Florida State Strategy Session: Fake Bubble -n- Go
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 2:03 AM EDT
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PrintI probably spend too much time thinking about how Florida State could better utilize their personnel. Last year the Seminoles struggled with an inexperienced offensive line and quarterback. They benefited from experienced and talented receivers. This year should be the exact opposite, as FSU will returns their entire offensive line and a Junior QB with a full year of starting experience in Christian Ponder. This year, Ponder should stand in the pocket and deliver. I worry, however, about our inexperienced wideouts. Corey Surrency is still a question mark, but even he is not that experienced. The 'Noles are working with a talented and athletic but green wide receiver group. Let's just say that route running is not their specialty at this point. (Practice reports have not been positive on the wideouts running precise routes or making the correct option read on a multiple route).
With that in mind, it's absolutely critical for Jimbo Fisher to find ways to get these guys open without demanding that they run precise timing routes. I'm not claiming that we won't run those, as they are an integral part of any offense, but I don't think the 'Noles will make their living running precise routes in 2009. Maybe Lawrence Dawsey will get his guys to prove me wrong. FSU can't count on that, however, and that's why we'll need to find other ways of getting our guys open.
One thing the Seminoles do have is an elite level running game, powered by a cohesive offensive line, talented runningbacks, and the dual-threat of Ponder. There should be no doubt that FSU will be a running team in 2009, looking to stay in favorable leverage downs. By doing that, we can run plays like the one we'll profile today.
Look at the play starting at the "0:24" mark
You're probably thinking "so what, it's a wide open ball to Surrency, but it's against Tennessee Chattanooga." Ponder fakes the bubble screen to Reed, who makes a great fake, then Lobs the ball to Surrency. We ran the bubble a lot last year in an effort to :clear the box" (force teams to defend it and not devote extra men to our running game).
I think this play offers much more than that. FSU only ran this play a a few times last year, and I believe they only threw it once (above). Why? Protection. This play needs time to develop. With 18 year-old kids at the tackle spots and only one consistent lineman in 2008, the 'Noles didn't have that. Early reports from 2009, however, indicate that Ponder might just get that time. In addition to allowing players the time to make plays after the initial play has broken down, good protection affords an offense the confidence to make plays down the field, particularly slow developing plays. The above play is just that.
But can we make a fake bubble screen even better? Without a doubt.
In fact, let's let the Arizona Cardinals help us out.
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e0856c (copy paste for those viewing at work-- tsk tsk)
Drew Lawrence of Sports Illustrated describes the play:
The Cardinals faced first-and-10 on the 39-yard line. The figure shows the Cardinals formation after Larry Fitzgerald motions from offensive left to right (the motion "wiggle" was omitted because the picture is busy enough). The Panthers start in a Cover-2 shell, but Richard Marshall (31) follows Fitzgerald (11) in motion, and one deep safety steps up to cover Stephen Spach (83), indicating man coverage.
This appears to be a tunnel screen to Steve Breaston (15), who jab-steps toward his defender before retreating and turning to wait a pass. Spach and Fitzgerald look like they are blocking for the screen, with Fitzgerald aiming for Breaston's defender and Spach angling toward Marshall. The Cardinals are following standard tunnel screen principles: Block the defending cornerback, create a "tunnel" of blocks inside, then give Breaston a chance to create in the open field. There's even a play-action fake to Tim Hightower to freeze the linebackers.
But this is no screen. Warner's pump-fake pulls two defenders out of position, but Marshall bites hardest. He's so intent on stopping Breaston that he lets Fitzgerald race past him. Marshall realizes his mistake too late: Fitzgerald is wide-open (so is Spach, for that matter), and Warner has an easy throw.
Head-fakes and pump-fakes are an important part of a quarterback's job. It's sometimes called "eye discipline" -- the ability to disguise where you are throwing the ball by looking in a different direction. Warner's body language and pump fake pulled two defenders away from their assignments.
There are two major differences between the Cardinals play and the 'Noles play. First, the Cardinals incorporate a fake handoff in the play, while FSU did not. This is an important wrinkle, particularly if the 'Noles are running the ball well. With a run fake, the playside safety is drawn to defend the run. More than likely, he was thinking pass first, since this is a spread formation. After the run fake, the safety will quickly react to whatever happens next.
