Florida State Seminoles Look to Avoid Beating Themselves Against BYU

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 3:32 AM EDT in FSU Football Comment 54 comments

This weekend, FSU travels to face #7 BYU. The Cougars are red-hot, fresh off a 14-13 upset victory over the then #3 Oklahoma Sooners, a game in which BYU was a three touchdown underdog. They also recently worked Tulane 54-3 in the Superdome. You'll remember that last season, Oklahoma had arguably the best offense in college football. And BYU had a terrible defense (caution, that's like 4000 words, print it out.). It was much worse than the worst Division-1 defense FSU faced last season. So how did BYU hold the mighty Sooners to a mere 13 points? Most would say that they knocked out Heisman Trophy winner Sam Bradford. That definitely helped, but as I fired up the ol' DVR, I started to notice some other things. Mainly, I think OU's offense did much more to beat itself than BYU did to stop it. the primary cause of this was Oklahoma's inexperienced offensive line (only 23 returning starts, 19 of them by the left tackle), which had to replace four starters and had to replace one of the replacements due to injury. Last year's OU line was the best in the country, but this year, well, let's break it down drive by drive.

BYU at Oklahoma Drive # 1 (via pbysh)

1-10 OU25 PENALTY OU false start (Simmons, Brian) 5 yards to the OU20. Right off the bat, OU puts themselves in the hole. Our friend Bill Connelley has done tremendous work on the subject of leverage(forcing your opponent into passing situations, and avoiding the same while on offense). This was the first play of the game, but it was great foreshadowing. OU's Offense failed to play with positive leverage.
1-15 OU20 Brown, Chris rush for 3 yards to the OU23 (DENNEY, Brett). Already, OU is in a disadvantageous down and distance. The other thing to note here is the play of the defender over the slot cornerback at 0:38. If BYYU tries that against FSU, the 'Noles will throw the bubble screen every time for 8+ yards and maybe more. It's the Constraint Theory of Offense.
2-12 O2U3 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Tennell, Adron for 7 yards to the OU30 (LOGAN, Brian). Without that false start penalty, OU is in 2nd and 7. Instead, this half-roll is completed not for a first down but to setup 3rd and 5. OU is just barely back on schedule. Side-note: FSU ran these roll-outs a lot last year when the OLine couldn't pass protect. While the line is much improved this year, we might see some roll-outs Saturday.
3-5 OU30 PENALTY OU false start (Brandon, Cory) 5 yards to the OU25. So OU has the look they want, and has a good shot to pick up a 3rd and 5, but they again shoot themselves in the foot.
3-10 OU25 PENALTY OU false start (Brandon, Cory) 5 yards to the OU20. Seriously, 3 false start penalties in OU's first 5 snaps. So OU goes from 3rd and 5 to 3rd and 15. Side note: FSU's tackles are a lot more agile than OU's and shouldn't be really worried about the edge rushers like the over-anxious Cory Brandon seemed to be.
3-15 OU20 Bradford, Sam pass incomplete to Tennell, Adron. BYU plays very good zone defense, and you can't get into 3rd and forever situations against the Cougars. They are very vulnerable when you get them concerned with the run and then hit them with play-action. Their lack of speed is immaterial in situations like 3rd and 15. Because the ball has to travel so far, and they are so good at working as a singular unit, even elite offenses won't burn them in 3rd and 15+ situations. Every defense plays better on 3rd and long, but i think the difference in play between BYU's regular distance down defense, and long-passing-down defenses are enormous.

The highest scoring offense in the country from a year ago couldn't gain a first down in their opening series. Not because BYU beat them off the ball. Not because BYU blanketed their wideouts (though there was good coverage on 3rd and 15, as is expected). No, the reason is that OU beat themselves and couldn't establish a rhythm. For an offense so predicated on running lots of plays at a frantic, no-huddle pace, OU's rhythm killing penalties were suicide.

But OU continued to setup the BYU defense nicely with other self-inflicted gaffes. Inside, we explore more and see that BYU didn't really stop OU, the Sooner's beat themselves.

