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Mike Martin, Micromanager: Why FSU's baseball coach prevents his team from scoring runs

Editor's note: This story was originally posted on May 12, 2009.  Rather re-writing a new article every time Mike Martin makes the same stupid mistake and has his team bunt in the first inning, we decided to just repost this one.  Expect to have this story memorized by the end of the season.

 

Last Saturday, FSU baseball took on Georgia Tech in Atlanta.  The 'Noles won the game, 8-6.  Even though we won, I was saddened by the Noles performance.  Why?  With the first two hitters of the game reaching base for the 'Noles, FSU's #3 hitter, Mike McGee stepped to the plate.  1st & 2nd, no outs, tie score, top of the first.  Florida State coach Mike Martin had him sacrifice bunt.  In the first inning of a tie game, Mike Martin had his best hitter sacrifice bunt.  Mike Martin has won a lot of games in his illustrious career, but many believe his poor managing cost the Noles a shot at numerous championships over the years.  Martin has never won a championship, forever the bridesmaid.  

Martin_mike_medium

via www.fsu.com

I knew that bunting in that situation was absolutely the wrong move.  I knew it's been proven time and again and that it's not a matter of preference or a mere judgment call.  I just didn't know how wrong.  For that, I turned to Beyond the Box Score, the award winning baseball analysis site.  These guys do the same kind of work that professional baseball teams pay a lot of money for.  For instance, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are now run by a bunch of Ivy League Graduates who embraced advanced measures of defense, eschewing fielding percentage for a better measure that actually gauged how much ground a fielder covered.  The point is, these guys know what they are talking about.  Teams who don't embrace new baseball thinking are falling behind.  We saw it with the 2008 Mariners (who jumped on board  for this season after losing a ton of games in 2008), and now see it with the entire Houston Astros organization.  Unfortunately, we now see it with Florida State. 

I went to Beyond The Box Score and asked for their help:

Greetings from TomahawkNation, the FSU wing of SBNation.

We have a problem.  On Saturday, against Georgia Tech, the 'Noles had men on 1st and 2nd with no outs, in the first inning of a tie game.  Our #3 hitter, Mike McGee, an elite hitter, is at the plate.  Our manager had him sacrifice bunt.

Our stats are here:  http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html

I understand bunting here is wrong, that it slightly increases the chance to score 1 and only 1 run, and really decreases the chance to score more than 1 run.  What I am looking for is someone to tell our readership just how stupid this move is.  How much does it decrease your chance of winning?  How much worse is it to do this in the college game than the pro game?

Any help would be really appreciated.  Our readership is very intelligent and they'd love to see something like this.

Star-divide

TusconRoyal, one of their authors, quickly responded to our cry for help.  In fact, he tailored his analysis specifically to the Seminoles, using the 2009 season's performance to date.

1. Go to this results generator  and enter in your team data and/or league. Here is a link with discussion on performing this analysis for a High School Team
2. The results will be calculated and the table you want is labeled: "Run Expectancy Matrix" and "Run Frequency Matrix"
3. Using FSU’s team stats I get:

1st and 2nd, 0 outs: 2.246 runs scored on average
2nd and 3rd, 1 out: 1.723 runs scored on average

Mike Martin's move cost the Seminoles  0.5 runs on average. 

Average_runs_scored_medium

Ouch.  Half a run on average hurts there!  (That's very significant).  He wasn't done, however, as I quickly found out I had made an incorrect assumption...

If you go down to the Run Frequency Matrix, you will find this pretty disheartening:

1st and 2nd, 0 outs: 0.728 chance of scoring
2nd and 3rd, 1 out: : 0.705 chance of scoring

So by bunting, the team will score less runs (~0.5) and has less chance of scoring (~2%)!

Here's a  link to the exact math breakdown

There is no reason to bunt in that situation.  It hurts the Seminoles chances of scoring as many runs as they can.