More than likely, the safety will think "shoot, I am going to be walled inside while Bert Reed runs up the sideline". As such, he's going to make a hard rush for Reed-- probably too flat of an angle. That might work if the ball was going to Reed. Unfortunately for the now off-balance college safety, Reed is not getting the ball. Instead, FSU will send Jarmon Fortson (or Corey Surrency) to fake block and head downfield. That's a simple release for the young but talented wideout, and something he can handle.
The other major difference is that the Cardinals run this as a "tunnel" screen, where the 'Noles run it as a bubble screen. The difference being that the Bubble typically plays from the hash-out, while the Tunnell straddles the hash and often breaks inside before going back outside. I don't think we need to run it as a tunnel.
The main objective here is to use what we do well (running and bubble screens), to help us do other things well that we might not otherwise be able to do. In fact, the Seminoles are excellent at carrying out fakes as a team-- part of Jimbo Fisher's "do your job" workmanlike offensive philosophy.
We will have more of these throughout the offseason-- probably one per week. This one's pretty basic, and they will get more complicated throughout the offseason.
Additional reading (if you are so inclined):
The Bubble/ Tunnel/ fake set, by Robert E. Lee. (11 pages on the bubble screen!! A must read)
2nd play in this video (think this is where 'Zona got the idea from? The Panthers might want to cover this play).
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Can you believe we wasted this great play vs UTC?
And never used it again.
Kill a fly with an axe - Mickey Andrews, his 1998 playbook
I actually think we did run it a few other times but
the protection broke down, it wasn’t open, or Ponder missed it.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is awesome.
I can’t wait until the next one comes. I loved the use of video and clear transition as to how FSU differs from the Cards and also how it plays into our strengths as a team.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
Glad you enjoyed it.
Fisher has a serious challenge in getting the “non-constraint” (AKA plays that work when the defense isn’t cheating in some fashion) to work. Last year, our dropback (not play action, not bubbles) was nonexistent.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So true.
Thats why a play like this is great, or the option pass. The option pass here is basically the same idea right?
Its just a crying shame this year that we don’t have Gano. If we are even more so a run team this year, we have to have the special teams step up all the more. Right now I would trade Goodman and Easterling or just Reed for a solid punter and kicker. One that can kick it out of the endzone, can make 45 yard field goals like bank, and a punter who puts it at least 40 yards back.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
Associating a run oriented offense with the field position focus.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
Warner's fakes weren't pretty either.
The Cardinals’ play might have been even better had Warner actually made an effort at the fake handoff.
I’m stumped as to why we didn’t use the pump-and-go more often during the season. I know we had pass-pro issues, but a well-executed version doesn’t require more than a couple seconds. This play is actually pretty quick, especially without the play-action fake. If you watch the Chatt. play, the ball is hiked at :26 and Ponder gets rid of the ball at :28.
The Cardinals play only requires a split-second longer blocking. Warner’s also in shotgun which should give the QB more time.
Perhaps folks were afraid of the deep ball? We played against a lot of two-high this past season.
The only team that took away run and short was VTech (BC, WAKE, UF took away run, short, and long, by dominating the box with the minimum amount of players feasible), and we did throw long on VTech.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right. I'm guessing they were afraid of the deep ball b/c of Carr & Surrency.
It’s not a coincidence that BC, Wake, & UF were the top 3 defensive lines that we faced this year (and that we lost each of those games).
Backers too...
BC’s backers are monsters, UF’s are great, and Wake has the probable #1 pick in the draft
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
As you know I love this idea and play.
I love how you can run the play out of 3-4 dif. formations. Something to think about, If the TE blocks and releases up field wouldnt it be better to have him run a post to pos. draw the S off and give the slot WR more room.
This play is so cool because of the 3 dif levels it has.
1) the run – simple zone read option
2) the bubble/slant ( I say the Slant because when the bubble wont work the slant takes its place.
3) the fake bubble homerun.
