Tavaris Barnes decommits from FSU in favor of Clemson
Tavaris Barnes, longtime Seminole defensive end commitment, has flipped to the Clemson Tigers after his official visit this weekend. He gives the Tigers 21 commitments, leaving the Seminoles with 19 for 2010.
This hurts, as Barnes was at a position of need at DE. This makes Corey Lemonier all the more important. Look for Bjeorn Werner, who could play either DE or DT, to be heavily courted when he visits on 1/22/10.
about 2 years ago
NoleThruandThru
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With Elam and this flip
FSU could use a big commitment to prevent the impression of lost mo. I wonder if there is a “closet” or silent commitment that the coaches could ask to make it public.
by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 10, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions
Hopefully Mitchell or Deering will make it official after this weekend
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I'm still not sure anyone considers Elam to be a "loss" for FSU
even though they’re giving UF a world of credit for their “gain.”
I bleed Garnet and piss Gold.
Well
We kind of knew he wasn’t THAT interested
This year, IMO, also signals how non-sense-ical verbals are
doesnt look good
for odell, everyother defensive position is reloading well but d-line. he needs to deliver this next month.
Is Darious Cummings the only reason we are keeping Odell?
it seems ridiculous to keep a coach for one recruit, but the way our DL class is shaping up, we absolutely can not lose Cummings
(and no, I am not saying we have to worry about losing Cummings ATM).
Looks like Mack Brown is being recruited by Odell.
Wonder if that would get people off his back? LOL.
Not good.
But I never liked this kid.
by Fire Machine on Jan 10, 2010 11:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Does he come with baggage?
If the kid is a problem…do don’t want him. He looks like a helluva player. What don’t you like?
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
You have got to be kidding me
Must be the Viloria training program. The kid maybe not be committed.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
if they cant get any d lineman they would have no other choice to move LB to DE or switch to a 3-4 or 3-3-5
I wonder how ANY 3-4 defense gets pressure?
Possibly their OLB’s?
Good coaching?
Good recruiting/talent on the DL?
well, you don't just rush 3
Nobody gets pressure with that on a consistent basis.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I know.
Which is why of my several possibilities of getting a pass rush, sending the OLB’s was listed first. My “header” was a rhetorical question that I answered with “questions”.
Go for the 350 pound 2 star in the Carolinas
Begin a real push on Todd Chandler and Lemonier
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Anyone know why UM didn't want Chandler? Is he a big-time thug or something?
I’ve heard some people like him better than Floyd.
What the heck is going on?
I have no idea how FSU was not only unable to capitalize on the Urban Meyer debacle…but is instead actually losing recruits at critical positions of need. We’re getting smoked. It’s not NSD yet…and maybe our staff has some other guys ready to sign???? This is not good.
No need to panic...
remember just last week we moved from 30th to top 15.
by NOLEcasterWX on Jan 10, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I think we can panic at least a little.
it was joyner and luc that moved us up. neither are DL. And it doesn’t look like there are two five-star DL ready to commit to us. Sadly.
Well now we seem to be headed toward moving back toward #30. Recruiting classes shape up A LOT earlier than they used to. This does not look good. There’s no other way to spin it.
UF’s DL is going to be a nightmare to deal with for the next 4 years (not just kids from this year’s awesome class either…they were already solid). And we won’t have much of anything to throw back at them. Their QB and RB’s will have a field day…ours will get punished.
WE MUST GET STUD DEFENSIVE LINEMEN NOW!
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Comparing UF recruiting with FSU's right now and expecting them to be on equal levels is crazy
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
1. We recruited at their level last year.
2. The Urban Meyer debacle should have had some impact.
3. We’re further behind this year than any year since the ’07 NSD
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
They just have way too much momentum
We’ve gone over the ESPN thing ad-nauseum. But it bears repeating. They’ve won 2 of the last 4 NC and we lost to all three in-state teams we played. UFAG will not fall off a cliff due to a shaky heart valve (Meyer’s of course)
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
1. FSU needs to focus on winning the ACC again before we focus on UF. That’s the progression it will take to get back, and that’s the route Jimbo is taking.
2. FSU has two outstanding commits in Joyner and Luc, but no one can touch the roll that UF is on right now.
3. It ain’t over for the UF/FSU recruit battles. Watch RB Mack Brown.
4. I seriously hope you aren’t equating this class with the 2007 class.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding Brown…the thing that I don’t get…is you’d think that would be the hardest position for us to recruit. We’re already loaded with young guys at that spot. I really can’t imagine him leaving the class he’s projected to sign with…they’ll get him to stay. Just my guess. If we have a shot at turning anyone…it will have to be kids that worry that they won’t ever see the field at UF.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and aside from Demps and Rainey, their backs don't impress too much
Travon Van is coming, but all the coaches out here say he’d make a better DB
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. The more I think about it…I’d be shocked if we land Brown. And since it isn’t a critical need….it really doesn’t matter that much. We need kids who can PUNISH on D.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
UF may be pushing for Dillon Baxter
His dad was a former football player at UF and if they land him, I’d expect Brown to start looking around and we’d be in good position, IMO.
Baxter is better than Brown IMO
he’s a shiftier back who would fit their system. Brown is faster yes, but barrels into tacklers in the open field. Dillion evades them much better. But I get ur point, we’d land Brown easier
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
no we're not
seriously, the 2007 class was horrible, this class is a ton better.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
1. We recruited at their level last year
We got exactly one player (Jacobbi) at a position of 5-Alarm need. It’s not like we were calling our shots last year.
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I meant in terms of relatative overall talent. There was a huge gap between us and UF in ‘07 NSD. And this year is shaping up to be a big disparity. Still time. But I think it’s understandable to be concerned.
Our staff needs to stop tweeting and start showing results. Especially Odell.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
but we're improving more than they are, agree?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I meant talent
I think we have excellent coaches and they do as well.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
And this is on Dawsey
that is his high school.
And Barnes plays DE not Dt
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I was just about to comment on that
why is everybody saying get rid of Odell when this was Dawsey’s territory? I understand he shouldve been in contact with the kid but its still Dawsey’s ground. I think people on here think the position coach is solely responsible for the kids they recruit.
One recruit or two is no big deal.
But we have slacked on DT recruits for the past few years. That has to fall on someone’s shoulders. Whose shoulders would you lay the blame on if not the DT coach?
And, ftr, I don’t blame Haggins for Barnes. I don’t really know who to “blame”. I do know Rivals says Haggins and Dawsey were recruiting him. And I also don’t think Barnes is a DT, so he wouldn’t be coached by Haggins.
Fire Eliot!!!
It’s all Eliot’s fault. When Barnes saw we took a little guy from Rice to coach DEs, bam! He decommitted.
We're getting smoked?
little dramatic there
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Only slightly =) But if this class doesn’t improve soon…
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
We have about 8-9 open slots to fill before NSD
have a little faith and let the new coaches get in these kids’ homes before you jump off a ledge.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not going to “jump of the ledge”…but I guess my expectations were just to high after the Urban debacle. I honestly thought that would give us every opportunity to land a Top 5-10 class (at least). Instead…I like UF’s class better than any they’ve ever had…perhaps even better than ’06 (as a defensive-minded guy). They absolutely loaded up…and it was just what their doctor order.
I do agree…I do need to “get over it” though =)
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I expected FSU to land a Top 10 class and UF to not land the undisputed #1 class in the nation.
You still think FSU will be in the Top 10? I’d guess closer to 12-15.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
really?
because everyone expected them to land the undisputed #1 class before the season, and after a 7-6 year, nobody expected FSU to be top 10…
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of people expected Dec 26 and all of the coaching attrition at UF to have some impact. It had none. Instead they’re signing one of their very best ever.
PS Expectations got higher with FSU once we put our staff together. I don’t think expecting to be Top 10…as a Fla school with a ton of tradition and great facilities….is that much of a stretch. Top 15 should be a slam dunk every year.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Um...
it had none? Leff Luc, my friend.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure what that refers to. Luc is a stud…I’m more pumped about that kid than anyone in this class…by far.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Luc was all UF pre staff shakeup for the Gators...
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Okay. It was always my understanding that he was a Nole fan. No doubt, he was a big win.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
He grew up a 'Nole
but people inside our program will tell you we had no shot if strong had stayed.
Where were we at the end of the season, pre-announcement? Where are we now? We’ve made up ground.
Recruiting is about relationships and UF had made a lot of those even though the coaches left. The program had made them. But our departed coaches didn’t do shit so they were not made (like with Powell).
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sarcasm?
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, it was a quote I got from the UA game
Maybe he wasn’t being truthful. Someone who worked at rivals wrote him down for saying that he was always going to go to FSU.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
“I expected FSU to land a Top 10 class and UF to not land the undisputed #1 class in the nation.
You still think FSU will be in the Top 10? I’d guess closer to 12-15"
That’s news to me. I remember you calling me out on Warchant after Seminole Showtime because I said FSU would land several elite prospects. Now that I think about it, I had told you I’d get back to you in December. A little late, sorry, but FSU has landed several and is in position for several more.
And I for one believe FSU will finish around 8-10 at the end. Like I said, FSU still has 8-9 spots to fill, while most others are capped out. Plus, USC will drop like a stone.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
"....and it was just what their doctor ordered"
Not to be nitpicky, but I believe their doctor ordered “…low stress activities, reasonable work weeks, more time with family”. Ignored.
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I doubt anything lowered Urban’s anxiety more than this class.
PS He doesn’t have some terminal health issue. He suffers from massive anxiety attacks apparently. That’s why he was so defensive about talking about his “condition”
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Hope
I can hope that Coach Coley. Gran, Stoops, Dawsey can get some of the UF recruits to see that they playing time will be limited and they may be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart…besides UF plays starters on special teams and they really wont see the field..
Doubt it.
I think next recruiting cycle and the ones after are where we will begin to poach recruits from their list.
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 10, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
not unexpected...
Barnes was a waffler anyway. Whose to say he isnt pulling an Elam and is just looking for love from FSU…..
If he’s a prima donna…then we don’t want him, I suppose. But with such a weak DL…we should be talking to that kid every day.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I kinda think all these kids are prima donna's to be honest
They get smoke blown up their rear everyday from everyone. They don’t come down off that “High” until they get on campus and get exposed to equal or superior talent IMO
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Probably true. They certainly aren’t as likeable, overall, as years ago. Heck, they can’t even smile for a camera. It’s as if every one of them is trying to act harder than the next. It does sometimes make me wonder why I put so much time into college football!
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I try to ignore the personalities and just cheer on my squad
The Dunns,Brooks’, and Wadsworths don’t grow on trees. And in the internet era, nor do I expect them too
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
the ridiculous "4 hats on a table" commitment game is the microcosm of that attitude.
I’d seriously rather watch 2Girls1Cup than some of those kids rubbing their hands together and tossing hats around. It’s disgusting. (No hyperbole in this paragraph)
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the hat thing is so lame. “ummm….ummm (picks up different hat)…umm…” It’s embarrassing.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Who's our biggest threat for Jones?
He can be a OLB/DE hybrid if needed. Lemonier is all over the place it seems and his intentions seem to be hard to read
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions
We need to watch Tennessee and Miami for Jones, and he may be visiting UF as well
Lemonier will come down to Auburn, UM and FSU.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
They always have been on the watch lists for him
I’m not worried about Jones or Green.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Guy was a project
Would take a few years for him to contribute.
Wish we still had him but this class will be fine.
Do we still that many on the board? I remember people saying “we’ll be fine” on up until NSD ‘07..so I’m a bit concerned. Jimbo and Co cannot afford to start too slowly. It will put too much pressure on them to have a huge class in ’11.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
This class is light years better than NSD 2007
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sure Luc and Joyner help separate this class from ‘07 so far. And still a ways to go. It’s the DL thing that kills me. Having a halfway decent DL is critical. See Bama.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Watch when the evaluate the Erving film.
Kid is all-state 5A georgia. I happen to believe our coaches have asked that have asked that he not send his film to rivals, or wait until the last second.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think
rivals already has his tapes. He’ll probably be ranked in the next update. 3 star at the worst, high 4 start at best.
Yes, he wasn't going to contribute until his 3rd year most likely
Very, very raw and needs a lot of coaching. If Allen was his position coach here he would have been a bigger bust than Xavier Lee. With Eliot I think he would have turned into a good player but oh well.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think a guy with his athleticism and size would've made an impact prior to his JR year.
I doubt he would redshirt in 2010 if he is on our team.
Not likely
Everyone is overmatched physically on the line as a freshman, the only ones who contribute early are the athletic freaks who ALSO have great technique.
I wouldn’t call Barnes a freak, and his technique is poor.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to bash the guy, I'm pissed that he's gone
I’m just saying, he wasn’t gonna help the 2010 or 2011 teams.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Someone who has an impact is a guy who sees the field and is a solid contributor. If you don’t think he would do that until his 3rd season, I can’t agree.
