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Seminole Roster Review: Florida State's Offense 01.11.10

You may remember reading "How will Jimbo Fisher change Florida State?"  If you haven't yet, I suggest giving it a look.  One of the issues I addressed in that piece was roster turnover. I wrote:

I would also expect a lot of roster turnover.  The 85-man scholarship limit is a great equalizer in college football.  Any way of maximizing the limit gives a program a distinct advantage.  Many people don't realize, however, that scholarships are year-to-year agreements.  They are not guaranteed, and renewal is at the discretion of the program.  Some old school coaches treated them like 4-year agreements (Bowden), but guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban do not.  In resurrecting Miami and North Carolina, Butch Davis masterfully churned the roster with incredible efficiency.  They play within the rules but take it to the limit.  If a kid isn't developing as planned, don't look for him to be at Florida State for his entire career.  There are exceptions, but there won't be any 4-year disappointments on the roster any longer.  To that end, look for many transfers in the first two years under Fisher.  Alabama, the national champion, famously had to jettison more than 15 players in Nick Saban's first two seasons. 

One pattern I have noted under Saban, however, is that kids who buy in to the process and give championship level effort (which new strength coach Vic Viloria will demand) will not be encouraged to transfer until after they have put in at least two seasons with the program.  Players who do not buy in fully, however, could be out after only a single season.

Another issue here is academic casualties, of which you can expect a major decrease.  All of Fisher's 2008 and 2009 recruiting classes (his first two) have at least a 2.0 GPA, all but one carry over a 2.2, and his most recent class averages over a 3.0 GPA.  More support staff means more one-on-one attention for the players.  It means better monitoring of a player's academic progress.  Having a better grasp on which players are not likely to return for next season due to academic ineligibility means that Fisher can encourage players who just aren't buying into the program and developing, to transfer, without the worry of creating a lack of depth.  You should also look for increased use of the medical disqualification scholarship, a way in which a kid can finish his education when he cannot play ball due to injury.  It's a great way to free up a roster spot for a kid who has an injury that would make it difficult for him to transfer.  And opposed to releasing the player, this helps him finish his education.  Again, it's all about maximizing the roster within the 85-man limit.  

Here's Nick Saban on attrition, courtesy AL.com:


"We have a demanding program," Saban said.

"I mean, when I say 'Demanding program,' I'm not talking about football," Saban said. "It is demanding. We have some players in our program who have not met those demands. We have the same kind of demands academically. There are players that don't meet that. And we have the same thing in football. But none of these players are leaving because of the kind of football players they are."

There are players who have left because they don't believe they'll play, and Saban said he doesn't want guys who aren't happy with their roles. He also added:

"We have some players who will be grayshirted and know they will be grayshirted," Saban said. "And we have some players who are contemplating what their future's gonna be. And we have some players who are being suspended, whether it's for behavior or academic reasons, and they won't continue at our school."

I understand that this is a subject that many feel shouldn't be discussed or that goes against the idea of college athletics.  I would simply suggest those people follow a non-revenue sport.  This is happening all over the country at elite programs, and Tomahawk Nation will discuss the issue.

If a kid doesn't give championship-level effort, he will be asked to transfer.  And if a kid just doesn't develop to the point where after a few seasons he can give a "significant contribution", he might be asked to transfer (might).  I stress "might", there, because it is far from guaranteed.

But in that process, there are a number of factors a coach must consider.  What message does the transfer send to the other players?  If the player is well liked and works hard, it might hurt the team's psychology.  If the guy is a slacker, it will remind everyone that their scholarship is not guaranteed.  Coaches must also consider what high school the player came from, as it's unwise to alienate powerhouse high school programs from which a coach might recruit a star player in the future.  Extenuating circumstances must also be considered.

You can choose to believe me or not.  This didn't come from the coaching staff, but hopefully the reasoning makes sense.

Florida State has 84 scholarships for next season and the 'Noles plan to bring in a recruiting class of 28-30 players.  They return 59 scholarship players (or 62 if you are unwilling to acknowledge the three spots that came open in the last two months).  Assuming a class of 29, FSU must lose 4 more players (or 7 if you don't acknowledge the three aforementioned departures we learned about in the last month or so-- John Prior, Aaron Gresham and Maurice Harriss) to get under the limit.  Remember also that FSU doesn't have to get under the number until fall camp, so the Noles do have time to evaluate the kids under Fisher's new system and the new off-season lifting program.  How does FSU get to that number?

I start with the offensive side of the ball because the picture is much clearer.  While hamstrung by the Bowden nonsense, Fisher recruited these guys himself, and as such, most of these players are "his guys."  This side of the ball is quite young, yet it was the ACC's best offense of the decade.

Quarterback

Ideally, a team should carry 4 scholarship quarterbacks at a time.  While some believe this is a bit much, quarterback is by far the most important position on the field, and because recruiting is an inexact science, it is important to volume recruit the position (relatively speaking).  Florida State is in good shape here:

SR JR SO FR
Christian Ponder (Rs) EJ Manuel (Rs) Will Secord (Rs)
Clint Trickett (Enrolled Spring '10)

With Ponder's graduation, the 'Noles will look to take 1 quarterback in the next recruiting cycle.  Pure speculation here, but if Secord is passed by Trickett, he might look to transfer, and in that case FSU would take two quarterbacks in the next class.

Running Back

For purposes of this analysis, running back will encompass both scat backs and bigger backs along with the traditional tailback position.  This does not include the H-back position, which is essentially a smaller tight-end-type player.  Fisher has a history rotating backs (his team at LSU once led the SEC in rushing with no player rushing for more than 500 yards!).  I also think backs are easy to evaluate within their 1st year, so there isn't much need to keep them around as long as some other positions in the hope that a back might eventually blossom.  With that said, I think 6 running backs is a good number to shoot for to factor in different needs, injuries, and attrition.  It's also a position where kids will sometimes seek a transfer to get increased playing time at a small school or a school with an opening.  A back who isn't likely to make a significant contribution and who has younger players passing him over for playing time is definitely a candidate to free up a scholarship.  Here's what FSU is currently working with:

SR JR SO FR
Taveres Pressley (rs) Jermaine Thomas Lonnie Pryor
Ty Jones Chris Thompson
Debrale Smiley (rs Enrolles Spring '10)

There is definitely some room to trim the fat in this group.  The 'Noles already have starter Jermaine Thomas, and Florida State is bringing in Debrale Smiley, who will be a redshirt sophomore. Thompson and Pryor were key parts of the ACC's best offense of the decade. Those 4 are very likely to complete their eligibility as 'Noles. 

But that still leaves Tavares Pressley and Ty Jones, both of whom have been passed up by younger players.   Both have been with the program for two seasons and both are unlikely to make a significant contribution.  In order to make room for new talent, those two are unlikely to finish their time at Florida State.  Pressley had the knee injury, which set him back and allowed younger players to pass him up.  Jones has repeatedly failed to manage his diabetes.  Both players needed to develop at a more rapid pace than they did.  While a nutrition program could have helped Jones manage his condition, that is in the past and Jones will not likely be able to make up for the lost time.

There is also a distinct possibility that FSU will pull in Mack Brown, a top-rated running back out of Atlanta.  Brown is currently committed to the Gators.  If that happens, FSU would need to trim their roster by one, and one of the two above listed runners would absolutely be a candidate.  Our recruiting guys do not believe FSU will take a back other than Mack Brown since 2011 is a very good class for backs.