Chance_of_scoring_medium

I was wrong!  Bunting didn't help a team to score one but only one run, it hurt the chance to score any runs at all!   Why?  The metal bats, smaller ballparks, and poor pitching.   In the college game, every out is that much more precious than it is in the pro game.

In pro baseball, a sacrifice bunt will typically increase a team's chance to score one run and only one run, while significantly decreasing a team's chance of scoring more than one run.  Practically, this means that bunting in professional baseball before the 9th inning, when a team knows exactly how many runs it needs to tie or take the lead, is foolish.  Until the point of certainty is reached, teams should play to score as many runs as possible.  In college baseball, however, it's unforgivable.  

Martin's bunting is handcuffing the 'Noles, and it has for years.  In fact, the 'Noles have sacrifice bunted 25 times this year-- almost an entire game of outs given away through poor decision making by Mike Martin!  FSU hasn't been unlucky in the post season.  Martin has set up his teams fo failure and heartbreak.  Games that should have been won by a small margin turned into heartbreaking close losses.  Games that should have been blowout wins were turned into close wins, needlessly taxing the bullpen by creating unnecessarily close situations.  That's a result of Mike Martin now allowing his team to score runs at their full potential.  He's essentially the restrictor plate on Seminole baseball.

That's not all.  Even though I didn't ask, the experts opined on another area where Martin is holding FSU back...

 

Another point looking at Florida State is that they don’t steal successfully enough considering the extremely high run environment that is college baseball.

By "run environment", he means the likely outcomes of FSU's hitters hitting and the typical high scoring nature of college baseball.  Since college baseball is so high scoring, anything that makes less than judicious use of outs must be questioned.  FSU is such a good hitting team that any unnecessary out is magnified-- more than it would be with a lesser offensive club, and much less than it would be in pro baseball (where fewer runs are scored).

The team is currently stealing bases at 76% clip (70 for 92)

If a person goes from 1st to 2nd with 0 outs, they increase the amount of runs scored by 0.116 (1.634-1.518).

If the the person gets caught, the amount of runs scored drops by .995 runs (1.518 – .523).

So for the team to at least break even running the bases, the need to have a .90% or better success rate.

For FSU this year, they have gained 8.352  runs stealing bases (.116 x 70), but lost 21.89 runs ((92-70).995), because they have gotten caught stealing.

Ugh.  So, we've cost ourselves a full game of outs via the the sacrifice bunt (25), and have lost 13.5 runs as a result of foolish basestealing!

You might think that a 90% success rate just to break even in  stolen bases is extreme, but it's a direct reflection of the high scoring nature of the college game and the proficiency of FSU's hitters.  Again, we want hitters to hit.  Creating outs via bunting or stealing bases takes away opportunities for our excellent hitters to hit the ball off a non major-league pitcher, in a small ballpark, with an aluminum bat.  Good things happen when metal strikes leather.

As the more detailed explanation shows, and as major league baseball teams paid millions of dollars to find out over the last decade, anything that unnecessarily risks an out in an inherently high run environment is to the detriment of the team.  

Maybe Mike Martin didn't know the damage he was doing.  Maybe he didn't realize just how good his offense could be without wasting outs.   After reading this article though, he will be on notice.  He hurts the Seminoles scoring chances each and every time  he sacrifice bunts or calls for a steal. 

[Editor's Note:  last year we encouraged everyone to E-Mail this article to the coaches.  With these instructions:]

If you do E-Mail, make sure to discourage the team from doing anything which unnecessarily risks an out.  We want to stress that scoring runs is very important, and that we want our Seminole batters to have the opportunity to hit the ball with an aluminum bat as many times as possible each game.  Cut out the bunting and stealing!  Remove the handcuffs and let this team score like we know they can! 

[But we know they have received the E-Mails and that Martin will continue to hurt the team's chances of scoring the most possible runs.  It's no longer necessary to e-mail and is a waste of time.]

 

A huge thanks to BeyondTheBoxScore.com for assisting us with this project.  Please visit them and check out all they have to offer.

 

GO NOLES!!

