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Seminole Roster Review: Florida State's Defense 01.12.10

This is a continuation of the roster review series.  It is an attempt to determine which players might leave the team, if any, for a number of reasons.

As noted before, UNC is one of the best/ worst at trimming a roster, and today they did just that as 5 players are no longer with the Tar Heels:

Former prized recruit Jamal Womble is one of five players leaving the North Carolina football program, a school spokesman confirmed Monday.  Womble, a four-star running back from Arizona, has decided to transfer as has receiver Rashad Mason. Tight end Randy White left the program, linebacker Hawatha Bell was dismissed, and tight end Vince Jacobs will graduate in May and leave the program.

The defensive side of the ball presents unique challenges.  First, the defensive players were not asked to work as hard as the offensive kids.  The departed defensive coaches did not demand championship process from the players, and in turn the players did not receive championship level instruction.  Their development lagged far behind that of the offensive players. 

Not surprisingly, the defense ended up as the ACC's worst unit in 6 years (at least 6 years, we didn't have conference-only figures from earlier).  Through their first 5 conference games, they allowed scoring drives of 80, 76, 80, 74, 80, 38, 80, 12, 52, 45, 83, 73, 61, 69, 44, 73, 80, 25, 79, 88, 65, 80, 66, 75, 28, 61, 73, and 59.  And that is just in ACC play!  8 TD drives of 80+ yards!  15 TD drives of 70+ yards!  (more ridiculous perspective on how poor the defense was at the link).  Suffice to say, the defense was horrible. 

Further hurting the development of the young talent, the previous coaching staff was reluctant to play young talent.  Instead they relied on veterans, even when those veterans could not get the job done (Korey Mangum).  This illustrates the problem of immediacy.  When it is more important for a coach to win in the immediate term then to maximize the program's potential, either because the coach is retiring or on the hot seat, then that coach shouldn't be in his position.  

Some coaches even made moves which could be perceived as an attempt to spite the program (see also:  Allen, Jody playing walk-on Craig Yarborough). 

I make no promises as to these predictions and offer this qualifier in advance:  unless the player fails to give championship-level effort in the off-season program, he will be on the roster come Spring so that the player can be instructed and evaluated by competent coaches.  I heard that new defensive coordinator Mark Stoops was disgusted when he watched the film of last year's defense.  He is likely to make major changes to the roster and the scheme. 

In part 1, I predicted that FSU would not retain 2-3 players (including one who had a family issue and has moved home).  Assuming that prediction comes true FSU needs to jettison 4-5 defensive players in order to accommodate the incoming recruiting class and still be under the limit of 84 total scholarships for the 2010 season. 

Defensive Line

Ideally, a team wants to have about 15-17 defensive linemen.  It should be the most numerous group on the team, despite only starting 4 players, as opposed to the offensive line's 5.  The reason for that is three-fold:  defensive linemen rotate a lot to stay fresh, they often get hurt, and they are the position that most frequently encounters academic-related attrition.  Of those 15-17, there should be roughly an equal amount of ends and tackles, with a slight lean in the direction of tackles because outside backers can sometimes become ends, whereas backers cannot become tackles.  As I've detailed for the better part of two years, Florida State's defensive line recruiting from 2006-2007 was atrocious.  The 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes should now be red-shirt seniors and true seniors.  That lack of recruiting is why Florida State finds itself with a less than ideal situation along the defensive line.

Defensive Tackle

SR JR SO FR
Moses McCray Jacobbi McDaniel Cameron Ervin
Anthony "Amp" McCloud (rs) (Spring '10 enrolled) Damien Jacobs
Everette Dawkins (rs)

 

 

Defensive End

Outside of the head coaching position, the biggest coaching upgrade is at defensive end where Darin "DJ" Eliot takes over for the departed Jody Allen.  Allen was terrible and the new coach is very promising.

Sr JR SO FR
Markus White (rs) Jamar Jackson Tosmon Stevens (rs)
Dan Hicks (rs)
Brandon Jenkins (enrolled Spring '09) Darious Cummings
Bjoern Werner
Demonte McAllister (rs)

Star-divide

Linebacker

I settled on 11 linebackers.  Some of our writers believe that 12 is the better number, but with the upper range of defensive linemen and quarterbacks, it wasn't feasible.  Linebacker is a contact position, meaning injury is more likely to occur than at a non-contact position (defensive back).  It is not, however, as injury prone as the defensive line.  'Backers also are not as likely to experience academic attrition issues as defensive linemen.  Additionally, 'Backers are less likely to bust than defensive linemen and defensive backs because their high-school skills more directly translate to the college game.  For those reasons, I chose 11 over 12 as the ideal number for a squad like the 'Noles. 

Chuck Amato did a horrible job recruiting in his return to Florida State.  His performance the 2nd time around was shameful.  He did no recruiting and failed to develop the backers at all.  Because of Amato, FSU is in a huge hole at linebacker. 

SR JR SO FR
Kendall Smith Nigel Bradham Vince Williams (rs) Jeff Luc (Spring '10 Enrolled)
Mister Alexander (rs) Nigel Carr Holmes Onwukaife
Telvin Smith
Nigel Terrel
Christian Jones

 

Defensive Backs

Ideally, FSU should field 13-14 defensive backs.  DB's are not injured as frequently as other defensive positions and rotate the least.  The 'Noles have done a poor job over the last few years, due to Mickey Andrews, of recruiting defensive backs. These charts make it easy to see where the thinning is needed:

Cornerback

SR JR SO FR
Ochuko Jenijie (rs) Dionte Allen (rs) Greg Reid Xavier Rhodes (rs)
Mike Harris (JUCO) Lamarcus Joyner
Terrence Brooks

 

Safety

SR JR SO FR
Terrance Parks Nick Moody (rs) Gerald Demps (rs)
Avis Commack Ed Imeokparia (rs) Justin Bright (rs)
JaJuan Harley Chad Abram

 

Special Teams

FSU has a kicker and punter on scholarship.   I think there are enough soccer players out there for FSU to be able to find a kid to punt the ball and use a scholarship on a player. 

 

The list

Prior, Gresham, and Harriss are gone.  Assuming a class of 29, FSU will not retain 4+ guys from this group:  Matt Dunham, Cameron Wade, Jamar Jackson, Tavares Pressley, Ty Jones (though not Pressley AND Jones), AJ Alexander, and Ed Imeokparia.

 

Final Thought

Bowden ran this program so far into the ground, it is unbelieveable.  People really do not understand just how bad it was when Fisher got here.  Look at the 2007 class, the source of the upcoming seniors and redshirt juniors.  It's the last class before Fisher arrived.  Here are the players the previous staff recruited:

Dionte Allen DB 5-11 175 4.4 6.0
Orchard Lake, MI Frequently injured
Kendall Smith LB 6-1 207 4.5 6.0
Bushnell, FL Starter
Jamar Jackson DE 6-4 225 4.65 5.9
Richmond, VA Injured/ little promise
Zach Hillery OL 6-4 315 4.9 5.8
Chatham, VA Did not qualify/ personal issues
Bernard Brinson DB 5-10 169 4.61 5.7
Greenville, FL Did not qualify/ personal issues
Brian Coulter DE 6-4 255 - 5.7
Poplarville, MS Did not qualify/ personal issues
Will Furlong OL 6-5 275 - 5.7
DeLand, FL Left team (personal reasons / "injury")
Anthony  Grosso OL 6-6 290 5.12 5.6
Matawan, NJ Left team - didn't like football
Maurice Harris LB 6-0 189 4.51 5.6
Homestead, FL career ending "injury"/ attitude
Cameron Wade WR 6-4 180 4.55 5.6
Cairo, GA Terrible player/ terrible attitude
Aaron Gresham LB 6-2 222 - 5.5
Mayo, FL Career ending injury
Shawn Powell K 6-5 215 - 5.1
Rome, GA Punter

13 players and 1 starter!  6 failed to qualify or were booted from the team.  That is horrible. 

Players in the 2007 class brought in by the new staff during 3 week period after joining program before National Signing Day:

Antwane Greenlee OL 6-6 302 5.1 6.0
Columbus, GA Frequently injured, but still considered promising and a valuable backup
Brandon Paul ATH 5-10 185 4.4 5.8
Tallahassee, FL Booted from team- personal issues
Bert Reed ATH 5-11 165 4.4 5.8
Panama City, FL Starter
Jatavious Jackson OL 6-4 270 - 5.6
Belle Glade, FL Left team- personal reasons
Taiwan Easterling ATH 5-11 192 4.4 5.5
Hattiesburg, MS Solid contributor
Rodney Hudson OL 6-2 276 5.22 5.5
Mobile, AL All-American
Jonathan Hannah TE 6-4 260 4.75 5.4
Louisburg, NC Can't read (did not qualify/ personal issues/ repeated JUCO player)
A.J. Ganguzza OL 6-2 260 5.52 5.3
Boca Raton, FL Backup

Hannah is questionable as a recruit for the new guys since he was previously brought in by the old staff.  Still, three starters and several other decent backups.  Amazing what coaching does, huh?

Those guys look worse with each year that passes.  What in the world were those old coaches doing? Only 10 of 20 players are even still on the team!  Are you kidding me?  if you want to see how far FSU has come, compare the '06 and '07 classes (pre-Fisher & new coaches) to Fisher's 1st two classes ('08 & '09).  There is NO comparison.

There are only 10 seniors on this team.  Only 8 were recruited before Fisher arrived. 

This program has come a long way since the the disaster year (2006).  Before a plane can soar it must first be pulled out of its tailspin. 

If someone reminds me, I'll do a story on just how young the team will be this upcoming year, thanks to two awful recruiting classes in 2006 and 2007.

2 recs  |  Comment 578 comments |

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A major credit to Dawsey

Some think we can have a completely clean off-season. I don’t think that’s realistic for an elite level program, but I want a clean off-season without major crimes. No felonies, etc. Someone is going to be a dumbass and shoplift or get an underage drinking citation, etc.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Parker fell asleep at McDonalds

Carlos Dunlap, IIRC, fell asleep at an intersection.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."

by geoffissiffoeg on Jan 12, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Didnt you know

that all UF enrollments gets a dead womans credit card and AK-47? After landing a scholarship, a UF player then must complete: the beating and choking of your girlfriend in attempted homicide, get shot in the leg at 3AM in a park, steal your teammates laptop computers and then run around Gainesville with the AK-47 given upon enrolling busting caps all over the place, the go drink and drive.

by CPNole on Jan 12, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s because they have a good S&C coach.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, you got me.

One out of seven isn’t bad I guess…

by Polk Nole on Jan 12, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i think Brandon jenkins

and Toshmon Stevens have a lot of potential

by fsufrenzy911 on Jan 12, 2010 8:22 AM EST reply actions  

Stevens

looked very good at teh bowl game. made a couple good plays. If he puts on the weight this off season he will be our biggest suprise IMO

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Jan 12, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Call me crazy

But I think White, who was awful, will be the biggest surprise, because his bad play was more due to lack of coaching than lack of size or ability. IMO

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

He had like 25 sacks in one year of JUCO, right?