But with all that said, there might not be much need to free up room at this spot- yet.  A lot will depend on the recruiting class.

For the rest of the offense, click "continue reading..."

Star-divide

Wide Receiver

Ideally, FSU should carry about 12 wide receivers.  Wide receivers occasionally have academic troubles but not significantly more than most other positions to justify adjusting the ideal allotment to account for academic trouble.  Florida State currently has 13 receivers, including current commitments and projected commitments.

SR JR SO FR
Jarmon Fortson Willie Haulstead Josh Gehres (rs)
Bert Reed (rs)
Rodney Smith Jared Haggins
Taiwan Easterling A. J. Alexander (rs) DeJoshua Johnson
Cameron Wade (rs)
Kenny Shaw
Greg Dent
Christian Green

FSU should and likely will look to cut one of these receivers.  But which one?  First, let's start with the receivers who should be retained.  Of the Juniors, Fortson, Reed, and Easterling are clearly the class of this group, and all made significant contributions over the last two seasons.  FSU will continue to rely on them again this year and the next. Haulstead and Smith are the only sophomores, were very highly touted, and both played a bit this past year.  They are absolutely safe.  Remember the rules on freshmen (don't fail to retain kids for lack of development if they haven't been in the program for at least two seasons, unless there is good reason). I remind readers of that because some have suggested that FSU release Josh Gehres.  Unless they know something about his practice habits of character that we at Tomahawk Nation do not, that move would be misguided.  It could also jeopardize the relationship the coaches have with Lincoln High School (in Tallahassee).

That leaves Cameron Wade and Avis Commack.  Wade has been in legal trouble, embarrassed the program, has a poor attitude, has a poor work ethic, has not received playing time, and is not a good player.  Wade was a Jeff Bowden recruit forced upon Jimbo Fisher,  who did not want him.  He's a prime example of the poor recruiting practices of the old regime, which are still hurting the program to this day.  Aside from all that, he is extremely unlikely to make his significant contribution, even after being in the program for three years.  He is one of the most likely candidates not to be on the team next season. 

As for Commack, there are mixed signals here.  On the one hand, Commack has not played much, and when he did play, he has not played well.  On the other hand, Commack has a number of things working in his favor.  First, he has been injured a bit and has a lot of ability.  Second, he hasn't been a known troublemaker, and while that isn't an endorsement of his character in either direction, his public reputation is better than Wade's.  Additionally, Commack has been in the program for only two years compared to Wade's three years.  There's a greater chance he will develop into a contributor.  He also has his school going for him.  Commack is from Jacksonville's First Coast high school, the same high school of fellow 'Noles Jermaine Thomas and Nigel Carr.  That's an important high school for FSU recruiting, and the 'Noles are expected to land two highly touted prospects from First Coast in the 2011 class.  Fisher is unlikely to jeopardize that relationship.  If Commack transfers, it's likely of his own choosing to gain greater playing time at another school.

Some might think that FSU has a log jam coming at receiver, but it should clear up rather nicely.  Fortson could go to the NFL early, and while Dent and Haggins will start at wideout, they could end up at defensive back if they don't play wide receiver at the level Fisher expects.  

All of the wide receivers recruited by Fisher at this point seem to be progressing well.  That's an encouraging sign.  It's always better to have players leave to seek more playing time than to be non-performers.

Tight End/ H-Back

Ideally, Florida State should keep 4 tight ends on the roster.  It allows for some margin of error in evaluating prospects and can allow for a redshirt if necessary.  Here's the roster:

SR JR SO FR
Matt Dunham (rs) Bo Reliford Tank Sessions (current commitment)
Jabarris Little Will Tye (projected commitment)

Florida State has had trouble recruiting tight ends, mostly because for about 20 years the 'Noles didn't use the tight end in their offense.  Beau Reliford (or Bo Reliford, depending on how he is spelling it these days) is the clear cut starter of this group, and he is the best the 'Noles have had in quite some time.  But there is a massive dropoff between Reliford and the remaining tight ends.  There could definitely be some trimming of the fat in this group, and if it weren't for the relative position scarcity, there could be a lot more cuts made at this position. 

Matt Dunham is the obvious candidate.  He was not a Fisher recruit, having been a product of the 2005 recruiting class and attending most of the JUCOs in the Southeast.  Bowden welcomed him back on this team after a multiple year stint at JUCO, but Dunham is wildly out of shape and not a contributor at all.  If he wants playing time, a transfer is in order.  The guy did at one point have some talent, but few believe he can make a significant contribution at this late stage in his career.

Little is an interesting case.  He had a lazy streak that was really evident in his first year and a half at FSU.  Then the kid kicked it into gear, and a light bulb came on.  Unfortunately, he also got sick right about that time, and that served to hamstring the guy and diminish some of the strength gains he was making towards the end of the off-season program.  And it was doubly unlucky because he had slacked through much of the previous off-season work.  Little is also from Tallahassee's Lincoln High, an important recruiting hotbed for Florida State.  Little looks to be safe this year because FSU has absolutely no depth at this position, but he absolutely must fully buy in to the program this off-season, put on the necessarily bulk, and just commit.  

As for the two listed recruits, they aren't expected to contribute immediately, and both would probably need a redshirt.  Tye is not yet committed but I'm betting Coley hauls him in.  There's also a grades issue with him, but given how raw he is, and the numbers game of which this article details, it wouldn't be a horrible thing for him to do a year of prep school and then enroll at FSU in January 2011.   

On a final note, the lack of depth at tight end almost mandates that FSU use more 3 and 4 wide receiver sets, and that means retaining Commack for 2010 at least.

Offensive Line

Ah, the best-looking guys on the field. 

Ideally, 14 or 15 offensive linemen should be on the roster.  Offensive line depth is key but not for rotation purposes.  No, offensive line depth is crucial because there is a heavy attrition rate at this position from year to year and injuries frequently happen.  The number will obviously vary from season to season as the team will need to adjust for graduation.  Rick Trickett rebuilt the offensive line from what was accurately described as "the absolute worst offensive line of any school in a BCS conference (64 teams)."  Under the new strength program, his line should be the best in the country, and as an article later this week will detail, it was already the best in the conference in some time.  I also expect the new strength coach to get these guys to stop drinking so much beer.  Let's have a look at the line's makeup:

SR JR SO FR
Rodney Hudson Andrew Datko Rhonne Sanderson (Rs) Henry Orelus (Rs)
Ryan McMahon Zebrie Sanders Antwane Greenlee (Rs & Med Rs)
Garrett Faircloth (Rs)
Brandon Davis David Spurlock Blake Snider (Rs)
Andrew "AJ" Ganguzza (Rs)
Bryan Stork (Rs)
Random Recruit
Random Recruit (optional)

Here, the cut has already been made.  Freshman John Prior went back to Ohio.  He had an immediate family member with some very serious health issues, and that understandably also caused some homesickness.  While some kids are bad apples, Prior was a good guy who clearly belonged at home with his family, and our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.  

Expect FSU to take 1 or 2 offensive linemen this season.  Next season, however, with assuming FSU takes 1 lineman this recruiting class and assuming attrition of 1 and graduation of 3, FSU will likely take 3 offensive linemen (maybe 4).  While that might seem like a bunch, consider that the recruits will likely see the entire offensive linemen make 1st or 2nd team all-conference, and Hudson is a lock for an All-American slot and a 1st round selection. 

