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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin's Game-Winner Was Incredible, Worth Remembering

Discussing using his body to get position after making a catch:
"Greg (Carr, former FSU receiver) talks about doing that stuff," Reed said. "I'm playing the position Greg played. I never knew how much individually, you are over there by yourself. There's nobody else over there, so you've got to be depended on by the quarterback to make plays and get open."_ Bert Reed

almost 3 years ago Recruiting_image_tiny Bud Elliott 43 comments 0 recs  | 

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Confuses me

I don’t understand the logic in the move. Bert Reed, soaking wet and with cleats, is 5’11 165. That’s lighter than most field cornerbacks we’ll face this season. Our offense last season was predicated heavily on edge blocking from the wide outs, both because of scheme (generally, zone blocking will predicate a more continuous blocking line from WR to WR because the hole isn’t predetermined; thus your hole could be the hole any play, whereas man-blocking schemes don’t necessarily involve both WRs) and because of our propensity to run the wide zone read / bubble screen.

Does anyone honestly see Bert Reed clearing out a team mate for a bubble? It feels like an egregious misallocation of valuable resources and an obvious economic inefficiency.

I want to believe that this is being done just as a “spring stint”, one of those oft-handed position changes that are immediately washed out when the season begins in earnest in the fall. Maybe he’s being put there to aggravate the susceptibility our Man-0 defense has to spreading athletes out? Bert Reed burns our corners —> Mickey puts in more Man Under-2 (we did see more of this coveted defensive scheme during the Spring Game.

Or, maybe it’s a portent of what’s to come? It is my opinion that there is no true “Jimbo Fisher” offense. Instead, our HCIW usually chooses to customize our general offense around general archetypes that emphasize the best of what our best players do. Like, in 2007, where we had an OL that was more built for defending the Pass Rush, and a QB in Xavier Lee that had a legit NFL arm that could challenge every quadrant of the field. So, we ran much more pro-set and a good bit of NFL route combinations, like Deep Comebacks, Deep outs, Quick outs, and Deep Posts.

Maybe Bert Reed is being moved out to flanker because we’re to see more of this in 2009? That Jimbo has deemed the OL proof enough against the pass rush and either Ponder or EJ composed enough and capable of throwing these routes? Reed simply as “slot wr” would be wasted in this scenario, because his speed is too much of an asset to be on the bench.

Or maybe that speed being Bert Reed’s most redeemable quality is why he’s being moved outside. Perhaps the Staff feel confident in our incoming Bubble threats (Chris Thompson, maybe Wilie Haulstead (he ran a 4.37) or Lonnie Pryor, in addition to Louis Givens). Admittedly, I believe Bert Reed’s elite repeatable acceleration (as in he’s able to stop and go and stop and go at full speed multiple times per play) and game-breaking speed makes Bert Reed our best bubble threat. He’s usually good for 7+ yards and is always a threat to go deep if he can find a seem and remain untouched.

But when he was touched, he’d often go down immediately. Maybe the staff has noticed this as well, and has deemed that we need a more “break tackle-ly” threat on the bubbles. It’s nothing more than a lead sweep jettisoned from the interioir congestion, and usually runners that run behind lead blockers are capable of breaking at least one tackle.

Concurrently, I guess they see Bert Reed’s speed better utilized to “create” his own space on regular route combinations? Create the separation so that he doesn’t get touched at all? This makes sense, but…

…. I still come back to the caveat that we’re basically removing a blocking option. We run too many bubbles and outside-seal dependent running plays for this to be a sustainable move, in my opinion. The Running Game, as we saw it in 2008, but with more carries from the two backs that were better suited for our blocking scheme, is going to win us games in 2009 before the passing game does.

The plusses of this move don’t outweigh the negatives.

by CaStauch on Apr 7, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Great analysis CaStauch

I can’t wait to get Rodney Smith on campus.
If Dawsey gives him the coaching he needs, he will be an absolute superstar at Carr’s vacated position.

by Zach_Nole on Apr 8, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not as thorough as CaStauch's, but...

Reed and Carr are both deep threats in their own way (Carr by jumping, Bert by speed)
Carr refused to block, while Reed is incapable of blocking.
Both are/ were poor route runners.

by Bud Elliott on Apr 7, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions  

route running

what quality makes a receiver a good route runner? Ability to replicate the same top speed and timing on a particular route?

by NorthernHaze on Apr 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Attention to detail

Ability to replicate their opening break. They say Jerry Rice ran the same opening 3-5 yards on every single route.

Practice.

Somebody told me Reed has severe adult ADD, which could explain some of the erratic play.

by Bud Elliott on Apr 7, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely that

But also:
-the mental ability to remember the exact steps and speed to run on each play
-natural agility to break crisply (reed has this in swathes)
-some physicality to “body out” as Reed was trying to say, the cornerbacks so he doesn’t interfere in the route.