To run this play the team needs to be on the same page. Ponder has to use the pre-snap reads and then calls the play. I just want to know how many dif plays there are realy within this. If we have a LB on the Slot guy you could see this more next year, but teams are going to fear our running game so I think we will see more man and S forced to cover our slot WR leaving 7 in the box for most of the time.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Good stuff Des
I think we could have this as a check at the line as well, ya know?
The one thing about the slant… if we have the run fake, doesn’t the slant just do the same thing? (draw the safety in?)
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yes draws the S in and the slot could
run the wheel/post. Its the same idea. like last year I cant remember but I think agenst miami we couldnt run the bubble so we ran the slant. then agenst NCST we ran the bubble but couldnt get the slant. Not sure which team we couldnt run them on but I know NCST was one of them.
The slot guy is going to run something outside a fake black, wheel/fly/post so does it matter really if the other runs a bubble, a slant or 5 and in
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Great write up as always
Living in Louisiana I got to see Jimbo’s offense at LSU quite a bit and the bubble screen was very effective and he has made slight changes to fit his personel now. Another of my favorite plays he utilized was the WR screen, or as some tv announcers called it the WR Rub. LSU had the wr’s to run this to near perfection and I’m hoping FSU can do the same.
Thanks, lildrunk
Are you surprised at how we’ve adjusted to the zone scheme?
by Bud Elliott on Mar 26, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Ty Jones
Weren’t we just discussing him the other day. It seems he was the highlight of yesterday’s practice along with Louis Givens. Jones broke a 54 yard TD run. Not bad for a guy who just “finds the hole”. O.K. yeah I am an I told you so sort of guy!
Givens broke one for around 60 yards also back to back with Jones. They don’t call Jones superman for nothing.
Another surprise to me but according to the practice report Toshman Stevens practically lived in the offensive backfield. I don’t think most people expected this type play from him. I hope it keeps up. He was not a heralded player from small school Crescent City when signed but I remember Jimbo jumping on him right away.
Commack even made a nice run and Maurice Harris some big hits. This is what it will take guys stepping up who were not heralded a lot.
Ponder praised Louis Givens indicating the guy is all heart, very fast but sometimes hard to find because of his size.
see I think we run 2rb and 3Wr no Te
then we could have Ty, Thomson, snd Sims as the backs with playaction zonereads all day the other team would never know whos getting what.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I was extremely hopeful of Toshman Stevens too.
It doesn’t seem often that we take a player that wasn’t expected to do much and does. That is pure gold for us and any team that does a decent job of recruiting talent (coaching is another matter and I don’t need to rehash those issues here) in my opinion, paticularly withour DL situation…. but man…. we seem to be doing really well at DE but not DT, is this because Odell goes for all or nothing at DT recruiting?
Maybe Toshman can be a Fluellen type of player (two different positions, but I’m talking about productivity from unexpected sources).
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
I am*, I was checking his Bio and background out this A.M.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one gets to the Father but through me"
Not to burst your bubble...
especially since I was the one on the Ty Jones bandwagon. However, he was running against the 2nd defense most of the scrimmage yesterday.
Also, I think the problem with Jones from the previous scrimmage was that the line was making big holes and Jones was only getting 4 yds a carry. He wasn’t making anyone miss.
Time for a standing ovation
I say anytime we hear an FSU back has broke one for a 54 yard TD it is time to take notice even it is against the fourth team. How many of those have we seen the last few years?
What makes any of you so sure that Ponder is going to magically transform into a pocket passer?
He was miserable last year throwing the ball. Take away his stats vs the FCS schools and the screens, and he had a TD/INT ratio of worse than 1/2, I believe. I understand the offensive line wasn’t that good but it wasn’t horrible, he’d stand 13 yards behind the LOS, no defenders in sight and he’s running to the sideline and not throwing to wide open receivers. Ponder seems like a good guy and someone who really wants to succeed, but I saw nothing from him last year other than good running ability.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
What makes you so sure he won't
When Fisher arrived he pretty much inherited Ponder and felt he was a the best option among the various quarterbacks on hand. He has been fairly optimistic concerning his potential.
Fisher does have a history however of magically transforming quarterbacks into pocket passers at LSU and other places. That is what he does. I would say the odds are better than 50-50 Ponder is going to be a pretty good quarterback. He does have a pretty competitive work ethic and was also injured quite a bit last year.