Conclusion

We already know that barring some serious miracle (and it would need to be a damn quick miracle given that the players begin off-season training Monday), Prior is gone.  I would expect that Cam Wade will be encouraged to seek another institution of higher learning.  At this point, however, it seems that an overwhelming majority of Fisher's recruits have a place on the team and are in line to contribute.  Tomorrow, I'll detail the defensive side where transfers should be heavy.

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Thanks for the great read!

I’m looking forward to the defensive piece where you note that all the DTs will transfer because of being dumb and not making grades :) That’s a joke btw before anyone gets fiesty!

by StM on Jan 11, 2010 2:41 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Insomnia pays off again.

There’s good reason I keep a near permanent TN tab open on any computer.

by l0stnumber on Jan 11, 2010 2:57 AM EST reply actions  

Freshman OL

Why do you think Trickett will run one of the freshmen off? They are all his guy’s and some of them made it through his practices this season. I guess I thought if he was going to weed one out he would have done it already.

by vegasnole9399 on Jan 11, 2010 5:59 AM EST up reply actions  

it's just the rep he has

runs off even his own guys if they aren’t producing

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

which of his own guys who've survived the first semester

has he run off since coming to FSU? The ones I recall were run off before pre-season ended (one before it started).

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 11, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

that's a good point

Grosso wanted out 1 week into pre-season, and then the infamous Aubrey Phillips case.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

He also..

Ran Will Furlong off as well. Then of course he rode Brandon Davis hard to the brink, but Davis did a 180, became a valuable asset for the O-line and now Trickett respects the hell out of him. Plus I would venture to say that had it not been for Evan Bellamy’s career ending issue with the blood clot in his leg, one of our current O-linemen either would have transferred, rode the pine his entire stay at FSU or been ran off by Trickett.

by CPNole on Jan 12, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Less beer drinking

Nice write-up.

The defense will be much more interesting as Jimbo had less influence over that group, and the old coaching philosophies may have kept some younger guys on the bench just because they were younger. That leaves evaluations less to game tape and more to attitude and work ethic.

Considering the development of the line over the past two seasons, why do you think beer drinking is an issue for the o-line?

I’m pretty sure all college O-linemen drink too much beer…for that matter don’t most all college students drink too much beer?

Although if your point is more about controlling the drinking like the better schools try to control the weed smoking, I see your point.

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Jan 11, 2010 7:05 AM EST reply actions  

Trickett

The word I hear is that at WVa and at FSU he demands excellence and obedience.
Who was the previous O-line coach? We can always go back to the early part of this decade.

by jwc4fsu on Jan 11, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

O'Hale

Who sucked.

Before that was Heggins, who actually produced a couple AA’s the year before he was canned. He was Fredo’s scapegoat and has been praised for the job he’s done at UK by their coach (whatever that old guy’s name is that just retired).

by tricknole on Jan 11, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

and heggins was let go by joker

by fsw83 on Jan 12, 2010 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Heggins was not a good coach.

He was seemingly a good recruiter, but NFL scouts consistently commented on how poorly coached our OLs were. I don’t think that was a bad decision to let him go — just that it was a small part of the overall problem, and the solution for that particular case (McHale) ended up worse than the original problem.

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Plus we wanted Trickett then also - Trickett was our 1st choice in 2004

when we replaced Heggins, he just chose not to come.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

hammer time = weight gain

While I have no inside knowledge, I’m sure the guys would just explain it as their way to keep their weight up during the season :)

I do firmly believe the new nutritional program for the team will help offset some of the drinking and other bad habits.

There was an interesting article in Sports Illustrated over the summer that dealt with the working out, nutrition, and how the guys that leave the game deal with their weight. I think it is relevant to our discussion on player develpoment, and the new S&C changes:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/george_dohrmann/06/03/shedding.pounds/1.html

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Jan 11, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice article

Hadn’t seen it before – great read. Nutrition is really the lost art when people (myself included) work out.

by bdahern on Jan 11, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I also think it's important to mention what Gehres has sacrificed for the team.

He agreed to take a Greyshirt as well as a Redshirt. He can’t possibly be expected to be cut if he’s not be able to participate on anything other than the practice squad.

SCALP 'EM SEMINOLES!

by DA-2 on Jan 11, 2010 7:33 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Every write up I’ve read on the Gehres kid said that he catches everything thrown his way. If that is true how can you keep him off the field? Ok maybe he isn’t as fast as Burt Reed or as athletic as Fortson but there has to be some role on the team for a kid that has good hands. Great read by the way. Can’t wait to get your take on the defensive side of the ball.

by vegasnole9399 on Jan 11, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions  

There are plenty

of top notch receivers at BCS schools and in the NFL who aren’t speed burners but catch everything thrown at them.

Having a reliable, clutch possession receiver to balance out the speed guys only makes our offense more dangerous. I hope the kid sees some action in 2010.

Chop it up Seminoles!

by horsepowernole on Jan 11, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions  

didn't this kid

have something like 35 receptions for 1000 yards in high school? He wasn’t fast but nobody could run him down in the videos…

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

He is the epitome of a possession receiver

I think he finds a good niche here. People shouldn’t give up on him.

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

From all I have read Gehres and Fortson both run a 4-6 forty

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

And Fortson doesn't catch everything thrown his way

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

With Gehres it may be a body issue

Lets see what Vic can do with him…

From what I’ve seen he still looks like a glorified HS kid

by Trus1te on Jan 11, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I was thinking....

Although after the impossible catch in the Gator Bowl (my current comp. background) we should probably lay off of him. At least until he screws up again. ;-)

2010 ~ The Year of the Spear

by PhillyNole on Jan 11, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

totally agree….in the mold of a Ed McCaffrey

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 11, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

and...

Drew Bennett, Brandon Stokley, Matt Jones, Kevin Curtis, Joe Jurevicius, Brian Finneran, Ricky Proehl, Marc Boerigter, Chris Collinsworth, Wayne Chrebet, Bill Shroeder, Don Beebe, and Wes Welker.

Process > Results

by TBfisherman on Jan 11, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

Jordan Shipley, Fred Biletnikoff, Tim Dwight

by tdchrisdavis on Jan 12, 2010 2:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Matt Jones

Should not have the privelage of being in the conversation with these other WR. No clue how to run a route, just blazing speed.

Oh, and throw in Tom Waddle. That guy would go anywhere on the field to get the ball.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 7:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Steve Largent?

and how does he compare with Kenny Shaw?

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Gehres sounds like

a Matt Friar type. Could use someone like that.

by jwc4fsu on Jan 11, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I can see it now

Defensive discussion:

“Have them all transfer minus 3 guys. We are gonna play ironman football baby”

Nice read today Bud.

by Miaminole on Jan 11, 2010 7:43 AM EST reply actions  

Nice read

Defense will be funny wonder who will or should be cut.

by atlnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 7:47 AM EST reply actions  

i love ty jones

man the kid can play

i just dont get the debbie downers

by Mr. Seminole on Jan 11, 2010 8:00 AM EST reply actions  

He really dominated the Gator Bowl didn't he? Oh wait.

When Ty Jones handles his business, he is a quality running back.

He has not shown that he can consistently take care of his nutrition.

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Jimbo is implementing a nutrition program, which should help.