If you’re saying he wouldn’t have been a “playmaker” type until his 3rd year, then sure.
He wouldn't have been a solid contributer
He is far away from being college ready.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 11, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
As you have seen in a prior post of mine in regards to our DE’s…
I am not a fan of White. Don’t think he sucks but don’t think he’s anything more than a serviceable backup type on a quality team.
Jenkins and Stevens may turn into more than backup types. They have talent (so does White), but they are vastly undersized, imo. Hopefully our new program puts 30 pounds on those guys.
Dawkins is a stud. I like the guy. McAllister could be a good DE. Some (you among them) suggest DT. Who knows. But he would be a 2nd good DE, imo.
Then there’s Hicks, who is a complete unknown. And obviously Cummings (who, I guess could be a DT, too, if he puts on enough weight) should be good as well.
Conservatively speaking, this is what we have at DE in 2010:
Good (1) – Dawkins
Serviceable (2-4) – Jenkins, White, Cummings (being a freshman and all), McAllister (since he’s yet to really play)
Unknown (1) – Hicks
To me, that’s “no one”.
I think you way underestimate Jenkins
but I guess we’ll see. White can put on a lot of weight, while if Jenkins adds 10-15 he will be a god starter on the weakside.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
not a pipe dream
If he qualifies, he’s a Nole.
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like he got a suite
ON MY OFFICIAL VISIT TA CLEMSON..JUST GOT BACK FROM DA CLUB WIT DA NUMBA 1 D END N DA NATION..DAEQUON BOWERS..NIGGA COOL…DAY GAVE ME A SUITE ALL 2 MA SELF…DAMN DZ DA LIFE
is that real?
from facebook or somewhere?
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
yes from facebook
for some reason, I bet this doesn’t stick if we really want Tavares…
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully
They have some one in mind who might scaring some of these guys away.
It is not totally bare.
Demonte McAllister and Dawkins can play there if they have to
McCloud
Moses McCray
Jaccobi McDaniels
Darious Cummings
Cameron Erving
Damion Jacobs
Maybe Deas, Maybe Young?
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
We better really want him.
We only have 1 DE worth a damn on our roster (Dawkins). McAllister was injured. White stinks. Jenkins and Stevens are OLB types. Jackson has never played and is always injured. I forget the name of the guy that’s a former player’s son, but he is a complete unknown, too.
Lemonier
Barnes
Cummings
are an absolute must, imo.
Agree
However, I think that stevens really came on and provided an excellent pass rushing threat at the end of the season, even though I want a better every down kinda guy, he is a terrific presence and made an impact late in the season.
I feel like the DT starters are solid, McDaniel was great for a freshman, but the depth isn’t fantastic, but they can still be a good unit. DE with stephens as a pass rusher on 3rd down, and Mcallister and Dawkins starting the other downs would be a very good unit with proper coaching.
I really think we need MORE dline ability, but we are adaquete at the starters and have some servicable depth who will develop well into the future and become solid contributors, and they can do some good this season just to throw bodies at them
Wonder if we are being negative recruited here?
It’s been said that football players aren’t the brightest, so here’s a made up conversation:
Kevin Steele: “FSU’s D hasn’t been good since I left. We’re going to have one of the top D’s in the country next year. Bowers is going to make money in the NFL. You will to. Did you see Arizona’s D against Nebraska? And your new coach is going to be coming from Rice (throws out Rice’s record)…FSU is not getting this turned around anytime soon. Other coaches from SMU, and ECU?”
Barnes: Dam diz suite is da schiznit.
Sure
I would negatively recruit us. But I think some of the existing DE’s will get it done this year.
Good DE coaching doesn't make Jenkins or Stevens bigger.
It doesn’t make White less soft.
Doesn’t heal Jackson or McAllister’s injuries.
I think Dawkins could be a very good DE. McAllister, based on hs, would appear to be one, too. The rest on our current roster are solid contributor/backup types.
viloria will take care of size, coaching will take care of technique, most* of them have talent
*I say most, keeping in mind that some d1 guys like mangum don’t have talent
I bet it could make white less soft
the kid works extremely hard. Watch him get bigger and a lot better.
McAllister is a DT imo.
Pete Carroll
said Demonte was the best 3 tech he had ever seen at that age!!! Though i want to see him at end!!!
What's the point in cutting a kid after his junior year?
That’s what we would be doing if we cut him at the end of next year (3rd year sophomore right now). I say give him spring ball and if he doesn’t show anything, tell him then. Well, hopefully everyone that is on the fence was told in December, “You have two choices. You can either transfer out now at the break or you can stick around for spring ball and allow us to evaluate you. If you won’t be a contributor you can transfer in the summer.”
I hope we pass...I don't care how bad we need DE's
Based on what he said after his visit to S.Carolina and his latest quotes. He sounds like trouble!
by Noletorious on Jan 11, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Highly, highly unlikely with the way our DL recruiting is going
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Oops ... Alarming to you
Do NOT look at Avis Commack’s facebook … dude writes just like that and likes to bitch about life in Tally too much
by Cigar City Nole on Jan 10, 2010 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Kinda supports your "theory" on d-lineman intelligence
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
One of our star DL spelled the word "predict" wrong on his facebook today
by tdchrisdavis on Jan 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jacobbi found and returned my wallet to me yesterday
and it had alot of money in it.
Not all players are thugs. Jeff Luc called me sir, and Dionte Allen was very nice, but soft spoken. None of the players i’ve encountered have had any attitude problems that were blatent except Wade.
by Njfoshizzy on Jan 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a thug either, but I don't know if I would've returned.....
your wallet if it had money in it. LOL. Jacobbi’s a saint
Very similar to a letter Daryl Bush wrote on hotel ledger paper and mailed to his mom while visiting Clemson.
I made that up, but it’s funny to imagine.
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 12:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am embarrassed that my University would want/admit anybody that spoke like that.
Sounds like a gangster thug. I really am starting to dislike college football.
Time
Can’t expect to compete with UF in terms of recruiting in one year. Saban was 6-6 with a loss to FSU in his first year. Probably a lot of stupid out of control Bama fans were calling for his head after year one. Give Jimbo and Co to rebuild the program. Just relax.
by MJC88 on Jan 10, 2010 12:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
True…but then he signed the #1 and #2 classes. I don’t expect that to happen…but that’s a BIG reason why they beat UF and won the NC.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
dude, that is a lot better program
when FSU and UF are at their best, UF is better. They simply have inherent advantages that we don’t. Not sure what you want.
We’ve absolutely made up ground on them since the end of the season.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Huh? I definitely don’t agree with this! FSU’s best all-time teams would have eaten the gators’ best for lunch!
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
and that was a long time ago
before UF realized how to use their resources.
Bobby had a losing record all-time v. Miami and UF. FSU was good when one of those two was down because of probation or recovering from probation.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well both of those programs also got a lot of wins due to stuff they DID do while on probation. The UF record from about ‘80-’86 should be wiped fromt he record books, for instance.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree
Take the best Gators team. And they would get crushed by the 99 team, let alone the 93 team. It is not even close. And Bobby had a winning record against UF up untill Urban Meyer showed up. I dont think you can compare this last 6 years to what Bowden did in the 90’s.
LOSING record against UF and Miami
and a TERRIBLE record when either program wasn’t on or 2 years removed from major probation.
Was UF on probation for the entire 90's and early 00's?
Otherwise Bobby had a pretty nice record against them (prior to Meyer). Obviously Miami kicks his a** even with their probation years.
Early 90's
How do we get to discount him v. Meyer?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
the Bama program was in about the same state as FSU when Saban took it over. We actually beat them head-to-head. The Tide’s glory years were a distanct memory and most kids didn’t care about it. Saban made it happen.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
and Bama has a lot more advantages than Auburn
We’re Auburn, UF is Bama, essentially, to a lesser extent.
You’re not considering program. It’s program.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I just didn’t understand the “UF at its best” comment. Back in the 90s…the roles were reversed for the most part. 2 outta 3 years…we got better kids.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
I will never say or buy we are Auburn
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Auburn has a much better atmosphere I'll tell you that
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Really, I love FSU. Quite frankly…I get tired of the constant “in your face” atmosphere at places like UF, UT, Auburn, etc.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I mean game atmosphere
No way in hell would I live in Auburn, AL
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
comeone FSUn
haha, Auburn is a great place, now there is no way in hell i’d live in T-town(bama) haha couldn’t help put but a little of the rivalry in there. FSU has so much potential to be like an SEC school when it comes to atmosphere, but you have to rebuild the culture. I will say a big thing for auburn and bama are all those people who have never set foot on campus giving their money to the schools along with the alumi base.
Right
and not to disrespect the state, for which I have tremendous respect (lots of hard working folks making a living), but there isn’t much else to do here if you don’t hunt or fish (I do). There are no pro teams, limited beach access, etc.
So true
Grew up in Florence, then my 4 yrs at Auburn before commissiong into the AF and being sent to Cali and now North Dakota. I mean high school programs in alabama have facilities better then alot of colleges(small ones of course). I remember growing up and people wanting to stop and talk to dad for an hour about the upcomming season(he’s a high school coach now). I will say this though, the young kids that don’t know him and ask him where he played and he is able to tell them about Leon High and what they accomplished in the 70s then him playing at FSU before going to UNA their eyes light up at the fact that their coach spent time at FSU.
i am not understanding this line
there is nothing to do in tally
nothing to do in hogtown either
lsu has new orleans & pro teams
agreed
I grew up an FSU fan(since my father played there). But went to school at Auburn. Many weeks I would sell my AU student ticket and travel down to T-town for the FSU games. the atmosphere at auburn is 100x better then FSU, as it breaks my heart to say. Even when Auburn played cup cake teams it was still so loud car alarms would go off.
Can't agree completely
I see alot of this but I went to the FSU-UF game and sat in the rich alumni seated area for the gators around the 45 and I sat almost the whole game, as did my whole area. They have their old people too. I’ll agree the stadium helps ALOT, and overall UF still have better atmosphere and more vocal fans, it is more of a result of current attitudes in my opinion.
I lived in Gville during the whole Zook time, pre and post, and they lost alot of their edge when they weren’t dominating. It will calm down once their unusual run ends. And I for one, feel it will calm down.
True
But even in the beginning, I was sitting, the pregame wasn’t nearly as bad as in the 90’s but that was before Gville made an effort to calm fans down, because it used to be brutal.
So a rabid fanbase/atmosphere doesn't go hand in hand with money?
I’m just trying to understand more clearly.
You think we won’t ever be an elite program money-wise, but think we can/will change the atmosphere around? Or were just saying, “Yes, Fisher will try to change it”?
Not to put words in his mouth
But I think he means Fisher will change it for the better just not to the extent of elite progams
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
why not?
Would fisher settle for anything less than elite? According to his process oriented philosophy, the process and structure he is putting in place now should produce an elite level progrom
Ah
But the process should produce the funds!!! Or is that wishful thinking
Again, not to the level of elite schools
Our boosters contributed ~14 mil this year, UF’s boosters gave 45mil in 2008.
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Fair comparison? No.
In 2008 we were coming off back to back 7-6 seasons. They were 2 years removed from a national title and expecting to make another title game that season.
I don't want to say never
But we will not see booster money like that for a long long time, different demographics
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
the fact that Tuscaloosa makes Tally seem like New York plays a role in the fan support
There is NOTHING to do in most SEC towns (save Vandy) other than hang on every yard of their respective school. I think FSU’s fanbase fits the ACC culture…more degrees less bama bangs.
I am saying if you take UF and max their potential and FSU and Max it's potential
advantage UF in a big way.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
More money, bigger trust, more alumni yes
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Gainesville is a drag to a lot of kids…that’s a big minus.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Its 4 years out of their life
More positives there than negatives
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Really? I hated it on my visit (as a HS student). It’s why I chose FSU. It was a while back…but I just didn’t like Gainesville at all. Of course, it was around the time of the Danny Rollins murders…which really made the place seem wicked. I still get the creeps when i go to hogtown.
He doesn't get it
He thinks the stuff that mattered in the 90’s matters now and it doesn’t. What UF can offer is immensely better than what we can offer.
Alright…no need to get surly. What I don’t get is the mentality that FSU is somehow in an eternally hopeless situation and should somehow “pack it in” and accept that UF will win 9 outta 10 forever. I don’t buy that. UF has it’s downsides….and, believe it or not, there are recruits who don’t want to go there.
I agree with you there.
FSUn is just a little overly pessimistic, but the issues he is pessimistic over are real.
It's not an attitude, it's an evauation on my part I guess.
One thing we do have going is that inner city kids feel better at FSU.
I dont have a clue why
You are trying to desperately give the Gators props. Its one thing to say ‘ok they have a good this or that,’ and that’s it- but you are arguing this point as if you ran alligator army.
