Florida State Wednesday Practice Update: Bowden has Concerns about Run Defense
by Bud Elliott on Aug 20, 2009 12:23 PM EDT
in FSU Football
120 comments
"We've still got a long way to go, especially on defense," Bowden said.
via cmsimg.tallahassee.com- Glen Beil/ AP
FSU Senior defensive tackle Budd Thacker is tiny and getting destroyed in practice by the 'Nole's impressive offensive line. if FSU's defense is going to stop the run this year, they must depend on promising but likely inconsistent youth along the defensive interior.
FSU's had the ACC's top offense last year and it keeps clicking. The defense continues to give up big plays. The 'Noles offense continues to run. The defense continues to think "pass-first.", just like they did last year:
The defense wasn't bad last year (about 25th overall), they were just great against the pass and horrible against the run.
You might ask "wait, if the defense is doing poorly, doesn't that just mean that the offense is just doing really well? Yes and no. The important thing to remember is that in practice, the QB is down with a one-hand touch. That's not the case in a real game, obviously. The practical effect of this is that in practice, the defense doesn't have to account for the quarterback. They can effectively defense him by treating him as an afterthought. As such, the defense's numbers should be better because they have the built in advantage. But that is not the case, and even FSU's overly-optimistic practice reports can't hide the defensive struggles.
Inside, we'll discuss yesterday's practice...
The offense gashed the defense with the run. Weve spoken with several people who know players, and they were bragging about their performance yesterday.
When the full pads go on, Florida State's running game seems to come to life. At least that continues to be the case throughout preseason practice._ Seminoles.com
Seminoles.com won't say anything negative about the team, but I've read these reports for years. This means: the defense is getting crushed, just as they did all Spring. They continue to be horrible against the run, just as they were last year. They continue to be very undersized and Jimbo Fisher's offense is having a field day with them. Mickey's defense is not adapting to changes in modern offense. The defensive players continue to be confused as lame duck coaches Chuck Amato, Jodey Allen, and Mickey Andrews continue to preach intensity and aggression, without instilling in players the confidence enabling understanding of the schemes they are asked to execute.
-The offense continues to impress. It was a perfect 4-for-4 against the defense in goal line, and apparently it wasn’t even close. There simply weren’t a lot of highlights for the defense today. Wasn’t a bad thing we missed out on talking to Mickey Andrews, because Mickey probably wouldn’t have stopped, anyway._ Andrew carter.
In Goal line, the offense continued to dominate. Thomas and Jones scored on runs of 3 and 1 yards against the first-team defense, while Pryor added a 3-yard touchdown run and Jones another 1-yard scoring burst, against the second-team. Walk-on fullback Danny Gard had the key blocks on the last two scores.
And to think, FSU's offense is doing this with only 10 players! the defense doesn't have to account for the 11th player!
Tavares Pressley and Ty Jones Return
With tailbacks Tavares Pressley and Ty Jones getting their first extended work since returning from hamstring strains, the Seminoles moved the ball effectively on the ground throughout the second half of Wednesday's afternoon practice.
"We ran 'ol Pressley a lot today just to see what kind of shape he was in," FSU coach Bobby Bowden said. "He ran good but he gave out."
Pressley was the primary ball-carrier for the first-team offense during 11-on-11 work, when the Seminoles started at the 50 yard line. He repeatedly ripped off runs between 6-12 yards, displaying power and speed, though he did lose a fumble downfield. That fumble proved costly when Pressley landed on the football, knocking the wind out of him, and ultimately ending his day prematurely.
Still, it was the first significant contact work Pressley has had in more than two years, since transferring from El Camino (Cal.) Community College. He missed all of last season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament, suffered early in preseason camp.
"(Pressley) did some good things and some bad things," offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher said. "When you hit it up in there now, this ain't junior college. There are men on the other side."
Jones also received significant work with the second-team offense and was largely effective running between the tackles.
Wednesday's practice concluded with the customary goal line drill, which was once again dominated by the offense.Thomas and Jones scored on runs of 3 and 1 yards against the first-team defense, while Pryor added a 3-yard touchdown run and Jones another 1-yard scoring burst, against the second-team. Walk-on fullback Danny Gard had the key blocks on the last two scores.
