Florida State's Offense to the Seminole Defense: Spread 'em
The Florida State offense had all Sunday to stew over a poor performance in Saturday's scrimmage.
On Monday, the offense struck back. Hard.
Inside we'll look at the carnage.
You'll remember from our Size Matters Article (a must read) that Mickey Andrews defense is crippled by Non-Pro Style attacks, particularly those with mobile quarterbacks with spread or option elements.
| Total Off. | Rushing | Passing | ||||||||||||||
| Opponent | PPG | Plays | Yds | Per Play | No | Net | YPC | TFL's | Att | Comp | Yds | TD | Int | Sacks | Dropbacks/ Sacks | QB Rating |
| Against Pro-Style | 19 | 65 | 270 | 4.1 | 31 | 83 | 2.6 | 10 | 34 | 17 | 187 | 1.2 | 1.2 | 4.3 | 8.8 | 100 |
| Against Non- Prostyle |
28 | 60 | 385 | 6.4 | 39 | 235 | 6.0 | 7 | 20 | 11 | 151 | 1.5 | 0.5 | 0.8 | 28 | 138 |
After running a good bit of Pro-Style stuff on Saturday, Jimbo threw our 4 and 5 wide sets at Mickey's defense.
From Seminoles.com, here's what happened (my comments appear in Bold)
SHORT-YARDAGE SITUATIONS (3RD &2)
* Markus White got into the backfield but Jermaine Thomas was able to break a long run to the outside. DE loses contain...
* Christian Ponder ran for a first.
* Ty Jones ran for three and another first in the same situation.
* Jones picked up another first despite Nigel Carr bursting into the backfield.3rd-AND-LONG (?) I'll ask about this, but I think it should be 1st and long.
* White started the drill crashing the pocket just as Ponder got the ball off to Bert Reed for a short gain. I like that we are hearing White's name as a disruptor.
* Thomas busted a long gain but the play was called back due to offensive holding.
* Ponder and Reed hooked up for a short gain again but this time Reed made a defender miss and turned it into a 64-yard TD reception. The defender was Corey Mangum, and I am told he played horribly. If he starts on this defense, I honestly think it will be the worst Seminoles defense in my lifetime (born today, March 31st, 1985).To get more reps, Ponder, who worked the entire half scrimmage, opened the set with the two's. Good. I like to see this. He's wearing a non-contact jersey.
* by connecting with Rod Owens twice.
* Louis Givens then took in another short swing pass and went 64 yards for a TD but another offensive holding penalty wiped out the play. The 2nd 60+ yard play in the 3rd and long situation. 3rd if you count Thomas' run.
* Ponder put up his own big gain as he ran for over 50 yards on a designed run. Ponder is declared "tackled" if he is even TOUCHED by a defender, because he's wearing a green jersey. He ran 50 yards without anyone even toughing him.
* On the next play Thomas went 64 yards for a TD of his own. This is the 6th (though maybe 7th) play of the day that went for 50+ yards. The defense allowed many of these on 3rd and long.
* The defense was on its heels after for the third consecutive play the offense had a big gain with Ty Jones running for nearly 25 yards. 3rd and long... another TD run. Mickey is not able to teach our guys to play solid defense anymore and that saddens me.2nd-AND-LONG
* First team recorded a sack.
* The two's had a QB pressure from John Johnson (is this MiniBar?) followed by a motion penalty.
* Ponder completed two short passes between a false start penalty.Maybe our defense is really good at 2nd and long?
3rd-AND-SIX
* The first team defense started the series with Everett Dawkins and Kevin McNeil chasing Ponder who was able to get the ball off to Thomas on a swing pass.
* Ponder avoided another sack by Justin Mincey this time to hit Reed but the play was short of the first.
* Mincey got his sack of Ponder on the next play.The defense played a lot better here, and it's nice to see Mincey working with the 1st team again. The 'Noles desperately need him to play at an all-conference type level.
* The two's came on the field and the Brandon Jenkins show got under way. On the first play the early enrollee chased Ponder out of the pocket causing the QB to throw a pass that Nigel Carr was able to break on and knock down. * Jenkins followed that play with the first of his four sacks.
* Ponder used his feet for a big gain when Johnson forced him out of the pocket.3rd-AND-LONG
* Ponder connected with Jarmon Fortson for a big gain despite being pressured by Dawkins.
* Nigel Bradham read the next play perfectly and wrapped up Jones on a screen pass for a minimal gain.
* The highlight of this series was a deep jump ball that Rod Owens came down with between three defenders on a 3rd-and-10.So, 3 plays on 3rd and long... 2 big gains...
2nd Teamers
* The Jenkins show continued on the next series for the two's. He and McCray chased Ponder out of the pocket and then the next play Jenkins took Ponder down. Moses with the 2's... interesting.
* The final play of the series was a deep ball to Corey Surrency that Dionte Allen broke up.RED ZONE
* The one's didn't get much done as Kevin McNeil forced an incomplete pass followed by back-to-back sacks by Carr and McNeil. I've heard McNiel is playing better than expected and Carr's instincts have impressed folks.2nd Team
The two's didn't get into the end zone either.
* Ponder threw to Reed in the end zone but that pass was incomplete.
* Ponder completed a short swing pass to Owens as Maurice Harris pressured the passer.
* Ponder could not connect with Surrency in the end zone from the 16.TIGHT ZONE (I think this means inside the 10)
* McNeil began things with another sack and then Ponder's pass to Fortson was incomplete in the end zone.
* Ponder did connect with Thomas but it was for only three yards.2nd team
* Jenkins recorded his third and fourth sacks on the first and third play sandwiched around a short Ponder gain on a run.GOAL LINE
* The offense scored three TDs.
* Two came via Jones' runs and one was a Thomas run.
* The biggest play for the defense was Patrick Robinson knifing into the backfield to wrap up Jones for a seven yard loss but the play was wiped out due to an offsides call
The offense spread the defense out and ran the ball, which is exactly what NCST and Florida did. Mickey still has no clue how to account for a mobile quarterback operating out of the spread.
The damage: I counted 9 "big plays", which we will deem to be 25+ yards. That's not an exact science, but I read these reports religiously and it seems to be the cutoff line FSU Sports Information likes to use. 2 of those were called back by a holding penalty. Of the 9, 4 or 5 went for 50+ yards.
This is a nice job by the offense, but consider that we were already doing this against defenses similar to FSU's (Clemson, Miami, NCST, GTech). Unfortunately, our defense was also gashed in this fashion last year. Worse yet, our defense is not able to simulate the looks given by Wake, and BC, which is troubling. I'm just concerned because the defense did well on Saturday against some offensive sets few run anymore (ProStyle), while getting predictably gashed by our spread sets.
- The Good: the backs ran well and didn't dance, which is what our scheme calls for.
- The Bad: their pass blocking is still horrible. Plain and simple: Dexter Carter is not getting the job done as running backs coach. Fisher apparently pitched a fit today. I'm skeptical of Carter's chances of remaining on our staff once Fisher takes over. It's rumored that Trickett basically had to coach Antone Smith how to run in our scheme after being displeased with Carter's work. Thomas and Jones really need to get it together. Pass blocking for a tackle has a lot to do with ability, but for a back it is almost exclusively effort and understanding of the scheme. Do our backs want to block? They better, because Jimbo will bench them if they don’t block. Even in the NFL, backs do not get away with refusing to block. Sure, there are limited exceptions. Edgerrin James was a notoriously lazy pass blocker, but neither Thomas nor Jones are at a level where they can get away with not pass blocking.
- Ponder has not thrown an interception this spring and he has looked more composed in the pocket. No word on if he is still staring down the wideouts.
Non-embeddable video here: (scroll down).
