 2nd largest alumni club outside of Jacksonville. He can get an Ga issued FSU license, but not a newspaper that will cover FSU w/o a LOT of hometown bias.
"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."
Bobby Bowden
by NaGaNole on Mar 12, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant tag
oops…lol
"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."
Bobby Bowden
by NaGaNole on Mar 12, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have to sell papers somehow.
Though there may be a bunch of Nole fans in Atl, you know as well as I do that Dawg fans own the city.
Where in NaGa do you live? I lived in Jasper for a year or so.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 12, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Little town called Fayetteville, just south of Atlanta…
"We're not maxed out, ... The best is still ahead of us."
Bobby Bowden
by NaGaNole on Mar 13, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We DO have an idea because we saw the Greg Reid process.
If the kids don’t want to come after figuring out what “probation” really means, we’ll have issues.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micheal Carvell
Anyone know his email, he specifically states in yesterdays column linked above that it involved “all 10 sports”. We have 18 sports at FSU and that statement is wrong. I have filled out their “feedback” feature on their website to alert them of the falsehood, but they still have not corrected it. So we need to go straight to the writer above, just need his email.
by badknees81 on Mar 12, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
A brilliant and concise article. Thanks for making my lunch break . Keep up the good work, articles like this are why I send all of my friends to this site.
by Nole1313 on Mar 11, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha hope you didn't go hungry.
Glad you enjoyed.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Transition?
Do you think Jimbo has anymore control over the D now than in the past?
I can see us making the transition rather smoothly after this recruiting cycle.
A lot of that will depend on who is coaching on D, but the talent we have now along with a solid recruiting class this year that fills needs could make for a solid, albeit young, starting front 7.
SDE-Dawkins, McCallister, Cummings, Willis
DT-J-mac, McCallister
NG-McCray, McCloud(hopefully)
WDE-White, Stevens, Jenkins
Mike-Smith, Williams
Sam- Bradham
Will-Mizell
by all_day on Mar 11, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I do think he has some control.
Our dinosaur coaches are using Dawkins at defensive tackle. How depressing is that?
I can see us making the transition rather smoothly after this recruiting cycle.
A lot of that will depend on who is coaching on D, but the talent we have now along with a solid recruiting class this year that fills needs could make for a solid, albeit young, starting front 7.
I agree with this. It’s very important for us to emphasize that everyone who plays defensive end will not be asked to be a sackmaster. You are a defensive lineman first, a passrusher second. READ: We need someone (Cummings) who is willing to defeat blocks.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what is the size of the D for next year going to look like
do we have a clue on this. At least an idea of where they are now.
I do know we do have very small LB and that needs to change. We could have a great group of DT and DE in 2010 but what good would that be if our LB suck.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we can improve our defensive scheme against non-pro offenses,
I think this year’s defense has a chance to actually be better than the ’08 version.
I was looking at the depth chart the other day and it occurred to me that the cupboard is not as bare as I originally thought.
by FSUjab on Mar 11, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully.
Talk to me if these guys make it through their spring and summer class load.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great article.
USC is our goal, I take it? I think Florida would be more realistic.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, this is rec'd + buzzed.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recommended and Yahoo! Buzzed.
Look at the very bottom of the post.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been pretty busy and CaStauch volunteered to write a piece about USC, and since there is a ton of literature available on
Pete’s defense, I figured it was as good as any.
I do think Pete’s D has been better than Strong’s over the past few years.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So do I, but I think Florida would be a realistic goal for our defense.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think the defence will get fixed because I dont think MA knows the problem.
The problems is what the spread offence is the play action with the zone read. then you have 6-8 people trying to stop a run and then the pass to the 1 on 1 WR who is open or coverd by the mismatch.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mickey says that he has changed the way he recruits safeties. He says he will go for more cover types at both positions.
Could the be the final phasing out of the antiquated rover position?
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to turn this excellent piece into a recruiting thread, but here is what we are looking at in the front four.
If you needed to know anymore about the change in recruiting, look at the DLinemen we are recruiting now:
c/o 2009: Demonte McAllister (greatest highlight film I have EVER seen for a DL on Rivals) (All American at both), Jaccobi McDaniel (NT or DT), Brandon Jenkins (DE)
2010: Darious Cummings (both), Brandon Willis (both), Denzel McCoy (DT), Tavaris Barnes (both), David Perry (DE), Telvin Smith (both).
There is a pretty good chance these lineman could be on campus in 2010. You can’t forget about Moses McCray and Markus White either.
Versatility is the name of the game.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been waiting to hear some recruiting news...There was someone on here trash talking over the weekend
about how these sanctions would affect the committment of LJ (I assumed Lemarcus Joyner), and we would learn more on Monday. Well monday has come and gone, and I haven’t heard anything.