I don't expect Pressley to be a significant factor this year because it typically takes a full year of work to get "right" again after ACL surgery. Fisher's comments indicate he is running tentatively, and that could change some, but it's highly unlikely that he would have the necessary confidence in that knee to be an effective runner at this level this season.
Coaches Not Risking Jermaine Thomas' Health- Lonnie Pryor Makes the Most of His Increased Role
Give the coaches a big hand for this one. Thomas isn't a small back, but he isn't huge. There is abolutely no reason to run him in live practice and risk an injury.
While Jermaine Thomas earned a break throughout a large chunk of scrimmage work, 212-pound freshman tailback Lonnie Pryor continued to rip off yardage after initial contact and earn the coaching staff's praise. "The guy that keeps looking good is Pryor," Bowden said. "Sometimes he looks like he's the best back we've got. He just does better than he's supposed to do. He's supposed to faint every now and then, but he ain't fainted yet."
Does Pryor fully understand the offense yet? Doubtful. Can he be used in a limited role to emphasize his skills and minimize possible mistakes? Absolutely.
Andrew Carter reports that Senior "Y/X" Rod Owens is doing pretty well. That's good, particularly if Easterling needs a blow during a game.
Steve Ellis reports that freshman RB Chris Thompson is out of his protective boot, but still limited. Sophomore Safety Terrance Parks is back in practice and that's a good sign.
- Photo 12: Zebrie Sanders looks much bigger than last year.
- 13: Datko and Rhonnie Sanderson looking like linemen and not tight ends. Good job on the off-season guys.
- 23-25: Richard Goodman has the most "vieniest" arms I have ever seen.
Wednesday Free Photo Gallery 2
- Photo 11: Datko (67) looking much wider than last year.
- 18: Jermaine Thomas runs with ball, Beau Reliford looking big in the background. Glad to see he put on weight in the off-season program.
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Our hope for this year
is to get a big enough lead to force teams to pass. MA wants to pin the ears back and rush the QB anyway. If we can get a lead and force the other teams to play into his hands we can be good. We might have trouble in close games though.
Right, FSU is excellent against the pass, and arguably the best in the nation against non-play action passes.
by Bud Elliott on Aug 20, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That dont make sence then whats stoping teams from running playaction all game.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Simple
A team can’t run play action all the time because you need the credible threat of the run. If you put the other team in a position where you do not have to worry about the run, like 3rd and long or a position where the clock running would be in your favor, then the threat of the run isn’t effective so the play action just means the QB is holding the ball longer.
by osceolafan850 on Aug 20, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If they run play action every play then no we wouldnt comit on the run but then the run on us with draws and such
We suck agenst Playaction right. Well what play killed us last year in the BC game. The HB zone read. I think they will use this play right off the bat and us it tell we stop it again. If we do the go to playaction pass with a zone read look. If we can stop that then they might be scrwed but that is a lot of ifs.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Why does it take Bobby 5 years to recognize what everyone else...
sees? And why doesn’t he actually do anything once he notices it?
Seriously, FSU doesn’t even make mid decade changes, let alone mid game changes.
I don't think he we notice if he stepped on a mine....
I mean seriously. He either is COMPLETELY obvilious or he has NO idea how to fix things or he refused to fix things because he fears change more than losing. Which is it? But it is horrible watching him just be little more than a card board cut out.
Because Bowden isn't committed to winning.
And neither is FSU. Keep your expectations realistic and enjoy the season.
FYI - Uncensored has been promising this "dance" for some time now.
Whether or not you hold him to it is a personal preference you must decide for yourself.
FSUn AT 8-4 OR BETTER!
GO NOLES!
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
by FrankDNole on Aug 20, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Aug 20, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
ever watch WWE when DX thorws a party
And they get the Fat Striper guy its like always the some dude. I wish I could insert here for ya
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Presley
My favorite quote here
“(Pressley) did some good things and some bad things,” offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher said. “When you hit it up in there now, this ain’t junior college. There are men on the other side.”
Not bad for having not touched a football almost for two years.
The one photo of CTC was cut off at bra level? What are we hiding here?
