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Florida State LB Vince Williams Out for 2009 Season

Early reports indicate that the back injury that has been nagging Sophomore linebacker Vince Williams out of spring and summer practices has now officially sidelined him for the 2009 season. Reports indicate that Williams will require surgery to repair the bulging disc in his lower spine that has been causing him problems all spring.

During his Freshman year, Vince Williams a 6'0" 245lbs LB out of Davenport Florida, played in 12 games ad was second among true freshman with 10 total tackles. Williams was ranked the 40th LB in the 2008 recruiting class by ESPN.com and the 10th overall LB by Rivals.com and was only one of three early enrollees in the 2008 class. Clearly, his time paid off as his played in every single game except the Miami game. We were lucky to sign Williams as he was considering LSU, Ohio State and UF.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/fsu/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/1943487.jpeg

Here is a nice piece about Williams at Seminoles.com. Here is a recent interview with Williams from the other site.

Apparently Williams has a herniated disc in his back that is continuing to cause him significant pain and limiting his abilities. The problem with herniated discs is that they cause significant pain and can cause nerve compression, which can lead to numbness, tingling and weakness in the area of the body that the specific body serves, or innervates.

Your spine is divided into five major segments: cervical (you neck), thoracic (your chest), lumbar (your lower back) and sacral (the part of your spine that joins with your hips) and your coccyx (your tailbone). A common location for back injuries is your lumbar spine as it is an area that is subjected to significant stresses and loads.

The anatomy of your spine is quite complex with multiple bone articulations (joints), ligamets, muscles, nerves, blood vessels and discs. The discs serve as the cushioning between your individual vertebrae (bones). The discs are basically fibrous pads that are filled with a jelly like substance that fills the middle (the nucleus).In between each vertebrae is a nerve root that leaves your spinal cord, one one each side.

Here is a cartoon of a normal spine:

http://www.physioweb.org/IMAGES/vertebrae.jpg

Image from here.

This shows a better image of the complexity of the vertebral join and how your spinal cord runs through the vertebrae and how each nerve exits through the foramen (holes) between the vertebrae:

http://www.spineuniverse.com/displaygraphic.php/137/dp_latcutaway-BB.jpg

Over time, that intervertebral disc can herniate (project) into the space that is occupied by the nerve. This causes nerve compression, resulting in pain, burning and weakness. Unfortunately for Vince, he has a disc that has herniated and has not been managed by conservative therapy, meaning rest, exercises and a bit of time.

Here is an image of a herniated disc:

http://droside.com/images/06-1%20Lumbar%20Disk%20Herniation.jpg

Image from here.

These images are looking straight down on top of the vertebral body and demonstrate the variety of disc herniations that can occur.

Here is another image to give you a sense of what is happening:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/sport-trial/graphics/IDH_ADAM.gif

Image from here.

 

As you can imagine, any movement that involves twisting or bending is going to worsen any symptoms caused by the compression of the nerve. You are applying more pressure on the nerve root.

Typically, a herniated disc can be diagnosed by history and a good physical exam. However, MRI is commonly being used to look at the extent of herniation and to plan for surgery. Here is an example of an MRI:

http://www.csmc.edu/images/479350_FARDISC0.jpg

Image from here.

In the image above, the authors (not me) have nicely highlighted the disc that is herniated. In this image, the patient is facing the left and this is the lowest part of the spine, but one of the most common locations for a bulging disc. Look at the discs above the one that is highlighted. For the most part everything looks nice and smooth. There is one disc further up that is starting to herniate, so this is not a perfect image.

 The typical surgery for this type of injury is a microdiscectomy, during which a small incision is made in the back and with the use of a microscope the part of the disc that is compressing the nerves is removed. Most patients only stay one night in the hospital after the procedure. Most patients, 80-95% return to full function after this procedure. So if things go well and Vince has relief of his symptoms, we should hopefully see him back on the field next fall.

There are a variety of other procedures that are available for treating this kind of problem, however I will spare you the details.

We all wish that Vince has a successful surgery without complication and a speedy recovery.

