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Coach Hamilton: An In-Depth Analysis of Recruiting and Player Development

 

Photo from Tallahassee Democrat

Since Leonard Hamilton's arrival in 2002, the Florida State Seminoles have seen an influx of talent that was never expected at a school whose basketball program lurks in the shadows of its football team.

Today, we take a closer look at Coach Hamilton as well his recruiting history and player development during his tenure at Florida State.

Star-divide

Entering the season, there were a lot of questions surrounding Leonard Hamilton and his future at Florida State. Many wondered how long could he continue to rely on recruiting some of the best talent in the country without any tangible results on the national level? In college basketball, success is determined by wins and losses, conference championships and NCAA tournament appearances. With the help of Toney Douglas, Leonard Hamilton led his team to a 10-6 record in the ACC Tournament, a meeting with Duke in the ACC Championship and Florida States' first NCAA Tournament bid in 11 year. With that resume, Coach Hamilton deservedly earned the ACC Coach of the Year Award.

Before getting into the details of Hamilton's career and his recruiting history, we must consider the definition of a good coach. Is it winning percentage? Is it post-season appearances? Is it recruiting? It is talent development? I found this list of things to consider when evaluating a college coach at LFBall's Blog:


- Does The Coach follow NCAA guidelines and directives?
- Does The Coach follow University guidelines and directives?
- Does The Coach run a clean above board program?
- Does The Coach graduate his players?
- Does The Coach manage his staff well and provide good leadership?
- Does The Coach Manage his players well?
- Does The Coach communicate well with his players?
- Is The Coach a good representative of the university?
- Can The Coach actually Coach on game days?
- Does The Coach develop his talent?
- Does The Coach understand fair discipline?
- Does The Coach treat All The Players fairly?
- Does The Coach allow outsiders to have influence on his program?
- Does The Coach win games he is supposed to win based on budgets, and talent?
- Does The Team Compete Every game?
- Does The Coach exhibit the ability to coach, think fast on his feet, adapt,
and lead?
- Does The Coach have the ability to position the team to make yearly post season tournament runs?

As he points out on his blog, this is not an exhaustive list but certainly a variety of interesting points to consider. We all have different coaching expectations and definitions of good coaches. However, keep in mind that we only get to see a sliver of what coaches actually do on a daily basis. We get to see the poor substitution, the reluctance to call a time out, the poor play calling and we experience the win or loss. Compared to practice time, preparation time, recruiting time and administration time, game time is nothing. We know that Hamilton recruits well. We know that his players like playing for him. We know that he inspires his teams to play defense, which is an incredibly arduous challenge.

Hamilton started at Florida State in the 2002-2003 season, leading the Noles to a 14-15 mark that year. Previously, Hamilton coached at Oklahoma St from 1986 to 1990, going 56-63, and at Miami from 1990-2000, going 144-147. He also had a short tenure in the NBA coaching for the Washington Wizards. In his overall career, he is 328-303. His winning percentage has increased with each team. His worst year, by far was the 1991-1992 Miami team that went 8-24. His best year was the 1998-99 team when he led the Hurricanes to a 23-7 record and a 2 seed in the NCAA tournament, losing in the second round to Purdue. During his 21 year tenure, he has made it to the NCAA tournament 3 times and produced 7 NBA draft picks.

Let's take a look at each recruiting class under Coach Hamilton. I will discuss each class here and then comment on specific examples of player development under Hamilton at the end.

Signing Class of 2002

  • Al Thornton
  • Benson Callier

Before Coach Hamilton every coached a game at the Tucker Center, he started on his recruiting career off with a bang. Or did he? Al Thornton was a 6'7 forward out of Perry High School in Perry, Georgia. His RSCI ranking was 100+. Included in that recruiting class were Amare Stoudemire, Carmello Anthony, Raymond Anthony and Chris Bosh to name a few. Al wasn't even ranked at his position by Scout.com and had a 3-star rating. Thornton was the MVP of the Georgia-Tennessee All-Star game and was Hamilton's first recuit. There wasn't a lot of hype to Thornton entering college. Benson Callier was a 6'5 shooting guard out of Grove City, PA who averaged 18 points per game his senior year. He was first team All-State and was MVP of the PA-OH All Star game. Callier only played two years for the Seminoles before transferring to, believe it or not, Western Kentucky. Benson's Blog is here if you're interested. He played in a total of 20 games with the Noles and had limited minutes. More on Al later...One out of two in your first year before you even start coaching ain't bad.

