Lies, D*mn Lies, and 2008 Seminole Defensive Statistics
We all know that statistics can be manipulated to say pretty much anything, and to suit virtually any hypothesis, no matter how outlandish.
But if you assemble enough statistics, and order them logically, the truth tends to rise to the surface. After crunching some numbers, and possibly inventing a new measure of defensive performance, the verdict on FSU's 2008 defense becomes clear. It was the run defense, not the pass defense (which incidentially was tops in the ACC in terms of opponents 3rd down completion percentage), with the greatest room for improvement. FSU's inability to put opponents into third down situations, statistically speaking, can be found after the jump....
As the basic premise for this analysis, it is worth mentioning that I have accepted the idea set forth by FSUncensored in his article Size Matters that FSU's defense would have been even worse if not for the Noles ability to hang onto the football.
In order to test this underlying premise, I dusted off my seldom used copy of Excel and calculated the average number of first downs surrendered per minute of defensive play (using ACC teams and intra-conference play). I believe this measure is a better metric of defensive prowess for the following reason: When the game is on the line, and the defense needs to get a stop or prevent a first down, they are out on the field without the benefit of a ball control offense.
In short, if FSU's overall defense was as weak suspected, and were helped by having to defend less plays overall (which necessarily inflate sdefensive statistics uncontrolled for offensive time of possession), then measuring first downs surrendered per minute of defense should produce a more accurate measure of defensive power.
I don't know how to post fancy charts on here like FSUncensored, so you will just have to bear with me while I explain the numbers.
FSU was 3rd from the bottom in terms of average number of first downs surrendered per minute of defense, yielding an average of .61 first downs/minute in ACC play. Only Duke, at .62, and NC State, with a brutal .74, were worse. The top team, unsurprisingly, was Virginia Tech, at just under .5/minute.
So, FSU's defense, controlled for efficiency was atrocious, and FSUncensored's observation about time of possession skewing defensive performance appears to be spot on.
Having confirmed that FSU's 2008 defense, at least in terms of efficiency based upon yards surrendered over time, was poor, the great debate necessarily focuses on whether this performance can be attributed to an inability to defend the run e.g. Boston College Drive, or an inability to cover the pass e.g. any pass to the tight end.
I have suggested, and would continue to suggest, that it was the run defense that was in the roughest shape, and that it was causing problems for our passing defense.
Referring back again to Size Matters,and thinking about yards per play, I decided to break down FSU's run defense relative to other ACC defenses on 1st and 2nd down. There are several reasons for excluding third down from this analysis.
First, I haven't controlled my statistics to remove the effect of sacks (and I'm not sure that it is possible to do so by down), and I suspect that more sacks occur in obvious passing situations like third down.
Second, third down running plays more so than 1st and 2nd down running plays (excluding the red zone) tend to cluster around extreme short yardage situations, where a team needs 1/2 a yard or a yard and either barely gets the first down or doesn't. In fact, FSU's third down run defense surrendered an average of just 1.19 yds/attempt. In these types of situations, a team often gets or doesn't get around what they needed to pick up, thus making a defense's third down run performance unreliable.
And third, there are far fewer third down rushing attempts. Per cfbstats, the rushing attempts per down against FSU were 224, 155, and 64, respectively, making third down rushing attempts a relatively small sample size.
In any event, when I compared FSU's 1st and 2nd down run defense to the rest of the ACC, the numbers were shocking.
In all games (I couldn't find just the conference games, so these stats include UF along with the two cupcakes to start the season), FSU surrendered an average of 4.45 yds/carry on first down in 2008. That was good for second worst in the conference. To put this number into perspective, the conference average was 3.9 yds/carry on first down.
On second down, the story gets much, much worse. FSU gave up an eye popping 5.87 yds/carry. This was dead last in the ACC. The conference average was 4.09 yds/ carry.
Without FSU's total lack of run defense on second down, the conference average would have been well below 4 yds per carry, and there would have been no meaningful difference between the average number of yards given up per carry on first or second down by ACC defenses.
To further quantify how bad FSU was at stopping the run in these situations, FSU, gave up an average of 1.42 yds/carry more on second down. No other team in the ACC had a differential above -1, and no other team, assuming the opposition ran the ball on first and second down, surrendered a combined average of more than 10 yds for those two plays.
So, what does all this mean?
Conclusions
1) FSU's lack of efficiency, measured in terms of first downs surrendered per minute of defense, appears to be correlated or explained by the lousy run defense on first and second downs.
