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Florida State's Offensive Line Powers Upset of #7 BYU Cougars

Florida State's Offensive Line Coach Rick Trickett is considered one of the finest coaches in the country at any position.

Going into their game against the 7th ranked BYU cougars, Florida State had many doubters.  Most national pundits predicted that FSU would lose by a minimum of two touchdowns.  Outside of the Nole's questionable defense, they also faced doubts about their offensive line.  Thought of as the best in the ACC and one of the best in the country headed into the season, the Noles OLine didn't dominate Miami in the run game, though they did pass protect very well, allowing only 2 sacks on 43 pass plays.  Against Jacksonville State, they struggled, like the rest of the Nole team did off of only two days of practice and the Miami loss still lingering.  Writers wondered where the Seminole's vaunted run game had gone?  Coming into BYU, few thought the Noles would remedy their run game problems, particularly because the Cougar defense had been so dominant, or so they seemed.

Last week I broke down the BYU-Oklahoma film and thought that it wasn't that BYU's defense was so amazing, but that Oklahoma beat themselves with repeated dumb penalties and a silly gameplan.  Check the link, I called it.  People often underestimate the importance of offensive line play and thus fail to account for it when evaluating a team.  But offensive line play can make an average running back look like a world-beater, or make a talented quarterback look below average.  OU's offensive line was the country's finest last year, but this year, replacing 4 starters, and having to move a tight end to center after an injury, they cost Oklahoma the game against BYU with 10 offensive penalties including 5+ false starts.  I profiled it in that article, but if FSU was to beat BYU, they would have to avoid 3rd and long situations and silly offensive penalties, because BYU plays great team defense but they struggle when having to defend both the run and the pass because of their lack of athleticism.  

But FSU Offensive Coordinator/ Head Coach in Waiting Jimbo Fisher said that he was was not worried about the run game or the offensive line.  Florida State's legendary Offensive Line Coach Rick Trickett guaranteed that his unit would get things worked out.  He unilaterally denied all interview requests for his linemen, stating that they were going to "stop talking and start blocking."  

Florida State's offensive line could not have performed better.  Their play was the antithesis of Oklahoma's offensive line.  Not only did the Nole's offensive front not lose the game for Florida State, they absolutely won it.  While OU committed 10 offensive penalties, the Noles had only 1 enforced against their starters (FSU pulled their first team offense once the score got to 54-21.  At the time they were pulled, FSU starters were gaining 7.2 yards per snap of the football).  BYU was shellshocked.  "We didn't think they would be so physical," said BYU Coach Bronco Mendenhall.  It started from the opening play.    FSU would not punt until the end of the 3rd quarter, with the game already well in hand.  The Noles marched for touchdown drives of 60, 70, 80, 82, and 86 yards the first three quarters.  FSU dominated BYU.  Everyone wants to assume that FSU's speed made the difference, but the Nole's offensive line was much, much stronger than BYU's defensive front.  BYU's linebackers could not get off the blocks of FSU's offensive line.  Florida State's likely All-America guard Rodney Hudson took home ACC offensive lineman of the week honors. 

After the jump, see just how dominant they were.

Star-divide

The Noles run game was excellent. The offensive line did not allow a tackle for loss (though one did come on a reverse where an FSU wideout made an ill-advised juke by the sideline.)  It started on 1st down.  The Noles had 21 1st down runs.  The results were as follows:  12, 12, 9, 9 (touchdown), 6, 5, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 (touchdown).  Florida State did not have any runs stopped for no gain or loss.  Zero.  They also dominated short yardage.  On 2nd and 3 or less, FSU ran every time and picked up the first down, every time:  Down-Distance (Gained)  2-2 (6), 2-1 (4), 2-2 (4), 2-1 (4).  Third down was the same story, 3-1 (6),  3-1 (4), 3-1 (2).  The announcers were stunned, calling the offensive line "velcro" because BYU's defensive linemen and linebackers could not shed the blocks.  Want another crazy nugget?  BYU's leading tacklers were their cornerbacks, who had 10 and 11 respectively.  BYU's cornerbacks had more tackles than the defensive line and linebackers combined, mostly because Florida State's line denied them any penetration and consistently put them on their backs.

"We showed great efficiency on a down to down basis.  Constantly stayed ahead of the sticks.  Were always in manageable downs,  we executed with great consistency, we were very physical up front, were very multiple, distributed the ball a bunch (8 different Seminoles carried the ball), we won 1st down consistently," said Florida State Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach in Waiting Jimbo Fisher, who coached the Noles to the ACC's top offense last season and won the ACC Offensive Coordinator of the Year award.  Florida State held the ball for 40 minutes, compared to just 20 for BYU.