 

Signing Class of 2003

  • Alexander Johnson
  • Von Wafer
  • Diego Romero
  • Antonio Griffin

After finishing 14-15 the season before and 4-12 in conference play, Coach Hamilton was able to land a very strong class that included 1 5 star player (Von Wafer) and 2 4-star players (Johnson and Romero). Griffin and Romero were bother Junior College transfers. Von Wafer, a 6'4 guard, out of Heritage Christian Academy in Cleveland, TX led the Noles to have the Number one recruiting class in 2003. He signed before the college basketball season was barely under way and had received offers from the likes of Indiana, LSU, Maryland and Texas to name a few. This was said about the number 1 recruiting ranking at Scout.com: "1. Florida State: It’s pretty remarkable when you think about it. Instead of Bobby Bowden landing top billing in Tallahassee it’s Leonard Hamilton making waves." RSCI had us rated as the 10th best class and stated that Hamilton had picked up two of the highest rated recruits in FSU history (Wafer and Johnson). That high school class included LeBron James, Luol Deng, Shannon Brown, Chris Paul, Charlie Villanueva and Kendrick Perkins. Wafer averaged over 30 points per game for his AAU team and was named to the McDonalds All-American Team. Wafer played for two years before being drafted at the 9th pick in the second round of the 2005 Draft by the LA Lakers.  Alexander Johnson was a 6'10 4-star recruit out of North Bridgton, ME. Yes...Maine, though he was originally from Georgia. Johnson played in 33 games that year and started 16 for the Noles and averaged 9.5 points per game and 4.2 rebounds. He played 3 years for the Noles and averaged 13.2 points his Junior year. He was drafted in the 2006 draft by the Indiana Pacers.  Diego Romero, despite being a highly regarded recruit, orginally from Argentina, only played 2 years for the Noles after transfering from Lon Morris Junior college. Antonio Griffin orginally signed with the Noles in 2003 but did not enroll due to academic reasons, he played at Scottsdale Community College for one year before returning to the Noles. He only played one year with the Noles. 

 

Signing Class of 2004

  • Ralph Mims
  • Jerome Habel
  • Jason Rich
  • Isaiah Swann
  • Antonio Griffin

In the 2003-04 season, the Noles went 19-14 and only 6-10 in conference play, Hamilton was able to pull in solid class, with Jason Rich being the front runner. Jason was the 7th ranked player by Scouts.com and was a 6'3 Guard from Dr. Phillips HS in Orlando. Rich selected FSU over offers from Florida, GTech, Indiana, Kentucky and USC. Rich was ranked 27th overall by the RSCI in a class that included Dwight Howard, Shaun Livinston, Al Jefferson, Rudy Gay, Glen Davis, LaMarcus Aldridge and many others. Rich played all 4 years at Florida State, averaging only 5.4 points his freshman year to averaging 14.5 points per game in 34 minutes as a senior. Isaiah Swan was also one of the top recruits of the class. Swann was a 6'1 guard out of Rockville, MD and was ranked 40th overall in the RSCI. Swann also played 4 years at FSU. He averaged 5.2ppg his freshman year and average 11.8 his senior year, starting 21 games on a team that included Jason Rich and Toney Douglas. Jerome Habel never played for the Noles. Ralph Mim a 6'3 guard out of Brunswick, Maine was another 4 year player for Leonard Hamilton. He started out averaging 2.8 ppg in 29 appearances as a freshman to averaging over 30 minutes per game and 11 points per game his senior year. As you can see, Mims, Swann and Rich all significantly improved under Hamilton and all played 4 years for the Noles.  The Noles received honorable mention for the recruiting class from the folks at RSCI.