I would think with protection from his offensive line, accuracy is the main thing he needs to work on now.
I just don't see it
Arm strength? Not very good
Accuracy? Poor
Pocket presence? Poor
Reading defenses? Poor
Finding the open man? Terrible
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Mar 28, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Responding to tdchrisdavis and Doc
The answer of expectations probably lies somewhere between Doc’s unrequited optimism and TDCD’s skepticism.
I understand the offensive line wasn’t that good but it wasn’t horrible
It really was. It was the worst pass protection, I have ever seen at FSU and by a wide margin.
And that, is where we are going to disagree. Our sack rate on dropbacks (not bubbles) was astronomical. Scary, when you consider Ponder’s mobility.
Did this happen in spring of last year? You bet it did. To add to the problem, Mickey didn’t let up in spring at all.
Jimbo spoke of this problem the other day. Ponder was entirely pre-occupied by the rush, and that was exacerbated by the “touched and you are sacked” rule we use in practice, made it so that he never got to develop.
Has it stunted his career permanently? We shall see. There was no way he was going to succeed last year, what with our line having to take half-inch splits, because their bulk could not sustain a simple bull rush from even an average athlete. We were way too small. To be quick is an asset, but not at the expense of possessing the necessary bulk to pass protect. We got torched on edge rushes because of those splits, and they also killed the passing windows (which Ponder, bare;y 6’2" really does need).
If it doesn’t get a lot better (not play action, not bubbles, but bread and butter dropback pass protection), any quarterback here is doomed.
Again, the simple answer is we won’t know. I do know that any quarterback would fail behind the sorry excuse for pass protection that FSU had in 2008. He never had a chance.
Disagree with Doc here
Fisher does have a history however of magically transforming quarterbacks into pocket passers at LSU and other places. That is what he does.
This doesn’t make sense to me, and I can tell you that Jimbo has no intention of doing this. If you meant making them decent passers from the pocket, then okay. This isn’t the NFL and we can use a mobile QB.
But there were times where he had protection
And made terrible throws, and terrible reads.
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Mar 28, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There's having protection and there is thinking you will have protection.
It’s a trust issue. Jimbo was talking about that the other day. Having protection shouldn’t be the surprise.
Typically when this line gave protection, the defense had dropped a lot of guys, not necessarily the easiest read.
Will he be able to trust these guys? Not sure.
I never said i did not like a mobile quarterback
I do like them and I am sure Fisher does also but however mobile they are you still need to be an effective pocket passer.
Yes and I think we are lucky last year Ponder was mobile. He will need much better pass protection this year or he will look about the same as he looked last year.
I am thinking these offensive lineman have to have beefed up a bit for this season. I know I heard Datko anyway had put on 15 pounds. It will be better but I am not sure how much better. I am hoping someone like Priior or Faircloth can at least contribute. They are big boys but that may be asking too much as a freshman.
I would think Ponder’s accuracy should improve this year with a season under his belt.
The line will still be too small this year to play at an elite level.
Prior of Faircloth contributing means that someone is injured. That’s not a good thing.
We still won’t be good in the dropback game, but maybe if we can be average, we can win 7 or 8 games.
You guys are tough
I am thinking 9 or 10 and I will tell you why I think Thomas and Jones are going to be much more effective at running back than Smith was and should have a little more blocking.
I know the defense is suffering stunted growth but I am not giving up on the offense at this point.
According to the practice report Jones and Givens were the big story again, of course Jones fumbled 2 times but he did run off another 42 yard carry to the house and leaped over one defender. (Superman!)
Thomas also seemed to have a great day running the ball also it appears they both were over 100 yards in the scrimmage. Fisher also said Ponder looked better than he ever has and Ponder himself said some guys just were not ready to work today.
I have to assume that is what you were referring to by tailbacks not blocking.
Interestingly Nigel Carr and Mo Harris showed up pretty well for the defense.
We have two undersized track stars for wideouts, and aren't getting anything from the others right now.
I can’t trust the results of that scrimmage (see story on top of page).
Gotta run for now, we’ll continue this later (and probably all offseason)
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