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Around SBN: Dan Marino Starting College For Developmentally Disabled

Morning Tomahawks 09.10.09: Christian Ponder is more team than Mickey Andrews

After the loss to Miami, Christian Ponder blamed himself for a pass that Jarmon Fortson should have caught.  Jimbo Fisher defended Christian Ponder and blamed himself, saying he could have called a better game (despite receiving a lot of recognition for calling a fine game).  But Mickey Andews, FSU's defensive coordinator whose unit gave up 476 yards, 25 1st downs, and 38 points, blamed his players lack of execution, tackling, and missing assignments.  it seems that in Andrews' mind, he was flawless.  And the gap between the offensive and defensive coaching staffs continues to widen.  One group will be here long term.  The other won't last even 6 more months.  One tirelessly works to improve themselves and the program.  The other selfishly tries to save their reputation and polish their resume's for their next coaching position (which for some, seems very unlikely to come).  Whether or not the defensive players played poorly, Andrews' comments and actions show a lack of accountability and that lack of accountability permeates the defense.  You won't hear excuses from the offense, because the offense is coached by someone who cares about the future of the program, not someone who had to be begged back so that Bobby Bowden wouldn't feel alone on his own staff.  There's a legitimate concern that the offense will start to resent the defense and as a result, start to press too much, rather than just playing their own game.  That's a concern that the offensive staff must guard against, but it's sad that we are even having to mention this.  

Speaking of accountability, Jarmon Fortson didn't say much after the game, but FSU's Fortson practices diving catch  Tallahassee Democrat:  As the offensive players were walking off the field Wednesday — after their first practice since Monday night’s heartbreaking loss — there was one player who was noticeably getting a little extra work in. Sophomore Jarmon Forston was practicing the exact route he ran on the game’s final play against the Hurricanes, and the student assistant throwing the passes was keeping the ball low so Fortson had to kneel down, or dive, to catch it. Just like Monday night as well.

Lots more inside.  Film review will be posted Friday morning or late tonight.

Star-divide

Corey Clark of the Democrat has some really good thoughts on the game. Check it out.
Christian Ponder is a special football player. He just is. I know it’s been a while since Florida State fans had complete confidence in one of their quarterbacks, but I think this kid is going to make a believer out of everyone – if he hasn’t already. It’s a shame, actually. With Jarmon Forston’s drop against Miami and Marcus Sims’ fumble into the end zone against Georgia Tech, Ponder had been denied two memorable, last-second, game-winning drives. But the guy just makes plays. The last throw was RIGHT where it had to be.   Speaking of … another reason to admire Ponder. After the game when he was asked about that play, he took full responsibility. Said it was a "poor throw." I didn’t buy it. I thought he threw it exactly where he wanted to, where he needed to, and his receiver just dropped it. Jimbo Fisher agreed with me, by the way when I brought that up. Said he was supposed to keep the pass low so Fortson could cradle it and a defender’s hands couldn’t bat it away. But what kind of leadership does that show from Ponder? To take the blame, on a play like that, when it wasn’t his fault? Like I said, he’s a special player. And he was in complete control all night against the Canes.

Good article on Jacobbi McDaniel looking to play a bigger role for the Noles. You can count on that.

FSU's Pryor moving to fullback Tallahassee Democrat
Lonnie Pryor is likely to see some playing time on Saturday against the Jacksonville State Gamecocks. Pryor tries really hard, has a lot of talent, and really is just a good football player. He's not yet ready to be a tailback in lour scheme, so we find him other ways to get the ball.

And last but definitely not least, Jeff Cameron of 1270 The Team gets Jimbo Fisher for a weekly Series.  Here is the first installment!

Discussed are Christian Ponder, Randy Shannon, adjustments, and preparation!  Fisher sounds smart and he understands what other teams are doing.

Here's a good photo of the better pass protection.  Christian Steps up and delivers a strike:

Improved_protection_medium

 

Chantrant.com with a nice article on the Jacksonville State QB situation.  

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Zebrie Sanders

got beat in that pic. In fact, it was his guy that caused the fumble on Ponder on one play. Spurlock got beat a couple of times, but I thought minus a hold on McMahon early on, C, LG, and LT had excellent games in terms of pass pro.

by ricobert1 on Sep 10, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't know, he drove him so far away that thre was no way that guy could get him.

It was just tough to snap the pic on time.

I thought spurlock played really hard but missed some assignments.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 10, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Spurlock came from a run-oriented school

He’s a road grader in the run game, but his pass pro is still under development.

But about Zebrie in the pic, he is pretty far away, but in terms of technique, he’ll get his ass chewed out for “opening the gate.” Tackles have to be able to shuffle step and keep their shoulders square, perpendicular to the QB. Look at Datko, he’s doing pretty good at that, although even he’s about 1/2 sec from getting beat. Footwork buys/costs you important 1/2 seconds.

by ricobert1 on Sep 10, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reid is going to get more reps! YESSSSS!!!!

I know this doesn’t solve all of our problems but its good news nonetheless.

Both Bowden and defensive coordinator Mickey Andrews said they wanted to see more of true freshman Greg Reid in Saturday’s game. And that’s the plan, according to Andrews, if Reid proves he belongs in the Seminoles’ base defense.

Read it with your own eyes here:
Plan is to get Reid more involved in Seminole defense

"Necessity is the mother of taking chances."
- Mark Twain

by DarkestOS on Sep 10, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

This line is important
if Reid proves he belongs in the Seminoles’ base defense.

Reid did really well freelancing, but in the base defense he will have a specific job to do and must do that. Monday night, he didn’t show that he could stay with his man and carry out his specific job on the defense on a consistent basis.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 10, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wholeheartedly agree

i’m just really amped up about the upside of this guy. I hope he works his tail off on getting his technique and mechanics up to par.

"Necessity is the mother of taking chances."
- Mark Twain

by DarkestOS on Sep 10, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would not be upset if they give him

plenty more reps on 3rd and long plays (nickel or whatever). Just watch him run down some more balls. So awesome. I agree with working him in slow to the base defense. I don’t want him out there getting beat and losing his confidence because he isn’t ready.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 10, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is there another FSU defender that showed he could stay with his man?

Other than Bradham (who could probably play DE, LB or DB with his ridiculous speed) I wasn’t impressed with anyone being able to stay with their man.

by FSUjab on Sep 10, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrews alluded to Reid playing more in the post-game press conference

"The best football player on the field might have been a freshman.We’ve just got to get him further along so he can play on our base defense. … He’s just a playmaker. We’ve got some guys that go out there and play a whole ballgame and never make any plays. They just give up plays. We’ll play a freshman on Saturday if we have to; to get the production we need there." – MA

The good news about the defense getting embarrassed is that Mickey probably isn’t going to be playing the seniority game. He doesn’t want to look bad in his last season.

by FSUjab on Sep 10, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

The philosophy of playing seniors was fine

back in the glory days of having a 3 deep roster of number ones. But while we’re rebuilding we have to take a cue from teams like USC and UF who emphasize getting the most talented guys on the field.

In the end it’s really depressing to think Bobby has fallen so far behind the curve. It just confirms how much the game has passed him by. DAMN.

"Necessity is the mother of taking chances."
- Mark Twain

by DarkestOS on Sep 10, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's pretty incredible to hear that

I remember some players that played behind underclassmen in the 80s, when Bobby was more involved and Bobby stilled did the play calling.

For example, around ‘82 or so there was a senior WR who was third team – and he wasn’t bad. He went on to start for the Chicago Bears in their ‘85 Super Bowl run – Dennis McKinnon. He wasn’t behind another senior.

Jesse Solomon was second team as a senior, and made pro bowls as a starting LB. He was behind either a junior and sophomore as a senior.

I’m sure there’s more

by Wild@Heart Nole on Sep 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think

christian will go down as one of the best qb’s ever at fsu 0_o
just from the improvement we’ve heard about all summer, and to actually see it on right from game 1?
and he still has this whole year and senior year potentially ahead of him, i have high hopes personally.
hes so dual threat, very strong passer with deadly weapons around him, and hes a great runner, because not only does he have very good speed, he has vision and toughness.

"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley

by jfree on Sep 10, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

i havent felt this comfortable at qb

in i dont know how long

"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley

by jfree on Sep 10, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he keeps going..

My vote would be for 3rd best behind Ward and Wienke. I know some of the guys older than me might be shocked but I personally can’t think of a FSU QB who would be working with less than Ponder. If any WR makes an All-ACC team I think it will be due more to Ponder than the WR having amazing physical talent.

by osceolafan850 on Sep 10, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watching Ponder when the pass was incomplete Monday night was what really settled me in on him. If you watched the closeups of him when Reed cut off his route and Ponder threw the fly, Ponder immediately looked over to Fisher and knew he had thrown the proper ball. There were plenty of other incompletions that Ponder looked over at the coaches with a smile on his face either knowing what he did wrong or knowing that it was a split second away from being a completion.
The guy is just comfortable on the field and knows what he’s doing. Pure leader

by NoleRaised on Sep 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

let's be careful

not to annoint Ponder as the new messiah of FSU football just yet.

by Chris Gadsden on Sep 10, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is exactly what Fisher said before the season started.

“Ponder will be among the best quarterbacks to ever play at FSU.” end of quote

Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 10, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

and i saw somone on here say that hate his new lil smile haha

personally no homo i love it, lil smug/swagger (i know i know the s word haha)/cocky smile, i like it haha.

"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley

by jfree on Sep 10, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I always new I liked Jimbo

But the last 20 seconds of his interview when he was talking toughness just did it for me. He talked about why we stress being tough because of the softness of society and the way the world works. I loved hearing that because my friends and I always talk about the “wussofaction of america” I know its not a real word but you get my point. We are in great hands our teams will always be tough once he takes over and that will when us ball games. The mental and physical toughness to never back down and never give in. I just got so excited listening to that.

by 21nole24 on Sep 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

I always find myself laughing at how soft some people can be.

by tdchrisdavis on Sep 10, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I ate up that Jimbo Interview too!

In fact I completely loved it! His no-nonsense approach is refreshing. Sounds like he’s teaching these kids important life lessons (i.e. – work ethic, dedication, and accountability) and how they apply to football. It really makes me feel good about the future of the program.

"Necessity is the mother of taking chances."
- Mark Twain

by DarkestOS on Sep 10, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question for FSU uncensored or anyone else who knows

I’ve heard it mentioned here, Jeff Cameron, and other places that this is Mickey’s last year. Just wondering how confident you are in that prediction? I still think Bobby will leave after NEXT season, and I was always under the impression that Mickey and Bobby would leave together.

by QNole on Sep 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Very confident

He wanted to leave two years ago after his son Ronnie passed, and he wants to raise Ronnie’s kids.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lemme guess...

It was Bobby who talked him out of it, right?

Still earnin’ that $2.5 million each and every year.

by PeachTreeNole on Sep 10, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

How in the hell MA can see tese kid’s through fall camp, recruitment, etc. and STILL start Mangum/Jenije over Harley/Reid is beyond me. IMO NO incoming 2009 FR on D should RS this year. None. Let them all have a go and let’s go on ahead and watch freshmen make freshman mistakes this year setting us up w/ an experienced D under new leadership for 2010. I feel we wil see at least 2-3 teams hang 45+ on us this year and friggin’ UF may touch 60. Just in-ex-damn-scusable.

And for the love of all thing’s sane DO NOT RENEW BB’s contract. There is not 1 compelling reason to waste another year w/ him as HC. I’’m still friggin’ pissed about monday night.

Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.

by levynole on Sep 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think the option belongs to FSU

I think the renewal option is built into his contract such as FSU is obligated to offer this next January, but Bowden is the one with the option of turning it down.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Sep 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to know more about that contract

If FSU has the option I hope the new president tells Bobby to be gone after this season. It is very fortunate they didn’t give him the 3.5 million he was shaking them down for.

Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 10, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

What is wrong with blaming the players?

Football players have been coached with negative reinforcement forever. I think they can handle a little public criticism. Maybe they will even end up better for it. Coaches should blame the players. Blaming yourself(especially if it is wrongly, Jimbo) is telling them that it is not their fault and doesn’t exactly inspire them to work harder to improve themselves. Why should they? They aren’t the problem.

by Mongo314 on Sep 11, 2009 1:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Not in the media.

You just don’t do it, particularly when you recruited said players.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 11, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

If they can’t handle it, then they shouldn’t be playing football. As long as he didn’t single players out, then I don’t think there is a problem. He said that there was a lack of execution, poor tackling and missed assignments, which is just the truth. He shouldn’t lie to make his players feel better. They aren’t children.

by Mongo314 on Sep 11, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's playing the blame game through the media and it makes players resent you and lose confidence.

Andrews did a terrible job teaching them and setting them up for success, their play is a reflection on him. You won’t see Nick Saban or Urban Meyer do that. You see coaches getting defensive and blaming their players when they are out of touch and on their way out.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 11, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are ignoring the fact that

he should be blaming himself. FSUn has pretty much hit it on the head by mentioning the “you keep it in house” mentality, but for the sake of argument, lets say he should blame those that are deserving of criticism; who is he going to blame…the players he was responsible for preparing. It was his gameplan, he knew what these guys were capable of in practice, assuming he watches practice. Similar to the scrimmages when he only blitzes, ignoring the goal of these scrimmages. I think a man accepts responsibility for his actions, and that goes beyond sports.

by Miaminole on Sep 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lorenzo Booker actually addressed this a couple times

Once in a radio interview, but, more tellingly, in the bobby bowden documentary. It was more or less about accountability. How helpless would you feel if you were told to follow orders that would lead to failure, and you knew it would lead to failure, but if you didn’t do it, then you’d get pulled? Not only that, but when the orders inevitably fail, it’s YOUR fault?

It’s not fair, and anybody, not just players, would lose trust very quickly with their leaders.

by pillsburysoldier on Sep 11, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was less of an interview

and more of the camera crew following L. Boogie and Drew to dinner and Lorenzo being really upset about it

by pillsburysoldier on Sep 11, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it's been Mickey's mantra year after year after year...

“we didn’t tackle”… “we missed assigments”… “we didn’t have intensity”—- for several decades now. I recall, for example, his remarks after we got pasted by uf in ‘97. We were totally confused and out of position. He said "I’ve never had a defense quit on me like that." They did, becasue they and their coach were lost.

That fact is he had a one-dimensional D designed to do one thing. Sometimes it worked splendidly; against teams with near equal talent and/or good coaching it did not. It had a tendency to be exploited by balanced teams (miami) and by coaches who were smart enough to challenge his man and man secondary scheme with a good receiver, and they could do it over and over again, without adjustment from MIckey, even when the game came down to one critical play. Tory Holt, Jacquez Green, Lamar thomas. Peerless Price, and of course Cooper come quickly to mind.

I’m speaking in the past tense, because I’m thinking only about the future this year, and may not bother to watch much.

by PeachTreeNole on Sep 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

happy

I am just happy about the fact that ponder did not cry and promise to play harder!

by disturbednole on Sep 12, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Fact of the matter is FSU has pissed away alot of valuable time hanging onto the BB legacy. Had MA and other’s been let go 2 yrs ago we likely wouldn’tbe in this mess, there is no excuse to play this out any further than the end of this season. None.

I’m still pissed.

Ameica, Land of the free and home to the entitled.

by levynole on Sep 12, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

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