It wasn't just the run game.  Christian Ponder was an incredible 21-26 passing for 195 yards, 2 TD's and no interceptions.  His quarterback rating was a preposterous 170.  But the credit also needs to go to the offensive line.  Ponder was not sacked.  He was hurried only twice, and was hit only three times.  Florida State had an incredible 30 1st downs.  They started out a perfect 10-for-10 on third downs, and the starters were 11-of-13 overall.  Ponder had time to go through all of his reads.  When BYU blitzed, FSU picked it up and FSU isolated the single coverage.  When BYU played a conservative zone, Ponder sat back and read all five players in the pattern.  

Perhaps the best way to judge their performance is to ask BYU's coach, Bronco Mendenhall:  

"I thought they played hard, I thought they played physical and I thought they sustained it from beginning to end. I was very impressed with their preparation.  A frustrating loss for our football program. Our inability to make critical stops on third down, due to the way Florida State was playing.  They won the physical matchup in terms of being able to run the football, and run it effectively from the beginning of the night through the end of the night. I thought those factors were the biggest difference in the game -- prohibiting our offfense from having enough snaps and being on the field frequently enough to give us the balance we were hopeful for.  Florida State played more physical tonight. I think they played with more hunger, meaning more desire. Many plays were stopped at the point of attack, but I think hey continued to play longer and harder than we played.

I was impressed through the week with their line's athleticism. I was impressed today that they were more physical than I anticipated. They were very athletic in the first two football games in terms of getting downfield on their screen passes, and cutting. Their size is more like defensive linemen, as you watch them. So they are very athletic.  I didn't think they would be able to move us off the line of scrimmage. And not only did they do that, they did it consistently, beginning to end. And that was the biggest surprise to me of the game. And I have to give them credit."

[On the difference between FSU and BYU's front, and why Bronco expected to have success against FSU]:  "Because I believe Oklahoma's offensive line was a very good front, and I think that we were capable of more. Yet, they, from beginning to end, ran the football and it wasn't a lot of elaborate schemes. It was basically zone blocking which was their men against our men."

[On Halftime Adjustments]: "Really, when it comes down to the adjustments made -- and this will sound maybe less than what you hoped to hear, it really comes down to gap integrity, and each player doing exactly what they are supposed to do. And when you run zone schemes, someone is losing at the point of attack, or someone is getting cut off, and losing their gap. And that is where seams develop."

"Basically, man for man, Florida State's run offense was better than our run defense this evening. And when you start taking chances and bringing pressure -- and we brought more today than probably in any of the previous two games, maybe all of last year, in trying to help them make plays, but even then Florida State handled that well.  Everything we had planned and prepared, we used. And none of which was very effective. Our zone pressures weren't working in terms of getting to the quarterback. We had some man pressures that also weren't effective.  And base zone and even dropping eight [wasn't effective]. So execution ultimately was their execution was better than ours."

While All-America Candidate Left Guard Rodney Hudson took home ACC Offensive Lineman of the week honors, other starters played at an extremely high level as well.  Left Tackle Andrew Datko is following up his Freshman All-America campaign with a great outing, dominating the Mountain West Conferences's All-Time Sack Leader Jan Jorgensen.  Center Ryan McMahon improved his performance immensely from the Miami game and importantly, kept the line abreast of the various blitzes BYU was running from their uncommon 3-4 alignment.  Right Guard David Spurlock and Right Tackle Zebrie Sanders both played extremely physical and did a great job maintaining their blocks, allowing the runner to find the hole.

It seems obvious now that the running game wasn't dominant against Miami because Miami schemed to take away the run and allow the pass, if Ponder could throw it, because FSU couldn't throw well last season, and because Miami has an excellent defensive tackle tandem which played well against Rodney Hudson while Hudson had an injured foot.  But Ponder showed FSU can and will throw the ball, and now that teams have to respect both the run and the pass, they are in a bind.  Florida State is averaging more than 450 yards against ranked teams.  No school is averaging more (minimum 2 games).  Starting last season when they were the youngest offensive line in the country with three true freshmen and two sophomores as part of FSU's Undercover Youth Movement, this unit has steadily improved.  If a team is going to stop FSU's run game, they better have an elite level front-7, of which are only found at Clemson, UNC, and UF, on FSU's schedule, or they are just going to have to gamble and risk being shredded by the pass.  With no Seniors and everyone expected to return in 2010, this offensive line has a serious chance to be the clear cut top unit in the country next season.  The offense could follow a similar path.  While It's not yet the best in the country, it should be the ACC's best again this season and has a real chance to be the best in the country in 2010.  