2) Second down was disproportionately difficult for FSU to stop the run. Not only was FSU worst in the conference by this metric, they were in a league of their own. I suspect that 2nd and 5 (after FSU surrendered almost 5 yds on first down) was the most difficult and dangerous down for FSU to try and cheat up from the secondary to help stop the run, since that is a prime time for play action. Without the benefit of additional run support from the secondary, FSU's front 7 were repeatedly and mercilessly shredded on second down running plays.
3) If I had 1st and 2nd down yds/rushing attempt were controlled for sacks, FSU would probably look even worse, although some of that effect might be offset by a disproportionate amount of sacks coming on third downs.
Edited to correct some spelling and grammar that was bothering me.
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Comments
Excellent work.
I am consistently amazed by the quality that our fans put out and it only goes to show that FSU fans still have great passion for the ’Noles.
There are more die-hards out there than you think.
Belichek spoke recently and said that he would take one all-pro defensive tackle over two hall of fame cornerbacks. I think I agree
I don't know who Nate Silver is...
But lies, damn lies, and statistics is a quote generally attributed to Mark Twain….
ETA- To satisfy my own curiousity, I googled Mr. Silver and discovered that he is a baseball statistician who invented a system for projecting player performance. Apparently he went on to write a regular column entitled “Lies, Damn Lies” for Baseball Prospectus.
So my apologies to Mr. Silver, assuming he of course, apologies to the estate of Mark Twain or whoever came up with the saying intially.
My apologies.
I was really just messing around. Since you like stats I figured you knew who he was.
He also created www.fivethirtyeight.com and predicted the exact amount of electoral votes Barack would get, then he was on CNN, and Colbert, etc. He has since relinquished control of baseballprospectus.com.
no big deal
Well, I like football, but not professional baseball, so maybe that explains it in part. My iterest in sports statistics has just gotten started, so I’ve got a lot to learn.
Mostly I’m interested in statistics for the purpose of supporting my own intuition, I’m not really a numbers or math guy. If you only saw how long it took me to make some simple formulas in excel for this post.
Avg FSU Fans
I might print out this article and make all my friends that think we have such a amazing D read it over and over. Even the #@$$ at ESPN brag about the FSU D… shows how much they know. The average fan thinks FSU’s D is amazing and it is aways the Offense screwing things up. It drove me nuts watching games last year where the D just could not get off the damn field. Gashed over and over again by the run or a pass to the tight end. Some people have looked at me like I’m crazy when I tell them I’m more concerned about the 2009 fsu D then the O.
With Ponder throwing interceptions left and right, sometimes it was hard for them to get off the field.
I do agree however that the D is a bigger concern this year than the O.
Defense is not the problem.
You mean the only offense to average 30 points in ACC play?
The offense with the guy who won offensive coordinator of the year?
by Bud Elliott on Jun 24, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
We were replying at the same time, didn't mean that as a sarcastic remark to you.
by Bud Elliott on Jun 24, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought the offense did ok.
It wasnt great but it was x20 better than the 2 years before. I think it will be even better than last year. As for the Def is wasnt great but it did ok. I think we will get pushed around again this year but we will have speed. We will be out of place and get ran on a lot. GT, UNC and NCST are going to do that. Miami wont have the time to get into swing right off the bat.
Anyhow, It should get better. But as long as MA is not doing a thing then the Def wont get better. I think hes trying but its going to be hard because he dont like change.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Mark May
predicted ten wins for FSU, if I remember correctly. If he had any guts he’d take his opinion to vegas because I’m sure there are some people out there that would love to meet him and his wallet
great job.
At first glance, I thought the yards per carry on 1st and second down were very scary. I started to reationalize it though, and I wonder what the effect of our tackles for loss are. As our friend Lee Corso would say, “Not so fast!” FSU was tied for first in the nation in tackles for loss (112) and tied for fourth in sacks(39). Giving up 6 yards on second down is not so bad after a loss of 4 on first down. As FSUn has shown us, it’s all about the leverage of the situation. I am not trying to argue that we had an outstanding defense this year, but we were far from the third worst in the ACC. We were a defense of extremes.
Not so fast my friend
I don’t think our defense overall was third worst in the ACC. I do think our run defense was at the bottom of the league, however. The fact that we led the nation in tackles for loss (I’m excluding sacks since they aren’t a running play) means that our situational rushing defense should have gotten some help statistically. But apparently, leading the country in negative rushing plays doesn’t have a huge statistical impact upon average yards per carry on the more traditional rushing downs (1st and 2nd).
what the sacks and TFL show ...
is FSU’s defense is built more on quick and less on discipline. The TFL comes when a player penetrates into the backfield with speed and/or offensive breakdown. FSU’s overall stats as demonstrated in the article show that the offense can possibly crack out a big gain by taking advantage of that penetration by having the ball carrier elsewhere at the time, and cut back to where those guys in the backfield would have been had they played more containment and assignment ball.