Great idea not running Thomas much I agree. We pretty much know what he can do and the smart move is allow superman Jones and Pryor to familiarize themselves with the offense more.
In past years they would have probably run him until he had an ACL. The Kendra debacle still comes to mind when they were hitting the quarterbacks.
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
I think everyone has an ACL....
Kinda hard to walk w/o one….lol
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.
Elayne Boosler
Great stuff, but I'm not sure exactly what this sentence means:
. . . without instilling in players toe confidence enabling understanding of the schemes they are asked to execute.
Thanks.
Been lurking some, but real busy at work, etc.
BTW, I haven’t seen a retraction yet re: Pryor. Is it too early yet? ;)
Just messin with ya...
but I’ve alwasy thought Pryor has just as much potential as Thompson. Certainly, they are completely different backs with different skill sets.
On the other hand, William Hung could probably pick up decent yardage behind this line…
William could average 4 yards per carry just hopping over the splattered d-linemen that trickett’s boys are slaughtering twice a day.
by The K-Man on Aug 20, 2009 2:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hehe
I was thinking the same thing after reading all these fairly glowing reports on Pryor.
From the scrimmage:
“What Fisher did see was solid running from tailbacks Jermaine Thomas and Lonnie Pryor. Pryor, a freshman pressed into significant action due to injury, led the Seminoles with 51 yards on nine carries.”
Wouldn’t that be with the offensive twos vs. the defensive ones?
Thomas by comparison:
“Thomas added 36 yards on eight carries”
That would be with the offensive ones vs. the defensive twos.
I hope the love
ISN’T getting to Thomas’ head. He still has to be tough and ready for game action…
We will get to see how much greatness Thomas truly has as the mental component of competition is much more crucial than your physical ones (at this stage of the game).
If not, we are going to see one hell of a hard working, deliberate backing job in Pryor
Yeah, that's where I was coming from...
However, it does sound like Thompson may still be the better of the two (being compared to Dunn), which would coincide with FSUn’s belief.
But Thomas
Has the best body of all of em… Just hope he puts in the best effort… But damn, the things he could do with that frame… size, speed and agility all perfectly work in tandom with him…
Bleh… I wanna see 10 100+ a game from him…
Yes… I will ride his shnoz… as long as he produces
"Why does it take Bobby 5 years to recognize what everyone else..."
INERTIA!
The check is in the mail and it will arrive either way.
By the way “toe” confidence is a secret formula rubbed on the toe held only by CTC to prevent turf toe. He is out of bat saliva at present which is required in the ingredient.
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
You have to wonder
Do you think Thacker loss the weight for the ladies? No point in even fooling his self that he would make the league. Might as well slim down for the honies.
Surprisingly, a lot of chicks have a fat guy fetish
something to do with being cuddly and soft… unfortunately, I’m the opposite of that.
For the record, I'm just trying to reach my goal of one day scratching "Thacker's mom showed up" off my TN wish list.
Surely she’ll realize Gene can’t touch us here.
my wish didnt come true.
It’s hard to imagine that deep down, Bud really thought he’d become dominate while flirting with 270. I was hoping he’d realized this in June and swung for the fences.
Imagine Bud on an Ultimate Warrior-esque stack of HGH, Test, Winstrol, and Dianabol. He really has little to lose. Just put on 45 pounds of lean Kobe beef in 6 weeks and cross your fingers that the NCAA doesn’t become suspicious. They’re too busy trying to strip Markus White’s eligibility anyways.
by The K-Man on Aug 20, 2009 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I hate to say this...
but maybe Thacker should look into baseball’s “muscle recovery” program.
I don't understand what role Thacker plays on our team
He isn’t an excellent player, he certainly isn’t a leader or a good influence on the underclassmen. The only thing I see him doing is taking up a scholarship and a squad number. I would much rather cut my teeth on the youngsters who will have highs and lows other than Bud who is constant mediocrity.
He is more critical than you would like to believe
Because we have no depth. Thacker, Harris, Imeokparia, & Gresham are critical for depth only. Wade is less critical now with Easterling, Owens, and Goodman back.
I’m not saying its good depth, but its the only depth we have.