The fact is, these things you guys are arguing over, are opinionated. If it was 100% better at UF hands down, then we wouldn’t have a single commit. The fact is – Some people just like tallanasty over gayville.
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 10, 2010 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The point is to help with this thing called
“Realistic expectations.” Which FSU fans sorely lack.
>>---l>
I certainly did. Maybe it was my job (was the resident dj. at Late Night Library Saturday nights from 99- they closed.
Tallahassee was a blast. Yes it is currently a shadow of what it was but that doesnt mean it can’t get back to the way it used to be.
class of 99
TN-
where discerning FSU fans gather.
these things you guys are arguing over, are opinionated. If it was 100% better at UF hands down, then we wouldn’t have a single commit.
How many of our commits would they take?
I think this is slightly unfair
We both went almost completely defensive, and we needed tremendous size upgrades on the Dline. On the positions where we werent desperately inferior, we won or tied at LB and DB. We needed CB, we got a great CB class, we didn’t need as much safety help, they did. They got more safeties.
Our LBs are better in my opinion (i think we get Jones)
Luc
Joyner
Smith
Cummings
for sure
Johnson
Harris
Brooks
Abrams
maybe (really don’t know, but could argue they are equals to one guy at their position in UF’s class)
Green
Jones
Lemonier
Barnes (if he recommits)
Brown (if he decommits)
Mitchell
Even if you discount the middle grouping, if we get half of the 3rd group to go along with the full top group, that’s 7 guys. That’s pretty good considering.
I tend to agree with most of that.
Barnes of the last group but i agree.
Now, who would they swap out of their class for it.
I personally couldn't say with a great deal of certainty.
I haven’t followed most of their recruits.
-Possibly any of our CBs for Riggs.
-Possibly Johnson for Patton.
-Green doesn’t really have a contemporary on their list.
-Jones or Smith for Ajagbe.
-No contemporary for Luc.
-Won’t say I’d take Abrams over Elam, but I was impressed with Abrams film months ago when I watched it. I wouldn’t rate him as the best player in the state or a 5 star (Elam), but no one will believe I thought this a week ago when he was ours, too. Didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to be an a**. Go figure.
-Cummings and Barnes over Trail (unless they want that BTW pipeline). I really like Barnes’ film. I like it more than Lemonier’s.
-I said Brown simply because they already took him, so of course they’d want him. If they get that USC kid, maybe they’d rather have the USC kid. If they get the DeLand kid, maybe they’d rather have Brown (none of my own opinions on this one).
I hate to do this
But take a gander at the slides. Especially the coaches offices and plaza
http://www.gatorzone.com/facilities/?venue=gateway_gallery&sport=footb&dir=plaza
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
However, I don’t believe those facilities are nearly as difficult to replicate, in my opinion we just don’t maximize our strengths at all right now and UF is doing it well, however their strengths do not outweight ours that much. Their finances are undeniable, because we have a 3-1 girl to guy ratio, who marry UF or FSU grads but that shrinks our donor base greatly, since women typically wouldn’t pick if they donate to a school. BUT money isn’t everything, there are many, many factors that equate into the decision that I think someone with a difference value system would favor. I think you look at the money a little too much.
Many factors go into what makes programs great, and we have many advantages to look for in the future. Our law school will top UF’s next year. Our medical school is quickly rising. Our business school is gaining ground, film school is groundbreaking, UF’s academics have shifted downwards recently and FSU is making up ground which provides more finances for FSU to feed off of. I have more examples but this post is getting a little long, but we have better girls,town, nfl success, and we have a very good coaching staff in my opinion, and I think Meyer will struggle with the staff attrition more than you do, as well as the drop in players, because their current players are not fitting their offensive system very well, and they have been shut down multiple times for the first time, and it looks to get worse.
Good points
While I think the grad school stuff is somewhat overstated because people already have their school picked out pre-professional school.
good post but...
“we have a 3-1 girl to guy ratio”
this isn’t correct. FSU is pretty close to 50-50 these days (slight edge to women…as is the case with many schools these days)
don't know about the law school "rankings"
ours has been better than theirs for some time. a significant component of the rankings is the rating given to a school by judges and practitioners. uf’s law school has been around longer and they take two full enterence classes every year (one class beginning in august & the other beginning in january) while fsu only takes one class / yr (beginning in august). so the turds graduate twice as many. fsu’s facilities, professors, published articles, moot court & mock trial teams, alumni giving rate, and other factors surpass uf’s (and have for a while) It’s hard to push nat’l rankings. we have to gain substantial advantages in other areas to overcome the ratings by current practitioners & judges. i don’t doubt that it will, just sayin i don’t know how quick that will happen.
You are correct.
Our Law School has literally made a huge jump in the US News Rankings the past decade. That’s mainly because the “peer ratings”, which you were talking about, seem to lag the actual quality of the school by several years.
Almost threw up when I saw this BS
I coach buddy of mine said he was gonna send me pics of Bama’s fac. Don’t think I’ll bother to look because this answers enuff
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
And to this point
recruits on the whole are the most materialistic people I have ever met, so stuff like this really resonates with them. They trust that when you have money, you the program will make them succeed. Most of them are very poor and they flock to the ostensibly rich programs.
Like I was told by a high school coach this season
“Kids like the show” It’s true and I will never forget it. Private (high)schools do it all the time too
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo
when you’re so poor you put ketchup on your green beans because your body is so craving calories… that stuff matters a ton.
What about our facilities won't allow our players to physically develop properly?
I’m talking Fisher-era nutrition and strength and conditioning, not Bobby era.
Is our weight room substandard?
Media room?
Locker room?
Practice fields? Do most SEC schools have indoor facilities?
Training room?
No indoor practice facility
And UF’s guys hang out at their football facility because it is so nice and fun. When your players are there, big brother is watching. They won’t drink all the time like our OLine does. Can’t smoke much weed in the football facility.
I don’t think our weight room is substandard, no. I’m pretty happy with it and don’t have any suggestions to change it because I am not an S&C expert.
How many SEC teams have an indoor facility?
I really don’t know.
And you’re talking about a big player lounge/rec room type area at UF?
Wonder if we could make some sort of lounge
at the north endzone. It could be a combo player lounge (during the week)/recruiting suite (during games)…
I didn’t realize I had to stay on hear all the time? What’s the deal…we were having a friendly discussion…and now it’s some kind of crappy argument.
That plaza is pretty cool but not all that noteworth, IMHO. The stadium already looks dated. Definitely not classic architecture like Doak.
PS I realize that this has minimal impact on recruiting. I just think the overall visual impact as you approach Doak is 100x better than BHG.
PS The offices and rooms inside look very good (missed that on first pass). I was just talking about the overall sports campus of UF from the outside (which probably matters less). As someone who appreciates the outdoors and good architecture more than a pretty conference room or flat screen TV. Their plaza is pretty generic.
Recruits care about the game experience inside the stadium, otherwise they would hate Tennessee, Bama, and UF
IMO.
And yeah, the outside of our stadium is the best int he world.
I agree that the overall “visual” impact of the FSU sports complex (Doak, Dick, plazas & practice/band fields) probably doesn’t matter much to most recruits. And I do think that the “insides” need improvement. I guess I was just taking pride in what FSU has…whether they admit it or not…gators walking around Doak often have a “wow, this is pretty awesome looking” look on their faces. And the thing I really love about it…is that it’s a classic look that will hold up over the years and decades.
Agree here
the outside facade of Doak is second to none as far as I’m concerned. Gorgeous structure.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
I agree...Doak has to have an impact when your walking up to it or driving up to it for the first time.
I never get tired of seeing it.
DOAK SOLD GREG REID
by 3rdandManageable(VicVanBuren) on Jan 10, 2010 5:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Then they'll continue to have money?
I know you’ve read multiple of my comments in this thread pertaining to this topic. I’ve stated my thoughts quite a few times on here.
Bud we are going to have to get you out of Alabama and back to Florida
You are scaring me
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Doc
go to a game.
It isn’t even close.
WVU-Auburn was better than most UF-FSU atmospheres at Doak.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tallahassee itself is a big plus over hogtown
I am looking for a better atmosphere this year.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
So, in your opinion, is there no hope? I mean…that’s pretty dark commentary..almost sound un-fixable.
As disappointed as I’ve been in FSU…I still absolutely love it. I’d never feel stuck with supporting something I didn’t like!
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
my opinion is that at our best
we should consistently compete for the ACC championship (like win the Atlantic side 7 of 10 years) and occasionally beat UF, and I’d say that if we had Saban. The damage done over the last decade cannot be overcome, the built in advantages of the other programs are now too great.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
FSU just has to get back to winning football games
The rest will take care of itself. BB did a lot of damage no doubt
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Fisher is doing all that is humanely possible, indoor facility case in point
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 10, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I completely disagree that the advantages cannot be overcome...
When we put together a plan with our fundraising like the plan we have now with our team, those advantages will diminish. I know it’s tough to stare up the mountain of $$$ and influence UF has and think that we could never have that. That is not the case. Now we start building our own mountain. I know it’s not the job of TN to push booster donations, so I’ll say something. I am a booster, and encourage everyone here to give also. Wanna help the team out, wanna help us get our own mountain? You can be a booster for as little as $5 a month! You don’t have to write 6 figure checks to make a difference. I love FSU, and this is what I could do. You can too. Visit http://seminole-boosters.fsu.edu/community/Page.aspx?pid=600 to find out more. (Sorry if this post is against the community guidelines. I looked but didn’t see anything that would discourage this post)
"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath
If we were in the SEC
would we be like an Arkansas or an Auburn?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Jan 10, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I dont buy that.
The way I see it, if we would have had a plan ready for Bowden’s retirement 6 years ago then we would be about like LSU is now. We may not have been the juggernaut that we once were but I think if we had at least a halfway competent staff we could have perpetually stayed in the top 15 all those years.
And Auburn is about on par with UF – all time – as a program. They at least have gone undefeated a time or two! Granted, most of their tradition is older than UF’s…which is very recent.
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
stop using all-time
and use “current and ability for the future”, and you’ll see what I am getting at.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe that. We won the NC first (93) and better (99) than they ever have. I honestly think Tally will become a bigger and bigger asset to FSU as the years and decades roll by. Gainesville won’t. And they’ll have to spend more and more time fighting USF and UCF for recruits. We can lock down our part of the world. The future is bright!
by PoseidoNole on Jan 10, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Again
that was before programs understood how to play big money college football.
Our recruiting is going great. Jimbo’s 1st two classes have been excellent for us. We’ve been 7-6 for 3 of the last 4 seasons.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
With schollie limits and coaching being such a big factor…UF doesn’t enjoy a big enough advantage to completely dominate us forever…if that’ws what you’re saying. FSU has a lot more going for it than that. We hit the national stage earlier, have a legendary all-time coach, have a gorgeous stadium (much more impressive outside), are located in the capital city, are part of a more diverse community, have much cooler uniforms, etc!
You think we are going to be better than UF because we have a nicer stadium and cooler uniforms?
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
stadium atmosphere is horrible
even back when were good, the Doak’s atmosphere was pathetic compared to other stadium’s at their best. It’s not how the stadium looks.
And hitting the national stage earlier doesn’t mean shit because those kids weren’t even born.
yeah tear it down and build one that traps the sound
and don’t have shitty alumni who sit the whole game.
At Bama and Auburn, old folks stand. At FSU, they either don’t attend or sit.
People care about football at the schools SOM mentioned. Not at FSU. They just “like” football. We saw that with the decade long fiasco we had.
Lets be realistic
Lol, i completely agree with the notion that our atmosphere is horrible. I remember sitting at games, screaming till i about passed out while the guy next to me is sitting and barely made a peep the whole game. I cant remember how often id watch a game on TV, and the crowd sounded more like a crowd at a golf spectacle than a football game, and the announcer would say something to the effect of “The crowd is just out of it.” But i dont think we can actually tear down the current stadium. I think its a culture change that Jimbo is talking about.
I dont think a change in atmosphere is out of the picture
Its going to come. Jimbo needs time…a lot of it. Jimbo is keen enough to realize our atmosphere is dead, and with him being in the SEC a few years, i’m sure he knows what needs to be done. I dont know how he’s going to do it, but when he says he’s going to change the “culture of FSU football” im inclined to believe it.
Even during our prime run
The “electric atmospheres” at Doak were largely limited to the UF and Miami games where both teams were highly ranked. Total culture change is required to make normal conference games even sniff that type of aura.
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 3:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I hate agreeing with this. HATE IT
But its true, I remember being at the penn state bowl game and had people telling me to sit down. IT WAS A BOWL GAME.
Also, whenever I sit in the alumni section, all sitting. I would love to see a culture change, but that is identifying the problem, I dont have the solutions.