Daily Links
Facebook Group: "Give Louis Givens a Scholarship, Baby!"
Andrew Carter on Ponder. Welcome back, Andrew!
Help a Seminole out in a big argument he has with a Gator! (Doc Holliday, get on this)
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Comments
This is why I'm scared of the South Florida game
Are we really confident Mickey will know what to do when they put 4 or 5 WR with Grothe running around?
I can see us getting many sacks and TFL, but also giving up some huge plays on busted coverages.
Also, how mobile is BYU’s QB? They seem to play a lot of 4 WR. Their TE’s are basically WR’s in most sets, and they could run the ball last year.
We need Reid and Downs to be ready to contribute right away….
USF doesn't impress me but their scheme is something that gives us fits.
BYU’s QB is not mobile, they don’t run zone reads, and they lost their best wideout. I worry about them because they are a very veteran team and it’s a cross country road trip.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
If John Johnson is the DT I think he is, that dude needs to join the cast of Little People, Big World.
This is good news to me.
Jimbo is teaching our defense how to play against a spread option type of offense. After getting burned time after time in practice, they’ll have to learn something right?
That is kind of what I was thinking as well
If the defense is not able to practice against a non pro style how are they to get any better. The knife cuts both ways.
Additionally, the defense WAS able to adjust and ended the practice just about as dominantly as the offense started.
It is encouraging that they improved.
Apparently the offense went for 15 yards PER SNAP.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice quote from Ponder
On the blocking of the offensive line:
“They are doing a tremendous job. Since the first day of spring ball I have had a ton of time. I’m sitting back there and I feel relaxed because of the time I have. They are doing an amazing job.”
I also read from AC that Ponder seems to be settling down with the happy feet as well and developing more of a pocket presence.
Also, we need some perspective here:
take the spring practice reports for what they are worth. Spring scrimmages are generally used to evaluate your talent and determine ways you can utilize certain personnel in certain schemes. Hopefully, the coaches are realizing that some players just aren’t cutting it at this level (i.e. Korey Mangum)
If we’re going to pick on the defense for getting gashed, should we not also be lauding Brandon Jenkins as EB reincarnated? No, because Jenkins is a true freshman and probably won’t be a starter come this fall. Likewise, I don’t take too much from the spring mini-scrimmages when one unit dominates or falters.
Yes, should have priased BJ a bit more.
I am worried because this isn’t a fluke. We’ve seen this for the last two years and now we are struggling with it again.
I think we need a youth movement on defense.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree re: youth movement idea.
If this really is MA’s final year, I think he’ll have a shorter leash on some of the senior underachievers. I agree with you that Mangum should not be playing. I’ve been saying that since he got beat badly last year. Also, his pants don’t fit him right or something, anybody else notice that?
I don't generally check another man's pants...
If this really is MA’s final year, I think he’ll have a shorter leash on some of the senior underachievers.
See this is where I worry. Will he want to leave the seniors out there to try to put the best possible defense on the field so he’s remembered in the most favorable light possible? Why would he be interested in developing guys for the future when he is gone?
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You watch a bunch of guys wrestling around in tights!
If the underclassmen are better “playmakers,” I think he’ll play them.
Jenkins had 4 sacks
b/c he “took advantage of an equally inexperienced tackle at times.” Per the TD.
This is why I don’t put much merit in what occurs in spring practice/scrimmage. We have no idea what is actually happening unless we see it with our own eyes. Even then, one person that sees a long run may say “that was an incredible run by the RB.” Another person, watching the same play, may say “that long run by the RB was terribly defended by rookie so-and-so.” Which is true? Maybe both, but we don’t get to evaluate the play with our own eyes.
Let me put a finer point on this.
64 yards— short catch/run for TD
64 yards— short catch/run for another TD
50 yards— running play
64 yards— running play TD
25 yards— running play
etc.
Seminole.com says the defense cranked it up in the second half. That’s what other pudits are saying. I’m confident that’s what Mickey thinks too: we got more intense, so all will be well. We have something to “build on.”