Don’t think this was a nole fan making the remark, though I’m too lazy to go dig it up.
by jasonole59 on Mar 11, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He said we're not out of it but our coaches are stretched thin.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guy posts on rivals, "bigred" or genron something
Someone said he is the uncle of LJ and he hates FSU, has a couple of posts saying FSU is out of it, but not b/c of the sanctions, but b/c he got offers from Alabama and USC. Who knows….
by badknees81 on Mar 11, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Lamarcus Joyner's uncle subscribes to rivals...
and wants to tell FSU Nation he isn’t going to Florida State? He must really hate Florida State. I
by DA-2 on Mar 11, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ya boy genron!
Miami has a better chance than FSU. FSU is all but eliminated with the additions of Alabama and USC. and now Cooley wants to call…
this post, badknees?
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure what JD's issue is.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like a personal vendetta against someone.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, thats him
It was someone else on rivals that said he was his uncle though, I decided to investigate and it looks like it is or a coach at STA.
by badknees81 on Mar 12, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or he could just be some hothead from South Florida
who dislikes FSU.
by badknees81 on Mar 12, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's legit. Let's not engage in speculation about other members of the site.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he is very legit.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure who you guys are talking about now
JD, Genron, LJ…
by FSUjab on Mar 12, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Genron187
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
genron has gone on the record and says that he dislikes FSU fans.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that is his right.
Fortunately for us, it is our right to let him know that we do not appreciate being lumped together with obnoxious fans when we have been nothing but cordial. Noone here claims that FSU is perfect. Noone here claims that the future is without some hardships. I think we have a general consensus though, that FSU is a great place where there are plenty of opportunities for those who do not waste them. It is also a place where the structure (as far as discipline is concerned) is being improved every day that Jimbo is in his position. It is also going to go through a much more drastic change once he takes over. I like to think the beauty of FSU is that we give kids another shot. Granted, it is not complete charity, but if you have a past, you wipe the slate clean, and if you can keep it that way, the future should be a great one. We kick off plenty of kids. We discipline a bunch of kids. What we do not do is refuse the NCAA at every turn *cough*USC*cough* to keep the appearance of a stellar record. We turned ourselves in, and for the most part we hit an appropriate level of punishment considering that the NCAA did not tack on too much more. We are never going to be Harvard. I am okay with that. IF Genron wants his nephew to get a great education (I am in law school, so is FSUn, and Im sure countless others are doing just fine with that beautiful diploma hanging on the wall,) a great experience (to deny FSU would be a great experience is not even something I will argue about,) and NFL potential (just look at the rosters around the league,) he should not be so quick to dismiss our great University. On the other hand, if he feels like bashing my school, and my fellow fans, well I have some choice words I can share. Like I have said countless times, great luck wherever he goes; but FSU is no backup, it is a desirable destination.
by Miaminole on Mar 12, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know, I wish the kid well wherever he goes
but this uncle is ridiculous. If we are out, then leave us alone. I really dont need to be sermonized to. After he continued with his barrage is when I finally told him here to start making real arguments as opposed to blanket statements, which he could not do.
I hope Lamarcus does his own research as it seems those who are supposed to be looking out for his best interest feel compelled to preach to a bunch of fans why he hates their school. Give me a break.
by Miaminole on Mar 12, 2009 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stretched thin due to the sanctions, spring practice?
We’re still his “dream” school. You can’t give up on your dreams LJ. How soon do the coaches start making damage control calls (if they’re allowed to).
by jasonole59 on Mar 12, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they can make calls right now. If not, they can call the HS coach.
The coach at STA is open to everyone except Alabama, so we are good there.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 12, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we have any shot at McCoy
“someone” I know talked with him the other day.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now if we can get some LB to back
what could posable be the best D-line ever in football history we might have something. But one is only as good as the other.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 11, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, I'll be back later to chat it up.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good luck on that interview.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 11, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Went very well.
Mid sized bankruptcy firm.
by FSUncensored on Mar 11, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear!
I suppose that is a busy line of work right now.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 12, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone worried about the probation rumors...
Or do you think it’ll blow over come the beginning of the season? Could we actually spin it around, and make it a positive for us?
by DA-2 on Mar 11, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm confident it'll blow over.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
by FSUSOM on Mar 11, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maurice Harris
Safe to safe that CTC’s “boy” doesn’t fit into this puzzle. By the way, this was a phenomenal read that I’ll be archiving for frequent reference. You fellas did an incredible job of getting us X-and-Oliterate junkies up to speed. Can’t thank you enough.
by The K-Man on Mar 11, 2009 10:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
This piece has me thinking…..
1) I say this in NO WAY to diminish the quality of this research, but if some dude like TN can come up with this stuff in his spare time, shouldn’t we expect that our highly paid coaching staffs are able to do this type of analysis and change our coaching/recruiting/conditioning accordingly?
2) Don’t we all fear that the answer to the above question is: Yes, and this type of analysis is already being done by coaches like Carroll and Meyer and Stoops.