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Question about your numbers

I agree that sacrificing in that situation is bad. However, do we know that McGee was asked to sac bunt? I was unable to see the game so I wasn’t able to tell but if the third baseman is playing McGee back, I would think dropping a bunt is a smart play. Many college players, especially those hitting in RBI positions are taught to do this to keep defenses honest. These kids are less worried about stats than their major league brethren so dropping that bunt is more common in college.

Looking at the box score makes this tougher as they’ll usually show anything as a sac or fielder’s choice when batter is out and a runer advances. The box score will also not likely show a bunt that ended in a base hit, which could further skew the numbers.

Basically I’m pointing out that different intentions can have similar consequences but they should still be treated differently. I don’t know if that’s the case with the GTech game but it wouldn’t surprise me if that were the case with a few of those sac bunts unless you have another way of finding that information outside of the box score.

by evenflow58 on May 12, 2009 8:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

possibly

Even, you do have a good point asking whether or not Martin actually called for the sac bunt. However, I would be shocked if in the top of the first inning our number three hitter up with two men on the batter is thinking let’s move the runners over as opposed to “I’m going to knock the cover off this ball.”

FSUnc, as per usual very interesting and good stuff.

by fsubrb on May 12, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thought isn’t neccessarily to move the runners over but rather the batter notices the third baseman is playing deep and there’s a lot of room to lay one down. I’ve seen many a FSU batter get a nice infield single off of this.

by evenflow58 on May 12, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was a sac

I was watching it and was incredulous that the announcers were praising the move.

I’m not anti-bunting against a big lefty ship.

by Bud Elliott on May 12, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mom's been watching FSU play baseball for as long as I can remember

and she’s not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But she’s always told me that in big games, “Mike Martin’s you-know-what tightens up”

by The K-Man on May 12, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shame, Shame, FSUn

You of all people should know it’s the Tampa Bay RAYS – the Devil has been exorcised. :)

Great article as usual. So, am I understanding your premise correctly? A team should NEVER sac bunt unless they absolutely have to at both the college & pro levels?

I think you also have to look at the pitch count of when the sac bunt is called for. For example if a batter has 2 strikes on him, IMO it’s much better to get the bat on the ball then to risk a SO. A SO would be a complete waste of an out, whereas a sac bunt almost guarantees that the ball is put into play. On the other hand, any idiot would tell you not to bunt on a 3-0 count.

by FSUjab on May 12, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In the college run environment, the sacrifice but should only be used in 1 case.

With the sacrifice bunt, it should not be used by this team unless it needs only 1 run and there is a runner on 2nd with 0 outs. The following is the Run FRequency Matrix (chance of scoring in any run/out situation):

Run Frequency Matrix
Bases 0 outs 1 out 2 outs
xxx 0.406 0.256 0.114
1xx 0.553 0.376 0.181
x2x 0.669 0.495 0.286
xx3 0.860 0.690 0.317
12x 0.728 0.546 0.307
1×3 0.872 0.705 0.331
x23 0.872 0.705 0.331
123 0.912 0.774 0.419

Lets look at a couple examples.
Runner on first, 0 outs, sacrificed to 2nd (1 out now). Chance of scoring initially is 55.3% and goes down to 49.5%
Runner on second, 0 outs, sacrificed to third (1 out now). Chance of scoring initially is 66.9% and goes up to 69.0%

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on May 12, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bunting with 2 strikes is usually frowned upon because if you don’t get it down fair (on a 0-2 count you’re likely to get a tough pitch to bunt) you’re out.

by evenflow58 on May 12, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes bunting is a defensive manuever. If I square around that pitch is thrown at my head the most likely reaction is to move the bat in the way of the ball as I bail. This isn’t likely to produce a good bunt.

by evenflow58 on May 13, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Epstein is also a HUGE Sabremetrics guy

Wish Joe Maddon read this … Weird because there must be a system disconnect as Adam Friedman and Co subscribe to these theories from what I understand

by Cigar City Nole on Mar 14, 2010 11:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Andrew Friedman.