BYU's 2nd Drive

BYU at Oklahoma Drive #2 (via pbysh)

1-10 OU29 Murray, DeMarco rush for 9 yards to the OU38 (JOHNSON, Scott), PENALTY OU personal foul (Jones, Jarvis) 15 yards to the OU23. This would be a theme for the night. Look at the size of that hole! OU's line just blew BYU off the ball and looked determined to just ram the ball down BYU's throat. First down, get 9 yards. But OU's idiot Left Guard doesn't realize that he can't get away with a late hit in the middle of the field since he is the biggest player on the field. So instead of 2nd and 1, it will be 2nd and 16. Also, remember that OU thrives on being very up-tempo, and penalties stop the clock and make everyone sit around and wait. OU again had a nice thing going, then stupidly ruined their own gig and put themselves behind the 8-ball. Also, the play they ran here is a zone run play not dissimilar to what FSU runs, and FSU should be able to run on BYU- hopefully w/o the personal fouls.
2-16 OU23 Murray, DeMarco rush for 1 yard to the OU24 (DENNEY, Brett). BYU stops this, though there might have been a crease. Again though, no tempo for OU. They are behind schedule on the down and distance markers, and are rushing to try and compensate.
3-15 OU24 Bradford, Sam pass incomplete to Tennell, Adron. Remember, BYU's defense is really good on 3rd and long, but they probably aren't great on regular yardage downs because they struggle to defend the whole field. Much better when they only have to worry about stuff 15+ yards downfield.

So far, we've seen 4 OU penalties derail two OU drives and force OU to go 0-2 on 3rd and 15+. But OU gets a break and BYU fumbles the ensuing punt, setting up OU nicely.

Oklahoma Drive #3

BYU at Oklahoma Drive 3 (via pbysh)

1-10 BYU35 Brown, Chris rush for 5 yards to the BY30 (BAUMAN, Matt). Oklahoma runs and finds success. This was a theme early in the game. BYU looks to have trouble stopping the run. Later in the game OU got away from the run, which was dumb.
2-5 BYU30 Brown, Chris rush for 10 yards to the BY20, 1ST DOWN OU (BAUMAN, Matt). BYU runs inside zone to the right, the same play FSU runs, and gets 10 yards as OU is blowing BYU off the ball. 1st down.
1-10 BYU20 Calhoun, Jermie rush for 3 yards to the BY17. BYU's safety fills really quickly here, which could hurt them later in the play-action game.
2-7 BYU17 PENALTY OU holding (Clapp, Matt) 10 yards to the BY27. OU runs outside zone to the left, but their linemen are sloppy and get called for holding. Penalty # 5 on OU! They really didn't need to hold there, they were blowing BYU off the ball. OU is now behind schedule again.
2-17 BYU27 Broyles, Ryan rush for 5 yards to the BY22 (RICH, Andrew). Wildcat. remember this, BYU has been seriously burned by this stuff in recent years, most notably last season by TCU. FSU hasn't shown that yet, but they could. In any case, OU does a better job to try and get back some of their holding yards.
3-12 BYU22 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Caleb, Brandon for 14 yards to the BY8, N, Scott). 1ST DOWN OU (JOHNSON, Scott). BYU runs a zone blitz, OU picks it up, throws underneath, and the wideout makes a good move. Still, this isn't a 1st down if the DB doesn't slip down. BYU once again played really well in a 3rd and long situation, which BYU didn't really create, but rather OU backed itself into.
1-G BYU08 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Broyles, Ryan for 8 yards to the BY0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 04:56. Play-action, BYU doesn't handle that very well. Also, when the QB gets on the edge, their zone seems to have problems at times (Utah last season).

So far, we've seen OU stop themselves twice, and score once. But have we really seen BYU stopping OU? They aren't racking up tackles for loss, batting passes down, or registering sacks. You be the judge.

Oklahoma Drive # 4

OU just intercepted Max Hall and starts this drive on BYU's 30.

BYU at Oklahoma Drive # 4 (via pbysh)

1-10 BYU30 Murray, DeMarco rush for 7 yards to the BY23 (HOOKS, Terrance). Again, BYU really struggled against this Wildcat stuff (and in a related note, running QB's.) just as they did last year. The Cougars get gashed for a 7 yard gain on 1st down again.
2-3 BYU23 Murray, DeMarco rush for 7 yards to the BY16, 1ST DOWN OU (CLAWSON, Coleby). 7 yards on the familiar stretch play. Again, BYU definitely isn't stopping OU.
1-10 BYU16 Murray, DeMarco rush for 9 yards to the BY7, fumble forced by RICH, Andrew, fumble by Murray, DeMarco recovered by BY DOMAN, Shawn at BY5. And there you have it. 3 straight runs of 7+ and a very promising drive ends in a fumble. We know fumble recoveries are random. Give BYU credit for forcing the fumble, but if my defense forces a fumble 9 yards downfield on the 3rd consecutive running play of 7 or more yards, I'm still really concerned about my run defense.

Important Comment:

"If you force BYU to bring a safety down close to the box for run support, that means they have single coverage on the outside and they can't match up."

Tuck that little gem away.

On OU's 5th drive, they had a personal foul, which was declined. On their 6th drive, they tried to pound the run and BYU stopped them. Why they didn't go to the play-action pass, I have no idea. I think OU's playcalling in this game was disjointed (probably because they couldn't get into a rhythm with all the stoppages), and not very timely.

