Bowden: Defensive End Kevin McNeil must give better effort

Okay, so now that we've heard all the uproar over lame duck defensive ends coach Jody Allen's decision to start walk on Craig Yarborough over Kevin McNeil and Toshom Stevens, we find out that McNeil hasn't been hustling.

That matters, but what is more important is starting the guy who gives FSU the best chance to win. While Yarborough might be in the right position more often, he isn't a viable option because he will be blown away by any decent college lineman. If McNiel plays at a higher level, he should start. Period.

More on Jody Allen later, but McNeil has really been a waste so far. After showing a lot of promise, he had the car accident, then for whatever reason (maybe because he thought he wouldn't be eligible for two years), he elected to forgo an entire year of school instead of serving a 3-game suspension for his involvement in the academic scandal. He should be a Junior, but is a Senior. He slacked in summer conditioning and weight lifting, and almost failed out of school, but he can still be valuable to FSU if he just steps his game up and gives more effort.

over 2 years ago Bud Elliott 26 comments 0 recs |

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I hope this bad feeling I have in the pit of my stomach about the D is proven wrong...

all that I have been seeing and reading this off-season is making me more nervous by the day. I can’t wait for the season to start but hopefully there are no crazy surprises with the D come Monday

by RunninNole on Sep 2, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions

has anyone seen Yarb play?

Hopefully he is not as bad as you suspect. Obviously he was not our first choice, but he might be better than Stevens at this point. Hopefully his technique is good enough to help make up for his lack of size. I am VERY skeptical, but reserving judgement until I see him play. He might be our best, bad option.

OH YEAAHH!

by TBfisherman on Sep 2, 2009 12:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

He is 236lbs, he could bench the world and would still get pushed back. It's sort of a physics issue.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I understand the physics, but

If the offensive lineman can’t get his hands on him because of sound technique, will he not be more effective than a larger DE who lacks those abilities? I never played line, so I could be wrong, but I think there is more to it than just trying to run past, or through opposing linemen. I understand your point, and I know he is not the next EB, but he could possibly be better than an out of shape McNeil, and underweight and unexperienced Stevens. Situations like this make having a cupcake team early a good idea. Fortunately this year Miami is probably less ready overall, than we are.

OH YEAAHH!

by TBfisherman on Sep 2, 2009 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

You can have great technique, and be really strong, but when the ball is run right at you, you can't just get around the block.

You have to stone the guy and then shed him. Giving up 90lbs… means that won’t happen.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

good point

Which is proven by the fact that our elite linemen (EB) always project as pass rushers and not run stoppers.

OH YEAAHH!

by TBfisherman on Sep 2, 2009 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

He might be our 'best option'....

and that means our coaches don’t recruit very well…….not even close.

by noles55 on Sep 2, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I want the team to succeed no matter what.

But rooting for McNeil has become the polar opposite of rooting for Louis Givens, for all the wrong reasons.

by The K-Man on Sep 2, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions

Exactly

Oh how I wish we had the depth on the DL to tell him to hit the road

Swagger, Intensity, Execution

by DKfromVA on Sep 2, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

In recruiting....

coaches should consider who is undependable…..and recruit with that in mind.

IE, if you don’t have a DE you can count on….make sure you bring in more at that spot (we haven’t had a full DE group in a while), so you can bench the undependable.

Our coaches just keep plodding along and hope things work out. Remember, Allen could of had JUCO All American DE Pierre (who went to USF) and they turned him down…..now we are starting a Walkon and have what?……75 kids on scholarship. Why did we turn him down? Our defensive coaches are either brain dead or just don’t give a crap anymore. Bobby Bowden’s lifetime job program = STUPID COACHES.

by noles55 on Sep 2, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

this just sucks!

I mean what the hell am I supposed to think seeing a guy who looks like a linebacker line up against miami for defensive end? We really don’t have any better option than a walkon that probably sucks? Hell, move greg reid up there. Im sure there wouldn’t be much diferance.LOL

by pcnole on Sep 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions

This is what Yarborough has to say about it

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/sep/02/fsus-yarborough-not-stopping-now/

Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 2, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions

I want McNeil off the team!

Seriously, this guy has been selfish and self serving his entire existence here. This is his “money” year and this is how he gets ready for it, by being out of shape and almost failing out of classes. This is ridiculous, I can’t stand this type of player who cannot see the forest from the trees.

Who knows what the best case scenario here is but part of me would rather lose with the backups than win with McNeil.

by diablonole on Sep 2, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions

UM DE Moncur out for the game

UM now minus their two starting DEs.

Coach Randy Shannon said today that Eric Moncur will miss Monday night’s game at Florida State.

Moncur had been working on the side coming off a groin injury since early this fall.