 

Signing Class of 2005

  • Uche Echefu
  • Toney Douglas
  • Casaan Breeden
  • Ryan Reid
  • Jerel Allen

Ah, familiar names. During the 2004-05 season, the Noles went 12-19 and 4-12 in conference play. Clearly, this has turned out to be an excellent recruiting class for Hamilton. We all know and love Toney. Toney technicaly was in the Class of 2004, but he played his freshman year at Auburn then transferred to FSU, sitting out the 2005-2006 season, and that's why I include him here. Toney was the 100th player in the RSCI that year. At his first season at Auburn, he played in 31 games and averaged 35.6 minutes per game scoring 16.9 points per game. More on Toney later. Uche, until the end of the year, demonstrated that he had matured into an excellent power forward. Uche was a 4 star recruit out of Rockville, Maryland and selected FSU over Kentucky, Maryland and North Carolina. See this piece to learn more about Uche. Ryan "The Big Ticket" Reid was a 4 star player coming out of high school and helped is AAU Team win a national title. He selected the Noles over Florida, Miami, Pittsburgh and South Florida. Ryan was considered one of the top players in the state of Florida while at Lauderdale Lakes. He entered FSU at 215 lbs he is now up to 325 and has seen a marginal improvement in his stats. Granted, he is getting less playing time this year than he did during his sophomore season. Casaan Breeden was a three start recruit and played only two season with the Noles averaging less that 10 minutes per game in 56 game. He now plays for the College of Charleston. Jerel Allen was a JUCO transfer from Mott Community College. He played two seasons with the Noles, playing 65 games and averaging 4.2 points per game.

 

Signing Class of 2006

  • Josue Soto
  • Aaron Holmes

During the 2005-2006 season, the Noles captured 20 wins and went 9-7 in the ACC led by Al Thornton and his 16 points per game. So only two recruits after a great season? Playing time was going to be a premium. Al Thornton was heading into his senior year and many of the players mentioned above were getting significant minutes. There was little room for a Freshman to make any impact. Josue Soto was a 5'11 guard out of Jacksonville, FL who was a three star recruit. He was in the rivals top 150 that year and selected FSU over Illinois, Indiana and Wake Forest. He only played in 13 games his freshman year for a total of 54 minutes and a total of 11 shots. He quickly transferred to FIU. Aaron Holmes was considered a 3-4 star recruit that was recruited by a huge number of schools, but Stan Jones convinced him to commit to FSU. Holmes was a 6'5 shooting guard out of St. Petersburg, FL. Aaron is now with the USF Bulls. So this was a bust year for Hamilton. He was only able to attract two recruits and did not retain either of them. No points for recruiting nor development in this one.

 

Signing Class of 2007

  • Solomon Alabi
  • Jordan DeMercy
  • Julian Vaughn
  • Chris Blake

In the 2006-07 season, the Noles went 22-13 and 7-9 in the ACC. Al Thornton had an incredible season averaging 19.7 points per game, 7.2 rebounds and had 40 blocks on the year. He was later drafted by the Clippers as the 14th pick in the NBA draft. Alabi was a 5 star recruit. Demercy, Vaughn and Blake were all three star recruits. We all know what Solomon is developing into: an elite center who will play in the NBA. He has a ways to go but he is clearly on the right trejectory. Vaughn, out of the famous Oak Hill Academy, initially signed with the Noles and is now a member of the Georgetown Hoyas. He was a rivals top 150 player and the 35th best Power Forward. Chris Blake was a 6'4 Guard out of Mobile, Alabama and as far as I can tell in a quick search never played for the Noles. Two of 4 ain't bad and look what you have in Alabi. Demercy had a world of athletic talent and still has time to develop. It will be interesting to see what rotation he and Singleton will have.

Signing Class of 2008

  • Derwin Kitchen
  • Chris Singleton
  • Pierre Jordan
  • Deividas Dulkys
  • Xavier Gibson
  • Luke Loucks

Well...these are the guys you have grown to know and love. Clearly one of the top recruiting classes in the country, Hamilton was able to recruit Singleton a 5-star McDonald's All American, 4 other 4-star players and Pierre Jordan. How this class will develop obviously has yet to be seen. But, we know that Singleton certainly has the talent to be a great player. Dulkys can shoot the long ball in the right offensive scheme. Gibson is secretly developing into an outstanding big man. Loucks is an effective ball-handler. Kitchen was one of the best JUCO players before he transferred. This is a talented team.