That’s pretty good at any level. I think the talent is there, but offenses in the ACC exploited him all day long.

by coonhound on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO Everette Dawkins will explode and be the best player on the D next year.

His potential is ridiculous, and he showed the motor and strength playing out of position this year.

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Jan 12, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Dawkins

has HUGE upside too I agree. We has been playing out of position his entire time at FSU. SDE is where he belongs so I’m anxious to see how he does there next year.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Jan 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Jenkins, too

I saw him split a double team on a pass rush twice this season. Freak talent, good size.

by ricobert1 on Jan 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Think he has a better frame, personally.

Wasn’t EB 6’1 at combine? I’ve seen both listed at 6’4, but I think Jenkins is closer to being reality. Hope he can get to a legit 6’3 260+ before he’s done, versus EB struggling to carry 250 (though still a manimal at that size).

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Something like that

Add Viloria’s S&C and some coaching, and he could be the beast we’ve been waiting for.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Stevens is still very raw and has not been coached at all. He was putting on weight under the old regime, and should be a lot better under the new staff.

Besides, the guy played a lot of special teams (I always noticed him on kick coverage). Guys that are 6’5" and can cover kicks have some athletic potential. With coaching and hard work on his part, this guy could be very special over the next few years.

Foosball is the devil

by IAHNole on Jan 12, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I must say

I was looking forward to this analysis much more than the one about the offense because I feel we are moving forward on offense. On defense, we aren’t even a shad eof what we used to be. Your analysis about the recruiting class is spot on, and it amazes me that people still believe we mistreated Bowden et al. All you have to do is look at this kind of stuff and realize we were lucky to even be winning games.

We actually did Bowden a favor by dealing with mediocrity for 8 years and employing him for longer than what he should have. No way a coach survives beyond the 2006 season under normal circumstances. I admit i’m a relatively young fan, but the “you were too young to remember what it was before Bowden got here” really irritates me. We are 10 years into the 21st century and we won’t sniff a title in at least 4-5 years.

by mantanga on Jan 12, 2010 8:23 AM EST reply actions  

"On defense, we aren’t even a shad eof what we used to be."

That is the absolute truth. And I have had discussions with some on here the past week or two who vehemently deny the talent level on the defense being down. BOGGLES my mind.

Bradwell
Fluellen
Johnson
Bunkley
Brown
Moore
Chauncey Davis
Sims
AJ Nicholson
Busta Davis
Church
McGrew
Timmons
McFadden
Watkins
Cromartie
Boston
Burston
Dickson
BJ Ward
Wimbley
Jerome Carter
Leroy Smith
Tony Carter
Willie Jones
Aaron Jones
Trevor Ford
TJ Bryant

That defenses #2’s would’ve been better than our starters this year.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you mean

JR Bryant. TJ Bryant was the CB out of Lincoln that signed with USC, but I get your point.

by mantanga on Jan 12, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

So many names. Yes.

THAT defense is impressive. Ours? Yuck.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow Bud...Are you looking to specialize in Coaching Malpractice cases?

Because you make an excellent argument for bringing some of these coaches up on charges. It ialmost makes one’s stomach turn and eyes wince in pain after reading some of these stats.

How Bowden et al could look in the mirror at the end of the day baffles me. Yet you have blow hards like Dick Vitale running FSU through the mud for making Bowden walk.

Great report and the future is going to be bright.

Thank God for Jimbo Fisher.

by Egret on Jan 12, 2010 8:26 AM EST reply actions  

Great write up. Very insightful.

Looking at that 2007 recruiting class, it’s no wonder we are struggling. That was a TERRIBLE job by the coaches, and IMO, this starts and ends with Bobby Bowden (with an assist to his son Jeff). Good riddance to the former staff. I am glad that Stoops was “disgusted” with what he saw on film when watching the defense. That should be extra motivation for him and the players to become better. This off-season should be very interesting to watch with mat drills and the new and improved S&C program.

by CurtOFD78 on Jan 12, 2010 8:44 AM EST reply actions  

Stuck in the Past!

yall keep blaming the staff thats not there anymore. Move on, FSU coaching staff has and will continue to. It happend it done and over with let Fisher do what he needs to do to get his players in .

by SCNole21 on Jan 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

SCNole-

The staff may be new, but their lack of recruiting and player development will persist for at least two more years.

by coonhound on Jan 12, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Not all of the

past recruits are bad. Let’s keep everything in perspective. UF was very good this year with many of their impact players being underclassmen. With proper coaching and better recruiting/talent, it’s fair to say we can compete for an ACC championship in 1-2 years.

by Polk Nole on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

There are reasons why the general rule of thumb used to be to give a guy 4-5 years

and this is one of them. To quote Parcells (not exact mind you) you cant blame Jimbo for cooking with Bobbys spoiled ingredients.

Jimbo has done an amazing job so far digging us out of a hole, but we are a ways away. This information has to keep being mentioned to make sure noone forgets a year down the road if we arent undefeated and the greatest football team the world has ever seen. People have short memories, and I dont want Jimbo to be forced out or criticized because of the shite job done by the previous regime.

Also, (another inexact quote) if you dont learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. All he is doing is showing the status of that recruiting class. If that doesnt provide you with enough perspective on how things have to be done differently, then you need to focus a little less on being progressive, and live a bit more in history.

by Miaminole on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Stuck in the PAST my foot!!!

The old staff just coached the freakin Jan 1st bowl game!!

Its not a light switch we are talkin about here its a football PROGRAM and programs are BUILT over time. You just can’t plug in a bunch of new components/parts and expect to have a championship calibur team. Take a look at Bama, with all their MONEY and RESOURCES the Tide lost a bunch of games Saban’s 1st year, including one to BB’s FSU team. FSU doesn’t have Bama’s money, nor fanbase, nor resources.

We are in this for the long haul and unless Fisher and Stoops have Harry Potter’s magic wand its gonna take a while to get this thing turned around.

by Diablo_2 on Jan 12, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

And look what they

did in year 2….I don’t think it’s going to take as long as some believe, as long as we get good recruits. I am confident in the coaches ability to teach the kids…

by Polk Nole on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t bet on it. A lot of things have to fall right for that to happen. Also, I don’t think Alabama had as many problems as FSU has.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

They had a 6-7 record

and were 2-6 in the SEC. Mostly all new coaches in 2007. Recruiting was average. Sound familiar?

by Polk Nole on Jan 12, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

we've also already brought about the changes necessary on one side of the ball

I’m not saying we’re going to be “back” next year, but we are probably a little ahead of where Bama was when Saban took over. combine that with a weaker conference, and we MIGHT see results a little sooner.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Bingo

While we have less rabid fan and monetary support than Bama, we definitely are further along.

If I had to rate the 2007 Bama team and the 2010 FSU team, in terms of returning talent, I’d do it like this:

Bama
Offense 70
Defense 80

FSU
Offense 95
Defense 75 (really do believe a lot o this is coaching).

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Did Saban have to change the infrastructure behind the program as much as Jimbo will have to?

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably more

but in different ways. The effort these kids are going to be asked to put in is going to be a big adjustment.

Maybe one advantage we have is that 35 of our kids are used to putting in close to the effort required.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Also Saban had to...

start over recruiting-wise when he came in, while FSU’s recruiting situation is a little more seamless.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 12, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Possibly...

but there is a huge advantage coming in knowing where the weaknesses (talent, coaching) then having to find out during spring ball.

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 12, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think he says "Go on..Outta here"

With that Jacksonville southern accent where words come together.

Roy O + Brett in 2010? Stros are coming for you, Cub/Card fans.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

But "Go on. Outta here." is...

not nearly as awesome as “Boom. Outta here.”

Boom. Outta Here.

by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 12, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Now THAT I can agree with.

Either way, possibly the funniest sound clip in sports history.

“How do you spell that?

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Unrec

Booo. Go Cubbies

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I hear that all the time, because I live in STL (hell)

I would pick the Cubs over Cards, but wish a meteor would crash when they play each other

by FLAK8 on Jan 12, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Possible

It La Russsa is driving the meteor

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I still see our fight as different than Alabama's was.

I just hope the fans don’t expect a similar turnaround (A NC 3 years later).

IMO, FSU and their new staff have more things working against it than Alabama did (The 2 largest being UF’s success and an unproven HC)

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

People can get happy about what Jimbo has in common with Saban and UA but also know the differences. Odds are very much against us pulling two #1 classes like UA did with UF sitting up the road. Unless UF decides to really go national leaving Florida to us we will have to fight a lot harder for talent than UA did. We also don’t have the pull of a NC winning coach.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

We don't need #1 classes. We need top 5-10. And thats easily attainable.

And this isn’t setting the bar low. Once you get to the top 5-10 classes, all you’re usually doing is splitting hairs. A few years recruiting under Jimbo, and the only talent difference between us and UF is (hopefully) that they have a couple extra 5 stars on their bench.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

To a certain extent those recruiting class rankings get a little meaningless. If UF has a #3 team we have a #5 team, it doesn’t automatically equate to a loss.

Also, the perception of the “Mighty SEC” and their TV deal doesn’t help matters. A resurgence in the Miami program, coupled with teams like Clemson, UNC, GT, and VT getting their sh*t straight would help matters.

The ACC sucks…is basically what I’m saying.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely disagree with needing the rest of the ACC to get better

The faster the rest of the ACC gets better, the harder it is for us.

I mean, maybe we want one or two to marginally improve. Look at the Big 10 – its OSU, 1-2 other cupcake eaters, and poo poo teams. All the public wants to see is FSU win a conference with at least one other team that posed a serious threat. Even though beating 7-8 bowl teams would probably be much harder.

I think best case scenario is FSU and VT become perenial top tens, with another team rising up to finish around the top 15 from time to time.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

You'd change your mind as soon as FSU gets passed over

in favor of a Big 12/SEC matchup because their conferences are perceived to be so much better.

Even if we did get by a great UF team, beating a GT/VT team with 2 or 3 conference losses in the ACCCG doesn’t mean much.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think getting passed over has more to do with where the individual team started the previous season.

And I think its going to take 5+ years to change conference perception anyway, and that is if the conference can even get better than SEC or Big 12.

It would be better for us to have a great year getting left out and starting the next season with a high preseason ranking, than it would be to hope we player a tougher schedule year in and year out in an effort to give us a leg up at the end of a particular season.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

BINGO.

I was just typing that.

Even though I know deep down that it could probably never happen, I just don’t want to hear the “Who did they beat besides UF”?

Also, with the emergence of teams like TCU, Boise, and Utah, the odds of a BCS team like FSU getting passed up are increased.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

with the emergence of teams like TCU, Boise, and Utah, the odds of a BCS team like FSU getting passed up are increased.

That was not my point. My point is that if those jokers are making it to the top 5, FSU will not be overlooked.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Pedigree means a lot in CFB

A lot of where you end up is where you start anyway. FSU would basically become like OSU, the favorite to win the conference every year who plays 2 or 3 tough game and will make it if they don’t lose.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but we're more in Michigan's position than OSU

And Michigan is still struggling.