Huh-uh. Almost every defensive stop was by QB sack. That’s what Mickey likes; that’s what his scheme depends on. Our D got to Ponder because (a) it’s a green shirt “proximity tackle” situation and (b) our OL still has grave weakenesses our opponents don’t have.
And that’s exactly why we haven’t lately, and will never again, stop the likes of WF, GT, USF, etc, ad nauseum, with any frequency, as long as Mickey is the DC. He does not understand modern spread offense philosophy.
Mickey’s antiquated, sack-happy, intimidation-based scheme is sure to consistently take a program with 10-2 or even 11-1 talent and turn it into a perennial 8-4 program, at best.
How much longer will people put up with this?
The intiidation idea is the key.
I’ve hit on this before but haven’t really gone in depth. This scheme does depend on teams fearing us. We don’t have athletes that are so far superior to others now. Nobody does. College football has seen the talent spread around as kids don’t want to sit for 3 years.
I wonder how many of those sacks would really be sacks if the green jersey came off?
You mentioned that our OLine has a grave weakness. If it’s pass pro, I am want to disagree, without even having seen then yet this year. A lot of these sacks have been on the backs.
I am not against the sack. I am against selling out every play to get to the QB and leaving yourself exposed to a big hitter on a huge % of the plays.
I don’t know anyone I rely on for info who thinks Mickey will be here in 2010
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
In 2010
I love Mickey as well. He’s my favorite coach we’ve ever had, including Bobby. Rarely complains. He’s had a difficult situation. I mean his son died abruptly what, just two years ago? he had to put up with some very difficult work dynamics when JB was OC.
We have 2 guys who are over 60 running our defense, they have no interest in learning new stuff, and are riding out their time here, cashing checks, and rotting out defense.
by Bud Elliott on Mar 31, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me say this about Mickey.
Bobby gets all the press because of his way with people, but Mickey saved his bacon on numerous occassions. He was hired in ‘84 to supply the missing element in Bobby’s program- a big time D, and he delivered in the 80’s-90’s. It wasn’t Mickey’s fault Bobby called off the dogs too early and too often against Miami, and forced our D to stay on the field and wear out so Miami could come back and beat us. Bobby was right that defense wins championships. He was wrong that that’s all we needed against Miami. With better offensive handling, we’d have 2-3 more MNC’s— due to Mickey.
Our defense did decline in the 2000’s, but early in the decade it was Mickey’s unit that kept our record from being worse than it was. Now our D has become a liability, and Miceky should take a well-earned retirement rather than try to reinvent his scheme.
Bobby has gotten the accolades and the millions over the years. But if anyone deserves a nice parting gift, it’s Mickey.
MA is a competitor.
He wants to win as bad as anyone else. Does he know how to stop the spread? Apparently not. But that doesn’t mean he can’t or won’t learn.
I assure you that Jimbo is helping him with it – albeit by complete embarrassment in scrimmages. My concern: will he be willing to man up and make necessary changes, knowing that this may be his last year?
I think we all realize..
mickey will not have our defense blitz like crazy once the season starts… I wouldn’t be suprised if hes just trying to fire up the defense. Who knows, jimbo might be asking him to bring pressure. No one knows more about what is going on with the team then they do.
I do agree that people like cory mangum have no business starting.
However i do hope Mickey is trying to make the changes he obviously needs to make to improve our defense..
last year good off bad Def
looks like better Off worst Def. We need to get some new people on campus.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I don't understand why Mickey cant adjust to the spread.
That is a very common offense in this day and age. You would think he would spend all offseason watching tape on how to defend it. I am getting sick and tired of it.
because he wants to stick with the 4-3
The 4-3 OMI is a great Pro-style Def but is sucks agenst the spread. the 4-3 puts LB out on WR or make you man up with the FS/SS on WR with no one to help out. You can try a nickle package but then you leave 6 in the box agenst a option run. I know its not close but in NCAA the game I have switched from the 3-4 to the 4-2-5 where you have 1FS and 2 SS. you can have 6-8 in the box at any time. We talked about hybred SS this is a great place for them. you want to go after the 1/2 LB 1/2 SS becaues they can contain, runsuport and cover WR if needed.
The other reason is MA doesnt run Zone or if he does its not often at all. He runs a man up Def that leaves CB on the island. Then you have to bring the SS/FS up to cover the Slot guy. In the 4-3 that leaves one guy back to rome where in the 4-2-5 you could have 2 when not blitzing.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
We need to play more zone
Particularly when trying to stop the run.
The one thing Des didn’t say is that we don’t have the SIZE. We don’t make teams one dimensional, and thus we get burned.
It’s not about 3-4, 4-2-5, 4-4-4, 10-10-10, it’s about being big enough to STOP PEOPLE WITHOUT COMMITTING AN EXTRA DEFENDER TO THE BOX.
Size. We are just too small. We can’t stop the run without using the extra guy and we will continue to get roasted.
well if that the case
we need to try to make the best of what we have and hope our Off can out score the othere team. We are not going to get bigger over night or over the summer. Its getting guys in here that can get the weight on and keep it.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
you know its funny
Back to NCAA the game. I have started to recruit DT with more size and less stars and only work on there STR. The DE I work on ACC and STR and LB mostly ACC and Tackle. Thats about it. If FSU would do the same it could help. you said before all 1850+ lb dont have to come from the DT alone but from the front 7 as a whole. Our LB need to get the weight on just as much as the DT and DE need it. Im not saying a 300lb LB is what we need but going from 220 to about 240-250 isnt out of the pic.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Do you play online?
I do now.
You are so right brother. Bradham should not be afraid of putting on muscle, ya know??
Yeah, but isn't Bradham already over 250?
You want to have size, but size while maintaining speed – especially at LB.
Understandable.
His muscles might force his skin to rip away from his body if he starts drinking Myoplex for the first time.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/26923/nigel_bradham_shitless.jpg
Great Quote
Nigel Bradham
On what the defense needs to improve:
“We just need to start being better playmakers. We aren’t doing what we have to do to make plays. The coaches will talk to us about that and we need to do a better job of it.”
Clearly that is the perfect solution to our defensive problems. It seems like our promising young linebackers have bought into the MA system….
This one's even better -
“They played with emotion, they played with excitement and that’s the way linebackers are supposed to play,” linebackers coach Chuck Amato said. “They had a little fun out there. That was really good. Now can we do it again?”
Dude, what are you talking about Chuck?
Are linebackers supposed to run around like chickens with their heads cut off?
Yeah, at least "poise" is closer to playing assignment football...
than “emotion.”
Look, I’m all about our players being pumped. But when your coach is preaching playing with emotion like it’s the #1 rule, you’ve got a serious problem. What about tackling, fundamentals, playing your assignment? It’s no wonder our defense looked like shredded wheat against GT & UF.
GT Enthusiasm Scheme
Thacker and Griffin enthused the hell out of the Georgia Tech center on Dwyer’s first TD run. Thacker emotioned his right leg and Griffin excited his left leg.
so do you think we will see more of an empty backfield this year
or will we see the same stuff we ran this year. I think we should stick with what we have going from last year and just improve on it. Ponder didnt go down the field as much last year because he didnt have the time. This year we should be able to add that in. but going to 5Wr Im not so sure about that. Also do we realy have 5WR to put on the field at one time.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I think it will depend on the defense we face.
I think we spread USF out, but probably run I-Form on BYU.
I don’t think Fisher is a genius and have said before that it’s sort of silly for us to call him that (not that you did, just sayin’), but I do think he usually comes with a very good game plan.
Agreed although
I think so far it has been hard to tell.
So far the OLine hasnt given him the ability to call extended plays which in turn narrows the play book.

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