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Correction

Should read most """"experts"""""

If you build it, they will come.

MORE FOOTBALL INFORMATION, NOW!!!!!! BRAIN IS HUNGRY!!!!!

by stevegrizzle on Sep 22, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Mcmahon

has he won you over yet uncensored ? or do you still see him as overrated?

by Cee on Sep 22, 2009 3:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Ditto

I did see him flying backward once or twice during the Miami game. Don’t know about JState but he was lights out against BYU. What year is he?

http://s825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/unclefestus/

by GonzoNole on Sep 22, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he is playing better and was hurt last year.

I also think Allen Bailey for Miami is an amazing freak when motivated and healthy. Unfortunately, he was just that against FSU.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great Read

I was curious as to how Spurlock has been playing, now you answered that.

Also, I am having trouble watching the games. I was wondering if FSU has used some type of 1-back power formations like a 2-TE or TE/Hback combination? The reason I am asking this is because our red-zone offense seems to be so much better this year.

Request FSUn or SWFL or FDNole- how did Monte Kiffin lay the “blueprint” to slow down the UF attack? The highlights I saw, he rushed 4 an dropped many into coverage forcing Tebow to run 24 times, it seemed. I am very curious as to how he defended the spread option.

Thank you for your time, and this wonderful site.

by LincolnHighNole on Sep 22, 2009 4:38 AM EDT reply actions  

The problem is....

…the teams that have the best results stopping UF all have big, powerful, run-stopping DT’s.

I wouldn’t use any of those words/terms to describe ours.

by Fsued on Sep 22, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still baffled how McCray and McDaniel don't have more success when playing the inside together...

There both right at 300lbs and seem to play nasty. I think I’ll pay closer attention to see if teams are checking out to off tackle runs or passes when they play side by side…

I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three.

Elayne Boosler

by NaGaNole on Sep 22, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

McDaniel is a true freshman.....

the fact he can even play without getting blown out (despite his size) shows what a great player he is.

But it usually takes 2-3 years for a DT to be able to a physicall dominate DT.

by noles55 on Sep 22, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: redzone success

It’s all about execution in the redzone…mostly OLine execution. We are able to use the TE more because our line pass blocks better. Our receivers are running the correct routes which means Ponder doesn’t have to look at receivers to see what route they are running but he can look at the defense to see where the open spot is. Also because we can throw the ball at a highly successful rate we can run it more. The field is smaller in the red zone so the safeties can more easily play the run and not give up the big pass unless the offense can execute.

FSU doesn’t really have a FB. I know Pryor is listed as one but he’s really just a hard runner. The TE’s are now closer to H-Backs which allows for more variations on what an offense can do. FSU can run out 2 RBs, 2 TEs/H-Backs, and a WR which looks like power run personel and run a 4 wide set. FSU hasn’t done that as much but it wouldn’t shock me to see it.

by evenflow58 on Sep 22, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was curious as to how Spurlock has been playing, now you answered that.

He’s still too eager to climb to the 2nd level and disengages from his double team too early.

Also, I am having trouble watching the games. I was wondering if FSU has used some type of 1-back power formations like a 2-TE or TE/Hback combination? The reason I am asking this is because our red-zone offense seems to be so much better this year.

Yes, but I’m not sure that is why our redzone offense is better. We’ve had a lot of plays stopped inside the 5, which gives a rather short first and goal.

Request FSUn or SWFL or FDNole- how did Monte Kiffin lay the "blueprint" to slow down the UF attack? The highlights I saw, he rushed 4 an dropped many into coverage forcing Tebow to run 24 times, it seemed. I am very curious as to how he defended the spread option.

I think he did a good job, but I would point you to these two articles and suggest everyone read them: One, Two.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you kindly, sir.

I understand now the “Kiffin” effect. That guy is smarter than I thought. Perception is everything to him,and by not getting blown out, the national media is lauding him as a great coach.

by LincolnHighNole on Sep 24, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent Read

TN did a piece on Datko a few weeks ago about all the great pass rushers he would face this year. How do you feel he is doing so far. Obviously BYU was a success. I think he did ok against the Canes and didn’t see the Jacksonville St. game.

by vegasnole9399 on Sep 22, 2009 4:39 AM EDT reply actions  

His technique is just so good.