And Joe Maddon virtually never sacrifice bunts.

Tools Whore

by Tyler on Mar 15, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most AL teams don't bunt much because of the DH.

"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."

by tricknole on Mar 15, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The DH makes it the wrong move.

"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."

by tricknole on Mar 15, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats show you're more likely to

score a run with a runner on 1st with 0 outs than on 2nd with 1 out? In MLB.

MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Trick is right."
"Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed."

by tricknole on Mar 16, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another thought:

You may want to sac bunt in the first inning when you have runners on if you have a pitcher on the mound with a low ERA. I know GT is supposed to have a good staff this year. Also, the guy we faced on Friday night was undefeated I believe. The guy on Saturday may not have been that kind of an ace, but I’m just throwing general reasons out there why you might sac bunt.

In other words, I think you have to consider the entire situation, not just the statistics. The stats on sac bunts are pretty convincing though.

by FSUjab on May 12, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being a fairly new reader, here are a couple of questions I have, if you don't mind my asking.

How long has this site been up and running?

Has anyone at TN ever emailed ANY FSU coach with any suggestions/facts/research?

If yes, has ANY FSU coach replied, even in form letter?

Finally, would you agree that our main sports coaches (football, baseball, basketball) are not very interactive with their fans, like some schools may be, in terms of accepting any ideas/advice in any form? My gut feeling is NO.

If my negative thinking is correct this could be due to the current coaches ages, their lack of computer knowledge (this whole ebay/internet thing is confusing), and technology that they are not familiar with.

AC recently had a post asking when Bobby will start using Twitter, in jest of course, because Meyer, Pete Carroll, and many others are now using it.

While the concept of coaches tweeting is absurd to me, as well as the whole Twitter concept in general, IMHO, (I don’t care in 140 words or less when you will be going to take a crap or how LOL you thought something is, and I hope Twitter disappears before long, but sorry I degress), until we get some younger blood running the show(s) I don’t think we will be fully taking advantage of the technology which is available to us. I forget if it was Meyer or Nick Satan who made the NCAA ban the use of text and emails to recruits. Now the more savvy coaches are using Twitter, which is still allowed by the NCAA, to reach recruits. I don’t know if the NCAA can or will take any action to prohibit this, but my whole point is that we are not the most technologically friendly university to the best of my knowledge.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/06/SPV417FNET.DTL

Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully I am wrong. But I don’t think you should hold your breath waiting for a reply, even from younger Martin, no matter how much sense your research makes. Who knows, maybe if enough of us send a email, someone may take notice in time to avoid having to buy another bridesmaid gown.

by FrankDNole on May 12, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why the link does not work. Here it is again.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/06/SPV417FNET.DTL

Oh well I give up, here is a reprint of the whole article, sorry if this is boring to you.

College coaches are using Twitter to reach recruits
Will McCulloch, Chronicle Staff Writer

Thursday, May 7, 2009

(05-07) 09:42 PDT — Santa Clara men’s basketball coach Kerry Keating was considered one of the most tech-savvy recruiters when he was an assistant at UCLA. He courted Kevin Love with text messages and landed a commitment from another top recruit via Instant Messenger.

Nearly two years after the NCAA banned text messages from coaches to prospects, Keating is trying to tweet a top high school player or two to Santa Clara.

Keating set up a Twitter account two months ago and thinks it could be a valuable recruiting tool as the NCAA continues to place restrictions on communication between coaches and prospective student-athletes.

“It’s another vehicle to exchange information,” Keating said. “Recruiting is all about communication and it’s another good communication device.”

The Twitter craze certainly has galvanized the college coaching ranks. Many elite coaches are attempting to tap into a medium that is increasingly being used by young people. USC football coach Pete Carroll has more than 17,000 followers on Twitter. Indiana basketball coach Tom Crean and new Kentucky coach John Calipari are engaged in a lighthearted competition to see who can get more followers. Former Raiders coach Lane Kiffin is Twittering at Tennessee.

