Monday Morning Tomahawks- 08.03.2009 Edition
by Bud Elliott on Aug 3, 2009 9:36 AM EDT
in News
81 comments
It was a busy weekend for the 'Noles. Let's have a look at the news coming out of Tallahassee.
- Much recruiting news
- FSU's defense is getting bigger. Is it big enough?
- FSU's tight ends could be a big factor this season.
- Much more, including some heavy analytics stuff.
As you probably know, Marcus Lattimore named his top five schools and FSU did not make the list. The stud runner from Byrnes HS (SC) is being negatively recruited and FSU does not have a real shot, it appears. FSU will move on and pursue other running backs. See the Big Recruiting Board for more: http://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/3/3/778241/2010-recruiting-big-board
You might remember our piece on the relationship between front seven size and defensive performance. FSU was very small last year. They should be somewhat bigger this year.
FSU's McDaniel, McAllister have to be ready | tallahassee.com | Tallahassee Democrat
McDaniel is 6'0" 288lbs McAllister is 6'5" 262lbs
Seminoles perform well on strength and agility | tallahassee.com | Tallahassee Democrat
Kendrick Stewart up to 278lbs, from 265lbs.
FSU's Mincey makes big strides | tallahassee.com | Tallahassee Democrat
Mincey is up to 272lbs (from 256 last year) and is making huge strides in strength and conditioning.
Two things here. First, the 'Noles are still too small and will not reach the magic threshold of 1830lbs. Second, they are bigger this year and that's a step in the right direction.
Increase in playing time for Seminole tight ends? | tallahassee.com | Tallahassee Democrat
FSU will use more two-tight end sets this year because they don't have a fullback. Also, Jabarris Little has increased his work ethic, which he needed to do, going from 222lbs to 237.
A Look at 2008 Season Parity - From The Rumble Seat A look at the ACC's parity vs. the SEC. The ACC really is like the NFL.
Rivals.com College Football - Rivals.com 120 Countdown: No. 14 Ga. Tech Pretty solid.
Smart Football: More on evaluating the run game Read this. It is long and very good. Digest the links he cites.
Looking Ahead: The 2009 ACC Basketball Recruiting Classes (Part 1) - Tomahawk Nation
An In-Depth look at the 2009 ACC Basketball Recruiting Classes. Part 1 of a 2 part series from Tomahawk Nation.
Looking Ahead: The 2009 ACC Basketball Recruiting Classes (Part 2) - Tomahawk Nation Part 2 of Tomahawk Nation's evaluation of the 2009 ACC Basketball recruiting classes. Who were the winners and losers in this year's class?
Merrill Noel Switches to the Deacons - Tomahawk Nation
This isn't a big deal.
Chantrant.com interviews James Warren (Jamnolfin)- who has signed up over 100 boosters and plans to have 150 by the Miami game. Great job by Chantrant to snag his interview and spread the word.
Ryan Perrilloux is not suspended for the FSU game. Chantrant with another great get.
In my continuing effort to highlight great comments, this one comes from the Off-Season Discussion Thread:
I have a request for an article by people who are much more football-smart than I am
I'm sure there are those of you who watch highlights just as much as I do, and noted the different formations we ran much more of this past year.I was wondering if someone could explain the advantages of these different packages and how they'd complement our personnel in certain situations.
Like these bunch formations.
It's a really large order, I'm sorry, but any consideration would be really, really cool. Thanks
by pillsburysoldier
And the response:
Nice question
So this is my personal feeling on the bunch formation and just what I found as a player and watching film. I hate the formation when it is used towards the boundary like in the picture.1. If you look at the defense they have 8 guys 4 without there hand on the ground within 4 yards of the line of scrimmage, that means any one of them could be a blitz candidate making it a nightmare for the oline to pick up. If there is a blitz to the bunch side no chance for the tackle to get out to pick it up because the d end is lined up on his outside shoulder and his job would be to wash him down thus making it a two on one with the running back.
2. Now for the Db's part of it since we are assuming there is a blitz on that would leave the middle backer and the corner back to cover three, well be assured that the safety will be rolling down into coverage also. Since the bunch is to the short side of the field its less area for the guys to cover meaning you don't have to use as many guys in the zone.