The medical information provided here is simply for discussion and to share basic knowledge with the readers of Tomahawk Nation. If you have any medical questions or concerns, you should contact your primary medical doctor. These articles are not intended to replace the opinions and decisions of a medical professional.

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I feel compelled, once again, to show appreciation for this free, quality info.

I was looking forward to seeing VInce on the field more but better for him to take care of it.

" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"

by FSUvaFan on Jul 20, 2009 11:30 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

Awesome info here.

by PBD on Jul 21, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Vince Williams

Disc herniations generally can be alleviated with Microdiscectomy. However as the nucleus pulposis impinges the nerve root, an inflamatory response occurs. The important thing is to address it as soon as conservative therapy has failed to provide any relief. The next issue would potentally be the recurrance of the herniation and the decrease in the height of the disc which could impinge the nerve roots again. Back surgery is filled with pitfalls and for a young man who plays football potentially tough decisions lie ahead.

by nole34 on Jul 20, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve heard so many horror stories of friends who’ve had back surgeries and never fully recovered. I would avoid surgery like the plague. Wish him the best though.

by TCHOP561 on Jul 21, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nole34:

I don’t know what the hell you just said, but I agree!

'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
'I'm not a Role Model" - Charles Barkley

by Nattylite on Jul 21, 2009 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahah

same thing I thought…glad to see we have an expert with us

by ChileanNole on Jul 21, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just learned a ton. Thanks a bunch, TC

I had no idea what those discs were made of. You continue to amaze me with quality pieces. It’s not even amazement anymore, it’s just wow.

I hope Vince can be back at full strength in Fall 2010. He’ll have two years to play with his brother (2011 recruit).

by Bud Elliott on Jul 20, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Its nice to have a top notch B-ball writer but a Dr too.

How lucky are we. Its like the national guard. They are good soldier for the most part but they bring more to the table because they have there talents from everyday life that an active duty soldier doesnt have.

TC I love your work because I can learn so much from you. Hell I even like B-ball because of you.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

LB's

we are getting thin………

by aaron321 on Jul 21, 2009 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

we needed to reload with the last class.

CJ hurt us a lot more I think. Do you think they will try to move Korey Mangum back up. I though he played a little last year. there are 2 things I see from the Depth chart. we still have 10 Lb but most are 220Lb – 230Lb. and Williams was one of our bigger LB. That is going to hurt the team.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we only have 9, and Recardo Wright is likely leaving the team.

We need to take 4 linebackers this year.

by Bud Elliott on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Telvin Smith, Christian Jones, and who else?

Well, also Jeff Luc (unlikely, though). It stinks that we lost Kendall Moore to the Irish. He could have filled the MLB spot.

by fsufrenzy911 on Jul 21, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will take whatever one could play at about 240lb and still fast.

We need to get some size back there also. I know we dont neet all 4 to be big but I would like to have at least 2 big guys. We need people to come in on short yard plays. and the bigger the better.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Holmes Onwukaife...

Some other sites are reporting he showed enough at Showtime to earn an offer. He’s played DE in HS but is listed as either a DE or OLB but I would guess his size projects at LB if he can retain speed. Did anyone see much of him a SS? I noticed he has an offer from Harvard as well, should be good academically…

by soliman on Jul 21, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can he get a medical redshirt for this year then?

I was so looking forward to seeing him more this year. Quick recoveries to Vince!

Go Noles!!!

by nolefan07 on Jul 21, 2009 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I hope his injury isn't a result of asking his body to do too much.

He’s what, 6 feet tall? And he’s carrying a TON of muscle on that frame.

by The K-Man on Jul 21, 2009 4:19 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it’s just bad luck. 6’0" 245 doesn’t seem like much.

by Bud Elliott on Jul 21, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

We routinely see 6'2 255

I think we’re just conditioned to think vince is huge. He is not. Look at other schools.

by Bud Elliott on Jul 21, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

scary thing is

he wasn’t even the best Strongman from that country (Iceland) – Jon Pall Sigmarsson was by far and away the best. He would likely have won so many titles had he not died that even the great Mariusz Pudzianowski wouldn’t have been able to catch him. From 1984 on, he only lost once when he was healthy (1989 to Jamie Reeves of U.K.), and only 1 other time (1986) to Geoff Capes overall (he finished 2nd but he was injured going into the event and aggravated the injury during the finals). His final title in 1990 he came back to beat O.D. Wilson (U.S.) in the final event. It was a race where he had to win by something like 20 secs and he won by something like 30 secs. It was a rediculous comeback of Choke at Doak proportions (to try to give it some perspective that we are all familiar with). Some of these recollections are foggy as I’m going on memory.

by RishiM on Jul 21, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

"The King Has Lost His Crown!!"

RishiM, who said that? It was from a Strong Man finals between 10-20 years ago. One of the dorkier, uncomfortable moments in sports history. I’m putting that foggy memory to the test, because I can’t remember and I’ll give you a shot before I Google.

by The K-Man on Jul 21, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing it was the Finn Jouko Ahola

when he ended Magnus Ver Magnusson’s 3 yr streak in the mid-90s. Not positive.

Then again it could have been Geoff Capes when he dethroned Bill Kazmeier in 1983 and ended Kaz’ 3 yr streak also (mind you that is >20 yrs ago).

Possibly Jamie Reeves in 1989 when he beat Jon Pall (2 time defending champ). Actually sounds like him.

Those would be the 1st three to come to mind. I’d have suggested Jon Pall (as he loved to talk the talk, because he could definitely walk the walk).

I’d have suggested Phil Pfister, but he won 3 yrs ago, so he doesn’t fit the timeframe (beating out Mariusz).

Remember Google is your friend, interested to find out who did in fact say that.

by RishiM on Jul 21, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

finishing though on Jon Paul

meant I’d have suggested Jon Paul, but he never really beat a long time champ, as Capes dethroned Kaz, and lost his title to Jon Paul. Capes won again the next year before Jon Paul ended up winning 3 of the next 4 with Reeves winning the other. If I remember correctly, Jon Paul never competed again as he was either always hurt or beat out by Magnus Ver Magnusson to represent Iceland (as back then they had a different entry qualification standard).

by RishiM on Jul 21, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

My question wasn't fair.

Google tells me it was J.P. Sigmarsson to Geoff Capes in 1984, 25 years ago.
You’re now the resident Strong Man Guru. (I like to fancy myself the NASCAR Guru)

by The K-Man on Jul 21, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

VW's back

Great write up on that. Very informative. I wish Vince a speedy recovery.

by CurtOFD78 on Jul 21, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions  

I can see Moody being moved up to OLB and probably Bradham moving over to Mike if we get any thinner there. Honestly I would think we have the inside track at Luc if the kid is looking for the ever elusive “immediate PT”. As it stands LB is a concern for ol’ Levy.

Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.

by levynole on Jul 21, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

I had a similar thought, but the problem is we aren't exactly deep at SS either

where we can afford to make that move. I’d prefer to let Moody stay at SS and hope that we are able to find other ways to compensate at LB. Perhaps let Bradham crosstrain at Mike and also crosstrain Nigel Carr at Will so that Carr can back up both Watson adn Bradham and have Bradham and Smith man the middle if Gresham can’t handle the work. If Mister Alexander works out ok at Will he can play more snaps there than perhaps we were anticipating prior to Williams’ injury. Or perhaps crosstrain Watson at the Will so that he can backup Bradham there when Bradham needs a break and let Carr get the snaps at Sam. i.e. mainly go with a 4 man rotation with occasional spelling by Gresham if able and Alexander if necessary. (I didn’t forget Harris aka FSUn’s favourite Nole LB. insert grinning smiley)

by RishiM on Jul 21, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I hope we can keep the injurys down again this year.

We cant take many hits in some places like the o-line, LB and secondary. I dont know hwo we did it last year but whatever it was it worked. Our problem was not injurys but players acting dumb.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 10:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Another excellent sports injury write up TC,

and I hope you are correct in your prognosis for Vince.