The opposing guy has to either get lucky or be a great player. He needs to get stronger in his upper body to improve his run blocking but his pass set angles are surgical.

Remember though, he’s just a sophomore. And he will take time to build strength so he’s unlikely to leave early :)

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

It seems a crime

that you aren’t getting (adequately) paid for all this outstanding sports journalism, Bud. For the love of the Noles, I guess.
I suspected much of the credit for our success in Provo should go to the O-line, but you confirmed it.

by Chris Gadsden on Sep 22, 2009 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks!

Not to say Ponder wasn’t great. He was, but when we’re playing with 80% offensive leverage, the defense has no shot.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

FSUn nailed it.

Had to register to give FSUn proper credit for nailing this game. Having read the preseason FSU “O” v. BYU “D” article, I felt quite confident about the outcome, even after the JSU debacle and all of the negative punditry, did not waiver in my conviction — in most part due to the absolutely definitive profile of the favorable matchup of our OL vs. their front 7 in this game. I was a believer in Trickett upon his hire, thought he did an incredible job last year, and have now come to a place where I will never doubt this man’s product… unless, of course, it’s raining ;)

Anyway, thanks for providing some great info for the statistically inclined.

Unrelated note.. I’ve seen all of the discussion regarding preseason predictions with the probability slant… it would be interesting to see the final season predictions “mature” as games fall into respective W/L columns (i.e., 100% vs. 0%) and our understanding of our opponents and our own team progresses. Perhaps a midseason update would be in order? I would guess nothing much would have changed at this point (with 1 or fewer losses statistically expected to date), but if we can take care of business over the next couple of games (convert a couple 60-80%-ers into 100%-ers), we will see the end of season predictions begin to climb. Additionally, I think we can safely adjust BC, GT, Wake, and UMd outcome predictions upwards by at least a small margin after seeing these teams performances to date.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Welcome!

Trickett is a beast and it’s important to continue to build that quality depth.

As far as the predictions, yes, if FSU starts out 5-1, then you have to adjust upwards. I am still very worried about attrition, however, and think our defense is very bad. Remember that the first two offenses we played, while very good, were not the types against we often struggle. The next offenses we play aren’t as good, objectively, but as Nole fans we don’t care about that. We care about the problem that they are much better than they should be against us.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Have we considered the possibility

that MA has focused so much on spread-option offenses in the off-season, that we aren’t as good defending pro-style offenses?

I’m not saying that’s the case, just wishful thinking I guess…

by FSUjab on Sep 22, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can only hope

However, I think Miami beat us because of poor coaching. Players have to know their assignments, which are quite simply. If the coaches can’t get the scheme across to them, that is scary.

Still, it’s now a known problem (spread with some option element, even if poorly run), and they paid attention to it in th eoff-season/

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Color me an optimist

….but I think we can expect at least marginal improvement in the interior and exterior DL, as well as the secondary as the season progresses. McNeil is a legitimate game changer if he can get into form, and both he and Mincey give us some larger bodies up front when in the lineup (any word on Mincey’s status, btw?)… further, the more talented youth appear to be stepping into greater roles in the secondary (Reid, Allen, Moody, to date, and hopefully some Parks and Harley down the line).

Ultimately, though, I am hopeful that our offense putting excessive pressure on other teams to score will lead to more one dimensional (catch-up) strategies for the opposition, which will allow us to mask our weaknesses in almost all of our games (Florida being the obvious exception, of course, if they actually round into form by the end of the season). To this point, I think Florida’s offense helped to make their defense look “All World” last season, because teams were struggling to keep up, taking chances, and getting burned. Hopefully the tables are turned to some degree this year.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

See I worry that McDaniel will hit that rookie wall.

And I can’t agree with UF’s defense not being all world. Their current defense is the best defense I have ever seen, and that includes our 90’s defenses. They are just that good in my opinion.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: McDaniel, that's where Mincey's return helps most.

…with McAllister and Thacker’s return, to boot, McDaniel should be seeing fewer and fewer snaps… primarily when we need him. Plus, with the season’s outlook changing, we might have at least a few games where we can get our starters some rest (Maryland, BC, maybe another unexpected game?)… something we haven’t seen against DI competition in YEARS.