Class of 2009

  • Michael Snaer
  • Terrence Shannon

Signing Snaer was huge...and it occurred before we went on our run through the ACC. Terrance Shannon is a 3-star Power Forward out of Georgia. He's a 6'7 190 lbs forward who selected the Noles over Xavier, Georgia, Auburn and Nebraska. Again, he signed before the season started.

Signing Class of 2010

  • Okaro White
  • Ian Miller

I only mention these two to demonstrate that Hamilton is making a serious dentin the recruiting world. Miller is a 6'0 PG out of North Carolina and is already rated a 4-star player. White is a 6'7 Forward out of Clearwater and another 4-star recruit. Both of them expressed interest in the program well before were even close to winning 10 games in the ACC.

Signing Class of 2011

  • Marc Brown

I only learned of this recruit today. I had no idea that we had guys signed this far out. He committed in October of 2007. Marc is a 6'4 185 lbs guard out of Atlanta, GA. I don't know much about him, but he won't be here for a while.

 

I hope this gives you some sense of Hamilton's recruiting success. He has pulled in players from all over the country and at talent levels that wouldn't be predicted by Florida State's success or lack there of.

What has Hamilton done in terms of player development? He took Al Thornton from a relatively quiet player in the recruiting world to an All-ACC Player, 3rd Team All-American and a Lottery Pick in the NBA draft. Here are some graphs to demonstrate Al's development under Leonard:

 

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(If' those charts are messed up let me know. They are working on one of my browsers and not the other. If they aren't working I'll get in touch with the folks at Statsheet)

What about Von Wafer? Ralph Mims? Jason Rich? Toney Douglas?

 

 

 

Clearly,these are some of the bigger names in the recent history of Florida State. But, look carefully at how these guys were rated coming out of high school. Yes, Von Wafer was a McDonald's All American...Al Thornton was not. With the exception of 2006, Hamilton has been able to recruit and retain some outstanding players. The two graphs above are only a small window into proving that Hamilton has been able to develop talent. I think that it is more than these players simply getting better on their own. Plus, Hamilton gets them to play defense like no other. Playing defense is not the glamorous part of basketball. You must be doing something right to get these kids to buy into a defensive system. He has also sent 4 players to the NBA: Thornton, Wafer, Johnson and Pickett (didn't recruit him but coached his final years)

So what are your thoughts on Hamilton? Is he simply a recruiter? Do these results surprise you or do you need more data? Clearly, our retention of players is not 100%, nor is it 100% anywhere else in the country...but we're not a basketball school...yet. I think the 2006 class was a fluke due to the log jam of players that Hamilton had recruited in the prior year. Why go to a lesser known basketball school if you're not going to play?

Now, do I question some of Hamilton's in game decisions and adjustments? Yes. But I have the luxury of watching the games from my couch with a DVR. Does that mean he's a bad coach? No. It might mean he needs to work on his in game decision making. Do I totally love the offense we run? No. But that could easily be solved with an assistant coach. However, without Hamilton, I don't think we would be where we are today. We already have the makings of an excellent team for the next few years, let's see what Coach Hamilton is able to do with it. If you look at the intangibles of coaching, Hamilton is doing all the right things. Based on recruiting and player development, I think Coach Hamilton is doing just fine and I look forward to what other surprises he has for us in this year's recruiting class.

 

 

 

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I can't wait to read this

but seeing as how I have 3 exams this week, I should probably hold off.

OT: The Lady Noles lost to Arizona State in the second round of the Women’s Tourney after an excellent season.

by basbalstr101 on Mar 23, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

It really doesn’t matter how much talent you bring in if you make BAD decisions during the game. Having the right game plan is crucial.
i give him some credit, he does run a good defense but i just don’t believe he can take this program over the hump and make them a true contender in the ACC on a consistent basis.

by ncnolefan on Mar 23, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  

People can give Ham all the crap they want

But chances are we wouldn’t be nearly as good as we are now if we didn’t have him.
He’s raised our expectations and that’s a good thing.

by mittens on Mar 24, 2009 12:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Excellent break down.

Yesterday, I wrote

1. Recruiting
2. Motivation
3. Player Development
4. Scheme and Strategy (includes in-game coaching)

The man is a great recruiter, and a very good motivator. He’s average at player development, and pretty poor as far as scheme and in-game coaching.