Diabetes can be a difficult thing to control depending on how severe it is, and it is especially difficult if you do not have someone who can help you. Several pro athletes have it, so there is no reason to think that his condition cannot be brought under control. Controlling it at this level of competition requires some coaching and guidance. I don’t know, but I don’t think he’s had coaching and guidance about how to control his condition. Am I wrong on that?

by NoleLaw on Jan 11, 2010 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I honestly do not know the answer, but will use this opportunity to make an old people joke...

If there’s anything our coaches should have been able to teach, it’s how to deal with the ’beetus.

(Calm down, people. My family has a history of diabetes too. It’s just a joke.)

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Runs in my family too

My father went (legally) blind from it many, many years ago when I was in the 7th grade. Forced him into early retirement.

He is now a cancer survivor (an on medicine to keep it from recurring), a heart patient (metal stints), blind, and a diabetic. The various medicines keep his diabetes out of whack. 911 is on speed dial and the paramedics have to come revive him from low blood sugar several times per year (6 or more). He constantly sees various doctors. It’s just difficult to control. I can only imagine how hard it must be if you burn calories like a D1 or pro athlete.

by NoleLaw on Jan 11, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry to hear about your father, but he clearly has extenuating circumstances that make it more difficult to manage his diabetes than Ty Jones has (from an outsiders' perspective).

If Ty faces similar challenges, then I apologize.

I just think there’s a weird double standard in society.

If a guy has a history of alcohol abuse or drug addiction and he is caught using, then we attack him for being such an idiot or a scumbag or a waste of space (depending on the circumstances).

If a fat person (such as myself) continues to eat unhealthy foods (such as myself), knowing the consequences of an imbalanced diet (such as myself), not many people have the same visceral reaction.

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”

If someone with diabetes (not necessarily Ty) is mismanaging their diet, and knows the seriousness of the consequences, it is probably just as foolish as a heroin addict looking for a fix.

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

That being said, I am not in favor of "cutting" Ty AT ALL.

If he can’t get things under control then I would be in favor of a medical disqualification that allows him to continue his education but not count against our scholarship total.

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

I just know that Diabetes can be a hard thing to control depending upon the severity and the amount of exercise. I know some diabetics who are fat as hell and don’t do a damn thing to try to control it, but it doesn’t affect them too much because their diabetes is not very severe.

On the other hand, the first time my father went into insulin shock was before the cancer (which required the removal of the top 1/3 of his stomach) and before the heart stuff. It came from the exercise of walking around malls all day Christmas shopping. He felt his blood sugar getting low and ate some candy, but I guess it wasn’t enough. It was partly my fault because he wanted to grab an ice cream around 4:30 or 5 in the afternoon and I told him we shouldn’t because it would spoil our dinner and my mother would be pissed. He didn’t tell me he wanted the ice cream because his blood sugar was getting low. That was over 20 years ago. He has always had to take at least three injections of insulin a day.

Maintaining proper blood sugar levels while competing at the D1 level is not something that a non-professional can coach. IMO It’s something that medical doctors, trainers, and nutritionists will have to teach him. Jimbo has been talking about giving our guys the support they need to succeed. Hopefully Ty will do well with that support.

by NoleLaw on Jan 11, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Low-Carb is the answer

No more Sugar baby. Gotta keep that Glycemic index down (just ask the Dan Marino)

by CelticPride on Jan 11, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

actually, yes

definitely some merit there. and i’ve lost 15-20 lbs doing it.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

If FSU lands Mack Brown

Jones will quickly be shown the door.

He is behind JT, Pryor, and Thomas on the depth chart. Plus Smiley is coming in.

However, we won’t get Brown. I still see Jones finishing his college career somewhere else.

by NIU on Jan 11, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

im thinking FSU uncensored

is really Jimbo Fisher, the choice of words and tone are the same as fisher
but i cant figure out where he finds the time.
but its a great inside look

Rquest: save ty jones please, i think he is something special.

anjd in summary, those GONE are

Definitely

pressley
wade
Matt Dunham

Possibly
Will Secord
Ty Jones
Avis commack
Little
greenlee (transfer)

by Mr. Seminole on Jan 11, 2010 8:24 AM EST reply actions  

Ty Jones

I agree the kid has a ton of talent, but if he isn’t willing to committ to his own personal health, why should FSU committ to him?

That is just realism.

Chop it up Seminoles!

by horsepowernole on Jan 11, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions  

i was extremely high on Carlton while walking out of Lavell Edwards Stadium

But then he turned around and layed down a depressing performance against South Florida (against players we probably grew up with). Our entire team sucked that hot afternoon, but an inspired performance by Ty would’ve been huge.

(Side Note: I’m glad we lost some of the games when you look at the forest and not the trees. Crisis precipitated change. Sad but true)

by The K-Man on Jan 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Remember, we pretty much took a long shot when we offered Jones a scholly

Plus we had serious depth concerns at the time. I don’t think that’s a problem now.

by FSUjab on Jan 11, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Same thing

I was going say this like two weeks ago. It is mysterious how FSUun says something and then it comes to fruitation. Either way I love the insight.

by Mateo9399 on Jan 11, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

How important is that?

I only ask that because we have one of the best football APRs in the conference. http://cfn.scout.com/2/662764.html

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

not sure

telling momma’s you graduated X% of kids does help, however, in recruiting

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

it may be one of the best

but given the academic integrity scandal and the unfair stain that ESPN report made, the better we can get such statistics up the next couple of years, the quicker we can get that stuff behind us, and the better for countering the negative recruiting that results from those blemishes.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 11, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure

But a lot of that we can sidestep now by having a new head coach.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

It pisses me off that Dunham claims a scholarship.

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 8:46 AM EST reply actions  

amazing read

Just when u say ‘hey, what else is there to read about noles football?’ You get an in depth amazing article…as always, thanks!

by LETSGONOLES on Jan 11, 2010 9:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

+1

Great job FSun! Can’t wait for the defensive side of the ball.

by FloridaStateJay on Jan 11, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the cuts on the offense will be limited. I don't see Ty Jones going anywhere.

I think Wade has to be on the list. Others are debatable.

Defense?

I have to think most of the cuts would come in the secondary and we are forced to retain bodies at positions due to depth.

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 9:13 AM EST reply actions  

A lot will depend on recruiting there

It will determine how many we’ll be able to cut and still have acceptable depth. We’d prefer to cut kids who aren’t buying in or getting it done in favor of recruits, but only if depth allows it.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Right,

And currently the recruiting isn’t suggesting much will be serviceable for next year.

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

As far as DBs go? Harris and Joyner are two guys in this class that will have an immediate impact

Several of the others are young guys (Moody, Harley, Demps, Reid, Alexander, Rhodes) Parks and Allen will be juniors, with Jenije being the senior in the group.

Whether the older guys get cut or transfer will likely depend upon how well everyone is playing the mental game—reads and decision-making. That’s something I don’t care to try to predict. Maybe Alexander transfers, but other than him, I don’t see any of the young gyus getting the boot.

by NoleLaw on Jan 11, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Jenije

it wouldn’t bother me at all to see him not on the field. He was only overshadowed by Mangum last year in his inability to be an effective player.

Chop it up Seminoles!

by horsepowernole on Jan 11, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Scheme, scheme, scheme

And most corners would look bad compared to P-Rob

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

He’s a good corner back. Being asked to cover a receiver for 6+ seconds during man coverage while also being worried about the potential for the run wasn’t his fault

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 11, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

It really just goes to show how good P-ROB was.

by scotradamus on Jan 11, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely disagree

I am a big fan of the Colts and for YEARS all I get to watch is cover-2 zone. Thats exactly the kind of corner Jenije is. He is better then average when he is sitting in a zone and asked to come up and make a play. What he lacks is the route recognition when he is in the backpedal and elite speed. Dont act like Reid was anything special as a corner last year either. I think a year with Stoops and your opinion will be different.