Oklahoma Drive # 7

OU is rolling. Mixing in the play-action as BYU is selling out to stop the run. Check it out.

1-10 OU20 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Broyles, Ryan for 17 yards to the OU37, 1ST DOWN OU (RICH, Andrew). Not shown.
1-10 O37 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Tennell, Adron for 13 yards to the 50 yardline, 1ST DOWN OU (BRADLEY, Brando), PENALTY BY personal foul (CLAWSON, Coleby) 15 yards to the BY35, 1ST DOWN OU. Not shown.

Up 7-0 and driving, OU again shoots themselves in the foot:

BYU at Oklahoma Drive #7 (via pbysh)- 1-10 B35 Bradford, Sam pass complete to Broyles, Ryan for loss of 1 yard to the BYU36, fumble forced by RICH, Andrew, fumble by Broyles, Ryan recovered by BY DENNEY, Brett at BY37.

OU's carelessness with the football again hurts them. The receiver was pretty clearly tackled, and #47 is late getting out to his block, but again BYU is benefiting from a crucial fumble recovery, which we know from years and years of performance, are random.

OU's 8th drive would see them overcome a holding penalty and snag a field goal and get Sam Bradford injured on a well designed blitz by BYU. From that point on, Oklahoma would use redshirt freshman Landry Jones at QB.

Oklahoma's 9th Drive

BYU at Oklahoma Drive #9 (via pbysh)

1-10 OU41 Brown, Chris rush for 1 yard to the OU42 (TIALAVEA, Russe), PENALTY OU illegal block (Broyles, Ryan) 15 yards to the OU27. Again, OU being sloppy with the offensive penalties. If OU couldn't overcome their own self-imposed down and distance deficits with the Heisman Trophy Winner, do you think they can do it with a Redshirt Freshman?
1-24 OU27 1st and 24, Brown, Chris rush for 3 yards to the OU30 (HOOKS, Terrance;DENNEY, Brett). BYU's defense doesn't respect the redshirt freshman and instead starts keying on the running game that had gashed them up until this point.
2-21 OU30 Jones, Landry pass complete to Caleb, Brandon for 13 yards to the OU43 (BRADLEY, Brando). Jones makes a really nice throw here, and it would be perfect were it 2nd and 10 or 8, but again, OU's stupid and lazy penalties have put themselves behind the 8-ball.
3-8 OU43 Jones, Landry pass incomplete to Tennell, Adron (LOGAN, Brian). BYU brings the same blitz that knocked Bradford out of the game, and because they have another 3rd and 5+ situation, OU has to try to beat it deep.

This game was the absolute dream scenario for OU. Have a super high-powered offense try to do too much with too green an offensive line (their center just switched over from tight end, and missed several protection calls in this game, something at which FSU's center Ryan McMahon is very good.). On to drive # 10:

Oklahoma's 10th Drive

BYU at Oklahoma Drive #10 (via pbysh)

1-10 OU48 Murray, DeMarco rush for 13 yards to the BY39 (JOHNSON, Scott), PENALTY OU holding (Brandon, Cory) 10 yards to the OU38, NO PLAY. Lazy feet by Oklahoma's new right tackle, as he uses poor technique and gets beat inside. The inconsistency from OU's offensive line is pretty shocking, particularly compared to what we saw from OU last season. In any case, OU is in another bad down and distance.
1-20 OU38 Jones, Landry pass complete to Broyles, Ryan for 3 yards to the OU41 (HOOKS, Terrance). BYU is perfectly happy to let OU throw for 3 yards on 1st and 20. This screen is terribly run and it's obvious that with the new offensive line and brand new QB, OU's offense is all out of sorts. If only they could stay on schedule, with 2nd and 6 or 3rd and 3.
2-17 OU41 Jones, Landry pass complete to Miller, Dejuan for 8 yards to the OU49 (LOGAN, Brian). BYU's defense is very good in 2nd and 8+. This play is a win for them.
3-9 OU49 Jones, Landry sacked for loss of 1 yard to the OU48 (HOOKS, Terrance). 3rd and 7 or more? Advantage BYU. Have a guy you just moved from tight end starting at center, trying to call new protections to a group of green offensive linemen? Expect sacks.

That's about it for the play-by-play. The point of this was to show that while BYU's defense is probably improved from last year, OU really grounded its own offense more than BYU stopped the Sooners.