Meantime, Stanford basketball and football coaches don’t have Twitter accounts, and Cal athletic department officials say accounts on the free social networking site are in the works for some of their coaches.

College coaches’ tweets range from light-hearted updates about fast food consumption to opinions about basketball fundamentals. Carroll even provides a link to a song of the day.

Keating recently posted a message with a link to a YouTube video in which Dwyane Wade reads his love letter to basketball. “Coached against D Wade in his first college game,” Keating wrote, “… a lot to be learned here for younger players.” In another tweet, Keating observed: “If NBA guards used a jump stop they’d be better. Period.”

Crean, who is trying to rebuild Indiana’s program after Kelvin Sampson was fired for recruiting violations, is a prolific Twitterer.

His final post Tuesday: “We are always asking our guys why they like or dislike a class. A lot of times we find it is all in their approach to it.”

Crean has nearly 5,000 followers, including one of his signed recruits for next season.

“We have to continue to do everything we can do to show visibility,” Crean said last week in a news conference. “That doesn’t necessarily mean we are going to be visible in front of people because the rules don’t allow that all the time. So this is a way to put out what is going on and I don’t want to make it corny, but I want to have some fun with it. It is another way to communicate.”

Twitter offers the ability to post messages containing up to 140 characters that answer the question “what are you doing?” Anyone can log on to Twitter to receive updates from college coaches’ accounts or receive them directly to their phone.

The NCAA has no formal policy on Twitter. Because of the indirect nature of the messages, it is not the same as a text message or an e-mail, which is limited depending on the grade of the recruit. Twitter messages do not violate any NCAA rules as long as a coach’s tweet is not a direct message to a recruit or a post that specifies where the coach is recruiting. It’s treated like a blog.

Calipari says it’s merely an opportunity to allow Kentucky fans to get to know their new coach, but Keating and others like Illinois football coach Ron Zook are intrigued by its possible contribution to recruiting efforts.

“The whole reason obviously had to do with recruiting, period,” Zook told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “I guess others have been able to follow us. It’s amazing what (students) have now and how they communicate, and guys are able to see what we’re doing.”

Keating says his twittering is in its infant stage, but he plans “to ramp it up” in the coming months. He likes it for the same reason he gravitated toward text messaging with recruits when it was allowed.

“Twitter is the rarest format in some senses – it’s direct and to the point,” Keating said. "With 140 characters, it’s short, concise and gets all the fat out.

“And I said this about instant messaging. There’s stream of consciousness involved that allows people to open up. "

Keating started a blog on his Web site last year, but found it was difficult to update on a consistent basis with all the responsibilities he has during the season. He’s looking to Twitter as an alternative. He envisions situations where without making a phone call, recruits or even players already committed to the program can find out what happened at practice on a particular day.

Though Keating doesn’t favor a culture in which teenagers prefer texting and other forms of gadget-based communication over dialogue, he recognizes that everyone is different.

“This is how business is done and relationships are done,” Keating said. “If you embrace it and use it for the right things it can be good. … It’s time efficient if used in the right way.”

USF coach Rex Walters, who played at Kansas, recently signed up with Twitter with a screen name “Jayhawk23.” Walters admits he is still learning to tweet. He believes any opportunity to allow prospective recruits a window into the school, basketball program and the personality of the coaching staff is worth trying.

“Your relationship with players is very important,” Walters said. “You want them to know what you’re about and what you’re program is all about.”

Walters and Keating believe the limitations on communications have made it more difficult for coaches and players to build the necessary trust during the recruiting process. Prospects can contact coaches at any time, but the coaches are not even allowed to send an e-mail to recruits before September 1, of their junior year. Walters thinks the NCAA rules have contributed to the increase in the number of transfers in college basketball.

“There are negatives to every place,” Walters said. “You want to let them know what they’re getting into.”

Not everyone is jumping on the Twitter bandwagon, though. Oregon football coach Chip Kelly won’t be using it as a recruiting device.

