FSU Defensive Tackle Justin Mincey Suffers Knee Injury as the 'Nole Offense Dominates the Defense Again
by Bud Elliott on Aug 13, 2009 1:56 PM EDT
in FSU Football
107 comments
"It was a very good day for the offense, a terrible day for the defense, and a bad day for FSU overall. (because of the injury)" _ Someone who watched practice today.
I'm told that the beatdown given by the offense today was similar to the drubbings administered throughout the spring. Christian Ponder looks very good, and that is in no small part because the pass protection is there. A pocket is forming. There were fewer long runs than in the spring, but the passing game more than made up for it. Let's link to Andrew Carter at the Sentinel today, as he had the first practice report up.
Justin Mincey injured his knee. I spoke with three people who attended practice and their responses were "definitely not good", "it looks like a big one", and "let's hope for a miracle." That's not encouraging to say the least. Mincey is important for the 'Noles because they have very little depth on the defensive interior, and he really came on at the end of last season. I am sure they will know more when the swelling goes down but Mincey definitely can't walk right now.
The offense did a great job attacking the middle of the field today. They picked on middle linebacker Kendal Smith and Strong Safety Korey Mangum. Of course, Mangum plays the rover, which FSU uses too heavily in run support, thus leaving that player vulnerable to the pass. Nobody has outplayed Mangum, however, so for now the spot is his. The defense played better against the run today than they did in the spring, but as Andrew points out, there were many many big plays made in the passing game. It appears the defense is really selling out to stop the run, and over-committing their secondary to help stop it. Of course, teams have to do that when their front-7 isn't capable of handling the run by themselves. I've heard from someone who was not keeping official stats, that there were "probably 10 or more 20+ yard passes." That's encouraging for the offense, but the defense must play better than that. To be honest, however, we've told everyone for months now that this offense, which was already the best in the conference, was going to be very good. The main question in the minds of coaches who had watched FSU's film, and undoubtedly FSU's coaches, was the pass protection. It appears that at least on the first day in pads, the protection was there.
Go read Carter's article and then come back. We'll comment on some of the tid-bits and update when more info trickles in.
Commenting here.
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He came in a lot skinnier than I thought he would be.
Still hard to lose anyone on the D-Line. Especially with Thacker being complete crap.
Just wants to beat the Gators
damn call budd out like that
TO BAD ITS TRUE. I think we need to wait on this one though. Hes hurt I hope its only minor. will be praying for his health.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
i dont know if this is a good or bad thing?
good that the offense is so good?
or bad that the defense seems so bad?
imo it might not be that big of a deal that the defense is stuggling, because if the offense is that good then that is great news, and also practicing against an explosive offense is only gonna make the defense better in the long run when going against them day in and day out.
If we have a great Offence then how would our def look agents an OK offence like the rest of the ACC.
I know thats not a good statment but I dont think the ACC has strong Offences. there is us and then GT thats about it. Vt is not a stong Offence IMO.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
No offence,
but I think you misspelled Offense.
by Fire Machine on Aug 13, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
youll get use to it
I suck with my spelling and I try to google unless Im at work where I dont have time to do it all that much. If it bothers you Im sorry I try.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
You're Desman. I know what you mean.
Don’t let someone get you down about your spelling.
Just wants to beat the Gators
This is how we grow...
This is how we grow as human beings.
Grow with me, boys!
by Fire Machine on Aug 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you know what is so funny about that.
Hes a Senator now. thats so cool.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Your spelling is like Boomhower trying to talk on King of the Hill
" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"
Its not that bad
close but not that bad. And you can all thank Fl EDU for all they have done for me.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
I don't think we can say...
that our Offense is truly explosive or elite yet, but I think it is safe to say we are truly balanced going into the season. IMO it is that balance that is killing the defense. So far the front 7 couldn’t stop the run and gave up big plays to JT and crew. Now in an effort to sell out on the run Ponder is hammering them with the deep ball. This bodes well for the season because even with their problems how many ACC defenses would you take over ours?
I think we may be able to breathe a little easier as the season goes when looking at the defense. Most ACC offenses are pretty one dimensional. Hopefully MA and crew can at least gameplan enough to slow down the other team.
by osceolafan850 on Aug 13, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what I was getting at.