None of this is guaranteed. I just don’t see it being as “easy” as many other fans believe.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

If LSU, Michigan, and OU each have one loss, who plays for the NC?

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

LSU (of freaking course), and OU.

Because the Big 12 and SEC are percieved to be stronger than the Big 10, barring a huge OOC win on Michigan’s resume.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on schedule

LSU is a given because they will have to beat Bama and UF. But the other two depend on their schedule. For OU UT will be a big win and if OK State is a good team and they lay a good team from the Big 12 North they get in. If OK State falls down and OU plays a patsy from the North, while Michigan beats OSU, Penn State and if Iowa is a quality win the Michigan goes.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just talking quality of schedule

We are so much better off than Michigan lol. I actually feel bad for RR. I think we have a much easier path than MIchigan because there is no Ohio State in our conference. Clemson and VT missed their chances.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The ACC is strong enough

Boise’s main problem is their whole conference is looked down upon. The ACC has been sending a fairly large number of teams to bowl games the last several years (with respectable, if inconsistent, showings). An undefeated FSU would be passed over only in rare circumstances (e.g., undefeated SEC team and undefeated USC/Texas/etc.). There aren’t three undefeated major-conference teams all that often.

The ACC is solid, not great – perfect for a team that wants to compete for the NC on an annual basis (now if we can just get to that point again…).

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

So if FSU goes undefeated in 2011...

And Boise is sitting there with us next to an undefeated SEC team (Bama) or BIg-12 team (Texas/OU), do you seriously it’s a no-brainer to put FSU in the championship game? Especially if FSU had beaten a rebuilding UF team, and Boise had beaten another Oregon?

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Um...

Well, UF would still have major street-cred (we were in preseason rankings WELL into this decade, based on the 90s). Then there is: UM, Clemson, UNC/VT/GT (1-2 of those teams), and in 2011 we get Oklahoma again. So, yeah – if BSU beats Oregon, and we have those victories under our belt (with the PR we’d be getting for our resurrection) – I think we go.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus

I’m not convinced UF will be “rebuilding.” They’ll have a SR QB in 2011. They are continuing to stock up on recruits despite the Urban fiasco. They’ll have 1-2 losses max when they play us in 2011 (unless Urban drops dead on the sideline next season or in 2011… that could really tear them apart).

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I do

And even if the vote is close (I dont think Boise would be a runaway number 2), the computers like the ACC enough to drop Boise below us.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

YES

Wins over

UF
Miami
Clemson
UNC
BC
Oklahoma
and the ACC Champ

Yeah, no brainier. That’s 9 wins over teams going to a bowl. I’d have every writer in the country up in arms over that.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

That's with the current our current ACC schedule and a OU OOC game

What if our out-of-division opponent happens to be Duke instead of UNC? And we schedule “smarter” by dropping OU?

What if Boise wins a couple of big OOC games like they did Oregon this year and still runs the table?

For the record, I agree that we get in regardless, but I see it as VERY controversial.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Even an undefeated Auburn got passed up a few years back

There’s no guarantees, but as long as we take care of business we should be ok.

by FSUjab on Jan 12, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

This gets back to what I’ve been trying to say all along. Final rankings are more team oriented than conference oriented. The SEC was strong in 04, but people thought Oklahoma and USC were better before the season started, so Auburn never passed them.

Like I said, we’d probably be better off if the ACC actually got worse, or if only one or two teams got better. We spend a couple years dominating the conference and eventually we’d be a top 10 mainstay and things would take care of themselves. Outside of BCS v. Non-BCS, conference strength is more of a bragging issue than it is a voting issue.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

after Auburn got passed up

I think the SEC went into full throttle “we’re the toughest conference mode”…since then, we’ve seen SEC teams with 2 losses play for the MNC.

by jasonole59 on Jan 12, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Good point

But in MOST years, I think FSU would win out. And at this point, I’d take being left out once in a while… instead of being nowhere NEAR the conversation.

If we do get left out, we can always claim our own title! (Not much of a consolation, I agree… but more people would listen than when BSU gets left out).

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Boise needs to schedule games like Oregon at the end of the season IMO

I think even though they make it to the top 5 every year with that undefeated schedule, ending the year with a bunch of in conference patsies isn’t pushing them over the top anytime soon; that’s why ending the season with a win over UF is always a nice trump card IMO for us.

Unfortunately I think Boise St. is going to get into a title game in the next few years, I think the voters give them a shot to see if they really deserve it, just my IMO, shut em up so to speak hopefully.

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Mr Spetman, we've had this conversation.

FSU and Miami have the pedigree. They will get the pass. It won’t take them long to gain respect once we start winning.

Wake Forest does not get the pass over the other teams mentioned.

by jasonole59 on Jan 12, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing that needs to happen is the damn ACC needs to start winning their BCS games!

We’ve only won 2 in the 12 years it’s been around and not one at-large bid either; hell Boise St and Utah both have as many wins(2) as the whole ACC.

Winning those games is where we’ll get some respect.

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, no brainer. FSU gets to play for the NC.

Don’t forget bowls are about $$$. Who will pay to see Boise play for a NC?

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The BCS NC is #1 v. #2

Which is determined purely by voting. Money has nothing to do with who plays in the MNC, though it has a great deal of influence behind who fills the rest of the BCS games.

Unless you are saying that teams buy votes.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Right.

This year’s game was about 1 second away from Being Cincinnati versus Alabama.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Reporters (voters) work for a living too.

They go conservative and vote the best story. By conservative I mean, they tend to go with traditional power. How many losses did USC have while still in the top 10?
How many times over the past 4 years has an FSU team that has wound up 7-6 been put in the top 25 pre-season and during the season?
Reporters don’t like to be wrong, so they go with traditional powerhouse schools.
They also have to cover the game and their employers get paid from the game. What’s the game the press and the nation want to see? Boise v. Cinci or FSU v. Alabama?
There is money tied to reporting.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point

But the AP poll doesnt figure into the BCS.

I think the ESPNs of the world have some influence, but they are usually the ones with all the talking heads talking about what a travesty it is that teams like Boise don’t get a shot.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

You're saying Boise would go over us if we're both undefeated?

That’s crazy talk. Seriously. CINCINNATI (see: BCS Conference team) was going to go over BOTH TCU and Boise State if Texas lost to Nebraska.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

If they are the only undefeated, I think they may.

It would depend on how many 1-loss teams and who they are (their schedule that year, their conference strength that year, etc).

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

As it stands now

I don’t think an undefeated Boise would have a tougher schedule than ANY one loss BCS team. They would have to improve greatly.

by jasonole59 on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

ACC! ACC! ACC! ACC!

The Acc is a tough conf. Equally good teams top to bottom. Not some shit conf that espn loves where there are 2 or 3 elite teams dominating. I like the wheel of destiny. Makes for better competitive football.

by 3rdandManageable(VicVanBuren) on Jan 12, 2010 9:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Good mindset

We should just control what we can control.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

the ACC does not need to get better. The key to getting into the national championship game is pre-season rankings. Period. Texas sat at number 2 in week 1 and was at #2 in week 20. Alabama was at number 5 in week 1 and number 1 in week 20. Boise state started too far behind, they were 14 in week 1. Same with TCU, they were 17.

If FSU wants to play for a national title (or Boise or TCU for that matter) it starts and ends with the pre-season ranking.

Going undefeated without the high preseason ranking =/= National Championship game.
Going undefeated with the high preseason ranking = National Championship game.

by mhauer on Jan 12, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree we don't need #1 classes

But the point I was trying to make was UA was able to clean up on talent and infuse every position of need with top flight talent. We are about to have to take projects and maybe a reach or two at positions of need this year and that will affect us for 2-3 years.

5* kids riding the bench means a lot though. It means when 1s go against 2s in practice they are facing a higher level of talent every week. It means that if a guy twists an ankle you don’t have to scrap everything you were planning to do. It also means a lot to special team coverage because you have more athletes out there. That isn’t even bringing up spelling the starters. An argument could be made that UA won the NC based on depth at the RB position because of their 5* who comes off the bench.

FSU can build that with top 5-10 classes, but odds are it will take a bit longer. Even if we rack up on the DL like we are with DBs this year it would still take 2-3 years before they could truly be forces in a game.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think UF vs. FSU is as comparable to Ala vs. Aub.

Their are much more potential rectruits in Florida. We need to rub out Miami over the next two years if possible. I don’t think Jimbo will take long to prove himself either…he’s already well on his way.

Yeah, right!

by truecolors on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

On that note, I almost feel like we're going to waste one of the best offenses in the country next year

Not that EJ can’t be great the next year, but next year’s offense is going to be nasty, and could probably be in the NC hunt with even a top 50 Defense. I know this is has alluded to previously on here. It just makes me sad.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Sadly, I agree

but the 2011 defense could be very nasty and the 2011 offense

EJ
Fortson SR
Easterling SR
Reed SR
Datko SR
Spurlock SR
Orelus RsSo
Sanderson SR
Sanders SR
Reliford SR

will be plenty sick. Choose your stud running back. Also, that line will have 5 guys over 305lbs, so anyone worrying that we are too small up front will probably need something else to worry over.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it should still be good.

I think I’m just in love with Ponder’s intellect. I think EJ will be good, but I think Ponder’s understanding of the game puts him on another level that future offenses will be hard-pressed to touch. But you’re right, with a better defense, even a B+ offense should help us get the job done.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Matt Schaub

has been the QB i’ve been comparing him to.

by Sabon on Jan 12, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why

I’m praying the Texans draft Ponder when he goes… I think if we blow big leads next year like this one they will can Kubiak and we could go in a different direction

by FLAK8 on Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Schaub

This is OT, but how is it Schaub’s fault that Texans’ lost their leads? Sounds more like defense (your secondary was horrendous, and this is coming from a Jags fan) and a bipolar running game

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Rex Grossman is our back-up.... we are one sack away from G-Rex!

I think Ponder has potential to be an amazing NFL QB and who wouldn’t want their team to draft Ponder (besides teams with established QBs)? The Vikes are my NFC team and I would be de-light-ed for Ponder to head North, but he’s a Texan…

by FLAK8 on Jan 12, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

about Ponder – he’s awesome. But, Jimbo helped make JaMarcus Russell the #1 pick. I think he’ll get the most out of anyone he signs. We should have effective QB play in the future, even after Ponder and EJ.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I'm going to miss a Seminole

quite like I’ll miss CP7. Glad I’ll get to see him play on Sunday.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Best fit=colts

Hes just a little better than painter…

by Nole93 on Jan 12, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Minnesota

Farve gets to go out whenever he wants, plus he has McKinnie and Hutchinson (sp) on the left side of the line and AD at RB. Also has a variety of weapons at WR in Rice, Harvin and whoever they choose to keep among their current WRs and who they draft in 2010 and 2011. Sounds like a good fit to me.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

If Al Davis has the #1 pick in 2011, Ponder has a shot!