Roy Williams is Great at Recruiting, Motivation, Player Development, and okay with category 4. He also happens to have coached Kansas and UNC.

Could we go after smarter players and have a coach that is a bit brighter? Yes, but at FSU, that coach wouldn’t be able to recruit like Ham and thus those smarter players wouldn’t have the athletic ability to pair with their higher basketball IQ.

Obviously, some of these super athletic kids get by without having solid fundamentals.

Is it easier to teach offense or to get kids to play defense?

Honestly, if Hamilton could get our kids to rebound on the defensive end, and would be a little less reluctant to switch screens, I’d be thrilled.

The man can flat recruit. Guess what? He is a stylish, relatively young, cool black coach with NBA experience. I’m not sure if many realize how difficult that is to find or how valuable that is when you are recruiting inner-city Atlanta.

Coach ham has his problems and his strengths. His recruiting is definitely a strength. I had NO idea how good our 2008 class was.

by Bud Elliott on Mar 24, 2009 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Look, I actually like Hamilton...

He seems like a really nice guy. However, let’s not kid ourselves here. It’s not the most difficult sell in the world to get kids to come to the capital of Florida, attend a nationally recognized school with a good-sized fanbase, great facilities, great scenery (if you know what I mean), and play in the best basketball conference in America. Throw in Bianchi’s FAMU theory and you have a recipe for recruiting success with or without Hamilton.

I would also point out that Hamilton’s retention rate is 50% (mean and average). I don’t know much about retention rates in basketball recruiting, but 50% does not sound good regardless of the sport. Imagine if we had a 50% retention rate in football – we’d be playing in the MAC in two years.

I think LH’s lower retention rate is an indication that he’s taking risks on kids. When you take risks that don’t pay off, you aren’t going to have quality depth. I think this really showed a couple years ago when we lost something like 5 games in a row down the stretch and just missed out on the tournament. This year was the first year in a while where it seemed we had some good depth at every position. Notably, that coincides with LH’s best recruiting class in terms of retention. My point is, just like in football, when you evaluate recruiting you have to evaluate the end product, and not get blinded by the initial recruiting “stars.”

Bottom line: I think LH is a good recruiter, not great. He is a good player developer, not great. He’s a good motivator and defensive coach. He is a below average game day/strategy coach. I think LH can get us to the tourney on a consistent basis (every other year or so), which I consider the “next level.” However, I just don’t think he can get us to that “elite level.”

by FSUjab on Mar 24, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions  

"Mike Bianchi's FAMU theory"?

I suppose I can guess and probably come close, but I’ve never ready it. Is it posted anywhere? Does it have anything to do with the ability of getting young black guys recruited to FSU based on 2 colleges full of ladies?

by jasonole59 on Mar 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's ridiculous. The only thing basketball recruits care about is making it to the NBA.

Does he have a theory about Miami and South Beach? What about UF and… um, the nearest swamp or horse farm?

by smash! on Mar 24, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is an excellent assessment.

I’m trying to find some good data about retention rate in basketball. It is a slippery slope discussion because you could have a “great” recruiting class and see the top one or two players in that class leave within a year to go to the NBA. FSU is not typically a program in which players go one and done, so looking at retention rates is a legit discussion. Hamilton pulled in a good number of players early in his recruiting career and there were a number of players that left…there wasn’t any room for them and it’s not like they fled to necessarily better basketball schools. Schools will have their up and down years. UNC for example didn’t bring anyone in, at least according to Scout and Rivals, in the 2007 signing class. They did, however, sign 16 players in the 4 years prior to that, and 6 players alone in 2006. So if you were looking for playing time why would you consider going there? Would you consider that a recruiting failure? Well..no kids but you brought in a truck load in the years prior to that.

I totally agree that you have to look at the final result and production over the player’s career before saying that individual was a successful recruit. I think that Hamilton has identified some players that were not well recognized and developed them into elite players. Obviously, we are not the golden ticket to the NBA but the quality and quantity of players entering the program is steadily improving. By recruiting stars, 2008 was his best year, time will only tell how well it works out for him.