They have the same problem at places like Texas, Nebraska and Michigan. I guess we have to be careful what we wish for. Loud obnoxious fans are great about standing up and yelling during a game. But there’s a downside!
what if they just built
a 40 fot high wall all the way around the stadium at the top. to trap the sound. i agree that doak is just not loud enough. i went to the clemson game this year and it was deafening. it really is the actual structure that needs tweeked. maybe jimbo can hire an acoustical engineer.
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
TN is the biggest & best cfb blog anywhere with the most participation of any school. don't tell me our fans can't make some noise.
the southern folk around tally are not inherently different than those around mobile or tuscaloosa or knoxville
I dont get debbie downers...??
I can’t believe you run this site and you are so pesimistic about everything noles Bud. It seems we got EVERYTHING we needed to build a solid future – amazzzzzinng staff, great recruiting class, and the program in itself under Jimbo should completely change us around.
A winning team changes ALL-its the one formula that has never/will never change. I work for a pro team (though it is baseball) and I have never seen the day where winning hasn’t boosted fan support, money, and other intangible aspects. Once we start winning…ALL of your concerns will be taken care of – fan support, atmosphere, and booster money.
There’s no reason to throw the Noles under the bus, and just give up on the future and say we can never overcome anything. Jimbo is dedicating everything he has to turn this thing around and make it a power house, and I’m all about drinkin his kool aid
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can’t believe you run this site and you are so pesimistic about everything noles Bud.
We seem to do pretty well allowing all opinions.
It seems we got EVERYTHING we needed to build a solid future – amazzzzzinng staff, great recruiting class, and the program in itself under Jimbo should completely change us around.
Agreed, but disagree on where we can go, which is what this thread is discussing and apparently what is angering you.
A winning team changes ALL-its the one formula that has never/will never change. I work for a pro team (though it is baseball) and I have never seen the day where winning hasn’t boosted fan support, money, and other intangible aspects. Once we start winning…ALL of your concerns will be taken care of – fan support, atmosphere, and booster money.
Does your pro team think they can consistently compete with NY or Boston if they are a mid-market squad?
There’s no reason to throw the Noles under the bus, and just give up on the future and say we can never overcome anything. Jimbo is dedicating everything he has to turn this thing around and make it a power house, and I’m all about drinkin his kool aid
I’d only trade Fisher for a select few coaches in the country (Urban, Saban, etc). But Jimbo can’t change the inherent, program specific factors.
why would uf's fans care and not fsu's?
solution: find more trailer park people in the panhandle that can get drunk, pay $100/seat, who want to stand and do the warchant? is rich trailer park people the answer?
acoustics are a big deal. part of the reason i chose fsu was classroom acoustics. i couldn't hear anything at all at uf
they do make a BIG difference in the stadium atmosphere
Sorry but I disagree with this.
I lived on High rd. from 94-99 and Game day way electric. Doak was loud even in my front yard. Tallahassee has been and can be great again. Also yes I have been to other stadiums. Ive been to games evrywhere from SoCal to Hogtown and Tally in its heyhad was awsome.
class of 99
To what other stadiums have you been?
Have you been to Bama, Tennessee, Auburn, LSU, UF, Clemson? if so, who were they playing?
Sorry Bud...its all about winning
I went to Bama from 80-84. The fans were notoriously apathetic from years of success. The crowd was about as bad as it has been a FSU. It was sit, sit , sit, golf clap, clap, clap, unless it was Auburn or Tennessee.
FSU’s problem is that the design of the stadium directs sound up and out like a megaphone. I bet if you were in a blimp about 100 above Doak it would be loud as hell.
Once we start winning and the OLD FOGEYS die, we can get a better crowd. Also we have very few good “Cheers” to get the crowd going and our pregame SUCKS.
you would think that FSU having one of the best theatrical schools in the USA we could get them to help us with pregame entertainment.
Do you think FSU could touch Bama's crowd when they are both playing a big game?
I don’t.
But we can improve a lot.
I believe he is referring to home games against big opponents, not neutral sites.
www.Tomahawknation.com
I thought the Jacksonville atmosphere was ..meh?
same as Doak. It gets tough being the only person screaming while the Noles are on D.
Don't
You think with more success the fans excitement will increase and give people more of a reason to cheer? I’m impressed by our fan support with our 7-6 records. You get what you earn..
Once we start winning more, I feel more fans will go and the ones who will want to be there will cheer alot more. We just don’t give too much to cheer about right now. We will.
That is purely a function of having the right people, willing to write checks
and DEMAND to be the best. There is no magical barrier or time warp that uf has crossed and is barring FSU from ever entering again. uf does have some advantages but they are not permanent barriers to FSU competing on the same stage. Hopefully when you are making millions of dollars in the legal profession you can be one of the people with vision and commitment to help put FSU on an equal footing with uf. It seems like you definitely have a good grasp on what needs to be done.
EXACTLY!
on a offical visit last year, they set us with the student section and we were asked to sit down on more than one occasion but lets ALL remember we are in the BEGINNING of the PROCESS. We are WAY WAY WAY behind what major programs are offering recruites. Give Jimbo the time and support the process and we will get there!
The atmosphere was great the 2nd half.
It was awful the first half because Weatherford should sell used cars.
Bud, again, I am guessing your experience with Bama football has just been since you have been there since you started law school?
Because your experience with Bama football is solely based on the last few years. Bryant Denny Stadium (BDS) was traditionally a bowl stadium like DCS and sat about 60,000. The fans had been spoiled FOREVER and their apathy and the acoustical aspects of the stadium made it seem like a morgue at times. I have been going to games there since I was a child until I left Tuscaloosa in 1988. The RECENT additions to the stadium (the decks) are what have kept the noise in the stadium and the RECENT commitment to winning games have made a crowd that was not used to winning have hope and want to stand up and cheer. They also have a great pregame program..ALL of which is relatively new. Please dont be under the illiusion that what you see in Tuscaloosa IS REMOTELY like what it was just 5-6 years ago. That is all new like a rebirth or renaissance if you will.
I agree
I see it as a business, and I feel we just were behind in the trend, but with Jimbo’s insights and commitment to changing our culture, I feel we can adjust and catch up rather quickly. remember Burt Reynolds put us ahead of everyone else in Jerseys back in the day, and for a while we were the innovators. We will recover as long as we are commited to doing so, and I believe we are. We just need certain people in place to get us to that level. I can tell you Gainesville also did a similar transformation. They were always ridiculously vocal, but they certainly died down tremendously with Zook making their expecations lower.
I have to disagree with you on that one...
The first game I played there, my skin was crawling. I mean it doesn’t help that I grew up an FSU fan, lol.
Horrible was too strong
I just mean too often we have 75K attending and 40K sitting.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
UF doesn't use Gainesville
It seems they use their resources on the facilties and the places were the athletes spend the lion’s share of their time. If it was all about the atmosphere of the city, Miami would win 10-12 games a year in their sleep
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
With a new coach…they will again. Funny how time changes. UF was very mediocre for a long, long time. And has recently as just a few years ago. And they’ll go back to that again, at some point. Things always, always change.
Miami will return. Maybe not next year or the one after…but they’ll be back. In a different way than most of the elite programs…they have a ton going for them (if they get the right coach).
I think they are on the way down
Their recruiting is falling apart and their program is a joke.
6 4*’s
17 3*’s
2 2*’s
That’s 25 and they do not have much shot at getting any more studs.
I stand by what I said.
Not being consistently bad doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily be consistently good. Wikipedia says they spent $15M on football in 07-08. Obviously that won’t cut it if you want an elite program. But by simply being in Miami, they will never go 3-9, 4-8, 2-10, 5-7 in consecutive years unless they’re on some tremendous probation.
Sticks
You don’t think they pull Mccartney? I know a month or so they were looking good for him.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 10, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Can't wait for the story on duh ewwww!
Some posters on this site proclaim to not have hate for that program when we are their biggest rival. I hate them with a passion. They took way too much from us in the early 90’s
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
And by the way
since expansion, we are winning our side of the division at a 20% clip. I think we can win 70% of the time.
In that same time frame, we are 0-5 against UF. I’d like to be 1-4 or 2-3 and think we can occasionally win one.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
would anyone be unhappy with winning our side 70% of the time and beating UF once in a while?
Perhaps some people can’t root for a team that has little to not shot of winning the MNC
No, I've been consistent in that assessment
you can ask the guys who’ve been here for a long time.
Not saying it is impossible, but that I find it unlikely.
What about Michigan? They’ve got a much better school than UF…a lot older tradition…bigger stadium…and they stink!
Nope, they lack the ability to recruit nationally and aren't committed to football.
Their stadium is bigger but not louder, and their atmosphere sucks.
Just look at the outrage over RichRod practicing his players longer than the rules allow
or how he cut some players! See outrage for that at one of the schools listed above?
Like FSU (in a different way)…Michigan will be back.
I heard the same crap about Miami in the early 00’s…that they’d be great forever…the City is too big of a draw…recruits love it…so much recent tradition…blah blah blah. I don’t buy the “UF will be on top of teh world forever” argument.
They may not be on top ALL the time
They are just better equipped to quickly reverse any downtrends in performance they may experience
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think money is the reason we are down now?
I don’t. And I hope you don’t, either.
We all know the reason why we are down now, and I don’t think money contributed to that.
Yes... sort of
I wish it was as easy as a coaching change. Being unable/ willing/ unaware of the need to leverage program wealth into program strength for a decade has placed FSU in what I feel is an insurmountable hole when we talk about reaching UF’s level. That’s not to say FSU can’t sometimes beat UF and 0-6 is completely unacceptable, but yes, I do think money is one of the major reasons.
So, no.
Money isn’t the reason we’re in this hole. We’re in this hole because of a decade of poor decisions unrelated to money, which have helped place us in the hole?
That’s my belief. Will we ever have Texas money? No. Do we need to? No. If we have top 15 money, we can compete.
No, money is the #1 reason IMO
I wish it was as easy as a coaching change. Being unable/ willing/ unaware of the need to leverage program wealth into program strength for a decade has placed FSU in what I feel is an insurmountable hole when we talk about reaching UF’s level. That’s not to say FSU can’t sometimes beat UF and 0-6 is completely unacceptable, but yes, I do think money is one of the major reasons.
No, money is the reason you think we're in the hole.
I’ve yet to see you say how a lack of money put us in this hole. It would’ve been hard for UF to part ways with Spurrier, too, after 25 years of great success, followed by a slow downturn to relative mediocrity.
Even if they make the move a year or two earlier than us due to less revenue coming in, “we” still would’ve won a national title or two in the meantime (if the roles were reversed).
I’ll agree that while dealing with the Bowden fiasco we lost track of the importance of money but can’t concede defeat without even a couple years of trying to get there.
We didn't have the cash in the 2000's
to do exactly what they did, but if we could have realized the need the hole might not have been insurmountable.
Again, you can’t say that I do not believe it was Bowden and funds that led to the problems.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
You think it's insurmountable.
I don’t.
I do acknowledge the hole the past decade dug us, however. Couple of ACC Titles and BCS Bowls and that hole gets filled in some.
Michigan is absolutely committed to football. They just spent tens of millions upgrading their stadium, paid top dollar for a big name coach (oops), etc. It doesn’t mean they made the RIGHT decisions…but to say they aren’t committed to football just is not correct.
no, they have academics get in the way
They do not have the football attitude. They are stuck in the collegial era.
Just look at the outrage over RichRod practicing his players longer than the rules allow or how he cut some players! See outrage for that at one of the schools listed above?
They have conflicting priorities.
The "Flagship" schools already run CFB now
Thats who’s been winning for the past decade (exception: Miami)
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Sample size issues here?
And I never thought of LSU as wealthy, but, I suppose they may be, sports-wise. Alex Box Stadium (or w/e it’s called) is top of the line for baseball.
In the BCS era
10 of the 12 winners had significantly more funds than us
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
What are the figures?
I know someone, in one of these threads recently linked something that they said listed some stuff pertaining to that, but I have no idea where it is now.
Can’t remember if I said this on here or not, but Wikipedia says Miami spent just over $15M in 07-08 on football. What did we spend?
I thought Florida was spending about $70M on athletics a few years back, so about $40M on football would seem about right. I think we were around $45M on athletics, so I’d assume $25-30M on football. If those numbers are wrong, oh well. Just real rough estimates.
But I’m not saying money doesn’t lead to success. I think we can close the gap on money so that the discrepancy between us and the truly elite spenders wouldn’t have much impact.
Send that to the Boosters
Allow them to use it in thier advertising. They should be getting aggresive if this is what is truly the problem. I think that with some more advertising you will get more $$$. I have known more business owners that have been FSU fans than FU fans.
If you can lay it out, I am sure that you could allow them to use it in a direct mail, or email campaign. There are enough FSU folks out there that would not like to see this trend to continue.