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Exactly. We will finally play more zone this year to keep people in front and use our athletic ability to come up and make plays. I think we will zone blitz more in general as well in our attempt to be multiple. The biggest thing IMHO is that we will put athletes in position to make a solid football play (er….. tackle).

by FSU on Jan 11, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

In fact, I don’t care if Stoops spends the entire spring practice teaching our defense to tackle! I would very much like us to use more zone defense; however, no defense works if you can’t tackle the ball carrier.

by mountain renegade on Jan 11, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Jenije

Guy would be drafted in the top 4 rounds based of ability, now if he puts it together he can still make it that high in the draft if not then 6 or 7th. You guys are not realizing he was put in a position to fail.

by 21nole24 on Jan 11, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Bingo

And 21nole24 played college ball, so not to say that he is the expert to end all experts, but he does follow us closely and watches the secondary.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Jenjie will fit in with Stoops myself

With Reid it appears to me he could vastly improve open field tackling.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And scheme

When’s the last time we had a safety who actually looked good out there?

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris Hope?

And he looked better professionally

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If I recall correctly

McFadden was a pretty darn good college corner. I remember hearing a stat that he only gave up one passing TD in his career, but I can’t verify that. I was a fan of his body of work though.

by moneyNOLE24 on Jan 11, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

B-MAC was great for us

You just didn’t hear much about him because nobody threw at him. He definitely didn’t get trashed.

by samnite on Jan 11, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Depending how recruiting closes out ...

since Trickett supposedly recruits athletic linemen, if DT recruiting doesn’t close well in the next 3 weeks, I could see one of those redshirted FR move to the defense. Bryan Stork might be best suited – as a former TE and his 6-6 frame, he might adapt well to DT, or if the size doesn’t come this off-season, DE.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 11, 2010 9:32 AM EST reply actions  

TE would be the easy transition

DE would be more difficult, and Stork at DT would define desperation

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

A couple of points

1) I think Greenlee will stay. Zebrie didn’t totally overwhelm me with his play this year and Greenlee could possibly beat him out. Also I think Greenlee should be a very good candidate for a 6th year given he missed 1 season with a neck injury and this past season with a knee injury.
2) I believe I red that Tye is in prep school now, so if he doesn’t get his grades in order now its off to JUCO

by Quentin C on Jan 11, 2010 9:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

With any injury to Sanders

Not having Greenlee would be catastrophic. If he goes anywhere my opinion is it will be of his own accord.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Hudson

While the guy is a great player and will certainly play on Sundays, I doubt he gets drafted in the first round. NFL teams rarely take guards in the first round. The first OL pick other than a tackle in 09 was pick #51 by Buffalo in the second round (Andre Levitre, Oregon St).

Tackles, on the other hand…3 in the 1st round of the 09 draft, 7 (!) in the 1st round of the 08 draft, 2 in 1st round of the 07 draft, etc etc.

by cpolumbo on Jan 11, 2010 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

It will be tough,

but there have been 1st round non tackles in many of the past years, and Hudson is already the #1 guard prospect for 2009, and should improve for 2010.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

What is the real story with Pressley?

On paper this guy was head and shoulders better than any other RB. Couldn’t wait to get him here. Finally get transcripts accepted. First hit and blows out an ACL. He redshirsts. Next season he gets a carry against USF and they turn the kid inside out. Never saw or heard from him again. Is he just soft or was he talent overrated?

by Jbeau on Jan 11, 2010 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

sometimes

depending on the details, it takes two years to recover from an ACL injury.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 11, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Are we sure TP won't get a 6th year as well?

I think it may have been strategic that they benched him post-concussion vs. USF to leverage another ’shirt. I think he meets qualifications for % of season played.

Still too many backs jammed into too few years for us, but for his sake another year of eligibility wouldn’t be a bad thing.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

I never heard that he had a concussion. Just knew that he never touched the ball again. That was one of the biggest hits of the year.

by Jbeau on Jan 11, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Pressley played after the USF game

I can’t remember what game it was (maybe Clemson), but I think he was in and had a perfect screen set up for him and he dropped it. I don’t think he’s eligible for a 6th year after playing that late into the season.

by Frieds2222 on Jan 11, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

sixth years

are dependent on how many games you’ve missed due to injury. Unlike the first year of medical hardship, where you can’t apply for one if one plays after 25% of the season is completed.

So given Pressley missed one season – that’s 12 games. He’d have to have missed another 12 games due to injury to get the sixth year — meaning he’d have to be hurt and miss 12 minus the number of games missed in 2009. If he missed any in JUCO due to injury and that is well-documented that games missed were due to injury, that would count toward the 24 games.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 11, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

his first career carry against BYU would've been a TD if not for Goodman's friendly fire.

The big hit vs.USF was disappointing. He was supposedly our heaviest back, and he got whacked like he was Bert Reed. With so few reps, that can happen to a green player.
I also remember him dropping a well-schemed screen pass in one game. Pressley was pressing (pun intended).

by The K-Man on Jan 11, 2010 11:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i wanna see more of pressley, i hope he makes it

"theres two types of people in this world, those who CARRY a spear and those who FEAR the spear"-James Coley

by jfree on Jan 11, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Why does everyone keep saying that our O-line is so good?

If we have such a good O-line, why aren’t we putting up better rushing numbers. We do okay against the weaker competion but nothing against top 20 teams.

by Jbeau on Jan 11, 2010 10:00 AM EST reply actions  

FSUn will have some good graphs and stats for you

They’re actually very, very good. Not many teams run more consistently or effectively than we do.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

If people are looking for someone to consistently run all over Clemson, UNC, Miami, and Florida

and still have an elite level passing game… that’s not happening.

I think people just want to complain. We have an amazing offense and run the ball very effectively.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Those teams have

Daeqwon Bowers,Marvin Austin, Allen Bailey, Cunningham,and Dunlap. All D-lineman who will be drawing checks in the league. You’re not running on teams with those guys on their roster

by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

how many teams are shredding elite defenses in the ground, and if they are, what does their passing game look like?

Again, to what games after BC are you referring?

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

When an elite defense like UNC decided to take away the run

we threw… for 395 yards.

And if you remember, in that game, we were down huge early and the defense couldn’t keep UNC off the field. Draining the clock was highly ideal.

We Put up 6.7 yards per play against UNC! The next best team managed 5.7. That’s 17% per better on every snap than the next best team! Only one other team put up over 5.

So the most total yards on UNC of any team despite few snaps. Victory.

Who scored the most points on UNC? FSU

A lot of rushing yards come at the end of the game when trying to protect a lead. Unfortunately, FSU rarely had a saltable lead because they had the 108th worst defense in the conference.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed, want the balance

I think we have a chance to average 200/game rushing and 200/game passing next year. Obviously it won’t work out to 200 rushing and 200 passing in each game, but I think we can get there. 2500+ in each category is a very reachable target for this O in 2010 IMO.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 11, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

When you have the best offense seen in the ACC in the last ten years

How much explanation is needed for the astute football aficionado?

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

There's only 3 times when a team NEEDS to be able to run the ball IMO.