3. Since it is a blitz the guys in coverage know that the ball is going to be coming out fast and they don't have to worry about the vertical routes to much since the qb and receiver wont have time to get into them.
Ok thats what I see to the strength of the formation.4. What I see back side and its a MAJOR tell for me is that the corner is lined up in press coverage Normally if your on an island like that as a corner you give a little cushion so you dont get taken vertical, well if you know that a blitz is coming you press up in order to take away the hot route and anything that would be quick and underneath.
Now im going to pretend im the o coordinator. If I see this Defense im running the football to the weak side of the formation. You can run option even with a slow Qb or you can run power with zone blocking steps.
1. Take notice of the weak side tackle either play you run there is a natural double to the middle back for either the guard center or the guard tackle. Lets pretend that we are running power every offensive lineman is taking his first step with his left foot. Here we go the TE will step down and simply slow the End down, The guard and tackle to the strength of the formation will double the Dtackle to the back side backer. The center and the playside guard will double the Dtackle to the middle backer and the playside tackle will take the end wherever he wants to go if he wants to go down ride him and let the runing back cut off of that if he wants to go upfield run him right past the play. What you will end up with is a running back on a safety every running back coach in america says this make the first guy miss.
2. If you are going to run option even with a SLOW SLOW qb its still perfect, We are going to focus on the playside which will be the single receiver side. You are going to option the Dend which allows the tackle and the guard to double up to the mike, the center will be responsible for making the backside backer scrape all the way over the top of him the backside guard and tackles job is simple cut the backside tackle and end down. Again it will come down to either the Qb or the running back one on one with a safety coming down hill.
by 21nole24
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Lattimore
How much of a blow (in talent & recruiting) losing him incurs? This makes smiley crucial to this class. Gainer or Bernard now?
I can't call it losing. We didn't have a great shot at him and never ever "had" him.
I think we still take 2-3 backs, but will not reach for one.
He sounds pretty firm in those 5...any chance his teamates will still pull him?
Hopefully, he doesn’t pull the other 2 away (doubt it since he’s not actually committed anywhere).
Nothing against Lattimore
but I would take a 4* back from Florida over any 5* back, or any player for that matter, from any other state. I really hope we get Bernard. I can’t blame any big time back for not coming to FSU, very few have been overly successful in college or at the pro leve.
I'd have to disagree
Warrick Dunn, Travis Minor, Leon Washington, Greg Jones, and Lorenzo Booker are recent FSU players with time in the NFL. It’s off the top of my head, so I’m sure I’m missing some.
OH YEAAHH!
Me too
I would disagree too … especially if Smiley & Pressley are the real deal
First, I didn’t say I wouldn’t take a kid from another state, I just feel “underrated players” from in State seem to out perform those for out of state. Plus they understand the rivalries better.
Second, Pressley is orginally from Florida, he only went to Cali for juco.
I don’t know… I think each kid is different. Honestly, once you start talking about states like FL, TX, CA and Ohio … Sheer population dictates there’s enough talent to go around
by FSU on Aug 3, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I was refering this
I can’t blame any big time back for not coming to FSU, very few have been overly successful in college or at the pro leve.
OH YEAAHH!
Representing Jacksonville
Leon The Great is from Jacksonville, FL.
by LincolnHighNole on Aug 4, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
really?
looks like 12 hours to me.
in his defense, he may not have seen the respone post due to it being below other responses…
by PBD on Aug 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No defense needed
I live in China!!!!!!
by LincolnHighNole on Aug 6, 2009 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
We're OK
Granted Lattimore is a talent … But let’ not forget, we have talented backs already and lets not forget only so many back can see the field at one time. Not to mention, I’m reeeeeeeallly interested to see Pressley, who’ll have 2 yrs.
Would we have liked to get Lattimore? Yep. But, Im confident between thomas, jones in year 3 and thompson, pryor, pressley in year 2 … heck you can stick Greg Reid back there (a la the Warrick Dunn move) for all I care, plus whoever else we sign.
I think we’ll be OK, simply because the level of prospecting, evaluating & recruiting has improved period with Jimbo & company running the show now.