I think we are better than the rest of the ACC if we are bad agenst Our Offense then we might be ok vs the rest of the ACC. That dont mean we will be good but Ok is better than bad. Also our best Def will be our Offense and there clock control.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Our D may be able to contain most ACC offenses.
but theyre going to need to definitely be studying for the Georgia Tech game.
Correct me if im wrong but do i remember reading that MA was going to be spending a certain amount of time every practice of the year to go over the option?
You are correct sir
10 minutes of every practice devoted to the option. It’s one of our favorite strategic plans at TN. Absolutely equivalent to three weeks of prep!
Swagger, Intensity, Execution
and at this current pace
10 minutes seems like more time that we thought…Heck, that’s more than 60 plays :)
Last year, I'd take 4 or 5 defenses over ours
This year?
Definitively:
Clemson
UNC
VTech
Definitely not:
NCST
Duke
Maryland
UVA
Wake
GT not in the Definitively column?
I’m surprised. Figured they’d rank above VT.
Let's say that we breakdown the defenses into my 3 favorite units, D-Line, LB's, and Secondary, instead of position by position, just to simplify things.
Are you saying that Clemson’s, UNC’s, and VTech’s, 3 same defensive units, are all better than our 3 defensive units? Or are you saying there are some units of each team you think are better than our corresponding unit?
While there are some units on those teams I would swap with ours, without doing any research and based only on the little I think I know, I don’t think all 3 teams 3 units are better than ours across the board? I would pick and choose, but not across the board.
Am I wrong?
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I would take
Those 3 defenses over our defense, total.
I don’t love Clemson’s linebackers, but their DLine and Secondary are elite on a national level.
VTech is of course very good, and UNC is excellent as well.
I was thinking Clemson yes and VTech maybe.
I was thinking I was not sold on UNC. I will keep an eye out for them and report my findings back to you. Thanks.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Im not sold on UNC ether.
I have a gut feeling they had a few players shin last year but Im not going to say they are all that good. Last year they started off beating Mcneese St by a TD, they lost to UVA and Marland. They beat ND wow and they had x2 weeks for GT. I think they are over rated.
As for VT I think they have the same as last year. A good Def with no Offense and then to top it off they just lost there #1 RB and only have 4TFr and 1 broke Sr coming off a ACL I think.
And as For Clemson Its all about what Dabo does with what he has and thats a lot. Its like Miami There is so much talent there its scary but at the same time Im not going to buy into Dabo knows what hes doing like Shannon. Again though Clemson big win streak at the end last year wow the beat Duke, UVA, and USC (cocks). You can say they are stacked but tommy wasnt that bad and they still lost 6 games. I think they win more this year but not more than 8.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Offense dominating D {}{}{} (yes thats a fence)
I think in all reality it is a very very good thing that the O is far superior to the D this YR in preseason
A) We know our defense may be subpar so our standards and certainly not at this point in time anywhere elite, but it shows us how good our offense is because we also know that at many positions (as noted in the Regression/Progression ((im too lazy to link it)) pieces) many units are in fact upgraded or have more potential than last years D.
2) This gives our defense an opportunity to practice against an ,dare I say, ELITE Offense which I think we can all agree is extremely valuable for preparation against some of our tougher opponents down the road (yes GT and UF specifically)
D) This also gives our defensive coaches a fire under their respective asses to update their schemes and maybe to figure out how to cover a Spread O that has big Run potential. If you think about it last year we only had 2 games to really experience this and this preseason we will have what will amount to almost 20…….so I think we can expect to see some real progress here, especially since I know that Mickey doesnt like to be consistently embarassed.
Hooray for A2D
Espn do you think maybe we could get someone to cover the ACC that wears big boy pants?
TEBOW IS A GAY ROBOT
by stevegrizzle on Aug 14, 2009 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope...
that this doesn’t get Dawkins moved back to DT. There really are no good ways for the team to handle losing a D-lineman this early. Even with the good news about Jacobi I wouldn’t expect him to be ready to be a major player in week 1.