“Who cares what I had for breakfast?” Kelly told the Eugene Register-Guard. “You think a recruit is going to come to Oregon because I ate Oreos?”

But what if the recruit likes Oreos, too?

A quick Twitter glossary
Twitter – an online forum for sending short messages out to groups of people.

Tweet – a Twitter message.

Follower – someone who subscribes (it’s free) to a person’s Twitter page.

A coach sampling
Some tweets posted Wednesday, unedited.

Kerry Keating, Santa Clara

twitter.com/SCUHoops

“Juice of the day: Honeydew, Grapes, Watermelon, Apple, Cucumber. Egg White protein powder and I’m ready for Joe today!”

Pete Carroll, USC

twitter.com/PeteCarroll

“Song of the day! Miss you by the stones… Because I’m missing all the coaches who are out on the road recruiting right now”

Lane Kiffin, Tennessee

twitter.com/LaneKiffinUT

“About to leave for another stop on the BOC…Hope to see at lot of people come out today in Spartanburg & Charlotte…Go Vols!”

E-mail Will McCulloch at wmcculloch@sfchronicle.com.

This article appeared on page D – 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

by FrankDNole on May 12, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How long has this site been up and running?

August 2008, but I had the FSUncensored blog going for the summer of 2008 as well.

Has anyone at TN ever emailed ANY FSU coach with any suggestions/facts/research?
Yes, I send stuff to them.


If yes, has ANY FSU coach replied, even in form letter?

Officially? No. However, we are tight with some within the program and they absolutely are aware of us and acknowledge our work (not publicly). Further, some of the MSM uses our stuff in their questions, and we hear Jimbo specifically address stuff we are talking about. Fisher’s addressed our points in his pressers and post-practice comments multiple times. http://www.tomahawknation.com/2008/10/28/648442/tuesday-fsu-smrogasbord-an

Finally, would you agree that our main sports coaches (football, baseball, basketball) are not very interactive with their fans, like some schools may be, in terms of accepting any ideas/advice in any form? My gut feeling is NO.

You’re correct.

If my negative thinking is correct this could be due to the current coaches ages, their lack of computer knowledge (this whole ebay/internet thing is confusing), and technology that they are not familiar with.

AC recently had a post asking when Bobby will start using Twitter, in jest of course, because Meyer, Pete Carroll, and many others are now using it.

While the concept of coaches tweeting is absurd to me, as well as the whole Twitter concept in general, IMHO, (I don’t care in 140 words or less when you will be going to take a crap or how LOL you thought something is, and I hope Twitter disappears before long, but sorry I degress), until we get some younger blood running the show(s) I don’t think we will be fully taking advantage of the technology which is available to us. I forget if it was Meyer or Nick Satan who made the NCAA ban the use of text and emails to recruits. Now the more savvy coaches are using Twitter, which is still allowed by the NCAA, to reach recruits. I don’t know if the NCAA can or will take any action to prohibit this, but my whole point is that we are not the most technologically friendly university to the best of my knowledge.

Right again. The head guys in charge are firmly in that category of senior citizens who do not wish to learn about or use new technology.

James Coley is on Twitter, however. http://twitter.com/CoachColey

Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully I am wrong. But I don’t think you should hold your breath waiting for a reply, even from younger Martin, no matter how much sense your research makes. Who knows, maybe if enough of us send a email, someone may take notice in time to avoid having to buy another bridesmaid gown.

I don’t expect a response, but our articles do put pressure on the coaches. Specifically when we send them to all of the coaches. The younger coaches snickering the next time Martin costs this team runs, Hamilton misuses a timeout, or Bobby calls foe an ill-advised punt, it only helps to spur progress.

by Bud Elliott on May 12, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Translation: no.

I just won the thread.

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." - General George S. Patton

by NoleCC on May 12, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They will not respond.