The Sooners had 4 1st downs of 1st and 20.
1 out of every 7 1st downs for OU was of more than 10 yards.
OU comitted 9 offensive penalties for almost 100 penalty yards.
OU faced 18 2nd downs. Almost half were 2nd and 10 or more. A third of OU's 2nd downs were 2nd and 11+, including 2nd and 12, 12, 16, 17, 17, and 21.
OU had only 2 2nd and 3 or less downs.
75% of Oklahoma's 3rd downs were 3rd and 5+.
2/3rd's of the Sooner's 3rd downs were 3rd and 8 or more, and remarkably, more than 1/3rd of their 3rd downs were 3rd and 12 or more!

BYU does some things well on defense, and some things not so well, but every defense does better when the offense is in long downs. OU was 2-11 on 3rd down coversions because they were constantly trying to climb out of the hole they dug for themselves.

Can BYU count on FSU gifting them the game to the Cougar defense? Probably not.

Where OU's offensive line had only 23 career starts, FSU's offensive line has 85+ career starts.
OU was breaking in 4 new offensive line starters, one at a new position, and only one starter had over 10 career starts. FSU's entire offensive line is back intact, and all of the starters have started 10+ games at the same position at which they are currently playing.
While OU had a converted tight end playing center calling the protections, FSU's center is in his 3rd year starting. While Ryan McMahon is seen as merely good as opposed to excellent by some FSU fans, he is excellent making sure the offensive line is correct in their protections. BYU isn't likely to get free rushers coming at quarterback Christian Ponder like they did against Oklahoma. The Cougars were very smart, however, to take advantage of a tight end playing center by using a variety of looks and blitz packages. You have to hand it to them, BYU has some very creative stuff on defense.
Florida State's offensive line is very good (considered one of the best in the country). They surrendered only 1 sack against Miami on 42 pass plays, an excellent 2% sack allowed rate. If BYU wants to get pressure on Christian Ponder, they better be prepared to bring a lot of rushers, and if they do that, they better hope FSU is in a 2nd or 3rd and long situation. Otherwise, it's FSU's playmakers one-on-one in the open field with BYU's defenders.
Not only that, but the Noles offense is not heavily penalized. They committed only 3 penalties for 35 yards in the season opener against Miami (one of which was highly questionable). I'll discuss this later in the week, but if BYU wants to get FSU into 2nd and 8+ or 3rd and 5+ situations, they are going to have to take chances. FSU simply doesn't surrender many tackles for loss, and BYU did a very poor job of getting tackles for loss against Oklahoma. See for yourself:

FSU had the best rushing offense in the ACC last year, and one of the better ones in the country when you adjust for opponent defensive quality. I don't think that has gone away. Teams didn't believe Ponder could throw on them, so they loaded up against the run and gave FSU the pass. But he's now shown that he can, posting consecutive career highs in passing yards. Additionally, as ESPN's announcer's astutely noted, BYU can't hang with fast receivers in man coverage. They depend on playing soft zone, which works great when they have a lead or when the other team can't run the ball, but if the opponent can run... BYU will have to make some changes, one of which will assuredly involve a gamble BYU is likely to lose on the outside.
BYU has some interesting choices to make in this game, and I'll address those as the week rolls on, but one thing is clear: BYU can't count on FSU to give them the game like OU did.

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oops, fixed the drive numbers on the videos

I missed the part where you skipped a few.

Great read. I am cautiously optimistic about this game.

by pbysh on Sep 16, 2009 4:15 AM EDT reply actions

I'm glad you posted the videos, because the stats really don't tell the whole story...

Oklahoma’s o-line was totally confused by BYU’s defense and resorted to massive and blatant holding on nearly every play. The ref’s could have called holding 20, 30 times in this game, because OU was hanging on the back of Jorgensen’s jersey on nearly every play. Bradford is such a great quarterback that he still made completions for a few yards, despite getting knocked around quite a bit.

I mean, just look at the first play on your YouTube clip of drive 10. Have you ever seen an o-tackle hold more blatently against a DE with out being flagged? Is that really a legitimate 13 yard run?

Also, I thought that the 6 play goal line stand by BYU was pretty impressive by any standard. I think it’s a little bizarre that you didn’t include that in your analysis.

That being said, I think you’re right that FSU will move the ball much better than OU did by virtue of their o-line. But I also think OU has better RBs than FSU, OU had 2 returning 1,000 yard rushers, so it will be interesting to see how the running game plays out. I suspect that BYU’s coaches are a little more concerned about Ponder’s mobility than FSU’s running game.

by cougfromcali on Sep 16, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

Also, I thought that the 6 play goal line stand by BYU was pretty impressive by any standard. I think it’s a little bizarre that you didn’t include that in your analysis.

I wasn’t trying to detail the whole game, rather show that BYU is a team that really thrives on other team’s errors, and that they are much easier to beat if you avoid killing yourself, because of their defensive style and personnel.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

True...