Not sure whether the consistent outplaying by the offense
speaks to the O’s ability (a step up) or that the D has lost some of it’s ability.
www.bucem.com - SBNation's source for all things Buccaneer
Just curious
Does anyone on here keep up with what the Gayturds , OK, or TX does in fall practice? Does the offense dominate in OK practices? Is it more back n forth? Does haden pick off Tebow a few times?
by noles 4 life u dig? on Aug 13, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
Apparently...
UF’s oline is really struggling in camp right now. Defense is dominating.
They said the same exact thing about the D Line last year though, and we all saw how that turned out.
But I do think their O Line issues are what’s making them think about employing this wild cat crap with Haden.
They scared.
by Fire Machine on Aug 13, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a fan of speaking about UF on our board but
A good friend of mine (somewhat unbiased gator) told me the defense is way ahead of the offense right now to the point that he said the defense is completely smothering Tebow and offense. Now keep in mind that a) their defense might be the best in the country, b) Tebow is untouchable in practices and thus can’t use his power running at all and c) UF is replacing 2-3 WR (Harvin/Murphy) and 3 of 5 OL. It will take them time to be explosive on offense at the start of the season.
by FtLauderdaleNole on Aug 13, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
Thair D was the nation's best last year IMO
I really hope the offense keeps pounding our D. This D is made to play the pass.
I kind of agree
If our offense can really be explosive and allow us to set the pace of the game (i.e. we maintain the lead, control the clock and put up big numbers), I think our D will be able to be more aggressive and play a little more reckless, like go after picks more.
I feel like that is exactly what happend last year with the Gators (besides them having badass talent). Because their offense played so well and got them HUGE leads in so many games so early, their D was able to just play aggressive as hell and really helped them develope a lot of their players. They just got better and better throughout the season.
by Fire Machine on Aug 13, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
How many years has the defense dominated the offense during the fall practice?
How many times has Bowden said “Well, the defense is almost always ahead of the offense because they have to get in sync.” This either bodes very well for the offense or is a terrifying premonition of how our year is going to go. With the injuries and lack of depth I can’t help but wonder if things are going to be very lopsided this year. Are we looking at the offense carrying the defense? Are we looking at shootout after shootout?
http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/
Are we looking at the offense carrying the defense?
Yes
Are we looking at shootout after shootout?
Depends on how fast the offense wants to play.
I don't think there will be major shootouts
Because the offenses we face aren’t the most prolific and our defense isn’t totally incapable. I also think our defense if it remains healthy will much better in the middle and at the end of the season.
Hear anything about...
…Jones, Pressley, Thompson? Should I break out the vodka, put that single bullet in the chamber,and give the sixer a spin? I know those three weren’t necessarily going to be a huge part of the offense, but I was really looking forward to having a strong group of guys in the backfield. Hopefully those players with minor nagging injuries will get them resolved quickly enough to get in quality practice time. Givens on that list too I guess. Thompson’s sounds like the worst one. Maybe a high ankle sprain? Sure hope not. . Maybe I’m just freakin out a little bit. Not good at all for Mincey. Hopefully it is a minor sprain with a lot of swelling. Most likely not. Sounds like from the pain level he tore stuff. Disclaimer: I am by no means a doctor. I heard they go to school for a very long time. However I did get to watch my brother go through a very bad knee injury after getting hurt playing the foosball. Tore ligaments. Two arthroscopic surgeries later and he could walk without a knee brace.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
Pressley is very limited
Jones has a hamstring issue
Thompson has an ankle issue, which he has struggled with in the past, but is playing great.
Thompson is not limited in practice?
That would be nice.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 13, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah I see. I can't read good. Was confused for a tic.
But now the meeting is in order and we are back in proper posture. Thanks.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 13, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Foosball?
Your brother hurt his knee playing foosball? That’s the tabletop soccer game with the guys on sticks that you (should not) spin around. How does one manage to do that??? I’m going to have to sell my foosball table asap. Anyone want one?
HAHA...
No sorry. It was a Waterboy reference. Bobby’s mom: “you aint playin no foosball! (football)” My brother was on D/O line. Set a block and caught a helmet on the side of the knee. The trainers there had no idea what to do as they looked down and saw a patella that was knocked all the way to the side of his knee. So he sat there…for a loooong time before anything was done.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 13, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I was afraid of this
I am just wonder how many injuries will crop up during fall.
Trickett’s line may bust them all up.