3) I wonder if there is a correlation between size on the defensive front and scheme. That is, our problems vs. GT can’t possibly be as simple as being undersized. Having sat in the endzone and watched that game, we had scheme and execution problems that were impossible to miss. I wonder if undersized defenses, by necessity, are forced to scheme in ways that make defending non-pro style offenses differently (and less effectively). I understand this question, to some extent, makes up the thesis of your piece.
4) Does anybody think the current regime of defensive coaches is capable of making the type of transition necessary to compete in a world where pro-style offenses aren’t the only game in town.
5) I’m really not feeling good about our record next season. Schedule looks much tougher. I’d put the over-under at 7 right now.
Bottom line: GREAT post — one of the best ever on this blog.
by Fsued on Mar 12, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
4) Does anybody think the current regime of defensive coaches is capable of making the type of transition necessary to compete in a world where pro-style offenses aren’t the only game in town.
I think that point is irrelevant. They won’t have the time to do it in a year. That transition would have needed to start a while back. They could make great strides by moving a couple people around in the Front 7, but Mickey is a stubborn mule.
Regarding Question 1 and 2: Yes. They should. Sometimes coaches get to caught up in the details of the game and execution of the plays they do have that they miss the bigger picture. Also, it provided Mickey with so many years of success that I honestly think he believes he can STILL win with it. The national media does little to diminish his ego, as the talks about speed on our defense takes the national spotlight.
I also believe that when Mickey sees that our defense is in the top 20 he counts that as a success. The nepotisim era did little to curb this as it kind of WAS, with the amount our defense had to take that field. Now that our offense has caught up, I think that mindset is a detriment.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Mar 12, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1) I say this in NO WAY to diminish the quality of this research, but if some dude like TN can come up with this stuff in his spare time, shouldn’t we expect that our highly paid coaching staffs are able to do this type of analysis and change our coaching/recruiting/conditioning accordingly?
Nobody in baseball was focusing on on base percentage until Alderman and Cashman began the process. The main problem with sports is that the people who run it, often were very good players. Why is that bad? They were often good based off their athletic ability, which is irrelevant in running an organization. We have two coaches on our staff who do not use computers. I don’t hold the old guard in high esteem right now, so my answer is "NO", I do not think they have asked staff members to engage in research of this type. Jimbo, and Coley are the thinkers on staff, and they are stretched incredibly thin.
2) Don’t we all fear that the answer to the above question is: Yes, and this type of analysis is already being done by coaches like Carroll and Meyer and Stoops.
You nailed it. Our coaches are not aware of where we stand in relation to the rest of the college football world.
3) I wonder if there is a correlation between size on the defensive front and scheme. That is, our problems vs. GT can’t possibly be as simple as being undersized. Having sat in the endzone and watched that game, we had scheme and execution problems that were impossible to miss. I wonder if undersized defenses, by necessity, are forced to scheme in ways that make defending non-pro style offenses differently (and less effectively). I understand this question, to some extent, makes up the thesis of your piece.
Your second to last sentence. Yes. There is much less deception in a prostyle offense. Against PRO, we can figure out where the play is going and beat the blocker by outrunning him. Try to do that while spread out, and you will quickly be out of position, and then on your butt on the ground as you try to change direction and get pounded by the offensive lineman.
4) Does anybody think the current regime of defensive coaches is capable of making the type of transition necessary to compete in a world where pro-style offenses aren’t the only game in town.
No. we’ve discussed this before, but it’s foolish to think we will compete with Bowden, Amato, Andrews, and Allen taking up 40% of our coaching positions. We are stretched too thin, and some of those guys are not only “0’s”, but are negatives. We should not have to pull a kid aside and unteach what a current coach teaches him.
5) I’m really not feeling good about our record next season. Schedule looks much tougher. I’d put the over-under at 7 right now.
2009 should be a “maintain” year. We lost a ton on defense, and some on offense. The schedule gets tougher, yet somehow people expect a better record. I don’t get it.
My goal for 2009 is to maintain out current level (a top 15 team nationally). I don’t care as much about the record.
2010 is a year for improvement. 2009 is not.
by FSUncensored on Mar 12, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
top 15 ok I can see that but
I dont think the goal should be top 15 more less ACC champs. I think we do that we will be in the top 15. Thats the goal. Its the same thing really but I feel going to the OB will be better for the ACC, and recruiting for us. All we need to to if try to look at the future.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 12, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think some times we worry more about the spread then the teams we are facing.
The spread is not terrorism. There is not reason to fear it. Hell FSU has been running a version of it this whole time. I think If MA can shut down FSU Offence then he can shut down everyone else other than UF and GT (only because UF is just better and GT is too different) Now as for size yes we have underweight guys at LB and on the D-line there is nothing we can do about this. I think the D-line will be ok at least by 2010 we need to worry about the LB though. FSUs said above that is ok to have a small line but you cant have small backs to go with it. We need some size someone needs to hit the weight room hard and drink lot of beer and protein shakes. ok maybe no beer (helps me get weight)
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
by Desman on Mar 12, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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