A lot of what you are sayig is true, especially the game time atmosphere, I hate going to games they are boring, I hate people telling me to sit down!! Don’t know how you would cahange that, the $ is fixable.
I hope you're right
articles coming on this, so we shall see what they do!
by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's true. You've been saying that for awhile.
And most still disagree completely with you that we won’t ever win another national title, while recognizing that UF does have the foundation to have a consistently dominant program.
I don't believe that personally (That we won't win another NC)
But,I’m kinda stuck to idea of securing wins via the avenue of talent. But now, I have my doubts whether we’ll ever have the resources it takes to gain the necassary talent to win a NC. S**T has changed and other schools were simply better equipped to deal with that evolutionary curve. Being on this site exposed me to that reality
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
With FSU’s rapidly growing alumni base (especially in terms of $$$)…there’s reason for hope. Any outsider looking at Doak vs Ben Hill…would think FSU is the superior program (not that it tells the whole story).
But think about how long that process takes to generate a significant booster...
The long term benefits for generating flocks of lawyers and doctors are high, but i takes a long time to get that returns on that investment.
www.Tomahawknation.com
agreed, but
At least we’re heading in the right direction. We should be able to reap the benefits of the med-school in 10 years.
Haha
A lot of things would have to happen before we could even dream that…. We need a teaching hospital first.
A lot of MD’s who graduate from UF med could care less about sports. I don’t have figures…but I really don’t think that the medical community has a big impact on respective sports teams. Now businessmen and lawyers…definitely.
I agree that the graduates of the specific graduate schools likely have little interestin the undergrad sports.
I think the discussion is referring to producing individuals who graduate from the undergrad schools who enter into professions that are likely to be more lucrative and therefore likely to be larger boosters.
I have little to no interest in sports the grad school that I attended. It wasn’t where I went to undergrad. So you’re right, UF Med grads, if they didn’t attend UF for undergrad aren’t the big boosters.
www.Tomahawknation.com
on the other hand
some of us went to good undergrad schools that have shitty sports programs (uva) and went to grad school at fsu; who do you think we follow now?
but i agree
people who get their undergrad from aschool with a sports program (miami, uf, etc.) do not generally convert to being seminole fans even though they go to grad school at fsu
i believe our Booster base is now between 15 and 16k.
It’s been as high as 20k previously.
Can’t judge a stadium by its cover. And don’t we still owe TONS of money for The University Center renovations?
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is it just that
you think the odds of the rest of our games being W’s (if we begin scheduling a weak out of conference schedule like the rest of the big boys) is so low that we can never run the table again?
I mean, I understand the sentiment and the belief that we cannot compete for titles every year anymore. But I imagine the theoretical team we have that beats UF in some distant year (say, perhaps, 2012) would also have probably won the ACC and the rest of its out of conference games. Is there some other factor contributing to your belief that in this situation we wouldn’t win (or even have a shot at it)?
It's funny how media outlets don't pick up on these type of things
Like after the UM game last year, they were saying we were BOTH back. Not even close for either one of us
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
For instance...
if we win the acc 7/10 years and beat UF 3 out of the 7 years we win the ACC, we could possibly be playing for the MNC 3 out of 10 years. i would take that.
I think its important to note that even if you think UF has distinct advantages, the same advantages that other SEC schools have will make it hard for UF to win the SEC on a regular basis making the path to the MNC about equal to both teams.
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
Yep
I was just about to post the same observation – with that math, we still have a shot to go to the MNC 2-3/10 years. Anyone who isn’t ecstatic with that outlook in this modern age of football – for FSU – is insane.
Lets not forget we play in a game called football....
Where anything can happen on any given Saturday. I think we can compete with UF next year. Our D will not be elite but I think will not lose as many games for us. And with the UF D reloading against as u know one of the top Offense in the country. I am completly sold on the fact that Jimbo can beat urban or his puppet master in Doak next.year. Our toughest game next year is going out to Norman not against UF. I’m ready to give the nation a legitimate ACC national title contender next year. Whose coming with me?
by 3rdandManageable(VicVanBuren) on Jan 10, 2010 5:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don't Agree
Even being pessimistic and everything. Atmosphere? People went to Doak knowing they were gonna get murdered. The bigger, faster, stronger players and 80k+ doing one loud chop and people would piss themselves. I remember on an ABC broadcast Brent Musburger called a whipping of Louisville “just another homecooking for the ’Noles.” I know a decade seems like a long time ago, but seriously it could be worst. We still went to bowl games and had winning season. With the way Jimbo has things going so far, I honestly expect us to catch and surpass UF. it is not some unrealistic goal.
UF has more resources
And they currently maximize them better. It isn’t that we can’t ever beat UF— we just can’t realistically expect to be the better program long term. UF functioning at their highest level > FSU functioning at its highest level.
>>---l>
Exactly
Consitency is the key word and with they money they make they can overcome mistakes whereas we can’t
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I disagree.
More money does not equate to a better program. It just gives more room for error and/or overkill.
And our best (obviously not now, hopefully in a few years) is definitely good enough to compete for national titles.
Well the SEC contract is new...
but they are all SEC schools and voters tend to give the SEC a little benefit too, after the undefeated Auburn situation.
You don't think USC, OSU, and Texas get some "benefit"?
I was wondering how many losses it was going to take to bump USC out of the top 10?
I'm wondering how much the guys we've sent to the NFL give back
either in terms of $$$ or time for fundraising
there’s one area where we (and Miami) should have an advantage over the turds, tide, vols, dogs, cows, condoms, etc.
That is only relevant if you are saying FSU was at it's best during that timeframe.
And you are one of the loudest people to say Bobby really hurt the program. That wasn’t a money issue. It can’t go both ways.
Oh he did hurt the program a ton.
But I don’t believe I said money was not an issue.
There can absolutely be multiple causes.
I don't think you could say money would've been an issue, though.
Not if Bobby made the right hires and we continued to be competitive. If he would’ve asked for improvements he would’ve gotten them.
You're assuming the money would have come.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
You don't think it would have?
I’m talking early 2000’s, if he made good hires and 2001 was only a blip (rebuilding year) and we kept winning, Boosters wouldn’t have given Bobby anything he asked for? We gave his son a plum job and allowed him to keep it before we gave him a nice retirement bonus to leave. We allowed him to make $2.5M/year. We tried getting $30M+ for an indoor facility prior to sh*tting ourselves this season.
Gets back to the idea of our booster base
by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Damien Jacobs predicts 10 wins!
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
The posters on this board need to relax.
All this commit / de-commit stuff is gonna raise your blood pressure. Lets all try and remember a few things this recruiting season:
1.Guys like Barnes were committed to the OLD defensive staff (ie…Andrews, Amato, Allen, etc…) not this one.
2.Jimbo just "layed down the law" at his 1st team meeting. That might not be what some want to hear especially if they were expecting the old staffs lax ways.
3. The new tone of this coaching staff is WAY different now than just one month ago. And was reinforced yesterday with the hiring of the new S&C coach. It sounds like the bar has been raised and more EFFORT will now be expected.
These things will attract a certain kind of player and maybe repel others that were targets of the old staff.
Nap time is over at the Moore Center.
1.Guys like Barnes were committed to the OLD defensive staff (ie…Andrews, Amato, Allen, etc…) not this one.
True, and remember, Barnes was deadset on playing end, not tackle.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I am like some others and I don't really see this guy as a great loss
I would rather have Werner, someone with a motor. Florida would have to look good to him after freezing to death in Connecticut.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Maybe we could introduce him to a RHODES Scholar
AND football player!!
Myron Rolle is our ace in the hole.
no one, and I mean NO ONE, can trump his accomplishments.
You have to go back along way to find another football playing Rhodes scholar.
Chris Joseph
UCLA starting Lineman from 2005-2007 won the rhodes scholarship the same year any Myron won.
because he's in the SEC
during the broadcast it went from “he wants to be a rhodes scholar”…to “he is a rhodes scholar”
Cal Berkley – great academics
Oregon – decent school
There is no comparison between those school in terms of academic prestige or resources. Cal is one of the top schools in the country. Far better than any in the entire Southeast. Oregon is another run-of-the-mill good state U.
PS For what it’s worth….FSU is #102 and OU is #115 is US News ‘10 edition. It’s not the end-all…but is says something.
I have high hopes for the NEW University President
just as I do for the new coacing staff.
That explains a lot right there
We don’t really need ends as bad as tackles. Here is a thought, maybe he heard some good news on Lemonier and decided to book.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Were were looking at him as a tackle?
Because he does not have the frame to put on 50-60 pounds. And that’d just be incredibly stupid on our part. He would be a baller 260-270 lb DE.
No
but someone mentioned him with the DT recruiting and I was saying 1. It’s Dawsey’s guy and 2. He plays DE
if Barnes was committed to Amato and Allen
DAY BE BETTER RECRUITERS DEN DAY SEEMED
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 1:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It aint NSD
All this worrying and complaining, who cares! it isnt NSD yet. Sit back have a cold one and watch playoff football. In the end it could be UF complaining and crying about there so called “commits” jumping the fence AGAIN…
"You guys don't know the difference between a football and a bunch of bananas." John Mckay
Sure its not good but...
i’m just far too excited about all the positive changes as well as good recruits that came in to let this get me down. Its been a long time since I’ve had this much hope for the Noles to really turn things around. Its been 10 years of tearing the program down, I certainly don’t expect Fisher to fix it in a matter of weeks. I’ll give him a month lol
I can't wait...
Typically up here in South Jersey we can only make it to the BC and Maryland away games, but I think we’ve got to get down to Doak this year. Its been far to long since I’ve seen a game there. It just seems like such a cloud has lifted and things are back on track.
Go back in the TN archives and read the articles and comments from Sept. '09
I did yesterday just to remind my self that the world ain’t gonna end with an Elam decommit. Nor Barnes for that matter.
The real funk was late Sept. Early October of 2009!!
Exactly
Back then Ponder could not be compared to Bradford or Colt. Listening to that was worse than listening to BB
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
A plus
We are not sitting around listening to BB talk about parity
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
But there is a way
The ACC will never catch the SEC. So instead of improving the ACC, we need it go get worse. We need to blow out teams because they are worse than they are now to impress voters. That allows health because you pull your starters.
It’s a shell game. Beat bad teams and stay consistently ranked, and then when UF has a down year, beat them and play for the MNC.
But we have to have a pathetic OOC schedule as well. People don’t want to hear it though…
Bad news but the positives for us this recruiting cycle have far outweighed the negatives....It could be way worse at this point.
On another note I really like the attitude that Holmes Onwukaife is bringing in. I hear that is his official was amazing and he had very positive things to say about everything once again. That is the character we need on this team.
Holmes is sharp
our recruiting guys talk to him. This kid could have gone to Harvard! He will be an incredible recruiter for us and I bet he starts before Luc or Jones.
Step away from the ledge
5 years ago it looked like USC would be on top forever, 40 years ago Alabama looked like they could never be beat and 11 years ago FSU was on top of the world. Things change and no one stays on top forever. This shortsighted view is silly imo because it completely ignores 100 years of cfb history. To say our absolute best hope is to occasionally beat UF is an extremely negative point of view and not really grounded in historical fact. UF has already begun to stumble offensively and they’re planning to keep the mediocre OC that got them there. Not only that but they’re not reloading at the TE position, their WR depth is very weak and they relied almost entirely on Tebow and Harvin the last 2 years who are now gone and are practically irreplaceable. We have the better QB, WRs and OL in 2010 and they have no one behind Brantley with only Burton (lol) coming in. That means in 2010 and 2012 they’ll have a first year starter at QB and a mediocre OC with average WRs. I’m sorry FSUUn, I like your posts, but i have to disagree with you on this one
5 years ago it looked like USC would be on top forever
Probation.
40 years ago Alabama looked like they could never be beat
Rule change.
11 years ago FSU was on top of the world.
True, but there were reasons quickly coming while it wouldn’t last. Reasons that were college football specific, not just FSU specific.
And Alabama could never beat Auburn
Tommy Tuberville has a winning record against top-10 teams. Everything is recylces. Who will be the more veteran ladden team next year,FSU or UF? Talent or not we will have a more veteran team, and our offense should be the best in the country.
College football isn't cyclical
Downturns happen because of mistakes. Teams with the most available resources will consistently be better than those with fewer resources.
>>---l>
It is cyclical.
But the length and severity of ups and downs is due to what decisions said program makes. But ups and downs are inevitable.
Depends on what you mean by ups and downs
No team will be 1-2 losses every year for decades, but it isn’t inevitable that every team will suffer an FSU like fall. It isn’t cyclical because mistakes produce failure. Going from national champion to 7-5 isn’t inevitable. Ups and downs are likely, though.