Agreed
I’m not too upset that we “lost” him even though we never had him, but I am a little peeved about his reasoning. I believe he stated that we were left out because of concerns on our probation. I know the coaches have addressed the situation numerous times, so it makes me wonder if there was another reason not being said. I just can’t believe that our probation is the problem when it really doesn’t effect us too much.
Yardage
Right. To be honest. I just think he wasn’t legitimately interested other than he knew teammates going here and the coaching staff working really hard at it.
Bottom line – We get the kids we have (Pryor, Thompson, Thomas, Jones), the other one healthy (Pressley) & the one committed (Smiley) here next year, plus QBs who can run if necessary (Ponder, EJ) and the occasional end arounds from slot ppl … behind an improving line …. We’ll be fine getting yardage on the ground and moving the chains.
by FSU on Aug 3, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a really fun read
Any chance on making it a once-a-week thing? Of course, not to put too much strain on people like 21nole24 (big thanks, BTW.)
Grab a pic of one of our formations, explain its strengths, weaknesses, give-a-ways, etc., how its fine-tuned for our personnel, etc.? A mini-football how-to clinic.
by pillsburysoldier on Aug 3, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
Spill it.
I must know.
Is it the every-ponder-pass video? Or more…?
by pillsburysoldier on Aug 3, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Could it be....
Meyer being fed through a wood chipper?
by pillsburysoldier on Aug 3, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can help
Anytime you have a picture like that and want to hear what I think just post it and at some point on that day or the next Ill respond. Im in the process now of taking my college playbook and getting it set up online so I can show in great detail what the Offense is looking at. I think alot of people are going to be preety amazed to realize how much the recievers and Oline have to do with each other with run blocking inside the tackle box.
What are the details behind Lattimores decision?
Drake at tharinger said something about Latty not fitting our system, while stateofmind said negative recruiting and ESPN reported that FSUs recent troubles with the NCAA were why he dropped us. How did we go from a great shot, according to everything I have read, to no shot so quickly?
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
My take
He has publicly stated numerous times that he was uncomfotable with the probation. This was his reason stated for pulling us out. Leads me to believe there was negative recruiting heavily involved if we couldn’t make him understand that.
He also said FSU put his NFL future in jeapordy, which leads many people to believe he wasn’t comfortable with the scheme. He wants to be a feature back badly. Jimbo likes to use a lot of different backs. We also look good to bring in other very good backs and some have said his want to be a feature back has lead him to not want to have to compete with another great back in his cycle.
I think it is a combination of both.
Featured back
Yeah, were moving away from the “featured back” thing. Thank goodness. I’d rather both parties, go their separate ways now — We weren’t a good fit. Better to discover it now than to have a malcontent on the team.
Feature
Can you remember the last true feature backs in college? Maybe Ricky Williams or Adrian Peterson? All that wear on the tread has caused injuries later on in their careers
by FSU on Aug 3, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder who's spewing the lies?
Speed is a great asset; but it's greater when it's combined with quickness - and there's a big difference.
- Ty Cobb
JoePa!!! JK
i wouldn’t be surprised if it was Spurrier, though, with all the news surrounding him lately.
so about our size is there a way to see it the teams we play fall
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
sorry posted
It there a way to find out if there o-lines have sled back.
Also Is McA going to be a DT or DE.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
Got to be Stevil
I think the major reason is simply his family wants him to stay in state so they can watch him play. He also has some buddies going to South Carolina we all know Stevil can’t open his mouth without trashing FSU.
He does want to be the man and play early. He can do that at USC east. When does Spurrier ever have any good backs?
Honestly when you looks at the FSU backs is Lattimore going to get playing time over Thomas, Presley, Jones or Smiley. There is nothing to guarantee he is better than any of these backs in my opinion. From what I hear Lattimore is also more of a north south power runner and might not have the cuts for a zone blocking scheme.
Gainer can fill the power back bill just as well I think.
In short he is probably making a good decision for himself if he wants to walk on campus and play right away.
I would like to see him at FSU but it is not something that will set the class back too much if not.
Meyer signs 6 year extension
4.2 Mil per. the Notre Dame stuff is done.
Lattimore fit our scheme perfectly, unfortunately. He’s excellent.
Yeah, because coaches never break their contract
For the record I don’t think he’ll ever go to ND unless he’s forced out at UF but that’s because it’s a worse location for him.
Meyer to ND stuff is NOT done
His buyout was never increased. It is still sitting at $500K
ND could find that money under the cushions of their couch.
He'll pull a Petrino
Sign a long term extension, leave for the NFL, don’t last a season, quit and then go back to an NCAA team (ND)
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on Aug 4, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't see him going to the NFL
People like to throw this out because of Meyer’s success. But I don’t remember his name ever coming up when a NFL job comes open. NFL GMs aren’t stupid and they know that the field in the NFL is basically smaller than college due to the larger and faster athletes. NFL QBs don’t make it through the year just standing in the pocket, the spread option would get one killed. Meyer is the Tom Osborne of his generation. A great college coach with a system that will not translate to the next level. I don’t think even Dan Snyder is dumb enough to hire him.
by osceolafan850 on Aug 4, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Right away
There’s something to be said about skill positions other than QBs, who worry about .. “Well I want to be able to play right away” I sort of want them to have the ego that says…. I can beat out my competition regardless of who’s there.
by FSU on Aug 3, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
quick math on Front 7.
I’m doing all this from a Chick-fil-A (tasty), so going on my brain alone. Correct me where I’m off. Just a rough draft of our Front 7’s weight:
Bradham, Kendall, Watson:
235 * 3 = 705
Moses & Mincey:
305 + 275 = 580
Markus & McNeil:
255 * 2 = 510
Total Weight = 1795
I’m most unsure about the DE’s. How does 1795ish stack up to the last couple years?
by The K-Man on Aug 3, 2009 2:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I got 1801
But I think your numbers on the DE’s are much closer than 260.
In any case, we were 1735 last year which was inexcusable. Mickey has no clue how to stop teams who run their QB.
5 Guys had its grand opening in Tally today.
1830 might not be impossible after all…..
by The K-Man on Aug 3, 2009 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thats what im talking about.
" And He drank the world's sin so He could carry you in, and give you life"
The guys will probably lose some when during 2-a-days.
I started thinking that they could put on 30 lbs as a unit before the season, but unfortunately I think they are more likely to lose it. I guess we’ll just have to play with more intensity, ferocity, agressiveness, and passion.
OH YEAAHH!
I kept hearing that
They don’t want him to get much bigger and risk limiting his flexibility even more. I feel like he could play at 242-245 and be just fine, but I suppose they have they’re reasons
harley
sounds like the ultimate athlete, i keep hearin more and more of his stuff and just get blown away, we knew about the 4.31 forty, but damn over 300 pound clean, almost a 40 inch vert…..i want him on the feild asap!
and overall those strength results sound impressive, mulitple offensive linemen benching over 400 pounds, christain benchin over 400 and cleanin over 300….im excited.
Harley
also benched 375. The fact that our team reportedly has 40 players that power cleaned 300+ means lower body strength is at a premium.
Weatherford also benched over 400lbs. Benching doesn't imrove accuracy or decision making.
It does however show dedication and athleticism, so those are good things.
OH YEAAHH!
Seems like if they wanted to do a story on the TE's, they should have talked to Caz or Beau.
What are the chances we will see all 3 TE’s on the field at the same time? Possibly with a 2 TE formation with the third TE as the fullback, like maybe in a goal line or short yardage play?
>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em
What shocked me
Is the quote from Stroud saying that Little’s work ethic has been impeccable. Not something you’d expect to hear.
goal line but I dont see the point when we can spread it out just as good and run a bubble or option.
Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry
On the goal line?
Why would we try to run something that complicated? We could just punch it in or run a bootleg. No point in running an option or something near the goal line
i think what desman said
was that you could use 3 TE’s on the goal line to “punch it in”
GO NOLES BABY! Ponder benching 400+LBS… sounds like hes gonna run it down their throats this year… who cares if he can throw it with the best of them…he wont need to- Jimbo’s got him covered on the dink and dunk, bubble option… his decision making WILL improve, just like his strength and athleticism has already…
B rad
Ponder has a very good arm
I think most would agree it is his accuracy that could pick up a bit on the downfield passing game.
I've questioned his arm strength, but
it usually comes after watching a Gridiron Greats game with Ward or Weinke.
Ponder: Rainbow Pass Ward: Line Drive
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