Great post FSUjab.

by TrueCubbie on Mar 24, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's a similar discussion to the one we've been having in football for years.

All those highly rated classes where 5-star kids like Fred Rouse, Callahan Bright, etc., never panned out. However, I think the difference between our basketball & football program is that Ham has taken strategic risks whereas the football program appears to have gotten lazy. Then again, maybe a 50% retention rate in basketball is normal…

Slight correction – the average retention rate may actually be a bit higher. I didn’t realize that Pierre is still on the team. If that’s true, then all of our recruits from ‘08 are still on the team and most of them are contributing. That’s pretty good considering a lot of recruits from previous years didn’t play a single minute.

by FSUjab on Mar 25, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Coach Ham. I really do.

And I think most people like the guy. Like Uncensored said, he’s just a cool guy, and the original qualm we all had when the hire was made was, will he be loyal to us? I don’t think anyone dislikes Coach Ham.

Everyone’s expectations were blown away this year, and every basketball season ends with 32 fanbases leaving extremely disappointed. And that’s not a Bobby Bowden “half the teams lost today” statement, that’s just a fact of the NCAA tournament. The team had an unbelievable year, and once the tourney’s over, we’ll reflect, and move on. I think the big concern for Nole fans now is, how do we know this season wasn’t just an aberration because of Toney Douglas? Let’s cut to the chase: TC, how confident are you (really now) that there will be an effort to bring in this mysterious offensive assistant coach that everyone’s dreaming about?

by TRMNole on Mar 24, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Ding, ding, ding

That’s the million dollar question. TD is gone (don’t forget Uche either)… who’s going to step up? Can Alabi dominate consistently? Will Singleton realize he’s 6-9? Can Kitchen step it up a notch? Can we expect bigger things out of Reid?

by DA-2 on Mar 24, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Crap.

You mean Reid isn’t gone yet?

by FSUjab on Mar 24, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Reid could be an asset to this team

He is a very physical defender, he just takes too many shots. If someone can get it in his head that he does not have to shoot the ball every time he touches it, he could be a big contributor.

by basbalstr101 on Mar 24, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, what about just not passing him the ball on offense?

The guy seems to turn the ball over every time he touches it. He seems to be the true definition of a “black hole” (i.e. TO or bricked 8-footer).

by FSUjab on Mar 24, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s cut to the chase: TC, how confident are you (really now) that there will be an effort to bring in this mysterious offensive assistant coach that everyone’s dreaming about?

Given this year’s success, it is unlikely that there will be any changes to the core group.

The coaches are:
Stan Jones: Associate Head Coach. Has been with the program for 7 years and is Hamilton’s buddy in recruiting. Jones started college coaching career under Hamilton at Miami and coached with Hamilton when he went to the Wizards. Stan has a great understanding of the game and I like his perspective that I have seen during interviews.

Corey Wiliams: Assistant Head Coach. Has been with the program for 2 years and has recruiter associated with everything he has done. He played for Hamilton when he Coached at Oklahoma St. He also played for the Chicago Bulls when they won their third championship.

Andy Enfield: Assistant Head Coach. Has been with the program since 2006. He is currently labeled as our offensive coach and works a lot with our players on shooting technique. He is the one credited with our teams success at the free throw line. He previously was an assistant with the Boston Celtics under Rick Pitino. He has been hired by many NBA teams as a consultant and coaches at many clinics across the world. My interpretation of all of this is that he is a great individual coach but not effective at creating an offensive system. Maybe this is why we see so much one on one play from our team?

Given the ties that Jones and Williams have with Hamilton, it is unlikely that either of them moves. Enfield has the reputation as refining individual talent and shooting ability and is recognized as an oustanding recruiter. All of Hamilton’s assistants are labeled as recruiters and directly correlates with our success in that area.

Do I think there will be any additions or changes? Probably not. I feel that there will be the attitude of don’t rock the boat. But, at least for now things seem to be working in the “big picture.” Whether we all agree with that or not is a different discussion.

by TrueCubbie on Mar 24, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent answer.

Not that we’d expect less from TC. I wonder if we’d all just be a lot happier if the Ball Handling (TO%) bars in the post-game graphs from statsheet.com weren’t always represented as a garnet tower casting a colossal shadow over a speed bump. It’s frustrating to leave games on the floor. This isn’t meant to be any kind of “final word” on the matter (TC’s the expert, not me! – he follows this program like nobody’s business – well, it’s our secret), but I surely hope addressing that stat is priority #1. (And I have to imagine it is.)

by TRMNole on Mar 24, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Great Post TC. You have summed up a lot of my thoughts to a “T”. I want to respond to a couple posts above and didn’t want to use “reply” and hop around different posts.

1) I don’t think FSU is an easy place to recruit top talent. Just ask Steve Robinson. While we do have a new practice facility (Thank you Dave Hart), the Civic Center is not exaclty a upper echelon place to play. Our fans are ho-hum for the most part. We have almost zero tradition. Until Hamilton came here, we were a laughing stock, and our key players were the likes of Monte Cummings and Nigel “Big Jelly” Dixon.

2) I think some of Hamilton’s retention rate “issues” are a positive. If you can’t hack it here, go get some playing time somewhere else. Our football team could use some of these “issues”. I think it is clear that Coach is willing to take a few more risks to find a diamond in the rough. It took a lot of work to get Diego Romero and Derwin Kitchen eligible, among others, for various reasons.

3) As TC mentioned, Coach Hamilton has some obvious weaknesses, but who exactly are we going to replace him with? Last I checked, Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Rick Patino are taken. Maybe we could get Larry Brown or Phil Jackson? We could bring in an up and coming coach from a small school or a failed retread from another program, but I would rather stay with what is working, than take that type of risk. If Coach can continue to grow our program, we will be much more likely to be able to attract a top coaching talent in a couple of years.

4) Unfortunately, at age 60, I don’t expect Coach Hamilton to change his philosophy and pick up a new offense. Hopefully we can bring in an assistant in the future to do this, but I am not holding my breath. The team continues to imrove each year despite our lack of a dominating offense. In the short term I do expect us to improve our efficiency in the current system. As the team matures, they will learn to make the current system work better. Success will breed success. I don’t expect us to start averaging 80 points a game any time soon though.

5) Don’t worry about who is going to replace Tony Douglas. First of all, no one will. Second, no one knew who was going to replace Tim Pickett, Alexander Johnson, Al Thorton, or Jason Rich. We have continued to improve even though all of these players are no longer on the team.

6) Leonard Hamilton will not be our coach forever, but he has at least earned the right to take this team to his limit. Let’s at least see what the limit is before we declare that it is not high enough. In the mean time we will criticize his offense and game calling to our hearts content. It’s what fans do. I am disappointed about the way our season ended but, I am very excited about the next 2-3 seasons.

by TBfisherman on Mar 24, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Tomahawk Nation's basketball posters are in a class by themselves.

Demonstrated all season.

But do you have any Chuck Amato jokes?! I know 173 words that rhyme with breast.

by TRMNole on Mar 25, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is great to have a forum for intelligent and enlightening conversation about the Seminoles.

Selfishly, part of me hopes that the site doesn’t explode, like I know it will, because I fear a degradation of the posts. I know the writers and editors will maintain the quality though and this site is going to be huge someday soon. I know it is already well on its way.

by TBfisherman on Mar 26, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

We're always looking to impliment safeguards against just that

For instance, I’ve been asking people to properly utilize the “fanpost” and “fanshot” option correctly, so that we don’t clutter the fanpost section.

The one thing I struggle with is how to control some of the comments in in-game posting.

by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

visit one of the game threads at DRaysBay and you'll feel a lot better

They actually had to post a review of the no porn policy because the pictures were getting out of hand. Then a fight ensued over whether or not your kids should be able to see your computer screen while on the site. I love some of the content on the site, but I get a little tired of the middle school humor. They are trying to clean it up this year though, and some of the guys are actually really funny.

by TBfisherman on Mar 26, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You summed up alot of what I was thinking...

and I do think recruiting is the #1 job of a college coach these days. Hamilton has been able to do this very well- both traditionally, and creatively- through transfers and junior college recruits. Time will tell if he’ll adapt and expand his offense to our new-look team next year, and if he’ll continue to land future stars. So far, so good IMO.

by smash! on Mar 24, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions  

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