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
Glad to see our offense doing well
It well help us in conference. Out of conference, I would rather have a good defense….esp pass pro. Something needs to happen before we square off against BYU, USF, UF.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
Im hoping our d is getting burned because our offense is just that awesome.
but i have a feeling thats a little bit too much wishful thinking.
This is one of the disadvantages of the new practice schedule. More reps = more chance of injury. All in all, I think the pros outway the cons, and it’s a step in the right direction.
Although it prob sounds obvious, the one conlusion we can safely make is that our offense will be stronger than our defense. How strong will the O be? How weak will the D be? Time will tell once the season gets underway.
This is a good point
Injury = Injury Rate X Opportunity
The O was already the best in the conference with basically zero pass protection. I think it can carry us to 9 wins if the defense can attain “average”
see thats what Im talking about.
We might get 9 I think maybe 10 wins all we need is the Def to show up to one game where the Offense didnt. With most teams in the ACc running a more pro style look we should be ok .
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
AC is reporting that we have multiple RB's injured. Did this not get posted here?
Anyone know anything about this? types of injuries etc?
I don't think any of them are serious, which is why they weren't mentioned.
Both Pressley and Ty have something going on with their hamstrings, and Thompson something with his ankle.
I don’t think any of the 3 are the dreaded season-enders, though, just might slow them down for a few weeks.
Well...
25 days to game day. Hopefully they get in some good reps within a few weeks, not after.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 13, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a blow.
I was counting on him. We worry all year about him staying eligible, and he gets hurt? Football.
We got mentioned in the Sporting News
ACC’s best blog: www.tomahawknation.com
by FSUSOM on Aug 13, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
outstanding
See FSUn your hard work has paid off now we have to keep you here and not lose you to ESPN or one of those other Blog sites. Unless you take over for HD. that would be so funny
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Yes, I received it in the mail today.
I was surprised too. It’s in the ACC preview. Dunno about the online thing.
You could probably pick one up at a gas station and flip through it.
On page 33: The best of the ACC
Not possible.
TN’s not a legitimate news outlet. Per premium info at once-popular FSU paysite. (Written by suspected adult virgin with a god complex.)
(Poorly.)
by TRMNole on Aug 14, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mincey is a hugh lost because we have no depth at that position
Hopefully the young pups can grow up quickly because they’re needed in order for our defense to be functional.
Freaking Warchant
Within 2 minutes deleted my link to the Orlando Sentinel practice report. They have nothing of value that is free on todays practice. The photo gallery is sponsored by Moes they wouldnt even offer that I take it. I used to pay for a subscription for 3 years but the info nazi tactics are a real turn off. I didnt put 2 and 2 together as to why the free board had no real good discussions lately ..guess it’s because they delete all the good stuff and claim it as premium.
Been reading over here for a while and referring people..just never bothered to post.
Welcome, Tye9000!
We welcome the free flow of information. We’re all ’Noles here and we all want to know what happens in the program. Glad you enjoy it and keep telling people! I think we will be 83,000 strong again this month!
Just so you know...
We reported on the Justin Mincey injury in Tribal Council three months ago.
Warmest Regards,
DOT COM
I saw it. They got
girls half their age to do a wet t-shirt contest. Winner got to report it
by pillsburysoldier on Aug 13, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Man not good news.
I hope somehow Justin is ok. I was really looking for a breakout season from him. We our thin at d line too.
the only reason i read warchant is I'm reading all the Nole sites
right now..so excited to get this season started. Coonhound you totally had me fooled for a sec..I thought Dot Com must have a google alert on warchant and responded to my criticism.. that got me pretty good.
Terry Bowden picked up Eddinger and put him on scholarship
no big deal, just one more guy to little FSU.
Any update on Mincey?
I’m thinking no news might be good news at this point, if it was a ligament they would know pretty quickly. Mostly wishful thinking on my part…
None yet.
Hoping the swelling goes down and it’s a sprain.
by Bud Elliott on Aug 14, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome Tye and Kid da garnet & gold
Like I am fond of saying there comes a time when you get enough jtally! LOL
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
The Noles will make people pay
The Noles will be awesome this year, why? Remember UF was 9-4 the previuos season, had a very run oreinted offense and porus defense.