Defensive end Adewale Ojomo is also out, hurting the depth at the end position.

by FtLauderdaleNole on Sep 2, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions

It's actually 1 starter and a co-starter

Robinson was going to start at the other I heard, not Ojomo.

Wesley started 11 games last year, they aren’t super bad off, but definitely not ideal.

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by Bud Elliott on Sep 2, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

at this point

I’m just shruggin my shoulders wishing Yarborough the best. Get out there and do some damage (preferably to Miami).

Not an alcoholic, just an FSU grad.

by onebarrelrum on Sep 2, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions

doubt he is the next Jamal Reynolds, but..

I am willing to give the kid a chance to see what he can do, especially if McNeil is not going to use his physical ability to his best ability.

I swear I read some feel good thing on McNeil a few months ago, but then again the papers run filler articles so there were feel good pieces on Justin Mincey (now hurt), Bud Thacker finally being healthy (hurt again, how ironic), etc.

by nolestuff on Sep 2, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions

He's "stagnated" physically since he got here. His weight is about the same as when he was recruited and he's not winning and Mr. Universe contests.

by The K-Man on Sep 2, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Wadsworth?

Reynolds wasn’t a walk on was he? Wadsworth definitely was …

by txnole on Sep 2, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions

from what it sounds like

craig obviously doesnt have ideal size, but has heart and what we refer to as a “motor”, and i’ll tell you as a former offensive linemen i would hate to go against them “heart and motor” type guys because they dont stop, i remember one scenario in high school i had to go against a de on “boards” in practice, where basically the o-linemen has to try and drive the d-linemen vice versa, no ripping or swimming, straight driving, and i had to go against a kid about 5’10 200, im 6’4 340… i beat him off shear size and strength, but i’ll tell you what, his motor was like anything i ever seen, knocked him down he got right back up diggin and choppin tryin to drive me till the whistle blew….i’d take a defense full of guys like that, than mcneil, who seems to be the total opposite so far ( i mighta killed any valid point because i did beat that de) but i think until after that first snap we should atleast reserve judgment on craig.
(sorry such a long post lol)

by jfree on Sep 2, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions

This is a really good post actually. Even though you did beat he guy he probably fought just hard enough to slow down the play for others if it were real life. I keep telling people, football is a team sport. Just because you blocked your man doesn’t mean that play was going to go any where due to the pursuit that would come with it. People on this board are thinking because we’re a little smaller than norm then that’s it for the running game defense. That’s a very hollow argument because stopping the run involves the whole front seven not just the line.

Yarbrough might get blocked effectively at the point to the point where he can’t shed the block and make the tackle but he’s just big and fast enough to keep inside leverage in order for pursuit to get to the RB, that’s what your need: recognition and pusuit.

by nextlevel on Sep 3, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

yea because even though i beat my guy in my story

craig is way bigger from a physical stand point and obviously benefits from a great strength and conditioning program at fsu, so whereas i beat my guy and all, hopefully craig being bigger and stronger (than my example) can fight with the best of em, and live up to the starting nod, and from what i hear miamis tackles aint the most physically gifted athletes even though they may be big, that doesnt always mean success….take a example from the bears vs broncoes preseason game few days back, bears startin ot orlando pace (6’7 325) got beat multiple upon multiple times by broncoes de/lb elvis dummervil (5’11 260), so it might be an advantage craig being smaller, because then he might be able to get under them unathletic ot’s and also use his motor to wear them big boys out.
by then them miami ot’s will be lookin foward for mcneil to come in and bring a lazy effort against them after fighting against a scrapper with nothing to lose.

by jfree on Sep 3, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m a Bears fanatic and was not happy at all with Pace’s performance. but you know what they say: Styles make fights.

by nextlevel on Sep 4, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Applicable phrase here: Point-of-Attack

McNeil (~260 lbs.) was supposed to be our SDE. Traditionally, this is a guy that’s lined over an OT and TE (strong-side). On a run play, he’s usually double-teamed; depending on where the 2nd-level blocker (i.e., LB) is, one of the two guys will disengage. A DE (especially SDE) has to be able to either a) hold the point of attack or b) speedily slice through a gap. Apparently we’re willing to explore the 2nd option.

by ricobert1 on Sep 3, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

At 260 and 6’2, they apparently called him fat. Some of the best DE’s play at no more than 260 because any bigger and your speed off the edge is adversely affected. Give me a smaller end like 240 and 6’3 or ^‘4. The DE’s main task is still to rush the passer, stopping the run is secondary which is why so much emphasis is put on pass rushing technique.

I thnk Yarbrough weighs 230-235 actually.

by nextlevel on Sep 4, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions