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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

IS THE TIGHT END AT FSU CONSIDERED AN ELIGIBLE RECEIVER?

In a recent fanpost by cusechosen titled Secondary F-, I posted this comment about our defensive coverage of the opposing teams tight end:

I think most will agree that the tight end pass coverage, whether it be the LB’s responsibility or fault, or the DB/Safety in a zone package, has been deplorable for the last few (7?) years. Last year, if the opposing QB had thrown better passes to their wide open TE in a couple of games, we might have lost another game or two.

Nattylite responded with a comment stating:

Mickey Andrews is convinced there are only 10 players on offense.

This response got me thinking about our past and more recent offensive philosophy regarding our T.E.’s participation in our passing offense.

It seems to me that for the past few years our offensive coordinators have been unaware that the TE is a eligible receiver. 

I only went back 10 years while putting these numbers together,  but I was surprised and shocked to see the number of passes our T.E.’s have caught during the past 10 season.

Last year (2008), Caz Piurowski (6'7") caught only 8 passes for 83 yds (10.4 avg) and 1 TD, Bo Reliford (6'7") caught one pass for 8 yards, and Josh Dobbie caught one pass for 14 yards.  Combined that is a total of 10 passes with an average of 10.5 yards per catch.
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 10 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2008.

Some more recent history of our TE’s involvement in the passing attack.

In 2007-
Charlie Graham- 11 rec for 84 yds for 7.6 avg and 1 TD (dismissed or DNQ for 2008)
Caz- 7 rec. for 55 yds for 7.9 avg
Josh Dobbie- 0 rec (Walk-on who transferred from Army, mostly played special teams)
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 18 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2007.

In 2006-
Brandon Warren- 28 rec for 301yds for 10.8 avg and 1 TD
Caz- 7 rec for 55 yds for 7.9 avg
Charlie Graham- 3 rec for 42 yds for 14.0 avg
THAT IS A HEALTHY TOTAL OF 38 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN 2006.

In 2005
Matt Henshaw- 21rec for 177 yds for 8.4 avg
Donnie Carter- 6 rec for 35 yds for 5.8 avg
Matt Root- 3 rec for 27 yds for 9.0 avg
Charlie Graham- 0 rec
THAT IS A TOTAL OF 30 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN 2005.

In 2004
Paul Irons- 8 rec for 89 yds for 11.1 avg
Matt Henshaw- 5 rec for 43 yds for 8.6 avg
Matt Root- 1 rec for 3 yds
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 14 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2004.

In 2003
Paul Irons- 6 rec for 79 yds for 13.2 avg
Matt Henshaw- 5 rec for 94 yds for 18.8 avg and 2 TD’s
Donnie Carter- 5 rec for 99 yds for 19.8 avg and 1 TD
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 16 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2003.

In 2002
Patrick Hughes- 5 rec for 50 yds for 10.0 avg
Paul Irons- 1 rec for 1 yds
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 6 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2002.

In 2001
Carver Donaldson- 3 rec for 26 yds for 8.7 avg
Patrick Hughes- 2 rec for 13 yds for 6.5 avg
Paul Irons- 1 rec for 5 yds and 1 TD
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 6 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2001.

In 2000
Carver Donaldson- 1 rec for 9 yds
Ryan Sprague- 12 rec for 212 yds for 17.7 avg
Nick Franklin- 3 rec for 40 yds for 13.3 avg
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 16 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 2000.

Even during our NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP YEAR OF 1999, we often ignored the tight end.
Carver Donaldson- 1 rec for 19 yds
Ryan Sprague- 5 rec for 76 yds for 15.2 avg and 1 TD
Patrick Hughes- 1 rec for 13 yds 
THAT IS ONLY A TOTAL OF 7 RECEPTIONS BY THE T.E.’S IN ALL OF 1999.

I could go on, but I think I will rely on my memory that this has been the pattern for many, many years.

With the exception of the 2006 and 2005 season, the number of receptions by our tight ends is pathetic.  IMO, the 06 and 05 team totals is the number of receptions that our starting TE, in any given year, should be catching just by himself.  Of course I am not blaming the players for this lack of production,  this is not the TE’s fault. This falls squarely on the shoulders of our offensive coordinators, who have designed and called our offense for the past ____ (fill in your number here) years without regard to the tight end as a downfield receiver option.