Why would they? They are wrong and the numbers prove it and baseball is a numbers driven game. I have said it before and I will say it again, FSU will not win the CWS while MM is here. MM runs us out of games and against the top teams with good coaches he can not get it done.
I truly believe he over thinks when he coaches and is far too involved in every single play, whether it is calling each pitch, or signaling for a steal. If I could give him one piece of advice it would be to let the kids PLAY and stay out of it.

by CFCNole on May 12, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

against the top teams with good coaches he can not get it done.

I agree with this. He can win a lot of games, but against the top teams, the margin for error is slighter.

Many coaches fall victim to thinking that action is the key, when it is actually the opposite.

by Bud Elliott on May 12, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

MM record in CWS and Super Regionals.

Following up on MM not getting it done versus good teams with good coaches I found he is 17-26 in the CWS and 6-12 in Super Regional play. Hence his combined CWS and SR record is 23-38. Not exactly what you want from your coach versus his ‘peers’. Of course his teams always have poise, so that counts for something right?

by CFCNole on May 12, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing work.

This article and thread should be required reading for any current and future Tomahawk Nation members. My baseball IQ can always use an upgrade (you mean it’s not just pitching and defense… and poise?), and the FAQ in the comments re: TN’s influence on FSU’s programs… well really, that’s just the start. There’s a LOT of great stuff from beginning to end in this thread. Uncensored, you continue to raise the bar. Micromanager Martin, you’ll rue the day.

by TRMNole on May 13, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

alliteration, for the win.

Appreciate it, TRMNole

by Bud Elliott on May 13, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bud and I were on the phone earlier tonight.

When I mentioned that we bunted at least 4 times before the 5th inning, he suggested we repost this every time Mike Martin screws us by bunting.

Tyler Holt led off the game with a double. Lebben promptly called for the sacrifice. From the 2nd batter of the game. To move a runner along. A runner who was already in scoring position.

I swear, half of his coaching decisions seem like they are the result of some dying kid’s Make-A-Wish.

by MattDNole on Mar 14, 2010 12:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think there was one situation tonight where we had Lopez bunting with a runner on first. There was wild pitch and the runner advanced to second, and sure enough Martin has Lopez bunting on the next pitch too.

by 38Noles on Mar 14, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Best article I have seen anywhere anytime on FSU baseball

I agree completely. I will mail this to them. When you have a hitter like McGee you don’t tell him to bunt. First of all it can reduce the hitter’s confidence. reduce his fire and lastly get him thinking his coach is simply a loser and doesn’t understand the game.

As someone also said you have to let them play the game. College baseball at FSU is a pretty big stage but in the final analysis it still has to be fun for the players to keep them on a high mental level. This is absolutely Martin’s ego getting in the way. There is no way to measure if this has cost a few big time recruits along the way either.

I have known a player or two also who had nothing good to say about Martin. He will throw blame for a loss back at the players. That may be fine but he is also a part of the losses and as the stats show here, more than possibly most coaches are.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Mar 14, 2010 12:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

does Tom Block do the radio for some baseball games?

I believe that’s who I heard during my ride home from work the other day. We were playing UNF and besides the inning (which I’ll guess at), here’s pretty much what I heard Tom say verbatim:

“…And the Noles leave the bases loaded in an inning where 2 outs were made by bunting back to the pitcher…..as we head to the top of the 3rd, it’s still tied 1-1….”

I only heard 60 seconds of that game, but they were plenty.

by The K-Man on Mar 14, 2010 1:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

I don't know the relationship between the two, but you'd think Martin's son would have

been working on him the last few years on this bunting issue. I mean, Jr. has to have SOME idea of the change in thinking that has gone on the last few years with regard to the value (or lack thereof) of the bunt. I know I got no problem telling my dad when he is wrong, and you’d think he’d want his dad to win a NC before he checks out. And by that I mean, retires.

Hell of a tragic lost this evening, by the way. 6 runs in the top of the ninth to lose 9-8? First the hoops game, then this. Tough weekend.