>>---l>
Ups and downs meaning ups and downs.
the decisions (or lack thereof) to correct/prevent the downs determines how “down” and how long they last. Does anyone honestly expect UF to compete for a title next year? Would that not be considered “down”? If they recruit well, hire the right coaches, get lucky with injuries and guys just not absolutely flopping in college, etc., they should only be “down” a year or two.
Wouldn't consider 1 year of not competing for conference/national titles a "down" cycle
Cycles aren’t comprised of one year. I absolutely expect them to be very strong the year after next because they have the money to throw at great coaches to fix the problems, and the talent is certainly there. Meyer screwed UF into a less than ideal year next season, but that situation isn’t typical. Down cycles are not inevitable.
>>---l>
To say our absolute best hope is to occasionally beat UF is an extremely negative point of view and not really grounded in historical fact.
History is only relevant if the factors producing the history are similar, which here I do not think they are.
UF has already begun to stumble offensively and they’re planning to keep the mediocre OC that got them there. Not only that but they’re not reloading at the TE position, their WR depth is very weak and they relied almost entirely on Tebow and Harvin the last 2 years who are now gone and are practically irreplaceable. We have the better QB, WRs and OL in 2010 and they have no one behind Brantley with only Burton (lol) coming in. That means in 2010 and 2012 they’ll have a first year starter at QB and a mediocre OC with average WRs. I’m sorry FSUUn, I like your posts, but i have to disagree with you on this one
Those are personnel factors, not program factors. I don’t think those are relevant to the long term issue.
and while we don’t know what will bring UF down we certainly know that, based on the history of cfb and all sports, that it will happen. No one thought Miami would be where they are today after the OSU MNC game, no one thought after the VT title game that FSU would be where we are now and I doubt Michigan fans saw this coming. CFB does change, like you said, and to assume it won’t ever hit UF seems shortsighted to me. Things are already changing now that they don’t have the run of the entire state like they once did. We should have had Harvin, Spiller etc but our staff sucked ass. I think it’s fair to say our staff is now on par with theirs, our facilities are top notch, our seminole showtime camp is a huge success and our S&C program will now be on par with anyone in the nation. Bowden and his clowns let us fall in so many areas which, combined with Miami havign similar issues, let UF run the state for almost 10 years. That’s over now. Every major advantage they had, except for $$, is gone and that money can only go so far. They can’t outdo our facilities by that much, can’t outdo SS by that much and can’t outdo our coaching staff either. Not saying we’ll take over in 2010 but we’re on our way to it. Add that to smarter scheduling and I feel good about the direction we’re heading
our facilities are top notch
No they are not. Scroll up to see that link Westcoastnole posted.
Every major advantage they had, except for $$, is gone and that money can only go so far.
Those advantages are largely produced by money except for the Bowden thing. UF can quickly erase its mistakes because of money.
Well we know one thing
FSU facilities > Miami Facilities.
Right, and the only reason we are down is because of Bobby.
If Bobby had hired the right coaches and asked the Boosters for more money, he would’ve gotten it.
Right, but it can be fixed.
If Fisher wins, our resources won’t lag so far behind the “big dogs” that we can’t compete.
right
but to think we can get on that level… IMO, is unrealistic. To each their own.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
i hope that you hope you are wrong at least
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
by nolewhacker on Jan 10, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I want to be wrong
but if I am not, I’ll still enjoy us as long as we are being all we can be.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 10, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
We don't have to be dollar for dollar on their level
to compete at the same level on the field. There is definitely a level where the difference is too great to overcome and a level with the distance is not great enough to matter much.
All I’m saying. I think we can close the gap to a level where it doesn’t have much impact.
Have no idea why that term didn't occur to me.
I used that a lot at my old job I had in Tally to pay my way through school. The female customers never liked hearing it.
It takes some time BUT...
eventually they turn the USS Nimitz around to go kick butt somewhere else in the world.
I agree, on the direction FSU Football is headed in.. and it makes me very happy
FSUn What are your thoughts on boise?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but other than the fact that boise plays a cupcake sched and have a blue field, why are they able to do what they do, and reach the heights they’ve reached with what they have? you can not tell me that the overall health of their program is better than FSUs. I dont think a NC for FSU is out of the question, just not in the near future.
Shitty program who FSU would beat
If FSU played their schedule the Noles would be undefeated every year as well.
Boise State
outrecruits teams like San Jose State, and Fresno State for Northern California talent (Cal and Oregon get the best NoCal kids) and get the backwash LA recruits USC and UCLA didn’t want (Or couldn’t qualify probably, Orlando Scandrick for the Cowboys grew up with DeSean Jackson ad played at Boise St.). They play one decent team (that has their conference schedule to worry about), and then play 10-11 burgers that they beat up on. Then they complain about the system freezing them out of the NC, but they get more money, recognition, and exposure then they would prior to the BCS. They’re basically stealing
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
You think our facilities are so inferior we’ll lose recruits because of it? Our players will be less developed physically because of it? I don’t think that is the case at all.
do they have nice facilities? Yes. Do we? Yes. Are there’s a little better, sure, but are they THAT much better. I just don’t think so. Looking at what UF has vs. what we have there just isn’t a massive difference, particularly if we get the indoor facility. Is a kid leaning to FSU going to head to uF because of them? absolutely not
When you couple facilities with everything else they have it makes it an easy choice
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Ok... WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!!!!!
He bleeds Garnet and Gold, She bleeds Crimson and White. AND THEY BOTH HATE ORANGE! GO NOLES!! ROLL TIDE!!
by gonolesrolltide on Jan 10, 2010 2:46 PM EST reply actions
17 year old kid changing his mind
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Talk about doom and gloom
After reading this thread I would question why some of you even cheer for FSU.
Supposedly……
We have horrific facilites
We will never ever play in nor even compete for a MNC
We will be lucky to win the ACC once or twice every decade
The so called flagship universities will own/dominate college football for all of eternity
If you all feel this way why bother supporting FSU?
Call me blind but I have a lot more faith in my University and although we have our work cut out it is nor where near as impossible as some of you are painting. We will rebound and dominate.
Go Noles!
by Seminole Fan on Jan 10, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't he still listed for an official?
I mean, it sounds like another case of a kid who is highly suggestible. Remember Markish Jones? If we do, then we might not want him. If we need him, we’re getting him here later which bodes well.
I am disappointed with the recent decommits
But I agree with Seminole Fan – FSU will rise to power again very soon. And, in the next three years we will be in a better place to make the BCS NCG with more regularity than UF. In the next two years, I think we win the ACC, and through that we’ll go to a BCS bowl. Recruits will see that we have indeed turned things around, and they should start paying a bit closer attention to us. I think that Fisher (QBs), Stoops (DBs) and Gran (RBs) will develop a couple great players in the near future, and that will help show recruits that we can maximize their chances at success in the NFL.
But, FSU does need our support to make these things happen – go to the games next year. Cheer your head off at home and help make Doak feared again. Join the Seminole Boosters and help us hire that support staff Jimbo needs. Get Tribe mentality – we are stronger as a whole, and we can all help rebuild FSU even if we aren’t on the field.
F-L-O-R-I-D-A S-T-A-T-E!!!
Florida State, Florida State, Florida State!
Exactly
Coaches like Eddie Gran don’t show up here because they expect to fail. Neither do some of the others. They see something big taking place and want to be part of it.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Who are our biggest public targets right now?
Christian Jones
Christian Green
Corey Lemonier
Terrence Mitchell
Jeremy Deering
Shaydon Akuna
Have any of them committed elsewhere? No.
People can be as optimistic or pessimistic as they want, but FSU isn’t getting smoked by anyone, nor are we in a decline as some suggest. Now, if we start losing those guys, it’s time to get upset. But not right now.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions
It's a cycle.
Coach Bowden said alot of things this season to try to get one more year to coach. Most of them were ridiculous (i.e. 1/2 the teams that played today lost). One thing is correct and that is that programs cycle through good phases and bad. He referenced Jo Pa and his program. FSU will rise again to the top for a time because of the decision to finally change the status quo.
That line of thinking is horrible!
Cycles have causes. They are not random. FSU didn’t start to suck because of a cycle, but because other teams with the money to play big boy football decided to stop screwing around, and because FSU made poor choices.
I agree with you FSUn
I don’t think the cycle is just random. But because were had bottomed out we had to change and we did. Now we will manipulate the cycle.
It wasn't a cycle I agree, BB brought it on and most of us knew it at the time (Fredo)
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Barnes is the only player that I have heard of that has decommitted since the new staff has come on. That is great for our new coaching staff. However, I was hoping that when we picked up new coaches that some of the players they had been recruiting would follow them to FSU. Haven’t heard anything about this.
I know for a fact that Luc and Joyner would not be here without the coaching changes.
Our top 2 recruits.
As for the new guys… two came from small schools and one came from out west. Stoops was recruiting the JUCO corner we got.
that's positive news
I guess I had incorrectly thought they were pretty much ours. But probably not. I am concerned about Joyner’s size…but hopefully he can make up for it. Luc looks like a beast.
Joyner arms are ridiculously long
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 10, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ever defended a pass with your head?
Joyner’s uncle is sending me the picture, but his wingspan is probably 72"+
He ain't made like the rest of us.
Boggles my mind how someone can be 5’9’’ with his arms, ect.
Best athlete since Harvin.
Deion was all legs, his legs were five feet tall, Joyner is all arms.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
"Best athlete since Harvin"
Wow…if that holds true. Is that was the “experts” are saying…or just you honest opinion?
Speaking of making comparisons...
How does the overall ’10 class stack up compared to past classes? Weak…strong? And how is ’11 looking?
2011 we will be very selective
the 2008 and 2009 classes were very good (fisher’s 1st 2). The 2005-2007 classes, as I wrote about last off-season, crushed us. Thanks previous staff.
I tend to disagree that 2008 and 2009 are fisher's "first class"
Lets be honest, a lot of recruits were detered from our instabilitiy, staff and system. i will say this though, the 2008 and 2009 classes were a prelude to what Jimbo can do if he gets his staff in place to recruit. I think the words of jimbo during the press conference were “i had my fingerprints” on the last recruiting classes. He has yet to have a full season/staff to pull in a recruiting class.
Well ok, this can be his 1st class
but the 2008 and 2009 on offense were his 1st class, though hampered by our program problems.
agreed
His first true class wont be till 2011 after a full season and staff
That's fair.
But the expectations will be very high…to have either a very good ’10 season or a very good ’11 NSD. Preferably both.
Lol, thats really subjective
For me, a 9-3 season would be good. Heck, i’d be ok with an 8-4 season if there’s visible progress (lets not forget the schedule we have next year). But some people want nothing less than a 10 win season. As mentioned before, saban had a 6-6 first season. And he didnt have to undo 10 years of baffonary.
to be more specific
I’d put 8 wins as good. 9 wins as very good. 10+ would be great. Given the current state of the program AND with everything we have coming back AND our schedule. Just my opinion.
In recruiting…we’d better fill needs with a Top 10 class in ’11. This will actually tell me more about the future than how we do in ’10 on the field.
Depends on definition of better
As far as talent on the team FSU has more on hand because Jimbo and part of his staff have been around to recruit. We also have an easier conference to play in.
But worse of because of the money and passion differences. If you don’t know people born and raised in Alabama I can’t think of a way to explain the following the Tide has there. Tide fans outnumber Tiger fans much more than Gates outnumber Noles. A lot of current Gate fans are bandwagoners who will jump once UF isn’t winning big. Tide fans are fans by birth and will always be there and be rabid. In terms of passion Nole fans don’t compare. Don’t know who does other than maybe Longhorn fans.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Better meaning
Easier conference.
Better roster.
Head coach and half the staff already onboard.
Let’s not act like FSU is poor. If Fisher produces results the program will have money.
And that's because
Bobby was trying to lead the program into the dirt. Bad hires. Bad recruiting. Three very poor seasons in 4 years. An overall, significant, downward trend in the 2000’s. All of which contributed to stagnant (or maybe even decreasing?) resources.
If we would’ve stayed a fixture in just the top 25, we would not be near as “poor” as we are now. And I do think much of the current discrepancy is recoverable.
We would either not be as "poor" or we would still be as "poor".
I don’t think there’s a “certain extent” to it.
How does a team like Boise State get so competitive with seemingly bad recruiting class's?
Coaching must be able to overcome alot of the highschool star power right?
class of 99
Few reasons for that.
First game of the year.
At Boise.
On geh turf.
Anything goes for ONE game.
Oklahoma in the Fiesta a vew years back:
OU felt insulted having to play Boise.
OU was up big late and put it on cruise and blew it.
BSU’s biggest game in their history.
Again, anything goes for ONE game.
Really think they’d beat USC, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State or Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Oklahoma State or Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, Alabama, Auburn or FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, VT, BC or OSU, Michigan, Penn State, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. etc. if they had to play them all in the same season? Hell no. They’d get beat the f up. They don’t have nearly the depth to overcome that type of schedule. They do, however, have great coaching, a great system and a good eye for talent. I won’t deny them that. I think TCU, BYU and Utah have proven similar abilities over the years.