I like Thacker
I just think the coaches have him playing at the wrong position.
DE
where his dad played, where he played in hs, where he was recruited to play, and where his weight would suffice.
Is he quick enough?
I just don’t see him being able to beat a tackle around the outside with his speed. Although having a front four of McDaniel/McCray at DT and Thacker/White would increase the overall size of the line, I just don’t see it happening.
that would be pretty intresting
to see bud at de…he wouldnt even have to be the fastest ever…if he could just use his size and strength to bull rush the tackles 2-3 yards into the backfield that could make a world of difference in blowing a play up.
he needs to head up to NFSU
My bad N bama with PP and Sims.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Another huge concern for me is Rover
Inexplicably, Mangum continues to be listed as the starter and his apparently getting the first-team reps.
Based on what’s happening with our D-Line, our rover is going to be needed in run support. Mangum can’t tackle a mannequin.
I'm curious why Nick Moody hasn't secured that job.
My only guess is that Mangum, having been in the system for a while longer, knows the schemes better. I don’t think he’s as bad as some make him out to be, but you are correct that he is a liability in run support. We’ll miss Rolle big-time for that reason alone.
I'm an anti-Mangum guy from day 1 personally
BUT, I think if anything Mangum can slow a back down until LB’s recover or a corner comes to help. I honestly think Mangum will end up splitting time. In my perfect world he definitely wouldn’t be the starter, but its dilemmas like this that make 2010 that much more difficult to wait for.
Well
Maybe he will defend the pass better than Rolle because role got burnt so much its ridiculous… Mickey either made him look stupid, of which anyone is going to look stupid there or he just wasn’t a great pass defender.
Last year watching in Doak
Every time I saw Mangum on the field I called the ball being thrown his way. 80% of the time I was right, and it was almost always a completion. He gets burnt so much it almost makes me miss Roger Williams… ALMOST
Yeah
In 2012, a player like him will not make the team.
I'd love to see Parks back there
I remember watching his highlights when we recruited him and thinking he was going to be an absolute ballhawk
I completely agree
But the coaches have him at FS behind Jamie Robinson. I think we’d be much better with them both on the field (a la NCAA 2010 lol)
I would love to see one of the Fr get in there as a rover but I dont know if they will beat him out.
The thing about him is he must understand the Def well. He has played LB and S. I thought he might have played CB too but I think he sucks att it and is slow.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
The coaches addressed this concern yesterday (in Democrat today)
The search for replacements for Myron Rolle at rover and cornerback Tony Carter has been complicated by contenders — to borrow an old line from Andrews — being banged up.
Korey Mangum, who finished the spring as the No. 1 rover over Terrance Parks, has been hampered by knee problems. Nick Moody is a redshirt freshman with limited work entering the preseason. Parks has been hurt.
Andrews knows his DL will need help from safety to stop the run:
Andrews added: “We don’t have a rover physical enough yet. Rover is a linebacker that has to get involved in man coverage and deep coverage some times.”
It also sounds like Greg Reid is close to starting at CB:
That toughness — both of the physical and mental variety — is something that is also missing at field cornerback. Ochuko Jenije, the top player there heading into the preseason, missed most of Thursday’s practice after tweaking his knee on special teams but he’s been mostly healthy.
“He was starting to step up and act like a first-teamer most of the time,” Andrews said. "We throw the other guys in there and right now I don’t know that a freshman’s (Greg Reid) not right there in the middle, a redshirt freshman (A.J. Alexander) and a redshirt sophomore (Dionte Allen).
“We just need somebody to step up. We’re not close there yet, especially with the physicality. Now we got a little better at coverage at times but the physicality is not there.
I think this is one of the problems vs the Spread
Andrews added: "We don’t have a rover physical enough yet. Rover is a linebacker that has to get involved in man coverage and deep coverage some times."
How can we have a extra LB back there at Rover. We need a ball hawk. Maybe we dont need a LB to convert to SS but what about a CB to convert.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Injuries mounting for UM defense
UM having injury problems particularly on their DL.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-miami-hurricanes-injuries-082009,0,6328480.story
by FtLauderdaleNole on Aug 20, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
Did another walk-on break a player's jaw ending his season?
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Aug 20, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Which was apparently a fight and not "horsing-around" as originally reported...
The Canes haven’t cleaned anything up, Shannon just knows how to spin the practice reports
The horsing around injury was something else I thought
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20081229/?pg=2
by tdchrisdavis on Aug 20, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Play the freshmen
If we had Jacobbi, McCray in the middle we are looking at nearly 600 lbs of players who play their hearts out. Simplify the system to help them, put more pressure on the MLB and the DEs where we have some experience. If what we have now is not cutting it in practice and they have had years in the system, then they are not going to get better come game time. I would rather scheme better, play the freshman and sophomores and take our lumps. That way when 2010 comes, our DL will be seasoned veterans with game experience.
We all know there is no magical solution for our DL so work with the best chance we have for a future, hope the offense scores like Kareem every Saturday and pray for some good things to go our way.
I think Kendrick Stewart has worked hard enough to be productive this season
I definitely give Jacobbi his share of snaps because I think he’s talented enough to play without drop off and can gain valuable experience. Personally the reason depth bothers me so much is Demonte McAllister. The kid weighs 263 lbs. If the coaches have decided that he’s gonna be at DT permanently, the ideal thing would be to redshirt him so he can gain the proper weight to come back as a (RS)Fr. and start IMMEDIATELY. This season he’s too small to play the position as effectively as we’d like and as a result may basically have a waste of a freshman season (and eligibility). Sucks IMO. From a talent stand point he’s definitely got it, but the size is A LOT to overcome.
If McAlister is as good as advertised...
He won’t be here for 4 years. Redshirting won’t benefit him much. Getting him reps as 2nd or 3rd string will help the team. We need the depth.
As it stands, the rotation is:
NG – McCray, McDaniel, Mincey (injured)
DT – Stewart, Thacker, McAlister
by FtLauderdaleNole on Aug 20, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't more beef on the Dline help our LB play?
Since CTC can’t coach how to shed blocks, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to have bigger defensive lineman that can gobble up blockers to help open lanes for the LBs to shoot through?
Unfortunately you cannot teach size.
They talk about not being able to teach speed. Well that is true of size as well. I mean you can work out and get stronger, and sometimes a smaller guy might be as strong as a bigger guy, but usually when you get stronger you naturally get larger. So although Mincey, Thacker and Stewart have gained some weight and gotten stronger, they are still nothing like the monsters LSU and Boston College have put out. I am not saying they have to be as big as Ty Cody at Alabama, but Moses McCray size is good. Large enough to support the weight gain and not lose speed.
More interesting quotes from Mickey
From today’s practice:
"Something’s wrong. You got to attack people on defense. We don’t play a read and react defense. We play attack, and we don’t have 11 people doing that every time the ball is snapped right now. We’re going to keep working on it. We’re half way through. Hopefully our guys will trust our trainers and fight through a little discomfort.
by FtLauderdaleNole on Aug 20, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions
We need to play more read and react. This attack attack attack garbage is exactly what the spread is designed to torch
We can’t limit ourselves to just one style
I just wanted to make sure I was not the only one that was seeing a problem that will probably continue.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Ahh, death, taxes and Mickey blaming everything on intesity and aggression
Things you can count on in life to never go away.
I have always thought Mickey was great but the game has passed him by a few years ago.
He said intensity!!
Take a drink!!!!
My favorite Mickey Andrews quote of all time:
“chew chew chew spit intensity cuss chew spit.”
We've just got to have more intensity
And then we’ll get our swagger back and everything will be OK.
Swagger, Intensity, Execution
I think the intensity and swagger will return when we start playing with poise and execution.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
I was just using those words for MattD's sake because every time he hears these words
he takes a drink, and it is almost happy hour time.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Why oh why oh why....
It’s not March, Mickey. This stuff hurts the brain when we’re this close to the season. Isn’t there something in Mickey’s repertoire, inbetween spitting and that pouty posturing he does on the sideline in which he resembles something like an angry frog with his arms crossed, in which Mickey tells his players to stop talking? Stop talking, Mickey. Like Bowden, the anecdotes are gold when you’re doing your job successfully. Mickey’s trademarks are becoming like your favorite TV show when it enters its eighth season. It’s not funny or cute or cool anymore. As an update, I’m totally fine with him childishly blowing off interviews now. I can’t stand to see Mickey’s legacy tarnished any further just because Bowden thinks he can still save his.