1) Short yardage
2) Goal-line
3) To burn the clock and shorten the game in the 4th quarter.

by ThatDudeDan on Jan 11, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

WHen the other team is smaller than you are...

Seriously…Running the ball huge… Its just usually the number 1 thing teams like to take away

Defenses would prefer you pass it all day

Running success is almost always guaranteed where as passing success is a -1 0 1 type of thing

by Trus1te on Jan 11, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

4)

When you’re GT playing FSU.

by StM on Jan 11, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

Worst defensive game in CFB history, for both sides.

by FLAK8 on Jan 11, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess agree to disagree

I did in a previous post say that against UNC we did well. USF, BC, Clempson, UF (granted w/o Ponder gameplan was limited) was a different story.

by ryandinho on Jan 14, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't say that

just said how many teams are shredding elite defenses in the ground, and if they are, what does their passing game look like?

Again, to what games after BC are you referring?

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Playstation anyone?

It’s easy to forget what an ‘effective’ offense is when you put up 200 yards rushing and 400 passing on UF or UNC during your simulated season in only 40 plays.

by BAMFnole on Jan 11, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember my old FSU championship dynasties...

Where D’Vo was a 2-time Heisman winner and set the NCAA record for career TDs. Oh, those were the days.

by basaltrock on Jan 11, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Xavier Lee needed a coach like me.

I think he won 3 MNC/Heismans by the time I was done with him.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 11, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Daron Rose and Damon McDaniel both turned into 99s on ncaa08

Pretty sure Anthony Leon did too. I think Leon was a 2 time all-american for me.

by tdchrisdavis on Jan 11, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Markus White was a 99 for me

Monster pass rush specialist who set NCAA sack records

by basaltrock on Jan 11, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Xavier Lee ran for over 1000 yards one year for me

Highly-touted Christian Herring was a bust though. He was a 5-star dual threat QB but he threw way too many interceptions.

Roman Thomas won the heisman his sophomore year, he was a part of a sick RB class where I got the top 2 RB recruits. He was #2, the guy that was #1 was also a big bust.

Good times.

by tdchrisdavis on Jan 11, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm gonna agree with Tito

XL couldn’t be stopped when I was at the helm. By his senior season, I was able to simply call the option, and run around all the ACC defenses, Ponder style.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 11, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think what is defined as "success" versus an elite defense....

is only marginally better than what we did this year. Huge difference between pulling in 3.5 yards on 1st and 2nd down versus 3. Think to LSU grinding it out and breaking defenses’ backs with Hester, and that’s what we will hopefully be seeing with 10+ lbs across the board on the OL and the addition of Smiley to the backfield.

Further, I believe once you’re able to hammer out those 3.5 yard carries early, it allows you to hold the ball and wear a defense down to the point where you rip off the 20+ yard-ers late.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I would agree with that

my point was that you have to judge the offense in totality. FSU 2008 ran for a lot more than FSU 2009, but it was top 25 good while FSU’s is easily top 10 good.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't arguing against anything you said.

However you define our success this year, I just think our running game will be greatly improved next season.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

But you don't judge an o-line by rushing stats

First the O-line doesn’t call run or pass. Second a lot of the blocks that decide if the run goes for 3 yards or 5+ yards are actually made by the FB or WRs.

So in our case when Clemson or UNC brings a Safety down or brings LBs closer to the LoS we are not going to run. It only makes sense to do that when your offense is designed like Alabama’s which we are not. Also when we can’t get the other team off the field, like we couldn’t in most games, we have to score fast to get back into the game. Lots more went into our rushing stats besides the Oline.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Lots of good points IMO
It only makes sense to do that when your offense is designed like Alabama’s which we are not.

And trust me, Bama wishes they could throw it even half as well as us.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

when Clemson or UNC brings a Safety down or brings LBs closer to the LoS we are not going to run.

See, that’s where I differ in my outlook, and demonstrates the manner by which I see us moving up to ‘another level’ next year. We played cat and mouse this year — very effectively with Ponder reading defenses — but I think (hope) we make the next leap towards being able to continue running at a team when they are expecting it and bringing 8 in the box next year. Then the play action throws get really, really fun.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree to an extent

but when you throw it as well as we do, if teams want to play 8box against us, it is sort of dumb to repeatedly attempt to run. While you may be successful, will you be ass successful as throwing against that look?

In 2008 we ran and as a response in 2009, teams sold out against our run.
In 2009, we threw when teams made it obvious they were trying to stop the run.
In 2010, you will see the best offense in the country.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like the lead to a summer blockbuster ;)

I agree entirely with the 2008-2010 progression.

The nuances that are available to you when you can perform, regardless of what the other team presents, are exciting. Forces other teams to get stupid and gamble, get down by a lot as a result, and so the snowball builds.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

how do you reconcile your notion that FSU will not have another MNC in your lifetime..YET

FSU is capable of having the best offense in the nation with a lot of 2, 3, and 4 star recruits?

If FSU is capable of having the country’s most potent offense, are they not capable of doing the same or close to the same (not next year though) on defense ?

It seems FSU is capable of attaining superiority on one side of the ball with less talent than uf or Bama ( schools you like to say FSU has no chance of competing with) but that wont ever translate to regular victories against those teams on the field?

i am not trying to be argumentative with you, just trying to understand the gloomy forecast regarding FSU’s MNC potential on one level, yet lauding FSU’s ability to have the bes toffense in the country on the other.

I know it takes more than just having the best offense one year, or the best defense another year, but I just dont understand how you make the 2 jive.

by Egret on Jan 11, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He came around

He has decided that it is possible for FSU to win the MNC but like pretty much every team the odds are never in your favor. If we win 4 out of 10 over UF in a decade, and combine that with winning the ACC 7 out of 10 years then you just need to hope for both in a single year and that gets you in the BCS title game. Once in the game anything can happen.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 11, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Bingo
If we win 4 out of 10 over UF in a decade, and combine that with winning the ACC 7 out of 10 years then you just need to hope for both in a single year and that gets you in the BCS title game.

To 850’s statement I give a Super Uber Capitalized THIS

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

See I disagree

if our athletes are better then theirs. Wouldn’t you be excited that you could exploit their weakness. For instance go back and look at my Colts. Every single time there is fewer then 7 in the box Peyton runs the ball. If there are 8 in the box he never calls a run.

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

And its not like the Colts have any running game to write home about

But when you have fewer then 7 in the box we will destroy you. The colts offense is one that is similar in type to our Noles. When they play back, beat them runnning, when they try to stop the run, crush them threw the air.

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a luxury when you have a QB like Manning or Ponder.

But this won’t always be available to us.

The point I value that you may be discounting is lead protection, as others have noted. When you have 10 points in the second half, and don’t have to pass, especially under the new clock rules, you greatly increase your odds of winning. In fact, I think the Colts are vulnerable this year, despite their record, because this attribute is lacking.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Why run against 8

…when you can pass against 3?

Think of the defensive scheming that accompanies Safeties dropping down into the box:

Cover 1 (man) – One safety deep, CBs on an island (or 3 DBs in one-on-one if you’ve got 3 wideouts)

Cover 3 (zone) – 2 CBs and FS play 1/3 of the field. Responsibilities include taking away the deep ball (i.e., keep player in front of you).