All is not lost; the unconquerable will/And courage never to submit or yield.

by GoNolzOhio on Mar 14, 2010 1:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I was at the game tonight

And through the eighth and ninth, I was shooting the breeze with a group of about four or five pro scouts standing behind my seat as they waited for the game to wrap up and they just marveled (as did I) at how many breaking balls our pitchers were throwing in the ninth (they also thought Gast and UVa’s starter threw too many when they were in). After it became clear our relievers weren’t able to throw the breaking ball for strikes, I was just praying for some fastballs to induce some swings and take my chances that we’d get a grounder or pop-up to end the inning. But it never happened and it was one of the more crushing losses I’ve witnessed. Didn’t help that we struck out looking to end an inning three time tonight either (at least two of those situations with runners on third if I recall). Talk about tough.

Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.

by mmmCheese on Mar 14, 2010 3:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How funny, seeing a post from a newbie FrankD

wow…

oh, and this is a pretty sweet article, cant believe I missed it the first time.

by Miaminole on Mar 14, 2010 3:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The other factor not mentioned here is ...

…. the proficiency of the bunter. I would say the analysis would be even more starkly tilted toward the disadvantages of bunting if you factor in the reality that No. 3 hitters are generally less proficient at it than leadoff-type hitters.

This all has a very Bowden-esque feel to it — with a strong AD, this should be easily rectified, but, alas, it’s doubtful anything will change.

Btw, the Twitter-will-die prediction isn’t looking so hot … ;-)

by Fsued on Mar 14, 2010 8:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

On that note

In ordur to satisfi u punk kids and your tweeter fad, the FSU AD has implem…impluman…impenada….made a new policy mendating that ALL coaches utilize tweeter at least 3X a day.

I have hired the survaces of MattD to work spucifically with Coach Martin. I hope that this well help him to git sum bettr recroots to FSU

Sincelery,

Your Friend,

Thank You,

The Spet Dawg

by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 14, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody needs to check with McPherson’s bookie and see if he has 11’s number because he threw the game last night. That has to be the worst managed game I have ever seen. Just pathetic.

by evenflow58 on Mar 14, 2010 8:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been desiring a change at the top of FSU baseball for a good while now. Time to turn the page in the Dick much like it was the Doak.

Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.

by levynole on Mar 14, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is there a state that shows how 11 just chokes?

He will never win a national title because of it.

My question is this…..does 11 have an agenda to get his son the job when he retires. That is my real issue, because we are never getting rid of 11 unless he slides like Bobby.

by noles55 on Mar 14, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There's a time and place for bunting

It’s called the pitcher spot in the batting order in the National League.

by CelticPride on Mar 14, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Something tells me MM is a lot like BB when it comes to "the E-Bay"...

I don’t think that tired old crew in the Athletic dept is gonna find an e-mail much less respond to it.

I wish our entire Athletic Dept could get the same over haul our Football program just received.

by Diablo_2 on Mar 14, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Need a new AD first...

the one we have is clueless.

by noles55 on Mar 14, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously guys.

Can we find something else to chat about? Our baseball team looked good today…

by Randall W. Spetman on Mar 14, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

worse than a half run

you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

But the sac bunt would be much worse than minus a half run, by the math given that would be the result of a successful bunt. Many bunts are unsuccessful. A bunt might result in a double play. A player ordered to bunt, especially a #3 hitter type who isnt used to it might fail twice, get 0-2 count trying to bunt, have the bunt sign taken off and then strikeout afterwards after getting buried in the count by his coach allowing the opposing pitcher to unleash some nasty breaking ball for a K attempt. Or he might get the bunt down, only to see the pitcher field it and throw to third for one ( free) out. etc, etc etc.

there are many negative possibilities once you try to bunt beyond the negative half run by executing the bunt. the announcers and most fans will clap like trained seals if the bunt gets the runners to second and third and the manager looks good to the average knucklehead who sees that as “good baseball”.

yes, if that bunt was ordered and not a bad move taken on solely by the player, it is beyond comically stupid management.

by Mr. Smith on Mar 17, 2010 8:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs


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