There isn't much THINKING with our old staff...
really not a bright group of people.
Wow, an attack defense? That worked when FSU had more talent than most everyone, and also when offenses were more vanilla, pro style, whatever you want to call them. I would think against Georgia Tech, Florida, etc you would have to read and react. React quickly, yet, but how can you attack until you know who has the ball or what type play it is? I mean I guess if you can get to the QB, or RB behind the line in a few seconds before any play can develop, attacking works in theory, but even if we had the stars of the hey day I do not think they could do that every play.
The canes Ojomo got a busted jaw "just horsing around."
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2009/08/was-it-more-than-horsing-around.html
How bout them canes!
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
thats what im saying
while our players are holding player only meetings and maturing….the canes are over there fighting in locker rooms, this is another reason why i feel we are better prepared to win come labor day.
sucker punching your teammate in the locker room
is a far cry from “on thier way back” in my opinion.
and we’ll show them whos on their way back september 7th when we punch them in the mouth.
i hear their run defense is horrible right now.
Living in So Fla believe you me, no one wants to punch them in the mouth any more than I do, but
I don’t think their D, even with a new DC, is going to be all that lousy.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
it doesnt have to be all that lousy to still get slashed
we’re gonna hit them with our experienced o-line and changing in and out with fresh legs at running back so if they want a battle their gonna get one game one from us.
nevertheless miami will be a good test for our offense to begin the season, i will say that.
At first I was against moving the game up,
but the more I thought about the more I am glad it worked out this way.
Hopefully catch them in a state of disarray.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
This concerns me about our d.
It really is no surprise to me though. I hope it is a indication of how good our offense is going to be rather than how bad our d is . Unless Mickey makes some drastic changes, we will continue to see the same old stuff from the defense though.
When you stand back and look at it
Look what Mickey’s lineman are now going against everyday. Most of Trickett’s lineman are 6-6 and the ones that aren’t are 6-5. If all of them are not 300 pounds right now they soon will be.
Our defense is giving away 30 pounds a man almost at practice. It is no wonder they are being cut up.
The attack defense like someone said is great when you have Ron Simmons and Walter Jones in the middle, shade tree at linebacker and Deion Sanders and Terrell Buckley on the island but we don’t have that right now.
The one game I recall it working was against Maryland though who were undermanned. It looked like the good old days with all the garnet in Maryland’s backfield.
Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools
Nice stuff Doc, but actually there is a minor mistake in your post.
Walter Jones is a Tackle. He has been a mainstay in the Seahawks offensive line starting just about every game for the past 12 years.
Unfortunately, I just read a few days ago that he reinjured the knee that he had surgery on after last season and is expected to miss the start of the season.
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
Run defense
They are getting craved up because its time to face the music that the Nole offense is pretty damn good and they are now experienced and confident. They don’t think when it comes to playing they just play and that allows them to be a half-second quicker. They are also bigger and stronger than last year. I said it before and I’ll say it again there is only one team that can beat the Noles in the ACC and they are located in Tally.
Yes we are smaller than I would like but we’re only smaller by 15 pounds per man as i prefer my DT not to weigh anymore than 290. Stewart is 280, Thacker is 275 and they are both a lot stronger and healthier this year than last. McNeil is back and weighs a good 260-265 while White is perfect at 255-260 on the other side and they are both stronger than last year. They are getting carved up because the OL is GOOD. I don’t think its a reflection of the defense, I think we may have one of the best lines in the country and we didn’t notice until now.
15lbs per man is huge. Absolutely huge.
I prefer my dlinemen to be the size of dlinemen on elite defenses, which we aren’t and weren’t last year.
Thacker is weaker than last year. Stewart is actually 278.
McNiel is actually 271 and out of shape, but I am confident he’ll get with it at some point.
They got carved up last year. They’ll get carved up this year.
by Bud Elliott on Aug 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
If Thacker is weaker then that is a problem because his legs are skinny.