We are now in the same boat only we lack a little of the depth they had on defense. Last year their defense started terrible and then caught fire as Tebow started making people pay for loading the box once he became a more efficent passer as the season went along. THe Gators were able to score AND eat up the clock thgus making it easier for thier defense to defend the other team as they couldn’t be as balanced due to the scoring deficits.
That’s exactly what is going to happen with us as you see Ponder is getting more and more comfortable in that pocket due to the better protection he’s getting as I said he would. FSU’s defense is one of the top three in the ACC overall. This isn’t Duke’s defense he rampaging through out there. Mincey’s injury hurts but that gives an opportnity for Thacker to show waht he’s made of. It doesn’t appear Mincey is out for the year so by the time we play someone important he should be at least 85% if its a bruise or strained ligament.
Will we have the season UF had last year coming off that 9-4 season, no. But we will win the ACC and win at least 11 games to set us to WIN the NC next year.
This would be a lot more convincing if......
You werent so confident in Thacker………
I wish him the best but I doubt we can expect a whole lot from him. I think the Younger guys will be much of of the difference maker
Espn do you think maybe we could get someone to cover the ACC that wears big boy pants?
TEBOW IS A GAY ROBOT
by stevegrizzle on Aug 14, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t like Thacker’s skinny legs but they;ll do until McDaneil comes up on line or Mincey returns. The toughest game ibn that stretch should be GT. Hopefully Mincey will be back by then.
not to be too disagreeable
but Florida didn’t eat up the clock last year on offense at all.
They were 63rd in time of possession, attributable to the efficiency of their offense. FSU was 20th in TOP. The Gators defense wasn’t good because their offense held onto the ball. That is simply false
Anyway, I hope you are correct about your predicted outcome.
No they were good because they had depth number one and thier offense put a lot of pressure on opposing offenses to match points which takes you out of a balanced offense and make you pass more.
This where I hate stats, overall they were 63rd in TOP of possision but in big games they held the ball more than average. witness the the OU game and Bama game. It was the offense possessing the ball that made the biggest difference because the defense couldn’t really stop Bama or OU.
I count 7 wins for the gators last season
where they had the ball for a significantly smaller period of time than their opponent. Most of those wins were blowouts.
I agree that the high scoring nature of their offense puts pressure on the other team to abandon their game plan and pass more.
Your original argument was that the Gators were good (successful) because they could score and eat up the clock.
I don’t agree that the reason why the Gators were good last year had anything to do with holding onto the ball, although they were capable of doing so when the game plan called for it (in the final two games). They had the ball for much longer periods of time against Bama and OK, but that wasn’t their style during the entire regular season. The ball control shown by Florida in the final two games was an anamoly, and did not have anything to do with forcing the opposition to change their play selection, since both of those games were close and relatively low scoring. In short, in the few games where they did control the clock, there were no scoreboard issues making the defense better appear better than they were.
And other than giving up 31 points to Ole Miss, I don’t see how you could say that UF’s defense was at any point during the season, terrible, either at the start or otherwise.
They weren’’t good the first two or three games into the year although the final scores were very lopsided. I saw all three games and they looked bad on defense. That’s why I don’t trust stats. Stats say FSU’s pass defense was in the Top Six in the country but we all know they weren’t based on our own eyes looking at the games.
“There are three types of lies. There are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.” – Benjamin Disraeli (Britsih prime minster)
Thacker is going to get knocked around again. He weighs 265.
The talent gap between UF and us is large. Saying we lack depth on D is the understatement of the day. I would be STUNNED if this ended up a top 3 defense in the conference (smart measures, not ypg, ppg, etc.). Offense should be able to control the ball and score often, and it will be an elite offense for the conference. Winning the ACC would exceed expectations and would be a huge boost for this program with stagnant defensive (and head) coaching.
Swagger, Intensity, Execution
You have been warned! The word stagnant is not allowed per FSUn's directive. Next violation will result in 3 day suspension.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
They have better depth, they have better starting talent in some areas and we’re better than them in some areas. We;re better at RB, WR, LB. We’re even on OL, they’re better on the DL and the secondary (even though I’ll take Robinson and J-Rob over thier CB and FS anyday).
The difference between UF and FSU is Mickey Andrews and maybe depth along the DL not talent.
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