I can sympathize with Williams to some degree. I too have herniated disks, but mine are cervical at the C3-C5 levels, which were also sports injury related. However, I chose to bypass surgery altogether since mine involved a combination of discectomy and disc fusion. I decided to live with it for now because a fireman friend of mine who had similiar surgery came out of it worse, from what I can tell.

There have been many breakthroughs in the last few years, and whether he plays football again or not, I wish this young man as good and as quick of a recovery as possible.

>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

by FrankDNole on Jul 21, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

I had L3/L4 done in October

Had a massive ruptured disc. It got to the point where I could not function in every day life (noticeable limp, not able to get up stairs, only being able to walk short distances). Within a week after the surgery, I was noticeably better. Up and running around a month after. It’s obviously not D1 football. Also, Vince is physical specimen in good shape (I was not). Should only help him in his recovery.

Not knowing all the specifics of what Vince needs (things get really hairy when you get into fusions like E Dunbar had). If it’s just clearing out tissue to remove the pressure on the nerve, I think he would have good shot to make a full recovery.

by LaneFenner on Jul 21, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Another great installment of the Tomahawk Journal of Medicine!

I know know the best quality players have already been picked through at this point, but is there any chance of picking up a late qualifying JUCO? It’d be nice to have a big ol’ boss to put in the middle to stop the run on 3rd down and goalline situations.

by TBfisherman on Jul 21, 2009 12:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Does Kimbo have any eligibility left?

I’d like to see a QB try a sneak with Kimbo waiting for him at the line of scrimage. I am looking forward to the next Ultimate Fighter season to see if he can hang. I have a suspicion that he won’t last long.

by TBfisherman on Jul 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don;t envy Williams

I had the local PD run a red light going to another wrieck and run over me. My spine was curved like a bow. A chiro whip lashed it back in place. I did not herniate any discs but it stretched all the muscles and tendons.

It kept sliding out of place again around the hip and having to be snapped back into place for a long time. It is better now but there is always that twinge of pain that lets you know things will never be the same.

The PD tried to sue my insurance company claiming they had a siren going which nobody heard. They ended up giving me the fabulous amount of $2500. What a great bunch of guys.

Weinke had some titanium in his back and played a long time with it but he was not a linebacker. It did not work out that well for Emmanuel Dubar.

by DocHoliday2 on Jul 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Weinke

Weinke had a 360 degree cervical fusion.That is where you remove the disc in the neck and put in a bone graft and then a plate on the front of the vertebra. In his surgery, cables were put around the back of the neck to insure stability and increase the chance of the bones growing together. Neck surgeries have a much higher success rate than low back surgeries.

by nole34 on Jul 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had no idea so many members of TN had back problems.

" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"

by FSUvaFan on Jul 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

my back dont give me problems its my knees.

Jumping out of plains did it for me.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

You werent dupped into thinking that you can jump out of a plain right before it crashes were you? Just kidding.

That sucks about your knees.

" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"

by FSUvaFan on Jul 21, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

no They are still good

More like the recruiter told me Airborne is the way to go

Should have went to college.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Jul 21, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't there a member named Badknees?

I’ve had issues with my lower back and have been to a chiro on occasion (nothing serious). I also can’t squat for a more than a minute or two without feeling discomfort. Good thing I can still walk.

Pray that Vince has a speedy recovery.

by CSI Nole on Jul 21, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference. - Ty Cobb

by badknees81 on Jul 21, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I figure we'll all get them eventually considering the amount of time we're

on our computers reading here at TN.

I figure we got TrueCubbie and nole34 to explain the complexities of the back injuries we suffer and the host of attorneys on here to decide our best plan of action to use when figure out how these “addictive” articles here on TN (courtesy of SB Nation → our true target) caused our back problems.

Man another stories up, hope the back can handle it :D

by RishiM on Jul 21, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just corrected my posture after reading your post...

Yeah this site is a buffett full of steak and lobster at the price of $0.

" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"

by FSUvaFan on Jul 21, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Terrible news.

I hate to hear that for Vince. I hope he can make it all the way back in 2010.

by fsunole23 on Jul 21, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

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