McNeil only missed a week or two of camp so he can’t be THAT out of shape.
Stewart being 280 or 278 is not that big of a difference when he has increased his strength and improved his technique so much.
This is where numbers get you in trouble, you say they got carved up last year and they’ll do so again based on the weights correct? I say that’s a false evaluation because just because you have a weakness that doesn’t mean it can be exploited to the degree that it becomes the major factor in winning versus losing. What teams does FSU play have that top notch running game to take advantage of the weakness in order to win against us despite all the other positives we have on our team? That’s the question. Two answer that, you have to look at two factors:
1) The team that can beat us by running must have a great OL and RB in combination with a good QB that can hurt us down the field on play action once we sell out to stop the run along with ,
2) A top defense that can stop our potent offense in order to get their offense the ball back in order to wear out our defense and keep the ball away from our offfense.
The teams with these two important things going for them are: UF and NCState as Clemson’s QB is too inexpereinced to be considered a good QB and the same for Miami. It’s one thing for a team to have a weakness and a completely different thing to be able to exploit it.
1) You have to look at the teams
BC, GT, NCST, UF, Clemson, USF, all can run on FSU
a great running back isn’t needed. Average backs killed the ’Noles last year.
1st year QB’s do well all the time. Russell Willson, Colt McCoy, etc
by Bud Elliott on Aug 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He does hae a point that we are getting carved up against one of the best lines in the ACC
But Im not quite as optimistic…… I would add to nextlevels list GT and BC…..perhaps Clemson.
I really hope hes right but I am not as opsimistic since its been like every practice that I hear the same thing. Practicing against a very good Oline is a good thing, as long as we can keep away from injuries.
If you build it, they will come.
MORE FOOTBALL INFORMATION, NOW!!!!!! BRAIN IS HUNGRY!!!!!
by stevegrizzle on Aug 21, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I think your back is going to have to special in order to run to the point where it becomes a deciding major factor but let’s say forthe sake of argument I agree with the average back theory, who has the defense and O-line?
Of the teams you mentioned they don’t have the combo that is needed:
GT lacks the DL. If we ran through them last year imagine what we’re going to do this year and we’re better and they are worse in that area!
BC’s defense is in disarray like thier entire program right now.
USF’s talent is overrated. They don’t have the line that BC had on offense or defense and thier secondary isn’t good. Grothe is too eratic.
NCstate – is one along with UF but I already said they have the combo although thiey are hurting on defense.
Clemson will have to pass the ball at some point and they will really miss Davis pounding inside setting up Spiller outside. Spiller is not an inside back.
So we’re still back at the only two teams that can take advantage of the DL weakness we have.
you know what we are trying to run a NT that weights what 280 to go agenst a C and G that
are both around 300. His speed will get him so far. If we could get us to DT that were abotu 300 and sttrong to fill gaps and not get sacks. FSU focus on getting more sacks than filling a gap and making the RB bounce outside and not letting him cutback.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Jacobi Mcdaniel and Moses Mcray
Arent these two 300 pounds and if not very close to it? I would not be suprised if these two end up starting at some point during the season.
They are, but will they play? And they might be physically impressive in drills, but as true frosh and soph, how will they play?
McDaniel should hit a freshman wall at some point this season, and McCray has to stay healthy.
I think a lot of Seminole hopes
are resting squarely on the shoulders of those two. Can the interior be any worse than last year? God I hope not. Maybe Mcdaniel is just a true freak of nature and will not have plateau problems and will have a crazy Freshman All-American year. Maybe McCray steps up and is just an animal. Hope. Lots and lots of hope.
Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.
by onebarrelrum on Aug 21, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Niether was expected to be starting this year but because Mincey might not be back this year one will have to start along side of Stewart, I think McCray will eventually start over Thacker as he is still weak from his shoulder injury.
Mincey really threw a wrench in the plans of the DL but there are few teams except NcState and UF that have the team to fully take advantage of it thank goodness.
the reason we are getting craved up is because Our O-line is in the top 5 in the country.
Our 2nd String is better then most too. Our D-line is not as good. When the Def goes agenst a team that is worst on Offense then we will look better.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
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