They’re going to try to get inside Ponder’s and the center’s head with those hard to read long blitz’s from different angles. If FSU can block the right guys, they’ll do well. But BYU will try to keep them guessing wrong.

by cougfromcali on Sep 16, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I was curious about the goal line stand

So here it is for everyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1KfneINGVE

by pbysh on Sep 16, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow. . .

I did not expect to see this kind of play from OU. I didn’t check out the game until the end so I was unaware the game was . . . whats the word. . . GIVEN to BYU on a silver platter for much of the game.

But don’t get me wrong, a win is a win, whether you earn it or not (see Jax St.). I credit BYU for seemingly being in the right place at the right time, but this makes me SERIOUSLY question their #7 ranking (and OU’s #3 for that matter).

This seems like it could be a setup game, where they are a little overconfident, and maybe we can hit ’em early before they wake up and realize we are NOT an OU caliber offense. . . were MUCH BETTER.

Here’s to some more Kool-Aid :)

p.s. FSUn I put up those simulated stats you asked for in an earlier fanpost. I swear if we win 34-30 I just might take ALL the credit. ;)

by freshcollegeboy on Sep 16, 2009 5:00 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah that's right its 5AM Est.

I’m pullin an all-nighter getting ready for back-to-back exams in Analytical Chemistry and Organic Chemistry in 3 hours . Bring on the Red-Bull and The Dew!

by freshcollegeboy on Sep 16, 2009 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions

That is all well and good but it is only PART of the equation.

While it is true the FSU offense may not “gift wrap” the game for BYU’s defense….it is entirely possible that FSU’s defense will gift wrap the game to BYU’s offense. 2 games in a row we have seen FSU’s secondary completely oblivious to receivers streaking down the field. JSU would have won that game by 14 points had Perilloux been accurate….Hall will not make those same mistakes.

FSU’s offense may not lose this game…but it is entirely likely the defense will.

by Egret on Sep 16, 2009 7:45 AM EDT reply actions

BYU fan here.

This is some excellent and detailed analysis, and you make really good points. There’s no question that Oklahoma shot themselves in the foot with penalties, turnovers and mistakes. And I understand your points was to illustrate how significant OU’s gaffes were in assisting BYU’s defense. But in making that point, you’ve omitted some critical evidence to the contrary. (Sorry in advance — this is going to be really long.)

I find it interesting that the OU drives where BYU played its best defense (5th, 6th, 8th, 12th, 13th) are the drives you say little about or omit. I know you’re doing that to make your point, and I understand that, but you can’t discount them completely. Those drives contained two 3-and-outs with no penalties (the declined 3rd down penalty in the 5th drive notwithstanding), the Bradford injury, the seven-play goal line stand to hold OU to a field goal, and the final OU possession that ended in the long missed field goal. I believe it is significant that when it was most important, BYU’s defense did hold.

Also consider that they forced a fumble on OU’s 4th drive after OU intercepted Max Hall and looked ready to score again. This was OU’s first drive after their only TD drive of the game, and while BYU was getting beat on the run, the fact that they forced the fumble, and recovered it, speaks well of their ability to keep their heads and bounce back after a demoralizing TD and turnover. (And I grant you that fumble recoveries are statistically random, but I give perhaps more credit than you for causing it in the first place.)

The 5th and 6th drives may have contained unimaginative play calling, as you say. But do credit BYU for stopping those plays anyway. This is also a good place to point out that BYU’s tackling was very sure all game. Individual defensive players were able to wrap up well for the most part, and few gang tackles were necessary. This has not always been the case in the past for BYU’s defense, and I was very encouraged to see it.

On the 8th drive, the one that knocked Bradford out of the game, it is important to note that not only was OU penalized for holding, but BYU was also penalized twice, each for 15 yards (pass interference and face mask). Not that that’s a sign of a good defense, obviously, but it wasn’t like OU was marching down the field all on their own on that drive. This is also a good place to note that BYU got pressure to both Bradford and Jones the whole game. On two separate plays on this drive, before Bradford’s injury, he was hit hard just after releasing the ball. That he got injured is regrettable and surely had an effect on the game. But I also give credit to BYU for getting to the quarterback. Now, as you say, this may have been the result of OU’s patchwork offensive line, and you point out that FSU’s is superior. Fair enough. That still doesn’t change the fact that BYU was able to hurry the QB when necessary.

(There is a side note to make here, and you have pointed it out as well, that BYU often does not fare well against running QBs, or more specifically, QBs that have the ability to run when plays break down. And it may well be that BYU’s blitzing and efforts to pressure the QB may be detrimental in light of Ponder’s running skill; if he takes off up the middle when a linebacker blitzes on the end, BYU could be in trouble. That will have to be taken into account as BYU prepares.)