Cover 1 opens up crossing, flag routes (typical against man coverage). Cover 3 opens up a ton of stuff: Bubble screens if DBs are playing too far off the ball, smash routes, deep comebacks and outs. Why settle for 3-5 tough yards when you get at least the same amount from the smallest pass play you’d check to? Bubble screens are one of the highest % throws out there, and CP7 demonstrated an incredible ability to hit the intermediate throws for uber-high %.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Teams would have to really work hard to disguise coverages

The elite Ds (and DCs) try to work this in, but most college teams fight just to train guys to line up properly and remember the play call. The NFL model for this is Baltimore, and they’ve historically given Peyton the most trouble over the years by trying to disguise their coverages.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

LSU is not grinding out much of anything since Fisher left either

The hoi poi want Les Brains fired

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

A couple responses here:

FSUn already published an article demonstrating our sack rate was the lowest in the modern ACC era.

Regarding rushing offense, the problems we did have were primarily a function of size. With the assumption that the “process” behind this issue has been addressed via the hiring of Viloria, I believe most are content to wait until fall to see the outcome with 300+ lb Trickett-coached road graders paired with a 240+ TB in Smiley. I think it will be a pleasing.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Alabama’s O-line allowed for a great rushing attack against Texas but still gave up 5 sacks. If they’re line was so good, they wouldn’t have allowed 5 sacks. See what I did there?

by mhauer on Jan 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

last summer, Trickett suggested that his squad was good, but they were still boys.

He indicated that 2010 was the breakout year. He was hiding a smile, so I think the leap is coming.

by The K-Man on Jan 11, 2010 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

this is an excellent question

i dont see the line as so good.

there were several games we just couldnt move the ball.

we are too light!

by Mr. Seminole on Jan 11, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Well how about some evidence. Any ’’facts’’ or anything like that? Our line is tremendous. I don’t think you have a clue, sorry.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok well here ya go

We had I believe 7 players with 10+ catches. That means our Qb has time to not only read coverage but also distribute the ball all over the place. See when you have one guy getting a ton of the catches the qb is reading that guy and forcing it in which takes less time. When you throw it all over the field like we do its requires the guys up front holding up at the point of attack. The real reason Caz and Bo became so effective in the pass game is that didnt have to stay in and help chip and block Dends or pick up blitzers. As FSUN said please dont be so blinded that you dont look at the whole thing.

by 21nole24 on Jan 11, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

rooster analysis

This review of the FSU offense is very insightful and well-written.

BraveNole

by IamBraveNole on Jan 11, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

Your typo actually scared me a bit. I had to look up at the title and make sure that I hadn’t typed “rooster” myself. Was going to be pretty angry if none of the TomahawkNation readers had pointed it out until you, being that it’s about 11 on the East Coast.

Welcome, glad you found us.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Oops....I meant 'roster'.

Hey, please give me a break on my first post here. Where’s the edit button? Pray tell.

BraveNole

by IamBraveNole on Jan 11, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

heh... we don't have one unfortunately.

And I don’t think Uncensored meant to pick on you. He just has bad spelling sometimes and was afraid he’d spelled it that way.

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I did not mean to pick on him

I often write this stuff late at night after I finish my classwork and was really hoping I hadn’t flubbed the title.

Definitely no harm intended. Welcome.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Lol welcome

As of yet, we have no edit button

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

A comment on Trickett and the OL

Last year, we were pummeled in the media (and by opposing defenses) for having poor pass protection. The improvement between last year and this year’s OL pass protection is nothing short of phenomenal.

That is further cemented in the improvement in Sacks Allowed. In 2008, we gave up on average 2 sacks allowed per game. This year, we averaged 1.54. This constituted an improvement from 66th to tied for 39th. Even more amazing is when you factor in that that we’ve had the #12 and #6 SOS (2008 & 2009, respectively). I’d go on a limb to say that factoring in SOS, there statistically are only a handful of teams better at protecting the QB than FSU’s.

Well done, boys. Trust in Trickett. Who cares about stars systems now?

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:02 AM EST reply actions  

I trust in star systems.

Our OL is good, but it would be better with Xavier Nixon.

by MattDNole on Jan 11, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I think I commented to this effect on a Gator recruiting lamentathon, but...

I think OL is the one position where coaching/development > potential. At least if we’re talking about guys with a decent frame. While that LT spot does indeed take special genetics to reach a truly “elite” level, for most other slots it is more about hard work and intelligence (again, given the assumption of a certain caliber athlete).

I also took this point a step further to broach the issue that this might be an area where we could potentially be able to partly overcome a talent disparity with UF.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Boatman came from JUCO pre-trickett and started for us, did a poor job but was all we had.

Daron Rose flunked out from FSU and then out of JUCO as well after starting for us for a season (kentucky bowl year)

Phillips was asked to show up at 300 or less lbs (given 6 months to go from 320ish to 300), instead showed up at 345lbs. Couldn’t even run, walked through drills, dismissed. Went to Auburn and i think they basically said wow you’re fat goodbye.

And Hardrick was dumb and very out of shape if I remember.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't Hardrick's mom vocal about it too?

In those days the number of o-lineman leaving was all a blur

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Hardrick put up a NASTY facebook status when it went down

Good riddance to that overweight prick.

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

To a point

It’s not like Trickett isn’t recruiting 5*s. Guys have to buy into his system before they step onto campus. For that reason, I’ll take the lunch pail kids all day over the entitled ones.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Pass protection was much improved from last year.

Therefore our passing game was much improved to the point that Ponder is mentioned in Heisman chatter. I had hoped that getting the passing game going would then lead to being able to run the ball better than we did. I agree that a large part was the lack of coaching for the backs. I thought it was hillarious that Trickett was leading the meetings with OL and RB’s.

by Jbeau on Jan 11, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

In the games that we threw for 400 yards (and there were many)

We didn’t have any reason to try to run more. Also, we played from behind a whole lot.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't recall seeing -- has Eddie Gran ever worked with Trickett before?

Hoping there is some synergy already in place. Otherwise, what type of running schemes is he familiar with? Hopefully something similar to our zone system.

Might be facing a few bumps along the way in terms of scheme/methods and personality.

by arrdub on Jan 11, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

The Spread Run Game

is all about the 1-cut back. Zone blocking creates 2 lanes: Defenders get blocked and creates a lane for a back, or defenders overpursue, thus opening up a backside to the “wash.” You need a 1-cut back in this system. Gran and Trickett will be eye to eye.

by ricobert1 on Jan 11, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

unfortunately, Ponder fumbled on about 7 or 8 of those few sacks.

Bright side: room for more improvement for the O and his Heisman hopes.

by The K-Man on Jan 11, 2010 11:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Another improvement

Could someone please teach him how to pitch the ball on the option? Our “option” plays with him were keepers with a back running next to him, for all intents and purposes.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

He needs to learn from his own understudy.

When it comes to pitch timing and intangible and instincts, EJ Manuel has a gift that cannot be easily duplicated.
He’s got a lot of Tommy Frazier in him.

by The K-Man on Jan 11, 2010 2:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I am going to remember those stats next time I meet a troll.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to worry...

I help Gene Williams with his typos quite a bit.

BraveNole

by IamBraveNole on Jan 11, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

Update...

got an e-mail indicating that it is very likely Antwane Greenlee will receive the medical redshirt, making him a Sophomore this coming year.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions  

Debrale Smiley

Is Smiley the type of runner that will fit into a scheme with the other backs that we have now or do you think he will be in more one back sets that are created just for him. I am very excited to see what this man can do. We haven’t had back like this guy for a long time.

by Jbeau on Jan 11, 2010 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

He is married with a kid

very mature guy.