Actually
Boise was up the whole game. They were up 21-0 after one quarter. And they actually have better depth than people think. They red shirt a bunch of guys to get them accustomed to the system. And it is only one game. On one single game could Bosie beat any of those guys? Yes aboslutely.
Thanks but I meant overall nationally…the quality of HS players. I know some years are perceived to be better than others.
Your right. This class is so good that I have to constantly remind my self to temper my expectations.
We have been spoiled by the wave of good noise.
class of 99
Erm, I don't really understand your post.
Class of 2011 = JRs in high school right know
FSU is working on the class of 2010 right now.
?
2011 NSD Class...
…2010 HS grads. You understood me correctly.
That’s GREAT to hear about it being well regarded. COULD be perfect timing!
oops
meant NSD 2011 (which is the same as their graduation year). Anyway…great to hear that it might be a banner year next year.
I know its early but
do you think we’re in the running for the blue chips?
Sooooo
im assuming you’re going to post a “watch list” after NSD lol?
No by mid-Febrary
FSUSOM knows he’ll be writing an article about the 12 prospects 2011 coley got to since NSD.
He could have an impact like Reid did this year on ST.
Very gifted athlete with the ball in his hands but obviously needs work on technique.
I'd be shocked if his wingspan wasn't in the 76"-78" range
72" wingspan isn’t that ridiculous for a guy who’s 5’9" IMO. Remember than wingspans for the majority of athletes is > than the average public.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
It's not the end the world...
FSU still has big advantages over other BCS schools, even our “re$ources” don’t match Bama and UF’s: Recruiting, Competent staff, great facilities, Bianchi’s FAMU theory…
I think we’ll be in the MNC conversation. Getting there and winning it are 2 different things. Hoping and believing we have a chance is half the fun.
Recruiting, Competent staff, great facilities, Bianchi’s FAMU theory…
Meant to list this as some of our advantages over other schools…not UF’s or Bamas
Agreed on the FAMU theory.
That is big.
We have MADE UP ground on UF since the Maryland game. Big ground.
Care to explain this statement?
What is the ground that was made up? Coaching?
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 10, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
The coaching I will give you
However its hard to improve upon a loaded roster and it looks like they are poised to have one of the best recruiting classes in history. Their defensive line class is absolutely sick and will give our undersized offensive line hell. The good thing is we don’t need to beat Florida to win the ACC which should be the main goal every season.
by Legal_Seminole on Jan 10, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
You can only play 11 guys at a time.
If we can improve our starting 11, but they can only improve their 2nd 11, we improve more.
I share your concern
…on future defensive fronts at UF over the next few years. They got THE absolute monsters…and from all over the country. I really wish FSU (or any other school)…could steal just one of those “Big 3” (Powell, Floyd, Easley) away from UF by NSD. Those guys look to be the real deal.
Yeah…that FAMU theory has been around for decades. I think there is some truth to it. Tally definitely garners more “street cred” than Gunsville, for better or worse.
Are you serious?
Wow…that says a lot about some of the “scholar athletes” in the modern era.
I dont remember his name
but I remember you or someone else posting how he was surprised after only going to FAMU parties during his recruiting trip
Did you not hear about the recruit from TX that checked out Michigan?
He was a white QB (fwiw) and went on a visit to UM in like August and when he came back he said in an interview, “I was surprised there wasn’t any snow. I was expecting snow.”
This was 3-4 years ago, I think.
I don't know about that
I know back when I was there they look at you funny when you pick up your date at the counter of the sorority house. LOL
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Wow this thread is rolling!
We have to work on FSUns pessimism. I can tell you this as one other poster mentioned. I lived in an apartment in gunville when Danny Rolling was there. I went out of town one weekend and my wife and two daughters stayed home. Someone tried to pry the sliding glass door that night. My wife pulled back the curtain with a small 38 I had left there and the guy took off.
Several years later my wife saw Rolling on television and said that is the guy who tried to open the door. If I had not left a 38 there, I proably would not have a wife and three children now. Nobody needs to tell me about gunville. I hate the place.
It also wasn’t far from where the Sessions girl disappeared. My wife also saw Rolling walk through the complex once while walking with my daughter but there were people around. It was a Brookwood Terrace Apartments. I don’t know if they are still called that.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Again, 10 years ago, people in Bama were saying the same things Budis saying re: FSU
i.e. : We will never dominate collgeg football like we used to be cause we dont have the talent that Florida high schools have. We dont have the intangibles ( weather, urban activities, beaches, etc.) and so and so and so on. They thought there situation was hopeless. All Bama had was a fading tradition and Money. All that changed was a commitment to the program…Facilites and coaches (Saban).
If Saban leaves in a few years and Bama doesnt get another Uber coach (no guarantee), they will be right back where they were with Shula.
TO condemn FSU to some sort of “permanent Also-ran” staus is just pessimistic, illogical and bogus thinking.
So what happened
All Bama had was a fading tradition and Money. All that changed was a commitment to the program…Facilites and coaches (Saban).
There’s the money issue again. And Bama has more tradition than anyone pretty much,
You left off commitment.
Money is a form of commitment. FSu may not have as much as uf or Bama, but they have enough and with each passing year will get closer and closer. When i went to Bama is the early 80’s the enrollment was 12-13k. I am guessing it is now about 18-20K. FSU will graduate more people by a factor of “2” and they will earn as much as the avg Bama grad if not more. In 15-20 years there will be more living FSU alums than Bama. They just have a head start. The Nut is for FSU to mobilize and get its base to support the program…..we need a glorified IPTAY or some such campaign.
My point in all this is that factors that make BAMA what you visually see and experience can be that way at FSU as well. So don’t give up hope!
Can you clarify what a "we need a glorified IPTAY or some such campaign." is?
Thanks
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Clemson's booster campaign
Forgive me if you already know this and I amy not be exact on the facts, but Clemson began a campaign 30 or so years ago called IPTAY which stood for “I Pay Thirty A Year”. Basically it was a plan devised to get EVERYONE regardless of financial status to give something to the program even if it was just Thirty Dollars. Many think that it is expensive to be a booster or that being a booster is only for fat cats and football fanatics. But a program like that can snowball because it gets names, and adresses and starts a data base of those predisposed to give something, anything to contribute to the program.
Thanks for the info
I think that would help immensely here, I also think we need to make booster membership a requirement for season ticket holders
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
I Pay 10 A Year (not 30)
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
IPTAY = I Pay 10 A Year; not 30 A Year
I was correcting Egret’s defn, not saying I pay to Clemson.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
The best thing the SEC has
Is that the winner of their conference gets an automatic bid in the National Cahmpionship game. That would be like saying the winner of the AL East in baseball gets to the world series without playing a game. I know they do their scheduling better, but it is a little ridiculous how being in the SEC puts a team ahead of that many teams.
Without question, no other post in TN history has carried this much gravity.
And between this and your military tale a few nights ago, I’d like to pre-order 3 copies of “Doc’s Memoirs”. Paypal okay?
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
LOL you don't want to read it!
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Bama
Does not have Panama City beaches.
Does not have FSU coeds
The boosters categorically stated that if Fisher did not get the DC he wanted it would not be because they were outbid.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Well within reason on the booster thing
we weren’t going to give Smart 900K guaranteed and 3+ years guaranteed
They do have Gulf Shores, Pensacola, Destin, and Ft Walton.
And Bama and Auburn chicks are SMOKIN hot. I went to an Auburn game when i was a student at Bama and thought Bama had the best babes anyhwere…but I saw so much hot tail at Jordan Hare I could not believe it. But FSU has just as many and they dress WAY WAY sexier.
True, but
on an official visit, every major program has 10s 10s 10s 10s hey can throw at kids. The average girl isn’t relevant in recruiting. If it were, we’d kick everyone’s ass.
I'm sure you've heard the saying:
“Pu$$y got no face”
more than makes up the difference IMO.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
No, but I have heard the phrase "The more I drink, the better she looks."
I’ll drink to that. What Irishman wouldn’t?
all those places
are 6+ hours away. I wouldn’t say “they have…” They’re all closer to tallahassee
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jan 10, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
6+ hours
away from Tuscaloosa that is
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jan 10, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
And they are all in Florida
Trust me, FSU kids go to those spots whenever they feel like it.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 10, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
ft walton bch and destin is nole country. as for pensacola where i live at, it is a deverse group of people here.
by seminolejay on Jan 10, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I'm in Destin now. Lots of noles here alot of Gators and Bama fans as well though.
I do see more Nole plates on cars driving around though.
class of 99
All FSU needs to do is beat FU in Tallahassee this year
That will dramatically change perception. I promise you if that happens I will be assasinated by a gator fan.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
it would be more like a martyr than an assassination.
More Joan of Arc than William McKinley.
by The K-Man on Jan 10, 2010 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its very exciting!
I really feel theres no limit to what we can do though. We just need to play our best cards, and not try to be something we can’t.
you weren't very excited 10 and 11 years ago
when FSU was playing in the national championship game? i find that surprising. if we have a down period of 10-15 years then that is fine. USC was mediocre for 20 years.
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
9 years is legit.
I was still excited about FSU until i realized that someone who looked like Rix would never be an elite football player. too pretty
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
Lets worry about the little things 1st before we moan and groan about the Gatros...
Little stuff like not being in a 4th quarter nail biter with Jax State or troy or the Citadel. NOT going on a three year losing streak to Weak Florest. Ya know stuff like that.
And FSU will be in the thick of it for the ACC immediately, IMHO. Because, the ACC is so bad a team can win it by accident. I’ve often had the feeling BC wasn’t trying to win the ACC they just found themselves in the championship game somehow.
it is a huge advantage
for our resurgence to be in the ACC. we don’t have to beat UF even to be in a BCS bowl every year. once we do that (maybe not every year but every other or 2/3) the snowball will start rolling
2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.
One thing that is "cyclical" in college football is this:
A program that is highly successful gets there because of a hunger and desire to get to a point. Once a program reaches the pinnacle the hunger/desire sort of goes away like a lion in the bush. When it is hungry it is focused like a laser on filling it stomach. When food is plentiful and it is fat is loses it’s edge/hunger/desire/focus and it becomes complacent and the it becomes lazy/vulnerable. That is what happened to Bowden and FSU, Bama after Bear, Notre Dame after Parseghian, UCLA after Wooden, Nebraska after Osborne etc, etc. The “cycle” is loss coaching and loss of focus by the program and it’s handlers.
Fisher says he can show FSU how to win again
I believe the man. He wants to be here, says he can accomplish everything in his career he wants right here. Bowden did and so can he.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
I fell physically ill after this weekend
recruiting news has been brutal
You win some and you lose some
Easy to get down after the past week, but it WILL get better. You have to be able to temper the highs and the lows. I almost stopped following recruiting because it can make you crazy…..silly getting bent out of shape by the whims of 17 -18 years olds.
I feel your pain.
I despise just about everything about UF…so seeing these all-star games practically become a gator recruiting special…and their guys steal the show…is vomit-inducing!
I agree
But pay close attention to defensive tackle. There ma be some things going on we simply do not know about. I will take a wait and see approach.
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
Here is a possibility
" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."
" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!
The process begins!
why? I am laughing at that link, maybe because of the chubby cheeks & fro.
Are you excited about a kid that AZ didn’t offer but Tulsa did?
Are we even talking to him?
Chandler would probably be a better option at DT.
I'll take Young, Kirksey, Brooks, Werner, Chandler, etc, etc over that kid.
No need to go to Oklahoma (or where ever he’s from).
Question for Bud
Does your ratio for how often we compete with UF a perfect world scenario? If so how do you think Murphy’s Law impacts the numbers? I think there is always the chance UF ends up with another Rex Grossman, or we ned up with another Rix for that matter. Not to say they were dogs but just that they were guys with talent who could cost you 2 or 3 games in a season. Recruiting and talent evaluation being inexact sciences, doesn’t that swing the pendulum to one way or the either if say Brantley is a busy but EJ is the truth?
or if some SEC DT or LB breaks Brantley's leg.
We will have no more Rixes as long as Fisher has a hand in recruiting and coaching our QBs
You can always get a bonehead
Rix had everything physically you could want in a QB, he just had too much faith in his arm. But you couldn’t sit him because he was so much better than the guy behind him. There is always a chance of that happening. You hope the light goes off, like it did with Vince Young, but sometimes you get stuck with a RIx.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Boneheads
He put LaMarcus Russell in the league.
He took a 3* legacy kid and made him into a Heisman candidate
And he took a 6’5" freshman who floats the ball into 4 games, along with a 96th ranked defense, and came out 3-1 including a win in the Gator Bowl and the only loss being at UF
As we will always have more than 1 QB on the team, I do not see how we will get stuck with playing a bonehead we can’t win with.