It seems that Reed only really has the ability to do one of these things, this move just raises so many more questions than answers for me.

by CaStauch on Apr 7, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it comes down to combination of factors:

Predictable, accurate and reliable are a few things that come to mind. If a QB know his receiver is going to run a deep in, or a shallow post or a boomerang route and the receiver is supposed to break at X yards, that receiver better break at X yards and run his route at the correct angle. If the QB knows where the receiver is going to end up, he can look off the coverage and throw to a spot, meeting the receiver at a later point in the route. It has to be consistent. Plus, it has to be deceptive. You can’t give away your route as you leave the line. No leading with the shoulder, leading with the eyes. The receiver also has to be able to read a defense on the fly, just like a quarterback, knowing if the corner is playing deep off the line you can run an short hook route, if he’s playing man leverage on the inside, you have room to press him to the inside then fade out to the side line. You have to be able to find the holes in the zone.

Reproducible. Accurate. Reliable. Acceleration into and out of cuts. Being able to stop on a dime. Understanding defensive schemes. It all adds up.

by TrueCubbie on Apr 7, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we were planning on making drastic changes on the personnel orientation of our WR corps

I would have much preferred that they considered moving Bo Reliford from “traditional TE” to “Cornelius Ingram in UF’s offense TE”.

That’s to say, basically a strongside and bunched Wide Receiver. He has enough speed and body control to run rudimentary routes and pose natural mismatches against Linebackers and bigger Safeties, while his 6’7 height makes him almost invincible by a cornerback not using perfect technique (but it can be done).

It’d also assuage the concerns that have sprouted in some with Corey Surrency’s departure and allow us to keep future 3 time All American Strong Safety Willie Downs at Strong Safety.

by CaStauch on Apr 7, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions  

That reminds me...

Jabarris Little is already a bust.

He weighs 225lbs and is not even performing on the 3rd team. The staff is completely underwhelmed with him :(

I expect we take two tight end/ hback types this year.

by Bud Elliott on Apr 7, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ja'baris Little busting is going to do nothing but

confirm and aggravate suspicions that this new staff has of Lincoln.

Their new coach is going to have to do quite the wonder in order for his school to be considered a “Jimbo pipeline” like Lowndes and Byrnes.

Both of which “recruit” at the High School level, so much better schools from which to establish pipelines.

by CaStauch on Apr 7, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad this was posted...

I read this earlier and was scratching my head. Unless Bert Reed takes Weight Gain 4000 religiously from now until August, he’ll get pushed around by most CBs.

I have a feeling Fortson will be starting over there.

by coonhound on Apr 7, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I saw this ...

And wrote it off as a misattributed quote. I thought there is no way Reed is playing Carr’s old position.

by FSUjab on Apr 7, 2009 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Bizarre sounding.

" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"

by FSUvaFan on Apr 7, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reed is probably playing Carr's position as a motivational ploy.

If we are to succeed this year, we are going to need Bert to run routes longer than 5 yards. Carr’s position required ALL of his routes to be longer than 5.

Bert has got the short stuff down, we need to get him work running real passing plays down the field.

I agree that Fortson will probably be the guy at this spot once the season starts, and Bert will go back to being a slot guy. But we need to get Bert some experience doing some different things.

by MattDNole on Apr 7, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Harvin

Managed this role quite well despite being very undersized. I’m not saying Reed is at his level, but the speed and explosiveness is there, just needs to make improvements in his route skills, which I guess he has a disadvantage in.

But I agree, Fortson is going to be the new guy, but Reed might need this sort of motivation to learn better skills to make him a much more versatile threat from the slot if he would devote more effort to improving his skills and not just athleticism. I’m assuming Jimbo isn’t planning to run the Meyer offense, but I think Reed is our most dangerous asset at this point. He was nasty last year when his job was simple, but if he could develop some more, he could be very, very effective.

Are Givens’ hands still terrible? I’m reading about his catches, and getting a little excited.

by Njfoshizzy on Apr 7, 2009 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Percy Harvin was also 5'11 205

Not 5’11 165. Besides Speed and Acceleration, there’s no comparison. Percy was a special athlete.

by CaStauch on Apr 7, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was

only 178 as a sophomore. I know Bert is a lame 165 but I’m just saying he is reasonably close in size and speed, however, I don’t think Bert can put on the weight to make that leap. He needs to bulk up, quick. I agree, Percy was an unbelievable player, but I just meant I guess it could work if Jimbo wanted it to.

by Njfoshizzy on Apr 8, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

Percy Harvin at 178 his freshman year was not asked to do the things we’d ask Bert Reed to do at flanker. Instead, he was used like Bert Reed last year, but with admittedly more inside runs because of his inherent toughness and ability to withstand contact—some thing Bert absolutely lacks.

Percy Harvin at 189 his Sophomore year saw additional flexibility in the way he was used, but still not to the point where it would approach what we’d ask Bert Reed to do in this, his RS-Soph year.

Percy Harvin at 205 his Junior year of college (third year), however, was asked to do the same things, as you accurately point out. However, Bert Reed will also be in his third year of college this year, and he’s 40 lbs short of what Percy was.

I love Bert Reed, I love the unique dimension he brings to our offense, but he’s not Percy Harvin. The Gates will miss him much, much more than they think. He was good for 14 points and 3 flipped fields a game.