I think we will continue to use a lot of 1-back sets, hopefully using more 1-back stuff from under center as well, or pistol.

I don’t think we take a guy who doesn’t fit what we do, but his skillset is different in some ways.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure I like the pistol. Looks awkward.

Sometime this offseason, do you mind breaking down how UA used the pistol this past season? They seemed to have alot of success from that formation despite the awkwardness.

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone likened him to Greg Jones II

We can only hope for as much … I will settle for the second coming of Zach Crockett — LOVED that guy

by Cigar City Nole on Jan 11, 2010 10:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Smiley will fit into most any scheme

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's going to be funny

To see 240 lb Smiley running behind 220ish Pryor. Effective, but funny.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

And in an article in the Democrat

Debrale is saying he wouldn’t mind running in Pryor’s role this past year as he needs to improve his blocking ability if he ever wants to make it in the NFL.

by coonhound on Jan 11, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see him working there some

But I think Jimbo will be too tempted to keep him as a deep guy for him to be there permanently. Plus, Lonnie ended up doing a great job in that position after a tough start.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Which I think is both a testament to the receivers and a byproduct of an offense without a skill position star (excluding QB)

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 11, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

in some ways I agree

but I like how our guys just do their job (do your job signs are going up around the complex)

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Not just one guy

I totally agree… Its better NOT to have a go to guy so that if he gets hurt (eg. Ingram w/ cramps) you just go to the next guy without any drop off.

Having a 1000 yard rusher isn’t a big deal to me. Having an efficient, effective, consistent running attack is.

by FSU on Jan 11, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Think about oregon for a second

What we have is a backfield full of lamichael james types and with smiley we are bringing in the LaGarette Blount type player….minus the strong desire to fight everyone.

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

on film

Smiley looks to be a better back than blount. A step faster if nothing else.

Smiley runs like a train. Blount runs like a plastic jar of jelly

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 11, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Im all about that

But I was trying to give the comparision to why a big back is so important and can still run out of the same spread formations.

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 11, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I was in complete agreement

I just wanted to give some props to Smiley :)

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 11, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It's going to be hard for Smiley to live up to the hype

I obviously hope he does, but the consistent praise I hear about him is nuts.

by Zach_Nole on Jan 11, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

FSUn, you mentioned in another thread that we would

push the guys we couldn’t get to Bama (to keep them away from UF).

Do you think Saban does the same for us? It benefits us both to keep UF down just a little.

by jasonole59 on Jan 11, 2010 12:20 PM EST reply actions  

I have said the same many times.

Bama and the Noles have them in a pincer movement with the “Process”

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Jimbo Fisher's competitiveness has done nothing to convince me that he is into high roster turnover

While he will trim the fat, I do not expect to see egregious abuse of the roster rules like Butch Davis @ UNC

by Trus1te on Jan 11, 2010 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

Excellent read

You answered some questions that i had about the roster. I think we had the majority of our turnover on offense last offseason. They all headed to UNA. Cant wait to read tomorrows post on the defense.

by so.fulnole on Jan 11, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm interested to know if Terry and Jimbo have spoken

TB: “Hey Jimbo…howya doin buddy?”
JF: “Good Terry…good season at UNA. Congrats”
TB: “Yeah, yeah…we had a good year. Thanks. Hey listen…I need to ask you about something. I know Daddy isn’t there anymore I was wonderi—-”
JF: “Terry”
TB: "Yeah Jimbo?:
JF: “Stay away from my players”
TB: “OK Jimbo”

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 11, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Understood

I see this as a more classy outfit than some of our competitors.

While some of this may be situational and bad news is bound to come our way, over the course of Jimbo’s tenure I expect it to even out into something memorable and uncontroversial…Unlike that program to the east

by Trus1te on Jan 11, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't wait for the defensive breakdown

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 11, 2010 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Me too

I really need somebody to paint me a picture of how everything is going to turn out OK on our defensive light — I see light at the end of the tunnel on DB and LB, but not DL.

by Fsued on Jan 11, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The looming NFL lockout, that seems like a certainty at this point will definitely play into Jimbos recruiting strategy.

 Juniors next year that could go into the draft obviously will not and that will make an impact on the recruiting needs.

by Egret on Jan 11, 2010 12:38 PM EST reply actions  

Nukeese

What have you heard about him and FSU…he was just handed probation (18 months) today

by Fredric on Jan 11, 2010 5:55 PM EST reply actions  

Do not think we would take him

I know the rumor, its source, and do not believe it to be credible. I’ll leave it at that.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 11, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Good!

Would rather have Jimbo and Dawsey get DJJ up to speed

by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If anyone is dumb enough to believe FSU would take Nukeese Richardson

I feel sorry for them. There is no way FSU could afford that PR shot. Even if the kid stayed out of trouble.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 11, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would the PR shot be so bad?

The only thing I care about is if recruits see something in a bad light. What recruit these days is going to care? I really doubt recruit X would see that Richardson got into FSU and think to himself “whoa, I guess I’ll cross FSU off the list now”

by tdchrisdavis on Jan 11, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

ESPN just got finishing doing a hatchet job on FSU on OTL

We’d take a PR hit from that standpoint, not necassarily with recruits (At least not directly). The program has enough on it’s plate in terms of turning things around ON the field. It can ill afford to acquire a rep as a safe haven for “thugs” and “gun toters”. I mean, can you imagine the headline, Free Ski-mask University? Hell no, don’t need it. The media already doesn’t mind taking it’s shots at us and we need not give them any more ammo. All Richardson has proven to be is a “thug” guntoter and all around dumba**. Let em get his second chance at a Juco or something

by westcoastnolefan on Jan 11, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I were were going to take Nukeese, we could have gone harder after Dunkey....

"If lessons were learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education." -Murray Warmath

by NaGaNole on Jan 11, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

My question is, why do people think we need Nukeese Richardson?

Do people think he’s going to revolutionize the offense or something? What did he prove at Tennessee other than he doesn’t have a stitch of common sense?

We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.

by NoleThruandThru on Jan 11, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey just wondering

what is Greyshirting? I’ve never heard that b4

by willdabeast on Jan 11, 2010 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

It's pretty much the opposite of an early enrollee

You enroll a semester late, so the spring semester of what is your freshman year. You can also redshirt on top of this pushing your eligibility back 2 years.

It counts a scholarship towards the next year, so if you oversign guys you can grayshirt a couple.

by tdchrisdavis on Jan 11, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

As usual, an excellent read

Thanks for the great analysis!

by Cigar City Nole on Jan 11, 2010 9:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

yum

That was tasty. Can’t wait for tomorrows portion.

What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

by Okinole on Jan 11, 2010 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

FSUcen

You rock! Your analysis is spot on and I certainly ca’t wait for the defensive breakdown. The offense never worried me. Actually the secondary doesn’t even worry me. What worries me is talent and depth at DT & DE. I’m praying we pull so supriose studs on or before NSD. I also think the new staff couple with Vic’s S&C program coul makde some 2 & 3 start DT’s into conference AA and maybe even more. These are 17 & 18 year olds kids who haven’t even begun to reach their full potential.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Jan 11, 2010 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

Great work FSUn.

This was just what I needed after a long day. I look forward to tomorrow and the defense.

by pasadenanole22 on Jan 12, 2010 1:49 AM EST reply actions  

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