FSU and Miami were dominant in the 90s due to pioneering and perfecting the attacking defenses. Offenses evolved to take advantage of attacking defenses. As past articles (last fall?) on this site have shown, FSU’s defense does well against traditional offenses that have been around awhile (Power-I, pro sets) and less well against the more up to date offenses (ones with spread characteristics, for example).
An offense that spreads itself horizontally can take advantage of an attacking defense like FSU’s, making use of “holes” behind players who have penetrated the backfield etc.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Jun 24, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
don't know the answer
cfbstats.com doesn’t have situational stats for TFL & Sacks, only split stats. I don’t have time to go through the play by play of each game to figure out when a sack and TFL occured, although that would be the best (and possibly only way) to figure this out with certainty. I speculated in the article that sacks in particular tend to occur on third down (more so than either first or second), simply by virtue of 3rd down play selection, where the offense is expected to pass, and the defense can pin its ears back and get a bit more creative with its blitzing packages.
awesome
I do agree we need to get better against the run…
I wonder if the problem on 2nd is that we are choosing not to get burned on the pass due to a lack luster secondary. Also WE NEED BIG DTS PLEASE!!!
I do think you and unsencored tend to push the offensive possetion button a bit hard for my taste. I.e. that is true of all defenses. That’s why the best offensive coaches not only score, but know how to move the chains and chew up some clock with the run.
Yeah, right!
2nd down
well….I have to go to work, but if you wanted to test your hypothesis, you could compare the second down passing split stats amongst ACC schools, to see how FSU ranked in terms of yds/pass and completion percentage allowed. I haven’t looked at that, so I don’t know the answer.
I recognize your critique of emphasizing time of possession. Football is a team game, and it is natural for a team to be better on one side of the ball. However, when it is the off season, and fall is months away, I find it interesting to strip things away and take a more technical look. In this case, TOP allows the defense to literally hide on the sidelines, which distorts traditional measures of effectiveness.
With the exception of Florida...they chose not to chew up the clock last year in order to score at a ridiculous rate. Here is what I wrote before the game:
We know that the Gators can score, but I never realized how quickly they do it. They score a ridiculous 0.76 points per play or 3.56 points per drive, meaning they are essentially guaranteed to score if they get the ball. Clearly our goal should be to keep them off the field. In the games where our offense has played well (not BC) we have dominated the time of possession game and our defense has killed our opponents drive.
Florida doesn’t care how long you have the ball. They go big and see if you can keep up. They average 29:08 minutes of possession per game. Their longest was 32:20 against LSU and only 25:06 against the Citadel (they scored 10 touchdowns in that game). There have been only 5 games that they have lead in TOP and two of those have bee a difference of under 1 minute.
They don’t drive. Their average length of drive is 2:27, the longest being 8:55. They have only had 4 TD drives of 10 plays or more. 52% of their touchdowns occur in 5 plys or less. 68% of their touchdowns are scored in 3 minutes or less. However, 62% of their TD were on drives of 50+ yards.
How do they achieve this? They average 7.3 yards per play, 6.1 per run and 9.3 per pass. They average 8.23 yards on first down. This puts them in a great position to do as they choose on 2nd down. In the UGA game, the Gators had 15 second down plays and ran the ball about 53% of the time.
We need to hold onto the ball and prevent this from happening and don’t give them a short field with turnovers and penalties.
I still think we need significantly better play from our defensive line. It starts up front…
Inspired by this, we'll now be breaking down every game by success rate and points per play.
Louis Nix
Brett Beard from Rivals announced that Louis Nix has softened on his committment to Miami and wants to reopen his options with Florida State, Florida and Georgia,
I think I'm officially a Christian Ponder Apologist now.
-His Oline was the youngest in the nation with Tackles who couldn’t shave yet
-His receivers were constantly suspended and often had trouble grasping the playbook
-His main running back rarely bailed him out (unlike Jeff Cheaney. Must always reference him)
-His defense couldn’t get off the field and produced too few turnovers
-He did have an awesome punter and place-kicker, so no apologies there.
This has nothing to do with this but head over to CBS sportsline and look at Tebow on the frontpage.
His picture screams “I LOVE MEN!”
He was telling the cameraman, "I love that shirt, it looks fabuloussssss!!!
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

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