Absolutely, UF’s defense is nothing short of GREAT… but I do not think they are quite GOAT status. A. Black would be just another throw-away on our defense. Their interior DL, though large, does not appear to perform at an elite level. As contrasted to our 90s defenses, they do have a couple chinks in the armor that can be exploited. (Though our matchups against them are still unfortunately not favorable… we would need the road graders to blow up their interior, which we won’t have until next year — hopefully.)

However, all of this UF talk was simply to illustrate that our offense, if it can continue to perform at the new standard that it has established, will make our defense look A LOT better than it is, regardless of how good or bad the baseline might be. (BYU was a perfect example of this, in my opinion.) Further on this point, I think the offseason strength and weight gains of our OL might very well push that 1830 lb threshold just a bit higher this season.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a good point on Mincey

This will make some people sad, but my Goal against UF is to stay within 21. And not to do that how Kiffin did (see links in comment above to FtLauderDaleNole)

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

The game vs UF will not be decided until the 4th quarter IMO

UF isn’t as good this year. Their passing offense looks weak without Harvin and that other guy. Crossing routes are basically their go-to play, while they try to mix in enough go routes with their sprinters to loosen up the coverage.

To beat this team you do what Oklahoma did – play zone to minimize their speed, use some weird looks to confuse their QB, and really commit to the run up front. I’d go with a cover 2 with 4 guys covering underneath, 4 man rush, and 1 guy playing as a QB spy, which will help vs both the run and scrambles.

by tdchrisdavis on Sep 22, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

To beat this team you do what Oklahoma did –

play zone to minimize their speed,

We play a terrible zone.
use some weird looks to confuse their QB,

We don’t do this at all.
and really commit to the run up front.

Our front is very very bad.
I’d go with a cover 2 with 4 guys covering underneath, 4 man rush, and 1 guy playing as a QB spy, which will help vs both the run and scrambles.

Can’t really use a spy because they trap so much and it’s an easy read on some of the read plays.

Oklahoma’s defensive line is dominant. Ours isn’t even in the top 7 of the ACC.

This is the kind of thinking I worried about. Because we beat BYU doesn’t at all improve our chances at UF. I will be betting UF at any number smaller than 17.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: UF, the main things that have changed since beginning of season are...

(A) the offense is a bona fide heavyweight, so our defense does not have to “win the game” for us, (2) McDaniel has demonstrated that he will be a factor, even as a 1st year DT, and (D) while it fails to make “traditional” stops, our defense has now generated key turnovers that put us in a position to win 3 consecutive games.

Perhaps we can give Mickey some credit, and maybe he has realized some of his/our shortcomings and has been “gambling” a bit in his schemes and personnel use to offset our undoing via a “straightforward” spread attack (a semi-oxymoronic term, I know)…?

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Offense can't win games for you week in and week out.

What did Bowden used to say, defense is like a dog and offense is like a cat? Whatever, but it’s a decent metaphor, I guess.

by TRMNole on Sep 22, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also:

Key turnovers:

Miami: The pick-6 – The defense gave it right back.

Troy Jacksonville State: Hey, if Uncensored can throw it out, so can I. :)

BYU: Greg Reid is the man. But the final flurry of turnovers were all caused by the offense being up by 20-30 points. And we’re trained at TN to not count on fumble recoveries. Bottom line: The defense gave up 500 yards in 20 minutes of gameplay. Insane. We love the players on this defense, and we’ve got high hopes for their futures here, but the present is ugly. There’s just no way to describe the coaching effort on that side of the ball as anything other than “poor.”

by TRMNole on Sep 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Turnovers without the corresponding yards to back them up are not a repeatable skill and

are one of the leading indicators used to gauge whether a defense is playing over its head. We’ve been very lucky so far on defense.

Also, while McDaniel is playing well at times, he’s also been pancaked a few times and is nowhere near a quality player. He is maybe average at best. Plus, our defensive end play is so poor that it makes our line much worse than last year.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree about relationship between turnovers and yards;

to some degree, at least. Not so much fumbles (luck), but certainly secondary play. T Buck as a player being foremost example of a high risk, high reward style. Agree with TRMNole that the floodgates opened once they got behind, but I think that is CERTAINLY repeatable.

Just as teams gamble against us to shut down run, and hope they don’t get beat deep, we are doing the same, with some better preliminary results this year (possibly due solely to personnel upgrades – i.e., Reid – in secondary).