I don't think Russell is a bonehead
I just think he can’t deal with NFL speed. I also think he is lazy and doesn’t put in the extra time that is needed in order to make it in the NFL.
Ponder is more an example of what is wrong with buying completely into the * system. If you aren’t going to combines and camps and don’t keep sending in film you are going to be a 3* no matter what. EJ made good decisions in all his games so he is really the anti Rix.
As weird as it may sound, I like Rix had more natural talent than any QB on the roster right now. He just had a raging ego when it came to his talents and thought he could always get the ball in there. None of our guys have that problem and that allows them to stick to the gameplan and keep the turn overs down.
QBs are like women man, sometimes they look great and impress on the first couple of dates. Then all of a sudden she calls you every hour on the hour and you suddenly find out she isn’t right in the head.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Russell is a loser
And should be bought out and sent packing to Alabama. He has zero work ethic and inspires depression and hopelessness in his teammates. And Fisher made this guy the number one pick. I am Raiders fan as well, and let me tell ya if we had a “decent” QB we go into the playoffs. Either way though, Jimbo is a hell of a coach, and I do not think it will take as long as others think.
Really?
Then way after he sat did they even look competative. The Coach said we would have won if JaMarcus was not the Russell. And Maybe he didnt have those qualities at LSU, but once he got payed he sure devolped them.
I think we get another Weinke
I an checking out all of the baseball pages as we speak. The main thing I am looking for is a balding guy with a good arm and intelligence.
Jimbo?
So if FSU can only compete for a MNC every once in awhile why is Jimbo here? I assume he wants to win one. I also assume he is good enough to win one if he were at a place like Bama, UF or USC. Do you think if we had Saban or Urban for a coach they could win one here without the booster support?
So if FSU can only compete for a MNC every once in awhile why is Jimbo here?
It’s a very nice head coaching job.
I assume he wants to win one. I also assume he is good enough to win one if he were at a place like Bama, UF or USC.
I do too, but they aren’t hiring 1st time head coaches. We had a very unique situation and are even luckier to have someone who understands that situation.
Do you think if we had Saban or Urban for a coach they could win one here without the booster support?
Definitely not.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
So what do you think his goals are? To dominate the ACC and keep his job? Or maybe go to the NFL? It just seems like he build his staff to win not just do good enough to keep their job.
If you have this job
you have to believe you can win the national championship, because our fans sure as hell do.
And I do think he wants NFL at some point
but that is just me and someone people who have followed his career speculating over drinks.
How could Carroll say
even the best college atmosphere can’t compete with the NFL? What’s he talking about? College sports are better than their professional counterparts, even if the skill level isn’t.
You think Saban wouldn't win a MNC here?
Do you mean he wouldn’t win with the current level of booster support or that he wouldn’t win if he had 0 booster support?
Also where would you guess OK State fits into the money talk with Pickens hooking them up? Or Oregon with Knight?
by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
With the current level, I don't think Saban could
OK State lacks tradition and a recruiting base (they have to compete with OU who has as much money), and Oregon has to also go way out of state for most of their talent.
But you make a great point.
I do think FSU CAN win it. Just don’t think it will because a lot has to go right.
But I am coming around on this. Y’all are a passionate group that argues and you make some great points.
If FSU goes undefeated in the ACC, beating Clemson, BC, NC State, GTech, Miami, Miami again (champ game), and UVA, and beats UF, they’d be in the champ game for sure, and once you get there, anything can happen.
We just do not have the luxury of being able to lose a game
There is very little chance an ACC team gets in to the NCG with a loss. In the SEC a loss is seen as a speed bump. I would love if we roll through the ACC, but I think everyone would agree that we need to get the same respect the SEC gets. FSU needs someone to make a splash. I do not care who it is. We just need to be able to say “I beat xyz team” and it mean something.
Just out of curiosity
Let say I won the lottery and wanted to become a booster. How much would it cost for me to “buy” a championship?
well I think we need to increase monies by 3X to be even with UF, right?
Someone has better numbers than I have.
Isn't that almost double what we're pulling in?
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
That is just Booster contributions, they make far more than us in overall revenue
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Those numbers are only Booster contributions that are distributed across all sports
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
Thanks
Does anyone know where that is kept? I would be interested in looking up the teams of the last 10 MNC games if someone could point me in the right direction.
Did I do something wrong?
I was just curious I wanted to compare and see how much it would cost. I have always been more interested in how a football team is built with the players and schemes (one of the reasons I love this site). Now I am very interested in how Jimbo is going to build FSU and what he is going to change. I know FSUn wrote that great story on what he is going to change but I am always looking for more.
Nah man, no worries
The numbers have been brought up before and they are mind blowing. It’s interesting to know where we stand on the totem pole in comparision to those who play “Big boy football”
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
I'll save you the time
All of them blow FSU away except for USC, which is private, and doesn’t release its numbers, but did buy recruits 750K houses…
And Range Rovers and rent in plush downtown condos
USC is spending like crazy. Thats why AD Mike Garret will throw the basketball team to the wolves in order to preserve the cash cow that is football. They were paying Pete 4.4 mil. That should give us a clue.
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
To the NCAA?
Or to a reporter or something? Why would he do that?
Lol Yep, Yahoo reports it, ESPN steals it
I heard on ESPN that he and Carroll were subpoenaed
in that lawsuit against Bush by his former-would-be-agent.
Idiot
Don’t let a street pharmacist/gangmember attempt to manage your affairs and you won’t have to run your mouth.Stay a square
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
UF
I think in that scenario ‘xyz’ team would be UF, Plus Miami at least once.
1 Loss ACC team
I agree a one loss ACC team would not get in but do you think the undisputed #1 of the Big 3 would? Say FSU beat both UF and Miami but loss to say GT and still won the ACC Championship game?
But I would think that would depend on whats also
going on with Texas, Ohio State, or the SEC Champ. Or a just how that entire picture shakes out. OSU may now get the benefit of the doubt now that they won a big game, and Texas is poised to rule the Big 12 until further notice. They kill Oklahoma in recruiting now
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
True
I guess that was to big of a ‘What if?’ I was just saying if all of them also have a loss. Right now like pollynole pointed out a 1 Loss ACC team is not getting in unless everyone else has 2 losses. I was just curious if FSU has an advantage over the rest of the ACC that if FSU only has one loss would they be considered?
If FSU is a 1-loss team with our current SOS, we get in
If our only loss next season was at Miami, we win at OU, beat UF, beat Clemson, win the ACCCG (say against VT), we are in unless there are a couple of undefeated teams. Boise really throws a wrench in the thing, b/c they are bound to go undefeated in any given year with their schedule and the AP puts them in the to 5.
FSU and Miami
I think are the only ACC teams that can get in with 1 loss. The Big 12 was nothing this year but nobody questioned Texas going to the big game because they are “Texas”. With reporters FSU and Miami have that kind of name. We could lose a squeaker to a ranked GT, VT or Clemson and beating a good UM and UF would put us up there. Even if the rest of the ACC falls off the map beating UF would legitimize a FSU team.
I think to compete with UF we need to maximize our talent evaluation and get on to kids as early as possible. If we built relationships to the point where we close the talent gap then anything can happen.
by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
So true
The main thing that has to be focused on is getting the best talent possible. In order to do that, and to close the gap quicker, FSU must own SoFla in recruiting. It’s the fastest and best solution to FSU-UF talent gap. It can be done,IMO. Especially when Miami has gotten to the point where they are losing commits to Maryland of all people
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
The Maryland kid wanted to stay close to home.
FSU has learned the perilous lessons of nationwide recruiting in the past. I want to say it happened in ‘04 & ’06 where highly rated classes didn’t pan out because kids got homesick & transferred closer to home, among other reasons.
Depends
If FSU loses to a UNC or NCST, but beats Miami and UF, then they will go over any other one loss team.
As long as there is not 2 undefeated teams coming out of the SEC, Big-12 or Pac 10
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
You think a 1 loss ACC Champion FSU
would get the nod over a 1 loss SEC champ Alabama? A 1 loss Big 12 champ Texas or OU? A 1 loss Big Ten champ Ohio State? I don’t.
>>---l>
Probably not over a 1-loss SEC Champ
But quite possibly over a 1-loss Big XII Champ.
Depends on the year (strength of the conferences and particular schedule of each conference champ).
FSU could play for and win a national title without going undefeated.
13-1 (final record) could do it assuming that one loss is NOT to UF or in the ACC CG and there isn’t more than one BCS team with an undefeated record in the final BCS ranking. Four of the last 7 BCS Champions were not undefeated.
No reason FSU can't compete with UF long-term
….and make it a 50-50 rivalry. Even last year…with UF at its all-time pinnacle…FSU had a comparable recruiting class to UF. So there’s no reason that we can’t overtake them…on a regular basis…if we start winning with Fisher & Co. FSU’s got a rapidly “coming of age” fan base and UF’s is somewhat static. FSU also developed a tradition from ‘87-’00 that most programs don’t achieve in 130 years of playing football. Amazing looking sports campus, a talented and motivated staff…no reason FSU can’t win another NC. We have a much better shot than 90-some % of the schools in the NCAA.
PS The SEC’s been on a hot run…but they stunk when it came to winning NC’s from 1980 thru the early 2000s (i think they only won 3 in over 20 years during that stretch). And one of ’em was a mulligan!
Spending Money Wisely
Here’s an idea for another TN story, but I don’t have enough ideas for a fanpost, so I’ll just put it out there:
We’ve talked about process. What is the process as far as how to spend limited resources? Don’t know if Jimbo would’ve learned that or needed to from Saban.
But what the most important way to spend immediate cash, aside from hiring good coaches and adding the nutrition program?
A) Indoor practice facility
B) Modify Doak to make it trap noise
C) Upgrade the coaches offices, meeting rooms & build a player center with a rec room or whatever?
Where do we get the most bang for the buck?
If we could be more efficient than UF... that could help a bunch.
That would be a tremendous article.
Thats the thing
UF doesn’t even have to be efficent. Not with their revenues and profit margin
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
That just means that we have a lower margin for error on how we spend.
Not that we cannot compete if we spend more efficiently.
I don’t know how they spend $45M / yr. Maybe $1,000 toilet seats? I’d be curious to learn how their money is spent.
Could you link some kind of fanpost guideline?
I cannot figure out how to include graphs or some of the other things you guys do so well, and I hope that somewhere there is a guide better than the info the give you on the actual fanpost? Would be great.
I’d love to work on this money idea if no one else has the time who is better at it
Thanks for the quick reply. I have read that before, and found it very helpful on the content aspect, but didn’t understand the technilogical part as well. I put my graph on word and tried to copy/paste, and tried saving it as a jpeg or something like that and then hosting it, but I couldn’t get any luck.
Sorry for the trouble, wrote an article sorta a while back that I can’t post cuz i haven’t figured it out, plus I figured I’d wait a while till theres not as much great stuff coming out
Not sure why that didn't work
Feel free to email me and I can try and walk you through it
It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee
The answer is simple
Add a roof to Doak. It’ll trap noise, will serve as an indoor practice facility, and when not in use can be used as a giant player center/recroom/meetingroom/cafegymatorium. tada!
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Jan 11, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yikes
It would be like a Mega-O’Connell Center. Man would that be FUGLY.
I think its more important
Everyones student section hopefully stands up the whole time ( ours has this year) but from the other stadiums I’ve been to, our old people are just as lame as theirs are, and I think we have a similar number of old people
cant have a full stadium
then look at the student section and see it half empty.
We need the students to stop being spoiled drunks that show up in the 2nd quarter and leave midway through the 4th.
I love Tally, and all the drinking, but I dont think our fans are as rabid as I would like them to be.
Losing
A lot of losing as deflated the program. Everyone says the noise is gone and this thing and that thing. BUt when you lose there is not gonna be any atmosphere. Anyways, if wins come, then the Doak will be the Doak it was during the 90s.
Right-O
The stadium was rocking for the Miami game last year (until the ball hit the turf for the last time…ughh). There are definitely signs of life. But you gotta win.
It's not ONLY recruiting it is cleaning house
We have actually been in the top 10 in recruiting 4 out of the last 5 years. That has not translated well for us. We need to continually flush the underperformers as the article today stated. We have been replacing 5 stars with 2 stars in this process. We lost 3 out of 9 five stars. Consider it four when you consider Markus White is non-existent.
You can't just sign a good class.
They actually have to enroll and be able to remain in school. We haven’t been able to do that. That doesn’t constitute good recruiting to me. In the 4 or 5 classes prior to Fisher, 35% never made it in, flunked out or were kicked off the team. You can imagine another 25% or so never really had much impact. We’ve been “hitting” on our prospects much better the past couple years.
do a better job figuring out which highly rated kids are bad apples
which fit your system
2004-2007: BAD
Fisher’s new way 08-09: GOOD
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