/Va Homer

by CaStauch on Apr 8, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gatorzone.com sucks

They are only site that lists him at 178 as a sophomore, so I see your point there. I guess I’m just hoping something can change and give us a playmaker like Harvin out of nowhere and give us an edge, but yes, now I see there is no hope of Reed catching Harvin at all. Very disappointing…

Still, I think this is a very interesting move, and challenging our players is what needs to be done. I’m glad to see we aren’t babying the wideouts and are expecting big things from them because we need them to overachieve, not just get by. Hopefully a few of them can step up.

by Njfoshizzy on Apr 8, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reed Blocking

I would certainly tend to agree with you guys in the sense that Bert Reeds weight is a problem. I do realize ideally we would have a heaver receiver outside and would like it if that became the case. I must say though that if Bert Reed accepts the challenge and decides that he wants to block he can even at his less than impressive weight and stature. The way of blocking I am talking about is the Cut Block which I have seen our guys use just not nearly enough.

 I am not trying to be harsh but there is nothing a guy who has NFL potential hates more than having someone cutting across their knees and thighs to block them. The reason it works so effectively for undersized guys is that it doesn’t require you to sustain a block that which you obviously cant. With the speed of our backs and receivers by simply cutting the DB down they will have run past him by the time he gets up. On those bubble screens it takes our guys 2 seconds from the time they catch the ball to hit the alley that we would open up by simply cutting the defenders down. The double bonus to that is after cutting a guy down enough times, he will anticipate the cut block coming thus stopping his feet as our guy runs right past him on the fake bubble screen and go.

I will tell you from first hand experience the Cut Block is also a great way to slow down nosey secondary players. If they love to come up in run support taking the knees out of a guy causes him to break down before the moment of contact. It works well when your trying to block linebackers as well, you simply engage them and whatever way they try to release you allow them to and you take your helmet and shoulder pads right across their thigh boards. Ok again guys didn’t meant to rant just a little first hand experience and knowledge.

by 21nole24 on Apr 8, 2009 2:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Additionally

He can be a ‘run off’ guy and would not neccessarily have to block as much.

With his speed a db would have to respect his run off or be torched unless there is significant safety shaded help over the top.

by RollinNole on Apr 8, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good point

“Run off Guys” is how normal “man to man” blocking schemes that aren’t zone-based treat the WR’s responsibility, usually.

The “play-side” RB is expected to block only if the play is attacking the corner; if its an inside play or not to his side, a run-off will do.

But, we attack the corners so often with our outside zone-reads and bubble screens (which are running plays that accrue passing stats), and rely on a zone-blocking scheme where there isn’t a prescribed hole, that we cannot rely on this technique.

by CaStauch on Apr 8, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that the negatives outweigh the positives with Reed on the edge. But wouldn't it be nice, for a change, to have a "burner",

on the outside edge, as long as he is able to run crisp routes, so that our only long passing play option is not just the jumper (ala Carr and Surrency). 21Nole24 makes excellent points about cut blocks and how we don’t seem to know how to use it effectively, and how the smaller WR’s need to learn how to, because l don’t really think Weigh Gain 4000 will be a viable option.

Also, not trying to be Debbie Downer but since we are talking about Reed, I hope that the Parker dismissal and the Owens arrest are a real wake up call for Reed, because he has already used his three strikes and I don’t think the WR corps could take another hit if he screws up again.

 I think Carr blocking, or lack thereof, was a motivational issue, as opposed to Surrency who seem to enjoy getting physical. I also believe Surrency’s downfield blocking will surely be missed.

by FrankDNole on Apr 8, 2009 12:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Willie Haulstead

If they come in ready to play, its amazing how much of an upgrade he and Rodney Smith will bring to our WR corps.

Willie ran a 4.37 at Florida’s Friday Night Lights his junior year. His coaches say he was even faster his senior year. We never saw it because he played on a broken ankle last season. But the potential to be a burner is there, and the best part is that he’s 6’3 and 215, so we can expect him to be able to block 5’10 185 corners when we throw bubbles to his side or run the zone in his direction with ease.

by CaStauch on Apr 8, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rodney Smith

Also primarily ran a bubble style run based offense in high school with very little down field passing.

I’m betting hes well versed in blocking too.

by RollinNole on Apr 8, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be frank

it’s unfortunate that the coaching staff needed a big-play receiver to the point where they didn’t hold him accountable for a lack of effort. There should not be any room on the team for players who don’t apply themselves to open-field blocking, especially on the team with the best run game in the ACC last year.

Is willie haulstead really capable of running a 4.4 at 6-3 and 215lbs? There are NFL receivers that big who can’t run a 4.4. With half a brain for running routes it sounds like he could be very special. I certainly don’t mean to suggest he could play in the NFL because there is obviously more to being a professional than being athletic.

by NorthernHaze on Apr 8, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

He ran it at FNL

And given their “accelerated 40 times board”, it seems that their staff has a quick trigger finger on 40 times.

But, it’s all relative. The point is that he ran one of the fastest times for a WR at that camp, at that size. Whether it was a 4.3 or 4.4 or 4.5 or 4.6, it doesn’t matter. He was faster than the CBs, that’s all.

by CaStauch on Apr 8, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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