So does Bert Reed (assuming he can run the best 40 time)

by The K-Man on Jan 12, 2010 12:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I LOVE THIS

And was actually thinking of doing a fan post/shot on how the 2011 year will be completely on EJ – as you said on this post earlier (somewhere) – the defense in 2011 should be Sick. A siick D, w a returning amaaazzing upper classman offense, needs only 1 thing to take it to the NC – a great QB – will EJ be more grown up, will he have the whole playbook to play with…in my opinion, 2011 will be on the shoulders of the highly touted QB starting his first year…EJ !

It definitely is an excited story in the making

by LETSGONOLES on Jan 12, 2010 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

We'll have to hope EJ keeps developing

’cos that will be his first year of starting

by StM on Jan 12, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he'll get some PT next year

Any time we have a game in hand, I think Jimbo sticks EJ in to get some playing time. That may not be very often, but any extra game time will only help EJ.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Just one more point to that

If our D is anything like we expect it to be, our O will be that much better as well. What do you get with a great D? Great field position which means your O doesnt have to be as good because they have less yardage to gain to get in the endzone.

We will also be excellent on special teams at that point as well so again great field position.

by 21nole24 on Jan 12, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

And they did not have the best offense in their conference

by LETSGONOLES on Jan 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Think of the room we will have on the sidelines to welcome ex-players

instead of it being filled with Bobby’s B’ham Buddies. I got so tired of seeing those old goats standing theire thinking that FSU (Urbanic) couldnt find a way to get ex -players on the sideline but had no problem getting 20 of Bowdens cronies down there every game.

Everyday I think of more reasons to be excited about FSU football again.

by Egret on Jan 12, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Is this something Fisher will change?

Getting rid of some of the staff in charge of that, or influencing the AD to do so and bringing in more former players. There are no “ex-” players, imo. Once a Nole, always a Nole.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Unsure

but still, if a $1.5M employee wants to fire someone who is easily replaceable, I bet it gets done.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

If he is the reason we don't have a huge current and former NFL (and just former nonNFL player presence on campus), then he should be let go.

This is another area that we really need to increase. There aren’t many schools with the amount of NFL guys we have/had and we need to use them as much as possible.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.seminoles.com/genrel/urbanic_andy00.html

Andy Urbanic
   
 Position:
Associate Director of Athletics for Football Operations & Special Projects
….

Urbanic is directly responsible for all aspects of football operations, including team travel and home game operations. He also coordinates post-season logistics and travel for all Seminole teams and supervises the equipment, strength and conditioning and training room staffs.

….

by coonhound on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He is a good delegator

supervises the equipment, strength and conditioning and training room staffs.

Wasn’t that CTC’s main responsibility

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Can’t we just get Chip Baker to do this? Baseball and football are at different times. Give him a bigger staff and you’ll likely see immediate improvements.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Chip Baker is a baaaaaad man.

But I think maybe we should have someone more connected with the football program to help out. Nothing against Chip.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It is called rational discussion

Not Bowden family cheerleading

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

This seems to be the mantra

of those who spent the last decade defending Bobby and his staff of incompetents on the boards, ridiculing and shouting down any critics, until these apologists were finally mugged by reality. I don’t know if you’re one of them or not. But at some point, the benighted Bobby enablers sorta’ had top admit the truth to themselves, perhaps only as recent as in the last few months.

And now, rather than spending one more second than necessary admitting to themselves that they were absolutely, blindly and deliciously WRONG for a long time, these folks are shouting we should move on from the past!

Splendid idea, but unfortunately, Bobby and his buddies left us some serious lingering problems which must now be fixed. Identifying the problems is the first step to recovery. I applaud FSUn’s efforts to state the facts which will help enable us to “move one”.

"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy

by FiestaNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Love it.
And now, rather than spending one more second than necessary admitting to themselves that they were absolutely, blindly and deliciously WRONG for a long time, these folks are shouting we should move on from the past!

>-----:----:------>Spear 'em then Scalp 'em

by FrankDNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

They just miss Geno and his little pre-game quote gems to the press. Remember how all that swagger helped us in ’07, really close one against UFaG that year.

by GregJones on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

You kidding me...

Allen and Amato would have ruined him.

by AMFKNole on Jan 12, 2010 9:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Here's a story that probably only BBWC fans will know

LT (early in his career, I believe in Parcells 1st season as HC which was 1983) reacted to a play by going against the D scheme and when he went to the sidelines Parcells told him “that wasn’t the play” or something to that effect. LT explained how he just saw something and took it. On the next Defensive series, LT made the same play and when he went to the sidelines he told Parcells “better put that in the playbook”.

The moral of the story is that no coach could’ve ruined LT as he would’ve found ways to make plays, even if it meant going against what he was being taught (think Everette Brown in 2008 for us).

LT is the only player Parcells has ever had that he allowed to freelance b/c he was just that special.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

REally though

Would you ever expect Bobby to say, “We have tailed off quite a bit. My son was an idiot, my right hand man was an idiot, and I just dont bring it like I used to. We are more than even 4 players away, so let me continue what Im doing, hoping it will turn around.” It was way easier for him to say one player away, youknowit, and aww shucks the adoring media.

Final quote of the day:
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
That is what Bobby would have done, the same dumb crap over and over again, hoping it would lead us to the promised land.

by Miaminole on Jan 12, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

For Argument's sake

If you look at our losses (with the exception of UF), there were very few games that we lost by more than 10 points over the past few years despite our poor coaching and recruiting. How many games have we lost because of 1 or 2 plays that went horribly wrong?
We could’ve beat BC this year if G5 had intercepted that ball thrown right at him in the 4th, Fortson’s dropped pass against UM, we would’ve beat GT last year if Sims didn’t fumble at the 1. I’m not arguing that Bowden would have closed that gap, but, even with all the crap going on, we were still in it with most games. Was that a result of “being lucky” in process-oriented terms? Possibly. Nevertheless, we have rarely been in games where we weren’t competitive(read: not blown out) and it will be interesting to see how many of those close games go our way in the future. I am optimistic.

by FLAK8 on Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Moot

Outside of FCS schools, we also won very few games by more than 10 pts.

Systems at other schools (Wake, BC et al.) were successful enough to account for the talent gap with FSU, which was so frustrating for noles knowing we should have had more talent to win. (for further examples on success of systems vs. overall talent see also: Bowden, Jeff; Rainbow Offense).

Process will account for the talent gap that we’ve had with other schools, and we will begin winning games by more points bc players will buy into the system that we now have in place. Thank God I will never have to worry about losing to Wake Forest four years in a row.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

We were 10 playas away

A new coaching staff. Bobby it wasn’t parity

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Really nice job on the write-up

I was looking forward to this after the Offensive review. It really does highlight just how bad things had gotten before Jimbo. I’m glad we’ve at least improved our recruiting the last few years and this year seems even brighter. We do seem set to really start rolling in 2-3 years.

At this point, when considering next season, I’m putting all of my hope and faith into Vic/Stoops transforming the current D in the off-season.

by GregJones on Jan 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST reply actions  

Great analysis as always FSUn

I am also disgusted when I watch our defense, especially considering the type of defenses I watched when I was a student from 1994-1998. It’s painful but good therapy to read just how poorly our program was run and far it has fallen. Like others have said, looking at that 2007 class again, it’s no wonder we were even able to win games. That looks more like a class for Tulane or FIU than it does Florida State. What a bright future we now have.

by phinole on Jan 12, 2010 9:06 AM EST reply actions  

Really good info.

I don’t remember Terrance Parks being on the field at all. I remember him being recruited and thinking he was a real talent. Is he good enough to stay or are we that thin at safety?

by Jbeau on Jan 12, 2010 9:08 AM EST reply actions  

I think Parks

will be fine. I think he played CB in high school but we moved him to safety due to depth concerns.

by mantanga on Jan 12, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Parks was a stud coming in....

he hasnt done much yet but hopefully this next year he steps up to the plate. Harley and Parks at safety sounds sweet. the depth behind them is a little scary.

by fsudude on Jan 12, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Terrell made some comments linked in another article

That suggests Bright and, I think, Demps, may be very good

by Trus1te on Jan 12, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone have a preference of Telvin vs. Terrell?

Personally I was far more impressed with Telvin Smith’s film, but that’s me. I hope he pans out like I think he will

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Kearse

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Jan 12, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Funny for several reasons

New a guy being recruited by UF back when Kearse was on the team. Coaches take him in the locker room after the game to meet Kearse who is walking around with no towel after taking a shower. Dude is still scarred to this day. He should have looked in his eyes lol.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Lawrence Timmons

versatile to the max and excels in all situations. More so in the NFL than at FSU, but even here he was a beast.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

How is Halrey's health?

Is he finally going to be good to goor does he have some chronic ailments that will dog him while he is here?

by Egret on Jan 12, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

FSUn

Once again your analysis is amazingly accurate! I’m really shocked at the 2007 class and that 50% are gone and very few of the others are starters. Simply amazing. We are in far wrose shape then teams like Bama or FU whne their respective new coaches came in. I say everybody should give Fisher minimum two years to see the needed depth and probably 3 to 4 to start being dominant again.

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Jan 12, 2010 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

Question FSUn?

Don’t you think it’s very likely Moddy moves to LB? He’s already a beast of a man and Vic will probably put another 10 punds on him. He was projected to be a LB coming out of high school too. But he moves very well for hsi size when you look at his game film so strong safety will work if he stays at his current weight. What’s your opinion?

by FEARTHESPEAR! on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I know it wasn't to me

but I think it highly likely that Moody ends up at LB. Though ultimately, it becomes a case of getting the best 11 on the field. If Moody would start in the secondary but back up at linebacker, he needs to be at safety.

by Wild@Heart Nole on Jan 12, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it could happen

but for me to say it is very likely would just be guessing. The more I guess without any real insight into the situation, the more I leave myself open to be wrong.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's not forget that Moody saw some pretty significant PT this year.

I don’t know about you guys, but I would very much like to maximize his experience at safety until we find a suitable replacement.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I want someone

who will check the coverage into the proper adjustment and play his proper angles. If that’s Justin Bright, fine. But we have to have proper process here. If Moody continues to perform poorly in his coverage tests (they quiz the kids on this stuff to see if they know the proper checks), he cannot play safety.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

FSUn

A good, fair analysis. How long will the learning curve of the D players be to learn and effectively apply the new D schemes?

The Fisher era has begun!

by TLHWG on Jan 12, 2010 9:13 AM EST reply actions  

Obvious I’m not FSUn but I would say that depends on a lot of variables. I still haven’t heard what kind of scheme we are going to run. I’m certain there will be more zone but will we try and run a primary 3-4 or 4-3? It also depends on how Stoops wants to make that change. Do you make it all at once and flood your players with information or do you keep the scheme relatively the same and change it subtly each and every week.

How quickly do the players get into the shape you want them in? We can’t run a 3-4 now because we don’t have the size up front but we might be able to in a few years when the players go through the proper lifting and dietary programs. Also, we’re likely to be playing a lot of younger or inexperienced players on D.

I would say we will need at least 2 offseasons for the defense to start resembling a competent one. I would say it’ll get better this season (hard not to) but I wouldn’t expect a huge jump.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Excellent answer

We’re gonna be a 4-3 team under stoops, but I would not be surprised to see multiple fronts. The two off-seasons comment is spot on.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it will be slower than most expect

While defense comes along faster than offense, we might have a problem. I’ve been thinking about this a lot. If we had good depth, I’d expect the latter part of the year to be where we see big improvement, but since we do not, we will have to fight attrition as well as our opponent. I don’t think we win that battle.