Finally, not sure I’d call McDaniel “average at best”. Has his shortcomings, but appears to be quite disruptive. (Kind of fitting the overall theme here; either penetrating or pancaked.) Still believe continued experience and Odell can give him the tools to improve as season progresses, and believe our DL, overall, will inevitably improve as the season progresses (for other personnel reasons noted above).

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's repeatable when we get ahead by 20 or 30 again.

When those guys have to worry about the run, it doesn’t happen. Anyway, was talking more about the fumble recoveries as not repeatable – bought into the idea here, perhaps Uncensored can link a reference, I gotta run.

Nice chatting – welcome!

by TRMNole on Sep 22, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're generally on the same page.

I think the nuance between our perspectives is the tipping point where that pressure on the offense becomes a factor, taking our opponents out of their game…. I’d say, given our slate of opponents (particularly ACC opponents), in the vast majority of games, a two touchdown lead can look fairly daunting to our opposition.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough on interceptions to a point,

however I expect those to drop like a rock once we start getting shredded by the teams who will spread us out and run (and I do see this happening).

How many fumbles have we recovered against Miami and J-State? BYU fumbled twice and lost both, Miami, I can’t remember.

I’ve been impressed with McDaniel in context only. Compared to DT’s on other teams like Miami, UNC, Clemson, Wake, NCST, VT, or as we previously discussed, Tennessee, I don’t think he’s good. I also think he will hit a major wall later in the year.

Oh, and one other thing, someone mentioned (not sure who) that we have two 300lbers now, but at the end of camp McDaniel was 286 and McCray was 294, so we’re 580 in the middle instead of 600. That’s not a huge difference bte it does matter IMO.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spread out + run. Agree that is the achilles' heel.

Has to be a team that can bring in 3-4 wide/speedsters but still pound it up the middle. But which teams on the sched, besides UF, can successfully pull this off? Fortunately, I think it’s a limited number.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clemson will

I think Carolina and NC State will try. GT poses a whole different slew of problems.

Swagger, Intensity, Execution

by DKfromVA on Sep 22, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that those teams will try

..but Clemson is fielding a 48% passer right now and hasn’t looked good on offense since Whitehurt’s glory days…. NC State didn’t look great in their only DI competition (opener against USCe) — are they hurting on OL? — and UNC can bring the power, but the downfield threat is missing this year (thankfully, no H. Nicks).

I have no idea what to expect vs. GT, but we can’t be any worse prepared defensively than last year, and appear to have the offense to go toe-to-toe in a shootout. Have to get a few of those lucky fumbles to turn the tide.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

The offense we are about to play

aren’t as good as the ones we just faced, overall, but what they will do to us will have the same impact.

A terrible BC offense killed us last year with the zone read play that they didn’t even run very well.

Clemson has a mobile qb with a huge arm, and Spiller. They’d give us fits with a D1-AA line. Plus I doubt we can put up more than 24 on that defense.

UNC’s offense is improving and I don’t expect to score much there.

NCST destroyed our D last season and the only way we beat them was to just hold the ball the entire 3rd quarter.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, this should be clearer

there are some games in which we will need our defense to hold bad offenses to bad performances.

So far we’ve played two bad games on defense, but against good offenses. I expect, because of scheme, that we will continue to have equally bad games, but against bad offenses, because of their schemes.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I follow.

And I recall how disgusting it was watching Crane (?) march BC down the field against us last year, in an archetypical case of what you’re describing.

That said… our offense had MANY opportunities to win that game, but failed, and even hurt us. Ponder’s newfound ability to effectively read a zone, and hopefully our OLs improved ability to deal with monster DLs, will be the difference in games of that nature, this year.

The 3rd quarter against NC State should be a baseline performance for the offense this season, not an anomaly. We will only lose when we leave too many points on the board, as we did vs. Miami. Clemson and UNC potentially have defenses capable of slowing us down, but both of those teams have some serious problems of their own.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

So take it like this

I think CU’s Defense, UNC’s defense, and FSU’s offense are all on the same level. Is FSU’s defense on the same level as those two’s offenses?

The same way with the BC game last year. The offense’s production was in line with what the better offenses did against that elite defense. But BC’s offense played much better against our defense than their offensive and our defensive ranking indicated they should have.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent way of phrasing it.

And I agree about our offense being on par with the UNC and Clemson defenses. I also think their offenses are every bit as “average” (or however you want to describe) as our defense is, status quo. We’ll certainly find out whether or not that assertion is accurate.

FYI, just noticed Butch Davis scheduled Georgia Southern, then an off week, in advance of our game. Hate that guy.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

UNC Offense

Their OL looked to be one of the worst in the ACC that i’ve seen this season. Their star TE is out. Hightower is a decent WR , their RB is decent. I think their offense is complete crap.

Maybe i’m missing it that they are improving. But i watched both their games this season all the way through.

I think GT defense is gonna eat them up. Since i don’t see how they will block GTs fast DE. UNC OL was so slow it was unreal. They seem like a bunch of fat guys who can’t move at all.

by Cee on Sep 22, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll put it this way

Clemson’s defense is the clear cut 3rd best in the country.
I don’t think anyone would argue with UNC’s being top 10.

Is our offense on that level? Probably, but definitely not above.

So their offenses, are they great? No, but they are no worse than our defense. Consider that they will out-scheme us in all likelihood, play at home, and UNC has 2 bye week prior…

GT’s defense is in trouble. They have 2 decent players and nothing else, and are worse than ours IMO.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last retort for the day...

UNC has something to prove before I grant their defense top 10.

As for Clemson top 3… I’m a big fan of Steele and I am sure he’s made tremendous improvements, but we gashed the same players for 260 on the ground last year, even without a passing threat. An amazing performance against BC this year, but sample size is still too small… Hoping they are not THAT good. Miami’s D actually looked better, or more consistent, against GT than Clemson’s. And on the other side of the ball, Clemson claims the most dysfunctional use of talent since JB. I believe much worse than our own issues with Mickey.

Back to original point of article, though, I am hoping the Trickett 5 give both of those defenses something they simply can’t prepare for.

by arrdub on Sep 22, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

GT Defense

I disagree on them being worse than our defense. They were up 21-0 on clemson basically the whole 1st half.

In the 2nd half clemson got GT on 3 and outs just about every time and gave up some points.

GTs biggest problem from what i’ve seen is their secondary. Vs good wide outs they get exposed easily.

I don’t think UNC has the talent at the WR position to expose GTs pass D.

by Cee on Sep 23, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well they might not be worse

but I think their secondary is by FAR their best unit. Then their dline (but only because of Morgan, the rest are baddddd), and then the linebackers.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 23, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think GT has a serious depth prob on D. were blowing hard by the 2nd qtr against Canes. I didn’t pay attention but assume the same happened against Clemson by trajectory of that game. I think we score a whole lot against them. question is do we have more than the matador D against option

by sperrett on Sep 23, 2009 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Loving the discussion

I would raise one question about the GT Canes game, and I know it’s not an excuse. scUM had a week and a half off after a HUGE win, while GT was playing their 3rd game in 12 days. They were gassed. Now, Miami still looked superb in their first 3 possessions and I do agree that GT’s D is in trouble like ours.

by HeedNole on Sep 23, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

100% on that. Just interesting to me to see how bad their are compared to other teams.

They played Miami who has arguable the best WR core in the nation.

Clemson has that track star guy Jacoby ford. Atleast i’ll get to see how my analysis is on UNC/GT after this weekend :)

by Cee on Sep 23, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not that impressed with UF's defense

maybe it was the “flu”, but TN has an inept, one-dimensional offense, absolutely no QB, and still put up 13 in the Swamp.

by FSUjab on Sep 22, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

"still very worried about attrition, however, and think our defense is very bad"

In response to arrdub re: adjusting the percentages upwards, attrition is one reason my precentages trended downward toward the end of the season. We’re still one or two hits away. And the defense is so very bad.

I like that Uncensored has stressed in this thread, while celebrating our progress as we should, that this was one game, and it was always a winnable game for us. I think I had BYU at 67% when we all went on record for fun before the season – and I don’t remember being the only one who was high on our chances in this game – and I’m pretty sure the only teams I had higher than that were Jax St., BC, and Maryland. And my win total was only 7 rounded up, so I wasn’t just handing out these scores. My point is I would think that 8 regular season wins is still a perfectly reasonable goal for this team with a 9th win in a bowl game. Sure, as we’ve discussed, that would probably only meet most folks’ minimum expectations for the team, but I’d still take it, unrealistic expectations raised a bit or not. Now, 9 regular season wins, ACC Championship game, and an ACC Championship coming at the expense of Miami? Priceless.

by TRMNole on Sep 22, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typical excellence as we have come to expect from you, however

it seems to me (without researching) that Sanders has had quite a few penalties.

Of course I would rather he hold instead of letting Ponder take a hit, but my impression is that this is not the case.

Would you say he is our weakest link on the O line, or am I mistaken in my assessment?

>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

by FrankDNole on Sep 22, 2009 11:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Spurlock and Sanders

are still developing in terms of their pass protection abilities, but have made significant improvements already from last year’s performances. They are both better run blockers than pass at this point in their careers, but I am satisfied with Sanders footwork and getting to the ball.

It seems to me that we’ve run quite a bit to the left side this year. Datko is still a year away from being what I’d call an elite pass blocker, but even he looks better than he did last year.

And to think…all of these kids come back next year! Trust in Trickett.

by ricobert1 on Sep 22, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sanders

One of the holds was definitely bs. I was on the phone with a popular FSU journalist during the play and we both exploded, calling BS. Sanders has improved a lot.

I also want to say that we have really good tackle depth. Sanderson is absolutely the real deal and could be a kid who starts for only one year but dominates as a redshirt Senior. He could also play guard for a year and then shift out to tackle and I don’t think we’d see a huge step down from Rodney.

I’m not sure on the weakest link. Spurlock makes the best and the worst runblocks. Sanders has a more difficult job than the guard. I’m still not much of a McMahon fan. Maybe I am just uncomfortable using the term weakest link. These guys all play really well and compliment each other nicely. Let’s just say it is not Datko or Huddy.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

hmmmmm
I was on the phone with a popular FSU journalist

Dot Com?

by tdchrisdavis on Sep 22, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the O-line is outstanding

In Trickett I trust. I love how he dosent get the 5* guys but coaches them up. He knows what hes looking for and how someone will fit. I would love to see what will happen if we get 1 or five * kids and the rest 4*s but at the same time he could get unanked guys and I beleave in him.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 22, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Great read

This gives me a lot of hope. However, my concern is that the OL, along with the whole team, takes a step back after this huge victory over BYU. What are the odds of this happening? In the past I would say very likely. I have more faith now and want very much to believe this year is different, but I need to see the same consistency week-in and week-out, no matter the level of competition, for the remainder of the year. The USF game is huge in this regard.

If we truly have crossed the line as Jimbo says, we can’t struggle against teams like Wake, NC State, Maryland, et al., anymore.

by Pinto on Sep 22, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

The odds are good, but the step back isn't a bad thing.

We’re going to face much better defensive fronts than BYU, which was about as bad as I thought they would be in the summer article.

We have to continue to evaluate performance relative to the quality of the opponent we face.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

On a macro level

I thought Mendenhall’s comments were very interesting. He was completely suprised to see that our “small” OL, who were more like DL to him, were as strong as they were. That’s just not the way it’s done out west, where if you want physical, you need big. To me his comments confirm the prevaling wisdom that western football is just not as tough as the eastern variety, and there is a difference in both the types of athletes and the conditioning standards.

by PeachTreeNole on Sep 22, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

He also made the comment that he was not aware Ponder was so mobile,

which to me is negligent. Did he fail to watch any 2008 film? Ponder’s legs were the difference between 8-4 and 6-6.

I’m not sure I agree with the Western football thing. It varies team by team across the country. I do think he underestimated just how freakish Miami’s DT’s were.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 22, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is one thing that stands out for me here

I can’t see scoring 24 on Clemson when last year the team scored over 40. The oline is much better, Ponder is in a groove and we have a stable of running backs here not just Antone Smith. There is not telling what the defense will do but I say we score at least 40 points. This is Clemson we are talking about also.

It will be interesting to see what happens with TCU.

Playstation All American, right again!
TomahawkNation
Better to bear the rebuke of the wise than to hear the song of fools

by DocHoliday2 on Sep 23, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Doc Clemson was missing a lot of guys. It's not the same team.

I will bet you whatever you want that we won’t score 40 points.

I think they will struggle v. TCU. Clemson has swine flu.

by Bud Elliott on Sep 23, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

If thats the case them we might get lucky too

That swine flu ant no joke it takes a lot out of you with the fever. You dont want to eat and it last longer. I would love to beat a team on full health but thats life Ill take a win where we can get one too.

Why is the sky blue? Because, God Loves the Infantry

by Desman on Sep 23, 2009 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Desman,

Clemson game is not until November. They will likely be fine by then.

Historically, we don’t play well at Clemson. Hard to take it as a given that our offense rolls up there and lights up an athletic defense (coached by Steele who still knows our personnel) on the road. That will be a tough, tough game. At some point, you need solid defense to win consistently on the road.

by FtLauderdaleNole on Sep 23, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

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