The 12th OU drive was the goal line stand to limit the Sooners to three points, eventually costing them the game. BYU overcame a questionable pass interference call to muster 5 plays where they allowed 1 yard or less. I know this is perhaps easier to do at the goal line, but the fact remains that, when OU truly needed to blow BYU off the ball and run it in (as they had a few times in the first half), BYU did not allow them to do it. As I said earlier, it speaks very well of a defense that they are able to hold in the most critical spots.

On OU’s final drive, the critical sequence begins with OU on BYU’s 33-yard line. From there, BYU stops a run for a 1-yard gain, forces an incompletion, accepts a false start penalty, and forces another incompletion, leading to a long missed field goal. Although earlier in the drive BYU did give up moderate-yardage passing plays, the point again is that they held when they needed to.

A couple of other, more general points:

While you are right that OU faced 3rd and 5+ 75% of the time, in half of those cases, the long yardage was due entirely to BYU’s defense, and not a penalty.

BYU played much of the game without defensive captain and playcaller linebacker Matt Bauman, who suffered an injury in the first half. That BYU managed to hold in critical spots in the second half without Bauman should not go unnoticed. Also, BYU’s secondary had battled constant injuries all through fall camp. The entire starting unit got very little practice time together. Given that, they played exceptionally well, although I grant that they were not tested much downfield by OU.

And I know this particular point is not specific to BYU’s defense, which is the focus of your post, but it is relevant to the title you chose, about FSU beating themselves. You end with this:

BYU has some interesting choices to make in this game, and I’ll address those as the week rolls on, but one thing is clear: BYU can’t count on FSU to give them the game like OU did.

What this fails to take into account is BYU’s own four (4!) turnovers. Perhaps OU’s offense was unable to make those turnovers count since they were so busy shooting themselves in the foot. But if anything, it could be said that BYU gave the game to OU. Except that they didn’t. Because they played best when they needed to most.

At least, that’s the way I choose to look at it. As a BYU fan, of course. :)

I didn’t mean to make this comment so long, and I hope you’ll forgive me for doing so. And all of this might mean absolutely nothing as far as this week goes. I’ve no doubt that FSU will show the Cougars plenty of things they haven’t seen yet. But I figured this post needed a rebuttal. Looking forward to Saturday. Much respect. Cheers.

Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?

by Shums on Sep 16, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

There's no such thing as a comment being too long on Tomahawk Nation.

And thank you very much for the Robert Novak rebuttal to our James Carville.

by The K-Man on Sep 16, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions

by fsu44 on Sep 16, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions

as K-man said no comment is to long

(unless its mine and you dont spell check hand) As for what you said I got to see most of the BYU/OU and BYU/ Tulane games and the Def was ok. What stuck out to me was that Offense. It can be very potent with time and thats something hall should get. If FSU doesnt beat itself then they might just hand with BYU. Last week Im writing off as lack of prep time. Might not be the truth but hey what do I know.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 16, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Great post Shums!

Might take me some time to work through this.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Nothing taking away from BYU, but....

I saw this game and most of the points you make about the defensive stops you mention again are due to poor line play. Even without the penalties the OU offensive line was pathetic during this game. The game against Idaho State this last weekend wasn’t much better. The Idaho State did a goal line stand the same number of plays that the BYU defense did. This OU line was more disciplined on penalties but are still having problems getting their blocks down to open some holes.

I will say that this game is going to fall on the Florida State Defense. Max Hall is a complete quarterback and you will need to bring in the defensive A game for a win. OU has an amazing defense this year and if our offense would have held onto the ball a while longer we might have held BYU to only 7 points instead of 14. By the end of the game our defense was pretty gassed on the long scoring drive due to our offenses’ inability to do anything.

This is going to be a good game. OU should have won the game, but did not. End of story. If Bradford and Gresham played this possibly could have been won even with the bad line play but injuries are part of the sport.

Good luck to both teams. Shoud be a good game.

by What_the on Sep 18, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Good post Shums,

enjoyed the read.

by KnoxNole on Sep 16, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions

Nice post Shums

I agree with both sides of the analysis and would even like to add one thing that Shums forgot. I am not 100% sure of this but believe that the BYU defense, due to missions and JC transfers, is a few years older average wise than the FSU offense. To me, this added maturity brings some advantages that are not able to be calculated by statistics. I think its helps to build or foster chemistry also.

by diablonole on Sep 16, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions

All I know is

I think FSU (with a 1-1 record, humbled and with something to prove) is in a much better position going to face a BYU team with sky high expectations, having started the season so strongly.

I think we’re gonna come out fierce as hell. Hopefully, they underestimate us.

Right? RIGHT?!

by Fire Machine on Sep 16, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions

I hear ya, Pete!

HEY!!!!!

by Fire Machine on Sep 16, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

I hope you are right.

As long as BYU doesnt get an early lead I think we can hang or take off. If they get 2 scores ahead It could be lights out.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 16, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

In FSU's first two games

we have 23 Penalties for 158 Yards.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 16, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions

How many offensive penalties?

What’s the breakdown game to game?

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Against Miami, it was 2 offensive penalties for 15 yards.
Against J State it was 5 for 31 yards.
In the first two games we have only 11 penalties for 86 yards.

by mhauer on Sep 16, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow...I really messed up those stats. Pretty Impressive how I did that.

Pulled JaxSt’s by accident and looked at the wrong year for the Miami game. Heres a breakdown

Miami –
Offense – Holding (McMahon), False Start (Easterling),
Defense – Pass Int (PRob), Offsides (player unlisted), Offside (JaBaris Little),

Jax St – JaxSt
Offense – Illegal Block (Givens) , False Start (Reliford), Holding (No Player Listed), Illegal Formation, Holding (Fortson)
Defense – Roughing The Kicker (PRob),

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 16, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually look pretty good in the penalty department.

First time in a long time.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 16, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I am fine with defensive penalties.

In college, it makes sense to pass interfere a lot.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I've wondered if changing PI to a spot foul has been given some thought.

Would not be surprised if it is changed.

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 16, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I like having it be 15 yard.

It gives veteran DB’s with football knowledge options if they get beat instead of just giving up huge pass plays.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 16, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Wasn't there some illegal blocks by our receivers in the UM game?

by FSUjab on Sep 16, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions

They declined a couple of penalties.

That may be one.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 16, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

WOW! We really have depth problems on defense

Jabaris Little got called for offsides while playing defense!

OH YEAAHH!

by TBfisherman on Sep 16, 2009 4:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Hah, good catch.

But it was on a kickoff, so it’s not as bad as it looks.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 17, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Once again, Gotta love this site

Where else can a Nole fan go for this 1st rate analysis!
Great stuff FSUncensored!

wac

by FSUwac87 on Sep 16, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

I don't want a shootout in this game

Though it’s entirely possible that’s what we get. We need to control the ball and win TOP by 5-10 minutes. If we get behind, the likelihood that we start throwing on first and second downs increases, as does the likelihood that we get into those 3rd and 5+ situations. That’s a recipe for disaster. I like our chances on offense if we make them bring 8 to 8.5 into the box to stop the run and leave our edge guys matched up one for one on the outside. Running from the gun and running Ponder will be key, as we’ve said. If we win the toss, I want the ball first. Let’s establish ball control and not get behind too early.

Swagger, Intensity, Execution

by DKfromVA on Sep 16, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions

Just finished rewatching OU vs. BYU & BYU vs. Tulane & Tulane vs. Tulsa

Sufficive to say that BYU hasn’t seen a real Oline yet. OU had size, but played most of the night confused. That, to me was the difference in the game.

Notes:

1. BYU times & disguises blitzes perfectly. the key will be picking them up. I only saw about 3 major variations of blitz, however, so it should be doable, especially for us. (bradfords foot work in the pocket is not that impressive, Arm and acuracy WOW, but with his new line he didn’t avoid rushers well AT ALL…Ponder should do better there)

OU’s line looked as confused as a termite in a fiberglass YO-YO in pass pro. they were REALLY REALLY BAD!

2. BYU’s D line can be pushed on the run, and we will need to do that some. Our line is an advantage and we need that to come through in run as well as pass protection. It hasn’t been as good as we would like on run so far.

3. BYU’s secondary boasts good numbers, those numbers apear to be because they get such good pressure on opposing QB’s. Given time they can struggle a bit.

4. BYU’s Offensive line looked a little better than I expected given their injury and missions issues. Tulane was awful, however and could push them at times. OU did a great job, the problem was unbalanced blitzing made passes too easy for Hall. He got hit, but mostly after getting the ball out already.

5. Hall is INSANELY accruate! But the quick, timing nature of their routes (especially on screens and pre-snap reads; not to mention he believes in his ability to put the ball in there) causes him to force the ball into coverage a good bit.

6. OU covered WR’s exlusively with LB’s and Safties all night. I’m certain we will show our new nickle look to some of their 4 wide looks, and I’m hopefull “KIller” or “G5” or whatever we’ve decided to call Reid, and moody will match up a little better than OU’s LB’s did in coverage.

Bottom Line:

A. How well we block.

2. How well we cover Slots and screens. believe it or not I think a little PT from McNiel and some line up changes may get us a little more pressure than we’ve seen here to fore…only little more.

D. We may have something in the return game they haven’t seen yet either.

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Sep 16, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

A. then 2. then D?

Exactly what kind of numbering system is that? You trying to throw BYU off the scent?

by KnoxNole on Sep 16, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh no sir. Someone educate the man.