But I think the 2011 defense will be dominant.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Predicition for next year

Does that include thinking about the horrible offenses we might face next season? How many ACC fields could drive down the field if our guys learn to tackle? If we just get our defensive YPP down to around 5 that could be worth 2 wins in the ACC IMO.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

it depends on when we play Miami, BC (should be a lot better), etc. But yes, next year sets up well because the conference is taking a big step back on offense— except for FSU :)

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes it does.

My pants got a little shorter when I saw that Dwyer, Morgan, and Thomas were all declaring for the draft.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

And Burnett

Unfortunately, they probably won’t beat Clemson this year and that’s a loss we could use

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Clemson

I’m hoping both their QB and Russell for NC State get drafted and take off for MLB.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be awesome

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

NC State has a capable 2nd QB in Glennon IMO

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

did you cut them?

2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.

by nolewhacker on Jan 12, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

any word on the progress of CP?

How has he been feeling? Hopefully no setbacks so that he can start without a hitch once practices start back up.

by Miaminole on Jan 12, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's hope Bradham stays for 2011 in order for the below statement to be true
But I think the 2011 defense will be dominant.

I don’t think we can be dominant without him in 2011. I’m very worried that he leaves for the 2011 NFL draft as I think he’s got a chance to be a mid 1st round pick ala Timmons.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Jimbo hired early January 2007

Meaning he had less than 1 month to work on the 2007 recruiting class. Even given that short time period, I know for sure he landed at least Taiwan Easterling. You could argue that besides Rodney Hudson, Easterling (or Reed) is the best player to come out of that class. For Jimbo to land him in less than a month (and it really was a last-minute signing on NSD if I remember correctly), really is a credit to his recruiting abilities and the lack thereof of the prior regime.

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 9:13 AM EST reply actions  

Pinto

I mentioned that down below before I had read this. You are exactly right. Imagine how many more sacks the quarterbacks would have taken and how the running game would have been even more lackluster without Hudson alone.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Rice is very promising

Lol. Love the writeup FSUn

"You play to WIN the GAME"

by fsugrizz on Jan 12, 2010 9:19 AM EST reply actions  

Great Work

Wow. Amazing. How you handle law school and this is beyond me. And Bernard Brinson, thanks for the reminder….

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Jenijie is probably a lock. Many uninformed casual observers don’t think he is a good player, but their evaluation is just wrong according to everyone I trust. He played very well in one coverage, which FSU will run a lot more often next season

Hate to make my first post a correction and look like a jerk…. but I think you meant “zone” coverage. I am pretty sure everyone probably knew what you meant, but I wanted to point that out because I agree completely with this assesment. I think he has a lot of potential and will excel in zone coverage. It’s awfully hard to play well in one-on-one coverage every play (Mickey’s defense) when there isn’t any pressure on the QB from the line. No corner looks good in that situation.

PS – I love these roster analysis articles. So much insight. Love the site.

by BostonNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I always appreciate the help

Seriously. I typically bang these out after I finish studying and do make mistakes. I wish MORE people would help me out with this stuff, because sometimes I look back and think “damn, that typo made a pretty good piece look unprofessional.”

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Don’t worry, all the typos in the world isn’t going to take away from this content. Not sure how you balance law school and this primo site, but thanks. I will be sticking around for sure. Let the clam chowder, lobster, Sam Adams, green monster jokes begin!

by BostonNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Clam chowder and lobster are no laughing matter

except when you try to order those from a Red Lobster, in the desert— as I did the other day. I am aching for some good seafood. I wonder how scorpions taste?

"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy

by FiestaNole on Jan 12, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Sam Adams is no joke.

And my refrigerator agrees.

I went up to the BC game this year, and estimate I drank 2 gallons of Octoberfest during the 3 day vacay.
And I’m not a big drinker.

by The K-Man on Jan 12, 2010 12:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Be glad to beta for you sometimes

but please realize that would be the blind leading the blind. :)

"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy

by FiestaNole on Jan 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't the Fisher "team" pull in the most of the productive recruits from the 2007 class?

As mentioned, Easterling was one but I think Bert Reed was flipped from Florida and, of course, Trickett got Hudson and I’m pretty sure he ran off a 5* named Little (who was at FAMU last count) and acquired Greenlee who, other than injuries, would probably be pretty good. Definitely a much better candidate than Little.

by NoleSince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

If you take those guys off the roster

then Shawn Powell and Kendall Smith become your best players of the class.

by coonhound on Jan 12, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

And, relative to statement about M. Harris, I believe Toshmon Stevens was Amato's other recruit.

Harriss’ was SoFla Guru Chuck Amato’s only South Florida recruit in his three year stint back with FSU.

Not trying to nitpick, but I know you strive for accuracy in these articles.

Should have mentioned first — another great write-up! I feel a lot better about our DL. Some freshmen will take their lumps next season, but short of serious injury to the Mc’s (‘Cray, ’Daniel, ’Cloud, or ’Callister), I think we’ll be serviceable up the middle. Throw in some Deas as a late Christmas present (a guy can hope, can’t he?) and it might be a strength!!!

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Y'all may be right.

Went to Seminoles.com roster and saw this:

2008: Played in the first three games of the season…recorded tackles versus Western Carolina and Chattanooga…first career sack came in his second-ever collegiate game versus the Mocs…tallied his first career tackle in his first game as a Seminole versus the Catamounts…defensive end moved inside to help but should move back outside for 2009.

Maybe he got that 3/4 game injury bug, after our academic suspensions had run out, and got a medical hardship.

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Great Article

Yesterday and today’s articles are the best I have read on the state of the team in a long, long time. Well done!

by NoleBetterTeam on Jan 12, 2010 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

NO and NO

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Aside from helping baseball, maybe basketball, the only positive for this that I can see...

….is that it might put us in better shape for some of the truly elite athletes out there in the future. Whether these two have any success or not is irrelevant, so long as we demonstrate that we’ve given some guys a shot at it.

Not so concerned about Easterling, don’t think it will affect him too much…. and even though he may be our most “clutch” possession receiver, we’re deep at the position. McDaniel hurts a lot though. That guy needs to live in the cafeteria + weight room.

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

For McDaniel to be effective shape for the football field he will not be in optimal baseball shape. I doubt Jimbo would allow this anyways, he is here on a football scholarship not baseball. I also doubt that Martin would want to play him either.

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I see no positives

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

It's certainly a big risk for an uncertain return.

Julius Peppers managed to do pretty well as a dual-sport DL. I think it’s just another carrot we can throw in front of a recruit to give us more consideration. We need every advantage we can get. Most athletes will decide that it is too demanding and give it up, anyway.

SWFL, do you know if there are any (serious) two-sport athletes that we are after for next year? Perhaps Fisher is setting this up for someone like Lemay (have no idea if he is a baseball player, too)?

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Julius Peppers has freak genes

Lots of kids play multiple sports. Andre Davis from Tampa is a big baseball guy too. Gotta know where their bread is buttered though.

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I almost noted that difference between McDaniel v. Peppers.

Although I think McDaniel does have some genetic giftings of his own (hence this even being a discussion), he is going to have to turn his muscle into uranium to get the weight he needs with his limited frame.

About bread/butter, that is why I qualified with the “serious” note… and I also think this is where we can assume Fisher isn’t simply allowing this to happen without consideration for cost/benefit. Perhaps this will serve as the “ace in the hole” for a certain someone down the road.. maybe even this year?

by arrdub on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

other than Track

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Jacobbi

I think you guys are seriously underestimating jacobbi as a baseball player. I am in no way saying here that he is not best suited for football, but he’s a hell of a baseball player. I play baseball at Lincoln in Tallahassee, in the two games we played against Madison he hit 4 homeruns, one that went over 400 feet. He also is surprisingly agile at 3rd, where he threw out our leadoff hitter on a bunt where he had to field the ball bare handed. He’s an athlete, there was plenty of talk of him being drafted but he pretty much told all the teams he wouldn’t sign. His future is in football but he’s no scrub on the baseball field

by FSUFEARTHISSSPEAR on Jan 12, 2010 6:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

He dominated High School

And would be serviceable in the college but he doesn’t project well past that, which is the reason he didn’t receive the money he wanted. I actually think it is comical the amount of money he was looking for.

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

plz dont make the team

365 days, until I change my ways.

by SWFLNole. on Jan 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand the reasoning

But some of our best players have been two-sport athletes: Deion Sanders and Charlie Ward, for example. Plus, if it helps lure in new recruits it’s probably worth the investment.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Easterling- fine. McDaniel- HELL NO

Big guys should not be allowed to play baseball because they lose the all important bulk.

I hope Meat doesn’t let Jacobbi play. McDaniel is paid to play football. Not baseball.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t expect either of them to see the field much. Jimbo told Richardson he had to either be a starter or consistent contributor to stay on the football team. The current baseball team is too stacked for either of them to be that IMO. The team needs pitching help and neither will be able to provide that.

I fully expect them to attend most, if not all, workouts once football rolls around. 11 does not tend to play backups in meaningful time unless he has to, which is one reason we haven’t won a NC yet in baseball.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Basebal team could without a doubt use a good right fielder.

If Easterling were able to be a solid starter there, great. If he’s just a bench guy, why even bother with baseball, imo. And McDaniel should know better.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh, I think we’ll have enough good players coming in where we’ll be able to fill those spots. Meat does a very good job at the plate and our RFs seem to always do a great job of playing the ball off the screen, which would point to good coaching. Point being that I don’t think Easterling would be a significant upgrade over the players we currently have. Then again I haven’t seen him play so I could be way off here.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Both

They must take care of his football responsibilities first and in full. Then he can play baseball if they want, and if they contribute. Fisher has a very good relationship with the baseball program and I think they will have to have a real shot to contribute to be allowed to play.

It’s important that we keep promises to our players and we did promise Easterling and McDaniel that they could play baseball.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to add to FSUn, Fisher has been spotted at the games in the past.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said,

Most will give it a shot and bail because it’s too much. But they won’t have a grudge against the staff, and the staff can use to demonstrate faithfulness to recruits, moms, and dads. Parameters outlined above are perfect. Football fully, and baseball if you can squeeze it in.

by arrdub on Jan 13, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d still be surprised to see them make any significant impact on the team and be starters for football.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Same here

My hope is that Vic works them to death that baseball will be a mere afterthought

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"

by FSUvaFan on Jan 12, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Our RF will be Danesh, no?

If so, there is definitely room for improvement. Holt in CF. McGee in LF. We need someone better than Danesh in RF. Maybe Ramsey or Jackson are better (but both are younger and I honestly doubt will get a shot at the position unless Danesh is absolutely horrendous to start the year). I’m not saying Easterling is in prime baseball shape to contribute, but if he is, he should be in RF.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm having nasty flashbacks of Joe Mauer

Easterling will most likely play pro baseball someday (he was drafted so high by the Marlins out of HS after all). McDaniel’s future is in football.

by basaltrock on Jan 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Draft position in baseball isn’t neccessarily the best indicator of how good a player is. Not all of the kids that are drafted have the ability or desire to go to college and play ball, especially at two sports. The fact that Easterling is good enough in football to play at a major D-I school means that he’d likely need to be shown a bit more love to sign with the Marlins.

Also, baseball teams draft largely on raw talent as they have time to develop the players in the minors. FSU will not have that opportunity with Easterling and McDaniel.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

see D'vontrey Richardson

Also, baseball teams draft largely on raw talent as they have time to develop the players in the minors. FSU will not have that opportunity with Easterling and McDaniel.

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Easterling Fine

Ya that kid is going to make his living on a baseball field someday so im with bud thats ok.

Big fella stick to football, you miss swinging the stick take it to the batting cages.

by 21nole24 on Jan 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You can’t really compare the experience of Sanders and Ward with the current generation. The circumstances around collegiate sports have completely changed.

by evenflow58 on Jan 12, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

let them play!

it won’t distract them from football…just hope they make it for matt drills and spring/summer workouts. The benefit of playing baseball for FSU is that they always seem to win…alot. That winning confidence and attitude may carry on to the football field.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

how?

it’s not like they’ll become full-time baseball players. It’ll keep them in check and in shape. If they have the talent to be multi-sport athletes, let them do it. It might work as a recruiting tool. There’s so many two-sports athletes out there that might want to come to FSU and contribute to the football team.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

it’s not like they’ll become full-time baseball players.

Then what is he doing out there?

It’ll keep them in check and in shape.

He won’t be in shape playing DH, he will be half assing taking batting practice once a day. Vic Viloria will keep him in shape

If they have the talent to be multi-sport athletes, let them do it. It might work as a recruiting tool.

I want athletes who are focused on football

There’s so many two-sports athletes out there that might want to come to FSU and contribute to the football team.

Not 5* defensive tackles

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Jacobbi needs to be in the weight room

Isn’t as big of a deal for Taiwan, but Jacobbi needs to get stronger and add weight. He’s going to have to play huge for us next year. Losing 3-4 months of lifting and conditioning is NOT what Jacobbi needs.

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Please please elaborate

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Essentially

he will take care of his football responsibilities first and in full. Then he can play baseball if he wishes.

It’s important that we keep promises to our players and we did promise Easterling and McDaniel that they could play baseball.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Does Jimbo make promises like that moving forward?

I will remain a staunch opponent against them playing even though I have a feeling that they will see little playing time.

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Jacobbi

Its great that the school is supporting his wishes to play within their framework of rules (see Jimbo’s comments at PC on developing a support system), but its just a total shock that he wouldn’t want to play football. Baseball is such a risk averse sport when it comes to talent evaluation, not to mention paying your dues in the minors, and the outliers to performance.

Maybe this is just letting a young kid get this experimentation out of system, but football is the obvious choice long-term.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

He wants to do both

hopefully Martin doesn’t give him any playing time and he is too tired from working out. That way we “let him play”, and he still decides to be football only.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

If he's good enough to play in the Majors I'd play Baseball.

Especially as a Tackle. He might want to walk when he’s 52.

by willdabeast on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If he's good enough for baseball

Why isn’t he playing now? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett

by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 12, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

He was actually drafted in the last Amateur draft

Wasn’t offered enough money to walk away from football

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

there are so many freakish high school athletes out there that can play any two sports. Take a look at Seantrel Henderson! That guy is a beast and can play b-ball! I bet Fisher and Trickett would take him in a heartbeat if wanted to play two sports at FSU.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

our basketball team lacks big bodies….they seem a bit thin to me.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 13, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

errrr?

Do you want a team of Keith Traylors?

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I like looking back at how the 2007 guys were rated.

Just emphasizes that your three star, 5.5 types can end up your best. Having coaches who can evaluate and then guide talent is crucial. I think we have that now.

I really hope we look back and Erving and Onwukaife, and say WOW—those weren’t 4/5 star guys?

by Nole2005 on Jan 12, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

It might be worth mentioning

Of the players there from that class who can actually play football were brought in during a last minute rush by Fisher and Trickett.

Trickett at the last minute grabbed Greenlee, Ganguzza and Hudson who is an All American.

Easterling was someone out of Mississippi that Fisher knew about and Fisher grabbed Dawsey and told him to get in the car we are going to to Panama City to recruit Reed and steal him from Florida almost the minute he got there.

That is most of the ones on that list who can actually play this game of football. Trickett may have missed on Grosso but the man was desperate to find a lineman somewhere anywhere who could actually play.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

I was going to say this.

Those guys weren’t even being sniffed by the pre-Fisher/Trickett guys.

Chop it up Seminoles!

by horsepowernole on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Great job FSun!

It’s articles like this that make TN the best FSU site anywhere!

by FloridaStateJay on Jan 12, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

Seriously,

this is what I call “premium” content worth paying for. Well done.

by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jan 12, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

Very good write up!

As we all know, the defensive side of the ball is where our biggest problems are. Once we get our defense back, then FSU will be back IMO.

Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole

by ItaliaNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

Let it rest

Good info concerning the future, but enough of bashing on Bowden. If not for him, y’all wouldn’t have anything to gripe about. Granted he probably put too much trust in his assistants in recent years. A mistake – but let it go. If all of y’all are so talented, why aren’t you coaching? Simply, it’s easier and more fulfilling for you to write about the past – I guess it feeds your egos.

by semsam on Jan 12, 2010 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, any other coach could have done what Bowden did

Losing record v. UF and Miami. Look at all the other coaches who won championships coaching at Florida schools.

We’re not here to assign blame. We’re here to analyze the situation.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of any other coach

If Bowden would have stepped down after the last NC and handed it over to Richt… do you think we would be in a similar place that we are now?

by TimScribble on Jan 12, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

I don’t think Mark Richt is a great coach, just a good coach. So I am not sure. I doubt we’d be as down as we are, and we could have probably fired Mark easier than Bobby.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree that he isnt a great coach.

I read somewhere, might have been here, about a philosophy that he and Bowden both had. Something along the lines of get the best players and turn em loose instead of really coaching them up.

So I figured we would still be getting crushed by Fl, etc. But maybe just not as down in recruits in those years.

by TimScribble on Jan 12, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

here's a thought

If Jimbo is our so-called savior coach and does indeed put FSU back in the national spotlight, the NFL will come calling and he WILL leave. Who’s the next coach then? I’m sure Richt will be a top candidate. Unless Shannon is no longer with the ’Canes, Richt goes back to his home (leaving UGA). Richt did an awesome job for us as an OC and I would prefer he be the next HC at FSU. OR one of the Bowden brothers not named Jeff!

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Just my opinion

But I don’t see Jimbo as an NFL coach

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he would want to leave the FSU job after he turns the program around.

It would be a pretty cush job once we start winning and the recruiting comes easier. He waited several years to land this job.

I don’t think he’ll want to pull a Spurrier. Man, that worked out awful.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Jacksonville in a couple of years will come calling if Jimbo is successful. Spurrier and Saban did it. Even if those didn’t work out, the competitor in him will make him want to prove he can coach at the highest level.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

No different than wishing well a coordinator that gets an HC job somewhere else or

a position coach that gets a coordinator job somewhere else.

And realistically, I see Jimbo as a 10 year+ guy. He wont last 10 years if he isn’t successful. But if he lasts 10 years the NFL may come calling. He would be in his mid 50’s then, and may try his hand in the NFL before he gets too old. If he chooses to turn down the offers, I could see him at FSU until his mid/late 60’s (assuming he wins).

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I would be happy for him…yes, it would mean FSU is back…but the bigger question is how will that success be upheld and who will be able to coach and continue.

It’s a cycle with HCs and OCs/DCs in college and the NFL. The more success you have in your program, the quicker it is to tumble back down. Look at our program…we were on top for soo long that the only way other teams could bring us down was to hire away our coaches. Once that happened, it was a gradual decline. Same will hold true for UF…Meyer will not be as successful because of all the coaches that are being taken away from him. USC is going to follow now that Carrol is gone and bringing his staff with him to Seattle.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Not saying Jimbo couldn't coach in the NFL

Just saying I think his heart is in college

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I definitely think Fisher would do well in the NFL

He’s not one of these college-only scheme guys and I think he’d prefer to work with more mature players.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

evey coach wants to compete at the highest level…he’s young and can coach. The NFL will come calling if he’s successful…there’s no question about it. If Urban Meyer didn’t have health issues, he’d probably be contacted by an NFL team next year.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The other issue with Urban

is that his offense relies on having a $75M QB run around. Organizations won’t allow that.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the NFL is evolving with having QBs be in the Vick/Tebow/Pat White/Vince Young type. Look at all the teams employing the “wildcat” formation. I don’t think owners will pay them those salaries, but you can see the game changing with these QBs at the helm.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

yep….they’ll need to carry 3-4 QBs instead of 2-3…and will require them to be in the “athlete” mode. Only a few teams will stay with the pocket-passer. That is why CP5 will be a hot commodity come next year’s draft.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean CP7

I think this wildcat thing is a fad. Defenses will adjust to it. Also, I’ll take the Marino, Montana, Farve guys any day over a Vick/Tebow/Pat White/Vince Young type guy. Pro QBs get injured too often to put quality backups into that kind of system.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

agree with this.

you can’t cite one player who is barely in the league anymore, one player who hasn’t even been drafted, a back QB to chad henne, and a head case who has had three “successful” seasons and make a strong argument about the switch to this kind of player.

2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.

by nolewhacker on Jan 12, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

my bad…CP7…next year’s Heisman candidate

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends what you call a fad.

I think nearly all NFL teams will use some form of wildcat in the next couple years. It gives all offenses that use it an advantage numbers-wise over the defense when it’s run. Do I think anyone will run it as a base offense? Probably not.

But I think it will be run in some form by the majority of NFL teams at least some point in the next decade.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't think so.

how many teams still in the playoffs run a wildcat formation or have their QB run around. you only do it if you don’t have QB who can read defenses and adjust the play and then get the ball to an open receiver. I don’t think you’ll ever see an NFL team win a super bowl with a “running” QB. Too much speed up there.

2010 Seminoles. National Champions in my heart.

by nolewhacker on Jan 12, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Sarcasm?
Richt did an awesome job for us as an OC and I would prefer he be the next HC at FSU. OR one of the Bowden brothers not named Jeff!

I don’t mean this as an insult, just not sure if it’s sarcasm. If it is, well done sir, I laughed hard. If not, well lemme know.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope that is sarcastic...

Though I do know a some people that still want another Bowden to take over at some point.

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry I should have re-read my post before I posted...

I’m completely not one of those people that want a Bowden coaching here again.

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

See, if a Bowden were a DYNAMITE coach somewhere else

that was near/at the top of the CFB world, I would have no problem with hiring him if he/we knew he had to meet a certain level of expectations and not just ride on his “name” alone.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Just look at the gap between Richt and Jeff….we had a Top-5 offense with Richt. Terry Bowden led Auburn to an undefeated season. Tommy wasn’t given a fair shake at Clemson. Both were awesome recruiters. If Fisher goes, why not take one of the three mentioned?

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

here's a bold prediction

Fisher will be gone in 5-6 years tops. If he loses a lot of games, he’s gone in 2-3 years. If successful, we’ll lose him to the NFL. That’s the way I’m looking at it. Who will FSU look at to come in?

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill

by EddieWouldNole13 on Jan 12, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a Bowden

Probably not CMR either unless he turns it around in a BIG way

>>---l>

by DKfromVA on Jan 12, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You DON'T want Fisher for more than 10 years?

I hate complacency as well, and who knows what the future holds, but stability and consistency at HC are what dynasties are built on. Why would you not want him more than 10 years. I understand your point that he would be picked off by an NFL team if we have success, and I wouldn’t blame him for going, but I would be ecstatic if he had that success and stayed for 15-20.

Obviously we don’t want a repeat of the lost decade, but we as a school have hopefully learned from the mistakes and I don’t think having him as a coach for an extended period of time would be bad as long as we are winning.

by FLAK8 on Jan 12, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

What constitutes a great run?

Finishing every season ranked (9 out of 10 might be more “realistic”) with a few top 5’s sprinkled in and at least one national title?

I would have to really think about coaches that fit that bill and lasted 10+ years. Meyer, Carroll, Sweater Vest all have had great runs but for less than 10 years at those schools. Stoops has done well. Mack Brown also. That’s all I’ve got off the top of my head. Paterno did do it before the bottom fell out in the early/mid 2000’s. And obviously Bobby prior to getting “complacent”.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Paterno, Brown, Stoops.

Richt is at 9 at UGA. Kirk Ferentz. Tedford at 8. Vandy’s Bobby Johnson’s at 8. Schiano’s at 9. UConn’s Edsall is at 11. Gary Patterson’s at 9.

Can’t think of many coaches with over 5 years tenure at their current school, let alone 10+.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Tressel is entering his 10th at OSU also

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 13, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

That's sweater vest's name. Couldn't remember.

And I thought it was a lot shorter than that, but you’re right. Time flies.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not...

…just promote from within? We have a young, competent staff in place now. If everything goes as planned, and Coley shows his salt as an OC, I wouldn’t have a problem with him taking over…or a Hudson, or a Stoops,etc…

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

I was just thinking in terms of continuity if the program is headed in the right direction. If its not, I’m all for bringing in someone else to do that job.

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be awful.

Terry is at UNA, not a D1 school and pulled the same crap BB did by hiring Jeffy for OC. We do not want to repeat that history.
Tommy did nothing special except beat his papa a few times.
If Richt starts winning the SEC, then I can get on board with that. Until then, I think we could do better.
I expect it will be more than 10 years before we have to hire another HC, so we should look at what’s out there at that time.

by NoleLaw on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Obsolete and fired

they all come from this Bowden coaching tree.

  • Recruit well
  • Fundraise well
  • Produce players and teams who lack mental toughness
  • Have a career losing record against your rivals
  • Don’t force players to attend voluntary activities.

They coach the “right way” but that doesn’t get it done any more.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness...

I believe he had a winning record against the rivals before 2001. Granted it’s his whole career so he should be evaluated as such, but we gotta keep in mind that the Lost Decade was one giant snowball rolling downhill.

by AMFKNole on Jan 12, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Aside from Richt

none of those guys are even remotely qualified to be a head coach at a program like FSU. There’s a reason they can’t get jobs.

An undefeated season 15 years ago while cheating and landing Auburn on probation? Plus, Terry is 55 years old and in worse shape than Mark Mangino.

Tommy Bowden’s teams lack mental toughness because he doesn’t demand enough from his players.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Tommy didn't get a fair shake? Huh

9 1/2 years and he never won or played for an ACC title, even with FSU being in the crapper he couldn’t accomplish that feat, he was also 3-5 in bowl games. I guess anyone with the Bowden name deserves a lifetime contract…

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Wow!!!!...revisionist history....People HATED Richt when he was here.

He had more profanity thrown at him than anybody. It is just when he was gone and the Jeffrey experiment was in full effect that people were longing for “the good old days” of M Richt.

by Egret on Jan 12, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

    Judging by the way he drove one of the most prolific offensive attacks in college football history into the ground, by the way he squandered numerous future NFL Pro-Bowlers in his time in Tallahassee, by the way his offense regressed in each successive season, and by the way his complicity in his father’s attempt to turn Florida State into a family piggy bank through nepotism allowed UF the opportunity to rise to a level of unprecedented success… the answer is yes. And appropriately, he still does not have a division-1 head coaching position after his dishonorable discharge in late 2006.

We recently wrote about how Jimbo Fisher has finally righted Florida State’s offense and has it again among the nation’s elite (top 5 or top 10, depending on how you measure). After that article ran, we were contacted and offered more data (pre-2004 conference only data was unavailable).

In 2001, Jeff Bowden took over for Mark Richt as Florida State’s offensive coordinator after Richt left to take the Georgia head coaching position. Jeff was handed the keys to one of the best offenses in college football history. The ‘Noles had appeared in three consecutive national championship games. They brought in insanely-talented recruiting class after recruiting class. Florida State players dominated NFL offenses. And Jeff Bowden couldn’t have done a worse job if he had intentionally sabotaged the program. Have a look:

In 2001, Jeff benefited from the residual teaching of Richt and the offense was the ACC’s best, though there was still a massive dropoff from the 2000 mark of 7.9 yards per play. He had a freshman quarterback in 2001, and some regression was understandable.

Most expected the offense to turn around the next year (2002). Instead, with a 2nd year starting quarterback, the offense plummeted. For the first time in years, FSU was more than a half yard per play off the conference’s pacesetter. In 2003, people expected FSU’s offense to really be back where it should be. People were predicting national championships. Instead, the offense continued to regress for the 3rd year in a row. Then in 2004, with no remaining starters who had played for Mark Richt, the offense became a nationwide joke. Florida State failed to gain even 5 yards per play, an egregious sin. And remember that in 2004, the ACC had yet to expand, so Florida State did not play excellent defensive teams like Virginia Tech and Boston College. Another year, and more regression. 2005 and 2006 followed, and the best offense in college football had been transformed into one of the worst major conference attacks in the country. Six consecutive years of regression. Yet Bobby Bowden would still have Jeff here if he had his way. Florida State fans look back and wish Bobby would have quit after the 2006 season, as he threatened to do after the booster$ persuaded Jeff to not take his contract renewal/ extension.

It didn’t have to be this way. The whole time Bobby Bowden said that Florida State was one player away. He said he knew what the problem was and that he would fix it. He was wrong. They were one person away, be that a competent offensive coordinator, or a disinterested party at head coach with the good sense not to hire someone he couldn’t fire.

It was one thing to betray Mickey Andrews after promising him the head coaching job, but to then slap Mickey in the face by hiring an incompetent family member be Andrews’ counterpart was disgraceful. Bowden will not end up with the major all-time records because he spent 20% of his career in Tallahassee pulling stunts that benefited his family at the expense of his FSU family.

After a lost decade, Florida State should have no second thoughts about jettisoning this "family member."

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I love and hate that graph...

"I am the way, the truth, and the life...no one gets to the Father but through Me"

by FSUvaFan on Jan 12, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure

He frequently mentions his time with Saban. Saban tried the NFL thing and ran back to the college ranks. Jimbo may well decide not to take that risk. And if he wins at FSU, he may just be happy to stick around for the long haul.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

Whether Richt is a great coach or not, consider what he has done at Georgia in the SEC. Now, move him a few miles south and west and place him in the ACC. He probably would have had us winning 9+ every year.

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Isn’t that where we were at? We have 93 and 99, but think of all those OTHER years (losses in the Big Game or to UM)… argh, SO close… ;-)

But I know what you mean about UGA (and our two NCs soothed other disappointments). I think FSU fans would be frustrated under Richt, but I also don’t think we’d be anywhere near our current level – although perhaps nowhere near our near future, either (if you know what I mean – I think Jimbo will build a championship program here).

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Richt would have won the ACC

He would not have had the same kind of teams to face in the ACC and would have had a distinct talent advantage. Also think he would have made better use of Carr, Booker, Jones etc leading us to wins against teams like Wake Forest. Doubt we would have won another NC but we would have won the ACC more and would probably be in a better position financially.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I do think we would have still lost to UF

But if Richt could have hired a great DC, better than the ones he had at UGA, maybe he could have won more than he did at UGA. I am sure Richt would have had more talent at FSU than at UGA.

Over all we would be better now if Richt took over then. I am sure he would have put in more work than Bowden, our offense would have been better than under Jeff Bowden, and then if Richt stopped beating UF and we fell behind he would have been easier to fire.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think "any" other coach coulda done it.

It did take a ton of “dadgummits” and convincing mama’s that sonny boy needed to don the Garnet and Gold. It took very high levels of charisma and self-control to create the image that Bobby did.

Some would’ve won more, some less. With that being said, I’m incredibly thankful for Coach Bowden, and the sting will wear off eventually.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I thank Bowden, too

For the great years he gave us. I am not one of those, however, who argue that Bowden IS FSU. All speculation has some opinion in it, but given FSU’s location in Florida, I think that another coach could have made FSU geat. There’s a reason so many teams try to recruit in Florida – the athletes. UF and UM have also risen to power in the same time period that Bowden built FSU. There were many factors in FSU’s rise, and while Bowden played a major part, I think that we would have (at some point: 1976? 1982? 1988?) hired someone who would have made a power out of us. Plus, look at what USF has done in, what, about 12 years? FSU would have become great without Bowden – we just wouldn’t have 14 years of Top 5 finishes (and for that I am very grateful).

by Invictus13 on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

No belittling what BB did by any means, but Miami won 5 titles with 4 different coaches from 83-2001 and I don’t think they were any better off prior to Schnellenberger arriving in 79 than what FSU was prior to BB arriving; I think too many people think FSU football started with the 73, 74, 75 seasons where we were really bad, don’t think Bill Peterson gets enough credit for laying some groundwork while he was here.

Hope I don’t get banned for that, Warchant would impound my car for such blasphemous comments.

by karmanole on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

To say that

Any other coach could have done what Bowden did is not analysis at all – its pure opinion. I am on the train of believing that Bowden and his crew were key contributors in the recent downfall of FSU; but a lot of people continue to beat a dead horse… I agree w the guy up top-stop bashin the man for no reason-if its for good reason to point out specific numbers, then OK, do so. But enough of the opinionated bashing

by LETSGONOLES on Jan 12, 2010 12:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It is pure opinion to say another coach could not have done what Bowden did also

But that is why we are all here, for opinions. I will give Bowden credit for hypnotizing a segment of the fan base to not notice 9 years of failure, a premium football program run into the dirt and act as a censor for the Bowden family on football forums.

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

What else can you do!

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I really don't like how dissenting opinions get you ganged up on on here.

This semsam guy could’ve worded his thoughts in a less instigative manner, but it’s not necessary for “authors” and regular posters alike to jump all over him. I’ve been insulted by multiple “authors” in the past couple weeks for simply having a differing opinion than them. It is a problem. With the increased traffic, the “mods” are turning more WC-like in their attitude.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It seems to me...

…that they welcome every type of opinion. Its just that they expect some factual basis if you are going to disagree with what they write. I’d do the same thing if I spend this much time crafting an argument.

The OP said the author spent too much time bashing Bowden, which may or may not be true. He finished it off with an insult about feeding egos. This was responded to by an author with a fact – Bowden had losing records against our rivals and added the educated guess that other coaches could have similarly capitalized on the situation.

Then other posters said they thought Bowden was better than other coaches, and gave reasons (recruiting, personality, etc.). Notice the authors let this be – seemingly welcoming that insightful thought.

I’ve never seen an author bash or dissuade fact-based arguments.

The OP treated the author as though he wrote this to bash Bowden. I don’t see that. I see an author explaining changes that need to be made and why we need to make them. If he didn’t write this now, he’d be writing it in 10 months when our defense is still getting gashed and everyone is up in arms about how Stoops didn’t get immediate results.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 12, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Well the two circumstances I'm talking about where I was insulted

were where I disagreed with two different authors’ opinions. The one I provided an example to show that what they said did not hold true always and the childish responses continued. The other apologized and deleted his comments and I have no ill-will towards the guy. We cleared it up.

But my point is it seems like the authors give you a hard time if you don’t agree with them. I think semsam would’ve been perfectly within his rights and the rules of this site if he would’ve just left off that last sentence of his. Even if he would have, I still think he would’ve received some backlash. And I do expect comments to sometimes get jumped on. I’ve done it to people and people have done it to me. It happens. I’m not an author, though, who, I would’ve thought, should show more restraint than the lay-folk.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

tricknole

The man who knows his stuff in depth and manages to make a stance when he can. I always appreciate your postings trick and to tell u the truth, I have actually noticed this from time to time – semsam being a good example ….“you r outguned, fail logic” (somthin like that)- that was a little harsh bud

by LETSGONOLES on Jan 12, 2010 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Come on man

Some of mine are not that bad, only when I get in hurry!

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

"Trusted his assistants too much"?

Is that the only problem you saw? Are you really that blinded by love?

Just amazing.

"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." Jack Handy

by FiestaNole on Jan 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Great Read….I know this D is 2 years away from being able to “win” games for FSU…depth size scheme etc….2010 FSU D will resemble 2007 UF D imo ( I know you guys hate the UF comparisons) alot of big plays given up because of the learning curve and other things going against us…But when the do put together some good complete games as I expect them to do because ACC offenses arent all that great you will remember this team is still very young on D and 2011 should be better as we continue to recruit well as I fully expect us to do

by Fredric on Jan 12, 2010 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

They are not that good but

VT and Clemson have a very good defense

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

2011

Should be a top 10-15 Defense with the recruiting and coaches.

Chop it up Seminoles!

by horsepowernole on Jan 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

And right on cue...

UNC cut it’s 5 players… http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/279840.html

 Former prized recruit Jamal Womble is one of five players leaving the North Carolina football program, a school spokesman confirmed Monday.

Womble, a four-star running back from Arizona, has decided to transfer as has receiver Rashad Mason. Tight end Randy White left the program, linebacker Hawatha Bell was dismissed, and tight end Vince Jacobs will graduate in May and leave the program.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 12:50 PM EST reply actions  

Dude, I'm convinced you knew about this before you wrote your piece on the offense....

then strategically chose to bring it to our attention this afternoon.

Cheeky bastard.

by Randall W. Spetman on Jan 12, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Well maybe ;)

but apparently I don’t know how to differentiate “its” from “it’s”

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy!

“Its” is possessive. If it is belonging to thing something “its” theres.

It’s is a contraction of ‘it has’ or ‘it is.’ “It’s” that easy!

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

corrections

minus the word ‘thing’ and change *theirs

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha

I just meant I was typing so fast it came out like that. I am pretty good about it’s/ its

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Just trying to help!

I have a degree in English, so I love helping when people want it :)

"Kill a fly with an axe"

by SteadfastNole on Jan 12, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Wonder what happened with bell

He went to school right down the road from me.

by Scalpemall on Jan 12, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Finalized Schedules?

Thanks for everything guys!
    I know that each school is different, but is there an e.t.a on when our schedule dates will be finalized. I notice that some schools have them already booked, and some partially, others not at all. Also, I saw the Hasselbeck comparison with Ponder above. I was thinking Aaron Rodgers (and yes, before Sunday’s game), What do you think?

by vegasnole on Jan 12, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Rodgers arm is really insane

Ponder has what would be considered an average arm among NFL starters. Rodgers, Jamarcus Russel, and Cutler are in a class of their own.

I love Christian and think he’s on a rare level right now, but physically he is not Rodgers.

by Bud Elliott on Jan 12, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Rodgers is better in everything

But he has had more time. Crazy how hard he is to sack. I don’t remember him doing that in college.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Where else do we get a true reflection of the chest?

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee168/omeganole/DIDDY2.jpg

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

I have a question for quite some time

Has anyone seen Secord throw the football? What is your opinion of his arm? Do you think Trickett is the better passer of the two?

" Fisher’s approach to building a winner is lifted from Saban’s playbook. Right down to the terminology such as becoming more "process oriented" as opposed to "results oriented."

" Nick and I are friends," he said. "That guy is one of the best football coaches I’ve ever been around. God knows he’s brilliant. … A lot of the things he believes are a lot of things I believe. We’re very similar!

The process begins!

by DocHoliday2 on Jan 12, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions  

With so few rising SRs on the roster

we’re in a real bind for the 2011 recruiting class. So a couple of the guys mentioned, even if not cut this year (and those who aren’t rising SRs already) will likely be cut prior to fall 2011 as we need the ships for recruiting.

Basically any underperforming JRs and SOs after the 2010 season better have a quick exit plan scheduled as I see a lot more cuts after next season than we are likely to see this year.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Yup.

Going to be 3rd-year-in-the-program guys need to make an impact in spring ball or they should be let go. Current 2nd-year-in-the-program guys have this upcoming season to demonstrate their worth. If someone is borderline, retain them on the basis of the spring ball last chance deal. And continue doing that each year.

by tricknole on Jan 12, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

incl. soccer devalued the entire post

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

That wasn't me

This was an IM exchange between me and Marmaduke1 today. I am a big fan of The Beautiful Game. He thinks soccer is for 8-year old girls. I got him back with the Cubs’ comments…

by Pinto on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

redeemed

:)

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 12, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Soccer

Is the worst sport invented. Bore-waitforityouwillbecausethereisnoscoringinsoccerIcan’tbelieveIsatherefor3hourstoseea0-0game-ring.

by Marmaduke1 on Jan 13, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Let me guess

you like baseball.

As I’ve been saying for almost 25 years now, baseball is the cure for insomnia.

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 13, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I like baseball

I’d rather watch a game live than on tv. Tv baseball does prompt good naps. But soccer is like hockey with all the fun & entertaining aspects removed.

by Marmaduke1 on Jan 13, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

...said the guy who doesn't understand the sport and just dislikes whatever Jim Rome tells him to...

I never understand this argument. Is a 0-0 or 1-0 pitchers duel boring or entertaining? What’s the difference between that and a low scoring soccer game? I played baseball for 10 years and I love to watch it, but it has to be the most boring sport to watch at times. Soccer is constant action and the passion that the fans and players have when its country vs. country is unmatched in any sport. Yes, even football. I will not argue this further.

by Pinto on Jan 13, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

What about curling?

I love that. No joke. Not quite sure what all’s going on, though.

by tricknole on Jan 13, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I love curling also, but what's not to understand

simple math

"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher

by RishiM on Jan 13, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

what is there to understand?

It is the same game whether it is Man U or my neighbors 8 yr old. Why isn’t it big in the usa again? Oh yeah, because the majority of us knows what sucks. Fans are passionate only so they don’t fall asleep during those snoozefest marathons. For someone that hates Jim Rome you sure know a lot about him.

by Marmaduke1 on Jan 13, 2010 11:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It's still better than the NBA

…and less people killing each other…

It’s not big in the USA b/c there are several other sports (professional and otherwise) to contend with. Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc. Kids in the UK or Spain don’t exactly grow up playing stickball in the streets or basketball at the playground. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world, that is a fact and can’t be argued. I love the whole American attitude of “well, its not the most popular sport here so I’m going to rip it. Soccer is dumb! Yeah! Let’s go have orange slices!”

I know Jim Rome dislikes soccer…that’s one thing…that’s knowing a lot about him? I do know one other thing. His shows are better when Jay Mohr or the Sklar Brothers co-host.

by Pinto on Jan 14, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Guest host I should say

Like Rome would ever let someone else share the spotlight with him…

by Pinto on Jan 14, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Soccer is dumb

Get me my juice box, juice box guy.

by Marmaduke1 on Jan 14, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Beautiful?

Do people really call it that?

by Marmaduke1 on Jan 13, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL!

“I think i just shat myself”

by Scalpemall on Jan 12, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey now...

Caddyshack 2 wasn’t that bad.

by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 13, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nor Karate Kid 3

Now KK4 is a whole other story

It's a beautiful day in Tallahassee

by RaysnNoles on Jan 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Great read again.

It is embarrassing how bad our recruiting has been when it comes to defensive players. Bowden and Amato should be ashamed of themselves.

by fsunole23 on Jan 12, 2010 4:40 PM EST reply actions  

So should we still actively be going after DBs in this class?

Looks like the only recruit listed under Stoops is Corey Cooper, a DB/S?

by jasonole59 on Jan 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

I'd think that most of our targets are in place at this point.

Stoops can say…“hey. you’re the only guy I wanted to come after”.

Also noticed that Hudson and Craig don’t show any recruits listed. Eliot has a TE out Tx, and Gran has a decent list (all out of South Florida). Posted the link on the Big Board, but was wondering if Gran is still pursuing the same players, or if it is his Tenn list?

http://floridastate.rivals.com/viewcoach.asp?Year=2010&Sport=1&Coach=271

by jasonole59 on Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Kiffin to USC

Calvin Smith and other recruits we should get on for sure.

by 21nole24 on Jan 12, 2010 8:34 PM EST reply actions  

Great news!

Kiffin can save their recruiting class and UFAG has been blasting all of them with calls

by westcoastnolefan on Jan 12, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's all take a second

and laugh our collective arses off over the trainwreck that USC is becoming, and the one Tennessee has been left as.

by ricobert1 on Jan 12, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

What kind of guy bolts after one year like that? And you know his dad is going with as, as would most of the staff, so their class is about to fall apart. Smith needs to come on down and become one of the good guys.

by osceolafan850 on Jan 12, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Other site has something about AJ Alexander

but I am not a subscriber so cannot read it. Maybe he will be transferring and it will free up a spot for someone else. He had natural ability coming out of high school though, so if he wants to stay and let Stoops mold him I have no problem with that either.

by nolestuff on Jan 13, 2010 5:10 PM EST reply actions  

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