Personally, I always hate when someone compares FSU to our hated rivals, the gators.  Situations are always different and things are not always comparable.  Therefore, I am going to contradict myself and I am going to compare our TE receiving history to last years gators NC (ugh) team for the sake of strengthening my argument.

In 2008 the Gator T.E. Aaron Hernandez was the teams 3rd leading receiver with 34 rec for 381 yds or 11.2 avg and 5 TD’s (2 of those coming against FSU on 4 recs for 61 yds, which brings me back to my original post about our lack of defensive coverage of the opposing T.E.’s, but I digress). They also had another T.E. Casey with 4 rec for 64 yds for a 16.0 avg.
THAT IS A TOTAL OF 38 RECEPTIONS BY THEIR T.E.’S LAST SEASON.

I understand Jimbo is more of a run first oriented coordinator and that is fine and acceptable as long as we have the horses in the backfield.  However,  I have to think we are missing many opportunities by not calling plays designed for the T.E.’s, just like many other colleges and pro teams have been doing for many years and with much success.  Our T.E.’s are huge targets (6'7"), and their involvement in the passing game has been limited to blocking to help protect the passer.  I understand this was necessary last season (and in many prior years)  due to the inexperience and weaknesses (past tense) of our offensive line.  Now that our offensive line has matured and has gained some valuable playing experience, it is time to unleash the big boys on the opposing teams defense,  just as they have been doing to us for the past 25 years.

I recall Jimbo making a promise this off-season that our T.E.’s would become a more integral part of our offense in 2009.  I certainly hope Jimbo keeps his word, because I have a gut feeling our WR’s are going to need all the help they can get.  If he does make the TE at least a small part of our arsenal, this will pose another offensive threat that the defense will have to account for, instead of being able to pin their ears back and rush, or dropping another player into pass coverage.

In conclusion, FSU has had a fairly decent history of T.E.’s making it in the NFL, especially during our dominant years of the 80's and 90's.  Here is a list of the FSU T.E.’s who have had successful careers in the NFL along with the year in which they were drafted.

Tony Romeo-1961
Bill Dawson-1964
Matt Wettstein-1966
Thurston Taylor-1968
Chip Glass-1969
Gary Parris-1973
Ed Beckman-1977
Zeke Mowatt-1983
Orson Mobley-1986
Pat Carter-1988
Reggie Johnson-1991
Lonnie Johnson-1994
Melvin Pearsal-1998
Paul Irons-2005

You may recognize some of these names, depending on your age.  I think that it is way past the time for FSU to once again to get our T.E.’s involved, accounted for,  and respected when we are on offense, and this threat should open up more options in every other offensive area for the Noles.

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Sorry, I know this is a story on TE involvement in the offense, but

is Jimbo really a run oriented coach? I’ve always thought of him a a more balanced (maybe pro-style) coach that brought in elements from various schems.

by jasonole59 on Jun 16, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

of course I suppose there is a distinction between:

run-oriented and run only (Paul Johnson)

Did we turn into a run-oriented out of necessity?

by jasonole59 on Jun 16, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go figure! I guess he is more balanced than I thought, but my perception of him is of a run oriented coach, which I guess is up for debate.

2008 attempts.
Run=483
Pass=387
We ran 55.5% of the time.

2007 attempts
Run=447
Pass=466
We passed 51% of the time.

>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

by FrankDNole on Jun 16, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the tour

Jimbo publicly stated at one of his recent speaking engagements that they kept the TEs back from pass routes to help the blocking.

If the OL can pass block without help from the TE, he said Caz should see the ball more, especially with the issues of experience at receiver.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jun 16, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Orlando

It was a topic of discussion when he stopped by the Seminole Club of Greater Orlando. With a much improved OL, our TE’s should get more passes thrown their way.

Great read Frank D… and I completely agree with you. For years, some fans questioned why stud TE propects didn’t give FSU much consideration in their recruitment. Can you blame a TE for going to other programs? We should see a more balanced attack and Caz/Bo should become a threat this fall.

by CSI Nole on Jun 16, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It looks like Jimbo repeated it for the media today

or at least for ESPN. Looks like Jimbo was interviewed for College Football Live on ESPN today:

Fisher sounded especially excited about tight end Caz Piurowski, who will be more involved in the passing game this year and should be a much bigger factor now that they don’t need him to help out the offensive line. He also pointed out players like Tavares Pressley and Ty Jones who will help the team take the next step.

The receivers, he said, have learned from their mistakes and he’s noticed a difference in their attitude. Their grades are up, they’re making better decisions and they understand the consequences of their actions.

There apparently was also some stuff about the FBs, including a mention that Sims is considering transferring to … North Alabama. Fisher speaks

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jun 18, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the hell??????

Why do these players not see that JB was the worst thing to happen to them? Can they not see how the program went down under his tutelage……come on?

by diablonole on Jun 19, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I chuckle every time I see or hear

Zeke Mowatt’s name…. legendary.

Anyway, good observation Frank. If the TE is constantly a 3rd tackle in practice, you’ll never pick him up in the game.

We’ve been burned by so many TEs recently that I dread any pass thrown down the middle on a 3rd and long.

by coonhound on Jun 16, 2009 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I have said this since 95

Honestly. I think it changes when we get a TE who can play. We did throw to that one guy who went to Tennessee a fair amount. I will not stay his name.

by DOT COM on Jun 17, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions  

One of the problems with throwing to the TE

is that your TE is usually not the same caliber athlete as other talent positions (at least traditionally). So, by throwing to the TE, that’s one less play where you are getting the ball to your best catchers, runners, etc.

Also, the TE’s primary job is blocking. Catching has always been a secondary talent of that position. Conversely, catching passes is the primary job for WR’s.

In my observation, the pass-catching TE teams usually have an exceptional talent at that position that is equal to, or even greater than, the talent at other positions. Our team even threw to a freshman TE, more than any other year, when that freshman had an exceptional pass catching and/or YAC ability. IMO, UF’s Aaron Hernandez is another example of a highly-rated, exceptional athlete at the TE position.

I don’t disagree that we should throw to the TE more. I just think that aspect is dictated more by the talent and/or abilities available rather than a specific coaching mindset. If we want FSU to throw to the TE more, then maybe what we should be asking is: “why aren’t the coaches focused on recruiting at least one pass-catching TE”?

by FSUjab on Jun 17, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Who was the TE that transferred in from one of the military academies last year..

I remembered him making one catch (against Wake maybe?) and then never saw him again.

by jasonole59 on Jun 17, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but was he considered a above-average pass-catching athlete disguised as a TE?

That’s what Brandon Warren was, as well as UM’s Kellen Winslow, Maryland’s Vernon Davis from a couple years ago, and UF’s Hernandez from last year. The throw to the TE is basically a trick play unless you have a very large, athletic receiver.

I suspect this is why MA doesn’t pay attention to the TE from a defensive standpoint. However, now that it’s known that FSU rarely pays attention to the TE, opposing coaches have made a living exploiting that flaw.

by FSUjab on Jun 17, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe Tennessee

had Warren lose some weight and now he’s a wide receiver for them as of this last spring. Think he’s down to 220 or so.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jun 18, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. Case in point.

Thanks Wild. Warren definitely has the talent to be a WR.

by FSUjab on Jun 18, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t disagree that we should throw to the TE more. I just think that aspect is dictated more by the talent and/or abilities available rather than a specific coaching mindset.

by Bud Elliott on Jun 17, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tools of the TE

I think the argument that the tools of your TE dictate if you throw to him holds more weight in the NFL than college. If our coaches decided to, they could recruit a large 3 star WR who doesn’t have a lot of big offers and is willing to block. Then you can put a kid who is 6 foot 4 to 6 foot 6 and if he is around 200 lbs when he is 17 there is no reason to think he couldn’t put on 20-30 more lbs by the time he is 19 or 20.

by osceolafan850 on Jun 20, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

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