Tomahawk Nation: No-Holds-Barred Nole Analysis

by Bud Elliott on Sep 16, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

At Tomahawk Nation we use the A) 2. D) format when outlining, and yes...

we do hope ANYTHING we do throws of the opponent

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Sep 16, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Let's see if this helps...

Kevin, you’re what the French call “les incompetents.”

by Aussierat on Sep 16, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice Reference.

"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"

by UNFNOLE on Sep 17, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I think this is a pretty good analysis...

I am curious to see how FSU covers BYU’s 2 tight end sets, though. I think some of those WR’s you saw covered by LB’s and safeties were actually TEs. BYU has 2 of the better TEs in the country, and when they use both at the same time, it’s a difficult puzzle for most defenses to figure out. They’re too fast for many LBs and too big for most secondary players.

by cougfromcali on Sep 16, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Awesome point and Huge oversight by me!

When you are in 4 wide I think the slot will be nickle covered (for us a speedy 5* true frosh that will eventually play CB).

The tights will still get a backer or strong saftey either way OU was way missmatched in this arena compared to how I “believe” we will try to cover.

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Sep 16, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

i watched the byu/ou game

and the biggest thing i can say about their defense is they dont look overly athletic, our strongest assest agaisnt them will be our speed, and if its a dry field we’re gonna use alot of it.
ima try to see if i can find the post i made on their defense a week or two back…

"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley

by jfree on Sep 16, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions

I would think it would be difficult to access their secondary athleticism...

OU never threw downfield.

I thought their front 7 looked relatively athletic.

By the way, your site and fans are very impressive.

by cougfromcali on Sep 16, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

respectfully, its hard to throw downfeild when you are laying on your back within 2 seconds of the snap

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Sep 16, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I love the post

You guys are the best and shum post is a good read also. GO NOLES !!!

by Keiston on Sep 16, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions

No doubt

You gotta admit that nobody breaks it down like they do on this site, and as for Shums’ post, can you imagine such a well argued, articulate, and respectful post coming from a Gator or a Hurricane fan?

by FSU PHD on Sep 16, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

exactly what I thought when I read it

by fhcnole on Sep 16, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Caz will be HUGE in this game

The outside back Pendleton is a play maker but he looks to be at the most 6’0". OU’s tight end had problems with him but with Caz’s experiance at OT he should be able to slow him down enough for us to get outside. Also the height advantage could be a good thing for us.

by kyled on Sep 16, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions

A BIG thing I'd say.

nice name too

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Sep 16, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Pendleton is a converted safety...

I’m not sure about his height, but he’s quick, can cover and likes to hit. I think he’s a better LB than safety, but he brings safety cover skills to the table.

by cougfromcali on Sep 16, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

on and off the ledge

Bud, I can safely say that as with your articles I go on and off the ledge regarding FSU football. You write something about our defense and I’m thinking we’re going to be lucky to win three games this year, then you put out things like we have 85+ starts at offensive line and I think, alright, ACC Championship time.

As always, good stuff.

by Brandon B on Sep 16, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions

FSU will win or lose for the following reasons

Why FSU wins:

1. This is the first team so far this year that we know what they run on offense and defense and have had time to prepare for BYU. We didn’t have that with Miami because of the new coaching staff on Miami and we didn’t have time to prepare against Jacksonville State.

2. Along with #1 I really think and would HOPE that our players have half a brain and realize that everyone including myself thinks they suck really bad right now and that they need to step up and make a statement in this game. If FSU comes out flat in this game the season is over. Plain and simple folks. The season is over. If our players are not excited to play this game and go into BYU timid and playing the way they have so far this year the game will be over at half time.

3. Must get the running game going to keep the VERY WELL DISCIPLINED defense of BYU honest. BYU in general is very disciplined, something FSU is not even close to being. FSU must establish a running game early.

4. BYU does the simple things well, while FSU hasn’t and unless our defense attacks, gets preasure on the QB we will be in for a long night. No rush on the QB leaves us even more vunerable to big plays down field which our defense has already shown is a major weakness. We must bring preasure.

5. The coaches needed to be beating the idea in our players head all week in practice that this is our chance to redeem ourselves from the first two games and show the nation we don’t suck. Like I said earlier if FSU loses this game the season is over, because the season isn’t getting any easier after this.

6. I honestly think we need to get Greg Reid the ball and put him on offense to let him make some big plays. He is at a whole different level with the ball in his hands and I think we need to put him in on a reverse or a fly pattern. Reid needs to play more, but not just on defense. I see him as an all around weapon.

by sll1728 on Sep 16, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions